jussiastraljava: nose to the grindstone boy! ;P :P :P :P07:15
astraljavaOh you know it. :)07:36
astraljavaYesterday, just 15 hours. I'm such a slacker.07:37
jussiyep, should be her 23.5. you get half hour rest period per day! :P07:59
astraljavaCome again?08:08
* abogani waves all08:08
astraljavaHi abogani!08:08
aboganiastraljava: Hi Janne!08:08
astraljavaabogani: noticed a weird issue with the lowlatency kernel, possibly. When running the amd64, and suspending the laptop, when we're resuming, and I stick the 3G USB broadband stick in, the kernel would go oops.08:09
astraljavaBut it was sporadic, so I didn't report a bug yet, need to do more testing to see whether it is consistent or not.08:10
astraljavaCause I noticed that the machine would do that on -generic randomly when suspending/resuming as well.08:10
astraljavaSometimes, not all the time.08:11
astraljavaAnd for the past week or so, everything's just worked.08:11
aboganiastraljava: If persist send the the oops' output please.08:27
astraljavaabogani: Sure, will do. I'll continue testing on a desktop machine, though, as soon as work business slows down a bit. Hopefully this week, though.08:30
aboganiastraljava: Ok, thanks.08:32
falktxhm, what about a custom GRUB menu?12:36
scott-workfalktx: ailo i'm going to respond to the emails, just been really busy last night and today, about audacity13:18
scott-workthe short is that we talked about work flows and what uses are available13:18
scott-workardour seemed to supported the work flows that most people considered important13:18
scott-workdavid did add a work flow about editing the odd audio recording13:19
scott-workbut it didn't seem like something most people would want to do on a regular basis13:19
scott-workthat is why i asked about what function it would provide13:20
scott-workif everyone is adamant about including it then i'm not going to be a dick about this though ;)13:20
ailoscott-work, Audacity is a very important tool. The reason why a music newbie might not know that is the same reason why such a person won't know anything at all about audio apps13:23
ailoAnd if you want to inform the user on how to certain tasks, you show them what apps to use, and how13:24
ailoThrough documentation13:24
ailoscott-work, This is why we need to ask experienced people on what software they use to what tasks, and base workflows on that13:26
ailoThere's no such thing as a newbie way to do things13:26
ailoThere's just a good way, and a bad way13:26
ailoOr, there are good ways, and bad ways13:27
ailoAnd sometimes what the good way is, is a matter of personal reference13:27
ailoI have some experience in using software for audio13:28
ailoI know holstein has too13:28
ailoI don't know about the rest of the people involved in this project13:28
ailoI believe package selection for the standard install of UbuntuStudio should contain apps to cover all standard workflows13:31
scott-workailo: you touched upon a good point...i did ask people and i made decisions based on the input received13:39
scott-workalso, i am not saying that audacity cannot be used to make very refined products because it can13:40
ailoscott-work, Audacity is an audio file editor. It's not a DAW. It has a special purpose13:40
scott-workbut it seems that most people who are into audio tend to use ardour, perhaps because it is "professional"13:40
ailoscott-work, Ardour is a different beast all together. 13:41
ailoscott-work, Servers a different purpose13:41
scott-worki will be forthingcoming about my feeling, i'm getting a little mad13:41
scott-worki asked for input, recieved little, made decisions, and now people are coming behind after things have happened and questioning why it happened and saying that it should have been different13:42
scott-workmy original concerns when i started the work flows is that people seemed to want certain applications in ubuntu studio either "just because" or that it "seemed like a neat application"13:44
scott-worki wanted to make sure that what we had supported something that people actually wanted to do and could fully support it13:44
scott-workbut as i said, if there is a majority that feel that it is important to put it back into the seeds then i will not object13:45
ailoscott-work, I don't feel the work-flows have been explored yet. 13:45
ailoscott-work, And choosing packages for them is too early13:45
ailoI would need to look at some apps more carefully13:46
ailoAnd also, discover more about plugins 13:46
ailoYou can do a lot with just a small set of plugins13:46
ailoYou don't need 2000 of themn13:46
ailoIf you want to do a mixing work-flow, you choose a set that does the job13:47
falktxscott-work: take for example AutoStatic's example. he's does not uses Ardour13:48
falktxI guess for people that don't use Ardour, Audacity is a quick way to process samples13:49
falktxI use it to, for example, cut some pieces of a music, edit & crossfade and export to the phone (free ringtone!)13:49
falktxit seems like loading Ardour just to do some small tasks like this should not be needed, I guess...13:50
ailoThe fact of the matter is that Audacity is an audio file editor, that is used mainly to process single files, while Ardour is a daw for recording and mixing, and they serve two different purposes. Even though you can do a lot with either of them, they are designed for different things and different tasks13:51
ailoJust saw David H's response on the mail list about https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Workflows#Simple_recording_of_concert.2C_conversation_etc13:52
ailoHadn't noticed that part had grown a bit13:52
ailoIt's a good start13:52
falktxhm, I think I can come up with some ladish project demos13:53
falktxI'll need to install oneiric first though13:54
ailofalktx, I believe that would be the best way to create the "actual" work-flows13:54
falktxme too13:54
scott-worki will reiterate my question about audacity (i'm not trying to be a dick mind you), what purpose will audacity server?  what is the user trying to accomplish?14:04
scott-workbut i wouldn't say "editing a single file" would be a goal, it is a step of something larger14:04
scott-workit's too ambiguous14:04
scott-worki had a work flow about podcasts, i think audacity is perfect for this14:05
scott-workbut i choose not to incorporate the podcast work flow because we can't provide a complete tool chain with what is in the repos14:05
scott-workwhat i'm asking other people to provide a goal, like "producing a podcast", that requires audacity14:05
scott-workailo: i agree with plugins, i don't like that they are all in there14:06
scott-worki have removed the ones i could with my current knowlege, for example i removed the swh-pugins when swl-lvs came about (i'm probably buthcering the package names)14:06
scott-worki would really like to remove a crap load of them but i dont' feel qualified at this point because i lack expereience and knowledge with them :(14:07
falktxscott-work: swh-ladspa are very useful14:07
falktxbut I dont know much about plugins, sorry14:08
scott-workbut i can say that i also don't want to just provide a single compressor (for example) because different ones perform differently14:08
scott-workfalktx: but i replaced it with swh-lv2 which is a port i believe14:08
falktxscott-work: yes, but many hosts don't support lv2 yet14:09
falktxscott-work: since these plugins are the same, I actually think it's better to keep both versions14:09
falktxso users can use the same plugin in different apps14:10
falktx(including audacity, hehe)14:10
scott-workwe are also shipping zynjack with lv2rack so if it works with jack it should be able to use swh-lv214:10
scott-workif we choose to ship audacity then we probably should include swh-ladpsa then14:10
falktxI guess it's better yes14:10
falktxscott-work: if audacity was removed, what other audio editor would replace it?14:11
falktxor no just-audio-editor at all?14:11
scott-workfalktx:  why are you editing audio?  that will help understand which editor is required14:15
scott-workqtractor is also shipped currently i believe which is more in line with what autostatic is doing14:16
ailoqtractor is great, since ardour has no midi14:16
ailoAnd what else does qtractro have, besides midi, compared to Ardour?14:16
scott-workwhick is mainly why it is included, it effectively replaced seq24 which is more of a live performance sequencer14:17
scott-workailo: it now has auomatic, but it has allowed plugins for a while14:17
falktxmidi means synth plugins, so DSSI14:17
falktxardour has no plans for DSSI support14:18
ailoAudacity is used mainly for editing samples, doing detailed mastering of single files as well as mixes, and also - it is used to create electro-acoustic musi 14:18
ailoFor basic use, it's great for just making samples14:19
ailoYou can do some things on Ardour instead of using Audacity, but since Ardour is not meant for editing audio files on a detailed level, it gets clumpsy14:21
ailoAudio editing is becoming more and more a part of DAW's like Ardour14:22
scott-workailo: okay, so a good goal for audacity could be to make samples for sound fonts?14:24
scott-workor other samples for other reasons?14:24
scott-workincluding editing podcast14:25
ailoscott-work, Any situation where you want to open a single file, do some editing, and save it, or even convert it, Audacity is a good tool for that14:25
ailoscott-work, If you're creating a sample-bank, you would probably use a lot of the same settings for a big pool of files14:26
ailoscott-work, Like this http://manual.audacityteam.org/index.php?title=Batch_Processing14:26
ailoNow, you can do some of those things on Ardour, but not as easily, or as well14:26
scott-workailo: but i'm trying to stay away from generalized statements like "editing a file" because while it sounds tangible it may not be, i'm trying to get at the root of WHY they want to edit a file14:26
scott-workwithout understanding why we can't understand how often this will be used or what other tools might be necessary14:27
scott-worki believe this is why the subtitle-editor package was included into the seeds at one point14:27
scott-workbecause someone could "create subtitles"14:27
scott-workbut the problem was that no one (except one person probably) wanted to do that14:28
scott-workalso alot of the other tools were included to support creating a movie or whatever other goal you might expect to use sub-titles for14:28
ailoscott-work, I don't have time to talk more about this now. All I can say is that Audacity is such a widely used tool, that we had it installed at school on Macs instead of using proprietary software14:28
ailoI understand that you don't know what it's for. I would need to think more about it and write up a lot of use case14:29
ailoMaybe explain in detail what it means to edit a sound file14:29
ailoSorry for being very blunt. I don't mean to sound like a dick, if I do14:32

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