[00:04] <charlie-tca> duanedesign: you ready?
[00:04] <PabloRubianes> duanedesign,
[00:04] <duanedesign> yes
[00:05] <duanedesign> #startmeeting
[00:05] <meetingology> Meeting started Fri Aug 12 00:05:04 2011 UTC.  The chair is duanedesign. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
[00:05] <meetingology> Useful Commands: #topic #action #link #idea #voters #vote #chair #action #agreed #help #info #endmeeting.
[00:05] <IAmNotThatGuy> o/
[00:06] <PabloRubianes> hello
[00:06] <duanedesign> raise hand ih here o/
[00:06] <charlie-tca> okay
[00:06] <charlie-tca> o/
[00:07] <jledbetter> o/
[00:07] <charlie-tca> at least in spirit
[00:07] <PabloRubianes> o/
[00:07] <MrChrisDruif> Aloha
[00:07] <MrChrisDruif> Sorry I'm late
[00:07] <duanedesign> ok i will start charles proposal
[00:08] <duanedesign> i hope some you had time to read it
[00:08] <bodhi_zazen> read what (I just joined)
[00:08] <duanedesign> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/cprofitt/sandbox
[00:09] <jledbetter> #link will add it to the log pretty like I think
[00:09] <MrChrisDruif> I had my personal live intervene
[00:09] <duanedesign> thanks led
[00:09] <bodhi_zazen> duanedesign: who is here from the bt council ?
[00:09] <phillw> late, but here
[00:09] <duanedesign> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/cprofitt/sandbox
[00:10] <bodhi_zazen> I think that link is mute ^^
[00:10] <charlie-tca> it just doesn't repeat them here anymore
[00:10] <DarkwingDuck> Sorry I'm late
[00:10] <IAmNotThatGuy> DarkwingDuck, we are just starting =]
[00:11] <DarkwingDuck> Outstanding
[00:11] <bodhi_zazen> I think the BT is all but dead, if people want to support new users, let them support new users on the forums or irc or LP or what have you
[00:11] <duanedesign> i dont know about that
[00:11] <bodhi_zazen> If the BT wants to morph itself into an ambassador role, new to Ubuntu, and helping people integrate into the community, we need buy in from other teams
[00:11] <duanedesign> i think te team has a lot to offer.
[00:12] <bodhi_zazen> Which we clearly do not have
[00:12] <bodhi_zazen> so I suggest we discuss the BT with the CC
[00:12] <bodhi_zazen> We have a lot to offer, but why do we need the BT to make the offering ?
[00:12] <phillw> bodhi_zazen: whilst me and UBT had issues, that news is devarsting to me
[00:12] <duanedesign> bodhi_zazen: I have contagted the MOTE Mentoring Program and the bugs Mentoring Program and they were interested in woring with us
[00:13] <bodhi_zazen> Well, that is what needs to be discussed, not the link from cprofit
[00:13] <bodhi_zazen> IMO
[00:13] <DarkwingDuck> What UBT needs is a core of people with TONs of time to drive it.
[00:13] <duanedesign> i think thr issue is we, the BT, put to many obstacles in the way for someone who just wants to learn Documentation
[00:13] <DarkwingDuck> I don't have the time at the moment to be a driving force.
[00:13] <charlie-tca> I think the link was one of the subjects of the meeting
[00:13] <jledbetter> DarkwingDuck, I thought that's part of what council was? People that were committed and had the time.
[00:13] <bodhi_zazen> We need to map out how we are going to integrate the BT into the community
[00:14] <jledbetter> charlie-tca, +1
[00:14] <bodhi_zazen> charlie-tca: it is , but it is sort of irrelevant, IMO
[00:14] <PabloRubianes> I think we are missing the point
[00:14] <phillw> DarkwingDuck: we gave the coucil those ruights?
[00:14] <charlie-tca> Unfortunately, there seems to be at least one person here who refuses such a meeting to even take place
[00:14]  * bkerensa can help with UBT
[00:14] <PabloRubianes> if we want to be a team or just pointers to upstream
[00:14] <DarkwingDuck> Yes, but the Council can't even get on the same page.
[00:14] <PabloRubianes> as I see it
[00:15] <DarkwingDuck> and I'm saying that as a Jr member on the council.
[00:15] <JasonO> Hi
[00:15] <jledbetter> Hi JasonO
[00:15] <bkerensa> Hi
[00:15] <JasonO> Hi jledbetter
[00:16] <JasonO> Hi bkerensa
[00:16] <DarkwingDuck> That's the issue... we have no "roadmap"
[00:16] <duanedesign> the mentoring programs that exist in different areas of the community are struggking, as i understand, The beginners Team has much knowkedge in this area we can bring ti the table
[00:16] <bkerensa> This is Ubuntu Beginners Team Meeting correct?
[00:16] <jledbetter> bkerensa, Yes :)
[00:16]  * bkerensa is in the right place then
[00:17] <PabloRubianes> duanedesign, yes but I see that the original BT way was the best
[00:17] <jledbetter> I see the BT as feeding the other projects. a place people can go and ask (and get help with) "I want to help. Where/How can I?"
[00:17] <PabloRubianes> where you have a guide (human) to interact
[00:17] <IAmNotThatGuy> Its not just the core team to spend time. We ned contribution from each memeber, atleast for an hour each day
[00:17] <duanedesign> We need to work with Doc Team, Bug Squad, MOTE wcwtera to best determin how to get people interested in their team. At the sametime encourage their mentoring program to join ours,So we can share best practices and resources
[00:17] <bodhi_zazen> The future of the BT is what needs to be discussed, there is no consensus on the council or within the team , there is no mission
[00:18] <PabloRubianes> bodhi_zazen, true
[00:18] <duanedesign> jledbetter: i agree, er nned to push people to these other teams
[00:18] <jledbetter> Oh no... she's going to be one of *those* people....
[00:18] <phillw> duanedesign: indeed, as of my "leaving" UBT, is also seems that things like MOTU, have failed... miserably
[00:18] <jledbetter> "The Ubuntu Beginners Team exists to enhance the initial experience of new Ubuntu users and to guide existing Ubuntu users to become part of the global Ubuntu community. " https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/
[00:18] <PabloRubianes> but if we are just pointer to other places, none stays and knowledge get lost
[00:18] <DarkwingDuck> I'm still here.
[00:19] <bodhi_zazen> jledbetter: that definition is depreciated
[00:19] <DarkwingDuck> and I went from BT to Doc team and Kubuntu Council
[00:19] <jledbetter> PabloRubianes, I would think folks would be happy to be helped and emaybe stick around to help others.
[00:19] <bodhi_zazen> And can be better served in other ways
[00:19] <jledbetter> bodhi_zazen, Oh? Documentation?
[00:19] <duanedesign> PabloRubianes: good point. I would work to integrate the other teams mentoring processes into the beginnersteam
[00:19] <bodhi_zazen> You do not need a BT to help on LP, forums, irc ....
[00:19] <MrChrisDruif> PabloRubianes; I think you have it wrong, at least in my eyes
[00:19] <jledbetter> bodhi_zazen, Nope. Anyone can. :)
[00:19] <bodhi_zazen> jledbetter: Documentation of what ?
[00:20] <jledbetter> bodhi_zazen, Why it's deprecated.
[00:20] <PabloRubianes> MrChrisDruif, what do you think?
[00:20] <MrChrisDruif> It would be *awesome* is "we" would become the mentoring area
[00:20] <bodhi_zazen> jledbetter: did you not read https://wiki.ubuntu.com/cprofitt/sandbox
[00:20] <jledbetter> bodhi_zazen, That's what we're discussing. It's not in place :)
[00:20]  * phillw to be suspended for a sense of humour.... What rules where there for that?
[00:20] <bodhi_zazen> It has not been fully adopted
[00:20] <MrChrisDruif> That way we wouldn't loose any knowledge
[00:20] <duanedesign> bodhi_zazen: i agree we need no team buti can not imagine I would have ever been so active had I not belong to a team than containeed so many knowledgable people in different areas of the community
[00:20] <PabloRubianes> MrChrisDruif, I mean in the new model proposed
[00:21] <bkerensa> I think BT should have a person who handles each aspect of contribution: bugs, doc, locos, dev, marketing etc and should act as a beginner mentor in each area
[00:21] <bodhi_zazen> What we need to do is have a discussion with the CC and other community leaders
[00:21] <bodhi_zazen> and build a role for the BT
[00:21] <duanedesign> i agree bodhi_zazen
[00:21] <bodhi_zazen> support will be a part of what we do
[00:21] <bkerensa> bodhi_zazen: +1
[00:21] <PabloRubianes> I think becoming a mentorship area is the ideal, but first we have to have a strong team behind with sense of pretence
[00:21] <duanedesign> bodhi_zazen: preliminary talks have happened with Joeb454
[00:21] <bodhi_zazen> and half the team can not grasp that concept
[00:21] <jledbetter> PabloRubianes, +1
[00:21] <duanedesign> err, jono
[00:22] <bodhi_zazen> like jledbetter , and others
[00:22] <jledbetter> Wow.
[00:22] <bodhi_zazen> which results in chaos
[00:22] <PabloRubianes> sense of you belong there
[00:22] <IAmNotThatGuy> bodhi_zazen, and I think there should be a -team where we had all fun and more than that
[00:23] <bodhi_zazen> IAmNotThatGuy: I agree, but that is not the future of theBT
[00:23] <jledbetter> bodhi_zazen, What can't I grasp, exactly?
[00:23] <PabloRubianes> IAmNotThatGuy, +1
[00:23] <DarkwingDuck> What does the UBT think they are?
[00:23] <DarkwingDuck> the council has been debating this for ever now...
[00:23] <DarkwingDuck> What does the rest of the UBT see the UBT being?
[00:23] <duanedesign> bodhi_zazen:  i think i agree that input from thecommunity is essentkial. What do they want, what will help most. From who i talked to a Mentor program woould help most. AS lot of teams have troublemaintaining them. hving a team that is all they do increases chances for succes IMHO
[00:23] <bodhi_zazen> I do not know jledbetter , you are citing the old mission statement and wondering what happened
[00:23] <bodhi_zazen> duanedesign: well, that is haelpful
[00:24] <charlie-tca> apparently, if the team consists of bodhi_zazen, it is what ever he decides
[00:24] <jledbetter> bodhi_zazen, Because that's what is on our wiki page and what brings people to us and why we get emails of people wanting to join. Right?
[00:24] <bodhi_zazen> can you lay that out on a wiki page ?
[00:24] <jledbetter> duanedesign, Yes, mentoring is what I keep hearing too.
[00:24] <MrChrisDruif> DarkwingDuck; I would see it as it is; which would be support for beginning ubunteros and help in the transition from ubuntero to active ubuntero
[00:24] <PabloRubianes> I think we need to try not to be a mess in here
[00:24]  * phillw can I state how totally wrong the lp emails are?
[00:25] <duanedesign> The current mission is: The Ubuntu Beginners Team exists to enhance the initial experience of new Ubuntu users and to guide existing Ubuntu users to become part of the global Ubuntu community.
[00:25] <duanedesign> DarkwingDuck: ^
[00:25] <bodhi_zazen> PabloRubianes: the Bt is in shambles, from top to bottom, from bottom to top
[00:25] <phillw> if yoiu wish to be professionall, then gewt them sorted
[00:25] <IAmNotThatGuy> bodhi_zazen, I love UBT for the helpp and the team channel rather than FGs. And thats why I am not ready to leave the -team channel. It gives me some sort of energy to proceed forward. Kinda a force to run
[00:25] <PabloRubianes> bodhi_zazen, yes
[00:25] <DarkwingDuck> Yes, I know the mission statement.. I'm looking at what the members within the team view the team as.
[00:25] <bodhi_zazen> Even within this meeting there is no agreement as to what the BT is any longer
[00:25] <MrChrisDruif> With that in mind; that would mean that we should be mentoring people to becoming members in their prospected area
[00:25] <bodhi_zazen> Same for the mailing list
[00:25] <DarkwingDuck> That's my point bodhi_zazen
[00:26] <bodhi_zazen> same for the council
[00:26] <MrChrisDruif> Those areas would have people coming back to us to let the knowledge remain
[00:26] <PabloRubianes> MrChrisDruif, I think there is where you get it wrong,
[00:26] <PabloRubianes> new members should be first members of the team and then go upstream
[00:26] <duanedesign> i would like to thing if you go through the Beginners team and lear Documentation, you will come back and repay that favor mentoring someone else
[00:27] <bodhi_zazen> The greater community is asking the BT to morph from what is is/was into something else and most of the council see the team going in that direction
[00:27] <jledbetter> duanedesign, What I was thinking too
[00:27] <PabloRubianes> if we only help to evolve people to other teams in a few time none will remain in the bt
[00:27] <bodhi_zazen> If not all of the council
[00:27] <bodhi_zazen> The BT membership seems split 50/50
[00:28] <duanedesign> one idea was to have an open team of eople looking for help
[00:28] <bodhi_zazen> PabloRubianes: that may be the future of the BT
[00:28] <duanedesign> and another team of mentors
[00:28] <bodhi_zazen> if there is no mission / purpose
[00:28] <PabloRubianes> bodhi_zazen, but I don't think that is right...
[00:28] <bodhi_zazen> What is not right ? The UDS request ? the team forking ?
[00:29] <IAmNotThatGuy> bodhi_zazen, you know that this is our home. People who are loving it hard are still there. And how can we break it? We can do help in all FG, but lets also have #UB and -team
[00:29] <PabloRubianes> bodhi_zazen, let out team future on other decision
[00:30] <phillw> bodhi_zazen: My Lord and Master, I really feel to see a sense of humour. It has really troubled me as I so, so strongly belive in UBT.... where did they & I go wrong?
[00:30] <bodhi_zazen> The team needs to decide what it wants to be
[00:30] <jledbetter> lord and master?
[00:30]  * DarkwingDuck sighs
[00:30]  * MrChrisDruif joins DarkwingDuck in sighs
[00:30] <bodhi_zazen> Are we going to answer the request from the community ?
[00:31] <bodhi_zazen> Or be a support team ?
[00:31] <IAmNotThatGuy> bodhi_zazen, why cant we do both?
[00:31] <jledbetter> bodhi_zazen, You would prefer support? As in "how to do I make X work in Ubuntu"?
[00:31] <MrChrisDruif> Anyhow, I think duanedesign and I pretty much are on the same page, but just rephrasing it differently
[00:31] <IAmNotThatGuy> Lets not break what we are till now and lets work on the request from the community
[00:31] <bodhi_zazen> IAmNotThatGuy: because half the team does not want to do both, half the team wants to be support only
[00:32] <jledbetter> Then they can be support. Those that don't can mentor ;)
[00:32] <MrChrisDruif> jledbetter; +1
[00:32] <phillw> DarkwingDuck: and MrChrisDruif you do not see our nick names, fior some this is a 'problem' but for those who know, this a statememnt of authourity
[00:34] <DarkwingDuck> phillw: What are you smoking and where can I get some? :P
[00:34] <jledbetter> lol
[00:34] <MrChrisDruif> =D
[00:34] <bodhi_zazen> So put that for a vote, both, then change the various wiki pages, and mov eforward
[00:34] <IAmNotThatGuy> bodhi_zazen, Or lets m,ake it like to be an UBT member, they should provide help in any one FG(If thats the case) but not breaking the -team :[
[00:35] <bodhi_zazen> We should seriously do away with "membership"
[00:35] <bodhi_zazen> We should either :
[00:35] <DarkwingDuck> bodhi_zazen: +1
[00:35] <bodhi_zazen> 1. Be an open team - probably best, anyone can join
[00:35] <DarkwingDuck> I'm going to be brutally honest for a moment...
[00:35] <bodhi_zazen> 2. Write out specific expectations for membership
[00:35] <bkerensa> DarkwingDuck: Sure
[00:35] <DarkwingDuck> and if you all want to fire me as a council member after, that's fine.
[00:35] <DarkwingDuck> UBT is too full of egos and "look at what I can do" people
[00:36] <bodhi_zazen> +1 DarkwingDuck
[00:36] <phillw> DarkwingDuck: I have a guy who states "Hello Master" - I have been hi master, he inseests upon it because of it being barred
[00:36] <bodhi_zazen> We seriously need to bleed off the disruptive members
[00:36] <DarkwingDuck> It's turned into a group where people point at themselves and yell at what they do/have done.
[00:36] <bodhi_zazen> +1
[00:36] <DarkwingDuck> Ubuntu is not for people like that...
[00:36] <bodhi_zazen> +1
[00:36] <bkerensa> bodhi_zazen: and replenish with valuable ones?
[00:36] <DarkwingDuck> If you want to brag about how great you are... go to Fedora or Arch
[00:37] <jledbetter> lol
[00:37] <bodhi_zazen> replenish what
[00:37] <phillw> council seem to be closed qligue
[00:37] <jledbetter> I thought folks were in UBT to help others.
[00:37] <bkerensa> bodhi_zazen: members
[00:37] <DarkwingDuck> jledbetter: in theory. In reality it's the inflated ego club of the month
[00:37] <bodhi_zazen> I say we do not need "membership"
[00:37] <phillw> I was astounded to realise tat council only vote on new mwmbwrs
[00:37] <bodhi_zazen> should be an open team
[00:38] <PabloRubianes> DarkwingDuck, great I think you are showing your ego
[00:38] <jledbetter> bodhi_zazen, I agree with you: open
[00:38] <DarkwingDuck> How is that?
[00:38] <DarkwingDuck> PabloRubianes: ^^
[00:38] <bodhi_zazen> At one time we sort of needed a membership process, but that was long ago and we have outgrown that need
[00:39] <PabloRubianes> the first thing we should do is not to say... if you want that go to arch or fedora...
[00:39] <bodhi_zazen> The idea of membership is dragging the team down and interfering with integration into the community
[00:39] <phillw> bodhi_zazen: started UBT.... those who fail to listen to his advice, are fools.
[00:39] <PabloRubianes> bodhi_zazen, the community don't even know we exist until they need a team to get people in
[00:39] <jledbetter> bodhi_zazen, Agreed. Can we vote on that?
[00:39] <DarkwingDuck> phillw: Can you please kindly stop trolling?
[00:40]  * jledbetter would love to see a positive outcome from our first meeting in a while :)
[00:40] <bodhi_zazen> What the BT needs is
[00:40] <bodhi_zazen> 1. to define a mission statement
[00:40] <bodhi_zazen> 2. We could use a few leaders please. Leaders have tended to go MIA
[00:41] <duanedesign> i agree with ann open Beginners Team, But a closed Council Team
[00:41] <bodhi_zazen> 3. We need some people who are willing to put some serious time into productive projects
[00:41] <DarkwingDuck> Council conversations and decitions need to be open.
[00:41] <bodhi_zazen> s/council/bt channel ops
[00:41] <duanedesign> i agree, i think the monthly Council meetings will quickly bleed off the inactives
[00:42] <bodhi_zazen> That is all we really need, channel ops to rid the channel of the occasional troll
[00:42] <duanedesign> I do not want to see this team implode. We worked to hard to get hear an a lot of the community is starting to take notice of us
[00:42] <bodhi_zazen> We still need leaders
[00:42] <jledbetter> We do have an opening, I think.
[00:42] <duanedesign> so let us ne civilized in handling this dierty laundry
[00:42] <jledbetter> bodhi_zazen, Running?
[00:42] <bodhi_zazen> Who is going to work with other community teams ?
[00:43] <bodhi_zazen> Who is going to provide support ? Where ? IRC ? Forums " LP ?
[00:43] <MrChrisDruif> Not me for a while, personal life issues
[00:44] <DarkwingDuck> I'm hunting for a job, trying to stay in my apt and at this point in the release cycle my Ubuntu time is tied up in Kubuntu...
[00:45] <bodhi_zazen> Don't all step forward at once =)
[00:45] <duanedesign> bodhi_zazen: the support will be prvided not by BT
[00:45] <bodhi_zazen> You see, all this team does any more is debate, no workers
[00:46] <IAmNotThatGuy> bodhi_zazen, I am always in. But Promise me that  a -tem channel exists
[00:46] <IAmNotThatGuy> -team*
[00:46] <duanedesign> bodhi_zazen: the spport will be provided by the teams we mentor users for
[00:46] <bodhi_zazen> duanedesign: I thought we agreed to split the team into two roles - support AND working with other teams
[00:46]  * MrChrisDruif is off, bicker among yourselves. I think the document Charles put up is the direction we should try to go for.
[00:46] <bodhi_zazen> we should first start by defining the BT mission
[00:47] <bodhi_zazen> duanedesign: I agree with your definition "the spport will be provided by the teams we mentor users for"
[00:47] <duanedesign> bodhi_zazen: at its most simp[le. Help users get involved in the community
[00:47] <bodhi_zazen> I agree, drop support form BT, support goes to IRC, forms, LP, etc
[00:47] <bodhi_zazen> I would agree with that definition, and I think the entire council would as well
[00:48] <jledbetter> I agree with that mission, duanedesign, for what it's worth.
[00:48] <bodhi_zazen> The rest of the team, however, is not willing to do that
[00:48] <DarkwingDuck> +1 the statement
[00:48] <bodhi_zazen> Which would mean forking the team
[00:48] <jledbetter> bodhi_zazen, Am I in the "rest of the team" statement still?
[00:48] <DarkwingDuck> Why not?
[00:48] <bodhi_zazen> One team for community involvement and one for support
[00:49] <phillw> bodhi_zazen: does that mean dropping MOTU training? As they understood it was going to be UBT?
[00:49] <bodhi_zazen> phillw: depends on who you ask
[00:49] <jledbetter> I thought MOTU had a mentoring project?
[00:50] <phillw> bodhi_zazen: indeed, so a meeting like this is good :)
[00:50] <phillw> jledbetter: not really, they were heading to UBT
[00:50] <bodhi_zazen> Personally I would drop the support role from the BT and change to getting people involved in the community
[00:50] <bodhi_zazen> I think the entire council wants that
[00:51] <duanedesign> a lot of active users like to give supprt. So i think we politely nudge then to #ubuntu
[00:51] <bodhi_zazen> move support to the appropriate, already existing community infrastructure - forums, LP, IRC, wiki
[00:52] <bodhi_zazen> The BT is for"Help users get involved in the community"
[00:52] <phillw> bodhi_zazen: you know through ~lubuntu, I do want at least one of our devs to become MOTU, He is capabble, but the the teams do not sema to be able to decide who says 'yes'
[00:52] <bodhi_zazen> so this may mean directing them to forums, IRC, LP wiki
[00:52] <DarkwingDuck> This is what I am looking for. 1) I don't like duplicated efforts. 2) I believe in helping new contributers make the transition into a team that works on a 6 month cycle with hardcore deadlines. 3) I believe in helping new people to Ubuntu.
[00:52] <bodhi_zazen> or MOTU or what have you
[00:53] <DarkwingDuck> 4) I dislike people who try to use teams to inflate egos.
[00:53] <bodhi_zazen> The actual "work" gets done by the wiki team, or on #ubuntu, or on the fourms
[00:53] <PabloRubianes> One moment!
[00:53] <bkerensa> DarkwingDuck: +1
[00:54] <PabloRubianes> I think we vote for a council... so this is just input
[00:54] <bodhi_zazen> So again, back to square one, mission statement please =)
[00:54] <bodhi_zazen> Probably need to stage the transition to be honest
[00:55] <bodhi_zazen> Change mission statement to support and Help users get involved in the community
[00:55] <bodhi_zazen> nudge members to #ubuntu or LP or MOTU
[00:55] <bodhi_zazen> In 6-12 months re-define the mission statement to only "Help users get involved in the community"
[00:55] <PabloRubianes> what's wrong to give support? waste of time? or something?
[00:55] <PabloRubianes> you are not oblide to do it
[00:56] <bodhi_zazen> Nothing is wrong with it
[00:56] <bodhi_zazen> In the past support was the core of the mission statement, and we are changing
[00:56] <phillw> PabloRubianes: some we win, some we lose - that should not stop us trying
[00:57] <bodhi_zazen> so support will be provided not by the BT, but by existing teams / venues == less duplication of effort, etc
[00:57] <DarkwingDuck> Okay sorry gang.. Kids are yelling and I need to support the wife.
[00:57] <jledbetter> DarkwingDuck, See you later. Thank you for coming:)
[00:59] <phillw> bodhi_zazen: I'd give a +1 for that :)
[01:00] <bodhi_zazen> My proposal would be - Change the mission statement to include BOTH support AND Help users get involved in the community
[01:01] <bodhi_zazen> Expect those who want to do #2 , Help users get involved in the community, build the bridges over the next 6 months
[01:01] <bodhi_zazen> then re-evaluate
[01:01] <phillw> bodhi_zazen: how many coucil members are here?
[01:01] <bodhi_zazen> Depending on what progress is made we can morph to Help users get involved in the community or support ONLY, or continue on the dual path
[01:02] <bodhi_zazen> seem like that would make the most people happy
[01:02] <bodhi_zazen> poke Calling all FC council members
[01:02]  * bodhi_zazen is here
[01:03] <bodhi_zazen> The team also has to find a more effective method of communication, not everyone can make IRC meetings
[01:04] <phillw> as do rioters, if you would propose your motion.
[01:05] <bodhi_zazen> phillw: you willing to post that on the BT mailing list ?
[01:05] <bodhi_zazen> Ask people to vote on the mailing list ?
[01:05] <bodhi_zazen> Or set up some other voting method ?
[01:05] <bodhi_zazen> We could take a straw poll here now
[01:06] <bodhi_zazen> Please vote , Dual mission (+1) ?
[01:07] <phillw> bodhi_zazen: with the greatest of pleasure, but there is a PM for you :)
[01:07] <jledbetter> duanedesign, You can do #vote and I think it'll tally up votes for you
[01:08] <PabloRubianes> we are voting now?
[01:08] <jledbetter> bodhi_zazen put a vote to the floor
[01:09] <bodhi_zazen> jledbetter: I do not think I can do that
[01:09] <jledbetter> Why not, bodhi_zazen?
[01:09] <bodhi_zazen> My point is, I do not think there are enough people here now to vote, we should up it up on the mailing list
[01:09] <jledbetter> Alright. Sounds good. I second that motion.
[01:11] <jledbetter> duanedesign, Still with us?
[01:11] <DarkwingDuck> I'm back
[01:12] <bodhi_zazen> welcome back DarkwingDuck
[01:18] <DarkwingDuck> Are we done here?
[01:18] <bkerensa> Mmm
[01:18] <bkerensa> Done are we?
[01:18] <DarkwingDuck> Dunno, I came back and nothing.
[01:19] <jledbetter> bodhi_zazen, I think, was making a motion to vote on the mission on the mailing list.
[01:19] <DarkwingDuck> +1
[01:19] <jledbetter> We seem to have lost duanedesign to the RL monster so can't #vote or #endmeeting :)
[01:19] <jledbetter> DarkwingDuck, Since you're our other leader here. Feel free to stick a fork in it :)
[01:20] <DarkwingDuck> Anything else anyone else wants to bring up?
[01:22] <JasonO> What about the people who want to be mentored? Just received an email from a new person.
[01:22] <JasonO> Or was that previously mentioned?
[01:23] <JasonO> :/
[01:24] <IAmNotThatGuy> JasonO, Mentoring will happen (According to the FGs)
[01:24] <JasonO> Okey. FGs?
[01:24] <IAmNotThatGuy> but I am still not sure whether #ubuntu-beginners-team will exist or not
[01:24] <IAmNotThatGuy> Focus Group
[01:25] <JasonO> Oh.
[01:25] <DarkwingDuck> Why wouldn't it exist?
[01:33] <jledbetter> Well, I need to get back to work :) See y'all later!
[01:33] <DarkwingDuck> #endmeeting
[01:33] <DarkwingDuck> duanedesign: ping
[10:47] <duanedesign> +
[14:57] <seb128> hey
[14:59] <jibel> o/
[14:59]  * wendar = pseudoskaet waves
[14:59]  * joshuahoover waves
[14:59]  * charlie-tca waves
[15:00] <wendar> hi all, let's get started
[15:00] <wendar> #startmeeting
[15:00] <wendar> #topic Oneiric Release Meeting overview - wendar
[15:00] <wendar> .
[15:00] <wendar> Agenda is at:
[15:00] <meetingology> wendar: Error: Can't start another meeting, one is in progress.
[15:00] <wendar> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2011-08-12
[15:00] <wendar> .
[15:01] <slangasek> duanedesign: could you end your meeting? :)
[15:01] <slangasek> pseudoskaet... sounds clinical
[15:02] <cjwatson> hi
[15:03] <wendar> slangasek: I don't see duanedesign, can we force an old meeting to end?
[15:03] <highvoltage> did this meeting move to an hour earlier? usually I can't make it but this is nice :)
[15:03] <charlie-tca> AlanBell: is there any way to end an old meeting now?
[15:03] <slangasek> wendar: only if we have someone ( AlanBell ?) who can kick it on the server
[15:04] <apw> last time this occured, someone just /nick'd to the person who should have closed their meeting and #endmeeting'd
[15:05] <slangasek> ah, but duanedesign is still on the channel :/
[15:05] <apw> poop
[15:05] <slangasek> I think we've no choice but to move ahead without the bot to back us?
[15:05] <AlanBell> #endmeeting
[15:05] <wendar> thanks, AlanBell
[15:06] <AlanBell> it didn't do it
[15:06] <AlanBell> I will try and do it another way
[15:07] <AlanBell> #startmeeting
[15:07] <AlanBell> nope . . .
[15:08] <wendar> let's carry on, then
[15:08] <Mkaysi> Is there some file which can be edited for meeting to stop?
[15:08] <wendar> thanks for trying
[15:08] <Mkaysi> @help config reload
[15:08] <meetingology> Mkaysi: (config reload takes no arguments) -- Reloads the various configuration files (user database, channel database, registry, etc.).
[15:08] <Mkaysi> Could do it after editing config
[15:08]  * AlanBell restarts the bot
[15:08] <AlanBell> I was going to code something up to automatically end a meeting after an hour of inactivity or something
[15:09] <AlanBell> try now
[15:09] <wendar> #startmeeting
[15:10] <AlanBell> and again
[15:10] <wendar> #startmeeting
[15:10] <meetingology> Meeting started Fri Aug 12 15:10:33 2011 UTC.  The chair is wendar. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
[15:10] <meetingology> Useful Commands: #topic #action #link #idea #voters #vote #chair #action #agreed #help #info #endmeeting.
[15:10] <AlanBell> yay
[15:10] <wendar> yay!
[15:10] <wendar> onward...
[15:10] <wendar> #topic Oneiric Release Meeting overview - wendar
[15:10] <wendar> .
[15:10] <wendar> Agenda is at:
[15:10] <wendar> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2011-08-12
[15:10] <meetingology> TOPIC: Oneiric Release Meeting overview - wendar
[15:10] <wendar> .
[15:11] <AlanBell> interestingly enough, unloading a plugin isn't case sensitive, but loading it again is!
[15:11] <wendar> 11.10 FeatureFreeze : August 11, 2011 at 2100 UTC
[15:11] <wendar> If new features still need to be uploaded,  please follow:
[15:11] <wendar> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess
[15:11] <AlanBell> and the plugin is "MeetBot"
[15:11] <wendar> .
[15:11] <wendar> Upcoming events:
[15:11] <wendar> - 11.10 BetaFreeze: Aug 25, 2011 at 2100 UTC.
[15:11] <wendar> - 11.10 UserInterfaceFreeze: August 25, 2011 at 2100 UTC.
[15:11] <wendar> - 11.10 Beta 1: Sept 1, 2011.
[15:11] <wendar> .
[15:11] <slangasek> AlanBell: yay posix semantics :)
[15:11] <wendar> Bugs targetted for this release can be found:
[15:11] <wendar> #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/oneiric/+bugs
[15:11] <wendar> Bugs milestoned for oneiric beta-1 are at:
[15:11] <wendar> #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/oneiric/+bugs?field.milestone%
[15:11] <wendar> 3Alist=39143
[15:11] <wendar> .
[15:11] <wendar> Other news:
[15:11] <wendar> Please take a moment to complete the bug life cycle survey,
[15:11] <wendar> #link https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/viewform?formkey=dGZqcm9YS083V19XT1RSMmV1RFJ2U3c6MQ
[15:11] <wendar> your input on helping us improve our workflow would be much appreciated. The survey closes next Friday.
[15:12] <wendar> .
[15:12] <wendar> Reminder:   please use ".." on separate line when you've finished
[15:12] <wendar> typing.   If someone wants to comment during the updates, please "o/",
[15:12] <wendar> so we know to wait.
[15:12] <wendar> questions?
[15:12] <wendar> ..
[15:13] <wendar> #topic QA team update -  jibel or pgraner
[15:13] <meetingology> TOPIC: QA team update -  jibel or pgraner
[15:13] <jibel> Hey all
[15:14] <jibel> * Automated Testing progress
[15:14] <jibel>   * public jenkins is available: https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/
[15:14] <jibel> Test from the private instance will be added to the public instance in the coming weeks
[15:14] <jibel>   * Created isolated VM environment for DX to run tests
[15:15] <jibel>   * New tests added to daily run for alternate and desktop OEM install
[15:15] <jibel> * Follow up on A3 ISO Testing
[15:15] <jibel>   * bugs from Alpha 3 ISO Testing have been affected to the engineering team or defect analysts for review.
[15:16] <jibel> * Bug activity
[15:16] <jibel>  * Top 5 packages with most opened bugs reported during last week (over a total of 471 unique reports (no dups))
[15:16] <jibel> unity: 50 reports (10.62%)
[15:16] <jibel> compiz: 26 reports (5.52%)
[15:16] <jibel> linux: 20 reports (4.25%)
[15:16] <jibel> software-center: 19 reports (4.03%)
[15:16] <jibel> nautilus: 17 reports (3.61%)
[15:16] <jibel>  * 33 reports are regression (7% of the bugs reported over last week)
[15:16] <jibel>  unity/compiz, ati and intel video driver and various gnome applications
[15:16] <jibel> ..
[15:16] <jibel> any questions ?
[15:16] <jibel> or comment
[15:17] <charlie-tca> o/
[15:17] <jibel> charlie-tca, please ask
[15:18] <charlie-tca> Does jenkins being public mean we can now get Xubuntu images tested automatically?
[15:18] <charlie-tca> or is that not an appropriate question here and I will discuss later?
[15:19] <jibel> it is not ready yet, we'll first publish what we are currently running on the private instance.
[15:19] <charlie-tca> Okay, thanks
[15:19] <charlie-tca> ..
[15:19] <jibel> we can talk about it during next qa meeting, please add an item to the agenda
[15:19] <wendar> Any more questions for jibel?
[15:20] <wendar> #topic Hardware Certification team update - mlegris
[15:20] <meetingology> TOPIC: Hardware Certification team update - mlegris
[15:20] <mlegris> Hi all o/
[15:20] <mlegris> [Week 32 Testing Report]
[15:20] <mlegris> A3 Testing this week, ~200 systems being manually tested
[15:20] <mlegris> [link] http://people.canonical.com/~hwcert/oneiric-testing/oneiric_alpha3.html
[15:20] <mlegris> ~100 tested so far, about halfway through the laptop/desktop pile :)
[15:20] <mlegris> .
[15:20] <mlegris> Bugs:
[15:20] <mlegris> ~20 HW specific bugs reported against Oneiric
[15:21] <mlegris> ..
[15:22] <wendar> any questions?
[15:22] <wendar> #topic Security team update - micahg or mdeslaur
[15:22] <meetingology> TOPIC: Security team update - micahg or mdeslaur
[15:23] <micahg> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/ReleaseStatus/Oneiric
[15:23] <micahg> [LINK] http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-oneiric/canonical-security.html
[15:23] <micahg> We are on the trend line for our assigned work items in our blueprints. We are trying to balance reactive security with work items at this time, and are getting to our remaining work items as time allows.
[15:23] <micahg> A new apparmor snapshot landed before Feature Freeze, there might be a need for an FFe for the dbus mediation, but we'll know more next week.
[15:23] <micahg> Looking at the list of oneiric bugs, I don't see anything else worth highlighting.
[15:23] <micahg> ..
[15:24] <wendar> Any other FFe's likely from security?
[15:24] <micahg> Depending on if I have time, I might need some for apparmor browser profiles
[15:25] <micahg> but it's already getting late for that
[15:25] <mdeslaur> possibly a couple of FFe's to continue migrating away from gksu to pkexec
[15:25] <wendar> ok, thanks
[15:25] <wendar> other questions for micahg?
[15:26] <wendar> #topic Kernel team update - ogasawara
[15:26] <meetingology> TOPIC: Kernel team update - ogasawara
[15:26] <ogasawara> Overall status is reported at the first link below.  Burn down for Oneiric Beta-1 is at the second link below.  Burndown for the cycle is at the third link:
[15:26] <ogasawara> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Oneiric
[15:26] <ogasawara> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/canonical-kernel-team-ubuntu-11.10-beta-1.html
[15:26] <ogasawara> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/canonical-kernel-team.svg
[15:27] <ogasawara> Last week we uploaded the Ubuntu 3.0.0-8.10 kernel.  This was rebased onto upstream stable v3.0.1.  We've queued some security and bug fixes recently and plan to upload soon.  We are currently trending above our burn down chats and will begin raising any outstanding work items that need finishing with the team.  They are not release critical.
[15:27] <ogasawara> Of the bugs called out on the agenda against the kernel, status is as follows:
[15:27] <ogasawara> #542660: looks to be related to EFI boot not loading the video bios into ram.
[15:27] <ogasawara> #557261: awaiting updated dmesg output.
[15:27] <ogasawara> #708286: assigned to kernel dev and actively being investigated.
[15:27] <ogasawara> #754711: on a 3.0 oneiric kernel, system now suspends but doesn't resume.  systemtap debug scripts to help investigate are being worked on for Oneiric, see 815944 (systemtap fix recently posted upstream).
[15:27] <ogasawara> #758486: updated debug information attached, investigation ongoing.
[15:27] <ogasawara> #760131: partly fixed in Oneiric and soon natty, more analysis ongoing upstream.
[15:27] <ogasawara> #784937: investigation by kernel dev still ongoing as well as discussion with upstream.
[15:27] <ogasawara> #790712: the order 5 allocation seems to be bogus and non-fatal; further investigation ongoing.
[15:27] <ogasawara> #791850: kernel dev able to reproduce on a CentOS test system.  appears to have isolated the bad commit.  investigation remains ongoing.
[15:27] <ogasawara> #793486: the requested debug info has been attached, investigation ongoing.
[15:28] <ogasawara> Questions?
[15:28] <ogasawara> ..
[15:29] <wendar> #topic Foundations team update - cjwatson
[15:29] <meetingology> TOPIC: Foundations team update - cjwatson
[15:29] <cjwatson> Feature progress this week:
[15:29] <cjwatson>  * foundations-o-ipv6-healthcheck: d-i now supports IPv6.
[15:29] <cjwatson>  * desktop-o-gtk3-gnome3: Completed Ubiquity port to PyGI.  (This is blocked on resolving webcam-related dependencies before upload, but that should be finished ASAP; Evan is going to write an FFe request.)
[15:29] <cjwatson>  * foundations-o-great-cd-debate: Allison's USB seeds landed (and decrufted).  After discussion with Kate et al, we'll finish converting the DVD images to these next week.
[15:29] <cjwatson>  * desktop-o-cd-localization: syslinux-theme-ubuntu uploaded, and fixed some associated live-build issues.  The generated images are still somewhat broken, but should be easily fixable at this point.
[15:30] <cjwatson>  * foundations-o-ubiquity: Wireless networking page merged.
[15:30] <cjwatson>  * Upstart: Sprint held last week: see https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/upstart-devel/2011-August/001707.html for a summary.
[15:30] <cjwatson>  * foundations-o-dhpython-transition: python-support and python-central removed from all Ubuntu CDs by FF.
[15:30] <cjwatson>  * foundations-o-multiarch-next-steps: skype installable from the archive via multiarch (modulo a Qt fix).
[15:30] <cjwatson> I don't have a bug update right now, just working our way through them ...
[15:30] <cjwatson> Also part of the multiarch spec is still pending an LP rollout
[15:30] <cjwatson> ..
[15:31] <wendar> Questions for cjwatson?
[15:31] <wendar> Any FFe's anticipated from Foundations?
[15:32] <cjwatson> ubiquity as mentioned above
[15:33] <cjwatson> it's possible we'll need something for the tail-end of localised image building
[15:33] <cjwatson> I think the apt mirror method is probably shelved for this cycle due to being blocked on IS, but if IS come through on that it's possible we might consider that since the code is mostly done on our side
[15:34] <cjwatson> aside from that I'm not aware of anything but I will keep the release team informed if anything else does come to my attention
[15:34] <wendar> great
[15:34] <cjwatson> (this may reflect my lack of knowledge as much as anything else though ;-) )
[15:35] <wendar> (skaet asked me to pester everyone about FFe's, so she can look over the logs later)
[15:35] <cjwatson> yeah
[15:35] <wendar> Daviey and most of the server team are traveling after the sprint, so we'll skip them.
[15:36] <wendar> But, I hear great progress was made this week.
[15:36] <wendar> #topic ARM team update - ogra
[15:36] <meetingology> TOPIC: ARM team update - ogra
[15:36] <ogra_> oops
[15:36] <ogra_> = Full Status is at: =
[15:36] <ogra_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARMTeam/ReleaseStatus/Oneiric
[15:36] <ogra_> --
[15:36] <ogra_> = Summary =
[15:36] <ogra_>  - Parts of the ARM team attended the LXC/server meeting this week.
[15:36] <ogra_>  - TI/linaro reworked u-boot to not need a separate x-loader package anymore, this will require some changes
[15:36] <ogra_>    to build system and bootloader tools which will likely need freeze exceptions (the change sadly was only announced yesterday)
[15:36] <ogra_>  - Cleanup of jasper is ongoing
[15:36] <ogra_>  - AC100 image is in progess, ac100-tarball installer sits in NEW awaiting review, debian-cd changes are pending
[15:36] <ogra_>  - mx5 images are in progress, kernel sits in NEW, awaiting review
[15:36] <ogra_>  - server QA testing is ongoing
[15:37] <ogra_> --
[15:37] <ogra_> = Image Status =
[15:37] <ogra_>  - Desktop images don't build due to archive skew
[15:37] <ogra_>  - Server images build and install fine
[15:37] <ogra_>  - Netboot images work fine
[15:37] <ogra_> --
[15:37] <ogra_> = Specs =
[15:37] <ogra_>  - Entire http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/ubuntu-armel.html
[15:37] <ogra_>  - B1 http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/ubuntu-armel-ubuntu-11.10-beta-1.html
[15:37] <ogra_>    (the tracker has only been adjusted today for the new launchpad team name, WI tracker should pick up tomorrow)
[15:38] <ogra_> ..
[15:38] <wendar> Questions for ogra?
[15:38] <dbarth> o/
[15:39] <ogra_> shoot
[15:39] <dbarth> GL-ES patches for compiz / nux
[15:39] <dbarth> do you have the "bandwidth" to take that at this stage?
[15:39] <dbarth> (there should be a discussion on monday about that in the team as well)
[15:39] <ogra_> afaik the patches exiswt and are on their way upstrream
[15:40] <dbarth> right, but i want to get a feel of who's onboard to have that change go
[15:40] <dbarth> we can take that offline or on monday
[15:40] <ogra_> ok
[15:40] <ogra_> it is expected that we ship GLES support in unity in oneiric
[15:41] <ogra_> so we better find out who adds them ;)
[15:42] <dbarth> the branch arrived a few days ago, right, we need to find out
[15:42] <ogra_> afaik it shouldnt be much effort though given they were all written in an upstreamable way for natty
[15:43] <ogra_> anything else ?
[15:43] <dbarth> nope
[15:43] <ogra_> :)
[15:43] <ogra_> ..
[15:43] <wendar> #topic Linaro update - fabo or rsalveti
[15:43] <meetingology> TOPIC: Linaro update - fabo or rsalveti
[15:43] <fabo> o/
[15:43] <fabo> Linaro update - courtesy of rsalveti
[15:44] <fabo>  * Cross toolchain based on 4.6 for armel/armhf updated against latest gcc update
[15:44] <fabo>  * linux-linaro-lt-mx5 (freescale landing team tree, based on .38 with Natty's sauce on top) pushed to the archive, janimo will be creating ubuntu images with it for imx53
[15:44] <fabo>  * Good discussions at Connect about continuous integration and validation for the Linaro components. Upstream and Linaro kernel validation should be the first steps.
[15:44] <fabo>  * May need a FFe if the x-loader replacement with U-Boot SPL goes fine with Linaro 11.08 release (require image changes for at least omap 4)
[15:44] <fabo>  * Good progress at bug 810402 by Dave Martin, seems we have at least a valid workaround, what should help with tons of ARM FTBFS
[15:44] <fabo>  * Seems no progress with bug 775849, we had a conversation with Michael Hope and doko, but it seems this bug is still not at the TWG radar
[15:44] <fabo> ..
[15:44] <wendar> Any questions for fabo?
[15:45] <doko> fabo: the TWG doesn't seem to be responsible for it
[15:46] <fabo> doko: the bug is assigned to the TWG. If they aren't responsible, we should find the right assignee
[15:47] <wendar> doko: any suggestions on who should take it on?
[15:47] <doko> ubuntu-arm?
[15:50] <wendar> sounds like there may be a little bug handoff needed, we can find out if they're willing to adopt it this week
[15:50] <fabo> well, please re-assign to ubuntu-arm. we'll follow with the TWG in case they find time to look at it.
[15:50] <wendar> will add it to the action items so kate remembers to check up on it next week
[15:51] <wendar> ogra: ^
[15:51] <wendar> other questions for fabo?
[15:52] <wendar> #topic Desktop Team update - kenvandine or seb128 or pitti
[15:52] <meetingology> TOPIC: Desktop Team update - kenvandine or seb128 or pitti
[15:52] <seb128> hey wendar
[15:52] <wendar> hi
[15:52] <seb128> pitti is travelling back so it's me
[15:52] <seb128> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus
[15:52] <seb128> [LINK] http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-oneiric/canonical-desktop-team-ubuntu-11.10-beta-1.html
[15:52] <seb128> [LINK] http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-oneiric/canonical-desktop-team.html
[15:53] <seb128> * Reduced activity during a part of the week due the desktop summit participation and holidays
[15:53] <seb128> * We got most of the feature landed before the feature freeze though
[15:53] <seb128> * New unity and indicator stack got uploaded on time for the freeze (with quite some bugs though)
[15:53] <seb128> * Compiz still pending from dx, will likely need a ffe
[15:53] <seb128> * GNOME 3.1.5 coming next week
[15:53] <seb128>  
[15:53] <seb128> * pitti pinged me just an hour before the meeting so I didn't manage to review the bug list, we will do that next week now that the ff is over
[15:53] <seb128> * the retracers are down, not sure when they will be sorted
[15:53] <seb128> * we will like have a ffe requests (lightdm, gwibber, telepathy-indicator, thunderbird u1 contacts syncing, ...)
[15:53] <seb128> ..
[15:53] <wendar> Questions for seb128?
[15:55] <wendar> #topic Desktop Experience Team Update - dbarth or njpatel
[15:55] <meetingology> TOPIC: Desktop Experience Team Update - dbarth or njpatel
[15:55] <dbarth> hi
[15:55] <dbarth> full report at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopExperienceTeam/OneiricReleaseStatus
[15:55] <dbarth> to add to what seb128 just said
[15:55] <dbarth> unity 4.8 released on time, along with unity-2d
[15:56] <dbarth> we have bugs but we're there
[15:56] <dbarth> the compiz release was scattered later this week: we have test package ready, we're assessing the quality of the latest changes to request an FFE or fallback to an earlier version
[15:57] <dbarth> indicators got a nice update with the rest of the peripherals support we had planned for O
[15:57] <dbarth> the touch team has hit 100% on the work items board, with eog / evince support now in 11.10
[15:58] <dbarth> and we're on top of the upper half of the CJK issue, knowing that the bottom half is now fixed
[15:58] <dbarth> i take this occasion to remind people about the CJK call for testing sent o u-devel this week
[15:59] <dbarth> status for the bugs on the radar:
[15:59] <dbarth> [805063]: on the work list, will start fixing those regressions next week
[15:59] <dbarth> [806358]: probably a driver issue, passed to Jay for further investigation with the xorg team
[15:59] <dbarth> [809378]: didrocks on top of it, was fixed but there is a further regression elsewhere
[15:59] <dbarth> [814065]: invalid, design guidance sought
[15:59] <dbarth> [810145]: incomplete, investigating to get a reproducible test case
[15:59] <dbarth> ..
[16:00] <wendar> Any other FFE's anticipated beyond what you and seb already mentioned?
[16:01] <dbarth> an update to the music lens maybe
[16:01] <dbarth> but that's still discussed closely with desktop and the release team
[16:01] <wendar> a delightfully short list, thanks
[16:01] <wendar> other questions for dbarth?
[16:01] <dbarth> hpopefully yes ;)
[16:03] <wendar> #topic Kubuntu Team update - ScottK
[16:03] <meetingology> TOPIC: Kubuntu Team update - ScottK
[16:03] <doko> seb128: when will gnome updates start next week?
[16:04] <seb128> doko, today, I'm going to upload a few, continued on monday and tuesday next week
[16:04] <doko> gah ...
[16:06] <wendar> doko: want to elaborate before we go on to Edubuntu? or, just a passing comment?
[16:06] <doko> no, just did hope for some stability for a test rebuild
[16:08] <ScottK> wendar: I'm here now.
[16:08] <wendar> seb128/doko: sounds like it would be helpful to coordinate a time of relative stability
[16:08] <ScottK> For Kubuntu we are in good shape for base KDE/distro packages.  We didn't get all the feature work done we wanted due to less manpower this cycle.
[16:09] <ScottK> I anticipate a standing FFe for additional (tech preview) work on plasma-mobile/active work.
[16:10] <ScottK> slangasek multiarch'ed qt4-x11 yesterday, so waiting to see how that works out.
[16:10] <ScottK> ...
[16:10] <wendar> Questions for ScottK?
[16:11] <wendar> #topic Xubuntu Team update - charlie-tca
[16:11] <meetingology> TOPIC: Xubuntu Team update - charlie-tca
[16:11] <charlie-tca> There were no desktop images all week. We have gotten fresh desktop images today. Don't know if they work yet because the syncs are taking a long time due to the massive changes.
[16:12] <charlie-tca> * #789333: "users-admin crashes on start because of mixed GTK2 and 3 symbols" - derivatives are working on this, hopefully will have a fix for beta1.
[16:12] <charlie-tca> * #799238: "Xubuntu i386 and amd64 20110618 xserver abort" - resolved with current xorg
[16:12] <charlie-tca> * #820731: "Oneiric Ocelot Xubuntu Desktop images fail to install" - Don't know which casper upload fixed it, there were two. One of them did fix the issues.
[16:12] <charlie-tca> * #820460: "User not created with encrypted home partition: user-setup exit code 32" - fixed
[16:12] <charlie-tca> Don't really know what the status of lightdm is now for derivatives. Not having valid images made testing difficult.
[16:13] <charlie-tca> Xubuntu will ask for FFe's as they come up. We are waiting for things to settle down now after FeatureFreeze to see how good  everything is. :)
[16:13] <charlie-tca> Any questions?
[16:13] <charlie-tca> ..
[16:14] <wendar> #topic Edubuntu Team update - highvoltage
[16:14] <meetingology> TOPIC: Edubuntu Team update - highvoltage
[16:14] <stgraber> highvoltage: around? or should I do the Edubuntu update?
[16:15] <stgraber> hmm, guess I'll go ahead (quite likely highvoltage is out for lunch at this time)
[16:15] <stgraber> so not much on Edubuntu's side. alpha-3 went quite well and we didn't have anything big to push by feature freeze
[16:16] <stgraber> the biggest news is that our installer is now fully translated (took a long time to get it working)
[16:16] <stgraber> I fixed LTSP to actually install and work but we'll still need to rewrite the current LTSP live plugin as it doesn't work with NM 0.9
[16:17] <stgraber> we'll file a FFe for the LTSP live work (as it's going to be a full rewrite to use the NM API instead of ignoring it)
[16:17] <stgraber> I saw that lightdm is now apparently fixed to work for derivatives so that's still on our todo list (as we offer two choices of desktop environment)
[16:17] <stgraber> other than that, I think that's it for Edubuntu
[16:17] <stgraber> any questions?
[16:17] <stgraber> ..
[16:19] <wendar> gilir is on holiday, so we'll skip Lubuntu
[16:19] <wendar> #topic Toolchain update - slangasek or doko
[16:19] <meetingology> TOPIC: Toolchain update - slangasek or doko
[16:22] <wendar> they were both around earlier, perhaps they'll pop back on in a minute
[16:22] <wendar> #topic MOTU team update - tumbleweed
[16:22] <meetingology> TOPIC: MOTU team update - tumbleweed
[16:22] <tumbleweed> The usual, lots of FTBFS packages:
[16:22] <tumbleweed> http://corelli.tumbleweed.org.za/ubuntu-qa/qa-ftbfs/oneiric-historical.html
[16:22] <tumbleweed> a handful of RC Bugs to look at merging/picking:
[16:22] <tumbleweed> http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/bugs/rcbugs/oneiric/
[16:22] <tumbleweed> a good number of unfinished transitions:
[16:22] <tumbleweed> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/transitions/
[16:22] <tumbleweed> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/nbs.html
[16:22] <tumbleweed> I saw a few new releases and dh_python2 transitions without FFes, this morning. I assume we're giving them some slack for a day or so?
[16:23] <slangasek> (sorry, I'm here, was just checking with doko which of us should give the update)
[16:23] <tumbleweed> anyway, that's me
[16:23] <tumbleweed> ..
[16:24] <wendar> they should have FFE's, feel free to remind folks who missed
[16:24] <wendar> questions for tumbleweed?
[16:25] <tumbleweed> oh, micahg reminds me that he intends to FFe eclipse (if it's possible without breaking the universe)
[16:26] <wendar> fortunately, eclipse is more of a "leaf" package than a "root node" package
[16:26] <wendar> but, I imagine skaet will want to do some dependency checking
[16:27] <wendar> back to...
[16:27] <wendar> #topic Toolchain update - slangasek or doko
[16:27] <meetingology> TOPIC: Toolchain update - slangasek or doko
[16:27] <micahg> wendar: it is, but its deps aren't necessarily :)
[16:27] <slangasek> the last toolchain updates anticipated for the cycle have been done
[16:28] <wendar> micahg: indeed
[16:28] <slangasek> the latest eglibc from unstable has also been merged up - regressing multiarch support temporarily, but that's worked on
[16:28] <slangasek> now just waiting for the archive to be in a buildable state generally in order to start test rebuilds
[16:28] <slangasek> ..
[16:29] <wendar> questions for slangasek?
[16:30] <wendar> That brings us to the end of reports. Any other questions?
[16:30] <seb128> doko, wendar: I don't expect disturbances due to the GNOME updates
[16:30] <seb128> they are mostly standalone components if they fail to build they should not break other things
[16:30] <charlie-tca> sure, xubuntu will need ffe's for dh_python2 and libssl1.0.0 transitions needed for xubuntu still
[16:32] <tumbleweed> surely libssl1.0.0 transitions are RC bugs, and won't require FFe? (they will be packages that can't currently be rebuilt)
[16:32] <micahg> tumbleweed: yeah, that was a C/P error :)
[16:33] <micahg> err...C&P
[16:33] <charlie-tca> ..
[16:34] <wendar> sounds like that's a wrap
[16:34] <wendar> Thanks jibel, mlegris, michahg, ogaswara, cjwatson, ogra, fabo, seb128, dbarth, ScottK, charlie-tca, stgraber, tumbleweed, slangasek and all!
[16:34] <slangasek> thanks, wendar!
[16:34] <charlie-tca> Thank you, wendar, for chairing!
[16:34] <seb128> thanks wendar
[16:34] <wendar> #endmeeting
[16:34] <meetingology> Meeting ended Fri Aug 12 16:34:31 2011 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot . (v 0.1.4)
[16:34] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-08-12-15.10.moin.txt
[16:34] <stgraber> thanks wendar! see you at LinuxCon
[16:34] <jibel> thanks for chairing wendar
[16:34] <wendar> see you there!
[16:35] <micahg> thanks wendar
[16:42] <highvoltage> (thanks stgraber)
[16:47] <stgraber> highvoltage: np. I really should add the release meeting to my calendar so I make sure I'm around
[16:48] <stgraber> (I just happened to look at -meeting at the right time)