[07:15] astraljava: nose to the grindstone boy! ;P :P :P :P [07:36] Oh you know it. :) [07:37] Yesterday, just 15 hours. I'm such a slacker. [07:59] yep, should be her 23.5. you get half hour rest period per day! :P [08:08] Come again? [08:08] * abogani waves all [08:08] Hi abogani! [08:08] astraljava: Hi Janne! [08:09] abogani: noticed a weird issue with the lowlatency kernel, possibly. When running the amd64, and suspending the laptop, when we're resuming, and I stick the 3G USB broadband stick in, the kernel would go oops. [08:10] But it was sporadic, so I didn't report a bug yet, need to do more testing to see whether it is consistent or not. [08:10] Cause I noticed that the machine would do that on -generic randomly when suspending/resuming as well. [08:11] Sometimes, not all the time. [08:11] And for the past week or so, everything's just worked. [08:27] astraljava: If persist send the the oops' output please. [08:30] abogani: Sure, will do. I'll continue testing on a desktop machine, though, as soon as work business slows down a bit. Hopefully this week, though. [08:32] astraljava: Ok, thanks. [12:36] hm, what about a custom GRUB menu? [13:18] falktx: ailo i'm going to respond to the emails, just been really busy last night and today, about audacity [13:18] the short is that we talked about work flows and what uses are available [13:18] ardour seemed to supported the work flows that most people considered important [13:19] david did add a work flow about editing the odd audio recording [13:19] but it didn't seem like something most people would want to do on a regular basis [13:20] that is why i asked about what function it would provide [13:20] if everyone is adamant about including it then i'm not going to be a dick about this though ;) [13:23] scott-work, Audacity is a very important tool. The reason why a music newbie might not know that is the same reason why such a person won't know anything at all about audio apps [13:24] And if you want to inform the user on how to certain tasks, you show them what apps to use, and how [13:24] Through documentation [13:26] scott-work, This is why we need to ask experienced people on what software they use to what tasks, and base workflows on that [13:26] There's no such thing as a newbie way to do things [13:26] There's just a good way, and a bad way [13:27] Or, there are good ways, and bad ways [13:27] And sometimes what the good way is, is a matter of personal reference [13:28] I have some experience in using software for audio [13:28] I know holstein has too [13:28] I don't know about the rest of the people involved in this project [13:31] I believe package selection for the standard install of UbuntuStudio should contain apps to cover all standard workflows [13:39] ailo: you touched upon a good point...i did ask people and i made decisions based on the input received [13:40] also, i am not saying that audacity cannot be used to make very refined products because it can [13:40] scott-work, Audacity is an audio file editor. It's not a DAW. It has a special purpose [13:40] but it seems that most people who are into audio tend to use ardour, perhaps because it is "professional" [13:41] scott-work, Ardour is a different beast all together. [13:41] scott-work, Servers a different purpose [13:41] i will be forthingcoming about my feeling, i'm getting a little mad [13:42] i asked for input, recieved little, made decisions, and now people are coming behind after things have happened and questioning why it happened and saying that it should have been different [13:44] my original concerns when i started the work flows is that people seemed to want certain applications in ubuntu studio either "just because" or that it "seemed like a neat application" [13:44] i wanted to make sure that what we had supported something that people actually wanted to do and could fully support it [13:45] but as i said, if there is a majority that feel that it is important to put it back into the seeds then i will not object [13:45] scott-work, I don't feel the work-flows have been explored yet. [13:45] scott-work, And choosing packages for them is too early [13:46] I would need to look at some apps more carefully [13:46] And also, discover more about plugins [13:46] You can do a lot with just a small set of plugins [13:46] You don't need 2000 of themn [13:47] If you want to do a mixing work-flow, you choose a set that does the job [13:48] scott-work: take for example AutoStatic's example. he's does not uses Ardour [13:49] I guess for people that don't use Ardour, Audacity is a quick way to process samples [13:49] I use it to, for example, cut some pieces of a music, edit & crossfade and export to the phone (free ringtone!) [13:50] it seems like loading Ardour just to do some small tasks like this should not be needed, I guess... [13:51] The fact of the matter is that Audacity is an audio file editor, that is used mainly to process single files, while Ardour is a daw for recording and mixing, and they serve two different purposes. Even though you can do a lot with either of them, they are designed for different things and different tasks [13:52] Just saw David H's response on the mail list about https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Workflows#Simple_recording_of_concert.2C_conversation_etc [13:52] Hadn't noticed that part had grown a bit [13:52] It's a good start [13:53] hm, I think I can come up with some ladish project demos [13:54] I'll need to install oneiric first though [13:54] falktx, I believe that would be the best way to create the "actual" work-flows [13:54] me too [14:04] i will reiterate my question about audacity (i'm not trying to be a dick mind you), what purpose will audacity server? what is the user trying to accomplish? [14:04] but i wouldn't say "editing a single file" would be a goal, it is a step of something larger [14:04] it's too ambiguous [14:05] i had a work flow about podcasts, i think audacity is perfect for this [14:05] but i choose not to incorporate the podcast work flow because we can't provide a complete tool chain with what is in the repos [14:05] what i'm asking other people to provide a goal, like "producing a podcast", that requires audacity [14:06] ailo: i agree with plugins, i don't like that they are all in there [14:06] i have removed the ones i could with my current knowlege, for example i removed the swh-pugins when swl-lvs came about (i'm probably buthcering the package names) [14:07] i would really like to remove a crap load of them but i dont' feel qualified at this point because i lack expereience and knowledge with them :( [14:07] scott-work: swh-ladspa are very useful [14:08] but I dont know much about plugins, sorry [14:08] but i can say that i also don't want to just provide a single compressor (for example) because different ones perform differently [14:08] falktx: but i replaced it with swh-lv2 which is a port i believe [14:09] scott-work: yes, but many hosts don't support lv2 yet [14:09] scott-work: since these plugins are the same, I actually think it's better to keep both versions [14:10] so users can use the same plugin in different apps [14:10] (including audacity, hehe) [14:10] we are also shipping zynjack with lv2rack so if it works with jack it should be able to use swh-lv2 [14:10] yes [14:10] if we choose to ship audacity then we probably should include swh-ladpsa then [14:10] I guess it's better yes [14:11] scott-work: if audacity was removed, what other audio editor would replace it? [14:11] or no just-audio-editor at all? [14:15] falktx: why are you editing audio? that will help understand which editor is required [14:16] qtractor is also shipped currently i believe which is more in line with what autostatic is doing [14:16] qtractor is great, since ardour has no midi [14:16] And what else does qtractro have, besides midi, compared to Ardour? [14:17] whick is mainly why it is included, it effectively replaced seq24 which is more of a live performance sequencer [14:17] ailo: it now has auomatic, but it has allowed plugins for a while [14:17] midi means synth plugins, so DSSI [14:18] ardour has no plans for DSSI support [14:18] Audacity is used mainly for editing samples, doing detailed mastering of single files as well as mixes, and also - it is used to create electro-acoustic musi [14:19] For basic use, it's great for just making samples [14:21] You can do some things on Ardour instead of using Audacity, but since Ardour is not meant for editing audio files on a detailed level, it gets clumpsy [14:22] Audio editing is becoming more and more a part of DAW's like Ardour [14:24] ailo: okay, so a good goal for audacity could be to make samples for sound fonts? [14:24] or other samples for other reasons? [14:25] including editing podcast [14:25] scott-work, Any situation where you want to open a single file, do some editing, and save it, or even convert it, Audacity is a good tool for that [14:26] scott-work, If you're creating a sample-bank, you would probably use a lot of the same settings for a big pool of files [14:26] scott-work, Like this http://manual.audacityteam.org/index.php?title=Batch_Processing [14:26] Now, you can do some of those things on Ardour, but not as easily, or as well [14:26] ailo: but i'm trying to stay away from generalized statements like "editing a file" because while it sounds tangible it may not be, i'm trying to get at the root of WHY they want to edit a file [14:27] without understanding why we can't understand how often this will be used or what other tools might be necessary [14:27] i believe this is why the subtitle-editor package was included into the seeds at one point [14:27] because someone could "create subtitles" [14:28] but the problem was that no one (except one person probably) wanted to do that [14:28] also alot of the other tools were included to support creating a movie or whatever other goal you might expect to use sub-titles for [14:28] scott-work, I don't have time to talk more about this now. All I can say is that Audacity is such a widely used tool, that we had it installed at school on Macs instead of using proprietary software [14:29] I understand that you don't know what it's for. I would need to think more about it and write up a lot of use case [14:29] Maybe explain in detail what it means to edit a sound file [14:32] Sorry for being very blunt. I don't mean to sound like a dick, if I do