[00:01] <mhall119> czajkowski: something is causing harvest to do very bad things, and it's killing every other site on the box
[00:01] <mhall119> it's also making my inbox explode
[00:02] <mhall119> 200+ messages :(
[00:15] <cjohnston> its bad
[00:16] <cjohnston> i made a rule
[00:16] <cjohnston> :-(
[00:32] <mhall119> it's bringing the box to it's knees
[00:32] <mhall119> I've seen load > 12
[01:12] <mhall119> I'm going to have unhappy words with dholbach tomorrow
[01:13] <pleia2> yuck :\
[01:15] <mhall119> I wonder if "correct horse staple battery" is the 2nd most popular password in use right now
[01:16]  * mhall119 hates his college password policy
[01:44] <mhall119> looks like I may be taking French this semester
[02:43] <nigelb> mhall119: Don't worry, I'll catch dholbach first :D
[02:57] <mhall119> nigelb: kick him for me
[03:08] <nigelb> mhall119: Yeah, I will. With any luck, his inbox will be far worse.
[06:53] <dpm> good morning all
[07:06] <dholbach> good morning
[07:20] <dpm> morning dholbach
[07:22] <dholbach> hey dpm
[07:23] <dpm> hey, how were the holidays? :)
[07:24] <dholbach> great :)
[07:24] <dholbach> the first week in the North of Norway was pretty relaxed, but the second week a bit more heavy with travelling and meeting loads of people, but still fun :)
[07:32] <dpm> cool :)
[08:04] <nigelb> dholbach: heya!
[08:04] <nigelb> morning dpm
[08:05] <nigelb> dholbach: Harvest crons are eating out the machine it's hosted. We had to kill the cron becase it wwas hitting summit and LD. When you get some time, could you talk to IS and sort it out? :)
[08:06] <dpm> morning nigelb :)
[08:07] <dholbach> nigelb, do you have any specifics?
[08:08] <nigelb> dholbach: from the errors that we got in summit, I think its not releasing postgres connections. elmo will know better though
[08:08] <nigelb> s/summit/summit and LD/g
[08:08] <dholbach> hum, the harvest crons jobs are django management commands just like the ones in the LD/summit
[08:09] <nigelb> maybe they're running too long and opening up too many simultaneous connections?
[08:10] <dholbach> I doubt the latter
[08:10] <dholbach> running too long I can test
[08:15] <kim0> Morning all
[08:15] <kim0> dholbach: dpm welcome back folks .. did you enjoy yout time off
[08:15] <dholbach> hey kim0
[08:15] <dholbach> yeah, I did :)
[08:15] <dholbach> dpm, how was your time off?
[08:15] <dpm> morning kim0 - I definitely did :)
[08:16] <kim0> Great :)
[08:17] <dpm> dholbach, it was awesome, we went to Tuscany for the week, hired a car and made short trips to visit the surroundings. The area is beautiful! We nearly met with Paolo in Siena, but it didn't work out in the end
[08:18] <dholbach> nice, that's awesome
[08:26] <dholbach> nigelb, the update cronjob takes 4m
[08:26] <dholbach> but I found something else, let me dig out the link
[08:27] <dholbach> in a very old commit, that up until recently was no problem
[08:28] <dholbach> it might be a red herring, but it's all I have: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~harvest-dev/harvest/trunk/revision/120
[08:28] <dholbach> in updatelists.py
[08:32]  * nigelb looks
[08:32] <nigelb> sorry, was away for lunch
[08:33] <nigelb> dholbach: cranberry was running out of memory and postgres connections for about 2 weeks ;)
[08:33] <dholbach> nigelb, the code has been in there for ~2 years :)
[08:34] <nigelb> dholbach: yeah, I know, which is strange :)
[08:34] <dholbach> but maybe that bit is not the problem at all, I don't know
[08:37] <nigelb> dholbach: do you want to grab elmo sometime this week? He'll have mo details.
[08:37] <nigelb> Btw, mhall119 and cjohnston are looking forward to kicking you :P
[08:38] <nigelb> (just a heads up)
[08:38] <dholbach> ...
[08:38] <nigelb> we had about 200 emails over night since friday
[08:38] <nigelb> mhall had twice as many
[08:38] <nigelb> (summit *and* LD)
[08:47] <dholbach> I got the LD mails as well
[08:47] <dholbach> and I agree that we should fix whatever needs fixing
[08:48] <nigelb> I'll try to get elmo
[08:48] <nigelb> So we can know what exactly is broken
[08:48] <dholbach> let's talk in #canonical-sysadmin
[08:48] <nigelb> I know you're probbaly busy catching up
[08:48] <dholbach> I just think it's weird that it started acting up in the last 2 weeks
[08:48] <dholbach> and Harvest hasn't changed much in the last time
[08:48] <nigelb> Yeah, when it acted up, everything acted up.
[08:48] <nigelb> Like, summit, LD, sponsoring reports, etc
[08:49] <nigelb> because of either OOM or postgres
[11:12] <AlanBell> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5smhy9OB-CM
[11:13] <nigelb> bwahahah
[11:14] <nigelb> im glad he wasnt injured
[11:15] <nigelb> AlanBell: where is the one of you drunk? :P
[11:15] <AlanBell> I am glad the ironing boad wasn't permanently damaged!
[11:15] <nigelb> haha
[11:17] <AlanBell> this one is me https://plus.google.com/109175303602657131317/posts/SjwA3kCHD1S
[11:18] <AlanBell> and aquarius
[11:48] <nigelb> AlanBell: I didn't know you could breathe fire ;)
[11:53] <nigelb> AlanBell: hahah "I'mnot doing that ***** thing"
[12:01] <duanedesign> hello nigelb  AlanBell
[12:14] <mhall119> morning dholbach , nigelb
[12:15] <nigelb> hey duanedesign
[12:15] <nigelb> Morning mhall119. IS is sprinting, so hard to grab hold of them.
[12:15] <mhall119> :?
[12:16] <mhall119> so what's the status this morning, harvest's crons shut off?
[12:16] <mhall119> dholbach: has harvest's data been updating at all?
[12:17] <nigelb> mhall119: harvest crons temporarily shut off.
[12:19] <mhall119> dholbach: i saw a lot of idle postgres transactions for harvest, could it be something not closing off a transaction or something?
[12:19] <mhall119> or something blocking on network IO it can't reach, but not timing out?
[12:20] <dholbach> mhall119, yep it has been updating
[12:21] <dholbach> I noticed a 2 year old commit (http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~harvest-dev/harvest/trunk/revision/120) I'm unsure about, but it hasn't been a problem until 2 weeks ago
[12:21] <dholbach> but I have no idea if it actually is causing the problems we're seeing
[12:21] <mhall119> so you haven't been pushing new code out in 2 years?
[12:22] <dholbach> we have, but the lines in updatelists that were added weren't changed since then
[12:22] <dholbach> as I said - I don't know if it's red herring or not
[12:25] <mhall119> does updatelists call into the other code at all?
[12:25] <mhall119> or is it standalone?
[12:25] <dholbach> a standalone cronjob
[12:25] <mhall119> ok
[12:27] <mhall119> how often does updatelists run?
[12:27] <dholbach> I don't know exactly, I assume every 30m?
[12:29] <mhall119> and does it just make calls to the launchpad api?
[12:30] <dholbach> I just saw that updateopportunities makes use of those transaction bits too
[12:30] <dholbach> both get stuff from LP and other places (urllib)
[12:30] <mhall119> wow, google is buying motorola
[12:31] <dholbach> I basically just had a look at where harvest differs from LD and the transaction bits looked "non-standard" to me
[12:31] <dholbach> do you think that could be the problem?
[12:31] <mhall119> could be, like I said I saw a lot of idle transaction processes consuming ram
[12:31] <dholbach> ok
[12:32] <dholbach> I'll propose a merge, but talk to elmo first to find out what he noticed
[12:33] <dholbach> thanks for having a look at it
[12:35] <mhall119> np
[12:39] <duanedesign> hello hello mr nigelb
[13:26] <ara> akgraner, hey!
[13:27] <akgraner> ara, hey!
[13:27] <ara> akgraner, are you coming to the UF meeting today?
[13:27] <akgraner> I can...I was just working on an email to you all...
[13:27] <akgraner> :-)
[13:28] <akgraner> I haven't commented much as I I felt the process is awesome, but I was also awesomely confused.  I think I've gotten that worked out as I re-read all the mailing list info and wiki pages this weekend..
[13:29] <ara> akgraner, cool, because there is a topic on the ubuntu release parties and it would be great if you could be there :)
[13:29] <akgraner> ara, roger that I'll be there.. in -quality right?  I need to add that to my auto-join script...
[13:31] <ara> akgraner, yes, I took that channel because it is not as crowed as -meeting and it has a meeting bot
[13:32] <akgraner> great - just making sure I had the right place..thanks!
[14:16] <jcastro> dholbach: ping
[14:17] <jcastro> hey I totally missed the calendar email
[14:17] <jcastro> you wanted to talk nowish?
[14:33] <dholbach> jcastro, we were meant to look at "UGJ hitlist" today
[14:33] <jcastro> we were?
[14:33] <jcastro> what is it?
[14:33] <jcastro> sorry I am just back from a sprint and discombobulated
[14:34] <dholbach> jcastro, at the sprint we said "let's talk about the hitlist 2 weeks before UGJ"
[14:34] <jcastro> oh ok
[14:34] <jcastro> which hitlist?
[14:34] <dholbach> this is my first day after the holidays too :)
[14:35] <dholbach> I just had it in my calendar
[14:35] <dholbach> I assume a "things to do" list for UGJ
[14:36] <jcastro> OH OH.
[14:36] <jcastro> so it's not like a list of bugs or something I had to prepare
[14:36] <jcastro> good. :)
[14:38] <dholbach> jcastro, we should talk to bug/distro/etc people about it
[14:38] <jcastro> ok
[14:39] <jcastro> hey how do you feel about having a quick call tommorrow
[14:39] <jcastro> I need like some time to catch up with other crap
[14:41] <dholbach> sure
[14:46] <jcastro> <3 you
[14:47] <paultag> awwwwww, ♥
[14:47]  * nigelb hugs everyone
[14:50] <dholbach> :-)
[14:50]  * dholbach hugs you all
[15:02] <nigelb> dholbach / mhall119: Its dying again :(
[15:03] <nigelb> (it = guanabana)
[15:04] <kim0> cool name! what's that :)
[15:04] <nigelb> kim0: server hosting a lot of community websites :)
[15:04] <nigelb> kim0: IS likes fruits. Earlier server was cranberry
[15:04] <kim0> nigelb: hehe cool :)
[15:04] <jono> kim0, about set?
[15:05] <kim0> yeah
[15:06] <dholbach> hey jono
[15:06] <dholbach> nigelb, dying with harvest disabled?
[15:06] <jono> hey dholbach
[15:06] <nigelb> dholbach: harvest is still up, so i don't know about disabled.
[15:07] <mhall119> yah,  I'll be sprinting at UDS
[15:07] <mhall119> dholbach: only harvest's cron job is disabled
[15:08] <mhall119> so maybe it's not updatelists causing the problems at all
[15:08] <mhall119> but rather something in the site code itself
[15:08] <jono> kim0, invite sent
[15:09] <dholbach> mhall119, feel free to disable it for a while and see if that fixes things
[15:09] <mhall119> dholbach: it's been disabled since this morning, and nigelb says the problems are still happening
[15:10] <nigelb> I'm talking to IS, so feel free to jump in, I'll report back on what's happening.
[15:10] <AlanBell> jono: https://plus.google.com/109175303602657131317/posts/SjwA3kCHD1S
[15:10] <dholbach> mhall119, the site or the cronjobs?
[15:11] <mhall119> dholbach: cronjob
[15:11] <nigelb> AlanBell: who's the brave lady? ;)
[15:11] <AlanBell> she is Carolyn
[15:12] <nigelb> AlanBell: and what were you spitting out? beer?
[15:12] <dholbach> mhall119, feel free to disable the site for a while and see if that's the issue
[15:24] <jono> AlanBell, nice!
[15:25] <AlanBell> nigelb: parafin
[15:25] <jono> grabbing breakfast, brb
[15:25] <nigelb> AlanBell: woah, isn't that sort of dangerous?
[15:25] <AlanBell> nigelb: oh, actually I did rinse my mouth out with beer, yes
[15:26] <AlanBell> nigelb: how do you think it works!
[15:26] <nigelb> heh
[15:26] <AlanBell> you take a mouthfull of parafin and kind of spit and spray it out over a flame
[15:27] <AlanBell> and I ended up dribbling most of it down my shirt so I was a little bit worried about bursting into flames
[15:29] <AlanBell> not worried enough to actually stop playing with fire though
[15:29] <nigelb> heh
[16:08] <jono> anyone here using Thunderbird on Oneirc?
[16:08] <jono> Oneirc
[16:08] <jono> Oneiric
[16:08] <jono> ugh
[16:13] <jcastro> I've got it
[16:13] <jcastro> I don't use it much
[16:13] <akgraner> I've got it - but I only use it for my work account...like jcastro I don't use it much...
[16:14] <jcastro> kim0: want to double up on the reports tomorrow?
[16:15] <kim0> jcastro: Yeah was just gonna say that :)
[16:18] <hggdh> jono: I was using it until I gave up on Oneiric. No problems there
[16:19] <jono> hggdh, cool
[16:19] <jono> I am trying to see if anyone else is getting https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/compiz/+bug/822929
[16:19] <kim0> jono: I am .. what's up
[16:19] <ubot2> Ubuntu bug 822929 in compiz "Significant screen tearing when using Thunderbird" [Undecided,New]
[16:20] <kim0> ah I'm not using compiz .. gave up on that :) unity-2d ftw
[16:21] <hggdh> and I *cannot* use unity 3d on Intel, compiz dies on startup
[16:21] <hggdh> (on a netbook)
[16:24] <jono> interesting
[16:24] <jcastro> mine is totally boned
[16:25] <jcastro> I had to use 2d all last week
[16:25] <jcastro> along with almost everyone at the sprint
[16:25] <jcastro> <--- lunch
[17:14] <czajkowski> pleia2: AlanBell can ye please link to your applications in the agenda https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoCouncil/Agenda
[17:16] <pleia2> doh, AlanBell editing
[17:16] <AlanBell> badly
[17:17] <AlanBell> ok, all yours pleia2
[17:17] <pleia2> ty
[17:17] <paultag> frack, email's blowing up
[17:17] <paultag> thanks guise
[18:00] <jcastro> jono: I'm all set
[18:00] <jono> jcastro, sure, one sec
[18:00] <jcastro> \m/ >_< \m/
[18:06] <paultag> "A great collective gasp issued from tuned-in Firefox fans when Mozilla announced that it was switching to a Chrome-like release schedule for its browser. Now Mozilla wants to take things one step further and remove Firefox version numbers entirely — from the user-facing parts of the browser, anyway."
[18:06] <paultag> Oh jeez, what morons :)
[18:06] <paultag> when's ubuntu switching to chrome as the default browser, again?
[18:07] <popey> makes sense to me
[18:07] <popey> I have no clue what version of chrome I am on
[18:07] <popey> so why even show it
[18:07] <Pici> I'd like that. I'm tired of users asking for firefox $versionnumber
[18:07] <popey> yeah
[18:08] <paultag> it won't help that
[18:08] <paultag> since we'd be out of date it'd whine and try to klobber dpkg
[18:08] <popey> there'd just be firefox $latest, and firefox $notupdated
[18:08] <Pici> When they in-fact don't even know what changed between releases, they just want the bigger number.
[18:08] <popey> depends how it's delivered
[18:08] <paultag> firefox'd check it's own servers for uptodateness
[18:08] <paultag> not the apt repo
[18:08] <popey> that.. depends how its delivered
[18:09] <Pici> I think that chrom(e|ium)'s channels are a rather sane way of delivering different levels of stability to the end-user/tester/developer
[18:09] <popey> we used to disable that in firefox
[18:09] <paultag> popey: they won't implement it for every package management system, I'm sure of it
[18:09] <popey> they might not, we might
[18:09] <paultag> big ugly patches :(
[18:10] <jcastro> we're not out of date
[18:10] <jcastro> the PPAs and updates are all ready to go
[18:13] <jcastro> jono: you have to restart the hangout I think
[18:20] <duanedesign> i am sure you have seen this, but just in case :) we are hoping for a good turnout since it is the first one and will probably decide if their are more, http://voices.canonical.com/ubuntuone/?p=1053
[18:26] <Pendulum> jono: just as an FYI, I'm not sure if your survery is take-able by anyone who uses a screen reader
[18:27] <Pendulum> (I can't check it while I take it and survey monkey radio buttons have been things where I know accessibility audits in the past done by 3rd parties have fallen down)
[18:29] <AlanBell> what survey?
[18:33] <mhall119> AlanBell: check your email
[18:33] <mhall119> jono sent it to all ubuntu members
[18:33] <AlanBell> oh, email, I remember that
[18:34] <czajkowski> he did
[18:34] <czajkowski> I've no email :/
[18:36] <pleia2> maybe we're too old
[18:37] <pleia2> (I didn't receive one either)
[18:37] <czajkowski> hmm
[18:37] <czajkowski> pleia2: maybe we're not special :(
[18:37] <Pici> I haven't gotten that many emails today anyway, weird.
[18:38] <jono> Pendulum, yeah, unfortunately we don't have a decent alternative
[18:38] <jono> Pendulum, I would be more than happy to manually add data from those who email it to me though
[18:38] <AlanBell> jono: I did set up a limesurvey instance last time this happened
[18:38] <jono> czajkowski, pleia2 it is sent to all applicants from the last two years
[18:39] <jono> AlanBell, gotcha
[18:39] <paultag> ah, sweet. that's why I did not get it either :)
[18:39] <jono> :-)
[18:39] <nigelb> I got one, and finished too.
[18:39] <paultag> awww
[18:39] <paultag> cute :)
[18:39] <nigelb> But I think I might not be your ideal survey material ;)
[18:40] <nigelb> I mean, I was on a team with paultag. That pretty much skews normal sample :P
[18:40] <paultag> nigelb: always, my man. What was it about? How often you get yelled at?
[18:40] <nigelb> paultag: lol, other way around.
[18:41] <nigelb> How was your membership process, how smooth it was, etc.
[18:41] <paultag> oh jeez
[18:41] <paultag> sure
[18:41] <nigelb> Well, I had *lots* of help with the wiki page and I talked to a lot of people.
[18:41] <nigelb> Which meant lots of testimonials, so the membership process was smooth.
[18:41] <Pendulum> jono: have you blogged about the survey at all? just not sure how to let anyone who might qualify to know about it (because I know there are screen reader users out there who I certainly don't know about and some of them very well may be members who applied within the last 2 years, but there's nothing in that e-mail saying 'contact jono for alternate format'
[18:41] <czajkowski> Coding DOjos in ireland need Ubuntu USB live sticks :D http://codrcamp.com/2011/08/dublin-coderdojo-coming-soon/
[18:42] <jono> Pendulum, I haven't blogged it
[18:42] <czajkowski> jono: ahh ok, I'm 2 years and 3 months
[18:42] <jono> czajkowski, :-)
[18:42] <Pici> Ah, that would do it.
[18:42] <Pendulum> tbh, I'm still too drugged to be able to remember where it is that survey monkey does and doesn't falldown with screen readers, but I don't know any screen reader users who bother to even click survey monkey links due to the access issues
[18:42] <jono> Pendulum, I will blog it and offer for people to send me data if they can't use the surveymonkey interface
[18:43] <Pendulum> jono: awesome, thanks
[18:43]  * AlanBell will do the survey eyes free
[18:43] <jono> Pendulum, http://help.surveymonkey.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/2/~/our-surveys-are-508-compliant-and-accessible-by-users-with-disabilities.
[18:43] <nigelb> AlanBell: probably easier to try it on w3m?
[18:43] <AlanBell> what is w3m?
[18:44] <Pici> !info w3m
[18:44] <nigelb> AlanBell: terminal browser
[18:44] <Pici> hrm.
[18:44] <AlanBell> firefox + orca + monitor off button
[18:44] <nigelb> that's pro.
[18:44] <nigelb> :)
[18:45] <AlanBell> usefuly realistic imho
[18:45] <jono> it sounds like SM actually meets a11y needs
[18:46] <jono> "Surveys are available to anyone using screen reader software, limited to keyboards to enter responses, and anyone with vision impairments that require high-contrast themes."
[18:47] <Pendulum> jono: that's new within the last year
[18:47] <Pici> Pendulum: It says they were ...certified us as Section 508 compliant on June 5, 2008.
[18:48] <jono> Pendulum, it was confirmed in 2008
[18:48] <Pendulum> Pici: we tested and researched a year ago and found current things at the time saying it wasn't accessible
[18:48] <jono> Pendulum, I assume you didn't see the notice about this
[18:48] <Pici> Pendulum: /me shrugs
[18:48] <jono> as such, I am not going to blog it - it seems the survey should be accessible as is
[18:48] <jono> my survey meets the guidelines
[18:48] <Pendulum> okay
[18:48] <jono> brb, grabbing some lunch
[18:49]  * Pendulum shrugs
[18:49] <Pendulum> I'm positive that wasn't on the website a year ago so dunno what's changed
[18:50] <Pendulum> but if it works, great.
[18:51] <jono> :-)
[19:01] <nigelb> paultag: I'm sure you've already seen this, but if not, http://www.islinuxaboutchoice.com/
[19:02] <nigelb> You'll love it
[19:02] <Pici> meh
[19:02] <paultag> ouch
[19:03] <paultag> GNU/Linux is about choice, that's some RMS bullshit :)
[19:03] <paultag> nigelb: I giggled, but I'm so sick of that argument these days :)
[19:04] <nigelb> paultag: lol, yeah.
[19:04] <AlanBell> Pendulum: we used a wordpress based survey tool because we knew it was simple HTML and presented alternate ways to provide the information, I don't recall considering surveymonkey for long at that time
[19:04] <nigelb> paultag: similar thing on firefox channel today - "How do I get it to work on GNU/Linux?" "Knock off the GNU/"
[19:04] <AlanBell> the other case was more recently in loco-contacts where the objection to survey monkey was around it not being free software
[19:04] <paultag> nigelb: yeah :)
[19:05] <AlanBell> which is why I put up a limesurvey instance which has yet to be used
[19:05] <nigelb> AlanBell: translation too.
[19:05] <pleia2> that site seems to have two very different points
[19:05] <AlanBell> that too
[19:06] <AlanBell> I am finding the radio buttons in surveymonkey very confusing with orca, I will try a limesurvey with radio buttons, it could just be me failing to use orca correctly
[19:33] <jcastro> limesurvey totally flunked the security team's tests.
[19:33] <nigelb> jcastro: ping
[19:33] <jcastro> pong
[19:34] <nigelb> jcastro: got time for a few mins of PM? :)
[19:34] <jcastro> yeah
[19:34] <AlanBell> jcastro: hope they filed bugs
[19:34] <AlanBell> but yeah, not massively surprised at a PHP app with security problems
[19:41] <m4n1sh> jono: ping
[19:41] <jono> hey m4n1sh
[19:41] <m4n1sh> the survey has Asia and Oceania as separate and EMEA is missing
[19:41] <m4n1sh> jono: I applied via EMEA, but it is not in the list
[19:42] <nigelb> m4n1sh: what's on the list?
[19:42] <nigelb> (I momentarily forget)
[19:42] <m4n1sh> Americas, Asia and Oceania
[19:42] <jono> m4n1sh, oops
[19:42] <m4n1sh> and an Another textbox
[19:42] <jono> let me see if I can add it
[19:43] <rrnwexec> help: the loco director ate 6 global jam events, including Vancouver's. thoughts?
[19:43] <rrnwexec> *directory
[19:43] <m4n1sh> nigelb: hey. long time :)
[19:43] <jono> m4n1sh, added
[19:43] <m4n1sh> great
[19:43] <nigelb> m4n1sh: hello
[19:44] <m4n1sh> nigelb: anything special these days?
[19:44] <m4n1sh> doing something kickass? Apart from summit?
[19:45] <nigelb> m4n1sh: doing a bit of stuff on mozilla webdev
[19:45] <m4n1sh> you keep dabbling around with various things
[19:45] <m4n1sh> nigelb: so mostly web work?
[19:45] <nigelb> yeah, web. django.
[19:46] <m4n1sh> ah cool
[19:46] <nigelb> I'm just doing a *lot* of webdev lately - summit, launchpad, mozilla webdev projects
[19:46] <m4n1sh> django is the only python web framework I know
[19:46] <m4n1sh> I love launchpad
[19:46] <m4n1sh> esp I know the API pretty well
[19:46] <m4n1sh> I mean the raw REST API
[19:48] <nigelb> well, once you start writing Zope code, you may not love launchpad any more ;)
[20:02]  * popey wonders what the content of the survey in question is
[20:06] <popey> jono: what's in the survey?
[20:06] <AlanBell> http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.aspx?sm=EgGTTDiE0HLhOMm2cpp1dw_3d_3d
[20:07] <popey> thanks
[20:23]  * AlanBell completes the process, but not with orca. I couldn't figure out what radio button values I was on, and change them - even with the screen on it didn't make much more sense