[00:12] <_stink_> rick_h_: i lean toward the first, but i think that's only because i'm thinking of myself in the audience. [00:12] <_stink_> brousch is probably right. [00:13] _stink_: well I submitted the first and told him if he didn't like he I could do the second and I'll see what the guy running it says [00:31] rick_h_: what is with teh pop8 pastebin? [00:31] oh... those are two talks... hrm... flip a coin, both look great. [00:32] cool, thanks [00:32] if I had to pick, I'd pick the second one [00:32] Yeah, I'd say both would be good [00:32] becuase the first one, i actually don't agree with :) [00:32] jrwren: You're just not one to face facts. ;) [00:33] PEP8 is nice and all, but i think strict adherence to style is actually all that important [00:33] snap-l: that is right. [00:33] jrwren: well, the overall talk goal is "readable is important" and going through reasons why [00:33] jrwren: I think pep8 is great for making things readable [00:34] i think it is a great starting point. [00:34] demonstrating on code that's pep8/not, and going through some libraries/etc to compare which are more 'reader' friendly/why [00:34] ya know what... its python, of course it is great. [00:34] I just get pissed off at how stupid idiomatic C# is. [00:34] yea, I mean it shows off python as very readble [00:34] idiomatic python, i've never had a problem with. [00:34] and hopefully any language dev would walk away asking if their code is as readable as it can be maybe [00:35] meh, I'm one of those style guidelines crazies, so it's a chance for me to rant :) [00:36] http://video.pbs.org/video/2022819754 [00:36] Wow, I love these theaters in this video [00:36] Amazing plaves. [00:38] bah, that video set my laptop fans a running [00:38] Sorry. :) [00:38] I'm watching it on my desktop, which is already running hot [00:38] CPU Temperature: +49.0°C (high = +65.0°C, crit = +95.0°C) [00:38] MB Temperature: +61.0°C (high = +45.0°C, crit = +95.0°C) [00:40] http://1devdaydetroit.wordpress.com/ [00:40] sweet, curious to hear dianne speak [00:40] never really heard her talk at anything [00:41] wow, they're quick. [00:58] Everyone ready to meet? [00:58] do we have to? [00:58] Yes [00:59] http://loco.ubuntu.com/meetings/ubuntu-michigan/80/detail/ [00:59] yo yo [00:59] Things are a tad crazy around here [00:59] i bet they are [01:00] greg-g: Everything OK out there? [01:00] you know, stressful packing/moving stuff [01:00] but otherwise ok [01:00] OK. [01:00] Glad it's just normal normal stuff. ;) [01:01] :) [01:01] so yeah, meeting? we got people here? [01:01] I believe so [01:01] some times [01:02] i'm here. not that i count [01:02] rick_h_: _stink_ jrwren widox Wolfger you here? [01:02] jrwren: You count. [01:02] heh [01:02] yea, here [01:02] for a few [01:02] jrwren: I think you're a turing machine too. [01:02] alright then, the agenda is up there [01:02] so, first one is OLF [01:02] yup. and my tape is toilet paper. [01:02] So, anything else on the agenda that needs covering? [01:03] reapproval [01:03] which is https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/784667 [01:03] Adding that to the agenda at item 3 [01:04] oh right, that is a private bug :/ [01:04] Added [01:04] WTF?!? [01:05] Why did they make that a private bug? :) [01:05] so not everyone can see all the -1's :) [01:05] so, OLF first? partnering with Ohio? [01:05] I've got the booth gear, don't let me forget [01:06] cool, so rick_h_ is going :) [01:06] yea, if the open source booths are the same price lococast is going to try to get one [01:06] (the LD is taking forever to log me in...) [01:06] cool [01:06] Yeah, I was thinking that since we had a booth, we might want to partner withthe Ohio group [01:07] so, shall I/someone email the ohio team? [01:07] sounds good [01:07] I figure just shooting an email to their mailing list [01:07] Yeah, that would be cool. [01:07] I can do that if you're busy, greg-g [01:07] snap-l: that'd be great! [01:07] I won't lie, I'm a tad overwhelmed tonight :/ [01:08] No worries. [01:08] so, that's done, I think, nothing else to do until they respond [01:09] Global Jam: We're still ready to go at SRT, I believe, right jrwren ? [01:09] lets assume yes [01:10] times are whatever we decided in that email thread, noon-5 I *think* [01:10] Believe that was what we agreed [01:10] http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-michigan/1090/detail/ [01:10] yep [01:11] so now, I should blog that on the planet, and we should do reminders 2 weeks before, 1 week before, and the day before on the mailing list [01:11] Planetary blogger. ;) [01:11] :) [01:11] OK. [01:12] I think that's it? Oh, and of course with the 2 week prior one we spam all the other lists we know about [01:13] So, with the blog post that will have all the pertinent details so an email can be written [01:13] I'l hpefully get to the blog post by the end of this week [01:13] Ok, reapproval [01:13] agenda #3 [01:13] Yes, reapproval [01:13] what we need to do: [01:14] yup. [01:14] 1) make sure our team reports are all A-OK [01:14] SRT, still ready to go. [01:14] jrwren: awesome, thanks [01:15] 2) once those ar egood, I'll ping that private bug report [01:15] then they'll add us to the agenda for the next month's meeting, which I htink we should shoot for the Sept one [01:15] which means getting the reports due by the end of the month [01:15] greg-g: What do we need to do to make sure the team reports are OK? [01:16] so, one thing I forgot that we can totally use for those team reports are the LocoCast :0 [01:16] :) [01:16] eh? [01:16] add them to our team reports as things members of the LoCo did as contributing to our livelihood, or something :) [01:17] OK, where are the reports located, for those of us who are too lazy to look. ;) [01:17] ah, right [01:17] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MichiganTeam/TeamReports/ [01:18] Wow, that needs some filling. [01:18] yeah :/ [01:18] OK. We'll need some volunteers to help out [01:18] How far back should we go? [01:19] 2009? 2008? [01:19] meh, 2009 is fine with me [01:19] OK [01:20] If anyone gets bored in the net few weeks, fill out some reports. ;) [01:20] I'll try to get some filled out. [01:20] yeah, I'll add the videos from the MUG meeting that gib posted [01:21] other than that.... the lococasts? [01:21] Lococasts, jams [01:21] I can add the lococasts [01:21] and the jams [01:21] are you two ok with that, snap-l and rick_h_ ? using them for our things we did for the reapproval? [01:21] cool, thanks man [01:22] release party as well right? [01:22] yep yep [01:22] both west side and east side [01:22] most of those are already in the reports for the past year or so [01:22] word [01:22] if rick_h_ is OK with it, I'm quite OK with it [01:23] alright, let's put a goal date on that for August 20th [01:23] cool [01:24] alright, the sad agenda item [01:24] I'm leaving :( [01:24] on wednesday to be exact [01:24] greg-g: Hold up [01:24] oh, sorry [01:24] We need to get ourselves on the agenda for reapproval [01:24] right, should I just do that now assuming we're good to go? [01:25] greg-g: yeah, just so we have something to shoot for. :) [01:25] cool [01:26] they're 3rd Tuesday of every month [01:26] So, the next is Aug 16th [01:26] then Sept 20th [01:26] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoCouncil/Agenda [01:28] When is our reapproval date? [01:28] Seemed they were really tetchy about getting on the agenda prior to that [01:28] sometime between now and the October meeting, inclusive [01:29] OK, Sept 20th should be good [01:29] they just don't want to have them all in october :) [01:29] I want to get this done and over [01:29] word [01:29] no more agenda items with "re-approval" in the subject [01:29] so we can fuck around for X years, and then race to the finish for the next reapproval [01:30] ;) [01:30] yay [01:30] snap-l: exactly! [01:30] So, the sad panda music [01:32] so yeah, I'm not leaving this channel, of course, but it'd be great if someone could take the metaphorical reigns of the team since I'll be thousands of miles away [01:32] * greg-g looks at snap-l [01:32] :) [01:32] What all is required for a successor? [01:33] A) perseverance (or however you spell that) [01:33] B) ability to run IRC meetings [01:34] C) ability to email the mailing list/other mailings lists (aka: be a spammer) [01:34] D) reserve locations for jams/beering [01:34] E) perseverance [01:34] F) that's about it [01:35] Would membership help? [01:35] I mean, mostly, it is being the point person for the team. Especially with the LoCo Council [01:35] (also, is anyone else looking to do it?) [01:35] Ubuntu Membership is not required, in fact, it is big reason I got memberhsip [01:35] brousch: you here? are you interested in being the LoCo Team point person? [01:36] _stink_: ^^ [01:36] oh, hey, forgot the meeting [01:36] i vote for snap-l [01:36] Hey brousch, glad you could join us. :) [01:36] me 2 [01:36] hah, set my phone to remind me, then forgot it in the car [01:36] well done :) [01:37] <_stink_> here [01:37] alright, shall we put it to a vote? [01:37] or can I just appoint someone, like I'm a king or something? [01:37] Heh [01:37] yes [01:38] I was just asking if anyone was interested. [01:38] <_stink_> appoint, then ask for objections [01:38] (there's no rules on this, just how it would be best for our team personally) [01:38] snap-l: please kneel [01:38] um [01:38] benevolent dictator until you move [01:38] hah [01:39] * _stink_ starts logging [01:39] If nobody else wants it, I'll gladly do it [01:39] I, Greg Grossmeier, see you as a worthy and beneficial heir to the thrown. Do you take the responsibility? [01:39] With pleasure [01:39] <_stink_> i might get emotional, this is an big moment for snap-l. [01:39] Now, as members of the new republic (did nobody see Episode III? ) [01:39] it is. i kind of wih i wasn't drunk right now [01:40] So be it. From this day forward, snap-l is the new benevolant dictator for the Ubuntu Michigan LoCo until he sees fit [01:40] Thank you, everyone. [01:40] <_stink_> HUZZAH [01:40] woohoo! [01:40] * jjesse bends his knee to grovel at his new supreme overlord [01:40] * brousch runs off to install debian [01:40] oh right, snap-l you may rise now [01:40] <_stink_> hah [01:40] :) [01:40] jjesse: Now time to expose yourself, Darth Obvious [01:41] ;) [01:41] insert evil laugh here [01:41] awesome [01:41] well, I feel better about the future of the team now [01:42] oh crap... [01:42] <_stink_> greg-g: thanks for your leadership, dear sir [01:42] I showed up for the meeting, went afk, and forgot all about it [01:42] Wolfger: do you object to your new leadership? [01:42] i dunno... snap-l's not been as tolerant of me as greg-g always was ;P [01:42] lol [01:42] i would've voted for Wolfger, but he sent me bad pr0n [01:42] rofl [01:42] I most certainly did not [01:42] brousch was it the midget stuff he sent me or something else? [01:43] man, you west siders and your porn ;) [01:43] I linked a perfectly clean comic [01:43] on a site that hosts pics of naked women [01:43] greg-g only in private cause we are all dutch christian reforms [01:43] greg-g: Thank you so muc for getting the team back into fighting shape. [01:43] but I swear, when I look at the page, I see nothing worse that a few naughty words [01:44] Wolfger: linky? [01:44] ;) [01:44] jrwren: I'm quite tolerant [01:44] greg-g: http://www.whatthechrist.com/2011/07/24/the-four-stages-of-adulthood/ [01:44] Wolfger: strange, now it goes to the comic. earilier it forwarded to porn videos [01:44] greg-g: As my first act as loco leader, I shall now raise you to the rafters [01:44] brousch: when I tried to hot link just the image, it redirected to the main site [01:44] er, I mean your clothes [01:45] Er, jersey. [01:45] <_stink_> hah [01:45] heheh [01:45] snap-l++ [01:45] hah [01:45] how do you retire a loco leader? [01:45] <_stink_> cement boots [01:45] scrape the ubuntu sticker off of his laptop and enshrine it? [01:45] heh [01:46] all possible [01:46] greg-g: Who do we contact about making this official? [01:47] well, I think I change it in LP, then I send an eamil to loco-contacts@lists.u.c (which you should now join) [01:47] blergh. ;) [01:47] https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/loco-contacts [01:47] very low traffic [01:47] excellne,t snap-l will love loco spam [01:48] damn, dragon's milk is some powerful stuff [01:48] What was the other loco list that I was on that seemed like it blew up into loco hell [01:48] brousch: mmmmmmmmm, dragons milk [01:48] I'm already subscribed. [01:48] hmmm [01:48] oh, ok [01:48] First order of business: Adding that list to my linked-in contacts. ;) [01:48] oh right, they sometimes talk crazy talk about standardizing loco team names or whatever, safely ignore that until you see an official end announcement :) [01:48] lolz [01:50] snap-l: you are now the owner of the LP team [01:50] OK< anything else that we need to cover? [01:50] don't think so [01:51] do we have spend more time talking about ubuntu in here now? [01:51] always [01:51] i like all our windows talk [01:51] and eclipse [01:51] alright, thanks everyone for a wonderful tenure and a quick/productive meeting [01:52] Thanks again, greg-g [01:52] thanks greg-g [01:52] and no matter what, you're still the lead of the team. ;) [01:52] And still a Michiganian [01:52] :) [01:53] oh that reminds me, last week i was driving down i-94 between battle creek and kalamazoo and some guy in an volkswagon beetle drove me with his car full of stuff like he was moving and he looked like greg-g [01:53] Just ask Elvin Jones. He spent just a little while here, and we consider him a Michiganian [01:53] hah, its the thing to do I guess [01:55] Anything else? [01:56] OK, Thanks everyone! [01:56] :) [01:56] * greg-g goe sback to packing [01:56] i have tears in my eyes [01:56] * snap-l fiddles in the fridge for some beer and Ancient Aliens. [01:56] brousch: It's the beer talking [01:57] the dog farted and greg-g is leaving. it is all too much [01:57] Gah, dog farts are the worst [01:57] "Hello Ben Rousch, [01:57] The membership status of Craig Maloney (craig-decafbad) in the team [01:57] Ubuntu-Michigan (ubuntu-michigan) was changed by Greg Grossmeier [01:57] (greg.grossmeier) from Approved to Administrator." [01:58] Had a guide dog lay a load at work one time. I had my headphones on, and suddently smelled something that smelled like a fart. Except it wasn't going away" [01:58] OK, bbl. [02:00] gross! [02:00] <_stink_> lawl [02:00] i hope the guided person stepped in it :) [02:02] <_stink_> speaking of which, i think my cat is farting right next to me. [11:23] morning [11:23] It's a brand new day, with snap-l in charge. [11:24] it's about time we broke free of greg-g's tyrannical iron-fisted rule. [11:26] * greg-g flees to the caribbean islands to live in exile [11:33] What? How is that fair? You go flee someplace unpleasant, like Alaska. ;-) [11:33] Northern Alaska [11:36] hah [11:36] sorry I missed the transition of power [11:36] congrats on freeing yourself greg-g [11:36] how much bribery of snap-l did it take? [11:44] I hear beer was involved [11:45] probably got him good and drunk, and snap-l woke up in a bathtub full of ice [13:14] heh [13:14] Now now now, there will be no fleeing my tyrrany. [13:15] the price of my loyalty is an ubuntu-powered segway [13:15] it better have tassels and a bike-bell. [13:16] you are providing it for me. you have my minimum specs [13:17] Oh, I thought it was your umbrage for me keeping you in the loco. ;) [13:18] let the tithing commence [13:19] snap-l would like to receive at least one O'Reilly "deal of the day" per week from you people. [13:20] I'll collect them all so that he does not need to be bothered with keeping track of them. [13:21] har har [13:28] http://blog.grossmeier.net/2011/08/08/new-leader-of-the-michigan-loco/ [13:34] so, as I type out these announcements, I realize that for people who slur their speech a little, the leader of the loco's first name will still sound the same [13:35] heh [13:42] that's one hell of a slur if "greg" sounds like "snap" :-D [13:43] Wolfger: is still drunk from last night [13:45] ah, I see [13:46] heh [13:46] :) [13:46] "Everyone in the LoCo likes Craig" <- I don't much care for Craig. [13:48] :P [13:50] Stack Overflow has a great discussion on decorators: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/739654/understanding-python-decorators/1594484#1594484 [13:51] <_stink_> yeah, started from that, and found http://www.artima.com/weblogs/viewpost.jsp?thread=240808 [13:51] <_stink_> both helpful [13:52] _stink_: Cool. Did you see that on twitter? [13:52] Also, Kashi Maple / Brown Sugar oatmeal is like eating a hot bowl of nothing [13:52] <_stink_> naw, just google result. i don't follow twitter... i'm a bad human being [13:53] _stink_: Nah, just saw it there, and wondered if that might have prompted the discussion [13:53] <_stink_> gotcha. naw, working on an unapproved thing for work. [13:53] <_stink_> want to get it together then BOOM drop it on em [13:53] well done [13:54] <_stink_> but will probably never get finished, knowing how these things go :P [13:54] "WE've decided since we have a work-study student who knows FoxPro that we're going to scrap your entire project so that they get some experience" [13:55] "Please rewrite everything in FoxPro with this student that will only be here one semester" [13:55] _stink_: just be careful going to decorator happy. It was a big drawback of turbogears and can make chasing bugs down right fun [13:55] that's... odd. You can assign a function to a variable, delete the function and the variable still acts as the function? Neat obfuscatory trick there. :-) [13:55] <_stink_> rick_h_: noted, thanks. i was mostly noticing that many of my views wanted to do the same thing - auth and check permissions. [13:56] Wolfger: :) [13:56] <_stink_> rick_h_: unless there's a better way in pyramid to do that? [13:56] one of the best things of JS/Python [13:56] Wolfger: Python is not immune to programmer stupidity. [13:56] _stink_: no, doing some of the same. Just heads up. [13:56] <_stink_> coolio [13:57] It might make aiming the gun at your foot more difficult, but will gladly let you pull the trigger if you so choose. [13:57] Wolfger: it's awesome to be able to pass around functions at times [13:57] _stink_: some stuff I like doing with context managers though [13:57] make sure to check those out [13:57] they're a bit more explicit and can do some handy extras [13:58] <_stink_> gotcha, thanks [14:05] I think I finally understand decorators [14:05] awesome [14:06] I'll know for sure when I implement them myself. ;) [14:06] But it's much more simple than I realized. [14:07] yea, honestly not a ton to it. But there's work in implementing them smartly to avoid too much extra work and allow for tracing your errors/etc easily [14:07] like anything, another layer of abstraction adds another layer of complexity [14:07] Yeah, with great power comes great responsibility. [14:07] also, cheetoes. [14:08] with great power comes cheetoes? [14:08] Yes, yes indeedy [14:08] "sorry boss, I can't take any more power. My dr will get pissed if I show up with cheeto fingers again!" [14:08] And ubuntu-powered segways. :) [14:12] Ooh. Decorators can be fun. [14:12] we can have self-rewriting code [14:12] wait until I show you python metapramming [14:13] where classes create classes :) [14:15] At which point the universe decides to take a breather. [14:15] http://bitshaq.com/2011/07/14/basic-intro-to-python-meta-programming/ [14:17] I used that once to create a enum class for a project at work [14:17] took a while to get right, but made the code much nicer to work with [14:21] OTA hd antenna arrives today. Let's see if I can convince the wife to cut the cord [14:22] Cool [14:22] wishing i lived down south with the rest of you guys [14:22] Which antenna did you get? [14:22] would probably be a bit easier [14:22] http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002FU60GG [14:23] ug, i gave up and just went with the $15/mo comcast ultrabasic package [14:23] Would like a report. I picked up another HD antenna for my Father In Law before deciding he needed cable [14:24] Or rather, we needed to get him cable so he'd shut up about the TV. [14:24] will do, going to test it on the upstairs tv. Hopefully won't need to attic mount it, but willing to try [14:24] trying to get my wife to log what she watches and convince her she doens't need it any more [14:24] Shouldn't nee dto do that [14:25] if I can get her to cut it, then a second roku would pay for itself one month and buy a series of tv every so often from amazon for all I care [14:25] We eventually had to get a cheap antenna at the apartment because someone was feeding back noise into the apartment communal TV antenna [14:25] ah, sucky [14:26] yea, I mean they have big things to mount, but really hoping to avoid that [14:26] yeah, managed to knock everything out [14:26] http://www.amazon.com/Antennas-Direct-ClearStream4-HDTV-Antenna/dp/B001BRXW74/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1312813574&sr=8-5 [14:26] might be the next step if the little one fails [14:27] http://www.amazon.com/Terk-Outdoor-Dual-Drive-Amplified-FM50/dp/B00009UHYQ <- Just get an FM antenna. ;) [14:27] Oh, I see you already found something ungodly ugly. ;) [14:29] Then you can get one of these: http://www.amazon.com/ANTENNACRAFT-ROTATOR-AUTOMATIC-ANTENNA-TDP/dp/B001JT32LA [14:30] Good God, I'm surprised they still make these things, and that they're still that ugly. [14:31] we used that when we were kids, living in between ravenna and sparta [14:31] Yeah, we had one at our old house [14:32] (turn) Whirrrrrr chuck chuck chuck chuck chuck chuck [14:32] And my parents would get upset if you turned it [14:33] we made my little brother do it, and he was not allowed to stop touching it because then the picture would degrade [14:34] <_stink_> haha [14:34] <_stink_> apparently all youngest children have the same experiences. [14:34] heh, gotta love it. User: "So this feature means it'll do this right?" Me: "Well, yea...it's supposed to but no one's used it yet and I've not tried it in a while, so think it's ok" [14:35] though in my defense there is a functional tests for it, but it's still spooky that no user has tried it in 2yrs [14:35] I must have missed the antenna tv age or something. [14:35] well, we also lived in appt and on base housing so we couldn't mount stuff like that [14:36] rick_h_: You didn't have rabbit ears? [14:36] I honestly can't remember [14:36] <_stink_> first it was rabbit ears... then when we got our first cable box, it didn't have a remote [14:36] earliest tv I can recall is sat morning cartoons and think we were on base with cable at that point [14:36] <_stink_> so i was the remote [14:38] There was a nook in the downstairs "family room" that had the TV. So I couldn't reach it. ;) [14:42] man, that feels good, I reassigned all of my pending tickets in Footprints (ugh) to the person taking over those duties [14:43] Footprints? [14:44] Is that something for work? [14:44] crappy crappy crappy ticketing system [14:44] some proprietary expensive system that is horrible to use but it runs on MS Server so of course we bought it [14:44] I have yet to see a work ticketing system that wasn't OSS that didn't suck [14:44] Save maybe for Atlassian, but I wasn't a consumer. [14:45] * greg-g nods [14:45]