| madnick | http://madnick.se/~madnick/xubuntu/xubuntu-greeter.png | 15:10 |
|---|---|---|
| madnick | knome: | 15:10 |
| madnick | comments? | 15:10 |
| madnick | The < > are for iterating through users and sessinos | 15:11 |
| charlie-tca | madnick: how will the user know that means that? | 15:11 |
| charlie-tca | That is about as intuitive as the gear unity is using | 15:12 |
| madnick | So it should cleary state | 15:12 |
| charlie-tca | please | 15:12 |
| madnick | Sessions: | 15:12 |
| madnick | okay | 15:12 |
| madnick | charlie-tca: how would you want it presented? Usability wise, a list that is always visable? | 15:16 |
| charlie-tca | I don't care if the list itself is always there, but the identity of what the list is needs to be there. | 15:17 |
| madnick | ah | 15:17 |
| charlie-tca | The idea that new users will not know anything anyway is fine for unity. That is their goal. Mine is users need to know what anything we put up means | 15:17 |
| charlie-tca | If the user has to click everything on the page to guess what anything is, it fails | 15:18 |
| charlie-tca | right now, since unity login defaults to the original user of the system, I get password failed on every login | 15:19 |
| charlie-tca | There is nothing easy to show who is logging in, what session they are picking, where to pick a session, etc. | 15:19 |
| charlie-tca | There is not even a blinking cursor to say you actually managed to select the password bos | 15:20 |
| charlie-tca | s/bos/box | 15:20 |
| madnick | nope, they hide that | 15:20 |
| madnick | ok | 15:20 |
| madnick | So usability is priority 1 :) | 15:20 |
| madnick | Ill see what I can do | 15:20 |
| charlie-tca | yes | 15:20 |
| charlie-tca | If we have a pretty interface that is horrible to use, it fails | 15:21 |
| madnick | yeah | 15:22 |
| charlie-tca | I would rather stay with the gtk greeter than have something remotely resembling unity right now | 15:22 |
| charlie-tca | Sorry. I know that doesn't sound right, but usability is everything | 15:22 |
| madnick | Maybe I should explain what I was thinking :) I thought "default session -> default user -> enter password -> login" | 15:23 |
| madnick | I was thinking that was a clean way for new users not to poke around too much | 15:23 |
| madnick | But I do understand that It lacks explainatory features, and I will fix them | 15:24 |
| charlie-tca | That works, but if a user doesn't know what to do to change a session??? | 15:24 |
| madnick | Yeah it must state Session there, I wouldnt understand it myself tbh when i think about it :P | 15:25 |
| charlie-tca | Users do not know by tele-kinesis what we expect them to, even if Unity thinks they do | 15:25 |
| TheSheep | you mean tele-cognition? | 15:26 |
| madnick | i guess i could make a panel like in 11.04 | 15:26 |
| TheSheep | kinesis is when things move | 15:26 |
| charlie-tca | More and more, designers are planning things that users "can learn to do", instead of "using it should not take learning" | 15:26 |
| madnick | for session selection | 15:26 |
| charlie-tca | Thanks, TheSheep | 15:26 |
| TheSheep | charlie-tca: everything takes learning | 15:26 |
| madnick | on the bbottom :) | 15:27 |
| TheSheep | charlie-tca: the only intuitive interface is the nipple | 15:27 |
| charlie-tca | TheSheep: does that mean we can't make it easy to learn? | 15:27 |
| TheSheep | charlie-tca: you can make it similar to other things you have learned | 15:27 |
| charlie-tca | Obviously, you haven't tried the unity-greeter lately? | 15:27 |
| TheSheep | charlie-tca: but new people will find *that* awkward, as they will lack your exposure to windows 95 user interface | 15:27 |
| charlie-tca | huh? | 15:28 |
| charlie-tca | what did windows 95 have? | 15:28 |
| TheSheep | charlie-tca: unity is horrible, but not because of reinventing things | 15:28 |
| charlie-tca | I liked the windows 3.1 login | 15:28 |
| charlie-tca | heh | 15:28 |
| TheSheep | charlie-tca: it's horrible because of a really bad process of inventing and testing them | 15:28 |
| charlie-tca | and no, I am not opposed to change :) | 15:28 |
| TheSheep | charlie-tca: no, I didn't see unity greeter, but I can imagine it | 15:29 |
| charlie-tca | They have a gear now, which might be hidden by having too long a name, to click on to change sessions | 15:29 |
| TheSheep | why would you want to change sessions? ;) | 15:30 |
| charlie-tca | You can have about 20 letters in name only now | 15:30 |
| TheSheep | I was thinking about switching to haiku | 15:30 |
| TheSheep | it has a nice and well thought out user interface | 15:30 |
| * charlie-tca slaps head. never occurred to him they don't want the user changing sessions | 15:30 | |
| charlie-tca | Hopefully, Xubuntu will have a nice, well thought out interface, too. | 15:31 |
| TheSheep | it's breaking down slowly | 15:32 |
| madnick | how do i see what version of lightdm is in the repo? | 15:32 |
| madnick | (using the channel bot) :P | 15:32 |
| charlie-tca | madnick: we do still have crt users, too. Not everyone has high-quality, high-definition lcd or plasma displays yet. | 15:32 |
| charlie-tca | !info lightdm | 15:32 |
| ubottu | lightdm (source: lightdm): Display Manager. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.2.3-0ubuntu2 (natty), package size 47 kB, installed size 236 kB | 15:32 |
| madnick | thanks | 15:32 |
| charlie-tca | If you need the oneiric one, use | 15:32 |
| charlie-tca | !info lightdm oneiric | 15:32 |
| ubottu | lightdm (source: lightdm): Display Manager. In component main, is optional. Version 0.9.3-0ubuntu3 (oneiric), package size 79 kB, installed size 356 kB | 15:33 |
| charlie-tca | Since oneiric is development only at this time, it takes extra work to see the package | 15:33 |
| charlie-tca | but that is a big jump in versions | 15:34 |
| charlie-tca | I have to order another motherboard, I guess. This latest used computer I picked up just keeps failing | 15:35 |
| charlie-tca | I guess that is what $10.00 US dollars buys now | 15:35 |
| madnick | http://madnick.se/~madnick/xubuntu/xubuntu-greeter-draft.png | 15:38 |
| madnick | quick change | 15:38 |
| madnick | ill do something about users also | 15:38 |
| madnick | But something like that (even tho it wont look like that, but you get the idea:)) | 15:38 |
| madnick | Sessions and keyboard settings at bottom | 15:38 |
| charlie-tca | That's the idea. | 15:46 |
| charlie-tca | Thank you | 15:46 |
| charlie-tca | Don't let anyone tell you we don't want that, though | 15:46 |
| charlie-tca | You can't make everyone happy, I know that. Trying to get all of us to agree will result in no display at all | 15:47 |
| madnick | speaking of that, the plymouth stuff; you wanted a package on monday? knome said he get back to me before friday, so i will have ~2 days :P | 15:49 |
| madnick | ochosi still not here | 15:49 |
| madnick | :( | 15:49 |
| charlie-tca | If I was you, I would have a package ready or close to it. | 15:49 |
| madnick | charlie-tca: i do already ;) | 15:49 |
| madnick | I just have not built it yet | 15:49 |
| charlie-tca | User interface freeze is August 25. We have to have it in before that | 15:50 |
| madnick | But all scripts etc are in place to just hit "build" | 15:50 |
| charlie-tca | I see ochosi isn't here yet. Maybe he is on holidays this week too? | 15:50 |
| charlie-tca | You can always ask TheSheep too. He is very good with critique of the work | 15:51 |
| madnick | :) | 15:51 |
| micahg | is it possible to set the background with the gtk greeter using lightdm-set-defaults? | 15:56 |
| charlie-tca | I can't even seem to get rid of the unity-greeter here. Without it, lightdm won't start | 15:59 |
| micahg | charlie-tca: heh, I said that the other day :) | 15:59 |
| charlie-tca | Got to have a new install, I guess | 16:00 |
| charlie-tca | desktop images working today | 16:00 |
| charlie-tca | Lightdm is working good with lightdm-gtk-greeter on fresh installs and live sessions | 16:01 |
| charlie-tca | Guess I will remove it from this machine completely, and then reinstall it | 16:02 |
| charlie-tca | I really dislike unity-greeter | 16:02 |
| charlie-tca | I have reached the point of really, really not liking the way it works | 16:03 |
| micahg | I think lightdm needs package triggers | 16:06 |
| micahg | charlie-tca: can you try dpkg-reconfigure xubuntu-default-settings? | 16:07 |
| charlie-tca | to get rid of unity-greeter? | 16:07 |
| charlie-tca | $ sudo dpkg-reconfigure xubuntu-default-settings | 16:09 |
| charlie-tca | [sudo] password for charlie: | 16:09 |
| charlie-tca | dpkg-maintscript-helper: warning: environment variable DPKG_MAINTSCRIPT_NAME missing | 16:09 |
| charlie-tca | dpkg-maintscript-helper: warning: environment variable DPKG_MAINTSCRIPT_PACKAGE missing | 16:09 |
| micahg | \o/ | 16:09 |
| * charlie-tca nods | 16:09 | |
| micahg | charlie-tca: not to get rid of unity, but it should reconfigure lightdm to use the gtk greeter | 16:10 |
| charlie-tca | I see | 16:10 |
| charlie-tca | It doesn't run | 16:10 |
| micahg | in theory | 16:10 |
| charlie-tca | heh | 16:10 |
| charlie-tca | at least I don't think it did | 16:10 |
| micahg | well, mr_pouit made xubuntu-default-settings set certain env settings for lightdm IIRC | 16:13 |
| charlie-tca | It seems very difficult this cycle to get the already installed stuff at the same place as the fresh installs | 16:15 |
| charlie-tca | And I don't mean just us, either | 16:15 |
| charlie-tca | I will be doing a fresh installation here for beta1, if not sooner | 16:20 |
| mr_pouit | o hai (sorry for being silent for a week, but i've been a bit bored but all these lightdm issues, so I took a "forced" break until they did something :/) | 17:37 |
| mr_pouit | micahg: dpkg-reconfiguring won't do, because the maintainer scripts only change lightdm's config if nothing is already defined | 17:38 |
| mr_pouit | s/but/by/ | 17:38 |
| mr_pouit | you can run manually: sudo /usr/lib/lightdm/lightdm-set-defaults --session=xubuntu | 17:39 |
| mr_pouit | and sudo /usr/lib/lightdm/lightdm-set-defaults --greeter=lightdm-gtk-greeter | 17:39 |
| mr_pouit | (if you don't want to override any existing settings, add --keep-old | 17:39 |
| micahg | mr_pouit: cool, thanks | 17:39 |
| charlie-tca | mr_pouit: the only problem I have with that is the "they" decided lightdm was finished and working, and I had to figure out what to push hard to get it fixed. | 18:23 |
| charlie-tca | But anyway, it seems we got it done! | 18:24 |
| madnick | Seems a bit late for this mutliarch things :) | 21:06 |
| madnick | i mean ia32 wont live much longer :P | 21:06 |
| micahg | madnick: multiarch has been in progress since last cycle and will continue for a few more | 21:32 |
| madnick | :) | 21:40 |
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