| jussi | astraljava: nose to the grindstone boy! ;P :P :P :P | 07:15 |
|---|---|---|
| astraljava | Oh you know it. :) | 07:36 |
| astraljava | Yesterday, just 15 hours. I'm such a slacker. | 07:37 |
| jussi | yep, should be her 23.5. you get half hour rest period per day! :P | 07:59 |
| astraljava | Come again? | 08:08 |
| * abogani waves all | 08:08 | |
| astraljava | Hi abogani! | 08:08 |
| abogani | astraljava: Hi Janne! | 08:08 |
| astraljava | abogani: noticed a weird issue with the lowlatency kernel, possibly. When running the amd64, and suspending the laptop, when we're resuming, and I stick the 3G USB broadband stick in, the kernel would go oops. | 08:09 |
| astraljava | But it was sporadic, so I didn't report a bug yet, need to do more testing to see whether it is consistent or not. | 08:10 |
| astraljava | Cause I noticed that the machine would do that on -generic randomly when suspending/resuming as well. | 08:10 |
| astraljava | Sometimes, not all the time. | 08:11 |
| astraljava | And for the past week or so, everything's just worked. | 08:11 |
| abogani | astraljava: If persist send the the oops' output please. | 08:27 |
| astraljava | abogani: Sure, will do. I'll continue testing on a desktop machine, though, as soon as work business slows down a bit. Hopefully this week, though. | 08:30 |
| abogani | astraljava: Ok, thanks. | 08:32 |
| falktx | hm, what about a custom GRUB menu? | 12:36 |
| scott-work | falktx: ailo i'm going to respond to the emails, just been really busy last night and today, about audacity | 13:18 |
| scott-work | the short is that we talked about work flows and what uses are available | 13:18 |
| scott-work | ardour seemed to supported the work flows that most people considered important | 13:18 |
| scott-work | david did add a work flow about editing the odd audio recording | 13:19 |
| scott-work | but it didn't seem like something most people would want to do on a regular basis | 13:19 |
| scott-work | that is why i asked about what function it would provide | 13:20 |
| scott-work | if everyone is adamant about including it then i'm not going to be a dick about this though ;) | 13:20 |
| ailo | scott-work, Audacity is a very important tool. The reason why a music newbie might not know that is the same reason why such a person won't know anything at all about audio apps | 13:23 |
| ailo | And if you want to inform the user on how to certain tasks, you show them what apps to use, and how | 13:24 |
| ailo | Through documentation | 13:24 |
| ailo | scott-work, This is why we need to ask experienced people on what software they use to what tasks, and base workflows on that | 13:26 |
| ailo | There's no such thing as a newbie way to do things | 13:26 |
| ailo | There's just a good way, and a bad way | 13:26 |
| ailo | Or, there are good ways, and bad ways | 13:27 |
| ailo | And sometimes what the good way is, is a matter of personal reference | 13:27 |
| ailo | I have some experience in using software for audio | 13:28 |
| ailo | I know holstein has too | 13:28 |
| ailo | I don't know about the rest of the people involved in this project | 13:28 |
| ailo | I believe package selection for the standard install of UbuntuStudio should contain apps to cover all standard workflows | 13:31 |
| scott-work | ailo: you touched upon a good point...i did ask people and i made decisions based on the input received | 13:39 |
| scott-work | also, i am not saying that audacity cannot be used to make very refined products because it can | 13:40 |
| ailo | scott-work, Audacity is an audio file editor. It's not a DAW. It has a special purpose | 13:40 |
| scott-work | but it seems that most people who are into audio tend to use ardour, perhaps because it is "professional" | 13:40 |
| ailo | scott-work, Ardour is a different beast all together. | 13:41 |
| ailo | scott-work, Servers a different purpose | 13:41 |
| scott-work | i will be forthingcoming about my feeling, i'm getting a little mad | 13:41 |
| scott-work | i asked for input, recieved little, made decisions, and now people are coming behind after things have happened and questioning why it happened and saying that it should have been different | 13:42 |
| scott-work | my original concerns when i started the work flows is that people seemed to want certain applications in ubuntu studio either "just because" or that it "seemed like a neat application" | 13:44 |
| scott-work | i wanted to make sure that what we had supported something that people actually wanted to do and could fully support it | 13:44 |
| scott-work | but as i said, if there is a majority that feel that it is important to put it back into the seeds then i will not object | 13:45 |
| ailo | scott-work, I don't feel the work-flows have been explored yet. | 13:45 |
| ailo | scott-work, And choosing packages for them is too early | 13:45 |
| ailo | I would need to look at some apps more carefully | 13:46 |
| ailo | And also, discover more about plugins | 13:46 |
| ailo | You can do a lot with just a small set of plugins | 13:46 |
| ailo | You don't need 2000 of themn | 13:46 |
| ailo | If you want to do a mixing work-flow, you choose a set that does the job | 13:47 |
| falktx | scott-work: take for example AutoStatic's example. he's does not uses Ardour | 13:48 |
| falktx | I guess for people that don't use Ardour, Audacity is a quick way to process samples | 13:49 |
| falktx | I use it to, for example, cut some pieces of a music, edit & crossfade and export to the phone (free ringtone!) | 13:49 |
| falktx | it seems like loading Ardour just to do some small tasks like this should not be needed, I guess... | 13:50 |
| ailo | The fact of the matter is that Audacity is an audio file editor, that is used mainly to process single files, while Ardour is a daw for recording and mixing, and they serve two different purposes. Even though you can do a lot with either of them, they are designed for different things and different tasks | 13:51 |
| ailo | Just saw David H's response on the mail list about https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Workflows#Simple_recording_of_concert.2C_conversation_etc | 13:52 |
| ailo | Hadn't noticed that part had grown a bit | 13:52 |
| ailo | It's a good start | 13:52 |
| falktx | hm, I think I can come up with some ladish project demos | 13:53 |
| falktx | I'll need to install oneiric first though | 13:54 |
| ailo | falktx, I believe that would be the best way to create the "actual" work-flows | 13:54 |
| falktx | me too | 13:54 |
| scott-work | i will reiterate my question about audacity (i'm not trying to be a dick mind you), what purpose will audacity server? what is the user trying to accomplish? | 14:04 |
| scott-work | but i wouldn't say "editing a single file" would be a goal, it is a step of something larger | 14:04 |
| scott-work | it's too ambiguous | 14:04 |
| scott-work | i had a work flow about podcasts, i think audacity is perfect for this | 14:05 |
| scott-work | but i choose not to incorporate the podcast work flow because we can't provide a complete tool chain with what is in the repos | 14:05 |
| scott-work | what i'm asking other people to provide a goal, like "producing a podcast", that requires audacity | 14:05 |
| scott-work | ailo: i agree with plugins, i don't like that they are all in there | 14:06 |
| scott-work | i have removed the ones i could with my current knowlege, for example i removed the swh-pugins when swl-lvs came about (i'm probably buthcering the package names) | 14:06 |
| scott-work | i would really like to remove a crap load of them but i dont' feel qualified at this point because i lack expereience and knowledge with them :( | 14:07 |
| falktx | scott-work: swh-ladspa are very useful | 14:07 |
| falktx | but I dont know much about plugins, sorry | 14:08 |
| scott-work | but i can say that i also don't want to just provide a single compressor (for example) because different ones perform differently | 14:08 |
| scott-work | falktx: but i replaced it with swh-lv2 which is a port i believe | 14:08 |
| falktx | scott-work: yes, but many hosts don't support lv2 yet | 14:09 |
| falktx | scott-work: since these plugins are the same, I actually think it's better to keep both versions | 14:09 |
| falktx | so users can use the same plugin in different apps | 14:10 |
| falktx | (including audacity, hehe) | 14:10 |
| scott-work | we are also shipping zynjack with lv2rack so if it works with jack it should be able to use swh-lv2 | 14:10 |
| falktx | yes | 14:10 |
| scott-work | if we choose to ship audacity then we probably should include swh-ladpsa then | 14:10 |
| falktx | I guess it's better yes | 14:10 |
| falktx | scott-work: if audacity was removed, what other audio editor would replace it? | 14:11 |
| falktx | or no just-audio-editor at all? | 14:11 |
| scott-work | falktx: why are you editing audio? that will help understand which editor is required | 14:15 |
| scott-work | qtractor is also shipped currently i believe which is more in line with what autostatic is doing | 14:16 |
| ailo | qtractor is great, since ardour has no midi | 14:16 |
| ailo | And what else does qtractro have, besides midi, compared to Ardour? | 14:16 |
| scott-work | whick is mainly why it is included, it effectively replaced seq24 which is more of a live performance sequencer | 14:17 |
| scott-work | ailo: it now has auomatic, but it has allowed plugins for a while | 14:17 |
| falktx | midi means synth plugins, so DSSI | 14:17 |
| falktx | ardour has no plans for DSSI support | 14:18 |
| ailo | Audacity is used mainly for editing samples, doing detailed mastering of single files as well as mixes, and also - it is used to create electro-acoustic musi | 14:18 |
| ailo | For basic use, it's great for just making samples | 14:19 |
| ailo | You can do some things on Ardour instead of using Audacity, but since Ardour is not meant for editing audio files on a detailed level, it gets clumpsy | 14:21 |
| ailo | Audio editing is becoming more and more a part of DAW's like Ardour | 14:22 |
| scott-work | ailo: okay, so a good goal for audacity could be to make samples for sound fonts? | 14:24 |
| scott-work | or other samples for other reasons? | 14:24 |
| scott-work | including editing podcast | 14:25 |
| ailo | scott-work, Any situation where you want to open a single file, do some editing, and save it, or even convert it, Audacity is a good tool for that | 14:25 |
| ailo | scott-work, If you're creating a sample-bank, you would probably use a lot of the same settings for a big pool of files | 14:26 |
| ailo | scott-work, Like this http://manual.audacityteam.org/index.php?title=Batch_Processing | 14:26 |
| ailo | Now, you can do some of those things on Ardour, but not as easily, or as well | 14:26 |
| scott-work | ailo: but i'm trying to stay away from generalized statements like "editing a file" because while it sounds tangible it may not be, i'm trying to get at the root of WHY they want to edit a file | 14:26 |
| scott-work | without understanding why we can't understand how often this will be used or what other tools might be necessary | 14:27 |
| scott-work | i believe this is why the subtitle-editor package was included into the seeds at one point | 14:27 |
| scott-work | because someone could "create subtitles" | 14:27 |
| scott-work | but the problem was that no one (except one person probably) wanted to do that | 14:28 |
| scott-work | also alot of the other tools were included to support creating a movie or whatever other goal you might expect to use sub-titles for | 14:28 |
| ailo | scott-work, I don't have time to talk more about this now. All I can say is that Audacity is such a widely used tool, that we had it installed at school on Macs instead of using proprietary software | 14:28 |
| ailo | I understand that you don't know what it's for. I would need to think more about it and write up a lot of use case | 14:29 |
| ailo | Maybe explain in detail what it means to edit a sound file | 14:29 |
| ailo | Sorry for being very blunt. I don't mean to sound like a dick, if I do | 14:32 |
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