bkerensa:) You guys looking forward to global jam?02:04
pleia2bkerensa: boo @ jam over labor day weekend :)04:45
pleia2they should know that I use 3 day weekends for adventuring!04:46
pleia2(actually considered going down to san diego but family trip is more important)04:46
* bkerensa pings pleia217:46
pleia2bkerensa: hey17:48
bkerensapleia2: do you think mailchimp through mailinglist would work?17:51
* pleia2 has never heard of mailchimp :\17:51
bkerensaGuess I could just build out a simple template17:56
pleia2I just write text announcements and then copy them into the new announcement for the next month/event/whatever17:57
pleia2no fancy stuff17:58
pleia2partially because I then cross-post them to other mailing lists, some of which are old school linux lists whose participants get cranky when you send them html emails :)17:58
bkerensa:P they must not like Unity either then :)18:00
* bkerensa doesnt even like Unity18:00
* pleia2 uses xubuntu18:02
bkerensaI had trouble with it18:03
bkerensacouldnt get it to work properly18:03
pleia2unity or xubuntu?18:03
bkerensathe network manager didnt like me18:03
pleia2oh :\18:03
bkerensathen I got it to work and for some reason wifi was epic slow?18:04
pleia2I'm using it on my desktop and netbook, never had a problem, but hardware can be cranky18:04
bkerensait wasnt my connection either18:04
bkerensalike 1,300Bps was fast on it18:04
rwwt xubuntu use the same network manager applet as ubuntu?18:04
pleia2I have a broadcom chip in my netbook, had to use the proprietary driver18:04
pleia2rww: yeah18:04
bkerensabut if I booted into LTS or Kubuntu no issue with speed18:04
bkerensaIm using a usb wifi dongle :)18:04
pleia2ah, I'm using xubuntu lts on my netbook18:04
pleia2(netbook travels with me and we do presentations together, don't want to run 6 month releases on it)18:05
bkerensaif I could sort out that speed issue I would have no problem using xubuntu... I like the lightweight18:05
rwwmy netbook's on oneiric because I don't really use it right now :P18:05
rwwdoesn't sound like the sort of thing that would be xubuntu's fault, to me :\18:05
bkerensaI tried oneircic18:08
bkerensaperhaps it was because I was running alpha?18:08
bkerensaI will spin xubuntu back up down the road and try it again :)18:08
rwwif you try the same (released) versions of Ubuntu and Xubuntu and one has the problem and one doesn't, I'd be surprised18:09
bkerensaUbuntu Community is going lose a big asset in the coming year or two when FreeGeek moves to another distro18:10
bkerensathey pump about 100 free desktop computers running Ubuntu into the community a month and their hardware wont run Unity18:10
pleia2unity 2d is being released with 11.10 so that should help a lot18:11
pleia2it just wasn't ready for 11.0418:11
bkerensaI dont even think Natty in Classic runs to good on their boxes18:11
bkerensauses to much resources18:11
bkerensathey still ship Heron18:11
pleia2hardy is EOL on the desktop :(18:12
MarkDudeWell puppy linux is compatible with Ubuntu repos18:12
bkerensaHopefully that will change though... One of my goals is to get them to modernize and move to newer release18:12
MarkDudeand runs on really old stuff18:12
bkerensaMarkDude: True18:12
bkerensaMarkDude: I was surprised they are using such a old release of Ubuntu18:13
bkerensaMarkDude: They dont really have a lot of "Ubuntu" gurus over their... I think the only reason they ship Ubuntu is because its user friendly and free18:13
bkerensaMarkDude: The people who do their classes is PLUG and they dont even push Ubuntu they use Fedora and SuSe18:14
MarkDudeWell Karmic puppy showed it could work well18:14
MarkDudeWell - silence is the better part of valor on my part there18:15
MarkDudejust Puppy has most Distros beat on how well it works18:15
MarkDudeas well as being able to have whole OS on CD18:15
bkerensayeah but its adoption is still not major according to distrowatch last time I checked18:15
MarkDudeso it can work even if HD dies18:15
MarkDudesheeple ?18:15
MarkDudeIt works18:15
MarkDudeand works well18:16
akkAll liveCDs can work if the HD dies, can't they?18:16
akkPuppy's big advantage is that they actually tune it for performance on non-modern hardware.18:16
MarkDudeAnd you can take yousfs file and burn cd that is made for just your hardware18:17
MarkDudeand just your setting- it is real easy18:17
akkAnd they have a really easy install/boot method with USB sticks even for old machines that don't boot from USB.18:17
akkI haven't seen any project that makes that easier than puppy does.18:17
akkOn hardware that's only 5 or so years old, though, I prefer a more modern distro with some performance tuning, like debian or arch.18:18
akkThen you can run more modern programs but still get a performance win over ubuntu.18:19
MarkDudeRuns super fast18:28
grantbowbrace for interns from Nairobi18:29
grantbowhello nelson18:30
grantbowwelcome to the Ubuntu US California channel18:30
grantbowhello Guest9525318:30
nelsonthank you everything is working18:30
=== Guest95253 is now known as maryann
=== nelson is now known as muya
=== maryann is now known as hary
MarkDudeHello peoples18:32
=== muya is now known as nelmo
=== hary is now known as wamani
=== nelmo is now known as muya
rwwDebian also tends to support some of the more esoteric architectures that Ubuntu and Arch don't, which is useful.18:33
muyahello markdude18:33
=== wamani is now known as maryann
=== maryann is now known as annmary
MarkDudehello muya, you will be one of the people keeping an eye on grantbow?18:34
grantbowakk, MarkDude, didn't mean to interrupt any conversation already taking place.18:35
=== annmary is now known as annmaryharry
rwwI always find that concern funny, 'cause I live in #ubuntu, land of a thousand simultaneous conversations :P18:35
grantbowMarkDude, Sept 7th they will be keeping me in line. My flight is early Sept 6th.18:35
annmaryharryhello markdude we are all here18:36
muyamarkdude ya i wiil keep an eye on grant18:37
annmaryharryhello grant is there a way in which one can delete an error from the pad18:37
MarkDudehello, keep an eye on him, he gets distracted18:38
grantbowunlike MarkDude18:38
pleia2MarkDude: you coming out to KIPP with us on sunday?18:38
=== muya is now known as cynthia
annmaryharry #dreamfish18:39
grantbowthey are learning IRC, sorry for any extra noise in this channel.18:41
MarkDudeSunday I have a bbq B-day party at Saras18:42
MarkDudegrantbow- we were just talking about how Puppy Linux runs well on old machines18:45
MarkDudeand that Free Geek may have to switch away from Ubuntu since it requires newer hardware18:45
=== cynthia is now known as shiku-nelson-sim
=== shiku-nelson-sim is now known as cynthsimnelshiku
akkI wish there were an ubuntu offshoot that cared about old performance and old hardware ... but I guess that's called debian. :)18:48
akk('cept it doesn't have the nice ubuntu community around it)18:48
MarkDudeAre you saying Debian is mean akk?18:59
* MarkDude kids18:59
akkNot usually mean, just less nice and less of a community than Ubuntu19:00
akkplus, the bug system is hopeless19:00
MarkDudeYes, nothing compares to Ubuntu's community19:01
MarkDudenothing yet at least19:01
rwwI'd be more inclined to call Ubuntu's bug situation hopeless, personally :P19:22
* grantbow reads log19:24
bkerensarww: Why do you feel this way?19:28
bkerensarww: I'm on Bug Team... I do see some issues myself but would love to see what other people think19:29
grantbowthat's a very cool offer19:31
grantbowUDS sessions are also a good way to better understand the people behind the bug system and ask questions19:33
akkThe bug situation is somewhat hopeless, in terms of filing bugs and expecting anyone to actually pay attention19:35
rwwbkerensa: I don't have a novel opinion on this topic, but in short, Ubuntu's lack of ownership of individual packages means that bug reports are often ignored completely or responded to by people with no expertise in the package or ability to fix the issue. That there are so many bugs coming in that people triaging use copy-paste responses and tend to set bugs Incomplete and eventually expire them, often without understanding the bug context, doesn't help19:35
akkbut at least ubuntu has a system where you can track that ... with debian, you file it into this email black hole and that's the last you'll ever hear of it.19:36
akkIn ubuntu you might get mail from other people who have found workarounds, or hear two years later than someone finally looked at the patch.19:37
bkerensarww: All valid and good points... Notably Ubuntu Bug Team guides triagers to do exactly that... I usually will ping a package developer if I know them and ask them to look into it19:37
pleia2akk: ah, the benefits of having a BTS that mortals can use :)19:38
philipballewits interesting with ubuntu how because of its popularity in the linux market, they get bugs irrelevant to ubuntu itself, but software available for it, then those developers have to be informed19:39
bkerensaimho Bug Team should have someone who is delegated the task of contacting individual package devs and following up on bugs and pushing for fixes19:39
pleia2philipballew: it happens in all distros, those bugs should be forwarded upstream19:39
bkerensapleia2: should be :)19:39
pleia2when I was doing more debian work we'd typically try to patch it and send the bug *and* the patch upstream19:40
rwwthe only time I've had a good experience with Ubuntu bug reporting is for packages that have someone specific who looks after them. Bryce for Xorg, for example.19:40
rwwif you report a bug against most of universe, it just sits there19:40
pleia2the server team has a policy of responding to bugs too19:41
akkSame here. Reporting printing bugs is rewarding, because Til Kampeter looks at them very soon and comments, or reassigns, or otherwise does something useful.19:41
akkThey might not get fixed right away, but having someone look, triage and set some flags makes a huge difference.19:41
rww(which now has me wondering about the wider question of how much support we can really give to random universe packages, and whether it'd be better to send their users upstream)19:42
philipballewI have a bug where my backlight wont work, yet a debian dev made a ppa to install and patch it. works great because it is specific, yet there is a bug where my laptop freezes when i close the lid for more then a few minutes sometimes. to generic to have any idea what to do somewhat19:42
rww(for both bug triage and support)19:42
akkSomething that would be useful: have each (non ubuntu core) package have an obvious link to its upstream bug system.19:42
pleia2rww: truly not much, there simply aren't enough people to handle the bugs19:43
akkI confess I often file bugs on X or GNU utils or whatever in ubuntu, because I know where the ubuntu bug system is19:43
rwwpleia2: right. and when someone wanders into #ubuntu with a question about some random science library that's synced from Debian and has never been touched by the hand of an @ubuntu.com...19:43
akkwhereas if I reported them upstream, it means spending 45 minutes finding the upstream bug system, registering in it, then realizing I have to download the source to the latest version and figure out how to build and install it before it's worth reporting anything.19:44
akkesp. with X or the kernel (sometimes I will with kernel, because I know how to build that, but I have great sympathy with anyone who doesn't)19:44
philipballewI think ubuntu users who can handle their way in linux more then most should let people know what computer their running and if a bug on that system is files they should be notified. ( I think that is somewhat in place)19:44
rwwI'd be interested in knowing if anyone else with the same computer system as me ever files a bug. The sheer improbability of it would be funny :P19:45
akkIf launchpad could offer some link like "If this isn't an ubuntu-specific bug, go [here] and report the bug on version X.Y.Z"19:45
akkit might save a lot of bug reports that don't really belong in ubuntu19:45
rwwakk: except then we irritate upstreams if there's an Ubuntu-specific bug. that's happened in the past, hence the "report to LP" encouragement19:46
philipballewi found a bug for 11.04 rww my laptop mic stopped after upgrade and all i did was add a line to my also sound confif but these people were still waiting for the update to occur and I felt bad for them as they were afraid to add a line in gedit19:46
rwwor, e.g. Tor, which was horribly out of date in Ubuntu's repositories for a few versions to the point that upstream proclaims on their website not to use repository packages even though they're now up to date. If someone reported a bug against that ancient Ubuntu version upstream, I imagine the reaction wouldn't have been great.19:47
philipballewit affected everybody with my exact model19:47
philipballewkismet is 4 years out of date currently19:47
philipballew^ no hope in sight and the kismet devs have a reporsity you need to add yourself to fix this problem. perhaps more help is needed to motu19:48
rwwIt's in universe and pulled from Debian. A quick look at the Debian side of things seems to suggest it may be orphaned there. Another case where improving Debian would improve Ubuntu :)19:50
philipballewwould ubuntu breaking away from debian help a little?19:51
rwwno. the packages need maintaining either way. best to stay close to Debian and not duplicate effort19:52
philipballewtrue, debian probably likes ubuntu for that somewhat? are we still binary compatible though?19:53
philipballewi think in some packages we are not19:54
rwwironically, the subset of Ubuntu's repositories that I use a lot (KDE) is maintained by the Kubuntu team and probably not pulling from Debian at all. but I justify this because Kubuntu seem to have a better relationship with upstream KDE :)19:54
rwwanyways, afk time19:54
philipballewttyl rww19:57
MarkDuderww so you are saying that KDE talks well with KDE? Kinda meta19:57
rwwMarkDude: no, I'm saying Kubuntu does.20:06
MarkDudeWell KDE is its own group sorta.20:08
MarkDudeMArk S sorta leaves them alone, from what I understand20:09
rwwthat a lot of Kubuntu folks are part of KDE reinforces my point :P20:09
MarkDudemakes sense there would be more dialog with them20:09
MarkDudeCool, I had never heard that put that way20:09
MarkDudeanyway- do your thing20:09
DarkwingDuckphilipballew: ping22:29
philipballewsup DarkwingDuck22:30
DarkwingDuckIs there 'net access as Pennera?22:30
philipballewthere is. free wifi with no time limit22:31
DarkwingDuckOkay, the other thing... what do we want to concentrate on at the jam?22:31
philipballewthats what I was wondering. you would probably know that better?22:32
DarkwingDuckWell, bugs are fun but, there is a learning curve.22:32
DarkwingDuckTesting is always good.22:32
DarkwingDuckand Upgradeing22:32
philipballewtrue, I can handle bugs if I need to. but not always needed. testing and upgrading might be easier for everyone22:33
* DarkwingDuck nods22:33
* DarkwingDuck ponders22:34
philipballewis there a list of things that need to be done somewhere?22:35
DarkwingDuckYeah, I can gather that.22:35
bkerensa:) Our jam is gonna be epic... Got custom Ubuntu Oregon Global Jam shorts ordered... Food & Beverage and hopefully some giveaways :D22:35
DarkwingDuckTwo links of intrest.22:36
crashsystemsanyone in here hear of http://convergence.io/ yet?22:36
DarkwingDuckI'll have Natty CDs and some leftover lanyards.22:36
DarkwingDuckphilipballew: Were you going to make a flyer?22:37
philipballewemail these links out with an email ill have natty cd's I have 8 server cd's still. yeah. I was gonna mod the Ubuntu hour flyer I have. Can i email it to you in the next day or two?22:37
philipballewbtw... I dont move back to sd till later this month22:38
DarkwingDuckYeah... I only have 4 lanyards22:38
DarkwingDuckI have quite a few Natty CDs. Ubuntu, Kubuntu and a few server22:39
philipballewI have 2, would anyone here have any. im going to the sf hour next week22:39
philipballewmaybe somebody there does22:39
DarkwingDuckI have enough CDs22:39
philipballewI do to, but laynards I mean?22:40
philipballewis that necessary you think?22:40
DarkwingDuckNot really, I was thinking of lanyarded name-tapes for people who are helping other in the jam.22:41
DarkwingDuckI'll toss my ideas in the email... I have to run really quick.22:41
philipballewmakes sense, ill bring my two. haha. alright ill make the flayer and email it to you!22:42
DarkwingDuckI'll email those links and another idea I had. :D22:42
philipballewalright sweet!22:42
DarkwingDuckphilipballew: email sent.22:47
philipballewDarkwingDuck, email received.22:48
philipballewI can have the flayer by tomorrow morning. I don't recall being able to send photos on the mailing list here though.22:49
philipballewprobably give a link22:49
DarkwingDuckYou an Ubuntu member phil?22:49
philipballewyes i am22:50
DarkwingDuckUse your people.ubuntu.com account :D22:50
philipballewalright! haha. sounds good then.22:50
pleia2or https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-california/+junk/flyers ;)22:51
philipballewill look into it. unsure what i need, but it looks good22:55

Generated by irclog2html.py 2.7 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!