[00:14] <bazhang> recommend installing 3.0 in natty augh
[00:19] <bazhang> maahes quit message OK?
[00:20] <bazhang> * maahes has quit (Quit: The angle of the dangle is directly proportionate to the heat of the meat, Provided that the mass of the ass is constant. |WeeChat 0.3.6-dev)
[04:27] <rww> alrighty, I'm clearing out the -read-topic banforwards. All the people on the victims list are stubbornly refusing to test themselves ;(
[04:44] <rww> bazhang said hi to someone. MUST BE A TROLL </paranoia>
[04:46] <bazhang> rww, thought it might be Ginbuntu, based on the recent comments and the ident
[04:46] <rww> bazhang: we got bored and unbanned them, iirc
[04:46] <bazhang> rww, ok
[04:46] <rww> will keep an eye on them, though (and yes, it is them)
[05:05]  * rww predicts imminant Seanmc98 sighting in here
[05:06] <bazhang> theadmin seems confused about directly editing grub.cfg
[05:07] <rww> (they're BF'd from #ubuntu-offtopic, but let's go the direct route.)
[05:07] <Seanmc98|mobile> Hello rww?
[05:07] <rww> Seanmc98|mobile: Thanks. I've been meaning to have a chat with you for a couple of days, glad I could catch you:
[05:08] <Seanmc98|mobile> May I ask about what?
[05:08] <rww> I'm typing :P
[05:08] <bazhang> benonsoftware, asdjaputra need some help?
[05:08] <rww> Seanmc98|mobile: In short, #ubuntu is for technical support questions about Ubuntu. #ubuntu-offtopic is not for technical support questions, period. I've noticed you asking non-Ubuntu questions in #ubuntu and asking support questions in #ubuntu-offtopic, and ignoring people telling you not to. This is going to stop now.
[05:08] <asdjaputra> i can't be idle here, bazhang?
[05:08] <Flannel> asdjaputra: We ask that you aren't, correct.
[05:08] <bazhang> asdjaputra, please don't
[05:09] <Seanmc98|mobile> Um ok? sorry
[05:09] <asdjaputra> k
[05:09] <rww> Seanmc98|mobile: Thanks. Please be aware that you're now on notice about this, so make sure to follow those guidelines.
[05:09] <rww> That's all :)
[05:09] <Seanmc98|mobile> Ok
[05:10] <Seanmc98|mobile> And just for the record I use #ununtu-offtopic to ask people in there who might help seeing as how #ubuntu is always to busy
[05:11] <rww> As I've said, do not do that.
[05:11] <rww> If people in #ubuntu-offtopic want to offer support, they're in #ubuntu.
[05:11] <Seanmc98|mobile> Ok
[05:15] <Flannel> Hi os2mac
[05:15] <Flannel> bye os2mac
[05:21] <rww> jwheare [u2@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xhviwyrexqdkpeqa] => I idly wonder if ident UIDs for irccloud are in chronological order...
[07:56] <Myrtti> eerie
[08:01] <rww> indeed
[08:28] <oCean> DASDAS is lars, let's see how this goes
[08:33] <IdleOne> that's what I get for answering a question every six months in there
[08:33] <IdleOne> get accused of making fun of people
[08:34] <rww> stop making fun of me, IdleOne
[08:34] <rww> !coc > IdleOne
[08:34] <rww> very disrespectful :(
[08:34] <IdleOne> rww: you wish
[08:34] <oCean> hehe, this is how it goes in #u these days
[08:34] <IdleOne> the trolls give half arsed advice and when they get corrected they get insulted?
[08:36] <rww> it just occured to me. when summer vacation is happening, we complain about all the trolls on the channel. when school is in, we complain about all the classes that mass-join and start talking mongolian or whatever
[08:37] <rww> also, I note that there are scenarios under which an upgrade from Jaunty is not possible. e.g. I have an ARM system that cannot be upgraded to karmic because Ubuntu dropped support for my architecture version :P
[08:37] <rww> the solution to this problem, as with all Ubuntu problems, involves Debian netinstall ISO.
[08:37] <IdleOne> heh
[08:37] <rww> except for "I really miss yum", I guess
[08:41] <oCean> here we go
[08:42] <rww> why are we not kickbanning him for rampant ban evasion again?
[08:42] <IdleOne> topily talked to him
[08:42] <oCean> rww: you read topily's conversation?
[08:42] <IdleOne> did topyli pastebin it?
[08:44] <rww> oCean: no, I didn't. first I've heard of it.
[08:45] <rww> irony: while failing to ask an actual question, LarsTorben factoids someone for not asking a question (even though they actually did).
[09:08] <IdleOne> rww: those all lars?
[09:08] <rww> no
[09:08] <rww> I nuked the other Lars bans and replaced them with my ident+ISP one the other day
[09:09] <rww> hrm, should probably check #ubuntu+1, come to think of it
[09:15] <oCean> rww: are you sure you have all of them?
[09:17] <rww> #ubuntu+1 doesn't have any on him. #ubuntu may have some IP or webchat ones
[09:18] <oCean> let me check, I have some webchat ones
[09:18] <rww> I just found a couple more, one sec
[09:18] <oCean> oh, and maybe in#k
[09:18] <oCean> in #k
[09:20] <rww> #k I can't help with ;)
[09:21] <rww> ok, that's all I see. there are probably others, but I don't feel like trawling BT :P
[09:57]  * Myrtti watches
[11:16] <bazhang> * [karni] (~mkarnicki@canonical/launchpad/karni): Michał Karnicki   <--- canonical employees get a pass on being offtopic?
[11:17] <Myrtti> no they don't, but if we go on telling him on the channel what is wrong with his attitude, that is also offtopic
[11:18] <bazhang> * Linux4UnMe (~kaddy@241.116.dsl.pth.iprimus.net.au)  <--- spam and quit
[11:47] <topyli> Myrtti: +1 - pm is the way
[11:49] <popey> I just asked Linux4UnMe not to spam #ubuntu and got some abuse
[11:55] <Tm_T> kaddy again
[12:28] <bazhang> * industrial (~industria@194.145.194.227) has left #ubuntu
[12:28] <bazhang> bf?
[13:24] <oCean> FaTHeRBaDTouC in pm
[13:24] <oCean> I'm an ordained minister
[13:28] <FaTHeRBaDTouCH> Morning.
[13:29] <oCean> hello
[13:29] <FaTHeRBaDTouCH> Can someone explain to me what exactly is offensive enough in my name to warrant this:
 hi there
 Morning.
 would you mind changing your nick into something else?
 Yes I would.
 That would be nice
 I'm an ordained minister
[13:29] <FaTHeRBaDTouCH>  I've earned the title father
[13:29] <FaTHeRBaDTouCH>  ty
 Others might interpret as very offensive
 Thats very open ended.
[13:29] <FaTHeRBaDTouCH>  You asking me to change my name is offensive to me.
 True
[13:29] <FaTHeRBaDTouCH>  Ok.
[13:29] <FaTHeRBaDTouCH>  I'll have to remove you from the channel if you are not willing to change it
 There is no abusive or hateful words in my name.
[13:29] <FaTHeRBaDTouCH>  I'm not being abusive in the channel.
 Correct, but I find it offensive, I'm sure others do too. So this is your chance to change it
 I'm here looking for help and you're here doing....?
[13:29] <FaTHeRBaDTouCH>  So you're pushing your religious views upon others?
[13:29] <FaTHeRBaDTouCH>  What exactly is it you find offensive about my name?
 the moment to change your nick would be now. The place to discuss your removal is #ubuntu-ops
 I don't understand what you find offensive.
[13:29] <FaTHeRBaDTouCH>  I asked you what that was, ty for the courtesy of conversing with me.
[13:30] <FaTHeRBaDTouCH>  So now if I say that your name is offensive, does that mean you have to change it?
[13:30] <FaTHeRBaDTouCH> oCean, you're name is still offending me BTW
[13:30] <FaTHeRBaDTouCH> I'd like it noticed that all I did when I came into the channel was ask if anybody had experience with Funambol.
[13:31] <FaTHeRBaDTouCH> I certainly didn't come to the room to be a troll like I'm being treated.
[13:31] <oCean> Your nick has been noticed before, this is not the first time you use this nick. We have not discussed this with you previously, so I tried to do so
[13:31] <FaTHeRBaDTouCH> No it's not. Amazingly I have xirc.
[13:31] <FaTHeRBaDTouCH> xirc comes into that room by default man.
[13:32] <FaTHeRBaDTouCH> Probably so those with PROBLEMS can get HELP
[13:32] <FaTHeRBaDTouCH> not be ostracized because of a stupid name
[13:32] <FaTHeRBaDTouCH> a name which has no swearing or hateful words in it.
[13:32] <FaTHeRBaDTouCH> If you have issues with priests man, thats your problem. Please don't make it everyones issue on their behalf.
[13:33] <oCean> I think you very well understand why people might find it offensive
[13:33] <FaTHeRBaDTouCH> I think you're overstepping your authority.
[13:34] <FaTHeRBaDTouCH> People can find alot of things offensive.
[13:34] <FaTHeRBaDTouCH> That doesn't mean its going to change.
[13:34] <FaTHeRBaDTouCH> Like I said your name is offensive to me.
[13:35] <FaTHeRBaDTouCH> Does that mean you're going to change it to suit me?
[13:35] <FaTHeRBaDTouCH> This is  a big world outside of your monitor man.
[13:35] <FaTHeRBaDTouCH> There*
[13:36] <FaTHeRBaDTouCH> Is there anybody else present?
[13:36] <oCean> Here's our code of conduct. Based on that I made this decision
[13:36] <oCean> !coc > FaTHeRBaDTouCH
[13:37] <oCean> also, If you still think I overstepped authority, find our appeals procedure here:
[13:37] <oCean> !appeal > FaTHeRBaDTouCH
[13:37] <FaTHeRBaDTouCH> Using a bot to convey the same message doesn't make it anymore impressive.
[13:38] <FaTHeRBaDTouCH> I understand why you're here. But you should be open to understanding.
[13:38] <FaTHeRBaDTouCH> Nothing has been mentioned about me finding your name offensive.
[13:39] <FaTHeRBaDTouCH> oCean,
[13:39] <FaTHeRBaDTouCH> please answer me if you're throwing the allegations around.
 wants you to know: If you disagree with a decision by an operator, please first pay #ubuntu-ops a visit.
[13:39] <FaTHeRBaDTouCH> I'm here man.
[13:39] <oCean> I have no problem understanding. You very well understand it is not the "Father" part of your nick that is offensive. It's the combination with the rest of it
[13:40] <FaTHeRBaDTouCH> What are you tlaking about?
[13:40] <FaTHeRBaDTouCH> I ran around with the name Bad Touch Before I was ordained.
[13:40] <FaTHeRBaDTouCH> It's a Michael Jackson song man.
[13:40] <FaTHeRBaDTouCH> Also bloodhound gang I do believe
[13:40] <FaTHeRBaDTouCH> Please don't force your sick views upon others.
[13:41] <FaTHeRBaDTouCH> Your mind is twisted if THATS what you put to gether.
[13:41] <FaTHeRBaDTouCH> I thought you were offended because of the "Father"
[13:42] <FaTHeRBaDTouCH> You really thought THAT?
[13:42] <FaTHeRBaDTouCH> And YOU'RE an operator with the "moral compass"?
[13:42] <FaTHeRBaDTouCH> oCean,
[13:43] <FaTHeRBaDTouCH> oCean, I still find your name offensive, can you please change it?
[13:43] <FaTHeRBaDTouCH> By the rules man, you should consider my request.
[13:44] <FaTHeRBaDTouCH> Live by the sword, die by it. Isn't that right oCean?
[13:44] <FaTHeRBaDTouCH> You're suppose to be here to talk this out with me oCean.
[13:45] <FaTHeRBaDTouCH> Thats what your bot said.
[13:47] <FaTHeRBaDTouCH> oCean, may I ask what rule exactly it is you're accusing me of breaking?
[13:47] <FaTHeRBaDTouCH> What rule I broke, that deems removal from the channel.
[13:48] <FaTHeRBaDTouCH> Can you please cite for me the reference point for the ban?
[13:48] <jussi>  I dont know what oCean is accusing you of, but your enter  key abuse is pretty horrible to read.
[13:48] <FaTHeRBaDTouCH> Ty, for that courtesy.
[13:48] <oCean> Since you're clearly on a different point of view than I, all I can do is refer again to our appeals process. I will not continue because I very well understand that in the end we still will not agree
[13:49] <FaTHeRBaDTouCH> If you refuse to admit wrong doing, yes.
[13:49] <FaTHeRBaDTouCH> I'm an ordained minister and have PROUDLY EARNED the title FATHER
[13:50] <FaTHeRBaDTouCH> Please don't refuse my religious rights.
[13:50] <FaTHeRBaDTouCH> This is unconstitutional BTW. I'd like to be on record as that.
[13:51] <jussi> FaTHeRBaDTouCH: no one is asking you to remove the father part, just amend the other part
[13:51] <FaTHeRBaDTouCH> jussi, I used The other part BEFORE i had been ordained.
[13:52] <FaTHeRBaDTouCH> Also I only came into #ubuntu to ask for help with Funambol. Instead I get this.
[13:52] <FaTHeRBaDTouCH> Harassed and booted out of the room like some troll.
[13:52] <jussi> FaTHeRBaDTouCH: the words together are not something we think is in good taste for our channels. We are just asking politely that you change it before continuing
[13:53] <FaTHeRBaDTouCH> Who is to define what is in good taste?
[13:53] <FaTHeRBaDTouCH> Maybe it's a comment on society.
[13:53] <jussi> We use our common sense.
[13:54] <FaTHeRBaDTouCH> It's not, but what if it was? Wouldn't getting me to change it confine my free rights to express myself?
[13:54] <FaTHeRBaDTouCH> I'm not using it for the intention I am being acussed of.
[13:54] <FaTHeRBaDTouCH> I'm clearly not being seen as innocent until proven guilty.
[13:54] <FaTHeRBaDTouCH> Common sense isn't all that common.
[13:55] <FaTHeRBaDTouCH> It's a generalization that segregates others.
[13:56] <jussi> FaTHeRBaDTouCH: Its not respectful to others to use nicks that clearly offend, regardless of the intention.
[13:57] <FaTHeRBaDTouCH> Jus´si
[13:57] <FaTHeRBaDTouCH> n.	1.	A delicate fiber, produced in the Philippine Islands from an unidentified plant, of which dresses, etc., are made.
[13:57] <FaTHeRBaDTouCH> (Sorry side note)
[13:57] <FaTHeRBaDTouCH> jussi, It's not clear though.
[13:59] <jussi> FaTHeRBaDTouCH: its clear in the eyes of more than one operator. Once again, as oCean has mentioned, if you disagree with our decision, and have talked about it with us, please follow the appeals process.
[13:59] <FaTHeRBaDTouCH> I like how conversation involves the other walking out when they feel frustrated.
[14:00] <FaTHeRBaDTouCH> It's not a conversation if you don't do some back and forth. Instead all you've done is thrown the appeals process at me.
[14:01] <FaTHeRBaDTouCH> better?
[14:02] <jussi> FaTHeRBaDTouCH: Ive attempted to explain my point of view, as an operator.
[14:02] <FaTHeRBaDTouCH> Does my view seem unreasonable though jussi?
[14:03] <FaTHeRBaDTouCH> I don't know about you guys but my user list doesn't even show until I click the button down left.
[14:03] <FaTHeRBaDTouCH> And when someone is asking the channel for experienced users with Funambol, I doubt the thing I'm going to think of is what you have told me of.
[14:04] <FaTHeRBaDTouCH> I only talk in the channel when I have a problem. As you may have noted from trying to get ahold of me if you have for as long as you say you have,.
[14:04] <FaTHeRBaDTouCH> There is no vulgarity that I can see in my name.
[14:06] <Mooley> Better?
[14:06] <jussi> much
[14:06] <Mooley> Now may I return to #ubuntu
[14:06] <jussi> yes, thank you :)
[14:06] <jussi> let me remove the ban
[14:06] <Mooley> Too funny.
[14:07] <oCean> no, it's not funny
[14:07] <oCean> jussi, it's not better
[14:07] <Mooley> See....until someone says something, it's not offensive.
[14:07] <oCean> And you clearly understand what's going on
[14:08] <FaTHeRBaDTouCH> Yes, I understand you're overstepping your boundaries.
[14:08] <FaTHeRBaDTouCH> You're enforcing something you can't even stand by.
[14:09] <FaTHeRBaDTouCH> You're here to enforce OTHER's rules, NOT YOURS.
[14:09] <FaTHeRBaDTouCH> I've asked you to cite your reference point oCean.
[14:09] <FaTHeRBaDTouCH> You can't even pay me the respect of that.
[14:10] <FaTHeRBaDTouCH> BTW giving me the link to the rules, isn't citing your reference point WITHIN the document.
[14:11] <oCean> !guidelines > FaTHeRBaDTouCH
[14:12] <FaTHeRBaDTouCH> oCean, I've read them and I don't know which one you're referencing.
[14:12] <FaTHeRBaDTouCH> PLEASE HELP ME UNDERSTAND THE WRONG DOING YOU ARE ACUSSING ME OF
[14:12] <oCean> in the guidelines it clearly states "Please be considerate of everyone". We also recognize that it is not alway clear nor the same to everyone. There's where the operators come in
[14:12] <oCean> If you disagree, well by now you know what to do
[14:12] <FaTHeRBaDTouCH> Where does it say that oCean?
[14:13] <FaTHeRBaDTouCH> Please copy and paste it for me.
[14:13] <FaTHeRBaDTouCH> Then I can search it on my end.
[14:13] <oCean> In the Language and Subject paragraph
[14:14] <oCean> also, in the freenode network policy it states: In accordance with UK law freenode and the PDPC have no tolerance for any activity which could be construed as incitement to religious hatred
[14:16] <FaTHeRBaDTouCH> No no, you misunderstand.... it's Father "BaDToucH" not "I think priests are rapists"
[14:17] <FaTHeRBaDTouCH> "whose tolerances of language and subject choice vary equally as much" so why is my tolerance not being accepted?
[14:18] <oCean> If we can misunderstand, so can and will others. We want/need to prevent that. That's really the last thing I'm going to say about this
[14:18] <FaTHeRBaDTouCH> oCean, "Some examples of touchy subjects are war, race, religion, politics, gender, sexuality, drugs, potentially illegal activities and suicide. Discussions on these subjects regularly upset people, so please be aware and drop a discussion if you are asked." please drop your religious aspect of this as per the rules.
[14:19] <FaTHeRBaDTouCH> Now, without looking at this without any religion in the subject line, IS my name offensive?
[14:19] <Myrtti> yes
[14:19] <FaTHeRBaDTouCH> aw
[14:19] <FaTHeRBaDTouCH> Okay, may I ask, without the religion in the head, how can that be construed as offensive?
[14:20] <FaTHeRBaDTouCH> Bearing in mind that religious views are to be stayed away from.
[14:20] <FaTHeRBaDTouCH> According to the rules.
[14:21] <FaTHeRBaDTouCH> oCean, you pointed...er..your bot pointed me to this channel to talk about it. I can't talk if you keep shutting me out.
[14:22] <FaTHeRBaDTouCH> It's okay to say there is grey area with the rules you enforce.
[14:23] <FaTHeRBaDTouCH> Well, not really, they SHOULD be black and white.
[14:23] <FaTHeRBaDTouCH> And if they're black and white, you can't approach me with religion in mind.
[14:23] <FaTHeRBaDTouCH> And if you can't approach me with religion in mind, I'm nothing more than three words.
[14:23] <FaTHeRBaDTouCH> Father
[14:24] <FaTHeRBaDTouCH> Bad
[14:24] <FaTHeRBaDTouCH> Touch
[14:24] <FaTHeRBaDTouCH> BTW, those quotes were from the "Language and Subject" paragraph.
[14:28] <FaTHeRBaDTouCH> oCean, you said "If we can misunderstand, so can and will others." but I think If I find nothing wrong with my name, so do others.
[14:29] <FaTHeRBaDTouCH> I mean...there are others that dont find it offensive and can't even fathom why you would.
[14:29] <topyli> FaTHeRBaDTouCH: just so there's no misunderstanding, i would never allow even you to use ubuntu channels with your current, or previous, nick. please do not try and appeal to your "rights" or "freedom of speech". on irc, there are none
[14:30] <FaTHeRBaDTouCH> Saying that though says then that there are no rules to enforce.
[14:30] <topyli> if you want to use our channels, you follow the rules. that goes for every service in existence, and it's not negotiable
[14:30] <FaTHeRBaDTouCH> Meaning no need for mods.
[14:30] <FaTHeRBaDTouCH> topyli, can you got on record as saying there are no rights or freedom of speech on irc?
[14:30] <FaTHeRBaDTouCH> Coming from a mod, thats pretty scary
[14:30] <topyli> FaTHeRBaDTouCH: sure
[14:31] <Myrtti> he already did, this channel is logged
[14:31] <FaTHeRBaDTouCH> And you fellow moderators share his point in view then?
[14:31] <topyli> there is no free speech anywhere on the internet, your freedom depends on what the provider of the service allows you
[14:31] <Myrtti> historically ability to use IRC and IRC channels has been seen as a priviledge, not a right
[14:32] <FaTHeRBaDTouCH> Anybody can make a channel.
[14:32] <Myrtti> yup
[14:32] <Myrtti> and anybody, who has made a channel, can make rules of their own, by which the channel is governed
[14:32] <Myrtti> or give the rights to govern the channel to someone else
[14:32] <FaTHeRBaDTouCH> So why, when someone comes looking for nothing but help does he get persecuted and tossed out on his ass with NO history of trolling or anything of the such?
[14:33] <topyli> FaTHeRBaDTouCH: but if you create your channel on the freenode network, you agree to their terms of service
[14:33] <topyli> if you create your channel in the ubuntu namespace, you agree to ours
[14:33] <topyli> (in addition to the freenode rules)
[14:33] <FaTHeRBaDTouCH> What do you mean "ubuntu namespace"?
[14:34] <FaTHeRBaDTouCH> And local laws supercede anything written on either of those anyways.
[14:34] <topyli> ubuntu namespace is #ubuntu-*, #xubuntu-*, #kubuntu-*, and #ubuntuforums-*
[14:34] <FaTHeRBaDTouCH> oh...okay...
[14:34] <topyli> FaTHeRBaDTouCH: no they don't. you will be removed, plain and simple
[14:36] <FaTHeRBaDTouCH> Hey, you'll believe what you want, I guess.
[14:36] <FaTHeRBaDTouCH> I ask for citation and get nothing.
[14:36] <FaTHeRBaDTouCH> I am following the rules BTW topyli
[14:37] <FaTHeRBaDTouCH> I think you missed that when I was returning the favour and mentioning how the mods weren't following the rules.
[14:37] <FaTHeRBaDTouCH> I only asked if I'm going to be persecuted by the rules that those that persecute me follow them too.
[14:38] <FaTHeRBaDTouCH> As far as my interpretation is holding, I am following the rules.
[14:38] <topyli> you can cite me on that, there is basically no higher authority. i'm a member of the ubuntu irc council. we own the ubuntu irc channels, by delegation from the ubuntu community council. if you want, you can write email to irc-council@lists.ubuntu.com and complain
[14:39] <FaTHeRBaDTouCH> I'd probably go higher than your network if I were to do something like that.
[14:39] <FaTHeRBaDTouCH> I am going to toss a snipet of this though towards that guy I know at wired.
[14:39] <FaTHeRBaDTouCH> See how community really feels about you guys.
[14:39] <topyli> our network? freenode is not ubuntu's network. they provide a service for us
[14:39] <Myrtti> threats don't really go well with us
[14:39] <FaTHeRBaDTouCH> It's not a threat.
[14:39] <Myrtti> it sounds like one
[14:40] <FaTHeRBaDTouCH> It's only a threat if you have something to expose.
[14:40] <topyli> i'm pretty sure the folks at wired know how the internet works, and will either ignore you or laugh at your face. but you can try of course
[14:41] <FaTHeRBaDTouCH> hehe, I'm sure they'll listen to my plight. I've got no concerns about that.
[14:41] <FaTHeRBaDTouCH> What happens though if you're stripped of "mod" status for being wrong, would you even admit to it then?
[14:42] <popey> This is going nowhere.
[14:42] <FaTHeRBaDTouCH> You guys hide in a corner of the net that you think people care about.
[14:42] <topyli> if you have no immediate issue with our operators, such as trying to fix things in order to resume your privilege of using our channels, you might want to leave this channel. this channel is for resolving problems, not for arguments
[14:42] <topyli> write to the council if you feel mistreated
[14:42] <FBT> better?
[14:42] <Myrtti> a lot better
[14:43] <topyli> much
[14:43] <FBT> Can we continue the discussion?
[14:43] <FBT> I'm not trying to offend guys,.
[14:43] <FBT> To be honest, I'm quite lonely.
[14:43] <topyli> no. this is not a social chat channel
[14:43] <FBT> okay, can i go back to my quest for help?
[14:44] <topyli> what would you like us to help you with?
[14:44] <FBT> I was in #ubuntu looking for help with Funambol.
[14:45] <FBT> I need the ban lifted first...
[14:45] <topyli> ok, talk to the operator who banned you and maybe you can convince them to remove the ban
[14:45] <FBT> I changed the name, issue fixed.
[14:46] <FBT> No need to continue with the ban.
[14:46] <popey> After wasting the time of numerous operators for over an hour.
[14:46] <FBT> They chose to engage in conversation.
[14:46] <popey> I'd recommend you ask your funambol based query and leave this channel.
[14:46] <FBT> Just like you did now.
[14:47] <popey> I'm not interested in a conversation with you.
[14:47] <popey> You are well aware of the appeals procedure.
[14:47] <FBT> Is there something saying I can't be here?
[14:47] <popey> yes
[14:47] <popey> the /topic
[14:47] <FBT> Doesn't say I can be here. I'm now only responding to your engagement.
[14:47] <popey> You can leave now.
[14:47] <FBT> But there is no law stating I need to.
[14:48] <Myrtti> oh come on
[14:48] <Myrtti> | Please exit the channel  once your issue is dealt with. | We reserve the right to remove idlers | Channel is logged at  irclogs.ubuntu.com
[14:48] <FBT> Thats what I mean.
[14:48] <topyli> FBT: stop that nonsense
[14:48] <Myrtti> that is in the topic
[14:49] <FBT> I'm still discussing the ban since it's still in effect.
[14:49] <FBT> .
[14:50] <popey> You appear to be in #ubuntu right now.
[14:51] <popey> Why don't you ask your funambol based question there
 .
[14:51] <FBT> --- #ubuntu :Cannot send to channel
[14:51] <FBT> becasue the ban hasen't been removed after my complaince
[14:52] <popey> Ok.
 Are there ANY users with experience with Funambol?
[14:52] <FBT> --- #ubuntu :Cannot send to channel
[14:53] <Myrtti> so...
[14:54] <FBT> oCean, even though I don't fully understand your point of view, at request of the numerous supports you have, I have changed it to comply with your request. Please reinstate my ability to seek help in #ubuntu
[14:54] <Myrtti> I can lift the ban with knowing two things
[14:54] <FBT> so whois me
[14:54] <Myrtti> 1) you will not change back to either of the two nicknames you've had on this channel
[14:55] <FBT> knowing of course that I will refrain from using the full name in channel
[14:55] <Myrtti> 2) you will understand that if you fail with 1), the ban will go back and getting rid of it will be more difficult
[14:55] <FBT> I will try not to. I've changed the settings in xirc so it shouldn't log in under anything other than FBT on freenode.
[14:56] <FBT> Please understand though that I do use this name on a whole bunch of places.
[14:57] <topyli> FBT: that's fine. but on ubuntu channels, you don't "try to" abide by our terms of service. you either do, or you will be removed. it's quite simple really
[14:57] <FBT> I'm abiding by the terms of service from my service provider.
[14:58] <FBT> Like you said, it's those guys that count.
[14:58] <topyli> nice to know that you have no quarrel with them
[14:58] <FBT> Technically it's my ISP.
[14:59] <FBT> but thats something else.
[14:59] <topyli> you forget however that freenode also provides a service, and you have to abide by their terms. furthermore, when using the ubuntu channels, you also agree to our additional terms
[15:00] <FBT> I can't argue here. if you'd like to continue this conversation though, come see me on Quakenet in the channel #daisy
[15:04] <topyli> FBT: anything else? if not, please part this channel
[15:05] <FBT> Sorry I meant to depart, something more important/interesting came up
[15:14] <Myrtti> I thought he was using xirc :-P
[15:25] <Tm_T> indeed
[19:32] <jrib> uh huh
[19:40] <Myrtti> HOW ABOUT NO
[19:42] <jrib> hello nyuszika7h, I am glad someone finally appreciates me.  I will spare you when I take over the world (unlike the ops who always take me for granted).  What's your favorite movie?
[19:43] <Myrtti> I know a song
[19:43] <jrib> go on...
[19:44] <Myrtti> My instructor was Mr. Simpson, and he taught me a song. If you'd like to hear it I can sing it for you.
[19:44] <Myrtti> It's called Daisy
[19:45] <Myrtti> Daisy, Daisy, give me your answer do. I'm half crazy all for the love of you. It won't be a stylish marriage, I can't afford a carriage. But you'll look sweet upon the seat of a bicycle built for two...
[19:45] <Myrtti> no bonus points for whoever guesses from what movie that is a quote from
[19:45] <Myrtti> it's too easy guess
[19:46] <topyli> yeah no bonus
[19:46] <Myrtti> you should *know*
[19:48]  * jrib just learned the definition of "factoid": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Factoid
[19:55] <topyli> i didn't know it's such a new word
 Is gnome-shell preinstalled in 11.10 now   <--- he means gnome3 surely
[21:39] <oCean> at least he knows how to apologize these days :)
[21:39] <topyli> i'm pretty sure gnome-shell is in universe, not installed by default
[21:39] <bazhang> hehe
[21:39] <topyli> oh nice, he's behaving
[21:52] <bazhang> so much for behaving
[21:52] <oCean> here we go again?
[21:52] <oCean> that's just too sad
 i do my thing you do yours
[21:52] <bazhang> NOT the way it works
[21:53] <LjL> yours being banning him
[21:53] <bazhang> and ban dodging right away
[21:53] <LarsTorben> hello unfortunately i have to complain about bazhang
[21:54] <LarsTorben> where is the council ?
[21:54] <bazhang> LarsTorben, you were asked to stop
[21:54] <LarsTorben> bazhang: i do not read any question because i was away
[21:54] <LarsTorben> i talked to council, solved all problems
[21:54] <bazhang> okay then, I step aside.
[21:54] <LarsTorben> he told me, if i have problem with you, i should go to him
[21:55] <bazhang> * LarsTorben (579066f7@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.144.102.247) has joined #ubuntu
[21:55] <bazhang> and ban dodging even again now
[21:55] <LarsTorben> no i was not banned by now
[21:56] <LarsTorben> and the council said its okay
[21:56] <LarsTorben> i talked to him
[21:56] <topyli> LarsTorben: you didn't
[21:56] <Tm_T> LarsTorben: you are banned now, so any joining to #ubuntu until ban is removed is ban evasion
[21:56] <topyli> and we didn't
[21:57] <LarsTorben> the ban is not correct, and the council said so too
[21:57] <topyli> LarsTorben: not true. the council hasn't even heard from you
[21:58] <LarsTorben> he has
[21:58] <LarsTorben> i talked to him
[21:58] <Tm_T> to who?
[21:58] <oCean> topyli: I guess lars is referring to your talk with him
[21:58] <LarsTorben> yes
[21:58] <LarsTorben> i do not know his name but if you tell me all names i will pick the right
[21:59] <topyli> i talked to lars yesterday or the day before. a) i am not the 'council', i talked to lars as a private person giving some advice, and b) i did not by any manner give lars a permission to continue disrupting ubuntu channes but quite the contrary
[21:59] <LarsTorben> no no
[21:59] <LarsTorben> it was a council
[22:00] <LjL> you're making stuff up
[22:00] <oCean> LarsTorben: I think I know what you mean
[22:00] <Myrtti> right
[22:00] <LarsTorben> i have a log here
[22:00] <Flannel> LarsTorben: Please check your records and let us know which council.
[22:00] <LarsTorben> i do not know which council
[22:00] <oCean> topyli started the conversation with "hi lars. i'm one of the members of the ubuntu irc council."
[22:00] <LarsTorben> yes!!!
[22:00] <oCean> So I can see where this comes from
[22:00] <LarsTorben> and what does topli say now.
[22:00] <LarsTorben> a) i am not the 'council'
[22:00] <LarsTorben> is it a lie ?
[22:01] <LjL> jno
[22:01] <LjL> no
[22:01] <LjL> he's not "the council"
[22:01] <LjL> he's one member of it
[22:01] <LjL> he's also a private person
[22:01] <LarsTorben> yes
[22:01] <oCean> LarsTorben: there might be a little confusion, maybe due to language barriers
[22:01] <LarsTorben> maybe
[22:01] <LarsTorben> for me it sounds like a lie
[22:01] <LarsTorben> okay
[22:01] <oCean> LarsTorben: topyli just wanted to let you know that "a member of council" does not mean "the council"
[22:01] <topyli> LarsTorben: i think i made it pretty clear to you that we're short on warnings
[22:02] <LarsTorben> and i do not know why banned now
[22:02] <LarsTorben> because i told !repeat because he said "help me"
[22:02] <LarsTorben> and i think he should wait
[22:02] <LarsTorben> xD
[22:02] <oCean> LarsTorben: hang on, THAT is not the reason why you were removed.
[22:03] <LarsTorben> ok but why ?
[22:03] <LjL> LarsTorben: if an op tells you to stop something, you stop. you don't say "i do my thing you do yours".
[22:03] <LjL> that's *probably* why you were banned.
[22:03] <oCean> ^that
[22:03] <LarsTorben> yes but i am not your slave!
[22:03] <oCean> LarsTorben: you have to understand that you cannot talk to others that way
[22:03] <LjL> if you were our slave, you'd HAVE to be in #ubuntu and obey us
[22:03] <topyli> LarsTorben: you're also not in #ubuntu
[22:03] <LjL> but the thing is, you don't HAVE to be in #ubuntu
[22:03] <LarsTorben> i think sometimes you exaggerate
[22:03] <LjL> if you ARE in #ubuntu, then you are to play by the rules set here
[22:04] <LjL> maybe Lars
[22:04] <LjL> but as topyli says, you're short on warnings
[22:04] <LarsTorben> a warning is okay but always you have to curse
[22:04] <LjL> who cursed?
[22:04] <LjL> cursing = bad language
[22:04] <LarsTorben> shit wrong translation
[22:05] <LjL> well ok i think i got what you meant anyway
[22:05] <LarsTorben> exhort or so
[22:05] <oCean> LarsTorben: easy, calm down. We can discuss this normally
[22:05] <LjL> but the thing is, you WOULD have got just a warning if you were someone else
[22:05] <LjL> but you're LarsTorben, and you're short on warnings
[22:05] <LjL> do you understand that?
[22:05] <LarsTorben> yes, you are right and i aCCEPT that
[22:06] <LarsTorben> My person is fastly getting overreact
[22:07] <LjL> LarsTorben, let's look for a minute at what caused the incident:
[22:07] <LjL> someone asked a long and detailed question
[22:07] <LjL> they only made the mistake of saying "can anyone help?" just after
[22:07] <LjL> do you think that warrants a warning?
[22:07] <LarsTorben> normally not but
[22:08] <LarsTorben> i always would be telled to if i ask help me
[22:08] <LarsTorben> so i did so too
[22:08] <LjL> LarsTorben: so it's like a revenge? you understand that people who aren't banned every 2 minutes don't get warned like that, yet you do it yourself? - well, that can be a problem
[22:08] <LarsTorben> okay well i think a dispute is wrong now but i have to say
[22:08] <LjL> LarsTorben: you need to realize that there is a difference between someone who makes a small mistake once, and someone who has been banned several times
[22:09] <LarsTorben> if i would be warned i fastly get angry
[22:09] <LarsTorben> for the first moment i overreact
[22:09] <LjL> LarsTorben: well, a bit of advice then... why don't you react in private with the person who warned you? (bazhang in this case)
[22:09] <LjL> /msg bazhang hey, i think that "stop" wasn't deserved
[22:10] <LjL> instead of creating an issue *in the channel*
[22:10] <LarsTorben> yes that would be better, but i do not really trust because in the linuxmint channels pms are stricly forbidden
[22:10] <LjL> either in private, or here in #ubuntu-ops if you think it's very serious
[22:10] <LarsTorben> good to know
[22:10] <LjL> LarsTorben: you can always PM the ops here
[22:10] <LjL> LarsTorben: just don't PM random people
[22:10] <LarsTorben> xD
[22:10] <LarsTorben> than you
[22:10] <LarsTorben> k
[22:11] <LarsTorben> how do we solve the problem now ? can i come back now ? or in a week ?
[22:11] <topyli> true, you can always pm the ubuntu ops or freenode staff. that's what they're here for
[22:11] <LjL> LarsTorben: if i unban you know, will you promise me you will at least *try* to be a little less short-tempered?
[22:11] <LarsTorben> ok very good
[22:11] <topyli> they're not here to haunt you, there are here for your service
[22:11] <LarsTorben> yes i will promis
[22:12] <LjL> LarsTorben: please realize that i'm taking some fair bit of responsibility by removing a ban that was set just a few minutes ago
[22:12] <LjL> LarsTorben: don't make me feel like an idiot later :(
[22:12] <LarsTorben> yes i noticed and i noticed that a problem can be discussed peacefully
[22:13] <oCean> Indeed, that's nice to know! :)
[22:13] <LarsTorben> thank yoz
[22:13] <LarsTorben> u
[22:13] <topyli> nice, hope it works
[22:14] <oCean> LjL: nice job
[22:18] <LjL> @mark #ubuntu-ops LarsTorben Bans removed, fingers crossed
[22:33] <topyli> !away > csdserver|afk
[22:35] <LarsT> hello
[22:35] <rww> hi
[22:35]  * LarsT wants to know if there is still a mute on me (larst) hehe
[22:35] <LarsT> e
[22:35] <rww> no.
[22:35] <LarsT> ok thanks
[22:35] <LjL> no, we can see what you type now
[22:37]  * rww hands jrib an opsnack, btw
[22:52] <topyli> !opsnack
[22:53] <knome> what flavor ice cream?
[22:53] <Flannel> knome: Ice cream flavored ice cream.
[22:53] <topyli> i'm pretty sure you get to choose
[22:54] <rww> as long as you don't choose neopolitan and then eat all of one flavour and leave the other two
[22:54] <knome> hmm. is there any garlic-flavored?
[22:54] <Flannel> knome: only on iron chef.  Next to the salmon ice cream and the shellfish ice cream.
[22:55] <knome> there's some in a restaurant in helsinki too
[22:55] <Flannel> Oh, and I'm sure whereever the Garlic capital of the world is, they have garlic ice cream at their county fair.
[22:55] <knome> it's a garlic-specialized restaurant
[22:55] <topyli> knome: you should go to the "garlic night" festival in oulu
[22:55] <topyli> they have garlic *everything*, including ice cream
[22:55] <knome> topyli, my parents were one of the founding members of the "valkosipuliyhdistys" :)
[22:56] <topyli> ahh :)
[22:56] <rww> that isn't a word. stop pretending it is :(
[22:56] <knome> so yeah.. i've had garlic ice cream once. i'm told i liked it, but i can't remember the taste myself
[22:56] <Flannel> knome: sorry, looks like you sneezed and hit your keyboard a bit there, what were you trying to say?
[22:56] <Flannel> It probably tastes like.... garlic.
[22:57] <knome> or allium sativum
[22:57] <knome> ;)
[22:57] <topyli> garlic in finnish is 'valkosipuli' or 'white onion' for some reason. 'valkosipuliyhdistys' is something like 'association for the advancement of garlic'
[22:58] <knome> topyli, well, the normal onion is "keltasipuli", "yellow onion"
[22:58] <topyli> yeah
[22:58] <knome> we actually discussed that weird naming a few days ago
[22:59] <knome> didn't come to any conclusion :(
[22:59] <topyli> heh
[23:03] <topyli> i tasted garlic beer in oulu's garlic night once. it was a decent ale with garlic added, pretty interesting
[23:04] <topyli> they had garlic lager too, but that seemed a bit lame
[23:05] <topyli> haven't seen that ale in mass production and sold in stores though :)
[23:05]  * rww nudges towards -offtopic
[23:05] <knome> nuggets?
[23:05] <rww> mainly because you're smelling up the channel with your breath :(
[23:06] <knome> oh, i though it was the farts
[23:06] <knome> +t