[17:00] <astraljava> #startmeeting
[17:00] <MootBot> Meeting started at 12:00. The chair is astraljava.
[17:00] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[17:00] <astraljava> Hi guys, who's with me?
[17:00] <scott-upstairs> present
[17:01] <astraljava> Let's give it a minute, for others to join (if any)
[17:01] <astraljava> Meanwhile, whoever's here can take one last look at the agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Meetings/2011August7
[17:02] <ailo> I'm here
[17:03] <scott-upstairs> heh, not much on the agenda
[17:03] <astraljava> No, not really. Alright, we're on.
[17:03] <astraljava> [TOPIC] Old business
[17:03] <MootBot> New Topic:  Old business
[17:04] <astraljava> We have on our plates the move to have Xubuntu as the foundation.
[17:04] <ailo> How's that coming along? I haven't tried installing yet.
[17:04] <astraljava> We've been working on the desktop seed to accommodate a working desktop, but that still retains the workflow.
[17:05] <astraljava> It's not working, as the updated seed isn't there to spin the disk on.
[17:05] <scott-upstairs> i haven't asked luke to push the changes since we made the additional changes, astraljava
[17:05] <astraljava> I've been asking feedback on the changes.
[17:05] <astraljava> But haven't gotten much.
[17:05] <astraljava> scott-upstairs: Are we ready to go with that, then?
[17:05] <scott-upstairs> astraljava, i think so, i just haven't bugged luke about it
[17:06] <astraljava> Okay, well I'll do that after the meeting, if it's alright with everybody?
[17:06] <scott-upstairs> astraljava, it's good with me
[17:07] <astraljava> [ACTION] astraljava  to ask Luke to update seeds
[17:07] <MootBot> ACTION received:  astraljava  to ask Luke to update seeds
[17:07] <astraljava> Another thing is testing documentation. It's on me too, but I haven't had time for that. I'll get on it during the beginning week, though.
[17:08] <astraljava> I'm participating in Xubuntu testing, so I have experience and access to their docs and workflows.
[17:08] <astraljava> [ACTION] astraljava to work on testing documentation
[17:08] <MootBot> ACTION received:  astraljava to work on testing documentation
[17:08] <astraljava> Ok, what else is old?
[17:09] <ailo> UbuntuStudio Documentation, US-controls..
[17:09] <ailo> Testing script
[17:09] <astraljava> Right, let's just with plain documentation. How's that going, and is anyone responsible for it in the first place?
[17:09] <ailo> Those were some things I was supposed to work on, but not much has happened. Though, I'm sure we can at least have a good solid, though simple documentation ready for the release
[17:10] <astraljava> ailo: Can you still be tasked with those? I can take the script as it kinda goes with the other testing-related issues.
[17:10] <astraljava> And it doesn't mean you have to do everything by yourself. It's just good to have someone driving the issue.
[17:10] <scott-upstairs> i had committed to helping with documentation as well
[17:11] <ailo> I will definitely want to finish the documentation together with ScottL
[17:11] <scott-upstairs> but before we begin the documentation proper we still  needed to come to an understanding about direction
[17:11] <astraljava> Okay, so can we discuss that right now? We've only got 2 months till the release.
[17:12] <astraljava> [ACTION] ailo and astraljava to work on the testing script
[17:12] <MootBot> ACTION received:  ailo and astraljava to work on the testing script
[17:13] <scott-upstairs> i want to caution us from being too ambitious
[17:13] <ailo> I have some good ideas on the documentation, that are very sketchy at the moment
[17:13] <scott-upstairs> i mean in terms of quantity of tasks, i think we have historically taken on too many different tasks and accomplished very little
[17:14] <astraljava> I agree with Scott, we should have like a minimal set that needs to be done prior the release. Documentation is an on-going business, as a whole.
[17:14] <ailo> So, we do one thing at the time?
[17:14] <astraljava> scott-upstairs: Oh, you meant the whole thing? Well, yes. We sadly don't have that many contributors at the moment.
[17:14] <scott-upstairs> no, no
[17:14] <scott-upstairs> i meant that individually we tend to overburden ourselves
[17:15] <scott-upstairs> i have 8 things i'm doing right now supposedly and completing none
[17:15] <astraljava> I think we're all there. :)
[17:16] <astraljava> But let's see; testing documentation (possibly including the script), general docs, -controls.
[17:17] <astraljava> That's not too much, on top of the migration to Xubuntu as the base.
[17:17] <scott-upstairs> i would think that if ailo and i can agree on a framework for documentation then i can start on it,
[17:17] <ailo> Since I've been so late in starting developing us-controls, I don't think it will be an easy task to complete it for this release.
[17:17] <scott-upstairs> while he moves onto the -controls
[17:17] <scott-upstairs> heh, nevermind ;)
[17:17] <astraljava> ailo: Ok, we can take that out, then.
[17:17] <ailo> btw, do we have a deadline for it, when it needs to be finished?
[17:18] <scott-upstairs> the documentation?
[17:18] <scott-upstairs> or -controls
[17:18] <ailo> yea, -controls
[17:18] <astraljava> ailo: Basically, next week. That's when the feature freeze kicks in. We could get an exception, but really, we can just push it a release.
[17:18] <scott-upstairs> not really, the package has been removed form the seeds i beleive
[17:19] <ailo> So, no exeption?
[17:19] <ailo> I think it's not realistic to have it finished by the time for Oneiric
[17:19] <astraljava> Might be best not to. There's gonna be enough work on the seeds as it is.
[17:19] <scott-upstairs> i would rather not rush it
[17:19] <scott-upstairs> let's do it right and test it well
[17:20] <astraljava> Good, reached consensus, then.
[17:20] <astraljava> [ACTION] Move -controls to the next release
[17:20] <MootBot> ACTION received:  Move -controls to the next release
[17:21] <scott-upstairs> for the xfce transition, we really still need to do some good testing of the daily image
[17:21] <scott-upstairs> i fear there were other issues that was causing the image to be uninstallable
[17:21] <scott-upstairs> i had troubles
[17:21] <astraljava> Absolutely. I will get that underway starting tomorrow.
[17:21] <scott-upstairs> rlamerio had troubles as well
[17:22] <astraljava> [ACTION] astraljava to look into cdimage issues
[17:22] <MootBot> ACTION received:  astraljava to look into cdimage issues
[17:22] <astraljava> If you have some logs from the failed installations, please send them to me.
[17:22] <astraljava> I'll document this on the testing docs, though.
[17:23] <astraljava> So you don't have to guess which ones etc.
[17:23] <scott-upstairs> i do not have them anymore
[17:23] <astraljava> That's okay, but from now on.
[17:23] <scott-upstairs> by the way, getting logs from an installation would be a good page for the documentation
[17:23] <astraljava> Yep, that's what I was trying to refer to, just above. :)
[17:24] <astraljava> Okay, so still about the general docs, are we going through that now, or will you discuss it outside the meeting?
[17:24] <ailo> I think it's better I present what I have done outside of the meeting, and we work on that
[17:25] <astraljava> Is this ok with scott-upstairs ?
[17:25] <scott-upstairs> i have a generalized list of how i thought the documentaton should go
[17:25] <ailo> I have used ScottL's work as reference as well
[17:25] <scott-upstairs> hold on...
[17:26] <scott-upstairs> here is a link: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/IntroTutVideos
[17:26] <scott-upstairs> astraljava, ^^^
[17:26]  * astraljava looks
[17:27] <astraljava> IMHO, that's got a really good structure.
[17:27] <ailo> It's pretty much the same as what I have been doing
[17:28] <scott-upstairs> my thought was that once we had the basic structure then we could each turn loose on make the pages
[17:28] <scott-upstairs> we could pick the ones we wanted or organize which to do
[17:28] <ailo> The introduction part seems like your bit, scott-upstairs
[17:28] <astraljava> Sounds good to me. Hopefully, we'll get others to join in as well.
[17:29] <ailo> I may have some opinions on the structure as a whole
[17:30] <scott-upstairs> ailo, certainly
[17:30] <ailo> holstein was interested in helping out
[17:31] <ailo> I would say his area of expertise is using it for audio tasks
[17:31] <ailo> Using US, that is
[17:31] <astraljava> True, we'd need more of those anyway.
[17:32] <scott-upstairs> i'm not sure holstein will want to be involved in the structure too much, but i think he will add pages
[17:32] <astraljava> Yeah, it's better to chop it to pieces that other people can handle, and you guys keep the reins on the whole.
[17:33] <astraljava> Okay, well, you two work on the structure more outside the meeting, then.
[17:33] <astraljava> Can we move on, now?
[17:33] <astraljava> [ACTION] ailo and scott-upstairs to work on the documentation structure
[17:33] <scott-upstairs> sure :)
[17:33] <MootBot> ACTION received:  ailo and scott-upstairs to work on the documentation structure
[17:34] <astraljava> Is there any other old business, still?
[17:34] <astraljava> I suppose not.
[17:34] <astraljava> [TOPIC] Updates
[17:34] <MootBot> New Topic:  Updates
[17:35] <astraljava> Did we release Alpha-3 at all?
[17:35] <astraljava> I'm sorry to say this one slipped past me, unfortunately.
[17:35] <scott-upstairs> yes, sort of
[17:36] <scott-upstairs> i talked to skaet about not releasing it official, i.e. not publishing it on the QA website, but i think it happened anyways
[17:36] <scott-upstairs> i was too late i think
[17:36] <astraljava> Ok.
[17:36] <astraljava> Well, we'll have to work much harder for beta, cause it's a bit sad that people interested in the devel release cannot depend on us now.
[17:37] <astraljava> Beta is 3 weeks in, so we've got some time, fortunately.
[17:38] <astraljava> So, if possible, please do download dailies, and try to test them.
[17:38] <astraljava> In the coming testing documents, I'll try to arrange something centralized so that we can track the progress.
[17:38] <scott-upstairs> i'm disappointed that we don't have more help doing this
[17:38]  * astraljava is too
[17:38] <scott-upstairs> i wonder if our user's are just not motiviated to help
[17:38] <astraljava> We're in a bad state at the moment.
[17:38] <scott-upstairs> or is it something we can do better
[17:39] <scott-upstairs> astraljava, i agree
[17:39] <scott-upstairs> it was pretty bad when i got involved and i wonder if this just isn't a band aid
[17:39] <astraljava> I would imagine, come a decent release with Xubuntu as the base, we could gain more popularity and newly-found respect, though.
[17:39] <astraljava> scott-upstairs: I think there are just coincidences, people getting other commitments and such.
[17:40] <astraljava> If we can just work a little harder, who we have now, and manage to build a solid release, I'm fairly confident there will be new contributors too.
[17:41] <astraljava> Plus, the new bond with the Xubuntu devel people, will help us in a way.
[17:41] <astraljava> I think it's easier to get in touch with them, as it was with the vanilla devel people.
[17:42] <astraljava> But that could be just a misunderstanding.
[17:42] <astraljava> I wasn't too involved with the foundations before the switch.
[17:42] <astraljava> Okay, are there other updates?
[17:43] <astraljava> Oh, we got mudita24 since the last meeting.
[17:43] <astraljava> Must check it gets to the updated seeds.
[17:43] <astraljava> Okay, moving on.
[17:43] <astraljava> [TOPIC] Any Other Business
[17:43] <MootBot> New Topic:  Any Other Business
[17:44] <astraljava> Your chance to voice anything that's bugging your mind.
[17:44] <scott-upstairs> astraljava, you might then update the seeds to include mudita24 before talking to luke
[17:44] <astraljava> scott-upstairs: Yes, I'll do that.
[17:44] <astraljava> [ACTION] astraljava to update the sound seed to include mudita24
[17:44] <MootBot> ACTION received:  astraljava to update the sound seed to include mudita24
[17:45] <scott-upstairs> right, i've got something to say
[17:45] <scott-upstairs> i'm at a point where i'm feeling overwhelmed, this isn't fun anymore, and i don't feel like i'm effective
[17:46] <scott-upstairs> i committed to staying until the end of this cycle, but i don't know what will happen after that
[17:47] <scott-upstairs> a variety of things could happen, i could step down as lead but still help on a limited scale
[17:47] <scott-upstairs> it's possible that i need to take a break completely away for a cycle or two
[17:47] <scott-upstairs> i don't know
[17:47] <astraljava> Understandable. You've had your fair share of awesomeness, and I'm sure it's quite tiring.
[17:48] <astraljava> Do you think you will reach a decision by October's meeting?
[17:48] <ailo> Who could be able to fill scott-upstairs shoes?
[17:48] <astraljava> ailo: Not many, but someone's gotta try.
[17:49] <scott-upstairs> astraljava, i don't know, but my feeling currently is that i need to step down but commit to a subset of tasks
[17:49] <scott-upstairs> like testing and documentation
[17:50] <astraljava> scott-upstairs: Well, we're gonna have to discuss that on October's meeting anyway, as the new cycle begins not after that anyhow.
[17:50] <astraljava> Don't take it the wrong way, though. I'm not putting any pressure on you.
[17:50] <astraljava> But I will totally support you in your decision, and if no-one else shows up, will volunteer for the position, if accepted.
[17:51] <scott-upstairs> ack
[17:53] <astraljava> You've done a terrific job, I must say.
[17:53] <scott-upstairs> heh, thank you
[17:53] <astraljava> It's just unfortunate the time was so challenging.
[17:53] <ailo> I agree
[17:53] <astraljava> It must have burnt you sooner than expected.
[17:53] <ailo> Maybe scott-upstairs has a good point in that the tasks for US should be minimized
[17:53] <scott-upstairs> that may be very true
[17:54] <scott-upstairs> ailo, i think that is very large issue
[17:55] <astraljava> Okay, well, we'll discuss the leadership issue in October's meeting the latest.
[17:55] <astraljava> scott-upstairs: Feel free to add it on September's agenda, if you reach a decision sooner than that.
[17:55] <astraljava> Is there still any other business?
[17:57] <astraljava> Right, moving on, then.
[17:57] <astraljava> [TOPIC] Next Meeting Time/Location
[17:57] <MootBot> New Topic:  Next Meeting Time/Location
[17:57] <astraljava> As per the procedure, we'll gather together again the first Sunday of the new month.
[17:57] <astraljava> That makes it the 4th of September.
[17:58] <scott-upstairs> sounds good
[17:58] <astraljava> It's already in the calendar.
[17:58] <astraljava> [LINK] http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars/
[17:58] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars/
[17:58] <astraljava> 1700 UTC is good for everybody?
[17:59] <ailo> Yep
[17:59] <astraljava> Scott?
[17:59] <scott-upstairs> sure
[18:00] <astraljava> Great, so the next meeting is on 4th of Sept., 1700 UTC, @ #ubuntu-meeting.
[18:00] <astraljava> [TOPIC] Next Meeting Chair
[18:00] <MootBot> New Topic:  Next Meeting Chair
[18:00] <astraljava> It's a good idea to keep rotating the chair.
[18:00] <astraljava> But, given we're a very limited bunch at the moment, are there volunteers for this?
[18:01] <ailo> Nope ;)
[18:01] <astraljava> holstein has done it previously, as well as Scott, but are there other takers?
[18:01] <astraljava> ailo: Noted. :)
[18:02] <astraljava> Okay, well, I can do it again the next time, and holstein can take it over if he feels like it.
[18:02] <scott-upstairs> sorry guys but i need to go...talk to you later
[18:02] <astraljava> [ACTION] astraljava to chair next meeting
[18:02] <MootBot> ACTION received:  astraljava to chair next meeting
[18:02] <astraljava> Right, I guess that concludes our meeting for tonight.
[18:03] <astraljava> Thanks for the participants for keeping Ubuntu Studio afloat! :)
[18:03] <astraljava> #endmeeting
[18:03] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 13:03.