[00:20] <cjohnston> bdmurray: ping
[17:05] <jdstrand> hello
[17:05] <micahg> \o
[17:06]  * sbeattie waves
[17:06] <mdeslaur> hello
[17:07] <jdstrand> let's get started
[17:07] <jdstrand> #startmeeting
[17:07] <meetingology> Meeting started Mon Aug 15 17:07:09 2011 UTC.  The chair is jdstrand. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
[17:07] <meetingology> Useful Commands: #topic #action #link #idea #voters #vote #chair #action #agreed #help #info #endmeeting.
[17:07] <jdstrand> The meeting agenda can be found at:
[17:07] <jdstrand> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
[17:07] <jdstrand> [TOPIC] Review of any previous action items
[17:07] <meetingology> TOPIC: Review of any previous action items
[17:07] <jdstrand> huh, that's new
[17:07] <kees> yeah
[17:07] <jdstrand> meetingology: hello
[17:07] <meetingology> jdstrand: Error: "hello" is not a valid command.
[17:08] <jdstrand> anyhoo
[17:08] <jdstrand> seems we don't have any ACTION items from last week, so moving on
[17:08] <jdstrand> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
[17:08] <meetingology> TOPIC: Weekly stand-up report
[17:08] <jdstrand> I'll go first
[17:08] <jdstrand> so, I am back after my tour of the southern US
[17:09] <jdstrand> as such, I am dealing with quite a bit of backlog (email, et al)
[17:09] <jdstrand> in addition to that, I have some dbus/apparmor stuff to get back to
[17:09] <jdstrand> (sorry I didn't get dbus uploaded before FF)
[17:10] <jdstrand> I saw a few Oneiric apparmor profile bugs come in, so I'll fix those
[17:10] <jdstrand> and then a bunch of archive admin catch-up
[17:10] <jdstrand> I may pick up an update, but have a feeling I will not get to it
[17:10] <jdstrand> that's it from me
[17:10] <jdstrand> kees: you're up
[17:11] <kees> okay, I'm on triage
[17:11] <kees> and since I didn't get much triage done last week, this week will have more! :)
[17:11] <kees> the kernel bug sync tools are in good shape now; they implement everything apw and I have identified as needing to be implemented.
[17:11] <jdstrand> kees: nice!
[17:12] <kees> but I'll continue to keep an eye on it for tweaks. after that, I seriously need to get a handle on my work items
[17:12] <kees> the graphing stuff just keeps slipping
[17:12] <kees> in other news, kvm is now PIE
[17:12] <bliss> why bother, nobody would waste their time writing a kvm exploit
[17:13] <kees> bliss: your join and that comment were perfectly timed!
[17:13]  * bliss bows
[17:13] <kees> anyway, that's it from me. mdeslaur is up!
[17:13] <jdstrand> re kvm> woohoo
[17:13] <mdeslaur> hiya!
[17:13] <jdstrand> :)
[17:13] <bliss> when will ax25d be PIE?
[17:13]  * mdeslaur points troll finger at bliss
[17:13] <mdeslaur> so, I justpublished two updates
[17:14] <mdeslaur> and I _still_ have foomatic to test
[17:14] <mdeslaur> I'm currently working on some new stuff for vm-new
[17:14] <mdeslaur> and will also go down the list
[17:14] <mdeslaur> that's it from me
[17:14] <mdeslaur> sbeattie: you're up
[17:14] <kees> (oh, did a ton of MIR work last week. there is still more to do...)
[17:14] <sbeattie> I'm still wading through email after having most of last week off.
[17:15] <sbeattie> I'm on community this week.
[17:15] <sbeattie> and I have two days of holiday at the end of this week.
[17:15] <sbeattie> I also need to untangle my work items and do more stuff on the apparmor front.
[17:16] <sbeattie> that's pretty much it for me.
[17:16] <sbeattie> micahg: over to you
[17:16] <micahg> should be publishing a long overdue webkit update today
[17:16] <sbeattie> \o/
[17:16] <jdstrand> \o/
[17:16] <micahg> on track to release Firefox and Thunderbird tomorrow with upstream
[17:17] <mdeslaur> \o/
[17:17] <jdstrand> micahg: awesome :)
[17:17] <micahg> when that's all done, the last chromium update broke html5 on maverick and natty, so I've held off on publishing
[17:17] <jdstrand> micahg: is upstream aware of it?
[17:18] <micahg> idk, I tried to ask in their support channel yesterday w/no response, will try later today
[17:18] <jdstrand> grr..
[17:18] <micahg> weekend is understandable :)
[17:19] <micahg> later this week, I need to discuss with pitti about Maverick migrating to Firefox 6 w/the final langpack update
[17:20] <micahg> I'd like to have 6 go through proposed/updates, then 7 will go through -security
[17:20] <jdstrand> micahg: does that mean lucid will get firefox 6 soon?
[17:20] <micahg> jdstrand: not necessarily, I'm still waiting on upstream's plans for 3.6.x EOL
[17:20] <jdstrand> makes sense
[17:21] <jdstrand> though, since maverick and lucid have the same release, I wonder if it is worth the effort there
[17:21] <micahg> this is driven by the end of langpack updates for maverick which is needed for the rapid release migration
[17:21] <jdstrand> (ie, on maverick)
[17:21] <jdstrand> ah
[17:22] <micahg> so, that's it for me
[17:22] <jdstrand> thanks
[17:22] <jdstrand> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
[17:22] <meetingology> TOPIC: Highlighted packages
[17:23] <jdstrand> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security.
[17:23] <jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/kolab-cyrus-imapd.html
[17:23] <jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/audacity.html
[17:23] <jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/neon26.html
[17:23] <jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/xymon.html
[17:23] <jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/monkeysphere.html
[17:23] <jdstrand> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
[17:23] <meetingology> TOPIC: Miscellaneous and Questions
[17:23] <jdstrand> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
[17:25]  * bliss cheers for acceptance of patch that prevents missing setuid return code checks from being root holes
[17:25] <mdeslaur> bliss: where?
[17:25] <jdstrand> oh, neat
[17:25] <jdstrand> where is that?
[17:25] <bliss> upstream kernel, let me find link
[17:26] <sbeattie> cool!
[17:27] <kees> bliss: is this segoon's work?
[17:27] <bliss> yeah
[17:27] <bliss> http://git.kernel.org/?p=linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git;a=commit;h=72fa59970f8698023045ab0713d66f3f4f96945c
[17:28] <kees> oh! excellent.
[17:29] <mdeslaur> nice
[17:29] <jdstrand> rockin'
[17:30] <jdstrand> anything else?
[17:30] <bliss> i guess stealth will have to find a new vuln class to root android kernels with
[17:30] <kees> heh
[17:31] <jdstrand> alrighty then
[17:31] <jdstrand> thanks everyone!
[17:31] <jdstrand> #endmeeting
[17:31] <meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Aug 15 17:31:57 2011 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot . (v 0.1.4)
[17:31] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-08-15-17.07.moin.txt
[17:32] <kees> thanks jdstrand!
[17:32] <bliss> thanks guys, keep up the good work :-)
[17:32] <bliss> << ubuntu security cheerleader
[17:32] <jdstrand> \o/
[17:32] <jdstrand> :)
[17:34] <mdeslaur> thanks jdstrand!
[18:23] <AlanBell> jdstrand: bot and minutes work OK for you?
[19:00] <Laney> right, dmb?
[19:00] <smoser> Laney, I hope so.
[19:00] <Laney> We have had several apologies on email
[19:01] <Laney> but I hope that we can still meet and if necessary carry out any supplementary voting on list
[19:01] <iamfuzz> Laney, +1 to that
[19:01] <iamfuzz> :-)
[19:01] <Laney> geser: persia
[19:02]  * geser is here
[19:03] <iamfuzz> 4am for persia so I'm doubting even he is awake at that hour
[19:03] <Laney> geser: shall we?
[19:04] <geser> Laney: you mean do the questioning and vote per mail?
[19:04] <Laney> yes
[19:05] <geser> sure, can you chair?
[19:05] <Laney> yep
[19:06] <Laney> #startmeeting
[19:06] <meetingology> Meeting started Mon Aug 15 19:06:06 2011 UTC.  The chair is Laney. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
[19:06] <meetingology> Useful Commands: #topic #action #link #idea #voters #vote #chair #action #agreed #help #info #endmeeting.
[19:06] <Laney> I think it's best to skip "Rename UCD/UUC to Ubuntu Development Members" until there are more people around to discuss it
[19:07] <Laney> it arose from a conversation on -devel about UCD being confusing
[19:07] <Laney> or we can bring it up on devel-permissions
[19:08] <Laney> iamfuzz smoser cnd: you ready?
[19:08]  * iamfuzz is ready
[19:08] <cnd> I am
[19:08] <smoser> I am ready
[19:08] <geser> Laney: I agress to move it to the next meeting, a discussion about a more clear name could be done on devel-permissions and/or ubuntu-devel
[19:08] <Laney> ok great
[19:08] <Laney> alright, so we're going to do the 'interview' stage today and then defer voting to email
[19:08] <iamfuzz> sounds good
[19:08] <Laney> since 3 members are away/travelling and 1 has resigned
[19:09] <Laney> (:()
[19:09] <iamfuzz> :-( indeed
[19:09] <Laney> [topic] MOTU Application for Brian Thomason
[19:09] <meetingology> TOPIC: MOTU Application for Brian Thomason
[19:09] <Laney> hey iamfuzz :-) can you quickly introduce yourself?
[19:09] <iamfuzz> Sure, I'm Brian Thomason, and I've been doing packaging work professionally for about 9 years
[19:10] <iamfuzz> I started with Lindows/Linspire, and joined Canonical a little over 4 years ago
[19:10] <iamfuzz> I've been doing work in Universe for about 2 years now
[19:10] <iamfuzz> and currently maintain all packages in the Canonical partner repo, and all For Purchase apps in the software center, along with 5-10 packages in universe
[19:11] <iamfuzz> and for the record, this is my second MOTU application
[19:11] <Laney> :-)
[19:11] <Laney> how do you think packaging for partner differs from packaging in the main archive?
[19:11] <iamfuzz> quite differently in most cases
[19:11] <Laney> do you stick to the standard Ubuntu release cycle?
[19:12] <iamfuzz> no, not at all
[19:12] <iamfuzz> we are at the whim of the ISV in most cases
[19:12] <iamfuzz> we transition packages starting at Beta 1, and attempt to have them all migrated before RC1
[19:12] <geser> iamfuzz: you mentioned in your wiki page that also some free software is in the partner archive. is there a reason why it's in the partner archive and not the main repository?
[19:12] <iamfuzz> However, Partner is always open and doesn't have the concept of pockets, such as -updates or -security
[19:13] <iamfuzz> geser, yes, the free software that resides there is Openbravo, Alfresco, and Jonas
[19:13] <iamfuzz> These ship many binary jars
[19:13] <iamfuzz> rather than using those provided in the archive or even compiling them from source at build time
[19:13] <geser> ah, the usual java trouble
[19:13] <iamfuzz> this has prevented their transition to universe
[19:14] <iamfuzz> most vendors refuse to do so as they wish to certify one build, rather than, in their minds, an additonal "Ubuntu" build
[19:14] <Laney> do you think it would be beneficial for these projects to work out the problems to get themselves into debian / ubuntu? or would it be more trouble than it's worth?
[19:14] <iamfuzz> with potential moving pieces (the JAR deps)
[19:14] <Laney> could they not go into multiverse?
[19:14]  * Laney finds this quite interesting
[19:15] <iamfuzz> Laney, in the case of Alfesco, probably more trouble than it's worth
[19:15] <iamfuzz> 100+ jars at last count
[19:15] <iamfuzz> though as the Java library in Ubuntu grows, it becomes more feasible
[19:15] <iamfuzz> for Openbravo, yes, they likely would benefit and we speak with them about this every 6 months but have not as of yet gotten the go ahead
[19:15] <iamfuzz> as for Multiverse, it likely could
[19:16] <iamfuzz> but they see no benefit there as it isn't enabled by default on most server installs either
[19:16] <geser> I guess part of the problem is that jars don't have proper versioning (API/ABI)
[19:16] <iamfuzz> and they enjoy the lax rules of Partner
[19:16] <iamfuzz> as well as a commercial relationship
[19:16] <iamfuzz> correct
[19:16] <Laney> indeed
[19:16] <iamfuzz> as well as the fact that they patch many of them to their liking
[19:17] <geser> what are the main differences between the partner repository and the main one? just the relaxed rules?
[19:17] <iamfuzz> relaxed rules, no pockets, always open
[19:17] <iamfuzz> and the only license criteria that need be met is a distribution agreement with Canonical
[19:18] <iamfuzz> that being said, with the relaxed rules, we do our best to make the packages as presentable as possible
[19:18] <Laney> I suppose for upstreams it gives them a guarantee hat their software will become available
[19:18] <iamfuzz> but it isn't always easy with the binary blobs of goodness we receive :-)
[19:18] <iamfuzz> correct, and the warm and fuzzies that they are a "Partner" of Canonical
[19:19] <Laney> anyway, to Ubuntu Development. (my standard question) Have you worked with Debian at all? For example forwarding patches
[19:19] <iamfuzz> yes, not a ton, but yes
[19:19] <Laney> :-)
[19:20] <iamfuzz> I worked with Debian to fix the gstreamer-plugins-bad package to not improperly collide with our packages
[19:20] <iamfuzz> I've reported many bugs
[19:20] <iamfuzz> and submitted a patch to lintian once
[19:20] <iamfuzz> am in the process of working on a lintian profile that affects Partner packages
[19:20] <Laney> ah, excellent
[19:20] <Laney> that's a good development in lintian upstream
[19:20] <iamfuzz> I've also worked fairly closely with their java maintainer as he assists with our building of them for partner
[19:23] <Laney> finally from me, you mention problems with the release cycle's length as a weakness in Ubuntu
[19:23] <Laney> what do yo uthink could be done about that?
[19:23] <iamfuzz> I'm not sure there can be much done
[19:23] <iamfuzz> I commented on that only because I came from a distribution that released ~every 2 years
[19:23] <iamfuzz> which gave ample time for thorough bug testing and the like
[19:24] <Laney> emphasise the LTS releases more over the others?
[19:24] <iamfuzz> and more importantly in my role, it affects ISV package migrations
[19:24] <iamfuzz> the IBMs of the world are slow to move
[19:24] <iamfuzz> Yes, in that realm we do
[19:24] <iamfuzz> if it's a "server" related package, we almost insist on their following the LTS cycle
[19:24] <iamfuzz> which has proven helpful
[19:24] <Laney> I'm sure you know well all of the possible upgrade paths that you have to support
[19:24] <iamfuzz> but the desktop-oriented offerings obviously have to be transitioned each release
[19:25] <Laney> geser: any qs?
[19:25] <geser> no, just want to mention that I like to see that many testimonials on iamfuzz's application
[19:25] <iamfuzz> indeed, i had much help along the way
[19:26] <iamfuzz> thanks to all 4 of my mentors :-)
[19:26] <Laney> yes, they are very strong
[19:26] <Laney> good work :-)
[19:26] <Laney> geser: shall we vote now or would you prefer all votes on email?
[19:26] <geser> like you like, I send sent my +1 now or with mail
[19:27] <Laney> let's vote now, to save some email traffic
[19:27] <Laney> [vote] Brian Thomason to join MOTU
[19:27] <meetingology> Please vote on: Brian Thomason to join MOTU
[19:27] <meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
[19:27] <Laney> +q
[19:27] <Laney> erm, what does that mean?
[19:27] <Laney> +1
[19:27] <meetingology> +1 received from Laney
[19:27] <iamfuzz> question?
[19:27] <geser> +1
[19:27] <meetingology> +1 received from geser
[19:27] <Laney> means I can't hit the 1 correctly :P
[19:28] <iamfuzz> ;-)
[19:28] <Laney> [endvote]
[19:28] <meetingology> Voting ended on: Brian Thomason to join MOTU
[19:28] <meetingology> Votes for:2 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
[19:28] <meetingology> Motion carried
[19:28] <Laney> thanks a lot iamfuzz, watch devel-permissions for more :>
[19:28] <iamfuzz> thanks guys, I very much appreciate your taking the time for the interview despite lack of quorum
[19:28] <Laney> yeah, sorry about that …
[19:28] <iamfuzz> it happens
[19:28] <iamfuzz> I seem to be a bad omen too
[19:28] <iamfuzz> has happened 4 times to me :-)
[19:28] <Laney> heh
[19:29] <Laney> people seem to be travelling a lot currently
[19:29] <Laney> ah well
[19:29] <iamfuzz> that time of year
[19:29] <Laney> smoser: here?
[19:29] <smoser> here
[19:29] <Laney> \o/
[19:30] <Laney> [topic] Ubuntu Core Developer Application for Scott Moser
[19:30] <meetingology> TOPIC: Ubuntu Core Developer Application for Scott Moser
[19:30] <smoser> I'm Scott Moser, I've been contributing to Ubuntu development for the past 2 years.  For the majority of that time, I've been the responsible party for creating and releasing the official Ubuntu Cloud Images (UEC), which are ready-to-run images targetted towards running in cloud platforms.  I've had PPU upload rights for a few packages for about a year, and have had several sponsored uploads across main, universe and multiverse.
[19:30] <Laney> care to give us a quick introduction to yourself?
[19:30] <Laney> aha!
[19:30] <smoser> my application is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ScottMoser/DeveloperApplication
[19:30] <Laney> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ScottMoser/DeveloperApplication
[19:30] <Laney> ...
[19:31] <Laney> I notice that you're explicitly applying for server and MOTU as well. Any reason for that? (not that it's a problem :-)
[19:31] <smoser> That was on advice of Daviey, but primarily the ubuntu-server-dev team is interested in boosting numbers to it.
[19:32] <smoser> and its membership approval is delegated here.
[19:32] <smoser> so 2 birds, one stone.
[19:32] <Laney> fair.
[19:35] <smoser> am I being waited on ? I just want to make sure I'm not holding anything up.  My introduction came before Laney asked for it above (just to make sure it was seen).
[19:36] <geser> too much to read in too little time
[19:36] <Laney> smoser: sorry, connection dropped
[19:36] <Laney> It is my impression that Ubuntu's cloud offerings have been rather sucessful. Is this accurate? Have you been please with the way they ahve been received? :-)
[19:37] <smoser> we have strong reason to believe that our images on EC2 are amoung the most popular to run.
[19:38] <smoser> I would say that that is most definitely the largest success we've had.  The other thing to point to for success as Ubuntu as a "cloud os" is in Openstack usage.
[19:38] <smoser> Ubuntu is OpenStacks' reference platform, and our cloud-images are expected to work there, and used by many.
[19:38] <geser> do the Ubuntu package need many changes to also work in the cloud image properly?
[19:39] <smoser> my largest head-butting with Ubuntu has been over grub.
[19:39] <smoser> the images are interesting in that we include both grub2 and write/manage a /boot/grub/menu.lst
[19:39] <Laney> how much of an intersection is there between server and cloud? Is there ever a conflict there or are they complementary?
[19:40] <smoser> grub-pc is included so that they can work as a normal ubuntu installation, and we manage /boot/grub/menu.lst with grub-legacy-ec2 (which is read by the 'pv-grub' "bootloader" on eC2)
[19:40] <smoser> i think there is a fairly large intersection between "server" and "cloud"
[19:40] <smoser> both ubuntu cloud host and cloud guest really are just package set selections.
[19:41] <smoser> and the packages that are improtant there rely heavily on functionality that is common to many ubuntu flavors
[19:42] <smoser> from the image perspective, we try to ship something that can easily and rapidly be provisioned into something that does what the user wants.
[19:42] <Laney> I guess outside of the 'infrastructure' not much needs modifying
[19:43] <smoser> I dont think i follow that.
[19:44] <smoser> what did you mean by 'infrastructure' ?
[19:45] <Laney> I am using infrastructure to refer to the packages needed to manage your cloud host or guest
[19:45] <smoser> well, largely i have ot say "i don't know" to much of that.
[19:46] <smoser> we certainly hope that people find the Ubuntu packages that are available in the archive to "just work".
[19:46] <smoser> but we give them a nice base, and they're able to use whatever they want to accomplish their task.
[19:46] <Laney> geser: any q?
[19:47] <smoser> ie, I'm actually not aware if 5% or 95% use the mysql that is packaged.  they *could* all install from a binary build.
[19:47] <Laney> :-)
[19:49] <geser> Laney: ready to vote
[19:49] <Laney> ok
[19:50] <Laney> [vote] Scott Moser to join core-dev, server-dev, MOTU
[19:50] <meetingology> Please vote on: Scott Moser to join core-dev, server-dev, MOTU
[19:50] <meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
[19:50] <geser> +1
[19:50] <meetingology> +1 received from geser
[19:51] <Laney> +1 // nice endorsements, and importently a nod to Debian in the application. Please continue to push for upstreaming of work wherever possible (Debian Cloud?)
[19:51] <Laney> grr
[19:51] <Laney> AlanBell: ^ make that work please ♥
[19:51] <Laney> +1
[19:51] <meetingology> +1 received from Laney
[19:51] <Laney> [endvote]
[19:51] <meetingology> Voting ended on: Scott Moser to join core-dev, server-dev, MOTU
[19:51] <meetingology> Votes for:2 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
[19:51] <meetingology> Motion carried
[19:51] <Laney> smoser: we'll be in touch over email
[19:51] <Laney> thanks for turning up :-D
[19:51] <Laney> cnd: heya, you here?
[19:52] <cnd> yep
[19:52] <smoser> thanks.
[19:52] <Laney> [topic] Ubuntu Core Developer Application: Chase Douglas
[19:52] <meetingology> TOPIC: Ubuntu Core Developer Application: Chase Douglas
[19:52] <Laney> quick intro? :>
[19:52] <cnd> sure
[19:53] <cnd> I'm one of the developers of the uTouch multitouch and gesture stack in Ubuntu
[19:53] <cnd> like much of the desktop-experience team at Canonical, we do a bunch of upstream development
[19:53] <cnd> however, our team is a little unique
[19:53] <cnd> we enjoy ubuntu development too :)
[19:53] <cnd> so we end up maintaining our own packages
[19:54] <cnd> so we do all kinds of development
[19:54]  * Laney likes the sound of that
[19:54] <Laney> did you write the packaging for your software?
[19:54] <cnd> for most of it, yes
[19:54] <cnd> our team did
[19:54] <cnd> specifically, I have packaged utouch-qml, utouch-gesturetest, and I have maintained packaging for all our stuff
[19:54] <cnd> I also have touched many packages throughout the stack
[19:55] <cnd> I started in the kernel team before utouch
[19:55] <cnd> so I have been involved there
[19:55] <cnd> and I still write patches that go upstream and then trickle back into ubuntu
[19:55] <Laney> I see you maintain a package in Debian. Do you think that works well?
[19:55] <cnd> tbh, I don't know too much
[19:55] <cnd> I wrote the package
[19:55] <cnd> and I have stats that show many people use it
[19:56] <Laney> you haven't had the pleasure of a bug report yet? :-)
[19:56] <cnd> but after a few bug reports initially I haven't heard anything since
[19:56] <Laney> ah
[19:56] <cnd> so no news is good news I guess :)
[19:56] <Laney> well, that's a good sign
[19:56] <cnd> I also have worked with debian in other areas
[19:56] <Laney> it's not causing you much trouble
[19:56] <cnd> I helped merge changes into pm-utils
[19:57] <cnd> and I have worked with the ubuntu and debian x teams
[19:57] <Laney> is the utouch stuff going to go to debian?
[19:57] <cnd> I'm the author of extensive X patches in ubuntu that we are hoping to get upstream into x.org
[19:57] <Laney> has anyone expressed interest there?
[19:57] <cnd> where it will be slurped into all the distros
[19:57] <Laney> or any other distro, for that matter
[19:57] <cnd> yes, we have interest from debian, and gentoo, and pretty much everyone :)
[19:57] <cnd> right now we have a prototype multitouch XInput extension in our server
[19:57] <cnd> which has been a proving ground of sorts
[19:58] <cnd> and we hope to have it officially available from upstream by the time 12.04 LTS ships
[19:58] <cnd> so we don't have a huge patch to maintain there
[19:58] <Laney> that would be great
[19:59] <cnd> it would also expand the reach of utouch since it's dependent on the patches
[19:59] <cnd> which no one else really wants to ship in their distro
[19:59] <cnd> and I don't blame them :)
[19:59] <cnd> the stuff needs to get upstream
[20:00] <Laney> I see one of your endorsers is someone you have mentored!
[20:00] <cnd> yes
[20:00] <Laney> that is a bit unusual - how did you find that experience?
[20:00] <cnd> great!
[20:00] <Laney> something you'd like to carry on if you are approved? :-)
[20:00] <Laney> (perhaps by hanging out in #ubuntu-motu, yes yes yes?)
[20:00] <cnd> certainly, it's one of th reasons I am coming here
[20:01] <cnd> I find it hard to participate in things like patch pilot
[20:01] <cnd> there are things one can do without upload rights
[20:01] <cnd> but many more things can be done with them to move things along faster
[20:01] <Laney> one of the goals of patch pilot was to /not/ require upload rights
[20:01] <cnd> I'm not sure that's been a success then...
[20:01] <cnd> it's true that it doesn't require it
[20:01] <Laney> i'd be interested in working with ways to make the stints more productive if you don't think that has worked
[20:01] <cnd> but I feel I don't accomplish much without it
[20:02] <cnd> I like to take tasks and see them to completion
[20:02] <cnd> I find that helps me make sure things are done
[20:02] <cnd> the more things are handed off from one person to another, the less likely it will really reach the finish line
[20:03] <Laney> I agree the nature of the work would have to be rather different (not direct sponsorship), but I'm sure we can find ways for people to be helpful even if they can't do the eventual sponsorship
[20:03] <Laney> hmm......
[20:03] <cnd> I suppose I shouldn't have been so negative when I said it's not been a success
[20:03] <cnd> I feel I can do more
[20:03] <cnd> and that's one reason I'm here
[20:03] <Laney> no no I kind of foresaw this as something that might happen when we were devising the scheme
[20:03] <cnd> I think the program is reasonable
[20:04] <cnd> it just works better with upload rights
[20:04] <Laney> I don't want non-uploaders to feel like they aren't helping
[20:04] <micahg> there are 2k patches in Ubuntu that need a guiding hand
[20:04] <cnd> I'm not sure I have any good ideas off the top of my head on how to fix that
[20:04] <Laney> for example there is that ^ scheme that I forgot the name of
[20:04] <Laney> operation cleansweep
[20:04] <broder> operation cleansweep
[20:05] <Laney> anyway, let's speak with dholbach about this another time
[20:05] <cnd> sure
[20:05] <Laney> geser: q?
[20:05] <broder> it's probably worth pulling barry or poolie or someone else from the bzr team into the discussion, since that was the inspiration for the patch pilot stuff
[20:05] <geser> no
[20:06] <Laney> broder: indeed
[20:06] <Laney> it'll be the patch pilot first anniversary at florida this year, perhaps we can review it then
[20:06] <Laney> not that I know if I'll be there yet
[20:08] <Laney> cnd: finally, there is a DMB seat going if you are interested. Regarding the recent thread(s), I apologise for our failings and hope we can work to improve the process :-)
[20:08] <Laney> particularly, I'm concerned that you didn't feel able to apply before now and how we can fix that
[20:08] <cnd> Laney, heh, I've been thinking very long and hard about that, tbh
[20:08] <cnd> Laney, I was hoping it was less than a 2 year commitment
[20:09] <cnd> I have ideas on how to make things better
[20:09] <cnd> I'm caught because I'm not on the board
[20:09] <cnd> and I don't want the board to feel like I'm usurping their role or anything
[20:09] <Laney> well, you can get a mandate for your changes
[20:09] <cnd> but I also am not sure I can personally commit to being on the board
[20:10] <Laney> yeah. I understand.
[20:10] <cnd> I'm taking a bit of a break just to reassess
[20:10] <cnd> and I don't want to cause harm, even though none is ever intended
[20:11] <Laney> things always look different from the other side of the fence, unfortunately
[20:11] <cnd> yep
[20:11] <cnd> I felt the conversation had some good effects, such as helping me understand what it's like for some board members
[20:11] <Laney> personally I think that we have a perception problem, and the reality isn't all that bad
[20:11] <cnd> I agree, I think some small tweaks could help
[20:12] <Laney> indeed
[20:12] <Laney> perhaps you can present your improvements to the board at an IRC meeting when they become formed?
[20:12] <cnd> sure
[20:12] <Laney> then take them more public after that
[20:13] <Laney> to the vote machine!
[20:13] <Laney> [vote] Chase Douglas to join ~ubuntu-core-dev
[20:13] <meetingology> Please vote on: Chase Douglas to join ~ubuntu-core-dev
[20:13] <meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
[20:13] <Laney> +1
[20:13] <meetingology> +1 received from Laney
[20:13] <geser> +1
[20:13] <meetingology> +1 received from geser
[20:13] <Laney> strong testimonials, good previous work. rock & roll :-)
[20:13] <Laney> thanks chase!
[20:13] <Laney> [endvote]
[20:13] <meetingology> Voting ended on: Chase Douglas to join ~ubuntu-core-dev
[20:13] <meetingology> Votes for:2 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
[20:13] <meetingology> Motion carried
[20:13] <cnd> thanks!
[20:14] <Laney> will be in touch over email as well, sorry about the quorumness (that is one of our biggest problems imho)
[20:14] <Laney> [endmeeting]
[20:14] <meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Aug 15 20:14:13 2011 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot . (v 0.1.4)
[20:14] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-08-15-19.06.moin.txt
[20:14] <cnd> yeah, it's hard over irc
[20:14] <cnd> with a world wide board
[20:14] <Laney> very
[20:15] <micahg> I just wanted to point out for people following on IRC that core-dev has an implicit membership in MOTU
[20:15] <Laney> The explicit membership is seen as more of a 'social' thing
[20:15] <Laney> i.e. it makes you more part of the team's community
[20:16] <tumbleweed> re operation cleansweep. We considered the idea of putting some of them on the sponsorship queue, but I'm not too sure how that would work
[20:16] <micahg> Laney: you get the same badge on your LP page...what makes one more part of the community is participation in that community IMHO
[20:16] <cnd> Laney, I forgot to ask one thing
[20:16] <cnd> a simple addition of a package to a package set
[20:16] <cnd> I can email the request if that's easier?
[20:17] <micahg> tumbleweed: the pilots w/out upload rights could prepare those, that's what I was implying
[20:17] <geser> cnd: is the package covered by an approved package set?
[20:17] <tumbleweed> micahg: sounds like that would be best done in a separate queue?
[20:17] <cnd> geser, what do you mean by that?
[20:17] <cnd> the package is utouch-qml
[20:17] <micahg> tumbleweed: well, there's an LP query for that I think
[20:17] <cnd> it's in universe and it should be added to the utouch package set
[20:18] <cnd> it's new as of a week or two ago
[20:18] <tumbleweed> micahg: yeah, either people aren't picking them off, or we've already solved the problem
[20:18] <geser> cnd: got the package set approved by a wildcard (like utouch-*) or an explicit package list?
[20:18] <cnd> geser, I assume package list
[20:18] <micahg> tumbleweed: crimsun has been picking them off :)
[20:18] <cnd> if so, it should be wildcard utouch-*
[20:19] <cnd> I didn't realize that was possible
[20:19] <Laney> I don't think we need to be excessively bureaucratic if it was essentially all utouch packages
[20:19] <cnd> I know I can't upload to it, and I have upload rights to the package set
[20:19] <micahg> package sets can't have wildcards AFAIK
[20:20] <Laney> not officially
[20:20] <geser> cnd: there is not much documentation about how package sets can get requested. Add it to the agenda for the next meeeting and once approved it eases the maintainance (as long as the package meets the approved wildcard no meeting is needed to add it to the package set).
[20:20] <micahg> approvals can have wildcards :)
[20:20] <Laney> what is the package?
[20:21] <cnd> Laney, utouch-qml
[20:21] <cnd> so I need to add an agenda item to request that all utouch-* packages be approved for the utouch package set?
[20:22] <Laney> IMHO we could infer that approval from the DMB's original decision
[20:23] <cnd> I believe that's how it has happened in the past
[20:23] <cnd> I can't remember exactly
[20:23] <geser> cnd: yes, afaik there is no policy about how package sets are managed, so I prefer it to have a vote on it (but it can be a wildcard)
[20:23] <Laney> added it
[20:23] <cnd> but I remember asking to have a package added to a package set once before (they seem to line up in time with my personal applications)
[20:23] <cnd> and someone just added it
[20:23] <cnd> thanks Laney :)
[20:23] <Laney> it was pretty explicitly created as a 'utouch package set'
[20:24] <geser> Laney: just for the record: no objection from me
[20:24] <Laney> :-)
[20:24] <cnd> ok, back to my vacation day :)
[20:24] <cnd> thanks all!
[20:24] <Laney> enjoy
[20:25] <AlanBell> Laney: yeah, will do, known bug
[20:25] <AlanBell> Laney: seen the [voters] command
[20:27] <Laney> no, what is that?
[20:28] <Laney> AlanBell: aha
[20:28] <Laney> that bug is even in the documentation, nice
[20:29] <AlanBell> you can give it a list of authorised voters
[20:29] <AlanBell> so #voters Laney geser
[20:29] <AlanBell> would make it only listen to votes from the board
[20:29] <Laney> hot
[20:30] <AlanBell> and you can #chair someone else if you want to
[20:30] <AlanBell> or a list of people for that matter
[20:32] <highvoltage> cool!
[20:34]  * ajmitch thinks having a list of approved voters for a meeting will be rather useful