[00:28] <brousch> you can get ext3 and ntfs for osx
[00:28] <brousch> it'll also do fat
[02:47] <Blazeix> rick_h_: this is the file/blob api I was talking about: http://www.html5rocks.com/en/tutorials/file/xhr2/
[02:47] <Blazeix> not sure if it will do what you need, it really seems like html5 manifest is the way to go
[03:08] <rick_h_> Blazeix: ok cool, will check that out then
[03:09] <rick_h_> yea, the file api stuff looks like it's upload/local access only
[03:09] <rick_h_> not store down
[03:09] <rick_h_> http://www.html5rocks.com/en/tutorials/file/dndfiles/
[03:11] <Blazeix> rick_h_: if you scroll down to the 'practical examples' there might be more useful stuff
[03:11] <Blazeix> like using http://www.html5rocks.com/en/tutorials/file/filesystem/
[03:13] <rick_h_> oh hmm, the use cases have download items in there
[03:15] <rick_h_> oh nice, that has file writing, directories, very cool
[03:16] <Blazeix> yeah, I think if you really wanted to, you could recreate the manifest functionality :P
[03:17] <rick_h_> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/group/chromium-html5/browse_thread/thread/9be7a2dc04d9af67
[03:17] <rick_h_> lol
[03:17] <rick_h_> ok, will check out the manifest then
[03:17] <rick_h_> I guess I did say it was chrome only
[03:17] <rick_h_> so not like I have to make it compatible, and often the issues are mobile specific
[03:18] <rick_h_> just hear enough people complain and you block out certain ideas
[03:18] <rick_h_> wonder if I can still use that quota api stuff with manifest
[03:52] <snap-l> I love that by putting up three videos on the internet about Scribus, I'm somehow a Scribus guru
[03:53] <Blazeix> I'd say that qualifies, actually.
[03:54] <snap-l> I've got a guy in Windows who is asking me about fonts.
[11:39] <brousch> http://www.infoworld.com/d/application-development/pillars-python-six-python-web-frameworks-compared-169442
[11:39] <brousch> Web2py FTW!
[11:45] <snap-l> And this is why I think Infoworld is stupid
[11:46] <brousch> wtf is cubicweb?
[11:46] <snap-l> MAke a controversial article with half-truths, and just watch the clicks pour in
[11:47] <brousch> damn, i'm feeding the corporate troll?
[11:47] <snap-l> Yep
[11:47] <snap-l> Think about it; what purpose would having the comparison chart on the front page serve? Aren't those usually at the end of the article?
[11:47] <snap-l> But, put it at the front of the article:
[11:48] <brousch> the article has no substance
[11:48] <snap-l> "Web2py got a 9 for capability, but Pyramid got an 8. WTF?"
[11:48] <brousch> and zope got 9!
[11:48] <snap-l> Web2py got a 9 for ease of installation, but Pyramid for an 8. WTF?"
[11:48] <brousch> that's probably correct
[11:48] <snap-l> so you're compelled to click to find out why.
[11:49] <snap-l> The Web2py framework is an abstraction paradise. Databases hide behind a Database Abstraction Layer (DAL). Web2py's rendering system will try to find a view that -- depending on context -- displays an object in HTML, XML, JSON, or any of the half-dozen protocols the framework supports. Intelligently crafted by a professor of computer science, Web2py's template system actually lets you use Python as an HTML-embeddable scripting language. Fa
[11:49] <snap-l> Pyramid is also minimalist Web framework, not so much in its capability as its philosophy. It makes no assertion concerning the back-end database you should use, nor does it foist a particular template system on the developer. (Currently, Pyramid supports two, though Pyramid itself tries to remain agnostic regarding the choice.) If Pyramid has any blemishes, it is the quirky terminology with which its documentation describes the framework.
[11:50] <snap-l> This article makes no justification for any of their assertions.
[11:50] <snap-l> it's crap
[11:50] <brousch> yeah, no msubstance
[11:50] <snap-l> Where did you see this?
[11:51] <Wolfger> morning
[11:51] <brousch> #pocoo, the Flask channel
[11:52] <snap-l> http://www.reddit.com/r/Python/comments/jegm3/pillars_of_python_six_python_web_frameworks/
[11:52] <snap-l> Vote that sucker down, and vote my comment up. ;)
[11:52] <snap-l> (please)
[11:53] <brousch> all i have is a troll reddit account
[11:54] <brousch> there, i registered just for you
[11:55] <snap-l> Thank you. :)
[11:57] <Wolfger> voted snap-l down and the article up
[11:57] <Wolfger> oh wait, I mean, the other way around :-)
[11:58] <snap-l> Thank you. :)
[12:02] <rick_h_> this is what I wake up to?
[12:02] <rick_h_> *sigh*
[12:03] <brousch> just getting you fired up for the day ahead
[12:04] <rick_h_> https://github.com/Pylons/pyramid_debugtoolbar/commit/3ff51ce8f51d025a68f94c2961c5740cbc3d3167
[12:04] <rick_h_> lol
[12:04] <snap-l> rick_h_: Isn't it great how our assumptions are challenged on a daily basis. ;)
[12:05] <rick_h_> yea, once I saw that zope had a easier to dev for than pyramid I stopped reading
[12:05] <snap-l> (was re: pyramid dependencies)
[12:05] <rick_h_> I just love that commit message
[12:05] <snap-l> Very straightforward.
[12:07] <rick_h_> http://xkcd.com/936/ exactly! I've been trying to convince my wife of this for years!
[12:11] <snap-l> Yes
[12:11] <snap-l> Every administrator out there that has ever put a password policy in place needs to see ths
[12:13] <snap-l> What grinds me is that we're following standards that were put into place when passwords were saved as clear text in character-limited fields
[12:13] <snap-l> and frankly, that's no longer true, nor the case, nor advisable, nor sane
[12:17] <rick_h_> and the hash of that long sentence is just the same db store size as 12345
[12:17] <snap-l> precisely.
[12:18] <snap-l> http://www.geekculture.com/joyoftech/joyarchives/1577.html
[12:23] <_stink_> joined late, is there a link that started the password discussion?
[12:23] <snap-l> http://xkcd.com/936/
[12:23] <_stink_> oh, hah, xkcd. :)
[12:28] <rick_h_> boom! https://read.amazon.com/
[12:30] <snap-l> twitch
[12:31] <rick_h_> oh man this is awesome
[12:31] <rick_h_> pin and downloads for offline reading
[12:32] <snap-l> At least it would give me a chance to read the kindle-only ebooks that are so prevalent
[12:32] <rick_h_> change font sizes, spacing like a kindle
[12:32] <brousch> oh awesome, now my chromebook is a kindle
[12:32] <snap-l> After much attempts to reach you on phone, I deemed it necessary and urgent to contact you via your e-mail address and to notify you finally about your outstanding compensation payment.
[12:33] <snap-l> During our last annual calculation of your banking activities we have realized that you are eligible to receive a compensation payment of $800,000.00 USD.
[12:33] <snap-l> Wow, who knew all that direct deposit, debit card usage, and trips to the ATM would pay off so handsomely.
[12:33] <snap-l> Please take note that you will pay a shipping/handling fee of $150 USD to UPS.
[12:33] <rick_h_> crap, can't find a search option tough
[12:34] <rick_h_> I've been dying to be able to load/search my books from the browser
[12:34] <brousch> snap-l: be careful. some of those are scams
[12:34] <snap-l> brousch: some?
[12:34] <brousch> :-D
[12:34] <snap-l> $150 fee to UPS. Are they shipping my $800K inside an elephant?
[12:35] <snap-l> And do they not trust the power of wire transfer?
[12:36] <brousch> it will come to as rolls of pennies
[12:40] <snap-l> Half-tempted to say that I'll western-union the $150, if he would send me $25 to cover it via paypal
[12:43] <snap-l> "Nuts, the nearest WEstern Union from me is over 300 miiles away, and I have no money for gas. Wouldyou front me an additional $25 to cover the trip?"
[12:43] <snap-l> etc., ad nauseum.
[12:50] <Wolfger> "I don't have paypal. If you sent me $5 to cover the postage and envelope, I'll mail it to you."
[12:50] <snap-l> I don't want to give out my address.
[12:51] <Wolfger> then how will UPS deliver the $800k?
[12:52] <snap-l> Wolfger: You're not a good scam artist. ;)
[12:52] <Wolfger> darn
[12:53] <Wolfger> there goes my career planning
[12:53] <snap-l> Perhaps you can have a much more fulfilled career in agriculture?
[12:54] <Wolfger> rick_h_: that xkcd ignores the existence of dictionary attacks... (though I'm not sure if that applies so well when the length of the password is unknown)
[12:55] <snap-l> Wolfger: Actually, it does
[12:56] <snap-l> You've just increased the rainbow table size significantly.
[12:56] <Wolfger> and dammit... now that my chromebook is a defacto Kindle, I may just have to start using both my chromebook and Kindle
[12:56] <Wolfger> :-p
[12:57] <Wolfger> defeat dictionary attacks by using a different language.... "orrectcay orsehay atterybay aplestay" :-)
[12:58]  * Wolfger - promoting better passwords and pig latin, all at once.
[13:00] <Wolfger> also, the extra letters increase security versus brute force
[13:04] <rick_h_> I've been doing this forever on my ssh keys
[13:04] <rick_h_> you want to try to brute force it go ahead
[13:04] <rick_h_> one of the words in the phrase is from a book and you won't find it in any dictionary
[13:06] <Wolfger> well there you go. Another way around dictionary attacks :-)
[13:07] <Wolfger> what's the word? ;-)
[13:08] <rick_h_> toolernator :P
[13:10] <nullspace> bah you can brute force that
[13:10] <rick_h_> nullspace: the point is that it's one word in a sentence/phrase
[13:11] <Wolfger> now if we could just get all sites, OS's, and corp security rules to stop enforcing silly password rules....
[13:11] <Wolfger> what really irks me is when a site restricts your password to "no more than 8 characters". How does that help anybody?
[13:12] <nullspace> Wolfger: well they need to start by making it hard to steal hashes
[13:12] <nullspace> and tell users to no reuse their passwords
[13:12] <Wolfger> which isn't going to happen
[13:13] <Wolfger> sensible password policies would enable people to use different passwords in different places, and actually remember them
[13:13] <Wolfger> until that happens, we're living in a single-point-of-failure world
[13:14] <Wolfger> we need to make it so that a single hack doesn't expose your entire online existence
[13:16] <nullspace> bloodsample logins, your DNA sequence is read and salted with your cholesterol level which is stored as an SHA256 hash
[13:21] <Wolfger> no good, again. Somebody cracks that, they have your password to everything.
[13:22] <Wolfger> and if your cholesterol level changes, you're in trouble :-p
[13:24] <Wolfger> something like isthayiswayymayaskwayubuntuwayasswordpay is easy to remember, hard to crack, and unique to one site.
[13:27] <jrwren> i missed broot farce discussion?
[13:27] <jrwren> lol.
[13:27] <jrwren> cholesterol lvel changes too much.
[13:27] <jrwren> and dna is too easy to steal
[13:28] <Wolfger> indeed
[13:28] <Wolfger> if they get a blood sample, they have your password :-)
[13:35] <snap-l> Yeah, we need something that isn't likely to change
[13:36] <snap-l> and isn't likely to get removed from your body without you noticing and or caring
[13:36] <snap-l> That's why I advocate spinal tap passwords
[13:37] <jrwren> i think pass phrases are more powerful than bio id.
[13:37] <jrwren> bio can be fooled. cut off a finger, cut out an eye.
[13:38] <jrwren> but a passphrase is secure in my brain
[13:39] <Wolfger> torture!
[13:39] <Wolfger> :-)
[13:40] <Wolfger> pass phrases are far better than bio for one simple reason: You can change them when they are compromised, and they will not change without the consent of somebody who has access already (as opposed to, say, cholesterol level)
[13:41] <Wolfger> also, bio id is bad when the hardware malfunctions and you are denied access because it can't scan whatever body part is required.
[13:43] <jrwren> yup
[13:43] <jrwren> all that said.... I love my fingerprint reader login.
[13:43] <jrwren> swipe my finger and I don't have to type my long passphrase
[13:43] <snap-l> Wondering how long it'll be before they have dickID
[13:43] <Wolfger> which finger do I need to remove? ;-)
[13:44] <Wolfger> snap-l: I think you'll find a finger reader will work on that appendage as well
[13:44] <jrwren> yup... that part Is a little scary.
[13:44] <jrwren> especially with my ssh agent running
[13:44] <jrwren> and and for a while there I had passwordless sudo setup :)
[15:04] <brousch> ug. i've already modified an old data export script in java and an autocad drawing macro in VB
[15:04] <brousch> i need my python
[15:56] <Wolfger> I'm sure there's a joke there, but I'm not going to touch it...
[15:57] <snap-l> Wolfger: Go on, touch brousch's python
[15:57] <brousch> it won't hurt you
[15:58] <ptenhoopen> Creepy
[16:03] <snap-l> Can we have fall now?
[16:04] <snap-l> Seriously loving the breeze over here
[16:04] <snap-l> Also listening to Mahler's 9th. :)
[16:04] <snap-l> Symphony No. 9 in D Major; III. Rondo-Burleske: Allegro assai. Sehr trotzig
[16:05] <rick_h_> yea, open windows during work ftw!
[16:30] <Wolfger> I wish I could open these windows...
[16:31] <Wolfger> it's gorgeous outside. I hope the weather stay just like this for the rest of August.
[16:33] <rick_h_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OrkAuwaoFGg&feature=player_embedded
[17:05] <snap-l> Office 365 Man: https://dl-web.dropbox.com/get/office365.jpg?w=f977e754
[17:21] <rick_h_> Error (403)
[17:23] <snap-l> http://ubuntuone.com/p/19ZX/
[17:23] <snap-l> Also, Ubuntu One is a POS.
[17:24] <brousch> i tried ubuntuone and ran into many syncing problems
[17:24] <brousch> dropbox is still the best
[17:42] <snap-l> JoDee has threatened to make me tea
[17:42] <rick_h_> that bad?
[17:42] <rick_h_> can she make me some?
[17:42] <snap-l> of course, it's not a threat when I wouldn't mind having tea, now is it?
[17:43] <rick_h_> but right now you're anti-tea allergies are going full force?
[17:43] <snap-l> Nah, it's just not fall
[17:43] <snap-l> usually summer is iced tea, not hot tea
[17:45] <Blazeix> rick_h_: are you going to be at CHC tonight?
[17:45] <Blazeix> if so, I may pick your brain on message queueing technology
[17:46] <rick_h_> Blazeix: yep
[17:48] <Blazeix> cool
[18:07] <Wolfger> Mmmmm... MQ....
[18:13] <jrwren> arg... i hate that ssh-keygen has no -h or --help
[18:14] <Blazeix> it does have a decent manpage
[18:15] <Blazeix> but it is annoying that it leaps right into key generation when you run it
[18:17] <Wolfger> when I see something like this, I have an urge to carry it onto an airplane. http://www.thinkgeek.com/gadgets/tools/e9be/
[18:18] <Blazeix> that's an urge that will most likely do you a disservice in the future.
[18:19] <Wolfger> You say that now
[18:20] <Wolfger> wait until you and I are on the same flight as a terrorist, and I dispatch him with my ceramic knife. Then you'll be thankful that I felt like proving airport security was a sham
[18:28] <jrwren> hell yeah.
[18:28] <jrwren> but my fists, fingers and a ball point pen can be just as harmful.
[18:28] <jrwren> so i figure when it comes down to it, i'll ink stab a terrorist plane hijacker.
[18:29] <jrwren> but wait... its been 10 yrs since the last successful US plane hijacking.
[18:29] <Wolfger> funny how that happens
[18:34] <jrwren> patriot act is working ;)
[18:34] <Wolfger> that's one opinion
[18:34] <Wolfger> old skyjacking protocol: stay calm, the pilot will get you on the ground, and the authorities will deal with the skyjacker
[18:35] <Wolfger> post-9/11 skyjacking protocol: Kill them. Kill them now.
[18:47] <snap-l> I think country music should be illegal for corporate presentations
[18:49] <Blazeix> if they use country, does that open the floodgates? Could you use metal during your presentations?
[18:49] <snap-l> Somehow I doubt that
[18:49] <snap-l> though I'd really love to. ;)
[18:54] <TeamXlink> I thought our post  9/11 policy was make airport security unconstitutional, shoot every guy that looks like osama, go back too war again because osama isn't dead, imprision random foriengers without reason for years, and hmmmmm
[18:54] <jrwren> and hold music.
[18:54] <jrwren> hold music should be MUZAK only.
[18:54] <snap-l> Hold music should include Chick Corea's entire back-catalogue, along with Weather Report.
[19:00] <snap-l> Fuck me
[19:00] <snap-l> now it's Sheryl Crow, mangling Kevin Gilbert's music
[19:01] <Blazeix> is this just pre-presentation music, or is it actually part of the presentation?
[19:01] <TeamXlink> When are the DMR laws going too be fixed?
[19:01] <snap-l> pre-presentation
[19:02] <TeamXlink> Thanks good too know.
[19:02]  * TeamXlink 
[19:02]  * TeamXlink trololololols
[19:04] <Blazeix> I wouldn't be surprised if the music was just a fellow employee's cruel joke
[19:07] <jrwren> anyone know of a non-shell command that will echo the return status of a program you run?
[19:07] <jrwren> like a wrapper that prints $? after running a command.
[19:11] <snap-l> echo $?
[19:41] <snap-l> Theres a startling similarity between quarterly earnings calls and coach-game postmortems
[19:44] <rick_h_> ruh roh
[19:44] <rick_h_> "get back out there and fight!"
[19:45] <snap-l> We need to get out there, and move the ball bettern than the other team
[19:46] <snap-l> I wonder how many football teams are told "you need to do more with less". ;)
[19:46] <snap-l> Deliver your touchdowns on time and within budget
[23:49] <TeamXlink> Q: Has anyone ever heard anyhing regarding ADHD and fast paced videogames being related or linked in such a way, or even mentioned in the same sentence without the words are not linked in between?
[23:52] <snap-l> no