[01:19] I might JUST be able to make the meeting if I'm up [01:21] godbyk: Are you up? === benonsoftware is now known as OutOfControl [05:17] godbyk: Hay :) [05:17] Hey, OutOfControl. [05:17] How's the website testing going? [05:18] (If I disappear it's because my Internet connection has been up and down all evening.) [05:18] godbyk: I'll send you a URL of a text file I built of the problems [05:18] godbyk: Did you get the message from the contact form? [05:18] Okay. [05:19] If that was the email I responded to, then yes. [05:19] godbyk: Well then on the site I got a error message [05:19] Oh? [05:20] godbyk: You try it :) [05:20] What's the URL to the contact form? [05:20] godbyk: http://test.ubuntu-manual.org/contact [05:22] godbyk: The text file should be at http://nyuszika7h.dyndns.org/~benny/ubuntu-manual/ubuntu-manual.org.txt [05:23] Ah, I see the error you were talking about. [05:23] godbyk: Yeah is that maybe Django is running in Debug mode? [05:24] Well, if it weren't running in debug mode it would just give an http 500 error instead. [05:24] so there's a bug that needs to be fixed in the code. [05:24] Who runs the servers for http://planet.ubuntu-manual.org ? [05:24] godbyk: Ah ok [05:25] godbyk: Oh and changing from English on the site doesn't do a thing [05:25] there probably aren't any translations of the test site yet. [05:26] or it may not be coded up yet. not sure which. [05:26] godbyk: I can't access the site now after changing [05:26] I get Language matching query does not exist. [05:27] probably because the translation files don't exist. [05:27] the planet site was hosted by flan, I think. [05:28] (not that we had many blogs there.) [05:28] or maybe it was dutchie. dutchie, were you hosting the planet site? I can't remember. [05:29] godbyk: Clearing the cache and cookies fix test.ubuntu-manual.org [05:30] godbyk: A few weeks ago you said on the list the site was hacked, what happend? [05:31] I'm not sure how it was hacked yet. [05:31] godbyk: You said you were looking for more web devs I'm happy to help [05:31] But they had modified one of our php files to add some code to the end of each page. [05:31] The code was only added when the http referrer was Google's web crawler, though. [05:32] So when you visited the site with a web browser, you'd never notice [05:32] godbyk: How did they even get into the server? [05:32] But Google got irked because we were providing them with different content than we were providing regular visitors. [05:32] And since that goes against their policies, they removed us from their search index. [05:32] :) [05:32] godbyk:Are we back yet> [05:32] I've removed the offending code and checked that the permissions are correct. [05:33] I notified Google that we've resolved the issue and am now waiting for Google to get around to reviewing the updated site so they can include it in their search results again. [05:33] We are not back on Google yet :( [05:33] I'm not sure how they got into the server yet. [05:33] Could've been a bug in the php code or it could've been a permissions issue. [05:34] Yeah maybe [05:34] Yeah, they said it could take a few weeks for someone to get around to reviewing the site. :-/ [05:34] godbyk: Yeah I remember it happend a while ago [05:34] Btw, the contact form did successfully send an email to me despite the error message. [05:35] godbyk: yeah I revieved your reply [05:36] yes, planet site was me i think [05:37] dutchie: Still up or no? [05:39] Ah, yeah. Looks like planet.ubuntu-manual.org is a CNAME pointing to planet.joshh.co.uk. [05:39] OutOfControl: So complain to dutchie. :-) [05:39] :) [05:39] if i had any sleep in the last 24 hours i'd do it [05:39] can it wait for this afternoon? :) [05:39] dutchie: no rush at all. [05:40] dutchie: OutOfControl is just auditing our websites to see what's working and what's not. [05:40] :) [05:40] we're making a TODO list. [05:40] godbyk: I see we are using Google Apps what version just asking? [05:41] OutOfControl: Lemme check. [05:41] ok no rush :) [05:42] dutchie: Your blogs down :) [05:43] yeah, i'll fix it as soon as i am no longer responsible for other people's servers and have had some sleep [05:43] i hate this shift [05:43] :) [05:44] OutOfControl: Not sure what version. I just transitioned everyone to the latest, though. :) [05:44] godbyk: Ok, wodnering who has access to it? [05:44] dutchie: I liked the night shift. Was usually quiet. [05:45] godbyk: having to switch in and out of it is not fun [05:45] OutOfControl: Mostly old-timers and big-wigs. The primary editors and the like. [05:45] godbyk: Ah ok [05:45] dutchie: That's certainly true. I'm usually up 'til 5 a.m. The other day I had to wake up for a 9 a.m. meeting, though. Not fun. [05:45] a week of 6pm-2am then suddenly into 1am-9am is not pleasant [05:45] oh by the way if I can't make the meeting tomarrow will there be anyting importent? [05:46] OutOfControl: I think they're just going to discuss what needs to be written still and get people on task and working on things. [05:47] godbyk: Well I want to get into a Aurthor and/or Editor Postition [05:47] dutchie: You could probably take a nap and no one would notice. Just have the monitoring software ring the alarm if anything goes amiss. :) [05:47] mmm, i just did that by accident [05:51] godbyk: So you say its all in PHP now right? [05:52] OutOfControl: The current site is php. The test site is python+django. [05:53] godbyk: Would it be better to try out a CMS for it? [05:53] or best instead of better [05:53] OutOfControl: Possibly. If we can find one that does everything we need. [05:54] godbyk: Not Joomla not WP maybe Drupal? [05:54] OutOfControl: I don't know anything about modern CMSes, I'm afraid. [05:55] godbyk: I could help out with it if you would like [05:57] godI'll be back in 30min [07:12] godbyk: Sorry back now, so if you want me to help you set up Drupal I could help [07:14] OutOfControl: No problem. [07:14] OutOfControl: What language does Drupal use? [07:14] godbyk: MySQL and PHP [07:15] godbyk: Does the server have them? [07:16] OutOfControl: Yep. [07:16] godbyk: Ok great then :) [07:17] OutOfControl: Can Drupal handle multilingual websites? Can we use Launchpad to translate the Drupal site? [07:18] godbyk: I THINK so [07:22] godbyk: I have just found https://help.launchpad.net/DrupalPlugins don't know if they will be useful for use though [07:23] cool [07:23] godbyk: Its just for openid I think [07:24] godbyk: We would just need to make/find a theme that would fite [07:24] fit* [07:30] godbyk: So what do you think? [07:31] I don't know enough about Drupal to say if it'd work for us or not. [07:31] I also haven't thought about our site enough lately to know what features we need. [07:31] :) [07:31] Can Drupal do everything our existing site does? [07:32] godbyk: Yeah it should [07:33] godbyk: I'm having been brb in 45min [07:34] 'kay. [07:35] what i know about drupal is that it comes with some terribly convoluted multi-layered css [07:36] (though that might be true of many other platforms on that level, too) [07:38] thorwil: gee, that sounds fun. [08:00] godbyk: Yep I'm back [08:11] godbyk: So what is your mind about Drupal? [08:11] OutOfControl: I don't really have enough info yet to have an informed opinion. [08:12] Perhaps at our next regular meeting we can discuss the features our website requires. [08:12] Then we can figure out if Drupal is a good candidate for it. [08:12] godbyk: Would that be the one in 12 hours time? [08:14] No. The one in 12 hours time is a special meeting. [08:14] godbyk: What is it about again? [08:15] They'll be discussing the writing that still needs to be done for the natty edition. [08:15] And organizing people to work on parts that are lagging behind. [08:25] godbyk: Sorry I'm back internet shutdown [08:27] godbyk: If I'm not at the meeting in 12 hours if they are looking for people for editor/aurthor I'm happy to help [08:33] godbyk: Still there> [08:33] ? === benonsoftware is now known as OutOfControl [08:38] godbyk: I know at the moment a lot of other Ubuntu teams are using Drupal for there sites and you wouldn't guess it :) === OutOfControl is now known as benonsoftware [20:02] evening all [20:57] Evening Rick [20:58] Good evening Chris; Printing a map for Kristen's return trip to university... [20:59] was distracted; How have you been [21:00] Good. I seem to have been busy / away quite a bit recently [21:00] Hello Hannie [21:00] Hoi [21:00] brb [21:00] hi rickfosb and godbyk [21:01] and ChrisWoollard [21:01] o/ [21:02] back now [21:02] hey, hannie [21:03] evening Godbyk [21:03] rickfosb, can you give me a link to the shared spreadsheet, please [21:03] Hey, ChrisWoollard. How was your holiday? [21:03] hannie: sure [21:03] Good thanks [21:04] ChrisWoollard, hoe gaat het/how ae you? [21:04] A lovely trip to the Netherlands [21:04] ah, lots of rain I heard ;) [21:04] Ik ben Goed [21:04] Link to spreadsheet: https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AtkeORuPIMxsdGtWRXlvdHB4bktTNkF5LTNwWU5KQnc&hl=en_US&authkey=CNDambUJ [21:04] rickfosb, thanks [21:07] There was a lot of rain but it only occuring in the eveing so it was fine [21:08] Who else are we expecting? [21:08] Me. :) [21:08] Eveing Muscovy [21:08] C7p was going to be here I thought [21:09] Good mornterevening. [21:09] :) [21:09] Bryan is out of town [21:09] last night, c7p told me: "i g2g, i'll go for this weekend to my village. So i guess i will be off for these 2 days. If i'm not present at the meeting time start the meeting" [21:10] and Kartik? [21:12] I dont know about Kartik; let mecheck the poll real quick. [21:13] rickfosb, I have added some things to The Ubuntu Desktop page of the spreadsheet [21:13] Kartik did not select this time; he might not have been available [21:13] ok, let's start then [21:13] Great. [21:14] who is the chair? [21:15] I don't think there's an agenda. [21:15] It's more of an informal gathering. :) [21:15] I'll take that; Was going to keep the meeting very loose today [21:15] What I'd like to do is to continue to divide the chapter into small bytes [21:15] I assume there will be a status update for those that have not been around :) [21:15] Sorry I'm late [21:16] benonsoftwary: glad you're here. [21:16] Yeah so whats happening now [21:16] Hannie: on the update you just made, do you already have text? Benonsoftware: just starting [21:17] Thanks [21:17] rickfosb, I sent you the text on Nautilus [21:17] The text in prologue is just a few lines which I still have to review [21:18] Hannie: perfedt [21:18] *perfect [21:18] Team: an update [21:18] It is not clear where we should refer to at the moment [21:18] hannie? [21:18] (i'll type an update in just a sec) [21:18] rickfosb, I mean which chapter to refer to in Prologue [21:19] rickfosb, go ahead, I'll talk about this later [21:19] Sorry :) [21:19] hannie: ok. [21:23] rickfosb, are you typing such an extensive update? [21:23] Just wondering on the email I revieved about the meeting, it said Desktopworking session if your looking for help I'll put my hand [21:23] up [21:27] I think rick may have some computer problems...let's wait until he is back === cwoo is now known as ChrisWoollard [21:27] Ok I'm fine [21:28] ChrisWoollard, you're like a yoyo [21:28] Something went screwy with my connection to the web [21:29] At this moment I am listening to the cry of baby owls in my attic [21:29] They are crying for food. Mama brings them big, fat mice [21:30] * benonsoftware is still tired [21:30] hey, rickfosb2 back again [21:30] rickfosb2: the reincarnation of rickfosb. :) [21:31] sorry guys; internet fail! [21:31] :) [21:31] np [21:31] I'm cloned :) [21:31] hence 2 [21:31] :) [21:31] ahh [21:31] That's weird I had that at exactly the same time [21:32] and an ocean between the two of you [21:32] Well, what I had typed was that I've pushed minor text changes to the chapter; [21:32] (Al Gore got us) Me for not being green... can't say why Chris was snagged ! :) [21:33] Maybe I was rioting [21:33] Is there an overview of the chapter somewhere? [21:33] Changes to the chapter submitted by Kartik. These changes re minor. (Chris: ha!) [21:33] So (7:23:55 AM) benonsoftware: Just wondering on the email I revieved about the meeting, it said Desktopworking session if your looking for help I'll put my hand [21:33] (7:23:57 AM) benonsoftware: up [21:34] The most recent overview is the proposed outline in the Ubuntu Desktop tab [21:34] ok, but can we download changes from somewhere? [21:34] I want to see what changes others have made [21:35] OH! Hey I can take the most recent from launchpad and place it on google docs... but I don't want to get too far away from our souce code management [21:36] ok [21:36] Here: https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AtkeORuPIMxsdGtWRXlvdHB4bktTNkF5LTNwWU5KQnc&hl=en_US&authkey=CNDambUJ [21:36] Thanks you [21:37] The Desktop tab. starting at row 22 [21:37] Ok [21:37] IF we know who is working the outline (one sub section per row), we can assign the name [21:37] I'll referee the work [21:38] Since we had problems, I picked up Editor role for this section [21:38] So are there any postitions open for me or not? [21:38] yes sir [21:38] rickfosb2: Yay which one? [21:39] rickfosb2, should lenses be added [21:39] Ben, Due to the time shift between us, I'd like for you to look at the managing windows section. We can work through that via email ; if you don't have bzr working. [21:39] New in Unity [21:39] Lenses are a specialized way of viewing your applications and documents. By default, there are two lenses already on the Unity launcher; they’re located near the bottom, just above the trash can. The first is for Applications, the other for Files & Folders. Clicking on one of them reveals that lens in the Dash. [21:40] Hannie: I think so, I was reading the emai [21:40] Shouldn't Lenses be referenced in the Understanding the Desk top Chapter? [21:40] rickfosb2: Ok thats fine [21:40] ChrisWoollard, you refer to line 24? [21:40] So what part windows? [21:41] yes [21:41] sorry but what do you mean windows part? [21:41] benonsoftware: you and i will work out what needs to be in that subsection; row 25 [21:42] I will need to coordinate 25 and 26 with c7p and hannie [21:42] rickfosb2: Ok good [21:42] daker, hi, how are you? [21:42] Chris: I believe you are correct in the placement of lenses [21:43] rickfosb2, c7p has already done the "Browsing..." bit. I lost my text after my computer crashed [21:44] ok; worried about you on that. I'll get text from him to 'merge'. [21:45] btw, I prefer to say "Nautilus file manager" instead of "Nautilus file browser" because nautilus is more than a browser [21:45] rickfosb2: I'm using bzr over a ssh but not thats not working :) [21:45] How much has not actually been commited yet? What is outstanding [21:46] Chriswoollard: most of what we are talking about today has not been committed. AND any screen shots needed to support this section have yet to be taken. [21:47] Line 30: workspaces are still used, applets work a bit different but should be described )imho) [21:47] godbyk has provided a short tutorial for me. So if hannie, benonsoftware, and the others can do a screenshot, I can help to get it built. [21:48] a screenshot of what? [21:48] If you need a 'visual'... like lenses, panel, .. etc [21:48] Wouldn't it be worth getting people to commit their work even if it is a work in progress. [21:49] I would agree wholeheartedly; I have accepted a txt file when a writer can't or has problems using bzr [21:49] by "committing" you mean send our work to rickfosb2, who is the editor? [21:50] or like hannie: crashes, rolls, and burns the drive [21:50] ha [21:50] I mean commiting the work into bzr so it can be seen / editted by others. [21:51] ChrisWoollard: agree..., when I get something, i pull, cmmit and push as soon as possible [21:51] Then things can be editted, Glossary items can be linked to. etc [21:51] can I push the whole chapter to bzr even if I only have added a small part [21:51] I would hope everyone is doing that [21:51] yes [21:51] Ok [21:51] hannie: yes [21:51] ah, I didn't know that [21:52] hannie: just keep your changes in context... that is, if you intend to delete text, do so, it will be removed from the chapter... if you leave a section above your change or below, it will not be affected [21:53] Do we know when all the unity changes will be done? [21:54] chriswoollard, and all: c7p has written a sub section on alternate apps (empathy vs ms outook, etc.) do we have a preference on where we want those applications to be discussed? [21:55] We did discuss that in another meeting, but I can't remember what we decided [21:55] Software Management maybe [21:56] I am not sure [21:56] ChrisWoollard: to your question on unity, do you see that as spread out among several of the rows? or adding a Unity subsection to address it as a topic beyond the prologue? [21:57] I think we were trying to address the individual 'how to's' with an eye to unity [21:57] I would see Unity as being covered in The Ubuntu Desktop -> Understanding the Desktop [21:58] Posibily renaming "Understanding the Desktop" to "Understanding the Unity Desktop" [21:58] Yes, so do I. In the Prologue we can refer to The Ubuntu Desktop chapter [21:59] anyone here gets a problem getting the manual from bzr? [21:59] Alarm bell: two minutes left ;) [21:59] 1 for me :) [21:59] "Understanding the Unity Desktop": I like it... but wil it be necessary in future version? [22:00] Benonsoftware: Shoot me an email and we will work the time zone problem [22:00] We'll get you started [22:00] rickfosb2: Ok email you now? [22:00] as soon as you have a moment; I'll respond shortly [22:00] Not sure. Only time will tell [22:01] Ok I'll email you in 5-10 min [22:01] ChrisWoollard: if ok, I'll update the chapter name then. Should help us to keep focused on the idea of the section [22:02] Understanding the Unity Desktop will be the new chapter name [22:02] We could always change it again in future releases. Unity was the big thing for this release though [22:02] agreed [22:02] rickfosb2, don't forget that manu people still use Gnome classic [22:02] *many [22:02] As soon as c7p gets back, I'll get him to push his changes and we can get caught up [22:03] hannie: agreed..., I need three desktops to keep up with my tinkering with gnome/unity [22:03] (never could get the hang of kde) [22:03] rickfosb2, have you already pushed the text I sent you (Nautilus) to the branch? [22:03] Maybe we should take the current "Understanding the Desktop" chapter and adapt it for the classic desktop. then maybe have it as an appendix [22:03] no; I have not seen it? or did I miss it? [22:04] * benonsoftware has sent the email [22:04] hannie: I 'll go look through my inbox: did you send to rick@ubuntu or rickfosb@gmail [22:04] ? [22:04] rickfosb2, you may have missed it. I sent it to you a few days ago, But I will push it myself as soon as I have installed Bazaar again [22:04] rickfosb2: the ubuntu-manual email [22:05] ok benonsoftware, thanks [22:05] Thats fine [22:05] Fosburgh Rick [22:05] hannie: I'll go back... I am sorry if I missed it!! If I find it, I'll let you know asap [22:05] perfect! [22:05] oki [22:06] sent on thursday [22:06] I'll get it up tonigh [22:06] *tonight [22:07] final alarm. any other questions? [22:07] (I still have some time left) [22:07] no questions from me at the moment [22:07] I might have some just wait a min [22:07] have a great evening hannie! [22:08] thanks, and see you all soon! [22:08] ok benonsoftware.. we''ll let the conversation die down abit [22:08] Ok [22:09] Anyone else? if not, thanks for joining! ChrisWoollard, I'll round up the missing people/pieces and get an update to this section. [22:10] Obviously, missed hannie's email to me.. probably sitting in a string between she, john and i [22:10] *me [22:10] :) [22:10] ok [22:10] Benonsoftware: Question? [22:11] I need to go. I have to get up early tomorrow to go to Oggcamp [22:11] rickfosb2: So when is the next release date for the manual? [22:11] See you all next time [22:11] chriswoollard: lucky you!!!! have fun there [22:11] ChrisWoollard: see you [22:11] whens the next meeting? [22:12] Sat/Sun probably near same time; I'll have a poll out tonight [22:12] Yah I might come again :) [22:12] rickfosb2: So when is the next release for ubuntu-manual? [22:12] Lovely. See you then [22:12] :) [22:12] Benonsoftware: Question? [22:13] rickfosb2: So when is the next release for ubuntu-manual? [22:14] hmm, thought we had the milestones in the spreadsheet... let me send you another link [22:14] I have the spreadsheet open [22:14] ben: this one might answer your bzr questions: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1LDAyOVGMOLvsMTef3dTE3zt9q-gQY_-NetMKfZ6yM2Q/edit?hl=en_US&authkey=CLynx-cH [22:15] now let me get the milestones [22:15] ok :) [22:15] https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ar0Z6vOO38EydERxaWhGTkU2NTVDU2pxYXNHWWR1MlE&hl=en_US&authkey=CNGSvgk [22:15] Milestones are in that sheet; I've not updated authors in there yet [22:16] Thats ok [22:16] godbyk has been quiet [22:16] So next month [22:16] yes [22:16] so the subsection that you will be working on' [22:17] Yes [22:18] managing windows: Take a look at the chapter as it exists today. you will need to figure out how to manage windows under unity. I haven't reread that section recently, but i suspect, [22:18] that you will need to discuss how to raise, lower, find, move from present desktop, any window in the unity world [22:18] i can help with that [22:19] Ok [22:19] its mostly a how to for the ubuntu novice; and in this case, any ubuntu user that might need some help finding things... [22:20] Nice :) [22:20] in my reply email, I'l post some text and page numbers that may help get you started... [22:20] Thanks [22:20] since we are all working in the same chapter. we just need to 'not' type in someone elses sub chapter [22:20] :) [22:20] How are the translations going? [22:20] :) [22:21] they can't start until we get this finished; I think hannie was wanting to get moving as we complete chapters... [22:21] :) [22:22] ben remind me; you are 1/2 way round the world right? [22:23] rickfosb2: Problery Melbourne, Australua [22:23] Australia* [22:23] yes sir; I can almost pronounce that word! (we've seen enought Australian actors here.) :) [22:24] ok; I just wanted to be sure i had the right Ben! [22:24] Ok if no other quesitons, I'll get busy on the reply to your email... see if that committing text document answers your bzr questions? [22:25] How to Commit Code by godbyk is a great place to learn... its the one i still use [22:26] I think that is the one you emailed me when I first emailed jobs@ubuntu-manual :) [22:26] benonsoftware: probably so; I try to ensure that everyone who will be writing has a copy of that and/or the styleguide [22:27] yeah [22:27] Ok; going to get busy on the reply; and find hannie's code to push... see you next week! (and look for my email with instructions) [22:28] See you :) [22:29] u2