[00:12] <_stink_> rick_h_: i lean toward the first, but i think that's only because i'm thinking of myself in the audience.
[00:12] <_stink_> brousch is probably right.
[00:13] <rick_h_> _stink_: well I submitted the first and told him if he didn't like he I could do the second and I'll see what the guy running it says
[00:31] <jrwren> rick_h_: what is with teh pop8 pastebin?
[00:31] <jrwren> oh... those are two talks... hrm... flip a coin, both look great.
[00:32] <rick_h_> cool, thanks
[00:32] <jrwren> if I had to pick, I'd pick the second one
[00:32] <snap-l> Yeah, I'd say both would be good
[00:32] <jrwren> becuase the first one, i actually don't agree with :)
[00:32] <snap-l> jrwren: You're just not one to face facts. ;)
[00:33] <jrwren> PEP8 is nice and all, but i think strict adherence to style is actually all that important
[00:33] <jrwren> snap-l: that is right.
[00:33] <rick_h_> jrwren: well, the overall talk goal is "readable is important" and going through reasons why
[00:33] <snap-l> jrwren: I think pep8 is great for making things readable
[00:34] <jrwren> i think it is a great starting point.
[00:34] <rick_h_> demonstrating on code that's pep8/not, and going through some libraries/etc to compare which are more 'reader' friendly/why
[00:34] <jrwren> ya know what... its python, of course it is great.
[00:34] <jrwren> I just get pissed off at how stupid idiomatic C# is.
[00:34] <rick_h_> yea, I mean it shows off python as very readble
[00:34] <jrwren> idiomatic python, i've never had a problem with.
[00:34] <rick_h_> and hopefully any language dev would walk away asking if their code is as readable as it can be maybe
[00:35] <rick_h_> meh, I'm one of those style guidelines crazies, so it's a chance for me to rant :)
[00:36] <snap-l> http://video.pbs.org/video/2022819754
[00:36] <snap-l> Wow, I love these theaters in this video
[00:36] <snap-l> Amazing plaves.
[00:38] <rick_h_> bah, that video set my laptop fans a running
[00:38] <snap-l> Sorry. :)
[00:38] <snap-l> I'm watching it on my desktop, which is already running hot
[00:38] <snap-l> CPU Temperature:   +49.0°C  (high = +65.0°C, crit = +95.0°C)
[00:38] <snap-l> MB Temperature:    +61.0°C  (high = +45.0°C, crit = +95.0°C)
[00:40] <rick_h_> http://1devdaydetroit.wordpress.com/
[00:40] <rick_h_> sweet, curious to hear dianne speak
[00:40] <rick_h_> never really heard her talk at anything
[00:41] <snap-l> wow, they're quick.
[00:58] <snap-l> Everyone ready to meet?
[00:58] <jjesse> do we have to?
[00:58] <snap-l> Yes
[00:59] <snap-l> http://loco.ubuntu.com/meetings/ubuntu-michigan/80/detail/
[00:59] <greg-g> yo yo
[00:59] <greg-g> Things are a tad crazy around here
[00:59] <jjesse> i bet they are
[01:00] <snap-l> greg-g: Everything OK out there?
[01:00] <greg-g> you know, stressful packing/moving stuff
[01:00] <greg-g> but otherwise ok
[01:00] <snap-l> OK.
[01:00] <snap-l> Glad it's just normal normal stuff. ;)
[01:01] <greg-g> :)
[01:01] <greg-g> so yeah, meeting? we got people here?
[01:01] <snap-l> I believe so
[01:01] <jjesse> some times
[01:02] <jrwren> i'm here. not that i count
[01:02] <greg-g> rick_h_: _stink_ jrwren widox Wolfger you here?
[01:02] <snap-l> jrwren: You count.
[01:02] <greg-g> heh
[01:02] <rick_h_> yea, here
[01:02] <rick_h_> for a few
[01:02] <snap-l> jrwren: I think you're a turing machine too.
[01:02] <greg-g> alright then, the agenda is up there
[01:02] <greg-g> so, first one is OLF
[01:02] <jrwren> yup. and my tape is toilet paper.
[01:02] <snap-l> So, anything else on the agenda that needs covering?
[01:03] <greg-g> reapproval
[01:03] <greg-g> which is https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/784667
[01:03] <snap-l> Adding that to the agenda at item 3
[01:04] <greg-g> oh right, that is a private bug :/
[01:04] <snap-l> Added
[01:04] <snap-l> WTF?!?
[01:05] <snap-l> Why did they make that a private bug? :)
[01:05] <greg-g> so not everyone can see all the -1's :)
[01:05] <greg-g> so, OLF first? partnering with Ohio?
[01:05] <rick_h_> I've got the booth gear, don't let me forget
[01:06] <greg-g> cool, so rick_h_ is going :)
[01:06] <rick_h_> yea, if the open source booths are the same price lococast is going to try to get one
[01:06] <greg-g> (the LD is taking forever to log me in...)
[01:06] <greg-g> cool
[01:06] <snap-l> Yeah, I was thinking that since we had a booth, we might want to partner withthe Ohio group
[01:07] <greg-g> so, shall I/someone email the ohio team?
[01:07] <rick_h_> sounds good
[01:07] <greg-g> I figure just shooting an email to their mailing list
[01:07] <snap-l> Yeah, that would be cool.
[01:07] <snap-l> I can do that if you're busy, greg-g
[01:07] <greg-g> snap-l: that'd be great!
[01:07] <greg-g> I won't lie, I'm a tad overwhelmed tonight :/
[01:08] <snap-l> No worries.
[01:08] <greg-g> so, that's done, I think, nothing else to do until they respond
[01:09] <greg-g> Global Jam: We're still ready to go at SRT, I believe, right jrwren ?
[01:09] <greg-g> lets assume yes
[01:10] <greg-g> times are whatever we decided in that email thread, noon-5 I *think*
[01:10] <snap-l> Believe that was what we agreed
[01:10] <greg-g> http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-michigan/1090/detail/
[01:10] <greg-g> yep
[01:11] <greg-g> so now, I should blog that on the planet, and we should do reminders 2 weeks before, 1 week before, and the day before on the mailing list
[01:11] <snap-l> Planetary blogger. ;)
[01:11] <greg-g> :)
[01:11] <snap-l> OK.
[01:12] <greg-g> I think that's it? Oh, and of course with the 2 week prior one we spam all the other lists we know about
[01:13] <greg-g> So, with the blog post that will have all the pertinent details so an email can be written
[01:13] <greg-g> I'l hpefully get to the blog post by the end of this week
[01:13] <greg-g> Ok, reapproval
[01:13] <greg-g> agenda #3
[01:13] <snap-l> Yes, reapproval
[01:13] <greg-g> what we need to do:
[01:14] <jrwren> yup.
[01:14] <greg-g> 1) make sure our team reports are all A-OK
[01:14] <jrwren> SRT, still ready to go.
[01:14] <greg-g> jrwren: awesome, thanks
[01:15] <greg-g> 2) once those ar egood, I'll ping that private bug report
[01:15] <greg-g> then they'll add us to the agenda for the next month's meeting, which I htink we should shoot for the Sept one
[01:15] <greg-g> which means getting the reports due by the end of the month
[01:15] <snap-l> greg-g: What do we need to do to make sure the team reports are OK?
[01:16] <greg-g> so, one thing I forgot that we can totally use for those team reports are the LocoCast :0
[01:16] <greg-g> :)
[01:16] <snap-l> eh?
[01:16] <greg-g> add them to our team reports as things members of the LoCo did as contributing to our livelihood, or something :)
[01:17] <snap-l> OK, where are the reports located, for those of us who are too lazy to look. ;)
[01:17] <greg-g> ah, right
[01:17] <greg-g> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MichiganTeam/TeamReports/
[01:18] <snap-l> Wow, that needs some filling.
[01:18] <greg-g> yeah :/
[01:18] <snap-l> OK. We'll need some volunteers to help out
[01:18] <snap-l> How far back should we go?
[01:19] <snap-l> 2009? 2008?
[01:19] <greg-g> meh, 2009 is fine with me
[01:19] <snap-l> OK
[01:20] <snap-l> If anyone gets bored in the net few weeks, fill out some reports. ;)
[01:20] <snap-l> I'll try to get some filled out.
[01:20] <greg-g> yeah, I'll add the videos from the MUG meeting that gib posted
[01:21] <greg-g> other than that.... the lococasts?
[01:21] <snap-l> Lococasts, jams
[01:21] <snap-l> I can add the lococasts
[01:21] <snap-l> and the jams
[01:21] <greg-g> are you two ok with that, snap-l and rick_h_ ? using them for our things we did for the reapproval?
[01:21] <greg-g> cool, thanks man
[01:22] <jjesse> release party as well right?
[01:22] <greg-g> yep yep
[01:22] <jjesse> both west side and east side
[01:22] <greg-g> most of those are already in the reports for the past year or so
[01:22] <greg-g> word
[01:22] <snap-l> if rick_h_ is OK with it, I'm quite OK with it
[01:23] <greg-g> alright, let's put a goal date on that for August 20th
[01:23] <greg-g> cool
[01:24] <greg-g> alright, the sad agenda item
[01:24] <greg-g> I'm leaving :(
[01:24] <greg-g> on wednesday to be exact
[01:24] <snap-l> greg-g: Hold up
[01:24] <greg-g> oh, sorry
[01:24] <snap-l> We need to get ourselves on the agenda for reapproval
[01:24] <greg-g> right, should I just do that now assuming we're good to go?
[01:25] <snap-l> greg-g: yeah, just so we have something to shoot for. :)
[01:25] <greg-g> cool
[01:26] <greg-g> they're 3rd Tuesday of every month
[01:26] <greg-g> So, the next is Aug 16th
[01:26] <greg-g> then Sept 20th
[01:26] <greg-g> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoCouncil/Agenda
[01:28] <snap-l> When is our reapproval date?
[01:28] <snap-l> Seemed they were really tetchy about getting on the agenda prior to that
[01:28] <greg-g> sometime between now and the October meeting, inclusive
[01:29] <snap-l> OK, Sept 20th should be good
[01:29] <greg-g> they just don't want to have them all in october :)
[01:29] <snap-l> I want to get this done and over
[01:29] <greg-g> word
[01:29] <greg-g> no more agenda items with "re-approval" in the subject
[01:29] <snap-l> so we can fuck around for X years, and then race to the finish for the next reapproval
[01:30] <snap-l> ;)
[01:30] <jjesse> yay
[01:30] <greg-g> snap-l: exactly!
[01:30] <snap-l> So, the sad panda music
[01:32] <greg-g> so yeah, I'm not leaving this channel, of course, but it'd be great if someone could take the metaphorical reigns of the team since I'll be thousands of miles away
[01:32]  * greg-g looks at snap-l 
[01:32] <greg-g> :)
[01:32] <snap-l> What all is required for a successor?
[01:33] <greg-g> A) perseverance (or however you spell that)
[01:33] <greg-g> B) ability to run IRC meetings
[01:34] <greg-g> C) ability to email the mailing list/other mailings lists (aka: be a spammer)
[01:34] <greg-g> D) reserve locations for jams/beering
[01:34] <greg-g> E) perseverance
[01:34] <greg-g> F) that's about it
[01:35] <snap-l> Would membership help?
[01:35] <greg-g> I mean, mostly, it is being the point person for the team. Especially with the LoCo Council
[01:35] <snap-l> (also, is anyone else looking to do it?)
[01:35] <greg-g> Ubuntu Membership is not required, in fact, it is big reason I got memberhsip
[01:35] <greg-g> brousch: you here? are you interested in being the LoCo Team point person?
[01:36] <greg-g> _stink_: ^^
[01:36] <brousch> oh, hey, forgot the meeting
[01:36] <brousch> i vote for snap-l
[01:36] <snap-l> Hey brousch, glad you could join us. :)
[01:36] <jjesse> me 2
[01:36] <brousch> hah, set my phone to remind me, then forgot it in the car
[01:36] <greg-g> well done :)
[01:37] <_stink_> here
[01:37] <greg-g> alright, shall we put it to a vote?
[01:37] <greg-g> or can I just appoint someone, like I'm a king or something?
[01:37] <snap-l> Heh
[01:37] <jjesse> yes
[01:38] <snap-l> I was just asking if anyone was interested.
[01:38] <_stink_> appoint, then ask for objections
[01:38] <greg-g> (there's no rules on this, just how it would be best for our team personally)
[01:38] <greg-g> snap-l: please kneel
[01:38] <brousch> um
[01:38] <jrwren> benevolent dictator until you move
[01:38] <snap-l> hah
[01:39]  * _stink_ starts logging
[01:39] <snap-l> If nobody else wants it, I'll gladly do it
[01:39] <greg-g> I, Greg Grossmeier, see you as a worthy and beneficial heir to the thrown. Do you take the responsibility?
[01:39] <snap-l> With pleasure
[01:39] <_stink_> i might get emotional, this is an big moment for snap-l.
[01:39] <snap-l> Now, as members of the new republic (did nobody see Episode III? )
[01:39] <brousch> it is. i kind of wih i wasn't drunk right now
[01:40] <greg-g> So be it. From this day forward, snap-l is the new benevolant dictator for the Ubuntu Michigan LoCo until he sees fit
[01:40] <snap-l> Thank you, everyone.
[01:40] <_stink_> HUZZAH
[01:40] <brousch> woohoo!
[01:40]  * jjesse bends his knee to grovel at his new supreme overlord
[01:40]  * brousch runs off to install debian
[01:40] <greg-g> oh right, snap-l you may rise now
[01:40] <_stink_> hah
[01:40] <greg-g> :)
[01:40] <snap-l> jjesse: Now time to expose yourself, Darth Obvious
[01:41] <snap-l> ;)
[01:41] <jjesse> insert evil laugh here
[01:41] <greg-g> awesome
[01:41] <greg-g> well, I feel better about the future of the team now
[01:42] <Wolfger> oh crap...
[01:42] <_stink_> greg-g: thanks for your leadership, dear sir
[01:42] <Wolfger> I showed up for the meeting, went afk, and forgot all about it
[01:42] <greg-g> Wolfger: do you object to your new leadership?
[01:42] <jrwren> i dunno... snap-l's not been as tolerant of me as greg-g always was ;P
[01:42] <greg-g> lol
[01:42] <brousch> i would've voted for Wolfger, but he sent me bad pr0n
[01:42] <Wolfger> rofl
[01:42] <Wolfger> I most certainly did not
[01:42] <jjesse> brousch was it the midget stuff he sent me or something else?
[01:43] <greg-g> man, you west siders and your porn ;)
[01:43] <Wolfger> I linked a perfectly clean comic
[01:43] <Wolfger> on a site that hosts pics of naked women
[01:43] <jjesse> greg-g only in private cause we are all dutch christian reforms
[01:43] <snap-l> greg-g: Thank you so muc for getting the team back into fighting shape.
[01:43] <Wolfger> but I swear, when I look at the page, I see nothing worse that a few naughty words
[01:44] <greg-g> Wolfger: linky?
[01:44] <greg-g> ;)
[01:44] <snap-l> jrwren: I'm quite tolerant
[01:44] <Wolfger> greg-g: http://www.whatthechrist.com/2011/07/24/the-four-stages-of-adulthood/
[01:44] <brousch> Wolfger: strange, now it goes to the comic. earilier it forwarded to porn videos
[01:44] <snap-l> greg-g: As my first act as loco leader, I shall now raise you to the rafters
[01:44] <Wolfger> brousch: when I tried to hot link just the image, it redirected to the main site
[01:44] <snap-l> er, I mean your clothes
[01:45] <snap-l> Er, jersey.
[01:45] <_stink_> hah
[01:45] <Wolfger> heheh
[01:45] <Wolfger> snap-l++
[01:45] <greg-g> hah
[01:45] <brousch> how do you retire a loco leader?
[01:45] <_stink_> cement boots
[01:45] <brousch> scrape the ubuntu sticker off of his laptop and enshrine it?
[01:45] <snap-l> heh
[01:46] <greg-g> all possible
[01:46] <snap-l> greg-g: Who do we contact about making this official?
[01:47] <greg-g> well, I think I change it in LP, then I send an eamil to loco-contacts@lists.u.c (which you should now join)
[01:47] <snap-l> blergh. ;)
[01:47] <greg-g> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/loco-contacts
[01:47] <greg-g> very low traffic
[01:47] <brousch> excellne,t snap-l will love loco spam
[01:48] <brousch> damn, dragon's milk is some powerful stuff
[01:48] <snap-l> What was the other loco list that I was on that seemed like it blew up into loco hell
[01:48] <greg-g> brousch: mmmmmmmmm, dragons milk
[01:48] <snap-l> I'm already subscribed.
[01:48] <greg-g> hmmm
[01:48] <greg-g> oh, ok
[01:48] <snap-l> First order of business: Adding that list to my linked-in contacts. ;)
[01:48] <greg-g> oh right, they sometimes talk crazy talk about standardizing loco team names or whatever, safely ignore that until you see an official end announcement :)
[01:48] <greg-g> lolz
[01:50] <greg-g> snap-l: you are now the owner of the LP team
[01:50] <snap-l> OK< anything else that we need to cover?
[01:50] <greg-g> don't think so
[01:51] <jjesse> do we have spend more time talking about ubuntu in here now?
[01:51] <greg-g> always
[01:51] <jrwren> i like all our windows talk
[01:51] <jrwren> and eclipse
[01:51] <greg-g> alright, thanks everyone for a wonderful tenure and a quick/productive meeting
[01:52] <snap-l> Thanks again, greg-g
[01:52] <jjesse> thanks greg-g
[01:52] <snap-l> and no matter what, you're still the lead of the team. ;)
[01:52] <snap-l> And still a Michiganian
[01:52] <greg-g> :)
[01:53] <jjesse> oh that reminds me, last week i was driving down i-94 between battle creek and kalamazoo and some guy in an volkswagon beetle drove me with his car full of stuff like he was moving and he looked like greg-g
[01:53] <snap-l> Just ask Elvin Jones. He spent just a little while here, and we consider him a Michiganian
[01:53] <greg-g> hah, its the thing to do I guess
[01:55] <snap-l> Anything else?
[01:56] <snap-l> OK, Thanks everyone!
[01:56] <greg-g> :)
[01:56]  * greg-g goe sback to packing
[01:56] <brousch> i have tears in my eyes
[01:56]  * snap-l fiddles in the fridge for some beer and Ancient Aliens.
[01:56] <snap-l> brousch: It's the beer talking
[01:57] <brousch> the dog farted and greg-g is leaving. it is all too much
[01:57] <snap-l> Gah, dog farts are the worst
[01:57] <brousch> "Hello Ben Rousch,
[01:57] <brousch> The membership status of Craig Maloney (craig-decafbad) in the team
[01:57] <brousch> Ubuntu-Michigan (ubuntu-michigan) was changed by Greg Grossmeier
[01:57] <brousch> (greg.grossmeier) from Approved to Administrator."
[01:58] <snap-l> Had a guide dog lay a load at work one time. I had my headphones on, and suddently smelled something that smelled like a fart. Except it wasn't going away"
[01:58] <snap-l> OK, bbl.
[02:00] <jrwren> gross!
[02:00] <_stink_> lawl
[02:00] <jrwren> i hope the guided person stepped in it :)
[02:02] <_stink_> speaking of which, i think my cat is farting right next to me.
[11:23] <Wolfger> morning
[11:23] <Wolfger> It's a brand new day, with snap-l in charge.
[11:24] <Wolfger> it's about time we broke free of greg-g's tyrannical iron-fisted rule.
[11:26]  * greg-g flees to the caribbean islands to live in exile
[11:33] <Wolfger> What? How is that fair? You go flee someplace unpleasant, like Alaska. ;-)
[11:33] <Wolfger> Northern Alaska
[11:36] <rick_h_> hah
[11:36] <rick_h_> sorry I missed the transition of power
[11:36] <rick_h_> congrats on freeing yourself greg-g
[11:36] <rick_h_> how much bribery of snap-l did it take?
[11:44] <Wolfger> I hear beer was involved
[11:45] <Wolfger> probably got him good and drunk, and snap-l woke up in a bathtub full of ice
[13:14] <snap-l> heh
[13:14] <snap-l> Now now now, there will be no fleeing my tyrrany.
[13:15] <brousch> the price of my loyalty is an ubuntu-powered segway
[13:15] <snap-l> it better have tassels and a bike-bell.
[13:16] <brousch> you are providing it for me. you have my minimum specs
[13:17] <snap-l> Oh, I thought it was your umbrage for me keeping you in the loco. ;)
[13:18] <Wolfger> let the tithing commence
[13:19] <Wolfger> snap-l would like to receive at least one O'Reilly "deal of the day" per week from you people.
[13:20] <Wolfger> I'll collect them all so that he does not need to be bothered with keeping track of them.
[13:21] <snap-l> har har
[13:28] <greg-g> http://blog.grossmeier.net/2011/08/08/new-leader-of-the-michigan-loco/
[13:34] <greg-g> so, as I type out these announcements, I realize that for people who slur their speech a little, the leader of the loco's first name will still sound the same
[13:35] <rick_h_> heh
[13:42] <Wolfger> that's one hell of a slur if "greg" sounds like "snap" :-D
[13:43] <rick_h_> Wolfger: is still drunk from last night
[13:45] <Wolfger> ah, I see
[13:46] <greg-g> heh
[13:46] <greg-g> :)
[13:46] <snap-l> "Everyone in the LoCo likes Craig" <- I don't much care for Craig.
[13:48] <greg-g> :P
[13:50] <snap-l> Stack Overflow has a great discussion on decorators: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/739654/understanding-python-decorators/1594484#1594484
[13:51] <_stink_> yeah, started from that, and found http://www.artima.com/weblogs/viewpost.jsp?thread=240808
[13:51] <_stink_> both helpful
[13:52] <snap-l> _stink_: Cool. Did you see that on twitter?
[13:52] <snap-l> Also, Kashi Maple / Brown Sugar oatmeal is like eating a hot bowl of nothing
[13:52] <_stink_> naw, just google result.  i don't follow twitter... i'm a bad human being
[13:53] <snap-l> _stink_: Nah, just saw it there, and wondered if that might have prompted the discussion
[13:53] <_stink_> gotcha.  naw, working on an unapproved thing for work.
[13:53] <_stink_> want to get it together then BOOM drop it on em
[13:53] <greg-g> well done
[13:54] <_stink_> but will probably never get finished, knowing how these things go :P
[13:54] <snap-l> "WE've decided since we have a work-study student who knows FoxPro that we're going to scrap your entire project so that they get some experience"
[13:55] <snap-l> "Please rewrite everything in FoxPro with this student that will only be here one semester"
[13:55] <rick_h_> _stink_: just be careful going to decorator happy. It was a big drawback of turbogears and can make chasing bugs down right fun
[13:55] <Wolfger> that's... odd. You can assign a function to a variable, delete the function and the variable still acts as the function? Neat obfuscatory trick there. :-)
[13:55] <_stink_> rick_h_: noted, thanks.  i was mostly noticing that many of my views wanted to do the same thing - auth and check permissions.
[13:56] <rick_h_> Wolfger: :)
[13:56] <_stink_> rick_h_: unless there's a better way in pyramid to do that?
[13:56] <rick_h_> one of the best things of JS/Python
[13:56] <snap-l> Wolfger: Python is not immune to programmer stupidity.
[13:56] <rick_h_> _stink_: no, doing some of the same. Just heads up.
[13:56] <_stink_> coolio
[13:57] <snap-l> It might make aiming the gun at your foot more difficult, but will gladly let you pull the trigger if you so choose.
[13:57] <rick_h_> Wolfger: it's awesome to be able to pass around functions at times
[13:57] <rick_h_> _stink_: some stuff I like doing with context managers though
[13:57] <rick_h_> make sure to check those out
[13:57] <rick_h_> they're a bit more explicit and can do some handy extras
[13:58] <_stink_> gotcha, thanks
[14:05] <snap-l> I think I finally understand decorators
[14:05] <rick_h_> awesome
[14:06] <snap-l> I'll know for sure when I implement them myself. ;)
[14:06] <snap-l> But it's much more simple than I realized.
[14:07] <rick_h_> yea, honestly not a ton to it. But there's work in implementing them smartly to avoid too much extra work and allow for tracing your errors/etc easily
[14:07] <rick_h_> like anything, another layer of abstraction adds another layer of complexity
[14:07] <snap-l> Yeah, with great power comes great responsibility.
[14:07] <snap-l> also, cheetoes.
[14:08] <Wolfger> with great power comes cheetoes?
[14:08] <snap-l> Yes, yes indeedy
[14:08] <rick_h_> "sorry boss, I can't take any more power. My dr will get pissed if I show up with cheeto fingers again!"
[14:08] <snap-l> And ubuntu-powered segways. :)
[14:12] <Wolfger> Ooh. Decorators can be fun.
[14:12] <Wolfger> we can have self-rewriting code
[14:12] <rick_h_> wait until I show you python metapramming
[14:13] <rick_h_> where classes create classes :)
[14:15] <snap-l> At which point the universe decides to take a breather.
[14:15] <rick_h_> http://bitshaq.com/2011/07/14/basic-intro-to-python-meta-programming/
[14:17] <rick_h_> I used that once to create a enum class for a project at work
[14:17] <rick_h_> took a while to get right, but made the code much nicer to work with
[14:21] <rick_h_> OTA hd antenna arrives today. Let's see if I can convince the wife to cut the cord
[14:22] <snap-l> Cool
[14:22] <rick_h_> wishing i lived down south with the rest of you guys
[14:22] <snap-l> Which antenna did you get?
[14:22] <rick_h_> would probably be a bit easier
[14:22] <rick_h_> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002FU60GG
[14:23] <brousch> ug, i gave up and just went with the $15/mo comcast ultrabasic package
[14:23] <snap-l> Would like a report. I picked up another HD antenna for my Father In Law before deciding he needed cable
[14:24] <snap-l> Or rather, we needed to get him cable so he'd shut up about the TV.
[14:24] <rick_h_> will do, going to test it on the upstairs tv. Hopefully won't need to attic mount it, but willing to try
[14:24] <rick_h_> trying to get my wife to log what she watches and convince her she doens't need it any more
[14:24] <snap-l> Shouldn't nee dto do that
[14:25] <rick_h_> if I can get her to cut it, then a second roku would pay for itself one month and buy a series of tv every so often from amazon for all I care
[14:25] <snap-l> We eventually had to get a cheap antenna at the apartment because someone was feeding back noise into the apartment communal TV antenna
[14:25] <rick_h_> ah, sucky
[14:26] <rick_h_> yea, I mean they have big things to mount, but really hoping to avoid that
[14:26] <snap-l> yeah, managed to knock everything out
[14:26] <rick_h_> http://www.amazon.com/Antennas-Direct-ClearStream4-HDTV-Antenna/dp/B001BRXW74/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1312813574&sr=8-5
[14:26] <rick_h_> might be the next step if the little one fails
[14:27] <snap-l> http://www.amazon.com/Terk-Outdoor-Dual-Drive-Amplified-FM50/dp/B00009UHYQ <- Just get an FM antenna. ;)
[14:27] <snap-l> Oh, I see you already found something ungodly ugly. ;)
[14:29] <snap-l> Then you can get one of these: http://www.amazon.com/ANTENNACRAFT-ROTATOR-AUTOMATIC-ANTENNA-TDP/dp/B001JT32LA
[14:30] <snap-l> Good God, I'm surprised they still make these things, and that they're still that ugly.
[14:31] <brousch> we used that when we were kids, living in between ravenna and sparta
[14:31] <snap-l> Yeah, we had one at our old house
[14:32] <snap-l> (turn) Whirrrrrr chuck chuck chuck chuck chuck chuck
[14:32] <snap-l> And my parents would get upset if you turned it
[14:33] <brousch> we made my little brother do it, and he was not allowed to stop touching it because then the picture would degrade
[14:34] <_stink_> haha
[14:34] <_stink_> apparently all youngest children have the same experiences.
[14:34] <rick_h_> heh, gotta love it. User: "So this feature means it'll do this right?" Me: "Well, yea...it's supposed to but no one's used it yet and I've not tried it in a while, so think it's ok"
[14:35] <rick_h_> though in my defense there is a functional tests for it, but it's still spooky that no user has tried it in 2yrs
[14:35] <rick_h_> I must have missed the antenna tv age or something.
[14:35] <rick_h_> well, we also lived in appt and on base housing so we couldn't mount stuff like that
[14:36] <snap-l> rick_h_: You didn't have rabbit ears?
[14:36] <rick_h_> I honestly can't remember
[14:36] <_stink_> first it was rabbit ears... then when we got our first cable box, it didn't have a remote
[14:36] <rick_h_> earliest tv I can recall is sat morning cartoons and think we were on base with cable at that point
[14:36] <_stink_> so i was the remote
[14:38] <snap-l> There was a nook in the downstairs "family room" that had the TV. So I couldn't reach it. ;)
[14:42] <greg-g> man, that feels good, I reassigned all of my pending tickets in Footprints (ugh) to the person taking over those duties
[14:43] <snap-l> Footprints?
[14:44] <snap-l> Is that something for work?
[14:44] <greg-g> crappy crappy crappy ticketing system
[14:44] <greg-g> some proprietary expensive system that is horrible to use but it runs on MS Server so of course we bought it
[14:44] <snap-l> I have yet to see a work ticketing system that wasn't OSS that didn't suck
[14:44] <snap-l> Save maybe for Atlassian, but I wasn't a consumer.
[14:45]  * greg-g nods
[14:45] <greg-g> the only other option here is JIRA, but that is only an option if you are a tech group
[14:45] <snap-l> Yea, JIRA is what I was thinking of
[14:46] <greg-g> yeah
[14:46] <snap-l> I can never remember what it's called, outside of just calling it "Atlassian"
[14:46] <snap-l> since all of their products integrate together.
[14:46] <greg-g> oh right, confluence for the wiki and all that
[14:47] <jjesse_> footprints is owned by numera
[14:47] <jjesse_> used to be track it
[14:47] <greg-g> jjesse: yeah, I hate it, way too many clicks and page reloads to do anything quickly
[14:48] <jjesse> or numera software bought track-it and is upgrading/migrating everyone over to Footprints instead of doing work on Track-It
[14:48] <greg-g> and no email interface to the system (as a person on this end, it is email only for the people submitting tickets to us)
[14:48] <greg-g> hah
[14:48] <jjesse> yeah i've heard it sucks, never used it
[14:49] <greg-g> be thankful
[14:50]  * snap-l picked up the Tie Fighter Collector's CDROM from the Salvation Army this weekend for $1
[15:01] <snap-l> Plays nicely
[15:08] <_stink_> sqlalchemy just did something that surprised me.  in a pyramid view, i set object.some_field = some_value, when some_field isn't in the database and isn't mapped.  i expected sqlalchemy to raise an exception...
[15:09] <_stink_> but it didn't - it just ignored it.
[15:09] <_stink_> rick_h_: --^ is this normal?
[15:10] <rick_h_> _stink_: yep
[15:10] <rick_h_> talked about it at my talk
[15:10] <rick_h_> if the video ever got up you could see
[15:10] <_stink_> welllll i guess i should have been there. :)
[15:10] <rick_h_> models aren't limited to just db fields
[15:10] <_stink_> ahhh right
[15:10] <_stink_> duh
[15:10] <_stink_> so my instance will have a self.bad_field
[15:10] <_stink_> cool.
[15:10] <_stink_> and flush won't care.
[15:11] <rick_h_> you can build whole classes
[15:11] <rick_h_> right, sec, let me find that slide with the example
[15:11] <rick_h_> https://raw.github.com/mitechie/sqlalchemy_pyohio2011/master/src/presentation.rst
[15:11] <rick_h_> search for "username_min"
[15:11] <_stink_> now i have to decide whether to report back to the user that he made a mistake.
[15:12] <rick_h_> how did it get stuck on the class by the user?
[15:12] <_stink_> the user sent a PUT to update.
[15:12] <_stink_> implementing a REST service.
[15:12] <rick_h_> ah, need to use setattr vs just looping/setting
[15:13] <rick_h_> sorry, check with getattr
[15:13] <_stink_> setattr raises if an attr isn't already defined?
[15:13] <rick_h_> no, it doesn't sorry thinking of the fly too much
[15:13] <_stink_> np
[15:13] <_stink_> but i see what you mean, getattr
[15:13] <rick_h_> you can do a for key, val in request.params.iteritems():
[15:13] <rick_h_> if getattr(model, key):
[15:14] <rick_h_> setattr(model, key, val)
[15:14] <rick_h_> kind of thing
[15:14] <_stink_> yeah, sweet.
[15:14] <_stink_> perfect, thanks.
[15:14] <rick_h_> and in the else: you can raise value error or something if you want
[15:14] <rick_h_> sec, let me get you some goodies
[15:15] <rick_h_> https://github.com/mitechie/Bookie/blob/develop/bookie/models/__init__.py#L79
[15:15] <rick_h_> check out the "fromdict" method
[15:15] <rick_h_> what I do, is ignore things that aren't valid ("submit" and such)
[15:15] <rick_h_> and just do rick = User.find(13)
[15:15] <rick_h_> rick.from_dict(request.params)
[15:15] <rick_h_> and boom, updated
[15:15] <_stink_> my favorite thing about bookie: it is the reference "rick's way" implementation. :)
[15:15] <rick_h_> :)
[15:15] <brousch> hah
[15:15] <rick_h_> yea, I use this same thing at work as well, but I really like the "from_dict" for simple setting from posted values
[15:16] <brousch> my friend adam has a giant python project he uses that way. you ask him how to do something and he links you to his similar code in COILS
[15:16] <rick_h_> so I stick that from_dict onto Base
[15:16] <rick_h_> and I can use it on any declarative model after that
[15:17] <_stink_> cool, so you don't warn the caller if unmapped stuff is set.  but no reason i couldn't raise something instead.
[15:17] <rick_h_> I don't set unknown stuff
[15:18] <rick_h_> I only set things if the field is part of the model
[15:18] <rick_h_> else I just ignore it
[15:18] <_stink_> oh
[15:18] <_stink_>  i see
[15:18] <_stink_> for col in self.__table__.columns:
[15:18] <_stink_> ja
[15:18] <rick_h_> so if you try to add something via mucking with POST I never use it
[15:18] <rick_h_> yea, safer that way
[15:18] <_stink_> rock on, thanks.
[15:40] <rick_h_> http://eclecti.cc/computergraphics/snow-globe-part-one-cheap-diy-spherical-projection for you maker types
[15:41] <rick_h_> even some pygame for snap-l
[15:44] <Wolfger> Very cool, aside from the price tag
[15:44] <rick_h_> bah, all you need is a 3d printer, pico projector, some math skill, easy peasy
[15:46] <Wolfger> sure, I'll just whip the 3d printer and pico projector out of my attic....
[16:04] <jrwren> are you serious about the foxpro? snap-l ?
[16:07] <jrwren> greg-g: last time I checked Footprints was written in Perl ;)
[16:16] <greg-g> jrwren: oh? well, what I was told by the people who run it is that the reason we use it is because it runs on IIS
[16:18] <jrwren> terrible.
[16:18] <jrwren> i'm sure it does run on IIS
[16:18] <jrwren> but its perl.
[16:18] <jrwren> when i managed it at OU it was perl cgi.
[16:19] <jrwren> not even fastcgi
[16:19] <jrwren> and they did this weird thing where they bundled all the perl together
[16:19] <jrwren> so it didn't really load modules.
[16:19] <jrwren> or maybe it did.
[16:19] <jrwren> but i remember some weird stuff
[16:20] <greg-g> oh, I bet it was weird
[16:20] <greg-g> this thing seems so wrong on so many levels
[16:26] <snap-l> sigh
[16:26] <rick_h_> hmm, no devin :(
[16:27] <snap-l> jrwren: I'm just giving you a taste into academic thought. ;)
[16:27] <snap-l> (was re: foxpro)
[16:31] <rick_h_> anyone play with a usb tv tuner on linux?
[16:31] <greg-g> nope
[16:33] <snap-l> Not I
[16:33] <rick_h_> meh, I'll try to be patient and see if devin comes to CHC then
[16:33] <rick_h_> so hard...instant gratifiction...ugh
[16:45] <snap-l> you may need to wait a week
[16:45] <snap-l> he's coming back on Wednesday
[16:48] <rick_h_> bah, sucky
[16:48] <rick_h_> this won't do
[16:48] <ptenhoopen__> $123.49 for that snow globe project --> http://www.amazon.com/dp/B002AKKF12/ref=pe_164800_20723960_pe_epc_d8
[16:57] <snap-l> you know what would really be cool would be a planetarium with this
[16:59] <_stink_> snap-l++
[16:59] <_stink_> i've had a super cheap and open source planetarium projector in mind for a couple of years now
[16:59] <_stink_> first thing i thought of too
[17:00] <greg-g> yeah, use Stellarium as the imagery backend
[17:02] <_stink_> o/
[17:07] <brousch> make it so
[17:09] <_stink_> k hang on
[17:17] <Wolfger> I was thinking it would be an awesome display for Eve Online :-)
[17:18] <Wolfger> $123 is cheap(er). The web page said you could build it for $200.
[17:24] <brousch> ptenhoopen__ has seedy underworld contacts that get him items at a "discount"
[17:39] <ebarch> rick_h_: I've done a bit with capture devices, mainly for capturing motion events from webcams...what are you trying to do?
[17:45] <greg-g> ptenhoopen__: / Wolfger apparently that one only works with handheld devices (because of the input type) and you need another cable (not included) for it to work with a laptop/desktop. Apparently that cable can be expensive for some reason.
[17:47] <rick_h_> ebarch: just want to test my hd antenna
[17:47] <rick_h_> easier to hook to the laptop, go around the house, try to find the right angle, etc
[17:48] <ebarch> rick_h_: gotcha...don't know much about actually tuning channels...do you know if your card is supported out of the box?
[17:52] <rick_h_> ebarch: hadn't bought a card yet, that's what I wanted to check before I paid any $$
[17:55] <ebarch> rick_h_: the mythtv page has a pretty good overview of what has the best compatibility: http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Digital_Tuner_Cards
[17:58] <ptenhoopen__> greg-g:  OK, sorry to pass along misinfo.
[18:02] <greg-g> ptenhoopen__: hah! of course not! I got a bee in my bonet to look at the 1 star reviews and that is what people were complaining about
[18:03] <snap-l> I've found that looking up tuner cards is like a rathole
[18:03] <rick_h_> heh
[18:03] <snap-l> because once they get supported, the whole lineup changes
[18:09] <ebarch> yeah, unfortunately I haven't had a whole lot of luck...or I'll get a card working on ubuntu and the next release will refuse to play nice with it
[18:09] <rick_h_> damn, I hate it when I do cool things that the boss doesn't think is cool
[18:17] <snap-l> rick_h_: Such as?
[18:17] <rick_h_> snap-l: I built a controller in pylons to run any commands in your fabfile via a web request
[18:18] <rick_h_> he's trying to build a 'master' fab file to go through a bunch of hosts and check their git checkout verions/etc
[18:18] <rick_h_> so I thought if the apps had a fabfile api exposed he coudl just do http requests
[18:18] <rick_h_> but doesn't like that
[18:30] <gamerchick02> i got the email about the change in leadership.
[18:30] <gamerchick02> very cool
[18:30] <gamerchick02> congrats snap-l.
[18:31] <gamerchick02> sorry i wasn't at the meeting last night.
[18:36] <snap-l> gamerchick02: Thanks!
[18:37] <gamerchick02> :) You're welcome.
[18:38] <gamerchick02> ok. i have a question. what twitter/statusnet apps does everyone in here use? I'm using gwibber, but til it gets updated to the next version (probably in oneric) it's going to be slow and it loves to eat my CPU. what has everyone tried?
[18:39] <gamerchick02> i love Pino but it hasn't been updated since the Oathpocalypse.
[18:39] <gamerchick02> Qwit is kinda hinky for me... doesn't seem to do what i need.
[18:39] <Blazeix> Oauthpocalypse... I love that.
[18:39] <gamerchick02> hehe
[18:40] <gamerchick02> when twitter forced oauth. and that's fine, but... yeah
[18:40] <gamerchick02> and typing into mustard on my phone is fine, but i can't type as fast on the software keyboard as i can on my laptop.
[18:40] <gamerchick02> fine for the couch, actually.
[18:40] <snap-l> I still use gwibber
[18:41] <snap-l> but I only use twitter / statusnet
[18:41] <snap-l> I think Oneiric's gwibber will not be so piggy
[18:41] <snap-l> but I'll believe it when I see it
[18:44] <gamerchick02> i have facebook hooked in there
[18:44] <gamerchick02> could that be causing issues?
[18:44] <gamerchick02> i'm not getting messages from FB (the threading and timestamping is all wrong on it and it drives me batty)
[18:45] <gamerchick02> i hope oneric's gwibber won't be so piggy
[18:45] <gamerchick02> ALSO, how can i stop gmail from alerting me of new email on my phone?
[18:45]  * gamerchick02 is a newb android user
[18:45] <greg-g> gamerchick02: probably a setting on that last one?
[18:46] <Blazeix> gamerchick02: yeah, just a setting for android: Menu -> More -> Settigs -> [your account] -> Email Notifications
[18:54] <gamerchick02> i'm using the gmail app
[18:55] <gamerchick02> well
[18:55] <gamerchick02> i might go and use the mail app if i can control things better
[18:57] <Blazeix> that was for the gmail app.
[18:57] <Blazeix> at least, the default android gmail app, you might have something different if you have one of the non-standard android OSs.
[18:57] <gamerchick02> ah
[18:57] <gamerchick02> ok
[18:58] <gamerchick02> i have stock android from Vergin Mobile
[19:03] <gamerchick02> thanks, i went back to the standard email program; seems to work better than gmails? anyway.
[19:07] <gamerchick02> i seem to have it set up twice?
[19:08] <gamerchick02> good god, i thought i was a geek.
[19:09] <Blazeix> so do you have not have that setting in the gmail app?
[19:09] <Blazeix> or are you changing apps for another reason?
[19:09] <gamerchick02> there's a default "email" app on my phone, which is what i thought i set up originally
[19:10] <gamerchick02> i also found a "gmail" app on my phone which i set up as well.
[19:10] <gamerchick02> i do have that setting in the gmail app
[19:10] <Blazeix> ok. I use the 'gmail' app for my gmail account, and the 'email' account for work email accounts.
[19:10] <Blazeix> the 'email' app for work emails, that is
[19:11] <gamerchick02> ah
[19:11] <Blazeix> it looks like both apps have that available as a setting, though
[19:11] <gamerchick02> there i think i have it fixed
[19:36] <gamerchick02> i shut off all sound from email notifications
[19:36] <gamerchick02> just the little mail thing in the notification bar which is what i want
[19:37] <gamerchick02> i feel so silly asking for help when it's right there
[19:39] <gamerchick02> the manual isn't much help
[19:43] <rick_h_> _stink_: http://python.mirocommunity.org/video/4392/pyohio-2011-sqlalchemy-tutoria
[19:43] <rick_h_> man I talk too fast to do subtitles in any easy way
[19:43] <rick_h_> and use horrible broken english lol
[20:01] <brousch> you should read from a script like me!
[20:01] <rick_h_> man, yea your subtitles must be easy!
[20:07] <jrwren> gamerchick02: maybe newer gwibber is in backports? or maybe we could backport it ourselves?
[20:07] <gamerchick02> i don't know. i'm thinking of switching to something else (turpial? i don't know) til Oneric hits
[20:16] <brousch> subtitles?
[20:16] <rick_h_> yea, you're supposed to go in and subtitle your talk
[20:16] <gamerchick02> bbiab
[20:16] <rick_h_> there's a drop down on the video when you watch it on mirocommunity
[20:18] <brousch> sheat