=== jjesse__ is now known as jjesse
rick_h_http://www.clickondetroit.com/video/28876290/index.html wife made the news with a flash of the little techie11:37
rick_h_and morning11:37
DuolosGood morning, Ubuntites.11:40
DuolosHey, brousch11:42
DuolosThanks for the approval :)11:42
brouschheh, no problem. i must have been the first one awake this morning11:43
WolfgerLearning Rails 3 pre-release on O'R DotD11:47
snap-lWolfger: pass11:47
Wolfgerrick_h_: congrats on being married to a TV star :-)11:47
rick_h_Wolfger: heh11:48
snap-lBugger, I missed that last night11:48
rick_h_I went to bed11:49
rick_h_but saw it this morning11:49
rick_h_she did good in it, a little bit of the willow tree waving effect going on11:49
rick_h_but good11:49
brouschwillow tree waving?11:49
snap-lhttp://www.clickondetroit.com/health/28873714/detail.html ?11:49
rick_h_shen she talks she waves back/forth11:49
rick_h_yea, that's the link she sent me this morning for it11:50
snap-lYeah, you can tell she's a little nervous11:52
snap-lLove their edits11:52
snap-lYou can tell she was talking much more than they used11:53
rick_h_that's tv news spots I'd imagine11:53
Wolfgerfilm lots, edit down to "the good stuff"11:54
snap-lWolfger: You mean the soundbites.11:54
Wolfgerwhich is why it's dangerous for any fringe group to ever do a tv interview.... because "the good stuff" to the network is usually "what makes you sound batshit crazy"11:55
snap-l"I... think it's OK... to vaccinate... children"11:55
snap-lEvery TV program is a narrative. The editing room makes things fit that narrative.11:56
rick_h_well, yea they have to make it scary "OMG your kid might be missing stuff...and die!"11:57
rick_h_at least the part about me having the whooping cough got cut out11:57
snap-lof course.11:57
snap-lGrateful they didn't put in that you had whooping cough11:57
snap-lstrategic edit. ;)11:57
rick_h_yea, but makes for a great "See, even this Dr's moronic husband can fall prey to this crap"11:58
snap-lrick_h_: Not moronic... you just happen to be a magnet for this stuff.11:59
brouschDuolos: where are you located?12:19
DuolosGrand Rapids12:19
DuolosNot a lot of meetings out this way :-/12:20
brouschum, you're kidding right?12:20
brouschweekly linux social12:20
brouschtomorrow night12:20
DuolosI didn't see anything on the official page.12:20
DuolosGuess I didn't look hard enough :)12:20
brouschah, no ubuntu meetings, but plenty of linux12:21
DuolosI see a lot of meetings for detroit.12:21
brouschtomorrow night 7-10 in jenison, beer if you want it12:21
DuolosHonestly, I haven't looked into it too much.  I'd love to get together with other linux users, but would feel a bit out of place since they usually seem to be developers and I'm not.12:22
DuolosWell, I'd love to, but I work 3rd shift.12:22
brouschwell sign up for the GRLUG mailing list to get announcements and such12:22
DuolosWhere would I go to keep up with when those meetings are happening?12:22
DuolosNevermind :)12:22
Duolosalright, I'll find it12:22
brouschThere's a big geek conference coming up this weekend, BarCampGR12:23
brouschfriday evening and saturday, 30 minute talks on whatever people want to talk about12:23
DuolosHmm... the main GRLUG page redirects to a broken link; just in case you know the admin12:23
brouschDuolos: yeah, i just saw that12:23
brouschthe grlug web page is a ghetto12:24
brouschthe mailing list is active though12:24
DuolosAlright.  Just signed up for it.12:24
brouschi may tackle it after i revamp the gr python page12:24
Duolosheh... I'm continually disappointed in websites for so-called "tech-savvy" people12:25
brouschwell to make it purty you need a designer12:25
DuolosYeah, I s'pose12:25
brouschso you're an admin?12:26
DuolosNoooo.  Just a desktop user.12:26
DuolosUnless you consider providing unlimited tech support for anyone that hears I "know computers" an admin12:26
brouschthat's how it starts ;)12:27
DuolosOh, I know it.  Do it for free once and suddenly you're locked into it for life.12:27
brouschThere are a ton of tech meetings in grand rapids, unfortunately most of them are from 6PM - 9PM on week days12:28
DuolosOh, wow.  Yeah, I didn't think there'd be that much interest.12:29
DuolosI do miss the days of BBS get together's, though, and have been itching to get back into that kind of community.12:29
DuolosAnyway, thank you for the info!12:32
brouschhope to see you at one of the meetings12:33
brouscheven if you just drop by for a few minutes, stop in to say hi12:34
DuolosI'll try to plan on it whenever I get the time off.12:34
DuolosIs there like a secret handshake so I know I introduce myself to the right group of people? :)12:34
brouschno, just find me12:34
brouschor jump in to any conversation12:35
DuolosSo walk in and announce that I'm looking for Broush.  Got it :)12:35
DuolosI'll think of some way to get there soon.  I assume you're in GR too, then?12:36
Duolosalright, then.  Hopefully I'll run into you soon.12:37
nullspacerick_h_: in your woodworking ever run into a tool that required 20amps?13:09
=== jjesse_ is now known as jjesse
rick_h_nullspace: sure, all the time13:15
rick_h_my table saw on startup can blow a 20amp breaker13:16
rick_h_had to go to 4013:16
jrwrensnap-l: escalate issue with luanchpad??/ this is open source... you don't get to escalate.13:17
jrwrenor... go buy commercial support from canonical13:17
jrwrenbrousch: zomg, you have 3 boys???13:19
brouschjrwren: only 1 that i know of13:19
jrwrenlol, oh.13:19
jrwrenoh it was rick_h_'s dr. wife on the news, not your wife with the kids.13:20
jrwrenman... vaccines are a scam.13:20
jrwrenvaccines don't actually do what they say. they are actually docility drugs adn infertility drugs that the aliens controlling our government urge us to take.13:21
Wolfger<roll eyes/>13:21
brouschis that why the birthrate is falling and sales of Yanni's music are at an all-time high?13:21
rick_h_jrwren: you'd be suprised how often my wife hears that13:22
rick_h_nothing breaks a dr's heart like seeing a little guy with parents that refuse to get the shots13:22
nullspacewoah woah woah, Yanni sales are at an all time high?13:22
nullspacerick_h_: I call it natural selection13:22
jrwreni wish my wife had the balls to refuse the shots.13:23
DuolosHmm  I thought autism has been traced directly to vaccines.13:23
jrwrenDuolos: nope, that was all lies.13:23
rick_h_Duolos: NO13:23
DuolosIn fact, it has been.13:23
jrwrenDuolos: no, it hasn't.13:23
rick_h_and again NO13:23
DuolosLies?  In medical journals?13:23
Duoloslol NEVER13:23
rick_h_believe it13:23
jrwrenDuolos: Jenny McCarthy is just a nutter.13:23
DuolosI... don't know anything about jenny McCarthy13:23
rick_h_unless you have a stats degree you can't believe anything in a medical journal13:23
nullspaceDuolos: that's call quack science, studies take years to produce viable results13:23
rick_h_welcome to the world of "must get published to show I did work/keep job"13:23
jrwrenDuolos: she was a huge proponent that vaccines cause autism. there is NO scientific evidence of this.13:24
rick_h_casusation, correlation, etc13:24
* jrwren moves into serious mode.13:24
Duolosjrwren: oh dear13:24
DuolosDid I stumble into #liberalism? ;)13:24
rick_h_yea, don't perpetrate the urban myth please13:24
jrwrenhuh? certainly not.13:24
jrwrenbut again: there is no evidence.13:24
nullspaceDuolos: no you stumbled in a room full of science nerds13:24
rick_h_no, you stumbled upon people that watch the news and don't actually think about what they're told13:24
rick_h_well, the oposite of that13:24
Duoloseh... can't believe much of what's on the news anymore.13:25
jjessewow i look away from this channel and it goes all crazy :P13:25
jrwrenyeah, one of whom is married to a Dr.... the other of whom is married to a phd abt human geneticist who went to med school :)13:25
nullspacejjesse: rawr!13:25
DuolosI miss the days when anchors told the news instead of interpreting it for us13:25
rick_h_then treat any medical journal article the same one13:25
Duolosjrwren: I find that a lot of doctors and "experts" don't have a clue what they're talking about :)13:25
rick_h_it's all about how the study was done, what the actual results show,13:25
jrwrendon't beleive ANYTHING on the news... if there was a new agency or a politician involves, its 99% lies.13:25
jjessei just believe what i read on the itnernet13:26
rick_h_lol, that's perfectly safe13:26
brouschi only believe jon stewart13:26
Duolosrick_h_: Right.  Like evolution.  There haven't been any studies because there CAN'T be and we can't produce results...13:26
jrwrenDuolos: agreed 100%.  doctors are just as dumb and incompetent as any other group of people.13:26
jjessethat and what steven colbert tells me13:26
rick_h_jrwren: amen!13:26
Duolosjrwren: and biased... they'll distort anything until they're right.13:26
jrwren"there haven't been any studies" <-- is false.13:26
rick_h_working at a medical school will shatter any notions of the mightly dr13:27
jrwrenevolution has been studied since Darwin13:27
Duolosjrwren: no no no.  No one has every studied evolution.  Because it happens to slowly to watch.13:27
jrwrenrick_h_: yup!  or going out drinking with med students :)13:27
rick_h_Duolos: jrwren is still on vaccines13:27
jrwreni am?13:27
jrwrenDuolos: i disagree.13:27
nullspacerick_h_: going to the court house adn watching a medical malpractiice suit will do the same thing13:27
rick_h_oh, figured you were :)13:27
Duolosjrwren: Just saying that taking a conclusion and then finding evidence to support it is the OPPOSITE of the scientific method.13:27
Duolosjrwren: And you're wrong :P13:28
jrwrenDuolos: no one has EXPERIMENTED with evolution... but STUDYING is what we ahve been doing since darwin.13:28
jrwrento say no one has studied evolution is a very ignorant statement.13:28
nullspaceok that's enough trolling13:28
Duolosjrwren: again, ya can't study something that happens too slowly to watch.  You can study your IDEAS or BELIEFS about what is happening, that's all.13:29
DuolosBut I digress13:29
Duolos:P yay linux and stuff!13:29
DuolosI just think it's funny that "scientists" will find one bone and tell us all about how early human ancestors raised their children. :P13:30
rick_h_yay for hyperbole!13:30
brouschwhat about viruses? they evolve all the time13:30
jrwrenDuolos: you are wrong.13:30
jrwrenDuolos: you can study ANYTHING.13:30
Duolosbrousch: from one form to another, not one species to another13:30
Duolosjrwren: I guess that all just comes down to how you define "study."  Maybe I'm using the wrong word for it, true.13:31
jrwrenyou seem to be.13:31
jrwrenlab mice have evolved to their own species.13:31
Wolfgerbeing unable to observe evolution != being unable to study it13:31
Wolfgerjrwren: ??? citation?13:32
Duolosjrwren: yeah... I didn't know there was a species known as "lab mouse"13:32
Duolosjrwren: on which page does it describe how it evolved from a different species?13:34
DuolosIt's a little too long for a quick read through13:34
jrwrentl dr13:34
DuolosOh, wait.  First sentence says it was "derived from the common house mouse."  So... it was still a mouse before.  Got it.13:34
Wolfgergrr. Something in the work firewall is mucking with that PDF. I'll have to read it later13:35
WolfgerDuolos: that's how evolution works13:35
DuolosThat was selective breeding and adaptation, not evolution.13:35
Wolfgeryou don't get mice from snails...13:35
jrwrennow you are redefining evolution.13:35
DuolosNo... actually, I wasn't defining evolution at all13:35
brouschnew species don't just pop out of nothing they evolve, change from another species13:36
jrwrenyou are eliminating selective breeding adn adaptation from its definition.13:36
DuolosI was pointing out that the article you posted talks about selective breeding and adaptation, not evolution.13:36
jrwrenthose two things are inherent in evolution13:36
jrwrenthrow in some mutation and there isn't much left to evolution13:36
DuolosExcept that "selective" suggests a "selector" of which evolution has none (by definition)13:36
brouschthe ecosystem is the selector13:37
Duolosoh wait. natural selection.  right.13:37
snap-lAnd good morning again.13:37
WolfgerEvolution: (Biology) change in the gene pool of a population from generation to generation by such processes as mutation, natural selection, and genetic drift.13:37
brouschthe conditions in the environment13:37
DuolosWolfger: I get that.  I was referring to "macroevolution," everything from nothing.13:38
Wolfgerconservation of mass... you can't get anything from nothing :-)13:38
brouschit's just evolution over a long time scale13:38
DuolosWolfger: exactly.13:38
Wolfgernobody's every said that you do13:38
DuolosBut everything must have a beginning.13:38
DuolosWolfger: nobody's EVER said that?13:39
brouschwhat's your beginning?13:39
Wolfgereverything must have a beginning? How do you figure that?13:39
DuolosWolfger: physics13:39
brouschin fact, everything is always changing13:39
DuolosEnergy, for example, can never be created or destroyed.13:39
DuolosSame with mass.13:40
Duoloserr matter13:40
brouschsure it can, its created in chemical and nuclear reactions13:40
snap-lPlease define energy13:40
WolfgerI see no proof for the statement that "everything must have a beginning", and you seem to be grabbing things out of thin air to argue against....13:40
Duolossnap-l: uhm... lemme google it for you lol13:40
rick_h_careful, I see snapl getting jodee involved here in a sec13:40
Duolossnap-l: The strength and vitality required for sustained physical or mental activity.13:41
snap-lOh yes, yes it will happen13:41
snap-lNo, it's the ability for something to do work13:41
Duolosbrousch: the energy isn't created in those instances... it just changes forms.13:41
rick_h_Duolos: man, you cause a lot of commotion for your first day lol13:41
Duolossnap-l: Email Google and tell them they lied ;)13:42
Duolosrick_h_: I walked in on a controversial topic and boom, I'm in :P13:42
snap-lI think you're looking at the Merriam Webster definition13:42
snap-lwhich isn't correct for a physics debate. :)13:42
Duolossnap-l: okay, email them then13:42
DuolosOh good grief, I just googled for a quick definition because you didn't know what "energy" meant lol if you already knew, don't ask13:42
rick_h_oh geeze13:42
brouschthe big bang is the current leading theory for the beginning of everything. 13 billion years is a long time. long enough to go from an explosion to people13:43
snap-lWell, I wanted everyone to be clear on the term Energy before using it13:43
Duolosbrousch: but still, something must have existed in order for it to explode.  so that still isn't the beginning... unless all the matter just always...was.13:43
snap-lphysicists get very irritated when people use energy as a synonym for other things.13:43
snap-lie: quantum energy13:44
brouschDuolos: there are some things that scientists do not have an answer for yet. that's what makes it so interesting13:44
Duolossnap-l: I was using energy more along the lines of Newton's laws13:44
snap-lDuolos: You might want to update your understanding of physics, then. :)13:44
DuolosAn object in motion, an object at rest, etc.  Stuff I can't forget from junior high :)13:44
snap-lQuantum / Relativity are fun. :)13:45
Duolossnap-l: oh, you mean the physical laws of the universe have changed in the past 15 years?  Or our understanding of them?13:45
Wolfgerheh. Appropos for the current mood of the channel: http://shirt.woot.com/shirts/shirts/university-wikipedius13:45
DuolosYeah... not gonna put all my faith and belief in some "smart guys" that change their minds every year :P13:45
brouschwho else is there?13:46
snap-lPlease read up on General Relativity and Quantum prior to engaging in debates on Evolution.13:46
rick_h_Wolfger: lmao13:46
DuolosWolfger: seems unavailable to me.13:46
WolfgerDuolos: you'd rather put your faith in dumb guys who never acknowledge new information?13:46
snap-lNewtonian physics is good as a broad brush for everyday activities, but it doesn't explain the cosmos, nor atomic phenomenon13:46
DuolosWolfger: New information that will be wrong the next time a science article is published?13:46
Wolfgerok, that link appears to not exist yet. Until the end of the day: http://shirt.woot.com/13:47
brouschthat's how you build a correct model, by looking at the evidence as it comes in and debating what it means13:47
WolfgerDuolos: you fail to grasp how science works13:47
brouschand having the flexibility of though and belief to admit you were wrong13:47
DuolosI'm not claiming to have all the answers at all, but I also don't want to say "evolution is an indisputable fact" when there's so little evidence to support it (and that evidence changes constantly)13:47
snap-lDuolos: I think you need to understand what evidence and proof mean. :)13:48
snap-lEvidence is not "shit that some guy made up"13:48
Duolosbrousch: Right, I get that.  The problem with most evolutionist scientists is that they interpret evidence against their conclusions, not the other way around.  They'll never change their conclusion regardless of what evidence shows.13:48
snap-lProof is not "conjecture some guy threw out there"13:48
snap-lEvidence is observation with careful study, and repeatable results13:49
DuolosSo they change how they view the evidence.13:49
snap-lNo, they understand the evidence more with repeatable results13:49
Duolossnap-l: I know what real science is and how the scientific method should be employed.  However, in the field of evolutionary science, they don't follow that method.13:49
snap-lIf I give you a phone, having never seen a phone before, and it rings, you'd tell me a phone is a device that makes sound13:49
nullspacerick_h_: what kinda table saw do you have?13:50
snap-lBut, if I give someone else a phone, and they hit the button to pick up the call when it rings, they would say that it is a communication device13:50
Duolossnap-l: Right... and if I hand you a bone, you'll tell me the original owner's daughter listened to Coldplay.13:50
snap-lDuolos: Where do you find fault with Evolutionary science?13:50
brouschyou can tell a lot from a bone13:50
rick_h_nullspace: cheap delta 10"13:51
Duolosbrousch: Oh, I'm sure you can.  But that's not an exaggeration of some of the crap I've read in scientific journals lol13:51
brouschsometimes what the animal ate, how old it was, where it lived13:51
rick_h_when I run it on 110 it pushed the 20a breaker13:51
Duolosbrousch: ...what it was thinking when it died?13:51
rick_h_should be better on 220, but I haven't run any of that to the garage yet13:51
DuolosYou can guess; you can't know.13:51
snap-lDuolos: No, that's Psychics, not Physics. And Psychics is crap. ;)13:52
brouschit's all educated guesses13:52
Duolossnap-l: I have an issue with the way that most scientists go about interpreting the things they see.13:52
snap-lDuolos: Example, please?13:52
brouschwell when you spend your life looking at the same sorts of things, you can get a pretty good idea of how a new one fits in13:52
brouschthere are car guys that can see the edge of a bumper on a car and know what make, model, and year it is13:53
Duolossnap-l: Well, for example, and if you need the source it will take me a while to find it (read it several months ago)... scientists found a part of a hand bone and said that it indicated that early humans "may" have been more loving parents than originally thought13:53
DuolosTheir reasoning?  They found other bones nearby that were from a child, apparently.13:54
brouschthat sounds silly on the surface. did you read the whole article?13:54
DuolosThere's also an entire field devoted to "evolutionary psychology"13:54
Duolosbrousch: yeah, I did13:54
Duolosbrousch: they used the words "may," "could," and "might" a lot :)13:54
brouschalso is it really fair to throw out all of evolution because one scientist is extrapolating too much?13:55
Duolosbrousch: He asked for AN example, not all of them13:55
DuolosHow about the recent discovery that some species of frogs are growing teeth again.  Just like their ancient ancestors before evolution chose the teeth for removal?13:56
snap-lDuolos: Have you heard of archaeology?13:56
DuolosSorry, I don't remember the name of the evolutionary law, but it basically states that once genetic information has been removed, it can not be added back.13:56
Wolfgerthat's silly13:56
DuolosThese frogs are a direct contradiction of that law and the scientists called the frogs "the exception."13:56
snap-lDuolos: Please give us the source. Right now you're just spouting conjecture.13:57
Duolossnap-l: Right now, you ASSUME I'm just spouting conjecture.13:57
DuolosGive me a moment, I'll find the source for the frogs.13:57
snap-lAnd you assume I'm not a tomato with conciousness13:57
jrwrennow I'm agreeing with Duolos13:58
brouschso i "believe" in evolution because i think it's the current best explanation for what we see today. it hasn't explained everything, but it explains more than any other theory. when something more comprehensive comes along, i'll gladly "believe" it13:58
Duolossnap-l: Is National Geographic a credible source in your eyes?13:58
snap-lIt'll do in a pinch13:58
DuolosI need to ask before sourcing them because I know how people think when something challenges their beliefs lol13:58
jrwrenevolution is bullshit. anunaki has been influencing our planet for mililions of years.13:58
jrwrenterraforming it.13:58
jrwrennot only did anunaki create man, but anunaki created EARTH!13:58
brouschoh man, nationalgeographic set off my murdoch block13:59
Duoloshow about the BBC?  They reported on it too13:59
jrwrenjust because you don't believe in a fact, doesn't mean that fact isn't still true.14:00
snap-lDuolos: So, your point is that they found a "loophole" in what was previously considered a law?14:00
DuolosAnyway, there are two examples14:00
Duolosjrwren: wait, which "fact" do I not believe in?14:00
jrwrenevolution doesn't need you to believe in it.14:00
snap-lDuolos: Congratulations, you're watching science in progress.14:00
jrwrenDuolos: that wasn't directed at you :)14:00
Duolosjrwren: oh, sorry.  Figured I was ganged up on :)14:01
jrwrenDuolos: but the fact I'm thinking of... was... my lord adn savior, the prince of light. :p14:01
snap-lDuolos: remember when they found the duckbilled platypus?14:01
jrwrenof course not.. he is too young for that.14:01
Duolossnap-l: That's my point, though.  You can't trust anything they claim is fact because in a year or two, it won't be.14:01
jrwrensnap-l the old man :)14:01
snap-lPreviously unassailable laws that mammals don't have feathers were put to the test.14:01
DuolosAnd yes, plenty of evolutionists claim it is irrefutable fact.14:01
snap-lDuolos: I think you're mildly mistaken14:02
Duolossnap-l: on?14:02
brouschanyone who thinks they understand all of evolution is a fool14:02
brouschignore them and find smarter people14:02
snap-levolutionists can't be painted with such broad strokes much in the same way that Christianity can't be painted with broad strokes.14:02
Duolosbrousch: I don't know.  Richard Dawkins is a very smart guy...14:02
WolfgerI cannot recall hearing any evolutionist saying that anything is irrefutable fact.14:02
DuolosWolfger: Dawkins.  Hawking.14:03
jrwreni hate richard dawkins.14:03
ColonelPanic001and that's an irrefutable fact.14:03
jrwrenhe is a fucking asshole. world would be better off without him.14:03
jrwreni'm glad southpark tore him a new one.14:03
Duolossome Chris guy... can't remember his last name.  Hitchenson, maybe?14:03
WolfgerDuolos: ok, you're on. Show me where they said it.14:03
snap-lSo Dawkins is the spokesperson for Evoution, then?14:03
Duolosoh good grief14:04
snap-lI'm serious14:04
Duolosthis is why it's impossible to debate liberals lol14:04
Wolfgeromg, the subtitle of your article is "Mysterious re-evolution challenges evolutionary theory, scientists say."14:04
jrwrenwell, yes... I think dawkins is a self-claiming spokes person for evolution.14:04
snap-lThat's like saying that Jimmy Swaggart is the spokesperson for Christianity.14:04
Wolfgernot fact14:04
DuolosDid I say he was the spokesperson? Nope.  Did I say that the frog story was absolute proof against evolution?  Nope.14:04
snap-lDuolos: WE'll debate anytime you're ready. :)14:04
jrwrenwtf does liberals have to do with anything? I have a very conservative view of science.14:04
DuolosBut you'll just twist everything I say14:04
snap-lI'm not twisting it, I'm saying that you're cherrypicking.14:05
Duolossnap-l: You're officially out lol14:05
jrwrenWolfger: theories can be facts.  see the theory of gravity.14:05
* ColonelPanic001 is a supporter of Intelligent Falling.14:05
ColonelPanic001Dawkins is an arrogant prick, but so am I, so I don't mind.14:05
Duolosjrwren: Gravity isn't a fact.  We don't know there isn't SOMEWHERE that gravity isn't present :P14:05
snap-lDuolos: Would it make you happier if someone said that Evolution is a body of scientific work in progress?14:06
Wolfgerjrwren: it's a "theory" because we don't understand exactly how it works14:06
snap-land that it's the prevailing scientific thought?14:06
jrwrenDuolos: zomg, that is the dumbest thign I've ever read.14:07
ColonelPanic001nah, I've said dumber, I'm sure.14:07
Duolosjrwren: uhm... you should read more?14:07
WolfgerI love the way Duolos points to an article showing that a species has evolved in an unexpected way as an argument against believing in evolution....14:07
jrwrenDuolos: truth.14:07
snap-lWolfger: Well, you know, once you poke a hole in science, it flutters around the room expelling everything until it's just a limp shard of it's former self14:08
jrwrenimma throw you off a 20 story building... then we'll see if you think gravity is fact... or if you think at all.. MUHUWHAHAHAHAH   j/k of course.14:08
DuolosWolfger: bloody hell, man.  I was asked to show an article that is just one example of why I don't TRUST evolution or scientists.14:08
snap-lthen we can have our hovercars14:08
ColonelPanic001you don't poke a hole in science by finding something unexpected, that *is* science.14:08
jrwrenColonelPanic001: tada! you with the right prize.14:08
Duoloswhy I don't trust everything scientists tell me is true.14:09
* ColonelPanic001 wins. We can all go home now14:09
ColonelPanic001nothing wrong with that14:09
ColonelPanic001you shouldn't14:09
jrwreni'm going home right now.14:09
DuolosHave to clarify or suddenly I'll be pegged as believing the earth is flat14:09
snap-lDuolos: Science is a process.14:09
jrwrensick kid at shcool :(14:09
ColonelPanic001that's also science14:09
Duolos...which it kind of is in Iowa14:09
snap-lIt's not a belief system.14:09
ColonelPanic001the heart of science is saying "wtf you're full of crap, let me prove it"14:09
snap-lIt's like believing assembly lines.14:09
jrwrenevolution is an ever changing science. not a belief system.14:09
jrwreni believe in yesterday.14:10
snap-lI believe in nexterday.14:10
Duolosjrwren: science, however, isn't supposed to "change."  It's supposed to be based on unchanging, and observable facts.14:10
Duolos...at least that's the science I grew up with.14:10
ColonelPanic001science always changes14:10
ColonelPanic001otherwise we'd still be trying alchemy14:10
WolfgerDuolos: so this new evidence (no facts have "changed" as you like to say) refutes a hypothesis proposed in 1893. And you now distrust science because some dude was wrong over 100 years ago?14:10
DuolosNOW, however, it HAS to change to fit in with certain worldviews.14:10
snap-lDuolos: Science is changing14:10
brouschDuolos: then you had bad science teachers14:11
ColonelPanic001no kidding14:11
snap-lWe used to believe that Mercury was safe. That was proven false14:11
Duolosbrousch: Actually, I did.  She got fired for getting students drunk and sleeping with them.14:11
DuolosBUT... that's another story14:11
jrwrenDuolos: you are wrong again. where did you get this crazy notion?14:11
ColonelPanic001hell, all the major names in history of science are there because they changed our worldview - showed that we were wrong or just added to it14:12
jrwrenDuolos: science is a process. its use of the scientific method.  that doesn't change... the results from using the method IS SUPPOSED TO CHANGE.14:12
DuolosAnyway, it's been fun.  Can't wait to meet you all over a beer :P14:12
jrwrenDuolos: you grew up with some fucked up science.14:12
snap-lDuolos: Take it easy. :)14:12
Duolosjrwren: And again... evolution changes the evidence to match the conclusion.14:12
DuolosBut... another time; I've got to run14:12
ColonelPanic001I don't believe in beer. I'm faithful to Intelligent Inebriation.14:12
snap-lDuolos: Looking forward to meeting you. :)14:12
jrwreni'm not.14:12
brouschThey may teach you the current scientific best guess about something, but they should not tell you that it is absolutely correct and will always be correct. i think a failing of many scientists and teachers is to not emphasize that14:13
snap-lDuolos: I was active in the GR BBS scene long ago14:13
ColonelPanic001YOU'RE ALL TOO LATE14:13
Duolosjrwren: I'll sit on the opposite end of the table from you :)14:13
Duolossnap-l: As was I...14:13
snap-lbetween 1989-199314:13
DuolosYeah, early to mid 90s myself.14:13
* ColonelPanic001 scrolls back to see how this stuff all started14:13
brouschof course the problem with telling people it's your best guess is that they have much less confidence in what you say14:13
snap-lwent by Permanent Waves back when. ;)14:14
DuolosColonelPanic001: Started when I got here and saw the word "vaccine" :P14:14
jrwrenDuolos: I've got some good reading for you between now and then: www.timecube.com14:14
snap-ljrwren: JHC, God, no. :)14:14
ColonelPanic001vaccines are a government conspiracy to implant us with tracking devices so we can be herded to Katy Perry concerts (the government is working for the RIAA)14:14
snap-lColonelPanic001: Truth14:14
DuolosColonelPanic001: Doesn't surprise me.  I knew Katy Perry was just a pawn.14:15
DuolosAnyway, off I go.  Tranquility may resume :) seeya14:15
snap-lbrousch: And this is why I can never return to West MI. ;)14:16
brouschbut you went to hope!14:16
snap-lOh, I'll visit, but man, living there would make my forehead veins pop. :)14:17
snap-lNot to mention JoDee is about to explode. :)14:18
Wolfger"you guys haven't said anything I can argue with, so I'll draw things up out of thin air that I can argue against, and oh btw I can't find my source on that right now"14:23
snap-lI should have pointed this out sooner.14:23
snap-l"Dollo's law of irreversibility (also known as Dollo's law and Dollo's principle) is a hypothesis proposed in 1893[1] by French-born Belgian paleontologist Louis Dollo which states that evolution is not reversible."14:23
WolfgerI also love the way he leapt to the conclusion we were all liberals because we believe in science...14:24
snap-lDamn scientists for using the word "law" for "hypothesis"14:24
snap-lWolfger: Well, aren't we?14:24
Wolfgersnap-l: I did point that out earlier (paraphrased)14:24
snap-lI know my Birkenstocks are just itching to be used.14:24
brouschsnap-l: we're getting better very slowly14:25
* snap-l notes that if anyone thinks for a second that I own any Birkenstocks, I'll go buy a pair to beat them to a bloody pulp, and then shove them into their orifices.14:25
brouschyeah right. you keep them right next to your Apple keyboard14:26
snap-lbrousch: Oh, I'm sure, but it's definitely not prevalent.14:26
snap-lI fear he may be one of the more calm ones. ;)14:26
snap-lI've dealt with Young Republicans. ;)14:26
brouschyes, he argued for a long time14:26
snap-land we both parted thinking the other side was crazy.14:27
snap-lThat's not terribly productive. ;)14:27
brouschhopefully some of the insight got through to him, like science is not a static set of immutable laws, it's a process14:27
snap-lAlso, that anti-vaccine paper he was referring was so thoroughly discredited, I'm surprised it didn't ignite.14:28
jrwrenyou realize "liberals" is just a code word for "non-born again christian jesus camp lovers"14:28
snap-ljrwren: I thought it was code for "godless anarchists who want to take away our guns".14:29
snap-l(No offense to the godless anarchists who want to take away our guns)14:29
brouschsome day i'll actually start Sunday Science so we have some place to go and socialize like the churchies14:30
jrwrenwait, gun control is in this too?14:30
snap-lAlso, Dawkins is smart, but he's not the spokesperson for athieism or evolutionary theory.14:31
jrwrenI'm all for using two hands, but any other gun control will not be tollerated14:31
Wolfgersnap-l: I don't want to take away your guns14:31
jrwreni want to give everyone a gun.14:31
ColonelPanic001I do. I don't have enough of my own14:31
jrwreni could use more guns.14:31
snap-ljrwren: I think everyone should be given a box of rubberbands14:31
* ColonelPanic001 has no guns, probably never will, doesn't mind responsible reasonable gun owners14:31
snap-lI got to shoot guns on an outing at Chrysler.14:32
snap-lHave no problem with folks being responsible gun owners14:32
WolfgerI think guns should be taken away from people who can't pass simple science exams.14:32
ColonelPanic001I do have a bat'leth, though...14:32
snap-lfunny thing is all of the years of playing gun-based video games made the real thing much easier to aim and hit targets.14:33
brouschi have a Jo14:33
jrwrenrofl... i'm glad YOU didn't write teh second ammendment :)14:33
brouschwell it was written at a different time. pretty much everyone already had a gun for hunting and protecting themselves14:35
brouscheach family anyways14:35
ColonelPanic001it's like it's debate day in here14:36
ColonelPanic001Hey guys, how do you all like seat belts?14:36
brouschi love them14:36
brouscheveryone should wear one all the time14:37
ColonelPanic001I wear one while at my desk at work.14:37
snap-lNext up: How science plans to take our guns and replace them with social programs.14:37
brouschgood man14:37
ColonelPanic001science plans to take our guns and replace them with awesome rayguns14:37
jrwrennot just hunting and protecting themselves... dueling too. :)14:37
snap-lYes, duelling, the favored passtime of presidents, and noblemen everywhere.14:38
WolfgerColonelPanic001: seat belts are a good thing, and I'm happy they exist.14:38
snap-lWonder if it's still legal in some parts of the country to duel14:38
Wolfgerjust don't ask me how I feel about fascist seat belt laws requiring people use them.14:39
ColonelPanic001Everyone knows the Nazis gained power through required seat belt laws.14:39
brouschbut if you don't buckle up i could be killed by your body flying through my window14:39
Wolfgerif you do buckle up, I may die due to the slight increase to the mass of the collision14:40
WolfgerI think either is equally likely14:40
ColonelPanic001lol i might drown in a lake14:41
Wolfgerand see, we're still discussing evolution...14:41
ColonelPanic001not using a seat belt does qualify as natural selection14:42
snap-lStates and territories which have statutory prohibitions on duelling for all citizens are Colorado,[49] District of Columbia,[50] Idaho,[51] Kentucky,[52] Massachusetts,[53] Michigan,[54] Mississippi,[55] Nevada,[56] New Mexico,[57] New York,[58] North Dakota,[59] Oklahoma,[60] Puerto Rico,[61] Rhode Island[62] and Utah.[63] California previously prohibited duelling, but this was repealed in 1994.[64]14:42
Wolfgerseat belt laws fight against evolution, by keeping bad genes in the pool14:42
snap-lSo, one more reason not to move to California14:42
Wolfgerone more reason to move to California!14:42
brouschyou probably have to file paperwork beforehand14:42
snap-lIn San Francisco, you need a permit14:43
WolfgerI'm curious what happened in 1994 to precipitate the repealing of that law...14:43
snap-lfollowed by several town meetings, and a visit from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms.14:43
snap-lHaving a hard time finding chapter / verse for the repeal14:45
jrwrenseat belt laws and flouride in the water!14:47
jrwreni'm surprised more gangsta's ain't into duelling in CA.  south central duel!14:47
Wolfgerwhat, a fight on fair terms? That's crazy talk.14:54
Wolfgerthey all want to do drive-bys and surprise shootings14:54
snap-lDuolos: wb. :)14:54
DuolosCan we just talk about linuxy things now?  I'm having a beer lol14:54
Wolfgermmm... beer. I'm jealous14:55
snap-lMe too14:55
snap-lSo, how about that Oneiric.14:56
jrwrenwhat kind of beer?14:56
DuolosHmm... trying to install a .deb but it's telling me I can't because it's 32-bit (I'm on Kubuntu 11.04 64-bit).  Any way around that?14:56
Duolosjrwren: Miller Lite.  Cheap, tastes decent and gets the job done14:56
brouschoh, you're a kde user?14:56
brouschround 2!14:57
Duolosbrousch: Hey, nobody's perfect.14:57
DuolosI've always used gnome... just figured I'd try something new.14:57
DuolosFreedom FTW14:57
brouschDuolos: you can try --force-architecture14:59
brouschsudo dpkg -i --force-architecture your.deb14:59
Duolosbrousch: safe enough, I assume?14:59
brouschi have no idea15:00
brouschit worked for me on one program. that's all i know15:00
Duoloswell, if it goes pop! I'll know15:00
DuolosEh, no POP, but it did say no.15:01
DuolosThanks for the suggestion, though.15:02
brouschdid you install ia32?15:04
Duolosbrousch: of course no.  I assume I should?15:05
brouschthen try to install it regular, and --force-architecture if that still fails15:05
Duoloshmm... not seeing it in the repos15:05
Wolfgerjrwren: why do you need to start another fight? ;-)15:05
jrwrenI was just curious.15:06
jrwrenI could go for a miller lite15:06
WolfgerI'd drink anything right about now...15:06
snap-lI need to get rid of the Arcadia Ales IPAs in my fridge.15:06
snap-lMAybe do beer burgers or something15:07
DuolosI have learned that no matter what beer I'm drinking, the asker will disapprove.  Friggin' hipsters lol15:07
brouschDuolos: hm, it should be in there https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/natty/amd64/ia32-libs15:07
Wolfgersnap-l: you on the Ocelot? What kernel is that running? I'm curious about the 3.115:07
brouschsnap-l: i like beer brats15:07
snap-lI'm not on it yet. Going to do a live disc to see how well it handles before committing.15:07
Duolosbrousch: ah.   You said ia-32libs.  I searched for all kinds of variants ;)15:07
snap-lWolfger: ^^15:07
snap-lbrousch: Oh, that gives me an idea.15:07
Duolosbrousch: but, it's already installed.15:08
brouschwell then i'm stuck15:08
brouschwhat are you trying to install?15:09
DuolosAmazon's stupid MP3 downloader.  Can't download my music from the cloud player without it.15:09
DuolosBut, they don't offer a 64-bit version, apparentlyu.15:09
WolfgerDuolos: clamz15:09
jrwrensnap-l: i'll trade you arcadia ales IPA's for an Amiga 1000 :)15:09
Wolfgernot sure if it works now with the cloud drive... haven't tried it since that came out15:10
DuolosWolfger: And that works for their cloud player?15:10
snap-ljrwren: Sure. Come on over.15:10
snap-lThey're in the fridge.15:10
DuolosWorth a shot, I guess.  Thanks.15:10
snap-lDuolos: You can also use Banshee to download Amazon music purchases15:11
* Wolfger makes a note to try clamz out tonight15:11
snap-lthough I haven't tried with the cloud player.15:11
Duolossnap-l: right, but they're not all purchases.  I think cloud player is probably a little too new for 3rd party support yet.15:11
DuolosOnly a month or two, I think.15:11
snap-lDuolos: I'd put my money on Banshee or Amarok getting cloud drive support sooner than the others.15:11
Duoloshmm... and as it's been ages since I've used linux, could someone please tell me how to increase the volume?  It's at 100% but a LOT quiter than my laptop has been capable of in the past.15:15
snap-lDuolos: There's several volume controls15:16
snap-lMain, and each application has a volume control15:16
Duolossnap-l: right, but my main and application are at max.15:17
DuolosThought there'd be a way to increase the max volume15:17
snap-lWhat laptop? and are you on KDE?15:18
DuolosI have an HP G62-340US on KDE15:19
DuolosThe volume on this laptop was never the best, but better than it is at the moment.15:19
Duolos...with Altec Lansing speakers, you'd think they'd sound a little better15:19
DuolosMaybe I should get Bose instead ;)15:19
snap-lI <3 my JBLs (which are by the same company as Altec Lansing)15:20
DuolosHonestly, I'm shocked at how quiet it is.  I honestly can't make out the words in the music if I sit back lol15:21
snap-lDuolos: Did you check the connection? Might noy be plugged in all the way.15:21
Duolossnap-l: built-in speakers15:21
DuolosSo no, I didn't check the connections15:21
snap-lDuolos: Oh, thought it might have been external speakers.15:23
Wolfger(or is it just kmix? I can't recall)15:25
Duolosyeah... can't launch it.  No output in konsole either.15:33
DuolosLinux rears it's ugly head again lol15:33
brouschi blame kde15:33
brouschblue-headed step-child15:34
Duolosnah... always had issues with stuff just "not working" in gnome too15:34
DuolosSurely an operator's error, I know.  But still.15:34
DuolosI don't ALWAYS have time to diagnose and fix stuff :)15:34
brouschthere's always something broken or sub-optimal. that's the fun of it15:35
* Wolfger fights the urge to say the speakers just haven't evolved yet...15:35
DuolosWolfger lost that fight.15:36
DuolosSurvival of the fittest claims another intellectual victim :)15:36
WolfgerI like the way we use words to alter perceptions....15:40
Wolfgerarticle on the BART protests says the police are is "response gear". Looks like what has always been called "riot gear" to me....15:40
DuolosThey're not murderous aliens, they're the Civil Defense team :)15:41
jrwrenits why i still run win7 :)15:41
ColonelPanic001jrwren runs windows 7 because police wear response gear and not riot gear15:42
DuolosIsn't Microsoft up to their 9th iteration of Windows anyway?15:43
ColonelPanic001they'll get it right eventually15:44
Duolos1.0, 2.0, 3.0, 95, NT, 98, ME, 2000, XP, Vista, 7... wait, that's 1115:44
DuolosTo their credit, XP and 7 are both excellent operating systems.15:44
DuolosWolfger: I like Miller Lite...get off me.15:44
Wolfger7 is, xp most certainly is not15:44
DuolosWolfger: Okay, not IS, but WAS15:45
Wolfgermust be the Miller talking15:45
jrwrenwindows 7 is numbered based on NT releases, not the Windows 1,2,3,95... versions15:45
WolfgerWindows has had 4 versions: Sucks, sucks less, sucks again, and finally-we-got-it-right15:46
Duolosjrwren: ahhhh gotcha.  I never cared enough to research it.  Just figured this is NOT the 7th major version of Windows.15:46
Wolfgerxp being "sucks less"15:46
DuolosWolfger: Any operating system that ships with a puke green interface theme is awesome in my book!15:47
jrwrenXP was interesting.   no firewall in its release.. then a service pack with firewall, then a service pack with firewall on by default.15:47
DuolosPersonally, I miss GEOS :)15:47
DuolosCan't believe the company actually still SELLS it...15:48
DuolosWait... should MS Bob be considered in the list of Microsoft OS's?15:48
DuolosIf so, Wolfger needs to add a WTF to his list.15:49
jrwreni only ever used GEOS on a C64+415:50
jrwrenI want to install Packard Bell Navigator as my shell15:50
Duolosjrwren: ah.  I ran it in MS-DOS 3... my first exposure to AOL 1.0 :)15:50
DuolosBy the way... the volume issue... alsamixer fixed it.  My master was at 4015:53
brouschDuolos: now you need to blog it so others can find your solution15:53
Duolosbrousch: nevermind.  running alsamixer may have increased the volume, but it made my laptop's physical volume controls completely non-responsive.15:55
DuolosSo in order to change the volume, I need to run alsamixer every time.  Ugh... so much more complicated than necessary lol15:57
WolfgerDuolos: I think Bob is a myth invented just to make MS look worse than it already did.16:01
jrwrenyou never saw bob?16:03
DuolosBob was such a happy fella!16:04
DuolosI miss his puppy.16:05
snap-lI clearly remember Microsoft Bob16:07
snap-lit was the golden era of desktop metaphor when we pushed it way too far.16:08
snap-lGood, if highly flawed, concept16:09
snap-lI remember seeing a Magic Desk device and wondered who was smoking what when they came up with it.16:10
DuolosI understood the concept of trying to relate everything in a computer to the real world, but they really didn't do it well.16:10
snap-lI wonder if they might have more success now16:11
DuolosI was about to say that they assumed everyone was too stupid to understand computers otherwise, but then I remembered I've done tech support.  They were right.16:11
snap-lThough I think that's where a lot of designers are headed.16:11
jrwrenwe need a better in-hand or palm-top metaphor :)16:16
Wolfgerwoot-off mouse pads :-) http://www.woot.com/16:42
snap-lI still have mousepads.16:55
snap-lAnd I semi-collect mousepads.16:55
WolfgerI would be all over that deal if it wasn't for the $5 s&h17:04
jrwrenremember when we were talking about give camp ann arbor last week or so?17:05
jrwrenI talked to the organizer, and he said he agrees...the FAQ is a turn off.17:05
jrwrenthey are actually looking to use wordpress for nearly all their charities.17:05
snap-lBTW: In case everyone else is working off of the same misguided notion that I had that there is more time before the global jam than there is:17:07
jrwrennope. 2 weeks.17:07
Wolfger2 weeks?17:08
WolfgerI thought it was in September17:08
snap-lAnd september is 2 weeks. :)17:08
brouschi will not be attending17:08
Wolfgerholy carp17:08
snap-lI thought there was more time. ;)17:08
WolfgerSeptember is only 2 weeks away!17:08
Wolfgerwell, give or take 3 days17:09
snap-lbrousch: Are you planning a west-side shin-dig?17:09
brouschno, i have a family thing17:09
brouschi sent out the call if anyone else wants to run it, but no one said anything17:09
snap-lLMK if anyone over there gives the inkling that they might want to plan something17:09
brouschjjesse is the most likely17:10
brouschptenhoopen is a suse-lover17:10
Wolfgerdidn't greg-g move out west? Let him plan it. :-D17:10
brouschactually we've never had a jam out here. i have always wandered over to the east side for it17:11
brouschwe only do release parties17:11
snap-lNo worries. Just tryin to update the wiki and schtuff.17:11
Wolfgercrack the whip, fearless leader17:12
snap-lI really wish Team reports worked off the loco directory. :)17:12
snap-lThat would be so much nicer, frankly17:12
snap-lset it, and walk away. ;)17:12
snap-lApparently Picasa is having some troubles.17:22
snap-lGetting a 500 error17:23
jrwrenwhat do ya'll think of this?  http://www.thoughtworks.com/articles/technology-radar-july-201117:29
snap-lInitial thoughts: Who are these people, and why should I care?17:30
_stink_i quickly got bored.17:31
snap-lSecond thought: Throw enough buzzwords in there, and you might get a bingo17:32
snap-lThird thought: Looks like another group of people want to get in on the business-analyst snake-oil parade17:33
snap-l"All too often caching is an afterthought used to address performance problems with a blanket approach and common cache lifetime. This leads to issues and workarounds. The “time value” of information is inherently linked to the business purpose and hence needs to be captured at the same time as other requirements. We believe thoughtful caching should be addressed early in the project and not just treated as a last minute performance fi17:33
rick_h_jrwren: I saw the original radar, thought it was cool17:34
snap-l"All too often, brushing your teeth is regarded as an afterthough in your morning routine, but good oral hygiene is key to better health. Consider thoughtfully brushing your teeth every morning for at least three minutes".17:34
jrwrenrick_h_: this one?17:35
rick_h_if only because I could hand it to my boss and go "look, these things I keep talking about are on here"17:35
rick_h_I showed the actual radar pdf17:35
rick_h_looking for the link17:35
rick_h_shared that with my boss, git moved to the adopt which I've worked the last year on getting into play17:36
rick_h_node.js was in here somewhere17:37
rick_h_db deployment automation was a good one17:37
snap-lI really don't like these trending papers.17:37
snap-lMakes technology into a fad17:38
rick_h_meh, but it helps the boss to see I'm not just saying we should check out this thing I just saw on /./hackerews/reddit17:38
snap-l"Oh, look, Node.js just arrived on the carpet with a fab entourage of web socket APIs. Sweetie! over here!"17:38
rick_h_if you want to change, have to sell it to the boss first17:39
snap-lRight, I get that17:39
snap-lI remember our CIO at Chrysler was on the cover of CIO magazine17:39
snap-lShe was dimmer than a failing 10 watt bulb when it came to tech17:40
snap-lThat's what these papers remind me of.17:41
rick_h_at least this one isn't all EJB and etc17:41
snap-lrick_h_: Oh, no doubt.17:41
rick_h_it's got a heartbeat in real tech, see github, git, etc17:41
snap-lGartner is another one for publishing bullshit trending17:41
jrwrensnap-l: agreed.17:45
jrwrenbut I also agree with rick_h_17:46
jrwrenyou can point to it as something authoritative17:46
jrwrenand it comes from thoughtworks.17:46
snap-lYeah, I mean there's good reasons for these things to exist17:46
jrwrenone of the highest respected sources17:46
rick_h_honestly, it's pretty. I don't know that my boss would point out thoughtworks17:46
snap-lbut they still irk me17:46
rick_h_but the pdf is pretty :)17:46
brouschwhat the ... firefox 6 is out?17:56
snap-lbrousch: Welcome to the abbreviated release cycles that everyone wanted. ;)17:58
brouschthey'll be at FF 10 by the end of the year17:58
snap-lYep. ;)17:59
snap-lYou can also blame Chrome for this.17:59
jrwrenlook at teh changelog, its not TAHT interesting17:59
rick_h_websockets back in, scratchpad/updated dev tools, and server hook api is about most of it18:09
jrwrenyup, none of that effects me AFAIK18:11
snap-lHow much of it affects you, though? ;)18:11
BlazeixI think they added text-overflow:ellipsis support, which is nice18:12
Blazeixat least they were supposed to, I haven't actually looked at the changelist18:12
rick_h_I want to play with websockets at some point, and scratchpad will be cool for quickly doing some js code sharing with co-workers18:12
brouschrick_h_: you're rubbing off on people18:20
brouschmy friend is threatening to chop off hands if people use raw sql in their code, and he says it's because of you18:20
jrwrendamn shame.18:24
rick_h_ssh jrwren18:24
rick_h_hah, js unit tests, FF6 28s FF5 36s Chrome13 18s phantomjs 8s18:25
jrwrenrawsql in code is the right solution for a certain subset of problems.18:35
rick_h_jrwren: true, and I had a slide for that18:36
rick_h_headless webkit18:37
jrwrenzomg, so awesome.18:37
rick_h_yea, so can run my JS client side unit tests via command line and it's 2x as fast as running in chrome currently18:37
rick_h_and 3x FF618:38
=== The_Machine70x7 is now known as The_Machine
snap-lUpdated the team reports to have the Ubuntu Hour / CHCs, and lococasts on them19:27
snap-lIf anyone has a blog post for the older release parties / jams, please feel free to add them. ;)19:27
rick_h_go snap-l19:48
snap-lThese wiki pages are a real PITA>19:49
snap-lI know we have more release parties and what-not to report19:49
snap-lRouting through the mailing lists, and noticing that the Monthly IRC Meeting was instituted in 200919:56
brouschi was putting them on our main wiki page20:06
brouschthe old moinmoin page20:07
brouschi don't know where that went20:08
brouschso i should go into the team reports and fill in crap that happened?20:12
snap-lbrousch: Yeah, anything you notice is missing20:21
brouschi swaer i did that once already. tell them to quit moving things20:21
snap-lThey very well might be there.20:22
brouschyeah, mine are in there20:25
snap-lOK, cool20:38
snap-lPut out the call for anyone else who might have photos or recollection of what went on20:38
brouschthe flickr group is nice for photos21:02
snap-lI know what my next keyboard is. ;)21:26
TeamXlinkAnyone up for scrabble?23:02
TeamXlinkAnother person and I are in the Social Lounge 8 we would like too play with at least 3 total people instead of just him and I.23:03
TeamXlinkLast call before we start the game.23:03
_stink_i am going to murder AT&T23:44
snap-l_stink_: Please don't.23:45
snap-lI'm liking what I'm seeing of Oneiric thus far23:46
snap-lseems slightly more stable on theUSB key.23:46
rick_h__stink_: what did they do to you?23:52
snap-lhttp://askubuntu.com/questions/49348/how-do-i-set-a-theme-in-oneiric<- Seriously?23:53
snap-lAlso, can someone riddle me why Startup Applications gets a menu entry?23:58

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