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zulhas anyone tried running libvirt on oneiric on the arm?11:00
ogra_zul, did it build yet ?11:02
ogra_yesterday it failed11:02
ogra_i tried a local build but that failed even earlier11:03
zulogra_: im using an older version i think 0.9.2-4ubuntu711:03
ogra_right, with yesterdays upload it FTBFS11:03
zulogra_: really? grrr11:15
robclarkogra_, hey, is there any minimal (ie. less than 200mb headless) image for natty?11:54
* robclark looking for link for recovering busybox user11:54
ogra_sure wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/OMAP11:55
robclarkogra_, but headless img is still quite large (by busybox standards)..11:56
robclarkI thought there was something smaller..11:56
ogra_there is ubuntu-core in oneiric, thats just 35M11:57
ogra_the natty ones are around 200M11:57
robclarkok.. then I guess oneiric it is11:57
ogra_note though, ubuntu-core is just a rootfs11:58
ogra_and give feedback to infinity, its his baby :)11:58
robclarkthat is fine.. it is for a kernel developer11:59
ogra_well, there is no user creation or system configuration at all, you need to do all of it manually11:59
robclarkI think that is fine for someone coming from busybox ;-)12:00
robclarkhmm, don't see the ubuntu-core img..  and looks like alpha-2 is gone..12:00
ogra_just use the link above12:00
ogra_its not an image, its a tarball12:01
robclarkyeah, yeah..  but either I'm blind or there still isn't anything smaller..12:01
robclarkhmm, ok..12:01
* ogra_ sees 35M next to the tarball file12:01
robclarkhmm..  I search for "tar" and don't even find any match on the page12:02
robclarkahh, wait, wrong url12:02
ogra_using the same link ?12:02
robclarknm, my bad12:03
amitkrobclark: have you tried the linaro nano images?12:03
robclarkhmm, no12:04
robclarkamitk, linaro nano images, one can still 'sudo apt-get install'?12:04
amitkrobclark: yes12:06
amitkrobclark: they are stripped down headless12:06
amitkrobclark: https://wiki.linaro.org/Cycles/1108/Release#Developers_and_Community_Builds12:06
robclarkok, cool..12:06
amitkogra_: it would be interesting to know the ubuntu-core and nano and combine them12:08
amitkogra_: *know the difference between12:08
=== asac_ is now known as asac
LPhashello, i've a question. i don't really need gdm and gnome on my pandaboard, so i would like to be able to run startx as a user on boot, instead of getting gdm start. how can i do that?13:04
ndecogra_: hey. what's the ubuntu core image exactly?13:12
sijiLPhas, yes you can13:16
ogra_ndec, it is not an image, it is close to what you would get by using debootstrap to create a chroot13:23
ogra_just a tarred up chroot without any setup or configuration13:23
ndechow is it built?13:24
ogra_using live-build like all other images13:24
ndecwhich packages are installed? ubuntu-minimal?13:25
ogra_less i think, aks infinity or look at the manifest files of the daily13:25
infinityndec: More or less debootstrap --minbase ... Which is a LOT less than ubuntu-minimal.13:26
infinityndec: And I suspect I'll strip it down further at some point.13:26
ndecok. what's the purpose of this image, well tarball13:26
ndecand what's the uncompressed size on SD?13:27
infinityIt's for people to build their own random systems around.  Tiny rootfses as a starting point is a pretty common use case in the (pseudo-)embedded space.13:27
infinityHonestly, it's something I except most people to ignore. ;)13:27
infinityBut it can be handy at times (I installed my ac100 with it).13:27
ogra_way to much effort to actually make it proper13:28
infinityUncompressed size right now is 110M or so?  I think?13:28
ogra_wow, that big ?13:28
infinityogra_: Well, making it "work" it just a kernel, a bootloader, and setting up /etc/{hosts,resolv.conf}13:28
infinityBut making it useful is a bit more effort for most. :P13:28
ogra_creating a user, making sure tz and locale are correct etc13:29
* infinity nods.13:29
ogra_loopback networking too ...13:29
* ogra_ always forgets half of it unless he has to implement it somewhere13:29
LPhassiji, thank you... how?13:30
ndeci am one of these guys that make custom derived ubuntu images , hence my interest ;-)13:31
ogra_ndec, well, better use the server image as a base or so13:34
infinityogra_: Oh, and it's about 96M now, not 110.  Apparently.13:35
ndeci am just wanted to make sure i know what it is.. for now, i have been quite happy with the regular desktop images. as i told you in the past we 'chroot' them to install our packages so that it becomes a custom pre installed image. and it's been enough for now13:35
ogra_yeah, i think i remember 80 from some years ago using minbase ...13:35
infinityAnd the "which image to use" question depends on what you intend to do with it.  If you want it to have an installer, core's probably not for you.13:35
ogra_i guess if we dropped all the drm libs it will be around that again13:35
infinitycore is for people who start from scratch, build a "perfect" gold image of exactly what they want, and then burn it to each device on its way out the door.13:36
infinityThat sort of use case.13:36
infinityLike I said, pretty common in the (semi-)embedded space, pretty rare in the rest of the world these days.13:37
* ogra_ builds the first ac100 rootfs 13:39
ogra_lets see if infinity's tarball handling in live-buildd works :)13:40
infinityDefine "works".  It's pretty sketchy. ;)13:41
amitkinfinity: are you talking to the linaro team where they are doing nano images?13:42
infinityamitk: Oddly enough, "nano" images never came up during the week I was actually in the same room with them.13:42
amitkinfinity: that is why irc is so much better ;)13:43
ogra_infinity, well, i just run "ARCHES=armel+ac100 buildlive ubuntu daily-preinstalled" on antimony ... if a vmlinuz, rootfs and initrd come out at the rearend i call that "works" :)13:44
infinityogra_: That doesn't sound like it would produce a tarball.13:45
ogra_infinity, why not? for ac100 the filesystem is defined as plain13:46
ogra_it should just dtrt if i didnt misunderstand the code13:46
infinityWell, assuming buildlive has any concept of any of that.13:47
ogra_and it didnt fail yet13:47
ogra_i added it to buildlive, yes13:47
infinityIt might just work, then.  I'll be pleasantly surprised. :)13:48
ogra_(if a build survives 30min it usually finishes ... i'm 20min in)13:48
infinityOh, it'll finish on the buildd side, no issues.  I'm more curious about what happens after that.13:48
ogra_nothing yet13:49
ogra_i only call buildlive atm, debian-cd doesnt have any post processing code yet13:49
infinityBut I guess I did hook support for plain into find/download-live-filesystem and such, so it should probably DTRT.13:49
ogra_i sould only find a tarball, initrd and kernel in the right dir under /srv/cdimage ...13:49
ogra_if it doesnt i'll fix it (thats why i'm doing this testbuild atm)13:50
ogra_the live-build documentation is nearly unusable imho13:52
infinityThere's documentation?13:52
ogra_man live-build or live-build -h doesnt get you any info13:52
infinity(Yeah, it's awful)13:52
LPhasplease any idea on how to execute startx as a user on boot?13:52
ogra_only the sub-script manpages will13:52
infinityLPhas: You mean manually?13:52
ogra_use a display manager and configure autologin ...13:53
cipheris there a way, given a node in /dev, to lookup more information about that device?13:53
LPhasogra_, why should i use a display manager? O_O13:53
ogra_because you want x to function properly :)13:53
cipheri.e. some function F('/dev/foo') that gives info such as: that's a usb device, or that's a tty13:53
infinityBecause DMs do autologin already.13:53
LPhasbasically i want to do what with the old good init i do with13:54
LPhasx:5:once:/bin/su - -- PREFERRED_USER -l -c '/usr/bin/startx </dev/null >/dev/null 2>&1'13:54
ogra_and also care for setting up the envioronment13:54
ogra_LPhas, so just do the same with upstart then13:54
LPhasi can't understand upstart13:54
LPhasi don't know bash13:54
sijiLPhas, if you are using ubuntu13:54
infinityLPhas: /etc/init/tty*.conf ... Change one to do what you want instead of spawn getty.13:55
sijiyou can do autologin by adding exec /sbin/mingetty --autologin exnxt tty1 --Only for Console AutoLogin13:55
LPhasinfinity, let's try13:56
LPhassiji, this look to be console autologin13:57
ogra_LPhas, just use what you used before for startx13:58
ogra_exec bin/su - -- PREFERRED_USER -l -c '/usr/bin/startx13:58
ogra_exec /bin/su - -- PREFERRED_USER -l -c '/usr/bin/startx13:58
ogra_that should just work13:58
ogra_though i dont think infinity is right, you cant use the tty.conf scripts, they start on the wrong event so you might miss bots in the system13:59
infinityogra_: gdm starts before tty* in our usual setup, it should be fine.13:59
infinityogra_: (Try it sometime, boot your laptop and when GDM comes up, hit the consoles, getty's still not running)14:00
ogra_start on (filesystem14:00
ogra_          and started dbus14:00
ogra_          and (drm-device-added card0 PRIMARY_DEVICE_FOR_DISPLAY=114:00
ogra_               or stopped udevtrigger))14:00
ogra_stop on runlevel [016]14:00
ogra_emits starting-dm14:00
ogra_you will likely need all that14:00
ogra_especially the emits14:00
ogra_since other scripts look for it14:00
sijiogra_, you mean modifying tty*.conf is not the right method14:01
ogra_i mean that tty.conf likely has the wrong events14:01
sijihere am doing some experiments on the same14:01
infinityNone of the DM or session events should matter if your goal is to have a single X.14:02
sijiTrying to run XBMC in autostart14:02
ogra_well, the above snippet is actually from a display manager .conf file14:02
infinityIf you have other services listening for those events, they'll fail regardless. :P14:02
infinityogra_: Yes, I know, but "startx" isn't a DM.14:02
infinityogra_: And it doesn't actually provide session or dm services.14:02
* infinity shrugs.14:03
ogra_thats why you need the "started dbus" event14:03
infinityOnly if you use dbus.14:03
ogra_might be that you have a started dbus anyway by reacing runlevel214:03
infinity(He was saying he was going GNOME-free and the whole nine yards)14:03
ogra_which nearly all desktops do today14:03
ogra_oh, ok14:03
ogra_if there is no desktop, dbus might not matter14:04
infinityStill, as I said, our current tty stuff (that just runs on [23]) starts well after our DMs do, so...14:04
infinityIt's probably fine. :)14:04
ogra_but if you use any app that needs a session bus you are screwed14:04
sijiogra_, it seems like my prblm is also same14:04
sijii have made autologin by modifying tty1.conf14:05
sijithen in my DM (xfce) created a *.desktop file for autostart XBMC14:05
sijiand XBMC starts working but, while I pressed any keys in keyboard the application is hanging14:06
infinityogra_: You lose.14:06
infinityThe following packages have unmet dependencies: ubuntuone-client-gnome : Depends: ubuntuone-client (= 1.7.0-0ubuntu2) but 1.7.1-0ubuntu1 is to be installed unity : Depends: unity-common (= 4.6.0-0ubuntu2) but 4.6.0-0ubuntu4 is to be installed14:06
sijibut mouse is working fine14:06
ogra_infinity, i dont ! i have a logfile now !!! :)14:06
infinityogra_: Heh.14:06
ogra_BAH !!!14:08
* ogra_ curses the archive being totally out of sync14:08
ogra_no way to build test images with that ... grmbl14:08
ogra_ubuntu-one ... and unity are both broken14:09
infinityThey both build quickly enough.14:10
infinityOr are they FTBFS?14:10
* infinity looks.14:10
ogra_i dont think they are14:11
ogra_unity was just uploaded today ... arch all should already be ready ... any is missing as usual14:11
infinityunity is. :/14:11
ogra_so no way for me to make FF with ac10014:11
infinityOh, because of libnux skew.14:11
ogra_yeah, as usual14:12
infinityOn armel and PPC.14:12
ogra_not sure whats up with ubuntuone14:12
infinityAnd boost...14:12
ogra_it already caused failed images last night14:12
ogra_is there a way to build server without preinstalled pool ?14:12
* ogra_ ponders to move on with server images to get around that ... but i dont want to waste time on a 300MB pool 14:13
infinityNot without editing auto/config currently.14:13
ogra_hmm, k14:13
infinityNot sure that's a feature I care to add, since the only time you'd want that is when testing locally...14:13
infinityAnd for local testing, you can edit the config. :P14:13
ogra_oh, i actually wonder ...14:14
ogra_---what happens if i use ubuntu-core as a flavour14:14
ogra_would i still get a kernel/initrd with the tarball ?14:14
* ogra_ tries for laughs14:14
ogra_lets see if i kill antimony with that :P14:15
infinityYou really won't.14:15
infinityGet kernels, I mean.14:15
infinityActually... You might.14:15
ogra_why ? depends if the subarch code overrides your plain code14:15
infinitySince core defines the no kernel business before the subarches happen.14:15
ogra_i was hoping so14:15
ogra_what does -core end up with for root ?14:16
ogra_locked or just no passwd ?14:16
infinityNo password.14:16
infinityI think.14:16
ogra_like debian then ?14:16
infinityTo be fair, I'm not positive.14:16
ogra_because i think that is modified in ubuntu14:16
infinityActually, it's probably just locked out of the box.14:16
ogra_so if you dont override that default it will be locked14:16
infinityI dunno, I use it as a chroot, what's a password? :)14:17
infinity(And it's meaningless as an installation image too, since part of installation is creating a user and/or setting a password)14:17
infinitySo, yeah.  Probably locked, but never checked.14:17
infinityI wonder what "--linux-packages=none --linux-flavours=ac100" will do to live-build's tiny brain.14:18
infinityCause that's what you're going to end up with.14:19
ogra_am i ?14:19
infinityShould do.14:19
infinityPlus explcitely installing the packages anyway.14:19
infinityThe tarball will be right.14:19
infinityI'm just curious how it will handle those two options.14:19
infinityWe'll find out.14:19
ogra_well, the subarch code uses add_package14:19
infinityFor science!14:19
infinityYeah, subarch uses add_package, which gets the files on disk.  But then later, you get --linux-flavours=$FLAVOUR if $FLAVOUR is set.14:20
infinityFor core, that's normally none, but it got set to SUBARCH.14:20
infinityBut core also set --linux-packages to none to work around some other misfeature.14:20
infinityAnd I'm too lazy to trace and see what happens when those two conflict. :)14:20
* ogra_ wants livecd.sh back !14:20
infinityYeah, me too.14:21
ogra_silly complex crap14:21
infinityI can't help but feel like we've mostly reimplemented livecd-rootfs in auto/{config,build}, and we're just using live-build as a super complex debootstrap wrapper. :/14:21
infinityBut whatever.14:21
ogra_thats what we do, yeah14:22
infinityMaybe we'll move more and more into the core functionality and work around fewer and fewer misfeatures over time and learn to love it.14:22
ogra_i think that was colins initial plan14:22
infinityHis plan was to learn to love it? :)14:22
ogra_no, to move livecd-rootfs into live-build over time14:24
LPhasare there any enviroment differences between lauching a program with Alt-F2 (run program) and starting a gnome-terminal and launching from it?14:30
ogra_bug 82397114:34
ubot2Launchpad bug 823971 in ac100 "Enhancement: Suggestion to use jffs2 Filesystem" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/82397114:34
infinityogra_: Oh, the ubuntuone-client-gnome thing isn't arm arcive skew.14:37
infinityogra_: The ubuntuone kids just completely removed client-gnome. :P14:38
infinityogra_: So, time for some seed updates.14:38
infinity    - Removed ubuntuone-client-gnome deps and binary packaging, as it was14:38
infinity      moved out to separate project upstream.14:38
infinityMaybe not time for seed updates, maybe time to go hunting through the NEW queue...14:38
* infinity hunts.14:39
ogra_why the heck dont theys notify anyone ?14:39
infinityAnd I see no new sources...14:40
infinitySo, we just have broken image builds.14:40
ogra_you shoudl put yourself in the notification list on cdimage :P14:42
ogra_sycamore.buildd finished at Wed Aug 10 14:42:05 UTC 2011 (failed)14:43
ogra_(that was core)14:44
ogra_hmm, i dont get the prompt back14:45
ogra_infinity, heh, so it finishesd and i see it installing abootimg, linux-ac100 and friends ... but it fails with "ls: cannot access vmlinu?-*: no such file or directory"14:49
ogra_so i guess it wipes /boot somewhere14:50
* ogra_ wonders if running find on /srv/cdimage.ubuntu.com/scratch/ was a bad idea ... runs since 10min now14:52
ogra_i dont really see where it removes vmlinuz15:02
ogra_got it15:06
ogra_so --linux-flavours=none doesnt seem to be set, else it wouldnt move to the ls that fails15:06
ogra_KVERS="$( (cd "binary/$INITFS"; ls vmlinu?-*) | sed -n "s/^vmlinu.-\\([^-]*-[^-]*-$FLAVOUR\\)$/\\1/p" )"15:08
ogra_do i misread that line or does it actually expect /vmlinuz-$vers-$flavour instead of /boot/vmlinuz-....15:09
infinityogra_: No, cause INITFS should be boot.15:13
ogra_oh, ok15:13
infinityOh, depending on what LB_INITRAMFS is set to...15:13
infinityWhich I'm not sure about for core, since it has none, so I probably didn't follow that codepath.15:14
ogra_ah, that might not be set correctly given i do something weird :)15:14
infinityWhat, with core not actually requiring a kernel at all.15:14
ogra_well, i see it being generated in the log15:14
ogra_so /boot should have vmlinuz and initrd files15:14
ogra_it just seems like lb doesnt know about that :)15:15
infinityRight, but INITFS is set based on LB_INITRAMFS and lord knows what that's set to.15:15
ogra_well, its sad to see it getting that far and then fail15:16
ogra_its really in its very last stages there15:16
infinityOh, wait, no.15:16
infinity*scratch head*15:16
infinityINITFS is boot for core, that's fine.15:17
infinityThat's not the boot you think it is.15:17
ogra_well, indeed i want the boot where linux-image unpacked vmlinuz to :)15:17
* infinity tries to sort out where these kenrels get copied around...15:18
infinityI suspect it's just live-build not copying kernels out because of the linux-*=whatever confusion.15:18
infinitySo, ultimately... Don't use core for this. :P15:18
infinityOr test locally with a hacked-up auto/config15:19
ogra_but we dont have headless either anymore15:19
ogra_hmm, or do we15:19
* ogra_ looks 15:19
infinityWe don't.15:19
infinityBut testing this on the buildds seems silly anyway.15:19
infinityYou get much better turnaround testing locally on x86, then doing one final local test on arm.15:19
infinityWell, assuming you have a reasonably close or local mirror..15:20
ogra_i need to know the structure of the dump the buildd gets me to move on15:20
ogra_thats all i'm after atm15:20
ogra_and thats why i do it on the buildd, i surely wont run a local debian-cd to do debian-cd development for the post-boot scripts15:20
infinityIn theory, it should look the same as a mix of core and live.15:20
infinityThat is, the rootfs will look like cores output, but the kernels should look the same as what live's doing.15:21
ogra_i dont need core, i just tried it because desktop is blocking me atm15:21
* infinity nods.15:21
ogra_i will do server, that just takes longer15:21
ogra_but should get me building images and accurate output files15:21
* infinity spots a thinko in his auto/build ...15:22
infinityOr, rather, a place where I have a (correct) hardcoded value that should probably be a variable, to match everything else.15:22
infinityBut harmless.15:22
* ogra_ fires off an ac100 server build15:23
ogra_EEEKK !!!!!!!!!15:25
infinityThat's not a good sound.15:25
ogra_building ubuntu-server gets me a germinat traceback in the log !!!!15:25
infinityI had considered making redirecting the germinate call, but I figure it might be handy for debugging some day.15:26
infinitys/making //15:26
ogra_well, you need to proceed the seed somehow to get the ship seed, no ?15:26
infinityThe logs aren't meant to be pretty anyway. :P15:26
infinityWell, yes.  We need to run germinate.15:27
ogra_i dont care about the logs, my build dies after about 10sec with germinate failing15:27
infinityErr, really?15:27
ogra_giving me a key error15:27
infinityLocal, or on a buildd?15:27
ogra_take a look at sycamores logs15:27
infinityCurious.  Last night's server-omap4 ran fine.15:29
ogra_seeds might have changed today15:29
infinityA local germinate run is just as broken, though.15:29
infinitySo, someone just broke the seeds, I guess.15:30
ogra_key error smells like it15:30
infinityOr.  What?15:30
* infinity blinks.15:30
ndecogra_: i think i asked you already... but i forgot ;-) when using unity2D which WM is used? metacity?15:31
infinitySomething on lillypilly just went very pear-shaped.15:32
ogra_you broke it !15:32
ndecdavidm: hi there. any news on the global availability of ARM PPA15:32
infinityOr I can't type.15:32
infinityThere, that's better.15:32
infinityYes, broken seeds.15:32
davidmndec, none yet, IS is working on intergrating the first builder15:33
ogra_alison broke them15:33
infinityogra_: Yeah, I see the commit that's broken, but it's not immediately obvious to me what broke it. :P15:37
infinityogra_: You found the issue?15:37
ogra_nope, i pinged colin, i dont really know about all the inheritance stuff15:38
ogra_it seems ot be a completely new seed15:38
GrueMasterogra_: Do we still need the mem= lines on panda?  I haven't seen any issues lately, and the netinstall doesn't add them.15:39
infinityIt is.15:39
ogra_GrueMaster, we need them for ducati (multimedia)15:39
ogra_so we still need them on the desktop15:39
ogra_server, not so much15:39
ogra_ducati requires a memory hole at the right place iirc (we should check if thats still at the right position nowadays though)15:40
ndecso you don't want to use the server image for transcoding video?15:42
ogra_if people use it like that they should adjust boot.script :)15:42
infinityIf there's a piece of hardware on this that requires the memory hole, we should have it there regardless of installation type...15:43
ndecwe should update boot.script in the ducati package as postinst and force a flash-kernel and reboot ;-)15:43
infinity(We should probably just have the kernel doing it by default)15:43
ndecinfinity: it's a s/w limitation, not h/w15:44
infinityndec: How so?15:44
ndecwe reserve come carve out memory for a special h/w accelerator, the physical address reserved in hard coded in the kernel...15:44
infinityNone of that sounds like a software limitation to me...15:45
ndecwell, the h/w does not require the memory hole. it's our s/w design that requires it15:46
infinityAs in, we could be talking to it directly somehow, instead of mmapping it in system RAm?15:46
infinityI would have assumed this is just how it's designed to be done.15:47
infinityEither way, my point was that if the hardware's there, and if that addressing technique is our only way to talk to it, we should just have the hole on by default and be done with it.15:47
ndeci would tend to agree... the counter argument is that you are wasting 50Mb of RAM for the server image, and that might be important too...15:48
* infinity shrugs.15:49
infinityomap4 isn't a serious server platform anyway.  Losing 50MB to make sure all the hardware is doing the right thing from userspace's POV feels right to me.15:49
infinityAnd, as you point out, omap4 as a media server is probably a more likely use-case than as an HPC cluster.15:50
infinityJust a guess. ;)15:50
ndeci personally don't care too much (now) about the omap4 server image anyways ;-)15:51
infinityWell, it's just a proof-of-concept anyway.15:51
infinityBut I could see repurposing my Panda as a set-top-box once I get "real" ARM server kit in here for other server testing.15:51
ndecand guess what if you had installed the server image *without* the memory hole in bootargs, and convert it as set-top-box then video won't work because the hole is for the video accelerator!15:53
ogra_pfft, details15:54
infinityBut yes, I still think the boot args are a silly, messy, and error-prone waste of space.  If the kernel knows where that hole should be, we should just have the kernel set it up by default.15:55
infinityAnd people could use a mem= line to override and undo that if they really know what they're doing and care deeply about the 50MB.15:55
infinityrsalveti: Thought on the above?15:58
* rsalveti reading16:01
=== XorA is now known as XorA|gone
GrueMasterI like that idea.  We are limited to the amount of characters on the kernel cmdline, removing the two mem= lines helps considerably.16:37
GrueMaster(my cmdline length issue is PXE boot netinstall w/ preseed mainly).16:38
ndeccan we setup the memory map from the kernel?16:59
rsalvetiogra_: infinity: we've being using with the 50MB hole at natty even without any working multimedia modules ;-)17:10
rsalvetifor me it feels ok to just remove it and use the whole 1gb for a server image17:11
rsalvetiif someone would like to setup the ti ppa, it'll probably need to do it by hand anyway17:11
ogra_rsalveti, well, the discussion was about moving the option as a default into the kernel instead of having a cmdline option for it17:11
rsalvetiso we just document the changes at the boot.args and be ok with it17:11
rsalvetithis feels wrong17:12
rsalvetias it's a software limitation17:12
ogra_you should be able to override the default with your own mem settings indeed17:15
rsalvetibut having the hole as a default option seems wrong for me17:17
rsalvetidefault should be everything17:17
rsalvetias it's the user choice to use ducati and so on17:17
rsalvetias it's not free software17:17
ogra_but we would default to make the device non functional17:18
ogra_imho all HW on the board should work by default17:18
rsalvetiogra_: but this is a sw limitation :-) and to enable it you have to use closed source components17:19
rsalvetithat's why enabling it by default seems wrong for me17:19
ogra_well, the closed source components wont work if it isnt set17:19
rsalvetiare we having the closed source components for oneiric?17:20
ogra_we will17:20
rsalvetiwe didn't have for natty, and all images have the useless 50mb hole17:20
ogra_likely post release but its planned17:20
rsalvetiproblem is that we can't change the bootargs easily17:21
rsalvetiotherwise this wouldn't be a problem17:22
rsalvetionce the user installed the extra packages17:22
rsalvetibut for a normal user, wanting to use the server image or just using it with free software, making him lose 50mb for nothing seems wrong :-)17:22
infinityIt's just 50MB.17:33
infinityI'd rather lose 50MB that no one will even notice or care about than have people complain that something doesn't work right.17:34
infinityAnd server on this hardware is a proof-of-concept, not a finely-tuned machine. :P17:34
infinityOh my, feature freeze is here already.  How time flies when you miss the beginning of a cycle.18:40
=== mayday_jay is now known as mayday_jay-away
=== mayday_jay-away is now known as mayday_jay
martynhey, where can I find a listing of the Canonical sprints?21:32
martynI just found out there was one going on here in Austin21:32
GrueMastermartyn: They are on an internal wiki and only by invitation to outside members of the community.  Sorry.21:39
martynAhhh .. okay, I thought they would be up on Fridge21:39
GrueMasterThey are mainly for us to get face time with our coworkers.  Most companies that work out of offices don't have the collaboration issues that working from home does (nor do they have some of the freedoms - like sitting in on a meeting in your pajamas).21:42
GrueMasterThey're great for cross-team pollination of ideas/solutions.21:43
martynYep, and in the case of the Austin sprint .. a great way to get exposed to some heat.. (22:00
martynit's 107F today :)22:00

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