hoovermorning folks07:40
daubersWoot, just 231MiB left till my local mirror's downloaded for oggcamp07:43
MartijnVdSdaubers: that's like 2 minutes download time07:54
daubersMartijnVdS: Not while downloading all the Ubuntu CD isos and all the Fedora isos :)07:58
daubersNeed to grab the kubuntu isos too07:59
MartijnVdSdaubers: time for fibre ;)08:00
MartijnVdSdaubers: (I'm assuming disk bandwidth isn't the issue on your setups ;))08:00
daubersMartijnVdS: Definatley not :) It's just interwebs bandwidth08:01
JamesTaitGood morning all!08:30
GreenDanceHi, does the system memory clean it's cache by itself?08:51
GreenDancei.e. is there a set time for it to happen?08:51
GreenDancei ask because if i type free -t -m the used space doesnt seem to go down08:52
Myrttiuk today \o/08:52
GreenDanceI have to force clean cache for the used memory to go down :\08:55
popeyGreenDance: why would you want to force clear the cache?08:59
daubersGreenDance: It'll cache some IO stuff for a while in order to speed up disk access on frequently used files08:59
daubersGreenDance: Also, if you force flush the cache, make sure you "sync" first08:59
GreenDanceso it's normal for the used memory to be high-per-say08:59
daubersGreenDance: "high" is a relative term :)09:00
GreenDanceUsed: 428mb, after flush, 161mb09:01
GreenDancebig difference ?09:01
popeywhy do you care?09:02
daubersGreenDance: That would probably be normal09:02
popeycache is something the kernel manages09:02
GreenDancepopey, I was trying to compare how much memory is used by ubuntu to xubuntu to lubuntu09:03
GreenDancepopey, I've read some stories before that gnome is a memory hog09:03
GreenDancepopey, so I was trying to see for myself09:04
Myrttiunless you really run out, its not a problem09:05
GreenDancethe reason I was trying to compare was because some stories I've read say ubuntu is suitable for old pcs while others say it isn't09:06
GreenDancepopey, ?09:07
GreenDancedaubers, what do you think?09:09
davmor2morning all09:10
popeywhat are you trying to run it on GreenDance ?09:10
GreenDancemorning davmor209:11
GreenDancepopey, P3 500, 256mb ram09:11
davmor2just need to send out a mail to see if the lug want to meet in wolvo town center tonight I'm going to say not but hey they might surprise me :D09:11
GreenDancewhy do the ubuntu team try to shove so many extra programs onto the cd installed?09:17
GreenDancei.e. why can't their just be a bare bone install of ubuntu09:17
Myrttiwhy not fill it?09:17
Myrttithere is always minimal install09:17
GreenDanceMyrtti, why fill it?09:17
lubotu3The Minimal CD image is very small in size, and it downloads most packages from the Internet during installation, allowing you to select only those you want (the installer is like the one on the !Alternate CD). See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/MinimalCD09:18
GreenDanceMyrtti, that's a long winded way to get a bare bone install though09:18
popey^^^ new 3G dongle09:18
GreenDancepopey, P3 500, 256mb ram09:18
popeyGreenDance: they dont "shove" "extra" programs on the CD09:19
popeythere's one mail client, one browser, one office suite, one network connectivity tool09:19
popeyGreenDance: I wouldn't run Ubuntu on that09:19
brobostigonGreenDance: i would try debian on a machine that minimal, ubuntu may still be way to heavy.09:19
GreenDancepopey, when I mean "shove" i mean the standard ubuntu install is full to the brim of a cdr09:19
GreenDancedoes it have to be?09:19
popeyGreenDance: yes, and if we could fit more on it we would09:19
brobostigonor that Myrtti, yes :)09:19
popeyGreenDance: other distros are available09:20
oimonor maybe just a cli with 256mb ram09:20
GreenDancepopey, but why?09:20
popeybecause people want it09:20
popeypeople want a functional live cd09:20
popeyif you dont, then use something else09:20
popeyor spin your own iso image09:20
GreenDancepopey, but it's not giving people choice of who want to use ubuntu09:20
Myrttibecause people need a browser, email client and an office suite...09:20
popeysoftware centre is pre-installed09:21
popeyplenty of choice09:21
MyrttiGreenDance: as I said, there is always mini.iso09:21
popeyI think you're missing the point of ubuntu09:21
oimonmost people are running on substantially better hardware than 10yr old machine..you can get 5yr old machines for free if you look around09:21
GreenDancepopey, yes software centre is pre installed, that's lots of choice, but surely it would be better to allow people the choice during install say "Full Install" or "Minimal Ubuntu Install" (Gnome)09:22
popeyI disagree09:22
GreenDancepopey, how so?09:22
popeyI disagree that your proposal would be "better"09:23
GreenDancepopey, say for example somone wanted ubuntu and just firefox, nothing else, they need to go through the process of uninstalling everything else if they only want gnome and firefox09:23
davmor2GreenDance: you can try lubuntu or xubuntu on a machine that minimal09:23
popeyGreenDance: so the whole ubuntu cd should be tailored for that _one_ use case?09:24
popey(it's not a common use case)09:24
oimonGreenDance: it seems that you are in the minority. however ubuntu allows you to make your own "respin" of customised ubuntu.09:24
popeyand ubuntu can be configured in a kiosk mode, which boots directly to a browser if you want it09:25
oimoni've done that and it isn't much work either09:25
GreenDanceoimon / popey , let's say 1,000 sys admins go to install ubuntu in their businesses, there boses say, just a system os and browser, each then have to spend the time to re-spin ubuntu before installing on the machines09:26
popeyagain, not common09:26
MartijnVdSthey'd have to anyway, for centralized authentication, etc.09:26
popeyor use mini iso as Myrtti suggests09:26
GreenDancethe problem with the mini cd is the time it takes to re-spin it09:27
popeyre spin?09:27
GreenDancebuild a custom iso09:27
popeywhy would you respin a 50Mb CD09:27
popeythats not what the mini iso is for09:27
Myrttimini installs the minimal system09:28
popeythe alternate cd has the option to install a minimal system too09:28
popeyand you can then "apt-get install firefox" :D09:28
Myrttiafter that it is trivial to have it install what you want09:28
GreenDancepopey, what about gnome?09:28
popeywhat about gnome?09:28
Myrttioh man...09:29
oimonthis is a pointless discussion09:29
GreenDancepopey, with a minimal install, if you install ubuntu-gnome (i've forgot the name) it installs a full ubuntu system09:29
GreenDancegames etc...09:29
popeyubuntu-desktop does09:29
popey"Other packages are available"09:29
* Myrtti goes to finish packing her luggage09:29
GreenDancepopey, is there just a package for a basic gnome 2.30?09:30
popeyprobably, yeah09:30
GreenDanceI've never been able to locate it09:31
GreenDanceit must be hiding somewhere09:31
daubersGreenDance: gnome-desktop-environment                                    - The GNOME Desktop Environment09:31
daubers!info gnome-desktop-environment09:31
lubotu3gnome-desktop-environment (source: meta-gnome2): The GNOME Desktop Environment. In component universe, is optional. Version 1:2.30+7ubuntu3 (natty), package size 2 kB, installed size 48 kB09:31
popeylooks good09:31
GreenDance48 kB?09:31
oimonit's a meta pacakge09:32
MartijnVdSGreenDance: metapackage09:32
GreenDancethanks for that daubers09:32
daubersGreenDance: It's a meta package, will depend on all the other bits09:32
oimonThis package depends on the standard set of applications that are part of the official GNOME release09:32
oimonapt-cache show gnome-desktop-environment09:32
daubersGreenDance: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/662493/ <- shows what it depends on09:33
ali1234GreenDance: i fully agree with you09:33
ali1234and btw, software centre is worse than no choice at all09:33
oimonanyone who has the desire to do this , also has the expertise to get the alternate installer cd and do what they wish09:34
GreenDancethank you ali123409:34
ali1234the alternate installer makes me lol09:34
ali1234customizing each and every installation manually... yeah right09:34
ali1234it's the exact same brush off that users have been getting over desktop environments, actually09:37
ali1234"oh, you don't like unity or gnome 3? well, you should just use a terminal then, you would like that"09:37
popeyoh please09:37
popeythe vast majority of people dont need a custom install09:37
oimonother desktop environments are only an apt-get away09:37
popeythose that do (cited by GreenDance as IT professionals) have sufficient clue to do it09:37
ali1234apparently there's no middle ground, you either use the plastic clown scissors, or the machete, we can't have *anything* in between09:38
daubersali1234: You do, of course, have the choice to fork gnome and keep it maintained09:38
popeyThere's plenty of room in between09:39
popeyI was citing two main groups09:39
GreenDancedaubers, fork gnome, that would be a headake, as so I've read.09:39
daubersGreenDance: Indeed, but the option is there. There is nothing physically stopping someone from doing it. They just have to accept that most application developers will probably move across to the new toolkits09:40
daubersso they'll need to backport09:40
ali1234daubers: the necessity of forking gnome is yet another false dichotomy09:40
daubersali1234: Never said it was necessary, just said you have the choice :) You're putting words in my terminal now09:40
oimoni think kde4 might have beautified a bit. kde 3.5 continuation project AKA trinity is looking ugly http://www.trinitydesktop.org/screenshots.php09:41
GreenDancepopey, personally what I can't understand is, during the ubuntu install, if someone selected "Ubuntu, Gnome, Firefox" why can't the ubuntu installer simply purge the extra's from the live image?, then we have the middle, more people have more choice, surely that can't be hard to include into the cd installer?09:41
daubersGreenDance: And you confuse newer uses as to what "Gnome" is?09:41
oimonGreenDance: heard of debian?09:41
GreenDanceoimon, of course09:41
oimonsounds more up your street09:41
oimonubuntu + gnome + firefox doesn't sound like ubuntu to me09:42
GreenDanceali1234, seems to be the only one who understands me09:42
GreenDanceoimon, the point i'm trying to make is allow easy choice09:43
oimonif i don't like banshee or shotwell i have an easy choice09:43
oimonapt-get remove09:43
daubersGreenDance: But that's not easy as it increases the initial learning curve for new people and non-technical people (i.e. the majority)09:43
oimonever wondered why/how the ubuntu install image isntalls so quickly?09:43
popeyGreenDance: I understand you, I just disagree09:44
GreenDancegrab the latest ubuntu, no hastle, insert cd, minimal desktop enviroment, job done09:44
daubersGreenDance: "Ubuntu is rubbish because I can't open my documents from Windows", "Ubuntu is rubbish because it can't deal with my Photos like $otheros does"09:45
davmor2GreenDance: easy choice of WHAT!  there are a bunch of cd's kubuntu, lubuntu, xubuntu, edubuntu, server, minimal, mythbuntu and ubuntu studio  Those are just the official ones there are others on top of that09:45
daubersGreenDance: Thats the type of problem you'll introduce to the majority of users09:45
ali1234davmor2: most of those aren't actually official09:45
oimonstandard ubuntu install copies an image onto your machine, it doesn't do much configuration. nobody would put up with a 5x slower install for your sake09:46
davmor2ali1234: all of those are the official ones, the ones that have passed the TB meetings and have there iso's on canonical servers09:46
ali1234daubers: yet when people say "ubuntu is rubbish because the buttons are not in the same place as $otheros" then they are wrong, right?09:46
ali1234unless $otheros is OS X09:46
bigcalmWow, that took a few attempts to get into freenode today09:47
gordo_O why would you leave?09:47
davmor2ali1234: they are also the ones that get tested by the qa volunteers and canonical staff on each release09:48
bigcalmI like to turn off machines at night that I'm not using (excluding servers) and can't be bothered to set up a proxy09:48
GreenDance(Connection reset by peer)09:48
GreenDanceI don't know what caused me to be reset by peer09:48
ali1234sounds like freenode is having problems today09:49
bigcalmGreenDance: problem with freenode I think. Took me a lot of effort to connect this morning09:49
GreenDancethanks for letting me know ali1234 bigcalm :)09:49
czajkowskibigcalm: not seen any annoucements as such09:51
ali1234GreenDance: you might actually like opensuse, it has a highly configurable installer09:51
ali1234unfortunately the installer is probably it's only good feature09:52
bigcalmczajkowski: might be a problem between VirginMedia and freenode :)09:52
ali1234bigcalm: that is also a possibility if they are still messing around with their packet shaper09:52
lubotu3another contentless ping... sigh...09:55
bigcalmTook a while09:55
ali1234extreme lag? packet shaper :(09:56
hooverali1234: I agree... opensuse considered harmful ;-)09:56
GreenDancepopey, would it be so hard for whoever maintains the ubuntu installer to code in an option for just gnome and firefox and purge the extras added in? it might be a small market of people who would want this, but every linux user counts09:57
ali1234GreenDance: it actually would be hard09:57
ali1234because the installer works by basically just copying the rootfs09:58
ali1234it doesn't work like the traditional debian installer at all09:58
ali1234now, if you use the alternate CD it would be possible09:58
ali1234just needs someone to throw together a seed file09:58
ali1234if there isn't already one that suits you09:58
ali1234but the problem with gnome is it's unmaintained now, and probably won't work properly with gtk309:59
ali1234and gnome3 is just ... well let's not even go there09:59
czajkowskibigcalm: you'll know if you get a wallop re freenode10:00
czajkowskithey annouce issues10:00
davmor2GreenDance: Ubuntu is aimed at new users they are likely to want to learn how to install stuff just to get the system they had in windows/mac os.   It is taylored to that and nothing else.  If you want a system that is different to that then you modify it the end!10:01
ali1234^ i thought it was supposed to be for everyone?10:01
davmor2s/likely/not likely10:01
ali1234anyway, i have to reboot to install this compiz patch10:01
ali1234so i'll stop trolling you now10:01
bigcalmczajkowski: indeed. But I wouldn't see any messages if I couldn't connect ;)10:02
ali1234you can't really say it's easy to make 11.04 act like windows... you have to put in a bunch of gconf hacks just to get the menus working right10:02
ali1234it's perfectly fine if ubuntu wants to differentiate itself10:03
ali1234i don't have a problem with that10:03
ali1234but the arguments used to justify it are just inconsistent with reality10:04
czajkowskiali1234: that was a quick reboot10:05
ali1234czajkowski: i'm having problems, apparently apt-add-repository doesn't import the PGP keys any more?10:05
ali1234or maybe it never did and update manager just never cared before10:05
ali1234in any case, i now have to mess about on the terminal just to get this (unofficial) fix installed10:05
davmor2ali1234: it never did it only does that if you install via software-sources.  You need to use the apt-key get or whatever the command is,  it tells you on the LP ppa page10:07
popeythats not true10:07
popeyadd-apt-repository _did_ used to get the key10:08
ali1234hmm i thought it did10:08
kazadeadd-apt-repository normally gets the key..10:08
popeyor am I on crack?10:08
kazadenot this time popey10:08
ali1234anyway problem solved, i just used apt-get10:08
ali1234now reboot time10:08
DavieyIt does still get the key10:09
popeyyup, just tested it here too10:10
davmor2my bag it's cause I cant use the add-apt-repo for the ppa's I need to add that's why I have to call the key fetch command10:11
Davieydavmor2: private PPA's?10:13
davmor2Daviey: slightly odder than that even :) but yes10:14
davmor2Daviey: Why?10:15
Davieydavmor2: just wondered10:15
DavieyAdding private ppa's is a pain, and i'm lazy10:15
=== denny- is now known as denny
Myrttiat the airport \o/10:32
davmor2Myrtti: you trying to tell me they are losing you out of the country? ;)10:33
daubersMyrtti: Travelling to Oggcamp?10:34
Myrttidaubers: yup :-D well, not only that, but yes.10:35
daubersMyrtti: \o/10:35
Myrttiits my bday gift to myself10:36
Myrttito be away from Finland10:36
davmor2Myrtti: Happy birthday (whenever it is / was)10:36
daubersMyrtti: Thats a call for cake if ever I've heard one10:37
davmor2daubers: I think you mean Chocolate Cake right :)10:37
MyrttiI accept all cake :-D10:37
daubersdavmor2: I dunno, I've really been craving a good victoria sponge recently10:37
Myrttiall cake10:38
davmor2daubers: http://farm1.static.flickr.com/156/361264218_64e0bc8b53.jpg10:41
* daubers drools10:41
daubersOnly 20 minutes until lunch!10:41
davmor2daubers: see betty crockers devils food cakes you put on weight looking at it10:42
daubersdavmor2: Thats mean10:44
davmor2Myrtti: how about you is that a cakes you could eat :)10:48
Cassull_I just heard there there 3 more deaths10:58
oimonCassull_: yes, although ironically things were much better last night10:59
Cassull_much better, how?11:00
oimonlondon was much quieter last night11:01
Cassull_hell, what is going on11:01
Myrttiwoo fighter planes11:01
oimonpeople were back on the trains and underground today11:02
Cassull_it's quite scary this whole Affair11:03
MyrttiI wonder did I remwmber my wool wrap... hmm11:03
oimonmy church pastor is speaking on bbc radio2 shortly http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio2/11:04
oimonstill getting gwibber crash in oneiric ..can't try out new gwibber yet :(11:26
davmor2oimon: what crash are you getting?11:28
oimonbug 81191511:28
lubotu3Launchpad bug 811915 in gwibber (Ubuntu) "gwibber-accounts crashed with TypeError in __init__(): Gtk.Window.set_icon_from_file() argument 1 must be string, not None" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/81191511:28
oimonsimilar to this11:28
MartijnVdSgee gwibber crashed?11:33
oimonit won't even start in the current alpha11:34
oimonfor a while now11:34
MartijnVdSsounds like gwibber to me11:34
davmor2MartijnVdS: Works fine for me.11:34
oimoni thought "new gwibber" was a rewrite11:34
MartijnVdSdavmor2: I could never get it to work11:34
davmor2oimon: have a word with Kenvandine on #ubuntu-desktop he might know a quick fix for you,  he is after oneiric users testing it so will be miffed that you can't, he may also ask for some logs to help fix it too etc11:35
davmor2oimon: he'll be on this afternoon at some point11:36
oimondavmor2: he commented on that bug on the 4th11:36
davmor2oimon: have you tried removing the pyc file listed?11:38
davmor2oimon: it might be that the pyc isn't being removed by updates so once removed it works maybe?11:39
oimondavmor2: :D11:40
oimoni had done a purge but didn't remove the crud..i didn't read every comment as well as you11:40
oimonworks now yay11:40
oimonno it just crashed :(11:40
davmor2oimon: Meh11:41
davmor2oimon: there is a debug mode you can call but I never remember the cli call that runs it unfortunately11:41
oimongot a bit further but still rather crappy11:42
oimonand freezing /going grey - looks like that feature was ported from old gwibber (bad)11:42
davmor2oimon: see I have no issues with mine and I did a fresh install of alpha3 though to check that the kernel fix for my wifi was working11:43
daubersbah, why is the kinder egg website down11:44
oimonworking again now, pkilled all old gwib processes11:44
davmor2oimon: might just of been a glitch then :(11:44
oimonhowever still awful performance and laggy/refreshing/freezing11:44
daubersdavmor2: I have now bought chocolate cake. I blame you11:46
davmor2daubers: hahaha11:46
davmor2oimon: See I used to have huge issue but now it's running really nice11:47
oimonthat would be nice11:47
oimonthe idea of gwibber is good, just the implementation always sucked too badly to use it in the past11:48
directhexhotot is nice11:49
davmor2oimon: this one is much lighter so I'm not sure why you are having such big issues unless it's the initial import that is the issue maybe11:49
oimondavmor2: is it still possible to see separate streams on new gwibber?11:59
oimoncan't see any option12:00
oimonso sad that one of the first looters to appear in court is a teacher :(12:13
MartijnVdSoimon: those are the worst! :P12:22
Laneydoes the u-uk minecraft server have mobs on?12:23
gordLaney, yup12:24
oimonwas gonna buy the humble indie bundle but got distracted by people rioting in my town. now it's closed :(12:30
popeyLaney: there's plenty of places to hide though12:30
oimoni like the look of "nad yet it moves" anyone played it?12:31
* hoover purchased HIB#1 and hasn't even installed a single game yet ;-)12:32
oimonhoover: not even world of goo? or did you already own it12:33
hooverI found out *after* the purchase that the androids game wasn't part of the deal, stupid me... it was only a playable demo12:33
oimontrying to get into braid12:33
hooverRemind me what titles were included again... might also have been HIB#2 or something different altogether12:33
oimonhas a little steep entry curve considering there's no manual etc12:33
directhexthere are four humble bundles, totalling about 25 games by now12:34
oimonmachinarium and osmos are really good12:34
* Laney has been playing crayon physics12:35
oimonhopefully the next HIB will include HIB312:36
oimonHIB also deserves support because it has brought games to linux that were previously windows only12:38
oimoncrayon physics is a good example12:39
davmor2oimon: not currently work over the weekend for that I think12:40
oimondavmor2: great :D12:40
davmor2oimon: I think that was what he was on about anyway :)12:41
ali1234hmm a bug12:43
ali1234who is using banshee?12:47
ali1234does the cover art resize properly for you?12:48
oimonshould it?12:50
MartijnVdSThe entire app just locks up every once in a while12:50
ali1234i think it should12:50
MartijnVdSand eats 400% CPU12:50
oimonMartijnVdS: i get that too12:50
ali1234because when i resize that panel the image just changes between a sharp and blurry image12:50
ali1234as if the image is being resized by current_width+(desired_width%2)12:50
oimonali1234: if i pull the left bar across the screen, the size grows to a 100x100 pic approx, looking good, then doesn't grow anymore - that what you mean?12:51
ali1234i will finish posting this bug rewport and then you can watch the video12:51
ali1234btw if i make the window smaller than the image the image doesn't get smaller12:52
oimonbanshee has more bugs than a bait shop12:52
* popey covers Laney's and directhex's ears12:53
directhexbugs without bug reports don't exist. QED.12:53
oimonbanshee has more bug reports than a bait shop12:54
ali1234lol, banshee has so many bug reports that it is almost impossible to determine whether a given bug has already been determined12:54
ali1234i mean reported12:54
Laneyforget launchpad, use bgo12:54
ali1234i will report it to both12:55
oimonali1234: like this one https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=54087312:55
ali1234bgo won't do anything unless i use a bleeding edge version of banshee anyway12:55
lubotu3Gnome bug 540873 in User Interface "Allow changing browser filters; add/remove genre, album artist, year, etc" [Enhancement,Assigned]12:55
ali1234even when the bug is trivial to reproduce12:55
oimonlet it be said that launchpad is approx 5 zillion times better than bugzilla12:55
ali1234there is no question of that12:56
ali1234bugzilla is a horrible horrible piece of software12:56
directhexredmine is super nice12:56
directhexshame it's RoR12:56
ali1234you can't even get a list of all the bugs you reported without defining your own db thrashing query in it's sick metaquery language12:56
oimoni use redmine for my work helpdesk system12:57
directhexredmine for ticket tracking? ooookay12:57
directhexi see it for a bug tracker, but as an rt replacement?12:57
oimonhas a nice UI12:58
oimonrt has a lame ui12:58
directhexlaunchpad's biggest problems aren't the interface anyway - it's the huge number of low-quality bugs in ubuntu's launchpad12:58
Laneythe massive imbalance in reporter / triager numbers12:59
lubotu3Ubuntu bug 823905 in banshee (Ubuntu) "banshee cover art does not resize properly" [Undecided,New]12:59
ali1234low quality bugs are a side effect of having a UI that normal people can actually use12:59
ali1234so, what do you think is going on in that video?13:00
ali1234if the cover art isn't supposed to fill the panel, why is it being scaled at all?13:00
ali1234if it isn't being scaled, why does it go blurry?13:00
davmor2oimon: you mean mulitcolumn view right?13:18
dogmatic69what can i do about 'Failed to fetch http://ppa.launchpad.net/zlj/test-daily/ubuntu/dists/maverick/main/source/Sources.gz'13:21
dogmatic69apt-get update does this13:21
marxjohnsondogmatic69: There doesn't appear to be a repo for Maverick: http://ppa.launchpad.net/zlj/test-daily/ubuntu/dists/ at least not any more13:21
dogmatic69what is that? any idea?13:22
davmor2dogmatic69: you installed it :)13:22
marxjohnsonIt's a PPA you've installed at some point13:22
dogmatic69apparently :D13:22
marxjohnsonyou'll need  to remove  the PPA to stop the error message13:22
davmor2dogmatic69: to way to get rid of it,  the easy one is open software-sources and click on the other software tab read through till you find that line right click it and select delete done :)13:24
dogmatic69its a server13:25
dogmatic69no clicky clicky13:25
marxjohnsonsudo add-apt-repository -r ppa:<ppa name here>13:26
marxjohnsonor look in /etc/apt/sources.list.d13:27
davmor2^ that would be my next suggestion :D13:27
hoovercheers all13:34
ubuntuuk-planet[Jonathan Riddell] Desktop Summit - http://blogs.kde.org/node/446615:16
directhexall the cool kids are at DS15:24
davmor2Sometimes I feel I got to run away, I've got to get away....15:25
czajkowskiMmm dinner cooked15:27
czajkowskimails done and answer15:27
czajkowskiwhat next15:27
dogmatic69early dinner?15:28
davmor2czajkowski: Fix London, stop the riots, and move england somewhere a bit warmer?15:29
daubersczajkowski: I have cake :)15:30
davmor2daubers: what cake?15:30
czajkowskidaubers: ohh CAKE!!15:30
czajkowskidogmatic69: no for later15:30
czajkowskibut it's done now15:30
czajkowskidavmor2: hey I'm good not that good15:30
hamitronso you just fixed the riots and left us in a cold climate?15:31
czajkowskisunny here in London15:31
czajkowskiactually it's a fab day15:31
hamitronraining here15:31
davmor2czajkowski: Who's been lying to you saying your good ;)15:31
HazRPGhmm, just spent 5hrs trying to teach my sister ubuntu 11.0415:38
HazRPGso far, she seems to think its not user friendly15:39
HazRPGor to use her words "that's just crap, how do I know if stuff is open..."15:40
HazRPGso far using her as a test dummy for 11.04 is not going well :(15:40
davmor2HazRPG: and yet my Mom who has never used the old version of Ubuntu picked it up with no training cause it was like her phone15:40
HazRPGheh, my sister still uses a nokia phone15:47
HazRPGshe's too use to windows and, when I converted her over to ubuntu 9.10 (and everything ever since), gnome2 works... she finds it odd that its on the right-hand side, and how the close button is on the wrong side... etc15:48
ali1234i still use a nokia phone15:48
ali1234nokia phones are good15:48
davmor2ali1234: well till next year right ;)15:49
HazRPGshe seems to have the same beef against unity as I do... and I never even told her my annoyances with it :p15:49
ali1234unlike android rubbish, nokia phones actually keep working for longer than a year15:49
* popey pines after his old n7215:50
popeyexcept for the crappy bits of the phone15:50
HazRPG<= still has nokia phones for when phones go bad15:51
HazRPG(still rocking the 3310 for my other number!)15:51
oimonhad my htc desire almost 18 months15:51
brobostigonme too, 2.15:51
ali1234nokia were the biggest phone manufacturer because their phones were reliable15:51
ali1234the problem is nobody wants reliable things any more15:51
ali1234they want facebook15:51
ali1234they want the cloud, and apps15:51
HazRPGbest phone purchase ever was that nokia 3310... still holds its battery for like 5-6 days! Fantastic piece of kit :)15:51
czajkowskiI've a hero almost 2 years15:51
ali1234and a lot of stuff that is going to come back and bite them15:51
ali1234but it's not my problem :)15:51
jpdsczajkowski: Likewise.15:51
czajkowskiali1234: yes we do, it's keeping with the times and technology15:51
czajkowskijpds: we clearly look after our toys :)15:52
jpdsali1234: Love the cloud.15:52
oimonmy old phone battery lasted 4 days except the screen was the size of my digital watch and used mono LCD15:52
popeyi have a 2 year old hero too15:52
popeyi gave it away because it's rubbish15:52
ali1234i do love the cloud. i just don't rely on it15:52
WorMzyI've had my Samsung D900i for four years on Friday, still going strong.15:52
ali1234and i am coming around to this android phone i have15:53
ali1234but i wouldn't rely on it15:53
HazRPGWorMzy: I bet the battery life isn't as good as my nokia 3310 though ;)15:53
WorMzyLasts for about a week15:53
ali1234by which i mean i wouldn't leave the house with it unless i had a backup phone as well15:53
ali1234because it just crashes that much15:53
oimonmy phone never crashes15:53
ali1234backup phone being a nokia of course15:54
oimonby never, i mean not once15:54
ali1234also every android version prior to 2.3 = lol15:54
HazRPGI must agree, 2.3 has been the best one so far15:55
brobostigonHazRPG: i agree, yes.15:55
HazRPGhowever my 3310 shall remain in my glove box for those "oh crap" moments15:55
brobostigoneven on my htc dream, :)15:56
ali1234you don't actually need to carry a 3310 for good battery life. just avoid android and iphone15:56
HazRPG(hates the fact that nexus one needs to be charged every day or every other day depending on usage)15:56
brobostigonHazRPG: on a good day, with 2.3, my htc dream will just about last twelve hours.15:57
davmor2hasn't had any issues with his milestone once he switched off rooting and overclocker :)15:57
HazRPGbrobostigon: if I don't use my phone at all, nor move it, and keep it in an area that has decent signal... I can get roughly 2 days worth out of the battery :P15:57
HazRPGthe minute I move it, use it, or even touch it... I'll probably get about a day... or less15:58
brobostigonHazRPG: hmm, interesting. however defeating the point.15:58
davmor2HazRPG: switch off 3g when you have wifi switch off gps I get 4 days15:58
HazRPGI mainly use my phone to call people, and on occasion, text people (if I really must...), the rest is a novelty15:59
HazRPGdavmor2: I have my always set to GSM only, barely use 3g at all...15:59
* brobostigon disappears for his trek dose. on cbs action.15:59
ali1234i've actually started to fall into the habit of picking up my phone when i get a new email, cos it's faster than loading up gmail (this is the android phone of course)16:00
HazRPGdavmor2: gps is never on, unless I'm driving and I don't know where I'm going... and wifi is only on, when I'm at home16:00
ali1234and i do it when i'm sitting in front of the computer16:00
ali1234i think it says more about the lack of usability of unity than it does about android16:00
HazRPGali1234: heh, I do that16:00
ali1234i know if i click firefox on the launcher it's going to barf 100 windows all over my desktop16:01
HazRPG(still not updated to 11.04 yet...)16:01
ali1234i really hate that you can't unminimize 1 window without unminimizing all of them16:01
HazRPGali1234: this is why I haven't updated, I like my window list too much16:04
ali1234nah, you should update16:06
ali1234and then complain constantly about it16:06
ali1234like me16:07
HazRPGif I update, it might make them think "oh look, we have another download... clearly another satisfied user..."16:07
=== Hornet- is now known as Hornet
StevenRhurrah. success. ceiling sanded and painted19:54
StevenRcouple more coats, and job will be a good 'un19:54
=== Don is now known as Guest18436
Myrttiuk ♥20:18
=== AlanBell is now known as uk
uk♥  Myrtti20:21
=== uk is now known as AlanBell
=== OmNomSequitur is now known as OmNomDeBonBon
LaneyI forgot how great chocolate digestives are20:46
Laney♥ uk20:46
=== popey changed the topic of #ubuntu-uk to: Welcome to #ubuntu-uk! http://ubuntu-uk.org | This channel is publicly archived http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Mailing List http://tinyurl.com/uukml | Support Guidelines http://tinyurl.com/uuksupport | Meeting 29th August 21:00 UK time #ubuntu-uk-meeting http://tinyurl.com/uukmeet | uk ♥
Azelphurwouldn't that be more ♥ digestive biscuits?21:11
popeynot if you scroll up21:15
Azelphurah :P21:25
brobostigongood night, sleep well everyone.21:38
AlanBellI dispatched the first shipit cd today22:04
popeyI can haz backup internettings22:04
Azelphurpopey: is that 3g backup internettings?22:08
hamitronAlanBell: shipit cd?22:08
AlanBellhamitron: with the magic process22:09
hamitronI think that is a great service to those in rural areas22:12
hamitronI guess some in the UK won't have internet connections also22:13
ali1234if you had no internet connection, how would you even know ubuntu existed?22:13
hamitronwell, I mean if you just go online at internet cafe22:13
hamitronor buy a linux mag22:13
hamitronor mobile internet22:14
ali1234for that matter, if you have no internet connection, why would you even have a PC?22:14
directhexother than obnoxious "i don't own a tv, look at me everyone, I DON'T HAVE A TV" types, who has a computer capable of running a modern linux and an interest in a modern linux but not internet?22:14
popeyAzelphur: yes22:14
Azelphurwhat deal do you have?22:15
hamitronali1234: writing documents?22:15
popeyali1234: magazines22:15
popeyits a dongle plugged into an access point which is flashed to openwrt22:15
popeyso it shares 3G over wifi (and wired)22:15
popeyali1234: switched my old 3g zte dongle for a huawaeieieie one22:15
popeyworks brilliantly22:16
directhexdraytek routers and i think some avm ones do that with stock firmware22:16
ali1234draytek routers are odd22:16
hamitronsays ali123422:16
ali1234they like to tell all connected devices that they are in hong kong22:16
popeyI am happy with this, nice and flexible22:16
ali1234presents problems using channel 13 with linux because of CRDA22:16
ali1234other than that, they are good, or so i'm told22:17
Azelphurpopey: nice did you find a provider that lets you buy bandwith without it expiring?22:18
Azelphuror do you just manual topup when the connection goes down?22:18
popeyI'm just using 3 for now22:18
AzelphurI've been looking for a provider that'll let me just buy bandwith with no expiry so I can do a setup similar to yours22:19
AzelphurI think vodafone might do it22:19
ali1234why not just top up when you need it?22:19
Azelphurbecause I want it to failover instantly22:19
Azelphurbecause I'm pedantic like that22:19
ali1234no point22:19
ali1234you'll still lose all connections22:19
Azelphuryea but it's as painless as possible22:20
ali1234topping up takes 3 seconds22:20
directhexnobody does non-expiring data sims.22:20
Azelphurali1234 my connection is usually short downtimes and often22:21
directhexi conveniently have 4 brochures on my desk22:21
Azelphurso it'll go down for like 30 minutes then come back up a couple times a month22:21
Azelphurdirecthex: fun \o/22:21
ali1234what you need is one of those $1/day only when you use it accounts22:21
hamitronmaybe trade internet connections with a neighbour?22:22
hamitronso each can use one anothers for redundancy22:22
Azelphurali1234 that'd work too22:22
Azelphurhamitron our area is notoriously unreliable22:22
popeynice thing about this dongle is it has two slots, one for SIM another for Micro SIM22:22
Azelphura little while the exchange for the county went down22:22
directhexnew mobile phone season means lots of brochures22:22
Azelphurand that's ignoring that pretty much every time it rains the connection quality gets nuked or goes away completely22:23
hamitronsomeone like me22:23
hamitronhang on22:24
hamitroncan't be22:24
hamitronyou download more than me22:24
hamitron600kbps atm22:24
directhexhttp://www.phonearena.com/news/HP-Pre3-stars-in-a-21-minute-French-video-exploration_id20844 is french but informative anyway.23:47

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