[00:12] but for some things a desktop still is the way to go, dealing with video for one [00:15] yeah, at that point you get to specialist in some hardware [00:15] and that isn't something many do mobile [00:15] some do, but not many [00:18] it gets very expensive mobile to do it [00:25] it easily could, depends on exactly how far you go with it [00:25] and if you do it for a living, an extra paycheck or two for being mobile can pay for the difference [00:26] yep that is true, i'm downloading the latest oneric or however you spell it cyberanger :) [00:36] have fun with that [00:36] I've pretty much moved to debian testing now [00:37] still some ubuntu, but the difference at this point is only visiable in one file [00:37] well like to take a look but in a VM [00:37] /etc/apt/sources.list [00:37] :) [00:38] cyberanger: I would really like to like debain, if i had servers that mattered it would run debian but on desktop just not that great for me [00:40] wrst: for a person favoring gnome3 over unity, I'm suprised to hear you say that [00:41] cyberanger: well its just more effort to get debian going for me, and arch is really pretty simple [00:41] but since you said that cyberanger off i go to try debian testing ina VM [00:41] I think it's easier than you'd think [00:42] I however, go a little out of may way on the howto step by step's [00:42] lock the doors tighter, automate some things further, others I remove the automation [00:42] make them human iniated only [00:43] well downloading the netinstall image [00:43] cyberanger: and this will never need to be "upgraded" pretty much a rolling release? [00:44] that's a reasonable choice, I usually don't do that (since I like having offline capability, or install on celluar cards, and netinst leaves out ppp support) [00:45] in a VM figured this should be good, [00:45] it can be, change /etc/apt/sources.list from wheezy to testing [00:45] oh yeah [00:45] and in alot of my cases, it is for me [00:45] i thought wheezy was testing? [00:45] yes, but squeeze was testing, but testing stays testing [00:46] symlink [00:46] (and the installer you grabbed you need to check it was testing and not stable) [00:46] gothcha and wheezy will become stable when its the new stable [00:46] yep [00:46] well with debian that may be 5 years so i have time ;) [00:47] codenames, just like oneric or whatnot is alpha or beta now, but will be a stable release (only ubuntu has no offical unstable & testing branch) [00:48] gotcha like mandriva has cooker and if you stay on cooker you always get the new stuff [00:52] cooker being unstable, like sid, or like 'testing' which for the moment is wheezy [00:53] testing [00:53] but yeah, you have the idea, 'testing' never moves, all the safe but untested stuff leaves sid for testing [00:53] and testing gets a codename, to prepare for the next stable, like ubuntu has oneric now [00:53] so sid is untested? [00:54] unstable, actually [00:54] but yeah, to compare to wheezy, sid isn't tested [00:54] gotcha, arch has a testing repo... and well its I think you could say unstable [00:54] it works, but it's raw code pretty much [00:54] so goes from sid, then to wheezy? [00:55] or unstable to testing? [00:55] somebody made it, goes there, works or not (usually it works, just not tested for conflicts with something else) [00:55] testing (atm wheezy, but testing will be something else soon enough) plucks stuff from sid [00:56] not an outright freeze [00:56] hmm cyberanger i have kernel options 486, 686-pae [00:56] then testing (under it's codename) goes in a development range, and the codename status changes to stable [00:57] wrst: did you enable pae in virtualbox settings? [00:57] physical address extensions [00:57] no i didn't and i'm not over 4GB even on the host machine [00:57] yes just curious 486 vs. 686? [00:57] other benifits, you should still be early enough, power off, enable pae, then 686-pae [00:58] 486 works, but meant for old machines [00:58] ok what i suspected but haven't seen that option or haven't noticed it atleast [00:58] and by old, I mean 95-2000 era hardware [00:58] it's not in the start wizard [00:59] settings, system, motherboard if I recall [00:59] then boot debian installer again [00:59] (done it out of habit so much, forgot about that) [00:59] yeah i chose the 686 [00:59] but not 686-pae? [01:00] no just 686 [01:00] it works, more favored over 486, less than 686-pae though [01:01] well no doubt i will be doing this again :) [01:02] memory is the main thing people think of, but there are some other benifits [01:02] yeah well i'm just curious to get it working now anyway [01:02] I've just sorta done it for so long, I forget why I do [01:03] lol, yeah [01:03] well i do like the new login manager in 11.10 [01:04] cyberanger: debian desktop environment? what is that gnome I'm guessing [01:04] i'm thinking in the past it just said gnome [01:04] but been a few months [01:05] and cyberanger some neat things, jockey notes that you need to upgrade vbox guest additions very cool [01:10] wrst: yeah, they have other options, a fan of xfce and lxde [01:10] but that (should still be) gnome [01:11] yeah, debian has moved away from some of it's GNU & FSF only princibals [01:12] well that may upset richard stallman but... [01:12] they've actually made the main branch fully compliant recently, but they've made it easier for non-free contrib and restricted to be used [01:12] a new member to the team cyberanger, you know what would be nice to have some sort of info packet or something to send new members [01:13] some via jockey, other methods too [01:13] they're becoming open minded some, being wise, and cautious [01:13] yea cyberanger when i was trying to use non-free it was pain in the rear [01:14] wrst: a change in topic, you mean our loco, new members with an information packet? [01:14] or a new debian user [01:14] cyberanger: check your email new loco member :P [01:14] but yeah something to let them know what we do where / how to communicate that type of thing? [01:15] not even 10 minutes ago, yeah [01:15] but your timing, I had to wonder a little [01:16] it would, if maintained [01:16] my phone beeped so got right on it [01:16] I saw it in mutt [01:16] yeah that's the thing keeping something like that maintained, good point [01:17] makes me wonder if we ever did that before [01:18] * cyberanger spends more time updating his own documentation on things, that actually using the same documents [01:18] waist of bloddy time [01:18] well we all gotta waste time doing something :) [01:19] yeah, but that is one thing that's slowed me down on swissknife-router [01:20] and I've already got enough excuses on those delays [01:21] well i have everything downloaded now its installing woo hoo [01:22] that's great [01:23] yeah i'm going from 10/1 to 6/768 internet at the new place that's a bummer [01:26] 6M down 768k up? [01:26] yes [01:26] that's not bad [01:26] worse than before, but not real bad [01:26] best I had was 6 down & 1 up [01:26] no i'm really enjoying this speed [01:27] worst I had was well, 33.6k dial-up modem [01:27] or my iden phone of 20k [01:27] ouch [01:28] but nowadays a cheeseburger buys so much speed [01:28] hard drives are cheap, sneakernet it [01:28] cyberanger: unity is certainly improving [01:28] that's what I'm likely to do for a small time [01:28] when I get notice to packup and haul out for a little bit [01:29] (depending on virgin mobile (sprint) coverage, and landline access) [01:30] operate as I am, or on dial-up & wifi [01:35] hmm debian aborted [01:35] really, why? [01:36] no clue [01:37] trying again :) [01:40] well, I'd enable pae first [01:40] I know that worked again & again here [01:41] i did :) [01:57] here we go with the downloading again [02:00] hope it works this time [02:05] if it doesn't... well i can try again :) [02:08] i had two vm's running cyberanger i suppose that could have had something to do with it but should not have been a problem [02:08] cyberanger: Yes it still does have Ubuntu 10.04 on it [02:10] part of me wants to reformat all to linux. Other part wants to keep a small 30Gb windows partition and rest linux. but I would have to go back to factory to make windows part smaller [02:11] orangeninja: but you didn't tell the ubuntu installer to use the full disc, did you? [02:12] and potentailly overwrite the recovery partition somewhere in the process [02:12] nope, I still see it as the D drive. I even went into disk managment and set it as active. But F 11 at boot does nothing [02:14] hrm [02:18] Use grub to boot it (SuperGrubDisk if you don't have grub on the partition) [02:19] If you don't see grub on boot edit /etc/default/grub and the hidden timeout, run os-prober and update-grub [02:19] I have grub it makes me choose window or ubuntu every time I boot. [02:19] 2 window entrys just boot regular windows [02:19] orangeninja: what drive has the recovery partiton [02:19] That's odd, normally there is a recovery option [02:19] /dev/sdXN [02:20] Unit193: HP's thrown some curveballs before (as my own HP Pavilion dv2742se has proven) [02:20] let me see if i can make a pic for you guys.... I need to clean old kernals but I never did because I thought I was going to reinstal untill I ran into this... heh [02:21] cyberanger: I guess... Our Compaq has it just fine though :/ Who else is in swissknife with you anywho? (Figured it might be nicer than just flashing the it :P ) [02:22] Unit193: you mean people developing it? or aware of it, assisted in some way or another, in an IRC channel, etc. [02:23] cyberanger: I wasn't sure if the number was the same, but I was mostly thinking... Maybe channel, I don't know now :P [02:24] channel has wrst & myself, I've gotten assistance in some information from a few people involved in keryx [02:24] AHHHHHH!!! I am so sorry.... it was right there SDA2 [02:24] I bet that is it. [02:24] the list is fairly small [02:25] orangeninja: /dev/sda2 [02:25] does that match a grub2 entry? [02:25] I am making sure I got everything before I restore factory settings [02:25] I guess grub overides F 11, huh? [02:26] duh [02:26] or your hitting it too late, or something [02:26] but yeah, that's easily a possibility [02:26] nope, I have tried as soon as I power until I get the beeeeep! [02:26] HP tied in a bootloader chain, recovery first [02:27] grub in the MBR would adjust that chain [02:27] something that isn't a huge issue [02:27] but hp did other things over time [02:27] or more accurately, more ways to have things conflict [02:28] brb [02:30] 50% there cyberanger :) [02:32] wrst: so the question is the glass half full or half empty? [02:32] i'm going with full [02:32] (my answer, the glass is the wrong size) [02:33] wrst: ^ [02:33] well technically [02:33] or my more scarsatic version, neither, some idiot gave me the wrong size glass [02:33] the glass is always full [02:33] unless it's half filled in a vacuum [02:33] cyberanger: i'm curoius about debian testing while I like arch i really like the thought of being on debian all the time also [02:34] Juzzy: so one half is filled with nothing ;-) [02:34] "nothing"? [02:34] you mean oxygen, nitrogen, carbon dioxide, argon, etc? [02:34] in a gas form [02:34] :> [02:34] well, not in a vacum [02:34] cyberanger: there is always one in every crowd... :) [02:35] its half full of air, half full of water [02:35] ;/ [02:35] just my way of saying, that question is one with no right answer, just whatever answer is handy [02:35] it does, half empty and half full are BOTH Wrong [02:35] it's 100% full in either case [02:35] however few go outside the two options given (making it a good optimist vs pessimist guage) [02:36] wrst: tonight there seems to be two [02:36] :( [02:37] Juzzy: I think that's a good thin [02:37] thing* [02:37] it's ok [02:37] it's how my technical mind works ;/ [02:37] * cyberanger doesn't just think outside the box, he blows it up [02:37] drives the wife bonkers sometimes [02:37] ha ha [02:38] * cyberanger has the RDX to prove it [02:38] it's hard to be a christian when your mind is detailed oriented :/ [02:39] oh, yeah, it can be [02:39] and I take it she's the real devout type then? [02:40] well, heh yes [02:40] we are both christians [02:40] (not saying there is a sliding scale on how one is devout to their beliefs) [02:40] neither of us are bible thumpers [02:41] I actually enjoy debating aithiests though [02:41] * wrst has bible will thump [02:41] Juzzy: really, thats interesting [02:41] yea, I'm rather good at it [02:41] the hard part that the torah, the koran, the bible & the constitution left things up to interpurtation [02:41] the problem I have is all the holes in the bible [02:41] which makes it hard to defend sometimes [02:42] two vary dangerous things when left too vauge, politics & religion [02:42] regardless, the cores of religion revolve around 1 argument [02:42] intellegent design [02:42] Juzzy: reminds me of a scene of a BBC show, Mrs. Brow's boys [02:42] it's harder for an athiest to prove God doesnt than it is that we evolved from dust [02:43] erm vice versa [02:43] Juzzy: I have found that with atheism it is a religion in and of itself [02:43] she's devout cathloic, but when a bunch of mormons come to her house, she pulls all the stops [02:43] harder to prove we came from dust [02:43] heh [02:43] but I know many and atheist that I do like also [02:43] oh sure [02:43] the impressive thing about athiest, they know the bible better than most christians [02:43] cyberanger: grub is installing this sounds to be good [02:43] wrst: sounds real good [02:44] which puts them at considerable risk [02:44] Juzzy: agreed, then some stupid christian tries to defend their faith adn well its all over and they look stupid [02:44] Juzzy: yeah, I'd love to see more athiests try that on the torah & koran too [02:44] What I find absolutely amazing [02:44] I mean, if your gonna say there is no god, you gotta punch holes in all god-beliving faith [02:44] is the youtube simulations of the universe and X Y Whatever star [02:45] which is like 1 million x larger than the sun [02:45] cyberanger: i have me some bootin' going on [02:45] cyberanger: the whole argument revolves around orgin of man [02:45] so regardless if some dude died on a cross 2k yrs ago [02:46] or some leader came up 400 yrs later [02:46] ok cyberanger here's why i probably won't use debian testing... still no gnome 3! [02:46] Juzzy: yeah, except for a buddist (sp?) [02:46] did we come from monkeys, etc or created [02:46] actually [02:46] buddism isnt really a religion [02:46] it's a meditation practice more than anyhting [02:47] well by definition maybe so [02:47] Religion is a collection of cultural systems, belief systems, and worldviews that establishes symbols that relate humanity to spirituality and moral values. [02:47] LMAO! for your information glass was empty... all out after 1. [02:47] yeah, that's the hard part, drawing the line [02:48] I'd say it is, you have faith in it & define your life to it [02:48] so based on that, atheism is actually a religion [02:48] but perhaps that's myself leaning back on something definivite vs subjective [02:49] yeah, based on that, atheism could be a religion [02:49] strong faith in no god existing, not sure how one define's their life to it [02:50] but I suppose by being unhindered from any customs any god commanded could fill that void [02:50] I had a awesome punchline to an athiest friend on fb once [02:50] wrst: good news [02:50] it's like stealing candy from an athiest [02:50] his wife (ath and lib) posted how inhumane and rediculous to circumsize boys [02:50] Atheist: there is no god [02:50] so after about 40 going back and forths [02:51] christian: there is no candy [02:51] I said... [02:51] cyberanger: what is the good news? [02:51] so I'm going to guess you're pro-choice [02:51] athiest: my god your right [02:51] which is a nobrainer for a liberal [02:51] she replied (what's that have to do with anything) [02:51] Juzzy: lol [02:51] wrst: your progress [02:52] with debian testing [02:52] so I said: So somewhere in your F'd up head, it's ok to shove a rod through a baby's skull and suck out it's brain, but it's not ok to cut some skin off it's penis? [02:52] [02:52] yeah but no gnome 3 cyberanger, what in the world are they testing? [02:52] BOOOM! Juzzy [02:53] wrst: you selected the desktop, do you have any desktop showing up? [02:53] ya, ^5 mysqlf, none of the liberals would do so [02:53] lol myself [02:53] Juzzy: I see a limited use as reasonable [02:53] cyberanger: yep have gnome 2.x [02:53] I have a hard time typing myself, always comes out mysql [02:53] lol has your friends invited you back? Awsome comeback my friend, [02:53] extremely limited, if one life isn't lost, both will die [02:53] limited use != pro-choice [02:54] 100% different [02:54] Juzzy: i prefer to say pro killing babies [02:54] some preacher is getting sued in texas [02:54] b/c he bought a billboard [02:54] erm -preacher + guy [02:55] Juzzy: exactly, but I think many don't accept that there could be legitimate reasons [02:55] he has a pair of hands and a baby chalkline [02:55] saying: I would had a child if my wife didnt choise to murder it [02:55] the debate is so life or death, it's gotten tunnel vision on just that [02:55] ok cyberanger found a way to get gnome 3 adding expiremental repo, this sounds dangerous [02:55] I imagine they are not still married [02:55] wrst: is it not in the default repos? [02:55] wow [02:55] nope gnome 2 still default [02:56] wrst: so debian testing has left gnome 4 to sid for now, hrm [02:56] yeah seems a little silly to me [02:56] I use both, so that would explain my mistake [02:56] eh, debian (outside sid) is known for caution [02:57] yeah i suspect something is about to break :) [02:57] well the mirror I'm on is using cyberanger's dial up so i'm going to go to bed while this is downloading see everyone later [03:01] cya [03:01] cya Juzzy [03:01] ok 250 gb hd Ill make it easy and put 50Gb as windows. How should I partition the rest [03:01] wrst, not me [03:01] wrst: funny [03:01] but ok heh [03:02] real funny [03:02] I have 4 gb ram [03:02] orangeninja: what's on the rest? [03:02] * cyberanger isn't on dial up without a real outage or unexpected travel issues [03:02] night wrst [03:02] it is going to be linus [03:02] linux [03:02] what I do (so shoot me) [03:02] is put 20gb to linux [03:03] and the rest to windows [03:03] then map ntfs to linux for storing random crao [03:03] p [03:03] b/c you can't easily read ext in windows [03:03] but linux can ntfs np [03:03] but that's just me, anti-linux desktops [03:04] hmmm this is a HP dv6775 latop [03:04] windows vista pro or home pro I dont know.... [03:04] would the ntfs be / in linux? [03:04] I mean home [03:05] no [03:05] well, it -could- b [03:05] e [03:05] I just do /mnt/ntfs or whatever [03:06] an ln-s downloads or whatever I wanna share [03:06] but that's just me, bro [03:06] Juzzy: I've found the ext tools in windows more reliable lately [03:06] you do whatever [03:06] just needing the ext4 features patched in [03:06] ya, just not native [03:07] yeah, i am just a guy who is learning. I like linux enough that I mostly boot laptop to linux unless I need widows. SO I wanted to make a primary linux laptop, but scared to drop windows all the way off of laptop... know what I mean. Just in case. [03:10] I mean everything seems to work on the laptop. I have not even got the weird touchpad crash in a while. So I could probably make it a total linux machine if I could? [03:15] Juzzy: idk if ntfs support could be called native, to linux at least [03:16] due to the reverse engineered nature, higer bug rate & not in all distros by default [03:16] ubuntu enables it, more have over the years, as bugs thin out [03:23] idk, I've never been a huge fan [03:25] of what? ntfs on linux? [03:26] ntfs in general [03:27] improvement over fat32, yes, but fat goes back to dos, you had too much to improve by then [03:27] by NTFS's release, that is, just anything new was an improvement [04:35] o/ [04:36] Howdy [04:36] howja lol [15:58] Hola [15:59] I think pandora is gonna say I hit their cap this month, hit 25% already [15:59] mostly cause of yesterday & more today I'm sure [16:00] and I've got two days ahead where it'll be running for 12 hours straight [16:01] * cyberanger regrets having flash installed, but pandora & hulu seem to be worth it [16:18] cyberanger: pianobar = no caps [16:23] Unit193 you've last me [16:24] lost me* [16:25] pianobar (source: pianobar): console based player for Pandora radio. In component universe, is optional. Version 2011.01.24-1ubuntu0.2 (natty), package size 50 kB, installed size 176 kB [16:25] the cap bit [16:26] Pandora has caps still? (I'm really not sure) If you don't use their flash client, you don't get them [16:26] Pithos too [16:26] they did that as Flash LSO's before, but they seem to have changed methods (cause I shred them & route them to /dev/null [16:27] after 40 hours pay a buck for the rest of the month, or 30 for a year [16:27] (the 30 for a year is pandora one, which actually might be worth it, cause it removes some (if not all) ads [16:28] higher quality audio too) [16:30] pianobar does work though, keeps some distance from flash too it seems [16:30] guess it still needs aac support though [16:31] * cyberanger will have to pick apart it some [18:42] Unit193: looks like pianobar uses http, not https [18:42] kind of a shame, maybe I can fix that [18:43] I would have to assume the same for Pithos (But I like pianobar better anyway) [18:45] doesn't look like they configured it that way, stunnel might be able to do it though [18:46] damn, I've gotta break out windows, this pdf junk isn't even working right on a mac [18:47] wonder if it's my end or the server [19:35] cyberanger: wow [19:35] or, perhaps the higher than usual latency & lower bandwidth (well usual to a federally paid sysadmin) [19:35] windows and make [19:35] *mac [19:36] hey guys [19:36] Howdy? [19:36] wrst: yeah, due to some real messed up issue in Adobe Reader (or more likely, I hope, the server generating them, or their browser plugin, poor setup) [19:36] i just made a slight modification to http://www.ubuntu-tennessee.org [19:38] pace_t_zulu: how slight? I don't notice anything standing out [19:38] hey Unit193 [19:38] cyberanger: you using adobe reador on linux? or some other one? [19:39] look closer... [19:39] pace_t_zulu: i like htat you have more than one entry on the first page,and... did you do something to the calendar? [19:42] nothing to the calendar [19:42] font .... [19:42] ahh ok that expalins why that looked different :) [19:44] wrst: normally I use evince, this isn't normal, so acroread [19:44] * cyberanger is backed into a corner on this [19:45] adobe reader last i used it wasn't too bad on linux [19:45] pace_t_zulu: font, ah, I usually shrug that off [19:45] wrst: as a browser plugin, with javascript call home functions [19:45] i reckon having the ubuntu font on ubuntu-tennessee.org isn't a bad thing [19:46] & the pdf actually generated on the server, dynamically generated, not just a file [19:46] pace_t_zulu: depends on if a new guy with network issues can still render it in windows [19:48] wrst: so yeah, the added "features" above makes it all unpredictable [19:48]