[02:12] <Laibsch> I'd like to try out oneiric on a separate partition, but I have trouble since I use an encrypted LVM: https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/grub2/+question/165563 Help appreciated.
[04:03] <bazhang> !info linux
[04:37] <brsbner> Alpha 3 distribution upgrade is always crashing and failing. What can I do? I can't get it to update at all.
[04:40] <jbicha> brsbner: it's difficult to know what exactly is going wrong with your setup...you could try a clean install
[04:43] <Laibsch> brsbner: look for files in /var/crash and use ubuntu-bug or apport on those files to report the crashes
[04:43] <brsbner> I just installed this...
[04:43] <brsbner> It -is- a clean install.
[04:44] <brsbner> Laibsch: no relevant crash files there :/
[04:44] <Laibsch> brsbner: run "ls -l /var/crash | pastebinit" on the command line. You may need to install pastebinit first
[04:44] <Laibsch> I see
[04:44] <urlin2u> brsbner, have you tried the 2d session?
[04:45] <brsbner> I am on it because 3D refuses to start anymore, crashes crashes and crashes at login.
[04:45] <brsbner> (and I didn't even manage to install any drivers or such yet, just rebooted once)
[04:45] <brsbner> Can't report the bug either, packages haven't been updated yet - and I can't do that, because distribution upgrade crashes after taking half an hour to compute
[04:46] <urlin2u> brsbner, Laibsch' options may be a good start.
[04:46] <brsbner> There are no relevant crash files relating to apt in there
[04:46] <urlin2u> brsbner, did you get the daily to install with?
[04:46] <brsbner> I installed alpha 3.
[04:47] <brsbner> Not the daily unfortunatly. Got it off ubuntu.com/testing as the bug report told me to try.
[04:47] <brsbner> *unfortunately
[04:47] <urlin2u> brsbner,I always install from the daily release you can rsync it as well.
[04:47] <Laibsch> brsbner: are there any crash files?  Does a live CD crash as well?  How did you install?
[04:48] <brsbner> Yeah, there is a compiz, jockey crash report (from when 3D session was failing right at the start), empathy-auth-client crash (from when I was trying to add an account) and a unity 2d launcher crash (just did that out of the blue)
[04:48] <brsbner> I just installed from the live cd, didn't test
[04:48] <brsbner> Installed via USB which was made with the USB creator from 11.04
[04:48] <Laibsch> OK
[04:49] <Laibsch> report the crashes against the files that are there
[04:49] <Laibsch> do you absolutely need oneiric?
[04:49] <brsbner> Nope, but an old bug report relating to an app got closed and the comment said to test if it's here as well. So I decided to give it a go
[04:49] <Laibsch> hmpf
[04:50] <Laibsch> bug number?
[04:50] <Laibsch> that's nonsense, any supported version should be OK
[04:50] <Laibsch> some bug triagers are all too eager
[04:50] <Laibsch> let me know the bug number and I'll have a look.
[04:50] <brsbner> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/576638
[04:50] <Laibsch> thanks
[04:51] <Laibsch> it's not closed!
[04:51] <Laibsch> it says incomplete up there
[04:51] <brsbner> Well that's closed to me heh
[04:51] <jbicha> well, the dictionary is no longer installed by default so that's partially "fixed"
[04:51] <Laibsch> nope
[04:52] <Laibsch> incomplete is asking for further information
[04:52] <Laibsch> and he is not asking you to INSTALL oneiric, he is asking you to run the live CD
[04:52] <brsbner> yes after 3 years :)
[04:52] <Laibsch> so what?
[04:52] <brsbner> -> nobody will ever bother to take a look at it
[04:52] <Laibsch> we are all volunteers
[04:53] <Laibsch> you can get a paid support contract with canonical or anybody else if you are not prepared to wait ;-)
[04:53] <Laibsch> brsbner: you have to agree that this bug is not relevant to 99% of the people out there
[04:53] <brsbner> I did a service by reporting a quality problem, I can not file it next time
[04:53] <Laibsch> more important bugs linger just as long
[04:54] <brsbner> Yeah like alpha3 crashing all over and being unpgradable :)
[04:54] <Laibsch> I know you did a service, but you are also on the demanding side here, demanding your report be dealt in time-frame X
[04:54] <brsbner> I've never said that.
[04:54] <Laibsch> (12:52:41) brsbner: yes after 3 years :)
[04:54] <brsbner> So point out the time frame I mentioned please :) I just said it's a dead end
[04:54] <brsbner> No
[04:54] <brsbner> I said nobody looked at it for 3 years
[04:54] <Laibsch> brsbner: do you want to have a serious discussion and fix problems?
[04:55] <brsbner> I didn't say get it fixed within 3 years!
[04:55] <brsbner> Yes sure, how can I do updates?
[04:55] <Laibsch> My suggestion, do as Pedro told you, run the live CD, reproduce the problem, report back and otherwise do not bother with oneiric (unless you want to help get those problems fixed)
[04:55] <jbicha> brsbner: at any rate, I can confirm that it still doesn't work
[04:56] <Laibsch> jbicha: OK, can you please make that comment in the tracker
[04:56] <brsbner> OK thanks jbicha
[04:56] <jbicha> however, it is no longer installed by default
[04:56] <jbicha> Laibsch: yes, just a moment
[04:56] <Laibsch> cool
[04:56] <Laibsch> if it's no longer installed by default, then I guess it's a lower priority, but it's already set to low which I think is OK.
[04:57] <Laibsch> the problem itself is still valid even in a non-default package
[04:57] <Laibsch> of course
[04:57] <Laibsch> brsbner: do you want to run oneiric and fix the crashes or rather not bother with it?
[04:57] <Laibsch> fix the crashes = report them ;-)
[04:58] <brsbner> Ideally I'd like to continue the QA testing
[04:58] <Laibsch> sure
[04:58] <Laibsch> next step is then to run apport against the crasher files you already have
[04:59] <Laibsch> BTW, I am not running oneiric, but I have a ticket that I'd like somebody to confirm or disconfirm as being present in oneiric: bug 379382. jbicha? ;-)
[05:00] <brsbner> "The problem cannot be reported:  This is not a genuine Ubuntu package" What do I do now, I have not installed any extra packages yet.
[05:00] <jbicha> Laibsch: I am only using 1 monitor these days...
[05:00] <Laibsch> brsbner: are you running very new or very old or otherwise unusual hardware? necessity for proprietary drivers?
[05:00] <brsbner> I'm on a system76 machine which is 2-3 years old
[05:00] <Laibsch> brsbner: that's strange
[05:01] <Laibsch> what is system76?
[05:01] <jbicha> brsbner: that error message is a bit misleading
[05:01] <brsbner> So no, nothing unusual, everthing is Ubuntu compatible.
[05:01] <Laibsch> excuse my ignorance
[05:01] <brsbner> A Ubuntu-only computer provider?
[05:01] <jbicha> I think it also shows up if you have an old version of a package or if your local repository cache is out of date
[05:01] <brsbner> jbicha: I see
[05:01] <Laibsch> brsbner: how are you trying to update by the way?
[05:01]  * Laibsch suggests aptitude
[05:01] <brsbner> via the update manager
[05:02] <Laibsch> cli rules
[05:02] <brsbner> What is the syntax for that>
[05:02] <Laibsch> "sudo aptitude"
[05:02] <jbicha> sudo apt-get update
[05:02] <Laibsch> ;-)
[05:02] <jbicha> sudo apt-get dist-upgrade
[05:02] <jbicha> aptitude isn't installed by default & apt-get does ok too
[05:02] <Laibsch> OK
[05:02]  * Laibsch is an aptitude guy
[05:03] <brsbner> Thanks for the tip. It seems to have skipped the troublesome calculating phase.
[05:08] <Laibsch> somebody around whose main system is not oneiric and on an encrypted LVM? I want to add a partition for ubuntu+1, but fail to boot it: https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/grub2/+question/165563
[05:09] <urlin2u> fail to boot it?
[05:11] <urlin2u> Laibsch, have you run the bootscript to look at the whoje setup?
[05:11] <Laibsch> nope. what bootscript?
[05:11] <Laibsch> Have you visited the URL to see what I did?
[05:11] <urlin2u> http://bootinfoscript.sourceforge.net/
[05:11] <urlin2u> yes
[05:12] <urlin2u> that is why i ask
[05:12] <urlin2u> the lvm is grub-legacy?
[05:13] <urlin2u> sorry lucid grub2
[05:13] <Laibsch> yes, grub2 from lucid
[05:14] <Laibsch> I'm starting to wonder if the natty/oneiric partition for boot would also need to be outside the encrypted LVM container
[05:15] <jbicha> Laibsch: could be, Fedora still uses grub-legacy
[05:15] <urlin2u> generally it is in the mbr unless you have built a partition, of course there are grub files in the OS as well.
[05:16] <urlin2u> lucid
[05:16] <IdleOne> can someone explain to me what the package colord is for?
[05:16] <IdleOne> -!info colord doesn't clear it up
[05:16] <urlin2u> IdleOne, http://www.freedesktop.org/software/colord/
[05:16] <Laibsch> IdleOne: I suppose your real question is "why is that package installed"?
[05:17] <Laibsch> "aptitude why colord" will tell you
[05:17] <IdleOne> Laibsch: really two questions. 1- What is it for and 2- why does it want to install
[05:18] <IdleOne> urlin2u: thanks for the link, reading now
[05:19] <urlin2u> Laibsch, oneiric was your last install is this correct?
[05:20] <Laibsch> urlin2u: no. My main system is lucid.  IIRC I installed it from scratch with the installer CD. I want to add one partition to the LVM holding a playground for ubuntu+1.  Currently it contains a debootstrapped natty.
[05:21] <urlin2u> ahh I see.
[05:21] <IdleOne> hmm I don't imagine myself ever needing to use colord but may as well install it.
[05:23] <Laibsch> urlin2u: http://paste.debian.net/126356/ is the result of the bootinfo script
[05:25] <urlin2u> Laibsch, the debootstrap is booting the ISO, or a install sorry for tthe dumb question.
[05:25] <jbicha> colord is basically mandatory with GNOME 3.2 anyway
[05:27] <Laibsch> urlin2u: "mount /dev/mapper/1001P-natty64 /tmp/somewhere && cd /tmp/somewhere && debootstrap natty", something of that nature
[05:27] <Laibsch> a couple of sudos and mounts randomly thrown in
[05:28] <urlin2u> Laibsch, boy I'm not sure with this I have a link for ISO's in a partition is about it.
[05:28] <jbicha> IdleOne: http://www.freedesktop.org/software/colord/
[05:29] <IdleOne> jbicha: thanks, urlin2u already gave me that link :)
[05:29] <Laibsch> urlin2u: what version of grub?  And how do you boot the ISO?  AFAIK that is something only recent grub can do, plus you need hybrid ISOs which I think Ubuntu only got recently.
[05:29] <urlin2u> Laibsch, grub2 here it is it may be helpful you never know. http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?s=189a8642fb8f02dcd9a9e4fea21ce534&t=1549847
[05:30] <Laibsch> urlin2u: but what version of grub2?
[05:30] <urlin2u> regualr iso
[05:30] <Laibsch> you can boot a hardy ISO with that?
[05:30] <Laibsch> let me have a look at that link
[05:31] <urlin2u> Laibsch, I know what your referring to as far as Natty grub2  1.99 setup, the thread is kept up to date the first post by the thread starter will have the updated info.
[05:31] <Laibsch> urlin2u: that ISO is on an unencrypted partition, though, isn't it?
[05:31] <Laibsch> well, my grub is from lucid.
[05:32] <urlin2u> I believe so but it is running of the grub in the OS and mbr.
[05:32] <Laibsch> the complication in my case is that grub/initramfs need to unencrypt the partition
[05:33] <urlin2u> that may be the problem, that mod the thread starter is about the best I have seen they maitain with others the grub2 wiki's the forum may help.
[07:42] <Ubuntu1104User> hello
[07:43] <Ubuntu1104User> i want to go to 1110 64 bit from 1104 32 bit how so
[07:43] <Ubuntu1104User> also i need to make space on my disc but out of ideas
[07:44] <Ian_Corne> not possible Ubuntu1104User
[07:44] <rww> You can't change from 32-bit to 64-bit without reinstalling Ubuntu. If you're going from 11.04 to 11.10 anyway, easiest thing to do would be getting an 11.10 daily or milestone ISO.
[07:51] <Ubuntu1104User> but i dont have cd or usb
[07:51] <Ubuntu1104User> someone stole my usb
[07:51] <Ubuntu1104User> it was really cool too
[07:51] <rww> Too bad. We're not miracle workers :)
[07:52] <Ubuntu1104User> yea right lier
[07:53] <jbicha> Ubuntu1104User: if you had an extra partition, you could install boot from an ISO stored to your hard drive
[07:53] <jbicha> but you're on your own for that endeavour
[07:54] <rww> Ubuntu1104User: As two different channels have now told you, there is no supported method for doing 32-bit to 64-bit sidegrades. I'd appreciate it if you kept comments like "lier" to yourself.
[08:00] <philipballew> will 11.10 have notafaction applets and indecator applets?
[08:04] <jbicha> philipballew: yes, they are part of Unity
[08:05] <philipballew> but they are not in 11.04 that i can find
[08:05]  * philipballew wants banshee to be there and also have cpu monitor
[08:06] <jbicha> what do you mean they're not in 11.04?
[08:06] <Lynoure> philipballew: missed cpu monitor too.
[08:06] <Lynoure> jbicha: have not found one for Kubuntu
[08:06]  * jussi thinks philipballew should go to sleep :P
[08:07] <Lynoure> jbicha: xsensors is not quite as nice as kima, for example.
[08:07] <jussi> Lynoure: theres a cpu monitor plasmoid for kde last time I checked
[08:07] <jbicha> oh, cpu monitoring is different, I believe someone built an indicator for it though
[08:07] <philipballew> jbicha, well with unity all i have is my wifi sound and battery but in 10.10 i had cpu monitoe. caps lock indactor and a banshee notifaction
[08:07] <Lynoure> jussi: does it do other sensors too? (I'm not on my 11.10 right now)
[08:08] <diverse_izzue> is anyone using google contacts in evolution? are they working for you in oneiric?
[08:09] <jussi> Lynoure: there are 2. Bubble mon, which does a whole load of stuff, temp, battery etc, and cpumon which does only cpu
[08:09] <philipballew> guess no-body knows what i mean
[08:10] <philipballew> oh well
[08:14] <Lynoure> jussi: ok, good to know. Did not find them in apt-cache searches
[08:14] <jussi> Lynoure: thought theuy came by default.
[08:16] <Lynoure> jussi: maybe, I mostly searched for sensors, not monitors. :)
[08:30] <dsathe> the screen brightness sliders are missing , any alternative ?
[08:31] <IdleOne> Lynoure: in unity you are going to want to look for "indicators"
[08:31] <IdleOne> iirc, since jussi turned me on to KDE I <3 Kubuntu
[08:32] <Lynoure> IdleOne: I'm not sure what "unity" is. Was under impression that it would be something with/for Gnome
[08:33] <IdleOne> Unity is what the default GUI is called now
[08:33] <Lynoure> IdleOne: also the KDE GUI?
[08:33] <IdleOne> Lynoure: no, just in Ubuntu
[08:33] <dsathe> how do i increase lcd backlight
[08:33] <oimon> anyone running oneiric try alt-tab for me please? i'm getting 2 switchers right now when i do it
[08:33] <dsathe> form command line
[08:33] <dsathe> omnion all ok here
[08:34] <Lynoure> IdleOne: oh, then no wonder I was not clear on the term, I'm on Kubuntu myself. Trying not to spread myself over different desktop environments
[08:34] <IdleOne> Lynoure: then you want plasma widgets I believe they are called
[08:35] <IdleOne> right click on the panel or desktop and click widgets, you may need to unlock them first
[08:36] <Lynoure> IdleOne: yes, I know where they are, and jussi gave me names
[08:36] <IdleOne> ah, that will teach me not to read the full scroll back
[08:36] <IdleOne> :)
[08:37] <Lynoure> IdleOne: it happens. Thank you for your helpfulness (I kind of think I remember seeing you here and on other buntu channels way back when I was more active)
[08:37] <IdleOne> yeah, I'm like old furniture you don't want but can't throw out
[08:40] <Lynoure> IdleOne: maybe we can sell you to a good home eventually =)
[08:40] <IdleOne> hehe
[08:40] <IdleOne> maybe
[08:46]  * jussi puts IdleOne in the sheep pen for the sheep to sleep on :D
[08:47] <IdleOne> I've become a blanket for animals made of blanket
[08:48] <triunity> What does that even mean?
[08:49] <IdleOne> sheep make wool, wool blanket
[08:49] <triunity> But your not a sheep, so "I've become a blanket for animals" doesn't make sense... unless you are made out of wool...
[08:51] <triunity> Not to change this amazing conversation or anything, but I have a question about 11.10... Namely, will it have a login as guest from GDM?
[09:17] <khtaam> Hi! is there a way to disable utouch?
[09:20] <jbicha> triunity: from lightdm you mean?
[09:21] <triunity> jbicha:  I mean Oracle VM VirtualBox
[09:21] <triunity> Ohh sorry wrong convo
[09:22] <triunity> From the new login manager, yes
[09:22] <jbicha> triunity: lightdm is default now instead of gdm, & I believe the guest button works but I haven't tried it
[09:23] <triunity> The other question is this.  One of my clients is a school district, and through some tinkering, I created a "guest login" that's name is student.  So the students click the "Student" Account, and it creates a guest session.  Do you know if the "guest login" name can be changed to "Student Login"
[09:25] <jbicha> triunity: it might be hard-coded which would require recompiling, alternately you might be able to use gdm instead
[09:25] <triunity> Hmm...  Nothin' i hate more than recompilin'... Call me lazy but its not really my thing...
[09:26] <triunity> I forsee that I will be using a test box for a while before i let the school district upgrade...
[09:27] <triunity> Do you have an alpha release of 11.10?
[09:27] <triunity> The question may end up being this, if i can disable the guest login button, and then create a student account that actually creates a guest session... that might work..
[09:28] <triunity> In Users and Groups, is there a way to remove the guest login button?
[09:46] <jbicha> triunity: sorry, I don't know details of how the guest login works
[09:47] <triunity> Its ok!
[09:47] <triunity> I have a funny feeling I am going to get very knowlable on the subject in 53 days...
[10:47] <toasty95> where may i find the 11.04 roll to 11.10 Alpha commands ?
[10:48] <toasty95> I have not rolled into unstable before.
[10:55] <Ian_Corne> do-dist-upgrade -d
[11:14] <janisozaur> hello, my oneiric installation only offers me "unity" and "unity 2d" sessions, how can I get regular gnome?
[11:15] <IdleOne> you can't
[11:16] <janisozaur> hmm... a friend showed me that he got gnome 3.0 on natty via ppa, but these were somewhat broken. do ppas with g3 exist for oneiric and are they usable?
[11:16] <Ian_Corne> hmm
[11:16] <Ian_Corne> you can IdleOne , no?
[11:16] <Ian_Corne> there's gnome-shell
[11:18] <triunity> Janisozaur, Ubuntu Classic should be on the list
[11:18] <IdleOne> gnome-shell is not classic gnome
[11:18] <janisozaur> triunity, well, it isn't
[11:18] <IdleOne> and classic won't be in 11.10 afaik
[11:18] <Ian_Corne> triunity: only when you're upgraded from 11.04
[11:19] <triunity> Ian_Corne, does that mean, once 11.10 is up, we can't have a normal desktop???? only that crappy unity garbage??
[11:19] <janisozaur> Ian_Corne, I did upgrade from 11.04 and I have no "classic"
[11:20] <Ian_Corne> hmm, i still have it
[11:20] <Ian_Corne> mind that because it's there doesn't mean it works
[11:20] <Ian_Corne> I think alot of dependencies break
[11:22] <triunity> Man, this sucks... I've used ubuntu for 4 years now... I think for the first time, i am going to have to switch, I hate unity sooo much.  But at least Classic allowed me to keep using it....
[11:24] <IdleOne> triunity: there is always Kubuntu or Xubuntu or Lubuntu or.....
[11:25] <triunity> Idle, i heart me some gnome...  kde xfce aren't my taste
[11:25] <triunity> But actually, i can install ubuntu server, then install xserver + gnome3
[11:25] <triunity> It should work, right?
[11:25] <triunity> and install gdm
[11:28] <janisozaur> triunity, gnome3 isn't quite as nice as gnome2
[11:28] <janisozaur> If I have to choose, I might be more keen to use unity than g3, unless there is a way to restore the g2-default two panel layout
[11:29] <triunity> Well, even if i install xserver + gnome2 + gmd, it would work, ehh?
[11:31] <janisozaur> triunity, for some time, yes. but as Ian_Corne mentioned, dependencies will break, etc.
[11:32] <toasty95> Ian_Corne.  Ok it worked great. thanks
[11:33] <Ian_Corne> huh?
[11:33] <Ian_Corne> ah :)
[11:33] <Ian_Corne> good to hear
[11:34] <triunity> Man, I see the end of my days with ubuntu comming...  The only problem is, I run the IT for a school district, and that means, i am going to have to change 200+ computers from ubuntu to another os, once 11.04 dies completely
[11:34] <Ian_Corne> I've got 100 computers
[11:34] <Ian_Corne> we're just on 10.04
[11:34] <Ian_Corne> using ppa's where needed
[11:34] <triunity> LTS does make sense, ehh?
[11:35] <Ian_Corne> 12.04 will be fine to use
[11:35] <triunity> but if they are dropping gnome now, you know that by 12.04 they will have completely removed any trace of it...
[11:36] <Ian_Corne> yes
[11:36] <IdleOne> triunity: why not save yourself the trouble and start getting used to Unity now.
[11:36] <Ian_Corne> and why is change bad?
[11:37] <IdleOne> by the time you need to upgrade you will be able to use and trouble shoot any problems.
[11:37] <triunity> I used UNR (ubuntu netbook remix) and that was unity, and i HATED it.  Not to mention, when i sit clients down, they 100% prefer the look and feel of gnome over unity
[11:37] <ali1234> i've been using unity for a few months now
[11:37] <IdleOne> gnome2 is going EOL sooner or later
[11:37] <ali1234> you never get used to it
[11:37] <triunity> And i have asked them, 2 computers side by side, and they all said gnome2 felt more natural
[11:37] <ali1234> it sucks
[11:37] <triunity> Thanks for support ali1234
[11:38] <Laibsch> Can somebody please verify whether or not bug 379382 also occurs in oneiric?
[11:38] <yofel> well, what you're used to always feels more natural
[11:38] <IdleOne> well, I switched to kubuntu and love it
[11:38] <ali1234> and also i can't troubleshoot or test for bugs because of the gtk3 dependencies in the latest version
[11:38] <triunity> yofel, these are windows users, never used linux in there life, and gnome was more natural
[11:39] <yofel> triunity: that I agree with, but we're not windows. Why not try Xfce?
[11:39] <Ian_Corne> or lxde
[11:39] <IdleOne> triunity: they should feel right at home with KDE
[11:39] <yofel> KDE at least won't do any major UI rewrite in the near future
[11:39] <triunity> Used xfce, didn't like it either... remember, i deal with windows users all day, and the less windows it feels the more i hear about it...
[11:40] <triunity> I don't like the file manager and internet browser being joined in KDE... but other than that its not horrable
[11:40] <IdleOne> you mean like it is in windows?
[11:40] <yofel> triunity: then use KDE and change single click opening into double click, then they should be fine
[11:41] <yofel> triunity: and nothing stops you from using firefox in KDE
[11:41] <IdleOne> or chromium
[11:41] <triunity> Yofel, i may look into that.  Or better, change there file manager out completely, replace it with Naudilus (or however you spell it), then install firefox.  Good as new ;)
[11:41] <triunity> And of course the one click thing ;)
[11:42] <yofel> triunity: what's so bad about dolphin? And if you're changing it try konqueror first
[11:43] <triunity> Dolphin, if i recall its file manager + internet browser, correct?  And I know for a fact that would confuse they user base ( 4000 14 - 18 year olds)
[11:43] <triunity> confuse the user base**
[11:43] <yofel> no, konqueror was the old file manager + browser, dolphin is only a file manager
[11:45] <triunity> Ohh, maybe i am confused.  Either way, i want file manager to be seperate from browser.  Question does kde have a guest session?
[11:45] <yofel> not sure, although I think not (I don't know how that's implemented in ubuntu)
[11:48] <triunity> guest session is in ubuntu, and required.  The students login to a highly modifed guest session in all the computer labs.  (as so they can't break anything(
[12:00] <BluesKaj> Howdy all
[12:00] <ali1234> one of the big problems with KDE (besides the way it looks) is the way it handles file types. since all KDE apps use the same widget collections you never know where a file is going to end up.
[12:00] <ali1234> it used to be really bad with konqueror where you could click on just about any file and conqueror would always open it in a tab, embedding a text editor or an image viewer (and therefore having different menus and keyboard shortcuts)
[12:01] <Lynoure> widget collections?
[12:01] <ali1234> yes
[12:01] <ali1234> eg a default install of KDEhas about 3 different text editors
[12:01] <ali1234> but they all use the same text edit widget
[12:01] <ali1234> they all have an identical UI layout
[12:02] <ali1234> they all use the same KDE widgets, and they all share the same bugs
[12:03] <BluesKaj> I like the way kde looks ...it isn't cartooney like gnome ,,,and what text edit bugs ?
[12:05] <ali1234> the way it handles temp files for one
[12:06] <ali1234> example: you are editing some code, and you need to refer to some source file on the web
[12:06] <ali1234> so you click on it in konq - and the plain text file was opened ina new tab in konq, as a temp file
[12:06] <BluesKaj> I keep getting a keyring dialog asking for my pw once the desktop loads , I'm supposed have pw-less logins. guess I'll have to include it i sudoers
[12:06] <ali1234> but you could still edit it
[12:06] <ali1234> and it didn't warn you or anything
[12:07] <BluesKaj> code ? what's that :)
[12:07] <ali1234> and then you switch back to the code editor... and then you can't find the other text file again, because konq has a zillion tabs because it opens everything in a tab
[12:07] <ali1234> and the same problem with images
[12:08] <ali1234> and pretty much any file you might find online
[12:08] <ali1234> since everything is a widget in KDE, konq can open anything
[12:09] <ali1234> but it just ends up confusing and you can't find anything if you have a few different windows open since the task bar ends up as [konq] [konq] [konq] etc
[12:09] <yofel> well, s/widget/kpart/ - as long as there's a kpart that can do something konq can embed it
[12:09] <ali1234> i assume this is why they started over with dolphin
[12:09] <yofel> in this case the kate kpart
[12:09] <ali1234> yofel: yes, kparts... whatever you call them... they are just widgets
[12:10] <yofel> so? Like that every KDE application that needs a text editor (kate, kdevelop, kile, ...) have the same editor settings
[12:10] <ali1234> yes, to the point where you can't have different settings in different apps
[12:11] <ali1234> because the config is done for the widget, and then everything uses it
[12:11] <ali1234> so you can't have syntax highlighting and line numbers on in one editor and of in other
[12:11] <ali1234> at least you couldn't in KDE 3.x
[12:12] <ali1234> and if you don't like how the editor works in kedit... don't even bother looking at the others, because they are all the same
[12:12] <yofel> hm, not sure if you can now, konsole has profiles for that, but I'm not sure about kate
[12:13] <ali1234> i actually thought KDE 4 was a huge improvement
[12:13] <ali1234> but i didn't use it for long enough to see if these things have been fixed
[12:13] <ali1234> because they still haven't fixed the font rendering
[12:13] <ali1234> and that is the first thing you notice
[12:14] <ali1234> the ease of reusing kparts also means that every single program ends up looking like this, until you configure it: http://al.robotfuzz.com/~al/random/kdefail2.png
[12:15] <ali1234> but this is a place where there is no global config... you have to turn all the panels and toolbars off in every individual app
[12:15] <triunity> Heyy just for an FYI, you can use ubuntu classic in 11.10, you just have to install it, its called somethin' like ubuntu-gnome-fallback
[12:16] <ali1234> triunity: yes, and i doubt that will be removed from the archive any time soon
[12:16] <ali1234> it just isn't on the CD any more
[12:16] <dsathe> how do i emulate a keypress event on ubuntu
[12:16] <dsathe> ???
[12:17] <triunity> dsathe: xdotool
[12:18] <triunity> then run a command like: xdotool key -clearmodifiers alt+F1
[12:18] <triunity> or whatever...
[12:18] <triunity> ali, i don't need it on the cd, i just need it somewhere.  As long as i can install it, as part of my setup script, its ok ;)
[12:20] <triunity> dsathe, just as an fyi, that would be more of an #ubuntu question, not #ubuntu+1 question
[12:21] <dsathe> thanks
[12:21] <dsathe> triunity: need to emulate XF86KbdBrightnessUp
[12:22] <triunity> lol wut?
[12:22] <dsathe> is that allowed
[12:22] <dsathe> brightness press
[12:22] <triunity> Is that an fn key?
[12:22] <triunity> Ohh ok
[12:22] <dsathe> liquid damaged my key :D
[12:22] <triunity> ekk sorry to hear
[12:22] <triunity> Yes is is possable, but i'd have to find the key...
[12:23] <triunity> mind sticking around for a minute, while i poke around my system
[12:24] <dsathe> sure
[12:25] <dsathe> i am ol most day :P
[12:25] <triunity> Hey i accidently did a screen clear, what key did you need?
[12:26] <triunity> YOu know, the other option would be just change the key set.  System --> Preferences --> Keyboard shortcuts, change screen brightness to ALT- (whatever)
[12:26] <dsathe> XF86KbdBrightnessUp
[12:28] <dsathe> problem is gnome 3
[12:28] <dsathe> sliders disappeared
[12:29] <triunity> For your problem you could try: http://www.ubuntuka.com/ubuntu-command-line-tricks-set-1/
[12:29] <Lynoure> Jockey died at me upon offering some non-free drivers, what's the right way to restart it (clicking on the restart button did seemingly nothing)?
[12:29] <triunity> echo 100 > /proc/acpi/video/VGA/LCD/brightness
[12:29] <Lynoure> (in kde, if it matters)
[12:30] <dsathe> tried
[12:30] <dsathe> cat: /proc/acpi/video/VGA/LCD/brightness: No such file or directory
[12:30] <dsathe> if i dont have it
[12:30] <dsathe> will it still do the tirck ?
[12:32] <dsathe> what happend to gnome 3 brightness control sliders ???
[12:32] <triunity> I can't say about the brightness sliders, as i use a desktop
[12:32] <dsathe> kk
[12:33] <BluesKaj> Lynoure, you could drop to a tty and do jockey-text -a
[12:34] <triunity> Ok, i got one for you:
[12:34] <triunity> gconf-editor
[12:34] <triunity> and go to apps/gnome-power-manager/backlight
[12:34] <triunity> brightness_ac and brightness_dim_battery
[12:37] <dsathe> aha
[12:37] <triunity> Works?
[12:38] <dsathe> trying
[12:38] <triunity> *crosses fingers*
[12:38] <dsathe> gconf not have power
[12:38] <dsathe> lemme try dconf
[12:39] <triunity> are you on ubuntu or kubuntu?
[12:40] <dsathe> ubuntu 11.10
[12:41] <triunity> Im running ubuntu 11.04 and gconf-editor has it, maybe 11.10 hasn't implemented it yet...
[12:41] <dsathe> yeah
[12:41] <dsathe> exactly
[12:41] <dsathe> no gnome 3 migrated to dconf
[12:41] <dsathe> i had it all well timm now
[12:41] <dsathe> now is the trouble
[12:42] <dsathe> like 3-4 days ago it came in
[12:44] <triunity> Hrm... tricky stuff
[12:44] <triunity> Obviously this is why alpha releases are not used for production...
[12:44] <dsathe> haha yeah
[12:46] <triunity> You may need to do some research on xdotool, i am quite sure what you need can be done, i just am to tired to find it
[12:46] <zniavre> goood afternoon
[12:47]  * Ian_Corne is trying ubuntu 11.10 on his dual screen setup
[12:47] <Ian_Corne> it's not good...
[12:47] <zniavre> i want to remove from application dash all removed applications (they are still displayed)
[12:49] <triunity> zniavre, what do you want?
[12:50] <zniavre> triunity,  in the unity dash application i can see removed application that is a bit useless no ?
[12:50] <Ian_Corne> unity 2D works better
[12:50] <Ian_Corne> for dual screen support
[12:50] <triunity> Good to know Ian_Corne ;)
[12:51] <BluesKaj> less demand on the gpu, gives more headroom for other apps
[12:51] <dupondje> Empathy broken ?
[12:51] <dupondje> can't connect anymore to msn
[12:51] <triunity> BluesKaj, don't get me started on unity...
[12:52] <triunity> Unity makes windows 3.11 look good
[12:52] <zniavre> haha
[12:52] <BluesKaj> triunity, that's why I run kde despite what others think about it
[12:52] <triunity> Ohh kde, that's not exactly a good solution, thats a bandade to a gunshot...
[12:53] <dsathe> gnome shell is good
[12:53] <triunity> gnome shell, is ubuntu classic, correct?
[12:53] <dsathe> nope
[12:53] <BluesKaj> I've always run kde ..gnome has bever appealed to me ...old windows guy so kde has amore familiar look
[12:53] <dsathe> gnome shell
[12:54] <BluesKaj> my KB has a cold
[12:54] <triunity> BluesKaj, thats weird, because im an old windows guy (i mean, i referenced windows 3.11...) and kde seems so odd... gnome feels more like windows
[12:55] <triunity> and by gnome, i mean, ubuntu 10.04 gnome...
[12:55] <BluesKaj> the only reason I'm here is  there's no kubuntu+1
[12:55] <triunity> LoL
[12:55] <ali1234> KDE *is* a lot closer to windows
[12:55] <ali1234> you only have to open their control panel to see that
[12:56] <ali1234> or the start menu
[12:56] <BluesKaj> triunity, that's a differnt pov , for sure
[12:56] <triunity> Interesting... wonder why i had such a distaste for it...
[12:56] <ali1234> because windows sucks?
[12:56] <triunity> LoL...
[12:56] <IdleOne> BluesKaj: there is a #kubuntu+1 but it forwards here
[12:57] <BluesKaj> triunity, referenced windows 3.11 ,? what does that mean
[12:57] <triunity> Actually my primary complaint was/is konkorer... which i hear has been removed
[12:58] <triunity> Blues, all i ment by that was, I am an old windows guy.  I've been using windows since Windows 3.11, all the way to xp
[12:58] <BluesKaj> I just used 3.1.1, 95 and 98  on the job and some instrument unix based apps previous to that
[12:59] <triunity> Very cool.
[13:00] <BluesKaj> konkueror is still available , but not by default
[13:01] <triunity> I may need to revisit KDE... expecially since ubuntu dev team is smokin' them some crazy drugs...
[13:03] <BluesKaj> but i din't buy a pc for home til 1998 , shortly before I retired ...dialup was the only thing available in this little town at the time ..but we thought it was pretty cool at the time ...for about 1 month :)
[13:04] <BluesKaj> triunity, KDE seems to have some direction and vector going for it ..gnome on the other habd seems lost in politics
[13:04] <zniavre> im still wondering why with gnome3.1 (gtk+3) it is not possible to make rounded menus but rounded tooltips are available
[13:05] <ali1234> rounded menus?
[13:05] <yofel> hm, what do I have to install on kubuntu to get gnome-shell running besides gnome-shell?
[13:07] <zniavre> http://i.imgur.com/WE9tV.png fake rounded menus in unity gnome3
[13:10] <triunity> Well, after doing some reading, if classic isn't a real option, before i try kde, i may just use Linux Mint (which is really just ubuntu + gnome2)
[13:10] <BluesKaj> yofel, check your package manager after typing in gnome-shell , mark it for installation , then scroll down the list ...about 7-8 other apps come with it
[13:10] <yofel> well, let's see
[13:11] <triunity> Anyway, its been a pleasure!  Talk at you all later
[13:17] <yofel> bah, forgot to install a gtk3 theme
[13:17] <yofel> and something's off with the font rendering in gnome o.O
[13:18] <ali1234> lol no
[13:19] <ali1234> you are just used to the brokenness of KDE
[13:19] <yofel> well, it's like the antialiasing setting is turned to MAX, which looks totally ugly on my thinkpad
[13:19] <yofel> and is hard to read
[13:19] <ali1234> turn it off then
[13:19] <yofel> where?
[13:19] <ali1234> appearence settings
[13:20] <Lynoure> BluesKaj: (delay) thanks, I'll try that when back home
[13:20] <yofel> ali1234: can't find them
[13:22] <yofel> hm, alt+f2 is totally useless somehow, I type 'gnome-tweak-tool' and get command not found @_@
[13:22] <ali1234> what is gnome-tweakt-tool
[13:22] <Ian_Corne> a tool to tweak gnome!
[13:22] <Ian_Corne> :D
[13:22] <yofel> gnome 3's config center
[13:23] <ali1234> no
[13:23] <ali1234> that is called gnome-control-center
[13:23] <ali1234> unless they renamed it
[13:23] <Ian_Corne> yofel: works for me in unity 2D
[13:23] <yofel> Ian_Corne: I'm in gnome-shell
[13:24] <coz_> ali1234,   http://live.gnome.org/GnomeTweakTool
[13:24] <Ian_Corne> aha yofel
[13:24] <yofel> ah yeah, well, gnome-control-center has no appearance settings
[13:24] <ali1234> http://imagebin.org/168094
[13:25] <ali1234> they must have deleted it
[13:26] <yofel> ali1234: isn't there
[13:26] <ali1234> well, what can i say? gnome3 sucks
[13:27] <ali1234> linux no longer has a usable and maintained desktop environment
[13:27] <yofel> KDE
[13:27] <ali1234> hahaha
[13:28] <coz_> ali1234,  other distributions are still using gnome2  ie   linuxmint
[13:28] <yofel> well, I'll try to spend a while to get gnome-shell to look like what the gnome folks had at desktop summit
[13:28] <yofel> currently I'm rather far off...
[13:28] <ali1234> coz_: nobody is maintaining gnome2
[13:28] <ali1234> not in a serious and workable way
[13:29] <coz_> ali1234,  there are several forks ,, not sure how well they are doing   bluebubble for fedora as an example
[13:29] <yofel> gnome2 will stay around for a while longer. I mean.. you can still get kde3 distros these days
[13:29] <coz_> yofel,  is there a screenshot of what they had at desktop summit?
[13:29] <yofel> coz_: not sure, on some blog sure, I don't have one
[13:30] <coz_> yofel,  ok no biggie,, I would like to see it so I will search around :)
[13:35] <jo-erlend> has there been any discussion about adding the possibility to enable "People nearby" for the first user on install? If that's a feature that Apples users think is awesome, then it would make sense to make it more visible in Ubuntu too, right?
[13:36] <yofel> what the hell is that?
[13:37] <jo-erlend> yofel, so that you can chat with or send files to people on the same network without any configuration.
[13:37] <jo-erlend> Apple calls it AirDrop.
[13:37] <yofel> ah, I'm not an apple user so never heard of it
[13:38] <yofel> well, could be interesting I guess
[13:39] <jo-erlend> in Ubuntu, it's called People Nearby. It's been available as an account type in Empathy for a long time, but people haven't been aware of it. But if Apple makes a large point of it, then we might as well add a checkbox in the installer just to show that we're just as cool, right? :)
[13:39] <yofel> ok, with hinting setting fixed this is readable now
[13:40] <jo-erlend> hehe, readable, but not comprehensible. :)
[13:45] <ali1234> is there some way to make apport just automatically report bugs without any input from me?
[13:45] <ali1234> because it is now just popping up alerts saying "system problem. do you want to report?"
[13:46] <ali1234> there was no visible problem so there is nothing i can usefully add to the bug report
[13:47] <yofel> ali1234: that's usually a kernel problem so the logs will have something useful, but no, there's no automated way to report bugs yet
[13:48] <ali1234> it isn't
[13:48] <ali1234> it was a crash in fontconfig-voodoo
[13:48] <ali1234> already reported
[13:48] <ali1234> but i had to click through several dialogs to find that out
[13:48] <ali1234> why waste my time?
[13:48] <ali1234> apport could have checked that without asking me
[13:49] <yofel> well, not implemented yet I guess and I don't know if it would require changing something in launchpad
[14:01] <ali1234> what do you call that new resizing handle in the bottom right corner?
[14:06] <ali1234> what's a good app for when i just need to quickly edit a screenshot to eg, circle the bug in red?
[14:06] <ali1234> gimp seems like overkill and doesn't work too well with unity on a netbook
[14:06] <ali1234> seems like by default we don't get an image editor at all
[14:12] <zniavre> activate blur in dash make translucide panel wrong no?
[14:30] <drussell> apart from the release notes for alpha3, is there another good place to look for current "yes don't worry we know X, Y and Z are broken, we're working on it"
[15:28] <bjsnider> drussell, launchpad, look up all of the oneiric bugs and their status
[15:29] <bjsnider> !launchpad
[15:29] <Pici> all of them!?
[15:32] <drussell> bjsnider / ubottu : sure I'm very familiar, I just wondered if ubuntu had something similar to... http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Common_F15_bugs
[15:32] <drussell> s/familiar/familiar with launchpad/
[15:39] <BluesKaj> keyring pw popups out of nowhere ...any ideas , thinking it might be ubuntuone ?
[15:50] <bjsnider> Pici, it sounded to me like he had one particular bug in mind, although you can order the list by severity and track the ones of greatest concern
[15:50] <Pici> bjsnider: I know :)
[15:57] <bjsnider> drussell, i think there should be a site like that for ubuntu, and i think you should add it to the brainstorm site for consideration
[16:28] <drussell> bjsnider: submitted ;o) Idea #28415
[17:49] <WelshDragon> Do you still need to leave 1mb free at the beginning of the disk to workaround the btrfs/grub bug when just have one / btrfs partition? Or did that bug get fixed a while ago?
[17:51] <topyli> should we have include information in the /topic here about what is known to be broken? like #debian-next does on OFTC
[17:52] <topyli> easier to know not to apply updates that day :
[17:57] <Pici> topyli: We usually do.
[17:58] <topyli> Pici: ah ok. i haven't run ubuntu+1 for a few years now so i'm out of touce
[17:58] <topyli> and thouch
[17:58] <Pici> and touch
[17:58] <topyli> maybe even that!
[18:00] <escott> does anyone know if there is any documentation for the accountsservice program
[18:53] <trism> escott: I haven't been able to find much documentation, but there is a dbus api reference to the service if you build the source with: XMLTO_FLAGS='--skip-validation' ./autogen.sh --enable-docbook-docs; make; which is in doc/dbus/AccountsService.html (don't seem to be built with the packages since it fails validation and kills the build)
[19:30] <bullgard4_> How can I delete all games in GNOME 3 permanently?
[19:31] <urlin2u> bullgard4, in synaptic is where I go
[19:38] <bullgard4_> urlin2u: That's what I have done in the past too. --  Done. --  Thank you.
[19:38] <urlin2u> bullgard4, cool. ;-)
[19:44] <bullgard4_> GNOME 3 offers a new program "Backup". There is no Help implemented. What program package is it from?
[19:47] <trism> bullgard4_: I believe it is deja-dup : http://live.gnome.org/DejaDup
[19:48] <bullgard4_> trism: Snoooping around, I just came to the same conclusion. --  Thank you.
[19:50] <jbicha> bullgard4_: Deja Dup is not officially part of Gnome 3 but Fedora ships it too, but it is new for it to be included by default in Oneiric
[19:53] <bullgard4_> jbicha: Thank you for your information. --  It seems to be targetting to newcomers.
[19:53] <jbicha> bullgard4_: I believe it's supposed to have Ubuntu One integration too but that didn't seem to work for me yet
[19:54] <dr_willis> Hmm. after all the updates i just installed.. unity seems a lot flakier. :()
[19:54] <dr_willis> Ubuntu One needs to be leveraged more. :) its a really handy service
[20:07] <bullgard4_> dr_willis: Do you mean 'flaky [coll.] - unreliable'?
[20:07] <dr_willis> taking 4 min to startup, top left button thang not showing,    unity --reset  just crashed...  back to gnome-shell for now.
[20:08] <bullgard4_> I see. (I am trying to dodge Unity.)
[20:09] <dr_willis> yea. I just dont see it improveing much...
[20:10] <dr_willis> it has potential.. but theres just other stuff out that will blow right past it.
[20:10] <kyubutsu> that's kinda what i said months ago already!  :o
[20:11] <dr_willis> months ago was premature.. :P
[20:11]  * kyubutsu watches nervously as muon dutyfully finishes its first system update/upgrade
[20:12] <dr_willis> at least give them the benifit of some time to get somt stuff going.. but.. well.. so far its not panned out. :()    not seeing the neat features leveraged (yet) and the annoynaces are not getting ironed out.. (yet)  but who knows.. there maybe some Major updates befor release..
[20:12] <bullgard4_> kyubutsu: I trust it will survive. My Oneric is surprisingly stable.
[20:13] <ali1234> unity won't take off until they ditch global menu
[20:13] <ali1234> and gnome3 won't take off until they ditch the everything
[20:14] <kyubutsu> systemwise, oneiric is rock solid on my kde. and now i just officially got my 3.0.0 kernel , need reboot
[20:14] <dr_willis> I still see all this 'research' papers and so forth on gui design that havce some very good idea and make sence.. that totally get ignored.. :)
[20:14] <kyubutsu> unity's problem isnt in the global menu
[20:15] <dr_willis> Like in gnome-shell, top left corner shows all apps.. handy makes sence.. but then i have to move back down over the appliucations 'button' to show apps..  why cant the bottom left corner do that..  and save me more time..
[20:15] <kyubutsu> i got used to it rather quickly.. works , as long as you keep track of apps properly
[20:16] <dr_willis> global menu is neat in ways and annoying in ways. :) trend seems like in chrome to get away from a huge menu panel listing anyway.. so the gain from global menu may be minimal in the future.
[20:16] <traskers> I'm wondering if someone could help me get my sound working again?
[20:17] <bullgard4_> !sound | traskers
[20:17] <kyubutsu> well.. first question is what system you using
[20:18] <traskers> +1, running Openbox as my WM.
[20:18] <traskers> Hm, somehow it got muted beyond my normal control.. Had to load gnome-sound-applet and un-mute it from within that. Normally muting/un-muting didn't work :\
[20:19] <kyubutsu> now the differences between kde and unity [or gnome] as even more apparent. entirely different ways to tackle issues
[20:19] <traskers> That's embarrassing..
[20:19] <kyubutsu> i use kde. so cannot assist you really..   :(
[20:20] <traskers> Gonna re-load my session quick to make sure it doesn't mute itself on login.. Be right back. And thaks for the help :)
[20:21] <traskers> And it's fixed. That was weird.. Heh. Thanks though :)
[20:21] <kyubutsu> to be honest, i expected unity to be more intuitive. and THAt, is a gui fail against it
[20:21] <topyli> kyubutsu: sound is sound, kde or no kde :)
[20:21] <traskers> Now if only I could figure out why PCManFM won't load..
[20:22] <kyubutsu> topyli: am not as gnomish as you
[20:23] <topyli> heh
[20:23] <dr_willis> i spend so much time on my android phone.. i get where i expect the pc to work in a similer way.. :)
[20:24] <kyubutsu> this whole 'one interface for all' deal is responsible for unity
[20:24] <kyubutsu> i blame dr_willis
[20:25] <kyubutsu> :-P
[20:25] <dr_willis> I blame Society!
[20:25] <dr_willis> Its a Social Disease.. :)
[20:26] <dr_willis> I really dont see why unity is going to be so great on tablets, or other 'things'   but who can tell...
[20:27] <kjeldahl> Anybody else running latest oneiric alpha having two task/windows selectors (alt-tab) active?
[20:28] <kyubutsu> check this: qt vs python for mobile devices, i think qt is winning that battle for good reason
[20:28] <Pici> kjeldahl: someone mentioned it the other day.
[20:28] <kjeldahl> Possibly me. :-)
[20:29] <kyubutsu> yknow what, i see it too
[20:29] <kjeldahl> Very annyoing.
[20:29] <kyubutsu> its a 'feature'
[20:30] <kyubutsu> i find it odd more than annoying   /shrugs
[20:30] <kjeldahl> It's annoying, because you newer quite know which one wins (the one beneath has a desktop window as well, so they do not sync up).
[20:31] <kyubutsu> i could bet it'll be fixed before final , right topyli?  o.0    /stares
[20:31] <topyli> i sure hope so! :)
[20:32] <dr_willis> Im impressed at how well the modal-dialog box tweaks are working...    anyone seen any issues with it in any apps?
[20:33] <kyubutsu> otherwise this bug does not cost me any productivity, the function still works as intended
[20:33] <kyubutsu> kjeldahl: go with the 'front' one.. thats the one that matters
[20:34] <kjeldahl> kyubutsu: I really do not care which one "wins", just select one! ;-)
[20:36] <dr_willis> anyone else using gnome-shell right now? want to double check, if you  go to the top left, then applications,  type 'x' and see if xchat shows up? its not showing here...
[20:37] <topyli> dr_willis: nor here, but that's might be because i don't have xchat :)
[20:37] <dr_willis> i notices similer thing in unity. but cant check there right now..
[20:37] <dr_willis> wondering if  its a xchat .desktop file issue. or somthing deeper.
[20:38] <topyli> either that, or some more general menu problem
[20:40] <trism> dr_willis: I was having the same issue with virtualbox and d-feet yesterday, the .desktop files seem to be fine though because they started showing up when I copied them to ~/.local/share/applications/ (just installed xchat it was the same thing, but I see it now after copying it)
[20:42] <bullgard4_> dr_willis: "[22:36]	<dr_willis>	anyone else using gnome-shell right now? want to double check, if you go to the top left, then applications, type 'x' and see if xchat shows up? its not showing here..." <-- With me not, eiter.
[20:42] <bullgard4_> +h
[20:43] <dr_willis> yea. its getting where all these apps need special support files for the desktop launchers to see them. I can see a lot slipping through the cracks..
[20:43] <dr_willis> bullgard4,  also notice its 'odd' if i lauch xchat from the ternmal and pin it to the gnomeshell left side panel/favortes.. it dosent seem to stick/launch properly
[20:44] <bullgard4_> hm. Seems to be a xchat peculiarity. --  (But I am not using XChat.)
[20:44] <dr_willis> I think i noticed it with some other app the other day.. but cant ermber what one.
[20:52] <topyli> did anyone test epiphany yet? does flash work?
[20:57] <kyubutsu_kde> converserly, rekonq is showing tons of improvement for me.
[21:00] <kyubutsu_kde> i usually just go ahead and install chromium .. but this vanilla test has been exciting so far
[21:01] <kyubutsu_kde> :D
[21:03] <kyubutsu_kde> now, not all flash works equally under rekonq, but if one is to measure flash by how well youtube works, i think its pretty solid
[21:04] <kyubutsu_kde> the 'install third party software and updates while installing' option worked each of the 3 times i did it
[21:06] <kyubutsu_kde> and i mean, system install
[21:07] <kyubutsu_kde> sometimes i wonder if folk know they can get a connection from livecd before installing
[21:08] <ali1234> kyubutsu_kde: since it no longer boots directly to a desktop, that option is slightly harder to find
[21:10] <kyubutsu_kde> just boot into a session [try before install option] , once in it, you can connect to a wifi network as usual
[21:11] <kyubutsu_kde> then run the installer and it will keep the connection alive thru the install process
[21:12] <kyubutsu_kde> thats how i roll, cause moving this behemoth around isnt quite practical
[21:12] <topyli> rekonq seemed nice when i played with kde for a while, but i couldn't figure out how to use bookmarklets
[21:14] <topyli> much like epiphany really, nice browser
[21:16] <kyubutsu_kde> chromium shows you 'most visited' in new tab, rekonq uses the same format except 'most visited' turns into your actual bookmark manager. while you can leave less important bookmarks to the side in the bookmarks toolbar
[21:23]  * kyubutsu_kde bookmarks xkcd in front page
[21:25] <Hegomire> hi, I have a problem in ubuntu 11.10, is this the right place to ask for help?
[21:26] <Pici> Yessir
[21:26] <Hegomire> I can not connect to internet.
[21:26] <dr_willis> basic info like.. how you are connecting, chipset, and so forth.. would be handy. :)
[21:27] <Hegomire> oh... um
[21:27] <Hegomire> wired connection,
[21:27] <Hegomire> I dont know how to check hardware info in windows
[21:28] <kyubutsu_kde> Hegomire: desktop environment?
[21:28] <Hegomire> Gnome 3 - Unity
[21:28] <Hegomire> it's a fresh install
[21:28] <Hegomire> daily build
[21:28] <Hegomire> downloaded 2 hours ago
[21:29] <Hegomire> I'm currently in Win7 as I cannot conect with Oneiric
[21:29] <kyubutsu_kde> you have access to it or this is dual boot?
[21:29] <Hegomire> dual boot
[21:31] <Hegomire> I'm trully sorry for not making things easier. :/
[21:32] <Hegomire> Oh, im using a laptop. Toshiba L670.
[21:33] <kyubutsu_kde> thats odd. could you connect via wifi ?
[21:33] <Hegomire> I don't know, there are no wireless networks around.
[21:34] <kyubutsu_kde> most routers are wifi enabled these days
[21:34] <Hegomire> The card is Broadacom 802.11n
[21:35] <kyubutsu_kde> you get a network applet at all?
[21:35] <Hegomire> yes
[21:35] <kyubutsu_kde> does it look 'disabled' or normal?
[21:36] <Hegomire> when I plug in the ethernet cable ubuntu tries to connect, also the menu looks normal
[21:36] <kyubutsu_kde> so , there is an error message. what does it say
[21:37] <Hegomire> disconnected from wired 1 or somethink like that, looks just like if you would unplug the ethernet cable
[21:38] <kyubutsu_kde> looks dead. i see
[21:38] <kyubutsu_kde> you might need to reinstall your network manager
[21:39] <kyubutsu_kde> have you attempted to reconfigure it ?
[21:39] <Hegomire> no, but I tried installing alpha 3, but there was no change
[21:39] <Hegomire> *tried to install = live cd boot
[21:40] <kyubutsu_kde> you had this same issue on a different system version?
[21:40] <Hegomire> do you have any terminal commands for me that would help you to better understand my problem. I can save the output in txt file and copy it to windows...
[21:41] <Hegomire> 11.04 worked fine
[21:42] <Hegomire> I would file a bug, but my connection is down. :)
[21:42] <kyubutsu_kde> !network | Hegomire
[21:42] <kyubutsu_kde> start with that
[21:43] <Hegomire> ok
[21:43] <Hegomire> brb
[21:45] <kyubutsu_kde> that wasnt quite the link i wanted to put out
[21:45] <kyubutsu_kde> http://www.ubuntugeek.com/how-to-troubleshoot-wireless-network-connection-in-ubuntu.html
[21:45] <kyubutsu_kde> this has better info pertaining the wired network troubleshoot
[21:45] <kyubutsu_kde> :(
[21:46] <kyubutsu_kde> grr
[21:47] <kyubutsu_kde> i think his driver needs proper config
[21:47] <kyubutsu_kde> but why
[21:52] <Hegomire> back
[21:52] <Hegomire> !network
[21:52] <Hegomire> action not found
[21:53] <Hegomire> problem is not with my wireless
[21:53] <kyubutsu_kde> i spotted that.. try this:
[21:53] <kyubutsu_kde> http://www.ubuntugeek.com/how-to-troubleshoot-wireless-network-connection-in-ubuntu.html
[21:53] <kyubutsu_kde> oops..
[21:54]  * kyubutsu_kde facepalm
[21:54] <dr_willis> heh...
[21:54] <dr_willis> so its a basic wired network card connecting to what exactly?
[21:54] <Hegomire> to my internet modem-router thingy
[21:55] <dr_willis> just a wire from theback of the nic. to the cable-modem then? not a DSL/ADSL modem?
[21:55] <Hegomire> plug it in -> instant connection, no password or thing
[21:56] <Hegomire> not a modem
[21:56] <dr_willis> did it work in the earlier ubuntu releases?
[21:56] <Hegomire> yes
[21:56] <Hegomire> flawlessly
[21:56] <dr_willis> makes me wonder if its a module/issue for the nic. or a network config issue..
[21:57] <dr_willis> you could boot a live cd, check what module the nic is using,   then boot the installed system. make sure the same module is loaded.
[21:57] <Hegomire> I have a desktop PC with 11.10 and it has no problems
[21:57] <kyubutsu_kde> but there is no real error message.. then sounds like a misconfigured driver
[21:57] <dr_willis> its all about the chipset of the nic.. or config..  id think...  with the new kernel it could be  a driver/moduile issue for the nic.
[21:58] <dr_willis> time to figure out what NIC is in that thang.
[21:58] <Hegomire> ok, tell me how
[21:58] <dr_willis> but if you havce 2 pc's are they both going into a ROUTER? then to the modem?
[21:59] <kyubutsu_kde> lshw -C network will output some relevant info
[21:59] <Hegomire> It's some combination of both, or whathave you. I use it to access internet directly, but I also can use it acces my home network of devices attached to it
[21:59] <dr_willis> lsmod will show what modules are loaded also.
[22:00] <Hegomire> so lsmod and lshw -C then?
[22:01] <dr_willis> yea. you may want to pastebin both those..
[22:01] <dr_willis> and jot down the url.
[22:01] <kyubutsu_kde> lshw -C network
[22:01] <Hegomire> so is that 'lshw -C network' or 'lshw -C'
[22:01] <Hegomire> oh, ok
[22:02] <Hegomire> what url?
[22:02] <kyubutsu_kde> otherwise it will display way more than needed
[22:02] <kyubutsu_kde> we only want network related stuf
[22:02] <kyubutsu_kde> he means , pipe the output of those commands to pastebin
[22:03] <kyubutsu_kde> !pastebin
[22:03] <Hegomire> oh, ok cool
[22:03] <Hegomire> brb
[22:06] <kyubutsu_kde> lshw means list hardware..
[22:06] <kyubutsu_kde> ls hw
[22:13] <utusan> any gnome-shell gurus here?  where is the data coming from for the applications window?  It'
[22:13] <dr_willis> hmm.
[22:13] <utusan> I created one in /usr/bin and it's not showing
[22:14] <Hegomire> back
[22:14] <utusan> I also have created an app.desktop in /usr/share/applications
[22:14] <dr_willis> vrious .desktop files i think  utusan
[22:14] <kyubutsu_kde> also, resetting the hardware [known as cold boot] is an acceptable troubleshoot action but, you already can connect on a different system .   :-/
[22:14] <dr_willis> may need som,e way to rescan them. I notivced xchat is missing.. but its installed
[22:14] <Hegomire> here is the output of lshw -c network: http://paste.ubuntu.com/667718/
[22:15] <utusan> funny thing is I renamed one to something else and the old one still showing but not the new one
 dr_willis: I was having the same issue with virtualbox and d-feet yesterday, the .desktop files seem to be fine though because they started showing up when I copied them to ~/.local/share/applications/ (just installed xchat it was the same thing, but I see it now after copying it)
[22:15] <dr_willis> we had a chat about it earlier utusan
[22:15] <Hegomire> and lsmod: http://paste.ubuntu.com/667720/
[22:16] <utusan> I know and that's how I got the old one to show.  But since renaming it to something else it's broken
[22:17] <utusan> dr_willis, how do I force GS to re-scan?
[22:17] <dr_willis> utusan,  no idea.. logout/back in perhaps.. :)
[22:18] <utusan> dr_willis, I used gnome-desktop-edit and it showed but it's not showing after reboot
[22:19] <Hegomire> so, any idea what might be wrong?
[22:19] <kyubutsu_kde> Hegomire: your hardware seems fine really . dr_willis, you spot anything wierd in that lsmod?
[22:20] <dr_willis> kyubutsu_kde,  i cant even tell which one is his network card. :) but if its not working.. it may not be loaded...
[22:20] <dr_willis> now as a test.. boot an older live cd., check the nic make sure its working.. check lsmod output to the nonworking list..
[22:21] <Hegomire> what is nic?
[22:22] <dr_willis> Network InterFace Card.
[22:23] <kyubutsu_kde> actually , r8169 [your driver] shows an odd output at the end [in lsmod]
[22:23] <utusan> Hegomire, on a terminal do sudo rmmod r8169 && sudo modprobe r8169
[22:23] <dr_willis> so its a realtek 8169 - thats a good clue. :)
[22:23] <kyubutsu_kde> like no module is using it
[22:24] <kyubutsu_kde> its a kernel bug
[22:24] <kyubutsu_kde> :o
[22:25] <utusan> I have r8169 and this happens everytime.  just rmmod and then modprobe again
[22:25] <kyubutsu_kde> do as utusan sais
[22:25] <Hegomire> ok, ill try that, thanks utusan
[22:26] <utusan> Hegomire, np..I think there is still problems on upstart? or whatever is loading the modules
[22:27] <kyubutsu_kde> dr_willis: your test is good , but i think Hegomire is itching to get online more than running an investigation report
[22:27] <kyubutsu_kde> heh
[22:28] <dr_willis> sounds like a kernel bug to me. so not sure what else to day other then hope it gets fixed soon. :)
[22:34] <Hegomire> ok, so that did not work
[22:35] <Hegomire> first i got disconnected
[22:35] <Hegomire> then it started connecting again, but without success
[22:37] <Hegomire> so, it's a kernel bug
[22:37] <dr_willis> sounds like it
[22:37] <Hegomire> does that mean I'll have to wait for .9 ?
[22:38] <dr_willis> no idea
[22:38] <dr_willis> try older kernels - see if the issue is in them as well.. check the bug reports see if theres any info on that NIC issue
[22:39] <Hegomire> ok, thanks guys, i'll check it out
[22:39] <Hegomire> hsvr s nice one
[22:39] <Hegomire> *have a nice one
[22:42] <kyubutsu_kde> !bug
[22:42] <kyubutsu_kde> :(
[23:29] <dr_willis> Hmm
[23:29] <dr_willis> df -h --->
[23:29] <dr_willis> df: `/var/lib/lightdm/.gvfs': Permission denied
[23:29] <dr_willis> is it a little odd that the login manager is running gvfs?
[23:31] <goto> hi, I think about to use Alpha3 on my Laptop. Is Alpha3 more or less stable like Debian testing? Or are Kernel-Panic common?
[23:32] <dr_willis> ive not seen any kernel panics in any of the alphas ive tested.
[23:32] <goto> ok
[23:32] <dr_willis> occasional bug/issue - but never anythin gthat severe
[23:33] <goto> dr_willis: do you use alpha3 on a productive machine?
[23:33] <dr_willis> goto,  I have no machines at all that i would call productive.. :)
[23:33] <dr_willis> Unless you count my 'boxee box' :)
[23:33] <goto> k
[23:33] <dr_willis> just a home user.  so it dose3nt matter a lot to me.
[23:34] <goto> dr_willis: gnome3 is in the repo for alpha3?
[23:34] <dr_willis> using gnome3 right now.
[23:34] <goto> and if the rc1, rc2 and "stable" come, i can update just with dist-upgrade?
[23:34] <dr_willis> gnome-shell is nifty. but lacking in ways.
[23:34] <goto> what is lacking for example? :)
[23:34] <dr_willis> of course you can upgrade/update.
[23:35] <goto> k
[23:35] <dr_willis> I cant even figure out how to change the basic theme in g-s. lots of settings are just not there.. theres also 'design' flaws.. :)
[23:35] <goto> yeah, but thats lack of gnome3 not of the alpha3, or?
[23:36] <goto> btw. do you know if Gnome3.2 will be in Ubuntu 11.10?
[23:36]  * yofel runs +1 on his production notebook, but has backups and a fallback natty install
[23:36] <goto> okay
[23:36] <dr_willis> goto,  theres a feature freeze right now.. not sure if that means versions are frozen also.. check the release schedule.
[23:36] <dr_willis> !release
[23:36] <dr_willis> !schedule
[23:37] <yofel> as long as you can live with the system suddenly being totally unusable you can use +1
[23:37] <dr_willis> http://live.gnome.org/GnomeShell/FAQ gotta love a faq that uses sooo many buzzword type terms..
[23:37] <yofel> as that can pretty much happen at any time
[23:37] <goto> yofel: how often do you got an unusable sys?
[23:38] <dr_willis> we just hit 'featurefreeze' it seems --> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FeatureFreeze
[23:39] <yofel> maybe twice during the devel cycle. At least for oneiric we had broken keyboard and mouse input in X quite a while ago, and the nvidia driver didn't work right for a while
[23:39] <yofel> other than that it works resonably fine here
[23:40] <yofel> after alpha3 things don't break that much usually, but with people getting very new stuff in with feature freeze exceptions there's still a risk for the system breaking until beta
[23:42] <yofel> goto: let's say if you at least know how to use a terminal and know how to check log files from a TTY when X fails to start you should be fine. Then you know enough of the basics so we here can help you
[23:43] <goto> okay
[23:44] <goto> thank you yofel && dr_willis :)
[23:44] <goto> I will install alpha3 tomorrow
[23:44] <Ian_Corne> ubuntu+1 heroes!
[23:44] <yofel> and another alpha tester aquired :P
[23:44] <Ian_Corne> haha
[23:45] <Ian_Corne> one of us, one of us!
[23:46] <Ian_Corne> anyone here with a dual monitor setup (of different resolution) on 11.10?
[23:47] <goto> Ian_Corne: at tomorrow yes. ;)
[23:47] <Ian_Corne> ok, nvidia or ati?
[23:47] <goto> 1680x1050 and 1024x768
[23:47] <goto> Ian_Corne: intel or ati
[23:47] <Ian_Corne> awesome
[23:47] <goto> Ian_Corne: any problems?
[23:47] <Ian_Corne> my last non 11.10 system is ATI
[23:48] <Ian_Corne> can't get dual screen to work on 11.04
[23:48] <Ian_Corne> so might as well try 11.10 :)
[23:48] <goto> on debian testing i have no problems
[23:48] <Ian_Corne> unity?
[23:48] <Ian_Corne> ;-)
[23:48] <goto> :/
[23:48] <Ian_Corne> well, i doubt it has anything to do with unity tho