| nigelb | I still can't figure out why I started hacking on LP before I read about Zope 3. | 02:33 |
|---|---|---|
| nigelb | Finally I'm reading Zope 3 intros :P | 02:33 |
| * StevenK purges 3GiB of postgres logs so that /var actually has some free space. | 04:53 | |
| * nigelb twitches at GiB | 04:57 | |
| StevenK | nigelb: You don't like {K,M,G,T}iB? | 05:00 |
| StevenK | Can't remember what comes after T. E? | 05:00 |
| lifeless | Eca | 05:21 |
| lifeless | bah | 05:21 |
| lifeless | Exa | 05:21 |
| StevenK | Right, so it is E | 05:22 |
| lifeless | or is it P | 05:22 |
| StevenK | Then, P, then Z, and then OMGBBQWTFBIG | 05:22 |
| lifeless | it might be P E | 05:22 |
| lifeless | ah E P | 05:22 |
| lifeless | wgrant: we don't build-in a structure of partitioned namespaces (partly because teams have no project affiliation etc | 05:24 |
| lifeless | wgrant: so folk need to remember | 05:24 |
| lifeless | wgrant: however, this one has me confused too ;P | 05:32 |
| nigelb | StevenK: My dislike is for the 'i' | 06:20 |
| lifeless | nigelb: you're a no i kinda guy ? | 06:21 |
| nigelb | lifeless: Bwahaha. No. | 06:22 |
| nigelb | So, I noticed something weird today. | 06:26 |
| nigelb | Potentialy a mintor security thing. | 06:26 |
| nigelb | When I go to https://launchpad.net/~canonical-sysadmins, I see a <hidden> under "Subteam of" | 06:27 |
| nigelb | Isn't our policy to to show "its not even there" when something isn't supposed to be seen? | 06:27 |
| nigelb | s/show/do'g | 06:28 |
| nigelb | s/show/do/g | 06:28 |
| lifeless | thats an adapter kicking in and preventing disclosure | 06:35 |
| lifeless | yes, it shouldn't show at all, but its a cosmetic, not a security, concern | 06:35 |
| lifeless | please do file a bug | 06:35 |
| nigelb | cool, will do | 06:36 |
| wgrant | lifeless: It is actually a security concern, slightly. | 06:49 |
| wgrant | I filed it a couple of years ago. | 06:49 |
| wgrant | It's in alphabetical order. | 06:49 |
| wgrant | So you can determine the display name. | 06:49 |
| nigelb | wgrant: there's already a bug? | 06:50 |
| wgrant | I think so. Trying to find it... | 06:50 |
| lifeless | wgrant: you can guess at possible display names ;) | 06:51 |
| wgrant | lifeless: Then you can create teams on staging to do a search. | 06:51 |
| nigelb | wgrant: bug 329132 | 06:51 |
| nigelb | ? | 06:51 |
| _mup_ | Bug #329132: Strange string under "Subteam of" in LOSAs' team page <confusing-ui> <lp-registry> <registry-people> <Launchpad itself:Fix Released by bac> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/329132 > | 06:51 |
| wgrant | Hah | 06:52 |
| wgrant | What a fix. | 06:52 |
| wgrant | I thought I filed a similar one, though... | 06:52 |
| * nigelb stabs Zope 3 | 06:53 | |
| nigelb | Trying to get it to work. Refuses to work. | 06:54 |
| wgrant | What are you doing to the poor creature? | 06:54 |
| nigelb | Using Benji's quick start guide | 06:54 |
| wgrant | nigelb: I guess you should file a new one rather than reopen the old one. | 06:54 |
| nigelb | wgrant: Filing now | 06:55 |
| wgrant | nigelb: You may have some issues with using that. | 06:55 |
| nigelb | Oh. | 06:55 |
| wgrant | nigelb: Since Zope 3 doesn't exist any more. | 06:55 |
| nigelb | wtf. | 06:55 |
| wgrant | It's... complicated. | 06:55 |
| wgrant | Most of the underlying libraries now make up what is known as the Zope Toolkit, or ZTK. | 06:55 |
| wgrant | The UI (ZMI and other stuff that's mentioned there) is not part of the ZTK, and was abandoned for a time. | 06:56 |
| wgrant | But then was made into its own project atop the ZTK, BlueBream. | 06:56 |
| nigelb | All I wanted was to get a hands on feel for zope minus the complications of Launchpad so I can figure out Launchpad faster. | 06:56 |
| wgrant | Not sure if that is still active. | 06:56 |
| wgrant | http://bluebream.zope.org/screencasts.html may be helpful. | 06:56 |
| wgrant | http://bluebream.zope.org/doc/1.0/index.html too | 06:57 |
| wgrant | Looks like the docs don't make me want to die any more. Which is a good start. | 06:57 |
| nigelb | Oh, cool! | 06:57 |
| nigelb | Thank you | 06:57 |
| nigelb | Is that closer to what LP is using? | 06:57 |
| wgrant | LP doesn't use BlueBream, but it uses many components of the ZTK. | 06:58 |
| wgrant | Not all the latest versions, but mostly within the last 18 months. | 06:58 |
| wgrant | It also uses some stuff that BlueBream uses but that is outside the ZTK. | 06:58 |
| nigelb | Ok, so it should give me a good basic idea. | 06:58 |
| wgrant | Yup. | 06:58 |
| nigelb | Right now, I'm coding on LP with extensing grepping and asking here. | 06:59 |
| nigelb | And grepping my logs of asking here. | 06:59 |
| wgrant | Previously I would have suggested that you obtain, by some means, a copy of Web Component Development with Zope 3. But it was already obsolete when I started, and it's going to not be practically usable now. | 06:59 |
| wgrant | Good in-depth teaching of the concepts, though. | 07:00 |
| wgrant | Most LP engineers do what you do, I think :) | 07:00 |
| wgrant | They learn Zope 3 by drowning in LP. | 07:00 |
| nigelb | Hah | 07:00 |
| wgrant | "It is recommended to use a custom-built Python for working with BlueBream." | 07:01 |
| wgrant | Gaaaaah stupid Python people. | 07:01 |
| nigelb | heh | 07:01 |
| wgrant | (if following the bluebream getting started guide, I would use virtualenv to install bluebream without polluting your system) | 07:02 |
| nigelb | I always use virtualenv for this kinda stuff | 07:03 |
| lifeless | wgrant: ah, nifty | 07:03 |
| wgrant | From Wikipedia: "BlueBream is in active development and is now considered a stable framework, used on production projects worldwide, most notably Launchpad." | 07:03 |
| nigelb | WHAT? | 07:04 |
| wgrant | But we don't use the whole thing :( | 07:04 |
| wgrant | Maybe they've altered the scope of BlueBream to be everything that was in Zope 3 that is not in the ZTK. | 07:04 |
| wgrant | Last I heard it was primarily the ZMI. | 07:04 |
| lifeless | nigelb: my preferred solution for 'LP is hard to understand' is to clean things up | 07:04 |
| lifeless | nigelb: e.g. by deleting lots o fcode | 07:05 |
| nigelb | lifeless: My problem is my web development experience is in Django. I'm trying to figure out how is the sort of right way to to do things in zope. | 07:05 |
| lifeless | nigelb: ah | 07:05 |
| nigelb | Its probably a day or two of reading up | 07:05 |
| lifeless | nigelb: so do you want the good news or the bad nes ? | 07:05 |
| * StevenK deleted something like 2,800 lines of code yesterday | 07:05 | |
| nigelb | I figured its time I invested that | 07:05 |
| nigelb | lifeless: I'll take the bad news first | 07:05 |
| lifeless | nigelb: the right way of doing things is the wrong way for LP | 07:05 |
| nigelb | Expected. | 07:06 |
| nigelb | Yay! | 07:06 |
| lifeless | sorry, that was mistyped. But hilarious. | 07:06 |
| lifeless | nigelb: the right way of doing things in zope is the wrong way for LP | 07:06 |
| nigelb | StevenK: When I meet at some point, I'll buy you a drink for that. | 07:06 |
| lifeless | is what I meant to say. | 07:06 |
| nigelb | Small difference :) | 07:06 |
| nigelb | StevenK: *meet you | 07:06 |
| lifeless | two words, but significant impact :> | 07:07 |
| wgrant | lifeless: Well, everything except persistence is not too bad. | 07:07 |
| lifeless | wgrant: except that *everything* is driven by persistence. | 07:07 |
| lifeless | wgrant: also you forgot configuration. | 07:07 |
| nigelb | Well, so I'm probably looking at bare basic concepts. Like tal thingy or zcml. | 07:07 |
| nigelb | Both of these I still don't really understand, but I can read and guess | 07:08 |
| wgrant | lifeless: Except ZCA and views and TAL and ZCML and the general architecture. | 07:08 |
| lifeless | wgrant: tal and views are impacted by persistence; zcml is because of the model:interfaces interactions. | 07:08 |
| wgrant | Only slightly. | 07:09 |
| wgrant | lifeless: Also, do we want to roll back that spaces in URLs thing? | 07:09 |
| lifeless | wgrant: zca also interacts with persistence in the same way, fwiw | 07:09 |
| lifeless | wgrant: yes, we do. | 07:09 |
| wgrant | Shouldn't have to roll back production, since we're almost deployable. | 07:10 |
| wgrant | Also there's also an additional 1000 Loggerhead OOPSes that we might care about. | 07:10 |
| lifeless | wgrant: are you still on leave ? | 07:10 |
| wgrant | Yes. | 07:10 |
| lifeless | heh | 07:10 |
| lifeless | wgrant: I was going to ask if you felt like doing the rollback | 07:10 |
| nigelb | If wgrant is *this* productive when he's on leave... | 07:10 |
| wgrant | qemu-kvm's broken gdbstub is broken enough that I will look at work, but not do it :) | 07:10 |
| nigelb | lifeless: I saw the wiki LEP. Has it gone stale or is it still alive? | 07:11 |
| lifeless | nigelb: its confused | 07:11 |
| nigelb | Because I'd like to propose extracting stuff from readthedocs and bring it into LP. | 07:11 |
| StevenK | lifeless: Oh, the loggerhead rollback? | 07:11 |
| lifeless | StevenK: not loggerhead, url ascii rules | 07:11 |
| wgrant | loggerhead's broken too, but I think that might be two rollouts ago. | 07:12 |
| wgrant | Not quite sure. | 07:12 |
| lifeless | 993 RuntimeError: dictionary changed size during iteration ? | 07:12 |
| lifeless | probably bzrlib | 07:12 |
| wgrant | We didn't upgrade bzrlib, did we? | 07:13 |
| wgrant | Still 2.3.3 | 07:13 |
| wgrant | We did upgrade loggerhead. | 07:13 |
| lifeless | we need a bug at the least | 07:15 |
| lifeless | and probably a rollback of loggerhead too | 07:15 |
| * wgrant curses lifeless a bit. | 07:18 | |
| lifeless | wgrant: ? | 07:18 |
| wgrant | The only thing left writing to BugTask's target key attributes directly is the bugsummary tests. | 07:18 |
| wgrant | removeSecurityProxy ftw. | 07:19 |
| lifeless | wgrant: hah. I didn't write those :P | 07:19 |
| wgrant | GUILTY | 07:19 |
| wgrant | We might be able to put NULL Project to sleep on Monday... | 07:20 |
| StevenK | Oh, nice | 07:21 |
| StevenK | wgrant: Can I land populate-bprc now? | 07:21 |
| lifeless | StevenK: why wouldn't you ? | 07:22 |
| wgrant | Well, it almost has a veto. | 07:22 |
| wgrant | (not from me!) | 07:22 |
| StevenK | lifeless: From a certain GSA who won't be named saying it sounded like an epicly bad idea | 07:22 |
| lifeless | how so ? | 07:23 |
| lifeless | what was the concern ? | 07:23 |
| lifeless | https://bugs.launchpad.net/loggerhead/+bug/826136 | 07:23 |
| _mup_ | Bug #826136: dictionary changed size during iteration <oops> <loggerhead:Triaged> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/826136 > | 07:23 |
| StevenK | lifeless: That the data does not and should not go into the main DB | 07:24 |
| lifeless | StevenK: thats not a concern | 07:24 |
| lifeless | StevenK: thats a conclusion | 07:24 |
| lifeless | :) | 07:24 |
| StevenK | lifeless: After wgrant and I talked about it, we decided to wait for a bit, since if we kick off the migration, it's quite difficult to migrate the data back out again | 07:25 |
| lifeless | StevenK: I don't follow. | 07:25 |
| wgrant | It's slightly awkward. | 07:25 |
| wgrant | Not quite difficult :) | 07:25 |
| StevenK | lifeless: It's a large amount of data that will land into launchpad_main -- it will sit like a red wine stain. Once it's there, it will require persistance to move | 07:27 |
| lifeless | StevenK: so the concern is size? | 07:28 |
| lifeless | StevenK: why isn't deleting it as simple as a loop doing delete LIMIT 50 ? | 07:29 |
| StevenK | lifeless: No. My small concern is migration pain | 07:29 |
| StevenK | My other concern is I'm not clever enough to implement step 3 and 4 of the grand plan | 07:29 |
| lifeless | they being? | 07:30 |
| StevenK | 3. Hook into the publisher to create and delete rows in BPRC and BPP when it publishes or superseded a BPR. | 07:30 |
| StevenK | 4. Hook into the publisher to generate contents file, and turn off the current contents generation script. | 07:31 |
| lifeless | 3 seems bogus | 07:31 |
| wgrant | Both are. | 07:31 |
| StevenK | Eh? | 07:31 |
| wgrant | Neither should be in the publisher, I don't think. | 07:31 |
| wgrant | BPRC lifetime is the same as file lifetime. | 07:32 |
| lifeless | 4 could be in the publisher, or separate | 07:32 |
| wgrant | So they should certainly not be removed by the publisher. | 07:32 |
| wgrant | 4 is possibly OK, but not required, and there's already enough in the publisher IMO :) | 07:32 |
| lifeless | 3 is bogus because there can be N published entries, and trying to add just-in-time or delete just-after-use will be massively racy. | 07:32 |
| StevenK | The garbo job should certainly keep up with new BPRs, but I'm concerned about bloat in BPRC/BPP | 07:34 |
| wgrant | The BPF expiry script will remove them. | 07:34 |
| StevenK | wgrant: Ah, that reminds me. | 07:34 |
| StevenK | wgrant: The populate-bprc garbo job returns BPRs that do not have any BPFs. Do not want. | 07:35 |
| wgrant | Indeed, although in production there shouldn't be any. | 07:35 |
| StevenK | wgrant: Hah, maybe. | 07:36 |
| lifeless | StevenK: so here is a question folk might like to answer | 07:36 |
| StevenK | lifeless, wgrant: So, land the garbo population job and then think about the next step while it populates? | 07:36 |
| lifeless | 'when was /usr/bin/foo introducted to the archive' | 07:36 |
| lifeless | StevenK: we might want to gc things for space considerations | 07:37 |
| lifeless | but having enough data to ssatisfy the use case is the first step | 07:37 |
| StevenK | We certainly do want to GC things | 07:37 |
| lifeless | StevenK: what was the gsa's concern ? | 07:37 |
| StevenK | lifeless: That it doesn't belong in the main DB | 07:37 |
| lifeless | StevenK: You can fit *every* file in *every* arch in *every* published deb, ever, in < 5GB | 07:37 |
| lifeless | [excluding PPAs, but they are (for now) still minimal) | 07:38 |
| StevenK | lifeless: Modulo bugs :-( | 07:38 |
| lifeless | StevenK: yes, but having extra rows would be fairly obvious | 07:42 |
| lifeless | StevenK: I don't think gc is a given. | 07:42 |
| * StevenK fixes the conflicts the branch has with devel | 07:44 | |
| lifeless | rev 13687 is the rollback | 08:17 |
| StevenK | lifeless: We don't have much QA to do, wallyworld_, bigjools, 2 * danilo | 08:18 |
| StevenK | We might be able to deploy on Monday afternoon UK time | 08:18 |
| lifeless | not morning ? | 08:26 |
| StevenK | lifeless: Depends on how quick the QA is done -- I was being pessimistic. | 08:30 |
| === almaisan-away is now known as al-maisan | ||
| === al-maisan is now known as almaisan-away | ||
| nigelb | gah, qastaging is timing out, known? | 15:00 |
| jelmer | nigelb, hey | 15:12 |
| jelmer | nigelb, I don't think it is - perhaps it's just updating? | 15:12 |
| nigelb | jelmer: hm, maybe. | 16:05 |
| nigelb | I'll just try a while later :) | 16:05 |
| lifeless | nigelb: timing out on all pages or just one ? | 20:08 |
| lifeless | nigelb: some timeouts are (unfortunately) 'normal' for [qa]staging | 20:08 |
| lifeless | aieeeee | 23:30 |
| lifeless | IUnloggedException. Sob. | 23:30 |
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