madnickknome: 15:10
madnickThe < > are for iterating through users and sessinos15:11
charlie-tcamadnick: how will the user know that means that?15:11
charlie-tcaThat is about as intuitive as the gear unity is using15:12
madnickSo it should cleary state15:12
madnickcharlie-tca: how would you want it presented? Usability wise, a list that is always visable?15:16
charlie-tcaI don't care if the list itself is always there, but the identity of what the list is needs to be there.15:17
charlie-tcaThe idea that new users will not know anything anyway is fine for unity. That is their goal. Mine is users need to know what anything we put up means15:17
charlie-tcaIf the user has to click everything on the page to guess what anything is, it fails15:18
charlie-tcaright now, since unity login defaults to the original user of the system, I get password failed on every login15:19
charlie-tcaThere is nothing easy to show who is logging in, what session they are picking, where to pick a session, etc.15:19
charlie-tcaThere is not even a blinking cursor to say you actually managed to select the password bos15:20
madnicknope, they hide that15:20
madnickSo usability is priority 1 :)15:20
madnickIll see what I can do15:20
charlie-tcaIf we have a pretty interface that is horrible to use, it fails15:21
charlie-tcaI would rather stay with the gtk greeter than have something remotely resembling unity right now15:22
charlie-tcaSorry. I know that doesn't sound right, but usability is everything15:22
madnickMaybe I should explain what I was thinking :) I thought "default session -> default user -> enter password -> login" 15:23
madnickI was thinking that was a clean way for new users not to poke around too much15:23
madnickBut I do understand that It lacks explainatory features, and I will fix them15:24
charlie-tcaThat works, but if a user doesn't know what to do to change a session??? 15:24
madnickYeah it must state Session there, I wouldnt understand it myself tbh when i think about it :P15:25
charlie-tcaUsers do not know by tele-kinesis what we expect them to, even if Unity thinks they do15:25
TheSheepyou mean tele-cognition?15:26
madnicki guess i could make a panel like in 11.0415:26
TheSheepkinesis is when things move15:26
charlie-tcaMore and more, designers are planning things that users "can learn to do", instead of "using it should not take learning"15:26
madnickfor session selection15:26
charlie-tcaThanks, TheSheep 15:26
TheSheepcharlie-tca: everything takes learning15:26
madnickon the bbottom :)15:27
TheSheepcharlie-tca: the only intuitive interface is the nipple15:27
charlie-tcaTheSheep: does that mean we can't make it easy to learn?15:27
TheSheepcharlie-tca: you can make it similar to other things you have learned15:27
charlie-tcaObviously, you haven't tried the unity-greeter lately?15:27
TheSheepcharlie-tca: but new people will find *that* awkward, as they will lack your exposure to windows 95 user interface15:27
charlie-tcawhat did windows 95 have?15:28
TheSheepcharlie-tca: unity is horrible, but not because of reinventing things15:28
charlie-tcaI liked the windows 3.1 login15:28
TheSheepcharlie-tca: it's horrible because of a really bad process of inventing and testing them15:28
charlie-tcaand no, I am not opposed to change :)15:28
TheSheepcharlie-tca: no, I didn't see unity greeter, but I can imagine it15:29
charlie-tcaThey have a gear now, which might be hidden by having too long a name, to click on to change sessions15:29
TheSheepwhy would you want to change sessions? ;)15:30
charlie-tcaYou can have about 20 letters in name only now15:30
TheSheepI was thinking about switching to haiku15:30
TheSheepit has a nice and well thought out user interface15:30
* charlie-tca slaps head. never occurred to him they don't want the user changing sessions15:30
charlie-tcaHopefully, Xubuntu will have a nice, well thought out interface, too.15:31
TheSheepit's breaking down slowly15:32
madnickhow do i see what version of lightdm is in the repo?15:32
madnick(using the channel bot) :P15:32
charlie-tcamadnick: we do still have crt users, too. Not everyone has high-quality, high-definition lcd or plasma displays yet.15:32
charlie-tca!info lightdm15:32
ubottulightdm (source: lightdm): Display Manager. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.2.3-0ubuntu2 (natty), package size 47 kB, installed size 236 kB15:32
charlie-tcaIf you need the oneiric one, use15:32
charlie-tca!info lightdm oneiric15:32
ubottulightdm (source: lightdm): Display Manager. In component main, is optional. Version 0.9.3-0ubuntu3 (oneiric), package size 79 kB, installed size 356 kB15:33
charlie-tcaSince oneiric is development only at this time, it takes extra work to see the package15:33
charlie-tcabut that is a big jump in versions15:34
charlie-tcaI have to order another motherboard, I guess. This latest used computer I picked up just keeps failing15:35
charlie-tcaI guess that is what $10.00 US dollars buys now15:35
madnickquick change15:38
madnickill do something about users also15:38
madnickBut something like that (even tho it wont look like that, but you get the idea:))15:38
madnickSessions and keyboard settings at bottom15:38
charlie-tcaThat's the idea. 15:46
charlie-tcaThank you15:46
charlie-tcaDon't let anyone tell you we don't want that, though15:46
charlie-tcaYou can't make everyone happy, I know that. Trying to get all of us to agree will result in no display at all15:47
madnickspeaking of that, the plymouth stuff; you wanted a package on monday? knome said he get back to me before friday, so i will have ~2 days :P15:49
madnickochosi still not here15:49
charlie-tcaIf I was you, I would have a package ready or close to it. 15:49
madnickcharlie-tca: i do already ;)15:49
madnickI just have not built it yet15:49
charlie-tcaUser interface freeze is August 25. We have to have it in before that15:50
madnickBut all scripts etc are in place to just hit "build"15:50
charlie-tcaI see ochosi isn't here yet. Maybe he is on holidays this week too?15:50
charlie-tcaYou can always ask TheSheep too. He is very good with critique of the work15:51
micahgis it possible to set the background with the gtk greeter using lightdm-set-defaults?15:56
charlie-tcaI can't even seem to get rid of the unity-greeter here. Without it, lightdm won't start15:59
micahgcharlie-tca: heh, I said that the other day :)15:59
charlie-tcaGot to have a new install, I guess16:00
charlie-tcadesktop images working today16:00
charlie-tcaLightdm is working good with lightdm-gtk-greeter on fresh installs and live sessions16:01
charlie-tcaGuess I will remove it from this machine completely, and then reinstall it16:02
charlie-tcaI really dislike unity-greeter16:02
charlie-tcaI have reached the point of really, really not liking the way it works16:03
micahgI think lightdm needs package triggers16:06
micahgcharlie-tca: can you try dpkg-reconfigure xubuntu-default-settings?16:07
charlie-tcato get rid of unity-greeter?16:07
charlie-tca$ sudo dpkg-reconfigure xubuntu-default-settings16:09
charlie-tca[sudo] password for charlie: 16:09
charlie-tcadpkg-maintscript-helper: warning: environment variable DPKG_MAINTSCRIPT_NAME missing16:09
charlie-tcadpkg-maintscript-helper: warning: environment variable DPKG_MAINTSCRIPT_PACKAGE missing16:09
* charlie-tca nods16:09
micahgcharlie-tca: not to get rid of unity, but it should reconfigure lightdm to use the gtk greeter16:10
charlie-tcaI see16:10
charlie-tcaIt doesn't run16:10
micahgin theory16:10
charlie-tcaat least I don't think it did16:10
micahgwell, mr_pouit made xubuntu-default-settings set certain env settings for lightdm IIRC16:13
charlie-tcaIt seems very difficult this cycle to get the already installed stuff at the same place as the fresh installs16:15
charlie-tcaAnd I don't mean just us, either16:15
charlie-tcaI will be doing a fresh installation here for beta1, if not sooner16:20
mr_pouito hai (sorry for being silent for a week, but i've been a bit bored but all these lightdm issues, so I took a "forced" break until they did something :/)17:37
mr_pouitmicahg: dpkg-reconfiguring won't do, because the maintainer scripts only change lightdm's config if nothing is already defined17:38
mr_pouityou can run manually: sudo /usr/lib/lightdm/lightdm-set-defaults --session=xubuntu17:39
mr_pouitand sudo /usr/lib/lightdm/lightdm-set-defaults --greeter=lightdm-gtk-greeter17:39
mr_pouit(if you don't want to override any existing settings, add --keep-old17:39
micahgmr_pouit: cool, thanks17:39
charlie-tcamr_pouit: the only problem I have with that is the "they" decided lightdm was finished and working, and I had to figure out what to push hard to get it fixed.18:23
charlie-tcaBut anyway, it seems we got it done!18:24
madnickSeems a bit late for this mutliarch things :)21:06
madnicki mean ia32 wont live much longer :P21:06
micahgmadnick: multiarch has been in progress since last cycle and will continue for a few more21:32

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