cjohnstonbdmurray: ping00:20
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* sbeattie waves17:06
jdstrandlet's get started17:07
meetingologyMeeting started Mon Aug 15 17:07:09 2011 UTC.  The chair is jdstrand. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.17:07
meetingologyUseful Commands: #topic #action #link #idea #voters #vote #chair #action #agreed #help #info #endmeeting.17:07
jdstrandThe meeting agenda can be found at:17:07
jdstrand[LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting17:07
jdstrand[TOPIC] Review of any previous action items17:07
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Review of any previous action items
meetingologyTOPIC: Review of any previous action items17:07
jdstrandhuh, that's new17:07
jdstrandmeetingology: hello17:07
meetingologyjdstrand: Error: "hello" is not a valid command.17:07
jdstrandseems we don't have any ACTION items from last week, so moving on17:08
jdstrand[TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report17:08
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
meetingologyTOPIC: Weekly stand-up report17:08
jdstrandI'll go first17:08
jdstrandso, I am back after my tour of the southern US17:08
jdstrandas such, I am dealing with quite a bit of backlog (email, et al)17:09
jdstrandin addition to that, I have some dbus/apparmor stuff to get back to17:09
jdstrand(sorry I didn't get dbus uploaded before FF)17:09
jdstrandI saw a few Oneiric apparmor profile bugs come in, so I'll fix those17:10
jdstrandand then a bunch of archive admin catch-up17:10
jdstrandI may pick up an update, but have a feeling I will not get to it17:10
jdstrandthat's it from me17:10
jdstrandkees: you're up17:10
keesokay, I'm on triage17:11
keesand since I didn't get much triage done last week, this week will have more! :)17:11
keesthe kernel bug sync tools are in good shape now; they implement everything apw and I have identified as needing to be implemented.17:11
jdstrandkees: nice!17:11
keesbut I'll continue to keep an eye on it for tweaks. after that, I seriously need to get a handle on my work items17:12
keesthe graphing stuff just keeps slipping17:12
keesin other news, kvm is now PIE17:12
blisswhy bother, nobody would waste their time writing a kvm exploit17:12
keesbliss: your join and that comment were perfectly timed!17:13
* bliss bows17:13
keesanyway, that's it from me. mdeslaur is up!17:13
jdstrandre kvm> woohoo17:13
blisswhen will ax25d be PIE?17:13
* mdeslaur points troll finger at bliss17:13
mdeslaurso, I justpublished two updates17:13
mdeslaurand I _still_ have foomatic to test17:14
mdeslaurI'm currently working on some new stuff for vm-new17:14
mdeslaurand will also go down the list17:14
mdeslaurthat's it from me17:14
mdeslaursbeattie: you're up17:14
kees(oh, did a ton of MIR work last week. there is still more to do...)17:14
sbeattieI'm still wading through email after having most of last week off.17:14
sbeattieI'm on community this week.17:15
sbeattieand I have two days of holiday at the end of this week.17:15
sbeattieI also need to untangle my work items and do more stuff on the apparmor front.17:15
sbeattiethat's pretty much it for me.17:16
sbeattiemicahg: over to you17:16
micahgshould be publishing a long overdue webkit update today17:16
micahgon track to release Firefox and Thunderbird tomorrow with upstream17:16
jdstrandmicahg: awesome :)17:17
micahgwhen that's all done, the last chromium update broke html5 on maverick and natty, so I've held off on publishing17:17
jdstrandmicahg: is upstream aware of it?17:17
micahgidk, I tried to ask in their support channel yesterday w/no response, will try later today17:18
micahgweekend is understandable :)17:18
micahglater this week, I need to discuss with pitti about Maverick migrating to Firefox 6 w/the final langpack update17:19
micahgI'd like to have 6 go through proposed/updates, then 7 will go through -security17:20
jdstrandmicahg: does that mean lucid will get firefox 6 soon?17:20
micahgjdstrand: not necessarily, I'm still waiting on upstream's plans for 3.6.x EOL17:20
jdstrandmakes sense17:20
jdstrandthough, since maverick and lucid have the same release, I wonder if it is worth the effort there17:21
micahgthis is driven by the end of langpack updates for maverick which is needed for the rapid release migration17:21
jdstrand(ie, on maverick)17:21
micahgso, that's it for me17:22
jdstrand[TOPIC] Highlighted packages17:22
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
meetingologyTOPIC: Highlighted packages17:22
jdstrandThe Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security.17:23
jdstrand[TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions17:23
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
meetingologyTOPIC: Miscellaneous and Questions17:23
jdstrandDoes anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?17:23
* bliss cheers for acceptance of patch that prevents missing setuid return code checks from being root holes17:25
mdeslaurbliss: where?17:25
jdstrandoh, neat17:25
jdstrandwhere is that?17:25
blissupstream kernel, let me find link17:25
keesbliss: is this segoon's work?17:27
keesoh! excellent.17:28
jdstrandanything else?17:30
blissi guess stealth will have to find a new vuln class to root android kernels with17:30
jdstrandalrighty then17:31
jdstrandthanks everyone!17:31
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology is the new Mootbot https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot
meetingologyMeeting ended Mon Aug 15 17:31:57 2011 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot . (v 0.1.4)17:31
meetingologyMinutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-08-15-17.07.moin.txt17:31
keesthanks jdstrand!17:32
blissthanks guys, keep up the good work :-)17:32
bliss<< ubuntu security cheerleader17:32
mdeslaurthanks jdstrand!17:34
AlanBelljdstrand: bot and minutes work OK for you?18:23
Laneyright, dmb?19:00
smoserLaney, I hope so.19:00
LaneyWe have had several apologies on email19:00
Laneybut I hope that we can still meet and if necessary carry out any supplementary voting on list19:01
iamfuzzLaney, +1 to that19:01
Laneygeser: persia19:01
* geser is here19:02
iamfuzz4am for persia so I'm doubting even he is awake at that hour19:03
Laneygeser: shall we?19:03
geserLaney: you mean do the questioning and vote per mail?19:04
gesersure, can you chair?19:05
meetingologyMeeting started Mon Aug 15 19:06:06 2011 UTC.  The chair is Laney. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.19:06
meetingologyUseful Commands: #topic #action #link #idea #voters #vote #chair #action #agreed #help #info #endmeeting.19:06
LaneyI think it's best to skip "Rename UCD/UUC to Ubuntu Development Members" until there are more people around to discuss it19:06
Laneyit arose from a conversation on -devel about UCD being confusing19:07
Laneyor we can bring it up on devel-permissions19:07
Laneyiamfuzz smoser cnd: you ready?19:08
* iamfuzz is ready19:08
cndI am19:08
smoserI am ready19:08
geserLaney: I agress to move it to the next meeting, a discussion about a more clear name could be done on devel-permissions and/or ubuntu-devel19:08
Laneyok great19:08
Laneyalright, so we're going to do the 'interview' stage today and then defer voting to email19:08
iamfuzzsounds good19:08
Laneysince 3 members are away/travelling and 1 has resigned19:08
iamfuzz:-( indeed19:09
Laney[topic] MOTU Application for Brian Thomason19:09
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: MOTU Application for Brian Thomason
meetingologyTOPIC: MOTU Application for Brian Thomason19:09
Laneyhey iamfuzz :-) can you quickly introduce yourself?19:09
iamfuzzSure, I'm Brian Thomason, and I've been doing packaging work professionally for about 9 years19:09
iamfuzzI started with Lindows/Linspire, and joined Canonical a little over 4 years ago19:10
iamfuzzI've been doing work in Universe for about 2 years now19:10
iamfuzzand currently maintain all packages in the Canonical partner repo, and all For Purchase apps in the software center, along with 5-10 packages in universe19:10
iamfuzzand for the record, this is my second MOTU application19:11
Laneyhow do you think packaging for partner differs from packaging in the main archive?19:11
iamfuzzquite differently in most cases19:11
Laneydo you stick to the standard Ubuntu release cycle?19:11
iamfuzzno, not at all19:12
iamfuzzwe are at the whim of the ISV in most cases19:12
iamfuzzwe transition packages starting at Beta 1, and attempt to have them all migrated before RC119:12
geseriamfuzz: you mentioned in your wiki page that also some free software is in the partner archive. is there a reason why it's in the partner archive and not the main repository?19:12
iamfuzzHowever, Partner is always open and doesn't have the concept of pockets, such as -updates or -security19:12
iamfuzzgeser, yes, the free software that resides there is Openbravo, Alfresco, and Jonas19:13
iamfuzzThese ship many binary jars19:13
iamfuzzrather than using those provided in the archive or even compiling them from source at build time19:13
geserah, the usual java trouble19:13
iamfuzzthis has prevented their transition to universe19:13
iamfuzzmost vendors refuse to do so as they wish to certify one build, rather than, in their minds, an additonal "Ubuntu" build19:14
Laneydo you think it would be beneficial for these projects to work out the problems to get themselves into debian / ubuntu? or would it be more trouble than it's worth?19:14
iamfuzzwith potential moving pieces (the JAR deps)19:14
Laneycould they not go into multiverse?19:14
* Laney finds this quite interesting19:14
iamfuzzLaney, in the case of Alfesco, probably more trouble than it's worth19:15
iamfuzz100+ jars at last count19:15
iamfuzzthough as the Java library in Ubuntu grows, it becomes more feasible19:15
iamfuzzfor Openbravo, yes, they likely would benefit and we speak with them about this every 6 months but have not as of yet gotten the go ahead19:15
iamfuzzas for Multiverse, it likely could19:15
iamfuzzbut they see no benefit there as it isn't enabled by default on most server installs either19:16
geserI guess part of the problem is that jars don't have proper versioning (API/ABI)19:16
iamfuzzand they enjoy the lax rules of Partner19:16
iamfuzzas well as a commercial relationship19:16
iamfuzzas well as the fact that they patch many of them to their liking19:16
geserwhat are the main differences between the partner repository and the main one? just the relaxed rules?19:17
iamfuzzrelaxed rules, no pockets, always open19:17
iamfuzzand the only license criteria that need be met is a distribution agreement with Canonical19:17
iamfuzzthat being said, with the relaxed rules, we do our best to make the packages as presentable as possible19:18
LaneyI suppose for upstreams it gives them a guarantee hat their software will become available19:18
iamfuzzbut it isn't always easy with the binary blobs of goodness we receive :-)19:18
iamfuzzcorrect, and the warm and fuzzies that they are a "Partner" of Canonical19:18
Laneyanyway, to Ubuntu Development. (my standard question) Have you worked with Debian at all? For example forwarding patches19:19
iamfuzzyes, not a ton, but yes19:19
iamfuzzI worked with Debian to fix the gstreamer-plugins-bad package to not improperly collide with our packages19:20
iamfuzzI've reported many bugs19:20
iamfuzzand submitted a patch to lintian once19:20
iamfuzzam in the process of working on a lintian profile that affects Partner packages19:20
Laneyah, excellent19:20
Laneythat's a good development in lintian upstream19:20
iamfuzzI've also worked fairly closely with their java maintainer as he assists with our building of them for partner19:20
Laneyfinally from me, you mention problems with the release cycle's length as a weakness in Ubuntu19:23
Laneywhat do yo uthink could be done about that?19:23
iamfuzzI'm not sure there can be much done19:23
iamfuzzI commented on that only because I came from a distribution that released ~every 2 years19:23
iamfuzzwhich gave ample time for thorough bug testing and the like19:23
=== med_out is now known as medberry
Laneyemphasise the LTS releases more over the others?19:24
iamfuzzand more importantly in my role, it affects ISV package migrations19:24
iamfuzzthe IBMs of the world are slow to move19:24
iamfuzzYes, in that realm we do19:24
iamfuzzif it's a "server" related package, we almost insist on their following the LTS cycle19:24
iamfuzzwhich has proven helpful19:24
LaneyI'm sure you know well all of the possible upgrade paths that you have to support19:24
iamfuzzbut the desktop-oriented offerings obviously have to be transitioned each release19:24
Laneygeser: any qs?19:25
geserno, just want to mention that I like to see that many testimonials on iamfuzz's application19:25
iamfuzzindeed, i had much help along the way19:25
iamfuzzthanks to all 4 of my mentors :-)19:26
Laneyyes, they are very strong19:26
Laneygood work :-)19:26
Laneygeser: shall we vote now or would you prefer all votes on email?19:26
geserlike you like, I send sent my +1 now or with mail19:26
Laneylet's vote now, to save some email traffic19:27
Laney[vote] Brian Thomason to join MOTU19:27
meetingologyPlease vote on: Brian Thomason to join MOTU19:27
meetingologyPublic votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)19:27
Laneyerm, what does that mean?19:27
meetingology+1 received from Laney19:27
meetingology+1 received from geser19:27
Laneymeans I can't hit the 1 correctly :P19:27
meetingologyVoting ended on: Brian Thomason to join MOTU19:28
meetingologyVotes for:2 Votes against:0 Abstentions:019:28
meetingologyMotion carried19:28
Laneythanks a lot iamfuzz, watch devel-permissions for more :>19:28
iamfuzzthanks guys, I very much appreciate your taking the time for the interview despite lack of quorum19:28
Laneyyeah, sorry about that …19:28
iamfuzzit happens19:28
iamfuzzI seem to be a bad omen too19:28
iamfuzzhas happened 4 times to me :-)19:28
Laneypeople seem to be travelling a lot currently19:29
Laneyah well19:29
iamfuzzthat time of year19:29
Laneysmoser: here?19:29
Laney[topic] Ubuntu Core Developer Application for Scott Moser19:30
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Core Developer Application for Scott Moser
meetingologyTOPIC: Ubuntu Core Developer Application for Scott Moser19:30
smoserI'm Scott Moser, I've been contributing to Ubuntu development for the past 2 years.  For the majority of that time, I've been the responsible party for creating and releasing the official Ubuntu Cloud Images (UEC), which are ready-to-run images targetted towards running in cloud platforms.  I've had PPU upload rights for a few packages for about a year, and have had several sponsored uploads across main, universe and multiverse.19:30
Laneycare to give us a quick introduction to yourself?19:30
smosermy application is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ScottMoser/DeveloperApplication19:30
Laney[link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ScottMoser/DeveloperApplication19:30
LaneyI notice that you're explicitly applying for server and MOTU as well. Any reason for that? (not that it's a problem :-)19:31
smoserThat was on advice of Daviey, but primarily the ubuntu-server-dev team is interested in boosting numbers to it.19:31
smoserand its membership approval is delegated here.19:32
smoserso 2 birds, one stone.19:32
smoseram I being waited on ? I just want to make sure I'm not holding anything up.  My introduction came before Laney asked for it above (just to make sure it was seen).19:35
gesertoo much to read in too little time19:36
Laneysmoser: sorry, connection dropped19:36
LaneyIt is my impression that Ubuntu's cloud offerings have been rather sucessful. Is this accurate? Have you been please with the way they ahve been received? :-)19:36
smoserwe have strong reason to believe that our images on EC2 are amoung the most popular to run.19:37
smoserI would say that that is most definitely the largest success we've had.  The other thing to point to for success as Ubuntu as a "cloud os" is in Openstack usage.19:38
smoserUbuntu is OpenStacks' reference platform, and our cloud-images are expected to work there, and used by many.19:38
geserdo the Ubuntu package need many changes to also work in the cloud image properly?19:38
smosermy largest head-butting with Ubuntu has been over grub.19:39
smoserthe images are interesting in that we include both grub2 and write/manage a /boot/grub/menu.lst19:39
Laneyhow much of an intersection is there between server and cloud? Is there ever a conflict there or are they complementary?19:39
smosergrub-pc is included so that they can work as a normal ubuntu installation, and we manage /boot/grub/menu.lst with grub-legacy-ec2 (which is read by the 'pv-grub' "bootloader" on eC2)19:40
smoseri think there is a fairly large intersection between "server" and "cloud"19:40
smoserboth ubuntu cloud host and cloud guest really are just package set selections.19:40
smoserand the packages that are improtant there rely heavily on functionality that is common to many ubuntu flavors19:41
smoserfrom the image perspective, we try to ship something that can easily and rapidly be provisioned into something that does what the user wants.19:42
LaneyI guess outside of the 'infrastructure' not much needs modifying19:42
smoserI dont think i follow that.19:43
smoserwhat did you mean by 'infrastructure' ?19:44
LaneyI am using infrastructure to refer to the packages needed to manage your cloud host or guest19:45
smoserwell, largely i have ot say "i don't know" to much of that.19:45
smoserwe certainly hope that people find the Ubuntu packages that are available in the archive to "just work".19:46
smoserbut we give them a nice base, and they're able to use whatever they want to accomplish their task.19:46
Laneygeser: any q?19:46
smoserie, I'm actually not aware if 5% or 95% use the mysql that is packaged.  they *could* all install from a binary build.19:47
geserLaney: ready to vote19:49
Laney[vote] Scott Moser to join core-dev, server-dev, MOTU19:50
meetingologyPlease vote on: Scott Moser to join core-dev, server-dev, MOTU19:50
meetingologyPublic votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)19:50
meetingology+1 received from geser19:50
Laney+1 // nice endorsements, and importently a nod to Debian in the application. Please continue to push for upstreaming of work wherever possible (Debian Cloud?)19:51
LaneyAlanBell: ^ make that work please ♥19:51
meetingology+1 received from Laney19:51
meetingologyVoting ended on: Scott Moser to join core-dev, server-dev, MOTU19:51
meetingologyVotes for:2 Votes against:0 Abstentions:019:51
meetingologyMotion carried19:51
Laneysmoser: we'll be in touch over email19:51
Laneythanks for turning up :-D19:51
Laneycnd: heya, you here?19:51
Laney[topic] Ubuntu Core Developer Application: Chase Douglas19:52
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Core Developer Application: Chase Douglas
meetingologyTOPIC: Ubuntu Core Developer Application: Chase Douglas19:52
Laneyquick intro? :>19:52
cndI'm one of the developers of the uTouch multitouch and gesture stack in Ubuntu19:53
cndlike much of the desktop-experience team at Canonical, we do a bunch of upstream development19:53
cndhowever, our team is a little unique19:53
cndwe enjoy ubuntu development too :)19:53
cndso we end up maintaining our own packages19:53
cndso we do all kinds of development19:54
* Laney likes the sound of that19:54
Laneydid you write the packaging for your software?19:54
cndfor most of it, yes19:54
cndour team did19:54
cndspecifically, I have packaged utouch-qml, utouch-gesturetest, and I have maintained packaging for all our stuff19:54
cndI also have touched many packages throughout the stack19:54
cndI started in the kernel team before utouch19:55
cndso I have been involved there19:55
cndand I still write patches that go upstream and then trickle back into ubuntu19:55
LaneyI see you maintain a package in Debian. Do you think that works well?19:55
cndtbh, I don't know too much19:55
cndI wrote the package19:55
cndand I have stats that show many people use it19:55
Laneyyou haven't had the pleasure of a bug report yet? :-)19:56
cndbut after a few bug reports initially I haven't heard anything since19:56
cndso no news is good news I guess :)19:56
Laneywell, that's a good sign19:56
cndI also have worked with debian in other areas19:56
Laneyit's not causing you much trouble19:56
cndI helped merge changes into pm-utils19:56
cndand I have worked with the ubuntu and debian x teams19:57
Laneyis the utouch stuff going to go to debian?19:57
cndI'm the author of extensive X patches in ubuntu that we are hoping to get upstream into x.org19:57
Laneyhas anyone expressed interest there?19:57
cndwhere it will be slurped into all the distros19:57
Laneyor any other distro, for that matter19:57
cndyes, we have interest from debian, and gentoo, and pretty much everyone :)19:57
cndright now we have a prototype multitouch XInput extension in our server19:57
cndwhich has been a proving ground of sorts19:57
cndand we hope to have it officially available from upstream by the time 12.04 LTS ships19:58
cndso we don't have a huge patch to maintain there19:58
Laneythat would be great19:58
cndit would also expand the reach of utouch since it's dependent on the patches19:59
cndwhich no one else really wants to ship in their distro19:59
cndand I don't blame them :)19:59
cndthe stuff needs to get upstream19:59
LaneyI see one of your endorsers is someone you have mentored!20:00
Laneythat is a bit unusual - how did you find that experience?20:00
Laneysomething you'd like to carry on if you are approved? :-)20:00
Laney(perhaps by hanging out in #ubuntu-motu, yes yes yes?)20:00
cndcertainly, it's one of th reasons I am coming here20:00
cndI find it hard to participate in things like patch pilot20:01
cndthere are things one can do without upload rights20:01
cndbut many more things can be done with them to move things along faster20:01
Laneyone of the goals of patch pilot was to /not/ require upload rights20:01
cndI'm not sure that's been a success then...20:01
cndit's true that it doesn't require it20:01
Laneyi'd be interested in working with ways to make the stints more productive if you don't think that has worked20:01
cndbut I feel I don't accomplish much without it20:01
cndI like to take tasks and see them to completion20:02
cndI find that helps me make sure things are done20:02
cndthe more things are handed off from one person to another, the less likely it will really reach the finish line20:02
LaneyI agree the nature of the work would have to be rather different (not direct sponsorship), but I'm sure we can find ways for people to be helpful even if they can't do the eventual sponsorship20:03
cndI suppose I shouldn't have been so negative when I said it's not been a success20:03
cndI feel I can do more20:03
cndand that's one reason I'm here20:03
Laneyno no I kind of foresaw this as something that might happen when we were devising the scheme20:03
cndI think the program is reasonable20:03
cndit just works better with upload rights20:04
LaneyI don't want non-uploaders to feel like they aren't helping20:04
micahgthere are 2k patches in Ubuntu that need a guiding hand20:04
cndI'm not sure I have any good ideas off the top of my head on how to fix that20:04
Laneyfor example there is that ^ scheme that I forgot the name of20:04
Laneyoperation cleansweep20:04
broderoperation cleansweep20:04
Laneyanyway, let's speak with dholbach about this another time20:05
Laneygeser: q?20:05
broderit's probably worth pulling barry or poolie or someone else from the bzr team into the discussion, since that was the inspiration for the patch pilot stuff20:05
Laneybroder: indeed20:06
Laneyit'll be the patch pilot first anniversary at florida this year, perhaps we can review it then20:06
Laneynot that I know if I'll be there yet20:06
Laneycnd: finally, there is a DMB seat going if you are interested. Regarding the recent thread(s), I apologise for our failings and hope we can work to improve the process :-)20:08
Laneyparticularly, I'm concerned that you didn't feel able to apply before now and how we can fix that20:08
cndLaney, heh, I've been thinking very long and hard about that, tbh20:08
cndLaney, I was hoping it was less than a 2 year commitment20:08
cndI have ideas on how to make things better20:09
cndI'm caught because I'm not on the board20:09
cndand I don't want the board to feel like I'm usurping their role or anything20:09
Laneywell, you can get a mandate for your changes20:09
cndbut I also am not sure I can personally commit to being on the board20:09
Laneyyeah. I understand.20:10
cndI'm taking a bit of a break just to reassess20:10
cndand I don't want to cause harm, even though none is ever intended20:10
Laneythings always look different from the other side of the fence, unfortunately20:11
cndI felt the conversation had some good effects, such as helping me understand what it's like for some board members20:11
Laneypersonally I think that we have a perception problem, and the reality isn't all that bad20:11
cndI agree, I think some small tweaks could help20:11
Laneyperhaps you can present your improvements to the board at an IRC meeting when they become formed?20:12
Laneythen take them more public after that20:12
Laneyto the vote machine!20:13
Laney[vote] Chase Douglas to join ~ubuntu-core-dev20:13
meetingologyPlease vote on: Chase Douglas to join ~ubuntu-core-dev20:13
meetingologyPublic votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)20:13
meetingology+1 received from Laney20:13
meetingology+1 received from geser20:13
Laneystrong testimonials, good previous work. rock & roll :-)20:13
Laneythanks chase!20:13
meetingologyVoting ended on: Chase Douglas to join ~ubuntu-core-dev20:13
meetingologyVotes for:2 Votes against:0 Abstentions:020:13
meetingologyMotion carried20:13
Laneywill be in touch over email as well, sorry about the quorumness (that is one of our biggest problems imho)20:14
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology is the new Mootbot https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot
meetingologyMeeting ended Mon Aug 15 20:14:13 2011 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot . (v 0.1.4)20:14
meetingologyMinutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-08-15-19.06.moin.txt20:14
cndyeah, it's hard over irc20:14
cndwith a world wide board20:14
micahgI just wanted to point out for people following on IRC that core-dev has an implicit membership in MOTU20:15
LaneyThe explicit membership is seen as more of a 'social' thing20:15
Laneyi.e. it makes you more part of the team's community20:15
tumbleweedre operation cleansweep. We considered the idea of putting some of them on the sponsorship queue, but I'm not too sure how that would work20:16
micahgLaney: you get the same badge on your LP page...what makes one more part of the community is participation in that community IMHO20:16
cndLaney, I forgot to ask one thing20:16
cnda simple addition of a package to a package set20:16
cndI can email the request if that's easier?20:16
micahgtumbleweed: the pilots w/out upload rights could prepare those, that's what I was implying20:17
gesercnd: is the package covered by an approved package set?20:17
tumbleweedmicahg: sounds like that would be best done in a separate queue?20:17
cndgeser, what do you mean by that?20:17
cndthe package is utouch-qml20:17
micahgtumbleweed: well, there's an LP query for that I think20:17
cndit's in universe and it should be added to the utouch package set20:17
cndit's new as of a week or two ago20:18
tumbleweedmicahg: yeah, either people aren't picking them off, or we've already solved the problem20:18
gesercnd: got the package set approved by a wildcard (like utouch-*) or an explicit package list?20:18
cndgeser, I assume package list20:18
micahgtumbleweed: crimsun has been picking them off :)20:18
cndif so, it should be wildcard utouch-*20:18
cndI didn't realize that was possible20:19
LaneyI don't think we need to be excessively bureaucratic if it was essentially all utouch packages20:19
cndI know I can't upload to it, and I have upload rights to the package set20:19
micahgpackage sets can't have wildcards AFAIK20:19
Laneynot officially20:20
gesercnd: there is not much documentation about how package sets can get requested. Add it to the agenda for the next meeeting and once approved it eases the maintainance (as long as the package meets the approved wildcard no meeting is needed to add it to the package set).20:20
micahgapprovals can have wildcards :)20:20
Laneywhat is the package?20:20
cndLaney, utouch-qml20:21
cndso I need to add an agenda item to request that all utouch-* packages be approved for the utouch package set?20:21
LaneyIMHO we could infer that approval from the DMB's original decision20:22
cndI believe that's how it has happened in the past20:23
cndI can't remember exactly20:23
gesercnd: yes, afaik there is no policy about how package sets are managed, so I prefer it to have a vote on it (but it can be a wildcard)20:23
Laneyadded it20:23
cndbut I remember asking to have a package added to a package set once before (they seem to line up in time with my personal applications)20:23
cndand someone just added it20:23
cndthanks Laney :)20:23
Laneyit was pretty explicitly created as a 'utouch package set'20:23
geserLaney: just for the record: no objection from me20:24
cndok, back to my vacation day :)20:24
cndthanks all!20:24
AlanBellLaney: yeah, will do, known bug20:25
AlanBellLaney: seen the [voters] command20:25
Laneyno, what is that?20:27
LaneyAlanBell: aha20:28
Laneythat bug is even in the documentation, nice20:28
AlanBellyou can give it a list of authorised voters20:29
AlanBellso #voters Laney geser20:29
AlanBellwould make it only listen to votes from the board20:29
AlanBelland you can #chair someone else if you want to20:30
AlanBellor a list of people for that matter20:30
* ajmitch thinks having a list of approved voters for a meeting will be rather useful20:34
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