| Riddell | pathogenic: Bazaar rocks of course | 00:04 |
|---|---|---|
| pathogenic | is it distributed? | 00:04 |
| Riddell | Bazaar users are better looking and more attractive to the opposite sex than git or Mercurial users | 00:04 |
| Riddell | yes it's distributed, but you can also do a checkout similar to subversion so you have a choice of workflows | 00:04 |
| pathogenic | do they drive Ferraris too? | 00:07 |
| fullermd | I hope not. It's hard to toss a couch in the back of a Ferrari... | 00:08 |
| Riddell | no, we're environmentally friendly and cycle | 00:08 |
| pathogenic | so what can i do in bzr that i can't in hg? | 00:11 |
| pathogenic | what are bzr braches like? | 00:11 |
| pathogenic | branches | 00:13 |
| pathogenic | ? | 00:19 |
| pathogenic | can you use git-diff format in bzr? | 00:21 |
| pathogenic | hello? | 00:30 |
| pathogenic | are you folks scared to answer? | 00:33 |
| fullermd | I don't know of any concise answer to that sort of question, and work doesn't really leave me time for open-ended discussions... | 00:41 |
| pathogenic | translation: i'm afraid to answer, because any answer involves either lying or pointing out how hg is actually better | 00:43 |
| fullermd | Oh darn, you broke the code. | 00:43 |
| jimis | pathogenic: google is your friend | 00:43 |
| jimis | pathogenic: but since you won't, here is the result: http://doc.bazaar.canonical.com/migration/en/why-switch-to-bazaar.html | 00:44 |
| pathogenic | i already read that, jimism | 00:44 |
| jimis | pathogenic: do your homework, try various things, and come ask us specific technical questions | 00:44 |
| jimis | pathogenic: do you really expect us to write an essay and list all reasons we prefer bazaar? | 00:45 |
| pathogenic | i asked some questions | 00:46 |
| pathogenic | it's a chat room | 00:46 |
| pathogenic | jimis: if someone came into #mercurial, i could tell them all about it | 00:46 |
| pathogenic | i wouldn't be some stuck-up twat | 00:46 |
| bignose | pathogenic: you started out hostile, please don't demand answers to loaded questions. | 00:47 |
| pathogenic | i guess you folks are clueless | 00:48 |
| bignose | yep, that must be it. you'd better find some people more suited to your needs. | 00:48 |
| pathogenic | you've probably never even tried hg | 00:48 |
| bignose | pathogenic: see? you don't need us, you already know everything you need to know. | 00:49 |
| jimis | I agree | 00:49 |
| jimis | I think hg is better suited to your needs, pathogenic | 00:49 |
| jimis | now go | 00:49 |
| jimis | :-) | 00:49 |
| pathogenic | make me | 00:49 |
| bignose | ah, so you're not here for information, buit to squat | 00:49 |
| pathogenic | you go | 00:50 |
| pathogenic | bignose: leave | 00:50 |
| jimis | Cool, I needed a break from work | 00:50 |
| pathogenic | hg has far more users anyway | 00:50 |
| pathogenic | bzr has little support on various sites | 00:50 |
| aminpy | http://dpaste.com/593859/plain/ <- how can I fix this? | 06:06 |
| bignose | aminpy: the informative part is “[Errno 111] Connection refusedxmlrpc.launchpad.net:443” | 06:56 |
| bignose | aminpy: the informative part is “[Errno 111] Connection refused” while it tried to connect to ‘xmlrpc.launchpad.net:443’ | 06:56 |
| bignose | aminpy: so you'd best see why that connection is refused. either that host, or something between you and the host, is refusing that connection. | 06:56 |
| bignose | I have no trouble establishing that connection directly (using ‘telnet xmlrpc.launchpad.net 443’) | 06:57 |
| cheater_ | hey guys | 10:29 |
| cheater_ | if i have an up to date checkout of a bzr repo, and no one's working in branches or anything like that, then i can use that checkout to re-create the repo, right? | 10:29 |
| bignose | cheater_: you don't have a checkout of a repo | 10:30 |
| bignose | cheater_: you have a branch | 10:30 |
| cheater_ | ok | 10:30 |
| bignose | cheater_: the concepts ‘repository’, ‘branch’, ‘tree’ are all distinct in Bazaar | 10:30 |
| bignose | cheater_: am I telling you something new to you? | 10:30 |
| cheater_ | yes | 10:30 |
| bignose | okay. a repository stores revision data | 10:31 |
| bignose | a branch is a record of the distinct line of development; it refers to revisions, so is specific to a repository | 10:32 |
| bignose | a tree is the state of files that result from applying all the revisions of a branch | 10:32 |
| cheater_ | gotcha | 10:32 |
| bignose | cheater_: so does that help you to re-phrase your question? | 10:32 |
| cheater_ | not necessarily. i have a bzr repo on a server, and i did bzr co on my local computer. i'm wondering if i can just get rid of the server it's on, or if i need to back up the repository. | 10:33 |
| bignose | cheater_: if you actually have the repository locally, you have all the data you need | 10:34 |
| cheater_ | i don't know. do i have the repository locally? | 10:34 |
| cheater_ | how can i check? | 10:35 |
| bignose | cheater_: one way to tell is to branch from there to somewhere else (make sure it's in a separate location so you're not accidentally using the same repository) | 10:35 |
| cheater_ | how would i do that? | 10:35 |
| bignose | cheater_: another way is to use ‘bzr info’ on the branch | 10:35 |
| bignose | cheater_: which will tell you what kind of branch it is, and where its repository lies | 10:35 |
| AuroraBorealis | if you only have one branch then doing a bzr branch on that will mirror it. but if you have more you would have ot branch all of them | 10:35 |
| cheater_ | no i just have the, uh, "default" branch or something like that. | 10:36 |
| cheater_ | sorry, i'm not too versed in the bzr data structure. | 10:36 |
| bignose | cheater_: it's okay, you don't need to know much of the structure | 10:37 |
| bignose | (one of the key advantages of Bazaar in my opinion) | 10:37 |
| AuroraBorealis | if you just have one branch then doing a bzr branch will mirror it. | 10:37 |
| cheater_ | bzr info on my local computer says: checkout of branch: bzr+ssh://login@server.com/srv/bzr/project/ | 10:37 |
| bignose | but the flexibility of Bazaar does unfortunately require knowing that those separate concepts are indeed distinct | 10:37 |
| bignose | cheater_: that means the repository to which you commit is at that location | 10:37 |
| AuroraBorealis | you need to branch it, not do a checkout | 10:37 |
| bignose | cheater_: the purpose of a checkout is to emulate the centralised workflow | 10:38 |
| cheater_ | ok. | 10:38 |
| cheater_ | perfect, let me do a branch. | 10:38 |
| bignose | cheater_: if you want to be actually distributed-only, don't use checkout | 10:38 |
| cheater_ | well.. in fact it's only just me using this. | 10:39 |
| cheater_ | i'm a one-man act :) | 10:39 |
| bignose | cheater_: that's fine, I use both distributed and centralised on branches which are just me | 10:39 |
| bignose | cheater_: it's great to have the opiton of both, and even both at the same time | 10:39 |
| cheater_ | yeah | 10:40 |
| cheater_ | i've never *really* used bzr in distributed mode.. | 10:40 |
| bignose | you don't need multi-person to get great benefit from distributed VCS | 10:40 |
| bignose | nor centralised, I guess | 10:40 |
| cheater_ | i've used hg once branching out something and then using bitbucket's pull request feature | 10:40 |
| cheater_ | but they handle all of that through a web gui | 10:40 |
| cheater_ | so now i gotta learn how to do it per hand in bzr :) | 10:41 |
| cheater_ | per/by | 10:41 |
| bignose | cheater_: you just ‘bzr branch’ without making it a checkout, without making it bound, without making it lightweight... basically just the default :-) | 10:41 |
| cheater_ | yeah, doing that | 10:41 |
| cheater_ | but let's say i did some work on the branch, how do i merge it back into the main repo? | 10:42 |
| cheater_ | something like bzr push, right? | 10:42 |
| cheater_ | just guessing here | 10:42 |
| bignose | Bazaar defaults to plain old distributed. but doesn't prevent other workflows at any future time. | 10:42 |
| AuroraBorealis | so if you just do a branch | 10:42 |
| bignose | cheater_: well which is it, you want to remove the other repository or not? | 10:42 |
| AuroraBorealis | then its not 'bound' to anything. it will just commit to your local copy | 10:42 |
| AuroraBorealis | but you can 'bind' it so that when you commit it will commit to both your local copy and your copy on the server or something | 10:42 |
| bignose | cheater_: use ‘push’ and/or ‘pull’ to maintain a mirror. | 10:43 |
| AuroraBorealis | or if you don't want to do that, you can either do push (which will make the repo a mirror) or a merge which will merge the repo's branch with yours | 10:43 |
| bignose | cheater_: once branches diverge, they're no longer mirrors; that's when you use ‘merge’ to reconcile them. | 10:43 |
| cheater_ | AuroraBorealis, what about committing locally, but then at some point specifically saying "ok, take all the changes i've doneo ver the last few commits since branching, and put them in where i branched out from" | 10:43 |
| AuroraBorealis | haha | 10:44 |
| bignose | cheater_: first, please confirm whether or not you want the remote repository deleted, like you originally said | 10:44 |
| AuroraBorealis | well, you can either bind the branch, and do 'local commits' | 10:44 |
| AuroraBorealis | or you can leave it unbound and then commit locally then push or merge the branch' | 10:44 |
| cheater_ | bignose, actually i do, but right now i'm playing with the (unrelated) idea of distributed work with bzr, since you guys sell it so well. | 10:45 |
| cheater_ | just getting some info, that's all. | 10:45 |
| bignose | cheater_: okay. you have a checkout from a remote location | 10:45 |
| cheater_ | :) | 10:45 |
| bignose | cheater_: so, when you commit, the revision data goes first to the remote branch and then to the local one, automatically. | 10:45 |
| bignose | cheater_: that's how Bazaar emulates a centralised workflow | 10:46 |
| bignose | cheater_: if you want temporary disconnected operation on the local branch, do one of two things: | 10:46 |
| bignose | cheater_: ‘bzr commit --local’ to do it just for the one commit | 10:46 |
| bignose | cheater_: or turn the binding off with ‘bzr unbind’, do your disconnected commits for a while, then turn back on the binding with ‘bzr bind REMOTE_URL’ | 10:47 |
| bignose | cheater_: <URL:http://doc.bazaar.canonical.com/explorer/en/guide/core_concepts.html> is essential reading for you now you're askign these questions | 10:48 |
| cheater_ | cool! | 10:49 |
| bignose | cheater_: and <URL:http://doc.bazaar.canonical.com/latest/en/user-guide/using_checkouts.html> for switching between distributed and centralised | 10:49 |
| bignose | cheater_: after reading those, explore the rest of the Bazaar documentation as your interest takes you. it's pretty good. | 10:50 |
| cheater_ | :) | 10:51 |
| cheater_ | i've noticed the bzr community is fairly supportive, i like that | 10:51 |
| bignose | like with PYthon, it helps that the system is *very* well designed and hence easy to teach | 10:52 |
| cheater_ | yeah, in fact i'm sort of trying to push that sort of thing in the haskell community, i think it's lacking in that regard | 10:53 |
| cheater_ | ok so.. how can i merge the parent branch with the one i'm in, so that the merged result is in the parent branch? | 10:53 |
| bignose | cheater_: I gave up very quickly on Haskell when I found that camelCaseNames are endemic through the library and community :-( | 10:53 |
| cheater_ | it could've been worse, at least no braces | 10:54 |
| bignose | heh | 10:54 |
| cheater_ | haha | 10:54 |
| bignose | cheater_: so first of all the terminology is wrong there | 10:54 |
| cheater_ | ok so i've done a local branch, did a checkout of that, and added a file which i then committed to my local branch. | 10:55 |
| bignose | cheater_: you “merge branch BAR into FOO”, in order to get all the revisions from BAR to appear in FOO. FOO remains unaffected. | 10:55 |
| AuroraBorealis | camel case isn't that bad o.o | 10:55 |
| cheater_ | now i want that file to show up in the parent that i branched out of. | 10:55 |
| cheater_ | AuroraBorealis, your nick tells us you're a proponent.. | 10:56 |
| cheater_ | i'd say you're not objective on that matter ;-) | 10:56 |
| bignose | cheater_: no AuroraBorealis has a TitleCaseName, which is fine by me | 10:56 |
| bignose | cheater_: it's camelCaseNames that are inconsistent and ugly and stupid | 10:56 |
| cheater_ | i know, j/k | 10:56 |
| AuroraBorealis | eh, its up to someone's opinion =) | 10:56 |
| AuroraBorealis | i guess i'm used to it because of java. | 10:56 |
| bignose | AuroraBorealis: that may be a reason why I'm emotionally against it :-) | 10:57 |
| AuroraBorealis | =P | 10:57 |
| bignose | cheater_: so, if you could name these branches, that would help us talking about them. | 10:57 |
| cheater_ | ok let's call the server branch "server" and the local branch "local" | 10:57 |
| cheater_ | :p | 10:57 |
| AuroraBorealis | what, you don't like classes like these? http://static.springsource.org/spring/docs/2.5.x/api/org/springframework/aop/framework/AbstractSingletonProxyFactoryBean.html | 10:57 |
| bignose | cheater_: better to name them for the purposes. | 10:58 |
| cheater_ | that is their purpose. i've only done this to test how branches work. | 10:58 |
| bignose | cheater_: perhaps one is “trunk” and you branched for the purpose of a “feature-foo”? | 10:58 |
| bignose | cheater_: any objection to that for the sake of discussion? | 10:58 |
| cheater_ | nah that's fine too | 10:58 |
| cheater_ | :) | 10:58 |
| bignose | okay. so the implications of those names is that “trunk” will eventually get all the revisions that we want to keep, and “feature-foo” is limited in span and focussed on one area of work | 10:59 |
| cheater_ | yes | 10:59 |
| bignose | so you might merge from “trunk” into “feature-foo” if “trunk” has gained a bunch of changes that you want to get up to date with on your ongoing work on feature Foo | 11:00 |
| bignose | alternatively, you might merge from “feature-foo” into “trunk” if your work on feature Foo has reached a point that it's worth making part of the main line of development | 11:00 |
| bignose | cheater_: so what's the case in this instance? | 11:01 |
| cheater_ | yes, i want to merge from "feature-foo" to "trunk" | 11:01 |
| bignose | cheater_: okay. a merge is always done into the current branch. | 11:01 |
| cheater_ | i know how to merge from "trunk" to "feature-foo", i just go to the feature-foo directory and do bzr merge | 11:01 |
| cheater_ | ok | 11:01 |
| cheater_ | however, my feature-foo is located behind a firewall | 11:01 |
| cheater_ | so i'd somehow need to initiate the connection from here | 11:02 |
| bignose | cheater_: if the branch doesn't have a remembered location to merge from (it's “parent”, I think; that might have changed recently) | 11:02 |
| cheater_ | yes, it's "parent" | 11:02 |
| bignose | cheater_: then you specify the branch to merge from on the ‘bzr merge’ command line. | 11:02 |
| cheater_ | ok | 11:02 |
| cheater_ | how do i go about fixing my firewall problem? | 11:03 |
| bignose | cheater_: the concept there is that “feature-foo” should ideally keep getting changes from upstream, i.e. changes perhaps made on other branches that themselves got merged into trunk earlier | 11:03 |
| cheater_ | yeah | 11:03 |
| bignose | cheater_: and you choose when that happens by merging explicitly, but the default place to merge from is its parent. | 11:03 |
| bignose | cheater_: whereas “trunk” shouldn't necessarily have any parent; there is no good default palce to merge from, so you specify each time you merge into trunk. | 11:04 |
| bignose | cheater_: what firewall problem? | 11:04 |
| bignose | need to be AFK for dinner now. I leave you in the tender care of the other channel denizens. | 11:04 |
| cheater_ | :) | 11:05 |
| cheater_ | thanks a lot for the help | 11:05 |
| cheater_ | enjoy your dinner.. | 11:05 |
| lifeless | jelmer: is https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/826082 got any chance of being a regression from your refactoring ? | 20:39 |
| ubot5 | Ubuntu bug 826082 in Launchpad itself "BadUrl from safe_open opening a branch" [Critical,Triaged] | 20:39 |
| jelmer | lifeless, looking | 20:44 |
| lifeless | jelmer: thanks! | 20:49 |
| jelmer | lifeless: hmm, it indeed seems like it would be related. The problem isn't obvious to me though, and unreproducible (at the moment). | 21:13 |
| lifeless | so far only one occurence | 21:21 |
| lifeless | but its a little concerning ;) | 21:21 |
| jelmer | lifeless: yeah | 21:22 |
| === yofel_ is now known as yofel | ||
| thomi | Hi, is there a safe way to delete a branch from disk on a bzr repo server? I mean, what if someone's half way through read/writing it? | 21:41 |
| lifeless | so for a read, they will get an error | 21:44 |
| lifeless | for a write, their repository transaction will complete ok but then the change to the branch pointer will error | 21:44 |
| lifeless | neither case should lead to repository corruption | 21:45 |
| === Mkaysi is now known as ProgVaal | ||
| === ProgVaal is now known as Mkaysi | ||
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