[00:00] <_stink_> can't do it bytewise, i get it now.  gotta make the hex bit instead.
[00:00] <_stink_> sweet.
[00:03] <_stink_> i overloaded 'bit' there.
[00:03] <_stink_> s/bit/part.
[00:03] <rick_h_> gotcha
[00:50] <rick_h_> bah, getting cranky. My talk is the last one not on the site now
[00:50] <rick_h_> other than lightning talks I guess
[00:58] <greg-g> rick_h_: it was that full of awesome that they couldn't contain it all on youtube
[01:01] <rick_h_> greg-g: hah
[01:02] <rick_h_> I had thought so, thanks for verifying
[01:03] <brousch> no, rick_h_'s talk was so hot the tape melted
[03:40] <snap-l> :q
[11:48] <snap-l> Good morning, folks.
[11:48] <rick_h_> morning
[11:52] <Wolfger> party
[12:02] <brousch> naptime
[12:02] <rick_h_> +1
[12:03] <snap-l> ++ ++
[12:05] <Wolfger> I wish it was naptime
[12:08] <rick_h_> http://www.notquitewrong.com/rosscottinc/2011/08/03/so-youre-mad-about-something-on-the-internet/
[12:18] <Wolfger> dickfinity. Priceless
[12:36] <greg-g> g'morn
[12:47] <rick_h_> http://blip.tv/pyohio/sqlalchemy-tutorial-5442205 so so close!
[12:49] <greg-g> haha
[12:50] <snap-l> rick_h_: Sheesh, you're like an expectant father. ;)
[12:50] <rick_h_> I want to keep ahead of the fall out
[12:50] <greg-g> and it is now the first bookmark of the day: https://bmark.us/recent
[12:51] <rick_h_> you have to understand, when I talk, I just kind of hit play and honestly can't remember much of the during
[12:51] <rick_h_> so people tell me there were people on the floor and in the hall
[12:51] <snap-l> You're assuming I remember anything I say an hour after saying it.
[12:51] <brousch> what are we talking about?
[12:52] <rick_h_> bah, picasa is taking too long
[12:52] <rick_h_> https://picasaweb.google.com/deuce868/pyohio#5635716983660312738 is my last view I really remember
[12:52] <snap-l> Nice, the other party's insurance is picking up our deductible.
[12:52] <rick_h_> and then a blur and then done
[12:52] <rick_h_> yay
[12:53] <rick_h_> brousch: if you try to load my link above
[12:53] <snap-l> Yeah, that's a bit of a relief.
[12:53] <rick_h_> my video is on the site, but gives an error "the video was recenlty added and isn't ready" or something
[12:53] <snap-l> rick_h_: That's what I got
[12:53] <snap-l> Oh, that was for brousch's benefit
[12:54] <rick_h_> snap-l: yea
[12:54] <snap-l> GET WITH THE PROGRAM, brousch
[12:54] <rick_h_> it's a friday, we're all out of it
[12:54] <greg-g> snap-l: whew. Good dea. I remember when I was hit by a big Ram 2500 when I drove my little (but tough!) Ranger. Their insurance Did The Right Thing, too.
[12:54] <greg-g> s/dea/deal
[12:54] <snap-l> Yeah, honestly I was expecting to have to cough up the deductible.
[12:55] <snap-l> since there was no police report, etc.
[12:55] <rick_h_> sweet, snap-l's taking us all out to lunch!
[12:55] <greg-g> man, that picasa/google+ tagging of people in photos is still unnerving for me (same with facebook)
[12:55] <snap-l> rick_h_: Hardly.
[12:55] <snap-l> Keeps us treading water, not floating calmly on it. ;)
[12:55] <rick_h_> greg-g: yea, I'm with you on that
[12:56] <snap-l> me too
[12:56] <snap-l> "blah blah tagged you in a photo". "NO! Don't do that! My sacred privacy!"
[12:57] <snap-l> Like brousch just did
[12:57] <brousch> hehe
[12:57] <brousch> i should tag people who aren't even in there
[12:57] <snap-l> Tag the chandelier as "Wil Wheaton"
[12:58] <snap-l> ;)
[12:59] <snap-l> At least you can remove it.
[12:59] <brousch> very nice
[13:00] <brousch> and i can BLOCK you from taggin me in the future
[13:00] <snap-l> Oh, how elegant.
[13:00] <greg-g> I think, that if you tag anyone else in a photo, your setting of blocking others from tagging you should be removed. Quid pro Quo and all that, mutha effer
[13:01] <greg-g> just like, if someone follows me on twitter, and their timeline is private, I shouldn't have to request to see their timeline, it should be pre-granted for me.
[13:01] <Wolfger> I hate it when people tag a photo with names of people who aren't in the photo. Don't do that.
[13:01] <greg-g> Wolfger: but, it'll be just like Facebook then!
[13:01] <greg-g> and we all love facebook!
[13:02] <Wolfger> greg-g: Yes, ++ (regarding twitter)
[13:02] <Wolfger> if you tag a photo with my name and I'm not in it, I will report you for spam :-p
[13:02] <Wolfger> because that's what you're doing
[13:03] <brousch> you're no fun
[13:03] <Wolfger> Yes I am. I have references. :-)
[13:14] <rick_h_>  http://techcrunch.com/2011/08/05/stop-its-a-really-bad-time-to-buy-a-kindle/  oh oh oh oh
[13:19] <brousch> snap-l: i sent a barcampgr announcement to ubuntu-mi, would you please pass it along to MUG?
[13:20] <brousch> and if someone in the washtenaw linux group would pass it along to them, i'd appreciate it
[13:28] <snap-l> Sure thing
[13:29] <snap-l> brousch: Done.
[13:29] <brousch> awesome, thanks
[14:01] <jrwren> does anyone use landscape?
[14:01] <rick_h_> nope
[14:03]  * greg-g only has a laptop nowadays
[14:03] <greg-g> no need for that kind of management :)
[14:04] <brousch> i prefer portrait, but sometimes it just fits better in landscape
[14:04] <rick_h_> har har har
[14:05] <jrwren> if that was a terrible name dig... i agree :)
[14:06] <Wolfger> landscape... name... dig... <groan>
[14:08] <snap-l> Apparently it's a competition to see how many commands you can use in a sentence. ;)
[14:11] <rick_h_> lol, perl lightning talk at pyohio
[14:12] <rick_h_> snap-l: we missed the fun stuff
[14:12] <Wolfger> ++ to today's xkcd alt text
[14:12] <Wolfger> aw man, there was Perl at PyOhio? I knew I should have gone... ;-)
[14:13] <rick_h_> going over porting moose stuff into python
[14:14] <snap-l> What?
[14:14] <rick_h_> the sun lighting talks are up
[14:14] <snap-l> Perl at PyOhio? No, no...
[14:14] <rick_h_> and one of them is how he's porting moose-isms from perl to python
[14:14] <snap-l> I haven't looked enough at Moose, but the mental image isn't pretty
[14:15] <snap-l> let's take Perl's riffing on everyone else's frameworks and port them back to Python
[14:16] <snap-l> That may be very unfair, though. My impression of Moose after giving it less than 5 minutes glance wasn't favorable.
[14:16] <snap-l> http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=miroguide+pyohio <- Check this out
[14:17] <snap-l> mine has lococast at the top of that list.
[14:17] <rick_h_> same here
[14:17] <snap-l> ;)
[14:21] <greg-g> btw, we're rocking out again today, if you're down with listening to us DJ for you: http://turntable.fm/ubuntuallstars
[14:21] <snap-l> Facebook != listening
[14:22] <greg-g> I know I know :(
[14:22] <snap-l> (Sorry, but that's a big beef of mine with turntable.fm)
[14:22] <greg-g> I know, I held out for so long
[14:25] <snap-l> http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-08-05/alcatel-s-76-drop-since-lucent-means-breakup-value-isn-t-french-real-m-a.html <- And this is why we can never have serious patent reform
[14:25] <snap-l> "Alcatel’s patents alone may be worth twice as much as the $4.5 billion that Nortel Networks’ licenses sold for in a bankruptcy auction in June, according to MKM Partners LP, even as analysts expect Alcatel’s routers and optical fiber products to drive a 59 percent share gain. "
[14:28] <greg-g> yeah, money talks
[14:29] <snap-l> w/q greg-g Worse, Lucent actually owns and has litigated mp3 patents.
[14:30] <snap-l> bah
[14:31] <snap-l> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcatel-Lucent_v._Microsoft
[14:43] <brousch> does i3 have any employees?
[14:43] <rick_h_> I think it's all volunteer
[14:43] <rick_h_> they're not 501c3 yet
[14:48] <snap-l> I'm not even sure what an i3 employee would be. ;)
[14:50] <brousch> pr man, tours, videographer
[14:50] <brousch> paperwork
[14:50] <brousch> accounting
[14:50] <brousch> etc
[14:50] <brousch> bouncer
[15:12] <nullspace> looks like pastbin.com is down
[15:12] <nullspace> #i3detroit
[15:13] <rick_h_> huh?
[15:15] <nullspace> paste bin went down for a little
[15:15] <rick_h_> so what was the #i3 reference to it?
[15:15] <greg-g> mistype
[15:15] <greg-g> my guess
[15:21] <nullspace> yep
[15:21] <nullspace> forgot the /j
[15:22] <nullspace> my guess is a bunch of people just learned to enumerate pastebin
[15:22] <rick_h_> well there was a post up that pastebin.com had cross some large number of pastes this morning
[15:23] <rick_h_> http://techcrunch.com/2011/08/05/pastebin-now-home-to-8-million-active-pastes/
[15:23] <nullspace> makes me wonder how often they clear things out
[15:28] <jrwren> rick_h_: when did you realize you were a linux guru?
[15:28] <jrwren> or really... all:  at what point did you realize you were a linux guru?
[15:28] <rick_h_> when I stopped caring about windows
[15:28] <jrwren> really?
[15:29] <rick_h_> just realized i didn't know how it worked/what it was up to anymore
[15:29] <jrwren> i know lots of linux peeps who hate on windows but who aren't very linux-savy
[15:29] <rick_h_> yea, but they hate, but can sit down and change the wallpaper
[15:29] <rick_h_> if you put win7 in front of me, I have no idea where/how that works
[15:29] <jrwren> ah... so I'd probably consider you a guru before that... but it was your lack of windows knowledge taht triggered your own guru realization
[15:30] <rick_h_> was more work for me to do things on the aunt's windows machine than on my linux machine
[15:30] <rick_h_> so maybe that's a better summary
[15:30] <rick_h_> for various definitions of guru I guess
[15:31] <_stink_> mine's something like that - i think it was when i (1) could no longer answer simple questions from family/friends about windows + (2) became a resource for people at work about linux.
[15:31] <snap-l> Also, the definition of guru is overloaded IMHO
[15:32] <snap-l> guru can mean anything from being able to teach people how to do simple tasks in Linux to being able to handle a DDoS in a server room without a noticable drop in traffic.
[15:34] <_stink_> i might use the word 'guy' instead.
[15:34] <_stink_> that's when i knew i was a 'linux guy'.
[15:35] <brousch> but that was not his question
[15:35] <jrwren> agreed.
[15:35] <jrwren> guru definition is entirely subjective.. that is part of why I asked.
[15:35] <_stink_> well
[15:35] <_stink_> then my answer is that i am not a guru
[15:35] <jrwren> _stink_: but you are to those people at work who use you as a resource.
[15:36] <_stink_> that's true, yes.
[15:36] <snap-l> I think everyone in this channel, to a T, can say they know someone who knows more about Linux than they do
[15:37] <snap-l> How did I become the go-to person for Linux questions? because I was for the longest time the only person
[15:37] <snap-l> It's not hard to be the pied piper when you're the only one playing the flute.
[15:37] <snap-l> it only depends on if the rats are listening
[15:38]  * snap-l wonders if he can abuse that metaphor any more than he already has
[15:39] <ptenhoopen> snap-l:  That was well put.
[15:41] <snap-l> Thank you.
[15:42] <brousch> i realized i was a guru when ptenhoopen let me present at him linux user group
[15:42] <brousch> his
[16:05] <ptenhoopen> brousch:  Glad to have elevated your status. :)
[17:18] <rick_h_> someone shut off my internet
[17:19] <rick_h_> please hurry, NC dude is going off
[17:19] <snap-l> Heh
[17:19] <snap-l> Just found out that my parents cat has a tumor and an abcess.
[17:19] <_stink_> :/
[17:19] <rick_h_> :(
[17:19] <snap-l> hopefully it's benign, but my parents aren't terribly happy at this point.
[17:20] <snap-l> Growing up sucks.
[17:20] <Wolfger> :-(
[17:20] <snap-l> thanks
[17:20] <Wolfger> abcesses suck
[17:25] <snap-l> Thanks.
[17:25] <snap-l> also, don't go to wikipeida to look them up
[17:29] <Wolfger> so noted
[17:35] <Wolfger> only 69 days until 11.10 comes out
[17:36] <brousch> 69!
[17:36] <Wolfger> I feel like I should be alpha/beta testing or something
[17:37] <brousch> make it so
[17:40]  * Wolfger waits for brousch to execute The Picard Maneuver...
[17:45] <Wolfger> ugh. Periscope down. Time to crank out a big report on moment's notice before EoB. Have a good weekend everybody
[17:59] <Blazeix> wtf, they added another game to the humble bundle 3? How am I supposed to get meaningful work done?
[18:01] <brousch> Blazeix: that's easy, don't buy games :P
[18:03] <Blazeix> I budgeted time for 5 games, now I have 7, and my curve is all thrown off.
[18:03] <Blazeix> I assume next week I'll have 8.
[18:04] <Blazeix> actually, I never bought HB2, so I suppose I have all those games too.
[18:19] <greg-g> oh man, what's the point of chromium having separate process for each tab if I can't kill one's pid without killing all of chromium?
[18:20] <greg-g> yep, you do :)
[18:20] <rick_h_> greg-g: there's a tool in chrome to do that
[18:21] <rick_h_> when I hit the config button there's a "view background pages" that lists tabs and extensions with an "end process"
[18:21] <greg-g> yeah, but what if I can't switch tabs/open up the wrench menu?
[18:21] <rick_h_> boom!
[18:21] <greg-g> yeah, big boom
[18:33] <Wolfger> ok, I'm going to have to buy this when I get home
[18:33] <Wolfger> not that I have time for more games in my life
[20:12] <snap-l> How's the afternoon treating everyone so far?
[20:12] <Blazeix> well, my 4 hour meeting turned into a 6 hour meeting.
[20:12] <Blazeix> so that was fun.
[20:13] <Blazeix> (company-wide, quarterly meeting)
[20:13] <snap-l> Blazeix: Oh dear god
[20:13] <snap-l> Did they at least give pee breaks?
[20:14] <snap-l> Blazeix: Ugh, even better
[20:14] <snap-l> "Let's hear it for Carol from Accounting, who made our processes 1.4% more efficient. Sadly, Carol cannot be with us because of the nervous breakdown she and her team had while aiming for that 1.4% efficiency boost".
[20:15] <snap-l> "Let that be a lesson to you all. I want you all to have nervous breakdowns if it means we can do more with less".
[20:19] <snap-l> "Also, I'd like to welcome Bob as the new head of accounting. I'm sure Bob will follow carefully in Carol's footsteps, and will be a great asset to the team. Plus he already knows the fine folks at Shady Pines Asylum from his previous position in finance."
[20:22] <Blazeix> yeah, that was pretty much it. talking about benefits, recruiting, other stuff I don't care about
[20:29] <snap-l> I really hate financial institution security.
[20:29] <snap-l> Pick the following image. Enter a catch phrase. What is your favorite brand of golf-ball
[20:30] <snap-l> I swear, it's like getting a rorschach test along with playing a party game
[20:33] <brousch> sqlalchemy gurus http://paste.mitechie.com/show/375/
[20:33] <brousch> my query does not seem to be filtering by is_bad
[20:33] <brousch> i don't know why
[20:37] <snap-l> What's in the column? (select distinct is_bad from table ...)
[20:38] <Blazeix> that should be ==, not =, right?
[20:38] <Blazeix> oh, wait, maybe both work
[20:38] <_stink_> filter_by should use single =, it hink
[20:38] <_stink_> filter() wants ==
[20:38] <Blazeix> ah, you're right
[20:39] <_stink_> can't tell why this wouldn't work, though.
[20:39] <snap-l> I think the data is hinky
[20:39] <brousch> i see 1s and 0s in the sqlite db
[20:39] <brousch> for true and false
[20:40] <snap-l> OK, so that's OK.
[20:40] <brousch> it seems to be getting set correctly, but it's returning all results, ignoring the filters
[20:41] <snap-l> did you try it without the limit?
[20:41] <_stink_> dunno, can you AND two filter_bys?
[20:41] <_stink_> i would guess you can
[20:41] <snap-l> also, what's the sql display?
[20:41] <_stink_> i know you can AND filter() like that.
[20:41] <brousch> maybe they don't chain?
[20:41] <brousch> i think they do
[20:42] <_stink_> i think they do too.
[20:42] <_stink_> but didn't test. :P
[20:42] <snap-l> add "echo=True" to your create_engine, and paste the SQL
[20:42] <snap-l> engine = create_engine('sqlite:///piddlepodderpy.db', echo=True)
[20:42] <brousch> i don't have a create engine
[20:42] <brousch> it's using flask-sqlalchemy
[20:43] <snap-l> Um, so find where it binds the engine and see if you can add the echo? :)
[20:44] <snap-l> Also, Unity can die in a fire with the way that windows that pop up steal focus
[20:44] <snap-l> Banshee doesn't like it when I tell it -sqlalchemy
[20:45] <snap-l> brousch: http://packages.python.org/Flask-SQLAlchemy/config.html
[20:45] <snap-l> SQLALCHEMY_ECHO
[20:46] <brousch> got it http://paste.mitechie.com/show/376/
[20:47] <snap-l> When you run that query under sqlite3, what does it give you?
[20:48] <Blazeix> hm, are you displaying the right variable on your UI? that query _seems_ correct
[20:48] <snap-l> Blazeix: ++. I've not seen anything yet to suggest a problem.
[20:48] <snap-l> unless sqlite3 is behaving like a piece of shit
[20:48] <snap-l> (which it can do from time to time)
[20:48] <Blazeix> sqlite. Querying not supported.
[20:49] <brousch> looks like it doesn't work under sqlite3 either
[20:50] <brousch> hm
[20:51] <snap-l> Which version of sqlite3?
[20:51] <snap-l> (this is part of my eternal frustration with sqlite3. When it works it's a dream. When it doesn't, it's no better than just throwing random shit into files)
[20:52] <brousch> 3.6.22
[20:52] <snap-l> You may have a buggy version
[20:52] <brousch> it's the current version in ubuntu 10.04, so i hope not
[20:52] <Blazeix> flask is a web framework, right? maybe you should just set up postgres or something.
[20:53] <snap-l> That's the spirit. ;)
[20:53] <Blazeix> I've only ever had issues with sqlite.
[20:53] <Blazeix> I've never had it fail this hard before, though.
[20:53] <snap-l> "I see you're having problems with your puny file-based SQL engine. Man up and install a real database."
[20:54] <snap-l> I had problems with sqlite3 under 10.04 as well
[20:54] <snap-l> commits didn't commit
[20:54] <Blazeix> I'm exemplifying typical IRC helpfulness. "X isn't working."  "Why are you trying to X?"
[20:54] <snap-l> Blazeix: Oh, totally. That's the way of IRC.
[20:55] <snap-l> "I see you're trying to kill an ant. I find that flyswatter 2.0 is not effective. I prefer SCUD missiles, personally"
[20:56] <snap-l> "borax as ant poison? Takes too long. I just microwave my house."
[20:56] <snap-l> "I picked up 4 microwave dishes from the MIT flea market for dirt cheap. You might be able to find the same thing at Radio Shack"
[20:57] <snap-l> "total cost of the project: $30 and a handjob"
[20:57] <snap-l> (yes, I'm dissing Make and Lifehacker as well)
[20:58] <brousch> hm, i don't think these are getting set as bad
[20:58] <Blazeix> hm, didn't your initial 'distinct' query return some records with is_bad=True?
[20:58] <Blazeix> if you're setting stuff as is_bad=True, then immediately requerying, you might need to flush the session.
[20:59] <snap-l> Also check if a commit is sent
[20:59] <snap-l> brousch: Another thought: how many processes are connecting to this file?
[20:59] <brousch> http://paste.mitechie.com/show/377/
[21:00] <brousch> does that look right for setting is_bad in each of them?
[21:00] <snap-l> I'm not sure if sqlite3 can handle multiple connections
[21:00] <snap-l> brousch: Check the SQL. It's the only way to be sure.
[21:02] <snap-l> Also, you might want to spin up another DB, just to make sure that you're not chasing sqlite errors
[21:03] <snap-l> I about drove myself batty with sqlite3 and Perl, only to realize that sqlite3 wasn't honoring the commits I was sending.
[21:05] <Blazeix> oh my god. Someone extended the boolean type in this project with a method called IsTrue()
[21:05] <snap-l> Beauty. :)
[21:05] <_stink_> haha
[21:06] <Blazeix> ah, it isn't as bad as i initially thought.
[21:07] <Blazeix> it was added as part of a fluent api unit test framework, where you write test cases like foo.hasBaz().isTrue()
[21:07] <Blazeix> it's a little bit awkward, but _maybe_ forgiveable for a fluent api
[21:08] <Blazeix> but the references leaked from the test project into the main project, so it was popping up in the autocomplete of my editor.
[21:14] <snap-l> I'm starting to really hate budget classical releases.
[21:14] <snap-l> Never any meta-data for any of them in MusicBrainz
[21:14] <snap-l> 15 tracks, each by a different composer / orchestra / conductor
[22:11] <brousch> it's like the commit never runs
[22:13] <brousch> hm, the change is made, but it's never committed
[22:39] <snap-l> rick_h_: sheesh, what did NC dude do to warrant you flooding the place?
[22:39] <snap-l> brousch: try mysql or postgresql
[22:58] <rick_h_> brousch: never use filter by, just filter. I wish he'd remove that filterby
[22:58] <brousch> what's the difference?
[22:59] <brousch> i don't think that's my problem though
[22:59] <brousch> the queries look correct, it's just not committing
[22:59] <rick_h_> sorry, reading scrollback
[23:00] <rick_h_> ok, so is .query valid for your model?
[23:00] <rick_h_> did you copy the part from my demo code that added that?
[23:00] <rick_h_> and are you getting results from your query?
[23:01] <rick_h_> e.g. your loop is executing?
[23:02] <rick_h_> and filterby brousch the space after the .\ I don't think is valid
[23:02] <rick_h_> bah sorry
[23:02] <rick_h_> you have spaces between the . and \
[23:03] <rick_h_> I don't think you can have that or it breaks the chain
[23:13] <brousch> i think i figured it out
[23:14] <brousch> something about the record not being in the session
[23:14] <brousch> so the commit doesn't see the change
[23:14] <brousch> and commits nothing
[23:15] <brousch> but if i add it, it ays that's already attached to a different session
[23:17] <rick_h_> you shouldn't have two sessions going on
[23:18] <rick_h_> the db.Model should be bound to db.session
[23:18] <rick_h_> not sure how flask extension sets it up
[23:19] <brousch> definitely something wonky there
[23:27] <brousch> a second session is coming from somewhere
[23:32] <brousch> i must have mucked it up when i moved my database models out of the same file as my views
[23:32] <brousch> i just moved them back and now it works
[23:38] <brousch> it works now, so i'm just going to leave the models in there
[23:43] <brousch> i think it's from the facy hookup the flask-sqlalchemy extension uses. if i use regular sqlalchemy i think it would work
[23:46] <rick_h_> well every web framework does some fancy hookup so that each request gets their own session
[23:46] <rick_h_> so that user 1 can't change/overwrite/conflict with user 2
[23:50] <brousch> but in http://paste.mitechie.com/show/377/
[23:50] <brousch> the changes to bgi are in a different session from the db.session.commit()
[23:54] <brousch> almost like it's pulling a new session out of thin air. is there a way to ensure something happens in a specific session?
[23:55] <brousch> maybe like db.session.query(GridItem)...
[23:55] <rick_h_> you create a session and then it goes bound to the db.Model
[23:56] <rick_h_> that needs to be the same session you're using in db.session
[23:58] <rick_h_> http://packages.python.org/Flask-SQLAlchemy/contexts.html ?