[15:10] <madnick> http://madnick.se/~madnick/xubuntu/xubuntu-greeter.png
[15:10] <madnick> knome: 
[15:10] <madnick> comments?
[15:11] <madnick> The < > are for iterating through users and sessinos
[15:11] <charlie-tca> madnick: how will the user know that means that?
[15:12] <charlie-tca> That is about as intuitive as the gear unity is using
[15:12] <madnick> So it should cleary state
[15:12] <charlie-tca> please
[15:12] <madnick> Sessions:
[15:12] <madnick> okay
[15:16] <madnick> charlie-tca: how would you want it presented? Usability wise, a list that is always visable?
[15:17] <charlie-tca> I don't care if the list itself is always there, but the identity of what the list is needs to be there.
[15:17] <madnick> ah
[15:17] <charlie-tca> The idea that new users will not know anything anyway is fine for unity. That is their goal. Mine is users need to know what anything we put up means
[15:18] <charlie-tca> If the user has to click everything on the page to guess what anything is, it fails
[15:19] <charlie-tca> right now, since unity login defaults to the original user of the system, I get password failed on every login
[15:19] <charlie-tca> There is nothing easy to show who is logging in, what session they are picking, where to pick a session, etc.
[15:20] <charlie-tca> There is not even a blinking cursor to say you actually managed to select the password bos
[15:20] <charlie-tca> s/bos/box
[15:20] <madnick> nope, they hide that
[15:20] <madnick> ok
[15:20] <madnick> So usability is priority 1 :)
[15:20] <madnick> Ill see what I can do
[15:20] <charlie-tca> yes
[15:21] <charlie-tca> If we have a pretty interface that is horrible to use, it fails
[15:22] <madnick> yeah
[15:22] <charlie-tca> I would rather stay with the gtk greeter than have something remotely resembling unity right now
[15:22] <charlie-tca> Sorry. I know that doesn't sound right, but usability is everything
[15:23] <madnick> Maybe I should explain what I was thinking :) I thought "default session -> default user -> enter password -> login" 
[15:23] <madnick> I was thinking that was a clean way for new users not to poke around too much
[15:24] <madnick> But I do understand that It lacks explainatory features, and I will fix them
[15:24] <charlie-tca> That works, but if a user doesn't know what to do to change a session??? 
[15:25] <madnick> Yeah it must state Session there, I wouldnt understand it myself tbh when i think about it :P
[15:25] <charlie-tca> Users do not know by tele-kinesis what we expect them to, even if Unity thinks they do
[15:26] <TheSheep> you mean tele-cognition?
[15:26] <madnick> i guess i could make a panel like in 11.04
[15:26] <TheSheep> kinesis is when things move
[15:26] <charlie-tca> More and more, designers are planning things that users "can learn to do", instead of "using it should not take learning"
[15:26] <madnick> for session selection
[15:26] <charlie-tca> Thanks, TheSheep 
[15:26] <TheSheep> charlie-tca: everything takes learning
[15:27] <madnick> on the bbottom :)
[15:27] <TheSheep> charlie-tca: the only intuitive interface is the nipple
[15:27] <charlie-tca> TheSheep: does that mean we can't make it easy to learn?
[15:27] <TheSheep> charlie-tca: you can make it similar to other things you have learned
[15:27] <charlie-tca> Obviously, you haven't tried the unity-greeter lately?
[15:27] <TheSheep> charlie-tca: but new people will find *that* awkward, as they will lack your exposure to windows 95 user interface
[15:28] <charlie-tca> huh?
[15:28] <charlie-tca> what did windows 95 have?
[15:28] <TheSheep> charlie-tca: unity is horrible, but not because of reinventing things
[15:28] <charlie-tca> I liked the windows 3.1 login
[15:28] <charlie-tca> heh
[15:28] <TheSheep> charlie-tca: it's horrible because of a really bad process of inventing and testing them
[15:28] <charlie-tca> and no, I am not opposed to change :)
[15:29] <TheSheep> charlie-tca: no, I didn't see unity greeter, but I can imagine it
[15:29] <charlie-tca> They have a gear now, which might be hidden by having too long a name, to click on to change sessions
[15:30] <TheSheep> why would you want to change sessions? ;)
[15:30] <charlie-tca> You can have about 20 letters in name only now
[15:30] <TheSheep> I was thinking about switching to haiku
[15:30] <TheSheep> it has a nice and well thought out user interface
[15:30]  * charlie-tca slaps head. never occurred to him they don't want the user changing sessions
[15:31] <charlie-tca> Hopefully, Xubuntu will have a nice, well thought out interface, too.
[15:32] <TheSheep> it's breaking down slowly
[15:32] <madnick> how do i see what version of lightdm is in the repo?
[15:32] <madnick> (using the channel bot) :P
[15:32] <charlie-tca> madnick: we do still have crt users, too. Not everyone has high-quality, high-definition lcd or plasma displays yet.
[15:32] <charlie-tca> !info lightdm
[15:32] <madnick> thanks
[15:32] <charlie-tca> If you need the oneiric one, use
[15:32] <charlie-tca> !info lightdm oneiric
[15:33] <charlie-tca> Since oneiric is development only at this time, it takes extra work to see the package
[15:34] <charlie-tca> but that is a big jump in versions
[15:35] <charlie-tca> I have to order another motherboard, I guess. This latest used computer I picked up just keeps failing
[15:35] <charlie-tca> I guess that is what $10.00 US dollars buys now
[15:38] <madnick> http://madnick.se/~madnick/xubuntu/xubuntu-greeter-draft.png
[15:38] <madnick> quick change
[15:38] <madnick> ill do something about users also
[15:38] <madnick> But something like that (even tho it wont look like that, but you get the idea:))
[15:38] <madnick> Sessions and keyboard settings at bottom
[15:46] <charlie-tca> That's the idea. 
[15:46] <charlie-tca> Thank you
[15:46] <charlie-tca> Don't let anyone tell you we don't want that, though
[15:47] <charlie-tca> You can't make everyone happy, I know that. Trying to get all of us to agree will result in no display at all
[15:49] <madnick> speaking of that, the plymouth stuff; you wanted a package on monday? knome said he get back to me before friday, so i will have ~2 days :P
[15:49] <madnick> ochosi still not here
[15:49] <madnick> :(
[15:49] <charlie-tca> If I was you, I would have a package ready or close to it. 
[15:49] <madnick> charlie-tca: i do already ;)
[15:49] <madnick> I just have not built it yet
[15:50] <charlie-tca> User interface freeze is August 25. We have to have it in before that
[15:50] <madnick> But all scripts etc are in place to just hit "build"
[15:50] <charlie-tca> I see ochosi isn't here yet. Maybe he is on holidays this week too?
[15:51] <charlie-tca> You can always ask TheSheep too. He is very good with critique of the work
[15:51] <madnick> :)
[15:56] <micahg> is it possible to set the background with the gtk greeter using lightdm-set-defaults?
[15:59] <charlie-tca> I can't even seem to get rid of the unity-greeter here. Without it, lightdm won't start
[15:59] <micahg> charlie-tca: heh, I said that the other day :)
[16:00] <charlie-tca> Got to have a new install, I guess
[16:00] <charlie-tca> desktop images working today
[16:01] <charlie-tca> Lightdm is working good with lightdm-gtk-greeter on fresh installs and live sessions
[16:02] <charlie-tca> Guess I will remove it from this machine completely, and then reinstall it
[16:02] <charlie-tca> I really dislike unity-greeter
[16:03] <charlie-tca> I have reached the point of really, really not liking the way it works
[16:06] <micahg> I think lightdm needs package triggers
[16:07] <micahg> charlie-tca: can you try dpkg-reconfigure xubuntu-default-settings?
[16:07] <charlie-tca> to get rid of unity-greeter?
[16:09] <charlie-tca> $ sudo dpkg-reconfigure xubuntu-default-settings
[16:09] <charlie-tca> [sudo] password for charlie: 
[16:09] <charlie-tca> dpkg-maintscript-helper: warning: environment variable DPKG_MAINTSCRIPT_NAME missing
[16:09] <charlie-tca> dpkg-maintscript-helper: warning: environment variable DPKG_MAINTSCRIPT_PACKAGE missing
[16:09] <micahg> \o/
[16:09]  * charlie-tca nods
[16:10] <micahg> charlie-tca: not to get rid of unity, but it should reconfigure lightdm to use the gtk greeter
[16:10] <charlie-tca> I see
[16:10] <charlie-tca> It doesn't run
[16:10] <micahg> in theory
[16:10] <charlie-tca> heh
[16:10] <charlie-tca> at least I don't think it did
[16:13] <micahg> well, mr_pouit made xubuntu-default-settings set certain env settings for lightdm IIRC
[16:15] <charlie-tca> It seems very difficult this cycle to get the already installed stuff at the same place as the fresh installs
[16:15] <charlie-tca> And I don't mean just us, either
[16:20] <charlie-tca> I will be doing a fresh installation here for beta1, if not sooner
[17:37] <mr_pouit> o hai (sorry for being silent for a week, but i've been a bit bored but all these lightdm issues, so I took a "forced" break until they did something :/)
[17:38] <mr_pouit> micahg: dpkg-reconfiguring won't do, because the maintainer scripts only change lightdm's config if nothing is already defined
[17:38] <mr_pouit> s/but/by/
[17:39] <mr_pouit> you can run manually: sudo /usr/lib/lightdm/lightdm-set-defaults --session=xubuntu
[17:39] <mr_pouit> and sudo /usr/lib/lightdm/lightdm-set-defaults --greeter=lightdm-gtk-greeter
[17:39] <mr_pouit> (if you don't want to override any existing settings, add --keep-old
[17:39] <micahg> mr_pouit: cool, thanks
[18:23] <charlie-tca> mr_pouit: the only problem I have with that is the "they" decided lightdm was finished and working, and I had to figure out what to push hard to get it fixed.
[18:24] <charlie-tca> But anyway, it seems we got it done!
[21:06] <madnick> Seems a bit late for this mutliarch things :)
[21:06] <madnick> i mean ia32 wont live much longer :P
[21:32] <micahg> madnick: multiarch has been in progress since last cycle and will continue for a few more
[21:40] <madnick> :)