/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/08/13/#ubuntu-za.txt

=== nlsthzn_ is now known as nlsthzn_work
WolfeyesMorning everyone06:46
nlsthzn_workAlo Wolfeyes :)07:06
WolfeyesHEYA nlsthzn_work 07:25
Wolfeyesoops07:25
nlsthzn_workoops?07:26
WolfeyesThe caps ^07:33
Kilosmorning superfly Wolfeyes 08:30
Kilosand hi to all you other peeps08:30
KilosMaaz, coffee on08:31
* Maaz flips the salt-timer08:31
MaazCoffee's ready for Kilos!08:35
KilosMaaz, ty08:35
MaazEnjoy Kilos08:35
superflymorning Kilos10:10
=== nlsthzn is now known as nlsthzn-work
* nlsthzn-work waves10:15
Kiloshiya nlsthzn-work 10:15
nlsthzn-workHey Uncle Kilos :)10:15
KilosMaaz, whats for 11:33
MaazKilos: Excuse me?11:33
Kiloslol11:33
KilosMaaz, sorry11:33
MaazKilos, don't do it again!11:33
KilosMaaz, ok11:33
MaazKilos: Sorry...11:33
inetprogood morning kilo[tab]12:13
inetprooh and hi everyone else12:13
* nlsthzn-work waves 12:13
sakhihi inetpro 12:15
inetproheh sakhi12:15
inetproand nlsthzn-work12:15
nlsthzn-workWhat's up?12:16
inetprohmm... was just typing what's up at #ubuntu-za today?12:16
nlsthzn-work:) so I guess we are both out of the loop :p12:18
inetpronlsthzn-work: I guess so, how do we get in it?12:18
nlsthzn-workI'm not sure... while it is only the two of us talking I think we are a bit stuffed :)12:19
inetpronlsthzn-work: I see you are back at work?12:19
inetproyou survived the zombie feeling of yedterday12:20
inetproyesterday*12:20
nlsthzn-worknot really... I basically didn't sleep a wink last night... today has been torture (but it is almost passed... one more hour to go) during Ramadan thet change the working hours, so day shift is one hour less and night shift one more... really glad about that today :D12:22
inetprolucky fish!12:23
inetpronlsthzn-work: I'm sure you'll be sleeping without problems tonight12:26
nlsthzn-workThat or sadly I won't be with you all tomorrow (having lost all my marbles and ran naked into the desert)12:27
nlsthzn-work... I suspect if I get to see the Boks play online they are sure to put me to sleep :/12:32
nlsthzn-workhttp://www.khanacademy.org/12:49
nlsthzn-workThat is pretty awesome!12:50
nlsthzn-worktime for home "YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!" .... ZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz13:09
Kilosgood evening fellas17:34
Kilosnaand inetpro apie nuvolari superfly 17:35
KilosMaaz, coffee on17:35
* Maaz puts the kettle on17:35
superflyevening Kilos17:35
superflyMaaz: coffee please17:35
Maazsuperfly: Done17:35
kbmonkeymorning Kilos and superfly 17:36
Kiloslol17:36
inetprogoeie more Kilos17:36
inetproand good evening to every other body17:37
superflyhiya kbmonkey17:38
superflyevening inetpro17:38
Kilosyo Ludo 17:38
superflyohi Ludo17:38
LudoHi Kilos and superfly17:38
inetproheh wb Ludo17:38
Ludohi inetpro thx17:38
Ludoshould be studying so i decided rather to visit you guys :D17:39
Kilosyay17:39
MaazCoffee's ready for Kilos and superfly!17:39
Kilosvery lonely here at times17:39
KilosMaaz, ank rusks17:39
MaazKilos: *blink*17:39
KilosMaaz, and rusks17:39
MaazI hid them away Kilos Pm me and I'll tell you where they are17:39
KilosMaaz, ty17:39
MaazEnjoy Kilos17:40
Ludoso seeing i was out of the loop for a long time what is za's general feeling on unity?17:40
superflyLudo: there are 3 camps17:40
superflyThose who love it17:40
superflythose who hate it17:40
superflyand those who use KDE :-P17:40
Ludoand those who do not care?17:40
Kiloslol17:40
Ludooh :P17:40
LudoI became a big Qt supporter but not so big into KDE17:41
Ludobut at the moment i'm on XP so i can not really comment on anything.17:42
superflyI can't stand Gnome17:42
Kiloseina17:42
Ludosuperfly xfce?17:42
* inetpro agrees with superfly17:42
superflyI mean, it's OK, but I find the lack of customisability really irritating17:42
Ludoi wish there was a xfce like project using Qt17:42
inetproqt = kde17:42
inetprokde = qt17:42
Ludosuperfly i find gnome very customisable(frek there goes the english again) but kde just have to much options for me.17:43
kbmonkeyI don't mind qt but so far have managed to keep qt, kde and gnome dependencies off my system17:44
kbmonkeyI find openbox very, very customizable, but you get your hands very dirty doing so! great fun17:45
Kiloslol , how you get your hands dirty onna pc17:45
LudoKilos easy open it up and look at all the dust in it ;) whenever i do some pc repairs my hands always gets dirty.17:46
kbmonkeyyup!17:46
Kilosoh i use a compressor for that17:47
kbmonkeykilos i once serviced a pc from a couple farmers in the midlands. some of them had hornets nests inside! can you believe it...17:47
* Ludo will in the near future(2 years *cough*cough*) use a unix based OS for his personal OS.17:47
Kiloslol17:47
Kilosshame Ludo  thats hard17:47
kbmonkeyyou should Ludo :)17:47
Kiloshey kbmonkey how did you get to be linux oriented17:48
Kilosif everything is ms at schools and varsities17:48
Ludokbmonkey i remember a story where a unix box was found at a car dealership with daga cement on it just working with ethernet and power.17:48
Ludokbmonkey next job i will insist on using the OS of my choice :P but at the moment one of the software packages is very Windows based and I do dual boot but never really into 17:50
LudoUbuntu :/ So rinstall windows xp every 6 months and relay heavily on portable apps!17:50
kbmonkeyI was a job monkey kilos so i could use what OS i wanted. i didnt have a pc for a long time, finally i bought one and put ubuntu on first thing17:50
kbmonkeymy job was programming application for windows pc's lol17:51
Kilosi often wonder what or how people get involved with linux17:51
Kilosah17:51
kbmonkeyi knew of linux about 2001 at a computer college where we worked on caldera and red hat17:52
Ludoone of my pet peeves is using the term linux if you refer to a whole OS17:52
KilosLudo, you lucky its only every 6 months17:52
kbmonkeythat's how i found out, because didnt have internet to discover all these things :)17:52
kbmonkeywhat do you mean Ludo?17:53
Kilossorry Ludo in my case ubuntu17:53
kbmonkeylike, "I am a Linux!"17:53
* Kilos loves ubuntu, and gnome17:53
LudoKilos actually when ever i feel my windows box is slow or comprimised. But since i started using portable apps and watch what i install the box is going on ok... not bad for software that is 10 years old +!17:53
Kiloslol like mine, early p417:54
Kilosstarted onna p3  with 8.0417:54
Ludokbmonkey linux is a kernel not a operating system. So the open source crowd decided lets brand all linux based operating systems as linux for marketing.17:55
Ludoand i don't like that.17:56
LudoRed hat and Ubuntu is different operating systems just based on the same tech...17:56
Ludoanybody here tried the debian/hurd distro?17:56
kbmonkeyoh, yes, they are different flavored linux distros :)17:57
kbmonkeyhurd is GNU, not debian17:57
kbmonkeythat's richard stallmans baby :)17:57
Ludokbmonkey http://www.debian.org/ports/hurd/17:57
kbmonkeyi'd love to try it, need to wait to get it17:58
kbmonkeywhat? debian ported to hurd? wow! thanks Ludo!17:58
* Ludo still wants a minux 3 distro :D17:58
Ludoyea saw it on reddit a week or two ago, its finally production ready or something like that.17:59
Ludokbmonkey you migh find it interesting that debian can also run on freebsd17:59
Ludoinstead of using the linux kernel17:59
* inetpro settled on kubuntu since it's also based on debian18:00
kbmonkeyKilos if you are confused, the linux kernel is the brains of all distros. hurd and freebsd are just different kernels, different brains if you will :)18:00
Kilosah ty kbmonkey 18:01
Ludoinetpro i wonder how far it have strayed from debian... for inovation and stuff18:01
kbmonkeythat was some fine tea18:04
kbmonkeyhow is lynx going Kilos ?18:04
Kilosdidnt do much today but after last night i understand it better ty18:04
Kilosthe pro quite clevver at times18:05
Kilosi am still trying to find where that recovery goodie is hihing18:05
kbmonkeythat grub recovery thingy?18:05
Ludolynx the web browser?18:06
Kilosyeah but i dont think it is in grub because i am sure it fixes lots18:06
kbmonkeyyes Ludo we are learning to use lynx18:06
Kiloslike it fixed ian dpkg yesterday18:06
Ludofor that emergency google session when x11 dies on you ;)18:06
kbmonkeyhe he18:07
kbmonkeyi tried irssi and centerim too for cli irc18:07
Kiloskbmonkey, what about weechat18:07
* Ludo still want to spend a lot of time learning vim18:07
Kilosmaia uses it all the time18:08
Ludobut not on a windows box because before i can stop my hands i have opened notepad++ instead of gvim :P18:08
Kilosi tried it but xchat suits me better18:08
kbmonkeygedit or vi18:08
KilosLudo, YOU CAN GET XCHAT ON WONDOWS TOO18:08
Kilossorry18:08
Kilostypo18:08
kbmonkeyi navigate my windows with vi-luike keys, and web browser too, and music player too, lol18:09
kbmonkeyKilos you do, but they charge for it18:09
Kilosno18:09
LudoKilos yip i know what way back when the world was good i bought mirc licence18:09
kbmonkeythe linux version is free. he he18:09
KilosMaaz, google xchat for win xp18:09
MaazKilos: "XChat for Windows" http://xchat.org/windows/ :: "xchat.org • View topic - XChat 2.0.9 WinXP Font Issue" http://forum.xchat.org/viewtopic.php?t=25 :: "XCHAT FAQ" http://xchat.org/faq/ :: "X-Chat 2 for Windows" http://www.silverex.org/ :: "Download - X-Chat 2 for Windows" http://www.silverex.org/download/ :: "XChat - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XChat :: "Windows XP Tips - Programs - XChat‏ - YouT18:09
kbmonkeybut you get other chat irc chat clients that are free too 18:09
inetproLudo: as long as sabdfl and others are involved with ubuntu it will stay very close to debian18:09
Ludokbmonkey you get a free windows version aswell compiled by some hackers with extra bot "code" int it ;)18:09
Kilosone of those up there work18:10
kbmonkeyyou do Ludo its called YChat iirc ;) but its not the official one18:10
Ludohttp://www.silverex.org/download/18:10
Ludoinetpro cool18:10
kbmonkeyyou can irc with telnet too but thats a bit much :p18:10
* Ludo has a irc client he have written himself some years ago... *gulp* like 10 years ago O_o i'm getting old!18:11
Kiloslol18:11
kbmonkeythat is cool Ludo! 18:12
Kilosi like xchat. it is very user friendly18:12
kbmonkeyi wrote an xmpp one :p18:12
Ludobut i like that one bash quote. IRC is like notepad only multiplayer18:12
kbmonkeyha ha! it is!18:12
kbmonkeywithout undo or erase18:12
Ludokbmonkey you mean *cough* jabber18:12
kbmonkey:p18:12
Ludoyou ever played around with jingle?18:13
kbmonkeynope18:13
Ludoif google wave evertook of it would have put xmpp on the map. now i don't feel like xmpp is that big.18:13
Ludoi only know about google talk and mxit using it for anything interesting in my life.18:14
kbmonkeyits a great protocol IMHO, I dont think it will disappear too soon18:14
inetproyikes18:14
Ludokbmonkey i also don't think it will ever disappear but it is a bit heavy with a lot of over head.18:14
Ludoinetpro ?18:15
inetproxmpp is what keeps most IM software afloat18:15
inetprothese days*18:15
Ludobut thinking of it facebook also uses xmpp if i remember correctly.18:15
inetproexactly18:15
Ludoinetpro the only real big guys i know that uses it is google(and maybe fb now) msn and skype(other to big players) all use their own protocal18:16
Ludosorry for all my mistakes18:16
inetproLudo: I bet that even BBM is based on it18:16
inetproand even whatsapp and others18:17
inetprofloss no no longer be ignored18:17
kbmonkeygood point inetpro! they probably do18:18
inetprothe sad part is that big corporates are still finding ways to hide how they integrate it18:18
kbmonkeyyes google wave is great, a shame half the world doesn't have the bandwidth for it18:18
inetproa lot of the functionality of wave has been built into G+18:19
Ludoinetpro I'm pretty sure BBM uses it own protocol: http://www.quora.com/What-is-the-protocol-for-BlackBerry-Messenger18:20
Ludoinetpro it also depends on the license to force corporates to share their secrets or not, i'm not a big fan of the gpl but the lgpl makes a lot of more sense for me and the whole gpl v3 thing is very interesting.18:22
inetproLudo: hmm, that article still doesn't explain a lot18:22
kbmonkeyChuck Norris protocol design method has no status, requests or responses, only commands18:24
inetprokbmonkey: who is Chuck Norris?18:25
Kiloshehe18:25
Ludotrue but to assume bbm is based on xmpp is a bad assumption. the article just say its a proprietary protocol18:25
Ludoone that helps roits :P18:25
inetproLudo: actually I was hoping somebody would come with more info :-)18:25
* inetpro has been wondering about what they use18:26
inetproroits?18:26
Ludoriots* sorry and i'm talking about the england riots18:27
inetproahh :-)18:27
inetproKilos: please define assumption for us18:27
Ludoinetpro all i know is that the "free internet" and bbm is a great marketing move.18:27
Kiloslol18:27
* inetpro didn't think it had anything to do with riots 18:28
Kiloshe assumed his pants were down and they werent18:28
inetproeish18:28
inetpronot that one18:29
Kilosthe act of taking for granted18:29
KilosMaaz, define assumption18:29
MaazKilos: Assumption \As*sump"tion\ (?; 215), n. [OE. assumpcioun a taking up into heaven, L. assumptio a taking, fr. assumere: cf. F. assomption. See {Assume}.] 1. The act of assuming, or taking to or upon one's self; the act of taking up or adopting. [1913 Webster]  The assumption of authority.          --Whewell. [1913 Webster]  2. The act of taking for granted, or supposing a thing without proof; supposition; unwarrantable claim. [1913 Web18:29
inetpro“When you assume, you make an ass out of u and me.” ~ Oscar Wilde18:31
Ludo*grin*18:31
inetpro“But when assumptions are sometimes true. Then you're the ass, not me. ” ~ Bryan Yeo18:31
inetpro:-)18:31
Kiloslol18:32
inetprook, ok, enough joking around18:33
inetprowhat was the topic?18:33
Ludoinetpro it reminds me of another quote "the great thing about standards is that there are so many to choose from"18:33
Ludoinetpro xmpp and who uses it.18:34
inetproLudo: is it important?18:35
Kiloshey fellas, i go sleep now. you all be good. and sleep tight18:36
Ludodepends who you are, but i don't think it is for any body here.18:37
Ludognight Kilos18:37
inetproKilos: good night18:37
Ludoinetpro what would you rather talk about?18:37
inetprohmm... 18:38
inetproI don't really mind the topic18:38
* inetpro is having a lazy Saturday evening18:38
Ludowell i'm doing my unisa assignment, so i just want something interesting to talk about.18:39
inetproLudo: what is the assignment about?18:40
LudoHuman-computer interaction18:41
inetproahh18:41
inetprosounds interesting18:41
Ludoand seeing i have been working in the industry for 5 years+ now and been and multiple companies i wonder if anybody in south africa really cares about it.18:42
inetproLudo: btw, the XMPP Standards Foundation is at http://xmpp.org/ with lot of interesting info there18:42
LudoIts more something the R&D department at Apple will care about18:42
inetproLudo: I disagree18:43
Ludoinetpro thanks i looked at it very activly a couple of years ago but like a said... no one hear will really be interested in it.18:43
Ludoinetpro why? please share!18:43
inetproI think it's time that we wake up and make it our own problem to think about18:43
inetprodon't wait for others to start innovating18:43
Ludoinetpro i will not disagree on that but i don't know of a RSA company that will spend money on it. Ok i have spent my companies time ons some UI elements but nothing at the level the text book assume one needs to spend time on it.18:44
inetprosure thing, it's a sad state of affairs but we need to turn that around18:45
Ludoto be honest i see a very little time being spent on tried and tested methodologies for application development. But maybe it is just me.18:45
inetprowith the floss philosophy behind us anybody can get involved at any level18:46
inetprono matter where you are and no matter who you are18:46
Ludoinetpro i was at JSinSA and there was some companies that looked like they are more focused on text book stuff.18:46
inetproJSinSA?18:47
LudoJavascript in South Africa: http://www.jsinsa.com/jsinsa/index.aspx18:47
kbmonkeycheers folks im going out, have fun 18:47
inetprokbmonkey: have a good night18:48
Ludonight kbmonkey18:48
kbmonkeyyou too inetpro and Ludo18:48
Ludoinetpro but maybe I'm also restricting myself by only wanting to work in the 012 area18:48
inetproLudo: I'd say there is enough scope for anybody who wants to make a difference to get involved no matter where you are18:49
inetproit's just easier said than done18:50
Ludoinetpro agreed but I have some ideas I'm throwing around but its hard with a fulltime job, part time studies etc.18:51
inetprothe sad part is that companies in this country are not very helpful yet18:51
* Ludo quickly google for ocr software18:52
inetprothey are generally still very unaware of the modern way of doing things and try to re-invent the wheel way to often18:52
Ludoinetpro i really agree on the whole re-invent of the wheel thing!18:54
Ludobut that is a south african mentality(or maybe even human) I can see it in alot of groups not just tech18:55
inetproIMHO most businesses out there should have their own internal IT folk on a payroll18:59
inetpro While not every company would be able to keep everyone busy at all times they should allow their IT gurus to take part in FLOSS projects outside of the company in a transparent way and let them grow their own knowledge and help grow other's knowledge around them19:01
Ludoinetpro I'm one of those internal IT folks ;)19:02
LudoAnd to be honest I'm to busy to work on FLOSS projects on company time.19:02
LudoBut I activly try to make FLOSS software part of my env.19:02
Ludobut atlast i joined the company a year to late and decision was made on the tech to use.19:03
Ludoand now we are feeling the pain.19:03
inetproeish19:04
Ludobut to be honest other tech choices like perl and erlang was also made and that did not turn out to great.19:04
Ludocoming to think of it we work with a lot of FLOSS products I'm just on the wrong team :P19:05
LudoThe biggest thing is business looks at some key people to make their IT dicussion and the story always goes nobody have ever been fired for choosing Oracle, Microsoft etc. 19:07
inetprohaha19:09
inetprothat's very easy to say that19:09
Ludowell do you disagree?19:10
inetproway to many peeps are making uninformed decisions in the first place19:11
inetproand it is up to you and me to put that right19:11
inetproa lot of decisions are made based on clever marketing and powerful branding 19:12
inetprorather than basing decision on what the business needs 19:13
Ludoagreed. But how do you tell a company trust me, rather then organization x with their 1000 employees and big clients?19:14
Ludofor me to make decission i need to know of companies or people that can pick up where I have left if a bus hits me tonight19:14
Ludofor example show me a company in gauteng that will support python development?19:15
inetproI'm sure they are around somewhere we just don't know about them19:16
Ludoinetpro if you look on the gpugsa group you will see i'm not alone in search of a company that can do that.19:18
inetprogpugsa?19:18
inetproahh Gauteng Python User Group19:20
Ludoyip19:20
inetprothat is sad19:20
Ludothat is reality ;)19:20
inetprohow long has gpugsa been around?19:21
Ludobut don't let my negative opinion get you under. I personally have some plans and goals.19:21
Ludoanother nice quote: "life is what happens while we are making plans"19:21
inetpro:-)19:22
inetproLudo: make no mistake I share a lot of your sentiments but we can not keep doing the same things and expect to get different results , so we will need your plans19:26
Ludomaybe a freelance gauteng job board will be a good project. 19:27
inetprooh and Ludo don't fall for the argument that company x with 1000 employees can ever walk into your business and continue where you left off19:28
inetprolife is not that simple19:28
Ludoinetpro i know we have a big contract with company x for support and it is worth nothing in my opinion19:28
Ludobut it gives management some kind of "comfort"19:29
Ludoinetpro "life is not that simple" meaning?19:29
inetprosure and I know some peeps who love that kind of thinking myself19:29
inetproLudo: every business is unique19:30
inetproand companies should invest in their people rather than in products19:30
inetproproducts change all the time19:31
Ludoinvesting in your people instead of products is a whole other ball game then just tech.19:32
Ludoand by investing what do you mean: salary, benefits, training, working env, opertunities?19:33
inetpropeople will find solutions if you invest in them19:33
inetproLudo: exactly19:33
Ludobecause if you mean training our company does that, but then you sign yourself to the company for x amount of time. yes you can buy yourself out. but at my level i pay for my studies myself.19:34
inetproLudo: that is called bribery in my eyes19:34
Ludosalary is normally decided by the board(or in my case manager and the board needs to aprove it) if I jump ship now I will get a pay increase of note and my current company can not compete because the board does not allow it.19:35
inetprowhile I understand that companies want return on investment there's a fine line that companies should not step over19:35
Ludoso managers rather makes plans with contracts and big cash upfront(easier to negatiote with the board then a big salary increase) and then you sign yourself away for a year or to aswell. but there is risk for the employee and employer in this scenario aswell.19:37
Ludofor work env i would love to work from home but i need to do support for in house software aswell.19:37
Ludoso what investments will you like companies to make?19:37
inetprohmm... 19:38
Ludoso for example we are ineed of a developer...19:40
inetproLudo: you can either light a fire underneath people or you can light a fire within them19:40
Ludoand have activly been interviewing and searching for someone. We actually employed someone last year and the person was not capable to understand what we want from him. but he was a good guy.19:41
LudoSo we are two devs using this "sucky"(in my opinion) tech but we need another guy and actually a dba aswell.19:41
inetprowell I guess it is easier said than done19:42
LudoI'm trying to convince management to employ two juniors and we will try to teach them the skills they need. But after one year they will jump because they now have experience.19:43
inetprothat argument is wrong19:43
Ludoso actually when we employ them we already need to think of a "plan" on how we will give them increases to keep them with us.19:43
inetproyou should be happy when people jump because of new experience that they gained19:43
Ludo(if they are capable)19:43
Ludoinetpro I agree but the company that spent a lot of money to train them and get them up to speed still needs people to maintain their system.19:44
inetproyou will find that many people will rather stay if you allow them to grow and gain experience 19:45
Ludoagreed.19:45
inetproI think IT folk are generally stretched beyond a healthy state19:46
Ludobut the business needs old system x y and z up and running and that is "boring" in geek terms so how do they keep people to maintain that systems and still grow and gain experience?19:46
Ludo:)19:46
inetprowe need more people to cover for each other in different areas19:47
inetprorather than depending on single individuals to know it all19:47
inetprowhile saying that I know it is not easy and many IT guys that I know thrive on their own19:48
inetproor rather many of them find it very difficult to work in a team19:48
Ludoinetpro the problem is not always even on the IT side but one the IT people to know the business problems and that is hard, for most IT guys.19:48
inetprotrue19:49
inetprothat is why the company x solution can not work19:49
inetprothey generally don't care about your business, they care about your money19:50
LudoWell i sit with a problem where we have a arcitect that is the dream keeper, he is also very involved in the tech we use but also don't want to be to involved in the internals(See the problem here). He is a very smart guy and have a good understanding of tech, but also a big crittic of the tech industry.19:51
Ludoinetpro and to be honnest how am i different?19:51
inetpro?19:51
Ludo<inetpro> they generally don't care about your business, they care about your money19:51
inetproLudo: are you just in it for the money?19:52
Ludoi care about my salary, yes because i'm more on the frontline of the business to make my life simpler and to increase my salary(bonus) i'm more interested in the business but I learned to program because I wanted to write games. Now i'm writing ERP systems.19:53
inetprolife is not just about money19:54
Ludoinetpro to say yes i would just be lying. But to be honest the business also just see me as a tool. I joined a R&D department with promises of perl and python and unix systems. I'm now stuck with a sucky windows platform and visual programming langauge i personally hate.19:54
inetprothat is just sad19:55
Ludoand I did raise this concerns with my managers and they understand my problem, but I must also understand their problem. They have a big system the whole company uses that someone needs to maintain and undestand... and I'm one of he unlucky guys ;)19:56
Ludoand don't get me wrong the first year on the system was interesting... but the last 8 months not so much :P19:56
inetproeish19:56
Ludoand its unfair but with my very vocal ways have i been branded a bit as a complainer... which is not right but also not wrong. I should rather come up with solutions.19:58
inetproLudo: get another hobby19:58
Ludoand trust me I'm activly trying.19:58
Ludoinetpro *grin* you just reminded me of a quote my dad use to share...19:58
Ludo"If you want to be happy with your life make your hobby your job" I would agree with it but only with one change: "Don't make your only hobby your job"!19:59
inetprosometimes you just have to be patient19:59
Ludoinetpro tech is who and what I am... that makes me good at my job :)19:59
inetproLudo: tech is not everything 20:00
Ludoor so I have been told, I personally feel very stupid!20:00
Ludoyou can see it in my use of language :P20:00
Ludoinetpro I agree and I try to maintain a active social life and do other stuff.20:02
inetproLudo: it's very good to be passionate about your job but sometimes you just need to step outside of your comfort zone20:02
Ludoinetpro for example?20:02
inetproget involved in something else20:03
Ludoinetpro that takes time... time i don't have with studies and work.20:04
inetprodon't worry, you'll get there20:04
Ludoyou must understand i'm sitting at home on a saterday night complaining to you and doing a assignment while friends are out at news cafe.20:05
LudoBecause this thing should be done by monday with 2 other assignments follwing him next monday and all I rather want to do is learn more about the google closure library!20:06
inetprohah, forget about what others do, it's not really important20:06
Ludooh and go out with my friends :P20:06
* inetpro should stop wasting Ludo's time20:07
Ludono! I enjoy the conversastion!20:07
Ludobtw do you think it is unrealistic to insist on the operating system I use at my job?20:08
* Ludo starts a new topic20:08
inetproLudo: that might be a tough one20:08
Ludobecause I have been acticly trying to use ubuntu as my OS of choice since 2008 and I have been stucked on windows for the last 3 years20:09
Ludo*activly20:09
inetprotry getting a 2nd system on which you can proove that you can do better while using it20:10
inetproor on which you can proove that you can continue doing what you do while you can also do more 20:10
* Ludoza oops! memo to self: do not touch the wifi button.20:11
inetprohmm, did we loose Ludo somewhere?20:11
inetproLudo, Ludoza: you still here?20:12
Ludozainetpro yip your last msg was "<inetpro> try getting a 2nd system on which you can proove that you can do better while using it"20:13
inetproor on which you can proove that you can continue doing what you do while you can also do more 20:13
Ludozainetpro at my current position the biggest problem is that ugly dev env using a vpl based on .net the ide is a resource hog and needs the latest and greatest .net/windows env.20:14
inetproLudoza: you can really do everything from within Ubuntu or most other linux distro20:14
Ludozaand by resource hog I'm talking about 2 gig memory usage.20:14
Ludoza+20:15
Ludozai have also activly tried to get the ide running in wine20:15
inetproLudoza: you might even find that it can be faster in a terminal session, have you tried?20:15
* Ludoza loves terminal sessions20:15
Ludozaif it can not be done in a command prompt it should not be available in a UI20:15
inetprohave you tried it in a rdesktop session yet?20:16
Ludozammm that is maybe not a bad idea... install a windows box on our dev vmware server and use that as my env...20:17
inetproyep20:17
Ludozawill need to bribe some admins but that might just work20:17
Ludozabut the biggest argument is why would I want to do that?20:18
* inetpro loves rdesktop20:18
Ludozawhy don't I just use windows.20:18
Ludozaand thinking of it now because the ide is based on .net it uses the new gfx engine of .net not the old win32 stuff and that renders badly on a remote dekstop session. but I will have a look again.20:19
Ludozabecause the new .net gfx stuff is directx hardware accelerated20:20
inetproeish, what a bad idea20:20
Ludozaooh btw did anybody have a look at the new open gl specs?20:20
inetproLudoza: have you noticed that MS is moving towards full HTML 5 on the desktop?20:22
Ludozayip some big just guy last year even said they are dropping silverlight and will be working to HTML 5 more.20:23
Ludozaand a lot fo developers very unhappy because people felt it might be the next vb620:24
inetproyep20:24
Ludozabut they still have a roadmap set for silverlight and the tech surouding it(it is the same tech i'm calling the new gfx engine :P)20:24
inetprohmm...20:25
LudozaWPF there is the correct name20:25
inetproWell like someone wrote, the company has never exactly been good at picking a direction for its development strategy and sticking with it.20:27
Ludozahttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Presentation_Foundation20:27
Ludozainetpro but ms is focusing a lot on XAML20:29
Ludozai don't think the whole html 5 promise will become true also with silverlight 5 they will support 3d undermining the whole webgl efforts. There also a lot fo taks where Microsoft and Adobe was very unhelpful in the drafting of html 5 etc, and a lot of poeple said it was delay tactics for business pruposes.20:31
inetprowell, I'll rather focus on a stable *nix environment than getting involved in to much FUD20:32
Ludozabut I don't think microsoft is the evil Embrace, extend and extinguish of the 90 but one must remember they are a corp and like any business they want to make profit. They are in it for the money.20:33
Ludozaand unlike you and me they believe money is everything ;)20:33
inetprosure20:33
Ludozawell with the chrome and firefox market share on the web open standards must just keep on swimming20:34
inetprodon't worry, we'll keep fighting the war :-)20:34
Ludozaand the ie team even sends mozilla cakes: http://techie-buzz.com/tech-news/ie-team-sends-mozilla-a-cake-again-for-firefox-5-launch.html20:35
inetproand the big war is all about giving the small player a chance in the market20:35
Ludozatalking about cake... when is the next ubuntu cake :P20:35
inetprohah20:35
inetproI wonder20:35
Ludozayou must remember I forgot how you look but I know i must link the name inetpro to ubuntu cake! I loved it !20:36
inetpro:-)20:36
Ludozait looks to me if I quickly google for it I need to go to cape town for cake... i never actually been in cape town the closes I have been is george.20:37
inetproI'll have to see how things go20:37
inetprowould be nice if we could get a large team in Pretoria for a change20:38
Ludozai was at a release party last year somewhere still at the karoo cafe, but seeing i'm not activly using ubuntu a lost a bit of touch.20:38
inetproI guess we'll have to work on that20:39
superflyyeesh, you guys are chatting tonight20:40
inetprosuperfly: heh20:40
* superfly is a bit busy with things20:41
Ludozayea superfly my plan is to join the channel chat for one whole night and then do it again in 6 months :P20:41
inetprosuperfly: I was hoping that you would step in and help me out here20:41
Ludozaglug is dead as always!20:42
superflyinetpro: I haven't even had time to read all the backlog!20:42
Ludozasuperfly don't worry rather just start with a new topic!20:43
inetproLudoza: don't you have some assignment to finish?20:43
Ludozamaybe talk about some pipe dream how we can get people involved etc, like using the khan acamdy20:43
Ludoza*acadamy20:43
Ludozaset it up on these 30 2.4 ghz celeron machines i have in my garage and deliver it to communities that needs it.20:44
LudozaEduction is key for South Africa.20:44
Ludozaor maybe we should capaign to Unisa and other varsities rather to teach students Libra Office instead of MS Office 200720:47
inetproLudoza: now that would be cool if you could pull that off20:50
inetprobut it's LibreOffice not Libra Office20:51
Ludozawell by the looks of it unisa teaches the poor kids(and adults) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Computer_Driving_Licence20:53
Ludozaits sort of compulsory and by the looks of it the course is vendor neutral20:53
Ludozathere is just not a lot of course ware using alternative systems20:53
Ludozabut there might be hope: http://www.icdl.org.za/products_detail.php?id=6&PHPSESSID=ubu69pnfotj76ecs6vsogfabm120:54
inetprohmm... I wonder20:56
inetproif they start talking about Open Office rather than OpenOffice.org and or LibreOffice I loose all hope20:57
LudozaSo my SO is doing the module this year will ask her for her email addresses and then maybe draft something to send to them.20:57
Ludozaand then try to get the rest of ubuntu-za behind it.20:58
Ludozainetpro the big thing is it takes years for the course ware to "upgrade" get revised. My SO did Office 2007 this year20:58
Ludozaso OOo is already a step in the right direction.20:59
inetproSO?20:59
Ludozasignificant other20:59
inetproahh20:59
Ludozajust think how fun it would be to have this channel flooded with students wanting help with their homework ;)21:00
Ludozayou and superfly will have your handsful!21:01
* superfly already has his hands full with a 2 year old21:02
* inetpro is falling asleep21:02
Ludozainetpro go to bed then I can finish my last to question21:03
Ludoza*s21:03
inetproLudoza: you better come back more often than just every 6 months21:03
inetprowas fun chatting 21:04
Ludozathen i will rework my plagiarism tomorrow and submit it!21:04
Ludozainetpro yip thanks for the company21:04
inetprogood night21:05
Ludozagn21:05
Ludozaso superfly what py web framework have you been exploring recently?21:05
superflyPyramid21:05
* Ludoza loves the pyramid documenation21:06
Ludozabut i still need to use it for something "big" most of my stuff is a bottle prototype and before I can stop it its in production somewhere :/21:06
Ludozahave you ever looked a bottle.py?21:07
Ludozathe only true micro web framework... don't even start with flask!21:07
superflyLudoza: but with a micro web framework you have to do a lot of stuff yourself that is already built into the "bigger" frameworks21:53
superflyand Pyramid is only slightly heavier than bottle21:53
superflyfp22:13

Generated by irclog2html.py 2.7 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!