rick_h_sweet, just got an email from someone doing the sqlalchemy homework from pyohio01:52
rick_h_of course it's because I asked them to do an impossibly query, but still01:52
=== Team-Xlink is now known as TeamXlink
TeamXlinkHas anyone else noticed how Google Chrome opens up a new proccess for each tab?06:38
Wolfgerer, I mean, good morning!11:37
snap-lGood morning11:45
* snap-l tired11:45
snap-lBut, on the plus side, I now know what we're doing Saturday Night.11:45
brouschhot tub party?11:46
snap-land BURNOUT CONTEST11:47
DuolosG'mornin', happy people!11:47
snap-lIt's like it was tailor made for us.11:47
snap-lhttp://www.gibraltartrade.com/bikenight.php <- Bike Night at Gibraltar11:49
snap-lsomewhat safe for work.11:49
brouschi didn't know you were a gearhead11:49
snap-lI'm not.11:49
snap-lNot even remotely.11:50
snap-lI'm just a fan of Gibraltar Trade Center, which is like a completely different world.11:51
brouschSo it's jodee that gets off on the powerful engines and shirtless beerbellies?11:52
snap-lbrousch: Oh, totally.11:53
snap-lThat's why she married Mr. Caliber driver. :)11:53
brouschthat's a lot of stores11:55
snap-lIt's my go-to place to get a Velvet Elvis in a hurry.11:55
snap-lOr a Scarface poster.11:55
brouschor an oversized marijuana leaf blanket?11:56
snap-lbrousch: Or speaker cabinets for my car of dubious quality.11:56
snap-lAlso the home of the Fauch purse11:57
rick_h_cool on the google doodle today: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/google/google-doodle/8706390/Pierre-de-Fermats-birthday-celebrated-in-Google-Doodle.html11:59
snap-lWell lookie there. Firefox 6? Yes, please.12:08
snap-lbrousch: Eh?12:08
snap-lAh, that thing. :)12:08
Wolfgercool Google doodle today: http://www.google.com/  <-- fixed that for rick_h_12:10
rick_h_sorry, I needed the cheat sheet to remember wtf it was12:10
rick_h_I figured you all could find the doodle itself12:10
snap-lrick_h_: I needed the cheat sheet as well. ;)12:12
snap-lI'm starting to formulate a post for Oneiric: Doubling Down on Dubious Design Decisions.12:34
Wolfgeroh boy12:37
Wolfgeris the ruckus going to be as bad as it was over the 11.04 changes?12:37
brouschquintuple D?12:38
Wolfgerit's the next big thing in hollywood12:39
Wolfgerwait til you see what the glasses look like12:39
brouschi was thinking more along the lines of cup size12:40
snap-lNah, I don't think it'll be nearly as bad12:44
Wolfgerbrousch: are you implying the blogger is a big boob? ;-)12:45
snap-lbut I'd like to open some dialog with the designers on why they're doing what they're doing, and unfortunately this is the only forum I'm aware of for making such questions available.12:46
Wolfgergo ask in #ubuntu?12:52
snap-lI think Apress doesn't quite understand their audience13:23
snap-lDeal of the Day: Getting StartED with Windows 7 (inebook format)13:23
snap-lIf you need an book to get started with Windows 7, I'm sure making it available in eBook format isn't going to do you much good)13:23
WolfgerI sometimes wonder what the Founding Fathers would think of the modern world of communication. I mean, back then, "freedom of the press" basically was just freedom for anybody wealthy enough to own a printing press.13:27
WolfgerIn the modern world with laser printers, blogs, e-books, etc... literally anybody can publish anything.13:27
WolfgerI wonder if the FF would be amazed or appalled.13:28
Wolfgersnap-l: that's pretty sleazy of LinkedIn...13:34
snap-lWolfger: Isn't it? :)13:44
snap-lLooking to see if I can upgrade to Oneiric on my laptop13:50
snap-lif you hear screaming and wailing and gnashing of teeth, you'll know why. ;)13:51
brouschback up ur music13:51
snap-lIt's on another machie13:51
snap-lbut yes, I'm backing up my home dir on this machine13:51
snap-lThis is what rsync was made for. ;)13:54
rick_h_wow, that good eh?13:55
rick_h_going to update the live machine?13:55
brouschsnap-l is the bravest man i know13:55
snap-lThis is my laptop (CHC laptop)13:55
snap-lso it's not my primary machine13:55
* Wolfger goes alpha on his main box13:56
Wolfgeronly box13:56
brouschkubuntu alpha even13:56
brouschok, wolfer wins13:56
rick_h_yea, but CHC is tonight13:56
rick_h_brave man13:56
snap-lAnd I figure I need to use it in order to talk about it13:56
Wolfgertrue. and true.13:56
snap-lWorst case, I'll bring a book. ;)13:56
Wolfgerso I know that if I have an IP like with a gateway of, that is a broadcast address... but...14:08
Wolfgerif I have a gateway of, that should be an assignable address, yes? Or do we avoid it for the sake of standardization?14:09
krondorWolfger:  I think that would be assignable.  I think your broadcast address would be
krondor252 would give you 2 third octets basically to assign (excluding that last 255 for broadcast)14:19
Wolfger4, not 2, right?14:22
WolfgerI'm on .49.x, .50.x, and .51.x for sure... not sure if I get .48.x or .52.x14:23
Wolfger255.255.254.0 would give me 214:23
WolfgerI was just wondering if I should be annoyed that while I'm configuring these addresses, that the person assigning IP's skipped for no good reason that I know of. :-)14:25
krondoryou're right woops.. you'll get 48,50,51 up to 25514:25
Wolfgerok, thanks for confirming my belief14:26
Wolfgerit's been too long since I actively practiced my network knowledge14:26
jrwrenholy shit, my linux-fu is weak... exim just kicked my ass and I gave up!14:35
rick_h_heh, well it is email14:37
rick_h_and email is always on the hard end14:37
jrwreni used to be an email administrator.14:37
jrwrenand I still run postfix for xmtp.net14:37
jrwrenpostfix makes things easier.14:37
jrwrennot easy, but easier.14:37
krondorI've always been a fan of postfix14:37
rick_h_yea +114:38
jrwreni just haven't lost at anything linux in a long time.14:42
jrwreni want to do something, i go read the docs, adn I do it.14:42
jrwreni guess I can say "if i don't fail, i'm not trying hard enough" as a positive.14:43
jrwrenbut man this sucks.14:43
rick_h_given enough time you could do it14:43
rick_h_just a matter of "not worth time"14:43
brouschemail is a pain. that's why i let google handle it14:44
jrwrencursed time.14:45
jrwrenkeeps on slippin14:45
snap-lSeriously, unless you have a really good reason to use exim, I'd stick with postfix14:47
snap-lreally good reasons include: running high-volume mail servers14:47
snap-lwhere high volume > 100 messages per second.14:48
snap-lOtherwise, postfix should more thanhandle what you might need.14:48
krondoreven then there is some nice tuning that can be done in postfix for high volume http://www.postfix.org/TUNING_README.html14:52
snap-lriddle me this: http://soundcloud.com/daniel-a-solis/the-no-nos-of-game-design15:07
snap-lIs there a way to download this track, or is soundcloud essentially scribd for audio files.15:07
Wolfgerdunno... blocked by firewall :-p15:10
brousch<div class="hidden download-options action-overlay" data-sc-track="21074366"><div class="action-overlay-inner">This track is not downloadable</div></div>15:12
snap-lSent a note to the author to rectify15:12
nullspacehome workbench nearing completion http://se7enlabs.org/bench.jpg15:13
snap-lnullspace: Nice.15:13
brouschthen you can save the page as mp315:14
snap-lbrousch: Thanks!15:14
brouschima 1337 h4x0r d00d15:15
nullspacethe more carpentry I do the closer I get to not sucking15:16
brouschi can build things out of wood. functional, massive things. but i cannot build pretty things15:17
nullspaceI need more practice with a nail gun15:20
nullspaceI found a drywall square and a pencil help with limiting erronus nails15:21
jrwrennullspace: it hangs? it has no legs!15:22
* jrwren sings the no legs song like Eddy Murphy in Trading Places15:22
rick_h_nullspace: that's not a bench, this is a bench: https://picasaweb.google.com/112719704219936118281/Workbench#538391416941233888215:22
rick_h_cool on the new workspace15:23
jrwrenum....   I think the cost in wood alone there doesn't make them comparable.15:23
rick_h_ash is cheap these days :)15:23
jrwrenfiber board v. solid wood15:23
jrwrenis it?15:23
rick_h_yea, all the ash borer15:23
nullspacerick_h_: I'm getting a 500 from that link15:24
rick_h_but yea, $150 in word and aonther $150 for vice/leg bolt hardware15:24
rick_h_nullspace: hmm https://picasaweb.google.com/112719704219936118281/Workbench#538391416498694326615:24
rick_h_that should work15:25
rick_h_just kidding though, too much "that's not a knife, this is a knife" as a kid15:26
nullspacewhat's the dimensions?15:26
brouschi would take a picture of mine, but it would take approx 3 days to dig it out from under all the other garage stuff15:26
nullspaceI'm 3'x8'15:26
snap-lI trust Ikea to do all of my carpenteering. ;)15:26
nullspaceahem my bench is 3'x8'15:27
rick_h_76 x 23 I think15:27
rick_h_3'? that's deep15:27
nullspaceI can easily reach across it15:29
nullspacefigured I'd get as much bench as it was comfortable for me15:31
brouschit's not the size of the bench that matters. when we were house-hunting we went through a house full of beautiful wood work, which the owner had done himself. the house had no garage and his workspace was a 5ftx5ft area tucked behind the furnace15:34
nullspacebut I can take a nap on mine15:36
brouschah, now the real reason for a workbench comes out ;)15:38
snap-land when nullspace pissess off Mrs. nullspace, he'll have an option besides the couch for sleeping arrangements. ;)15:39
nullspacenah, I just like lots of work space realestate15:39
jrwrennullspace has those LONG ARMS for reaching across15:40
snap-lAbout 9 minutes left of package downloads.15:41
jrwreni just don't see nullspace pissing off mrs. nullspace. Maybe I've not spent enough time around 'em.15:41
snap-lThen comes the fun part... installing the packages.15:41
jrwrensnap-l: packages?15:41
snap-lOneiric upgrade15:41
jrwrenupgrade?!?  yow!15:41
jrwrenits kinda early isn't it?15:42
snap-lAlpha 315:42
jrwreni'm afraid to upgrade15:42
snap-lWell, I'm looking to try to help stem the tide15:43
snap-land hopefully get some fixed shit (like my wireless card)15:43
snap-lhttp://eclipsephase.com/panopticon-street-date-announced-preview-2-and-three-electronic-releases-tomorrow <- Can't wait for this to release as PDF.15:49
jrwrensnap-l: is that art?15:56
snap-ljrwren: Which one?15:58
snap-lThat's the art for the book15:59
snap-land they have a hack pack which shold have larger versions15:59
snap-lso you can have an uplifted octopus getting attacked by a monkey as your desktop15:59
snap-lAbout 29 minutes remaining on the upgrade16:26
snap-lAnd thus was heard another nail in the Palm coffin16:28
snap-lI think Palm's WebOS has a brighter future in multi-function printers than in Tablets / Mobile.16:30
rick_h_so now my only hope is for htc to get pissed, license webos, and ditch android16:31
rick_h_if the damn thing just came out on good hardware it's be more popular16:31
rick_h_pre3 announced almost a year ago16:31
rick_h_just not hitting uk, us to come later *sigh*16:31
snap-lUnfortunately, WebOS is much like the Foleo: usurped by everything else that came afterward16:32
snap-lFoleo: Neat idea, but netbook market quickly quashed it16:32
snap-lNeato, apport couldn't be installed.16:33
rick_h_still can't get a decent real keyboard on an android/iphone16:33
rick_h_no touchstone16:33
snap-lAwesome, someone goofed the install script.16:34
snap-lJava cacerts also looks goofed up16:34
snap-lBanshee is the default media player? Oh this should be fun.16:35
rick_h_thought it was last release16:35
snap-lreplaces totem as the default instead of totem16:36
snap-lWow, I fail English16:36
Wolfgeryes, you do16:41
snap-lBTW: The next time you use Musicbrainz, please thank them.16:46
snap-lI've imported some entries from FreeDB into Musicbrainz, and the best I can say of FreeDB is "God-awful".16:47
snap-lLudwig van Bethoven16:47
snap-lAnd here's the problem with apport17:03
snap-ldef add_info(report, ui):17:03
snap-l    add_installation_log(report, 'UbiquitySyslog', 'syslog')17:03
snap-l    syslog = report['UbiquitySyslog']17:03
snap-l    if 'Buffer I/O error on device' in syslog:17:03
snap-l        if not re.search('Attached .* CD-ROM (\w+)', syslog):17:03
snap-l            continue17:03
snap-lApparently someone fails at Python17:04
snap-lFucking piece of shit17:05
snap-lreplaced continue with return, and now things appear happier.17:05
snap-lGoing to attempt a reboot on this machine now.17:06
_stink_does python even let you have continue outside the context of a loop?17:12
snap-lOh, even better, this No, which is why this crashed.17:12
_stink_ah, ok, phew17:12
snap-lOh don't worry, it's still fucked.17:12
snap-lI swear, I don't know why I even trust upgrades anymore.17:14
brouschbecause you love the pain17:14
ColonelPanic001ubuntu upgrades? I just reformat and install, usually17:14
brouschthe same reason you wear wool panties17:14
ColonelPanic001or backup and assume I'll probably do that anyway17:14
brouschyou're not happy without an itch to scratch17:14
snap-lHey, and my machine is slower than it was before17:15
snap-lmiracle of miracles.17:16
brouschhm, i think i can get a slogan out of that17:16
snap-lI can think of one too17:16
brouschYou use Linux for the same reason you wear wool undies. You're not happy without an itch to scratch.17:16
brouschi'm tweeting it17:17
snap-lGoing to see if the package update fixes shit17:18
snap-land if it doesn't, going to try a re-install17:18
jrwreni've upgraded successfully since 2005. I never reinstall.17:18
snap-ljrwren: Might I recommend a change in strategy should you upgrade to any of the 11.x series.17:19
snap-lI think the settings daemon is kerfuckled.17:20
snap-lYep, it's fucked.17:20
jrwren11.04 was fine.17:20
jrwren11.10, i shall see.17:20
Wolfgersnap-l: ++ on the new word in my dictionary17:23
brouschit helps if you wait 2 months after release17:25
snap-lWell, this is entertaining.17:29
rick_h_snap-l: ok, so we started with 'brave' we now reffer to you as *#$@#'d17:31
snap-lInteresting how that works, isn't it? :)17:31
snap-lGoing to try UNity 2D17:37
snap-lAlso, whomever thought removing the CTRL-ALT-BACKSPACE combo was a nifty keen idea? FUCK YOU IN THE FUCKING NECK!17:38
brouschhow do you fuck someone in the neck?17:40
_stink_i can think of two ways17:40
snap-lAnd now I'm Unity 2d, or as I like to call it: Ubuntu Tinkertoy edition17:44
Wolfger_stink_: two? I'm frightened17:46
_stink_already wrote them into the trashy romance novel i'm writing17:46
WolfgerI'm afraid to even inquire as to what the second way is. I mean, the tracheotomy route is obvious...17:48
_stink_you'll have to buy the book!17:48
snap-lWell, that was loaded with fail.17:50
brouschis it about a parapalegic women who can only move her head?17:50
snap-lCan't wait for what sorts of nonsense the LTS will unleash17:52
snap-lIt's funny, my dad is looking to get a new laptop17:53
snap-land he really wants to put Ubuntu on it as the primary OS.17:53
rick_h_snap-l: did you see? http://twitter.com/#!/pumpichank/status/10358125006488780817:53
rick_h_you mention ati in your G+ post17:53
snap-land I get a sick feeling in my stomach because he hasn't seen Natty yet.17:54
snap-lExperienced it first-hand.17:54
rick_h_ok, I guess I mean did you see it BEFORE you went installing/upgrading/etc17:54
rick_h_and did you expect a different result?17:54
snap-lrick_h_: Why would I let a fool thing like that get in the way? ;)17:54
rick_h_lol, ok just checking17:55
snap-lI didn't internalize it when I saw it initially, but yes, I'm remembering now.17:55
snap-lReinstalling Natty now.17:55
brouschsnap-l: just give him 10.0417:56
snap-lbrousch: at some point 10.04 isn't going to cut it anymore.17:56
brouschyeah, in 201317:56
brouschby then natty should be sorted out or dead17:57
brouschunity i mean17:57
snap-lI'm not so certain anymore17:57
snap-lOK< this is horseshit.17:58
snap-lreinstalling natty locked up17:58
snap-lI'll give you three guesses why more developers are showing up at conferences with Macintosh machines.18:00
brouschubuntu had a good showing at pyohio18:00
brouschmore than last year18:00
brouschbut the natty on projector gymnastics was painful to watch18:00
* Wolfger looks into getting a macbook18:04
Wolfgerno, that's crazy talk18:04
brouschi'll sell you mine for $95018:05
Blazeixdon't leave linux just because of ubuntu :(18:06
snap-lI think it's just time I admit it... I use Ubuntu because I'm too cheap to buy a mac. :)18:10
Blazeixer, hell, just use ubuntu alternate + xfce18:10
snap-lTried XFCE, and it's a little painful to use18:10
rick_h_snap-l: you intentionally installed a alpha release and it borked on you and now you're linux hating?18:11
jrwreni shouldn't have read the scrollback... because I jsut thought of 4 ways18:11
BlazeixI think the linux hating is natty messing up18:11
snap-lrick_h_: No18:11
rick_h_ok, nvm then, carry on with the hating18:11
jrwrenuse openbsd!18:11
Blazeixsnap-l: yeah, I chose xfce because you're a unity user. obviously you should switch to a tiling wm18:12
snap-lI'm just getting cranky with the direction that things are heading18:12
snap-lAnd I'm feeling powerless to change the direction18:12
brouschsnap-l: kubuntu is still there!18:13
brouschbut i feel your pain, which is why i'm on 10.0418:13
snap-lWell, and worse, we're relying on third party developers to make good graphics drivers18:14
snap-land that's not happening18:14
snap-lAnd I'm sorry, but Unity 2D is not the same.18:14
snap-lSorry, getting frustrated.18:14
jrwrenWindows starter edition is cheap *snicker*18:18
WolfgerFree with the purchase of a new laptop...18:20
Blazeixactually, is Gnome 3 / Gnome Shell available for Ubuntu? That might scratch your itch for something different.18:26
Blazeixmight end up making you more cranky, though...18:27
jrwrenunity is gnome3 just with a custom panel, right?18:37
Blazeixoh, i thought it was completely different18:38
Blazeixafaik gnome3 = gtk3, unity = gtk2, for one thing18:38
brouschi thought regular gnome3 was going to be available for 11.1018:38
brouschbut it's as big a change as unity18:38
BlazeixI heard plans of rewriting unity as a gnome 3 extension, at some point18:38
brouschsnap-l: have you seen this?http://dvice.com/archives/2011/08/worlds-fastest-8.php18:41
nullspaceare we hating on unity and gnome 3.0?18:50
Blazeixactually, I think the hate is for general bugginess in installation processes.18:51
brouschi thought we were complaining about unstable alpha releases18:57
snap-lMy hate is for a stack that has weak links like proprietary drivers.18:57
brouschubuntu alphas should be as stable as google betas18:57
nullspacetalking to a guy who has a blacklisted gpu, seriously blacklisted?18:58
snap-lNothing more beautiful than watching rsync overload a framebuffer.19:03
jjessemy update this morning blew up my VM good thing nothing serious was on it19:04
_stink_just got this text from my mom: "We have IT guys here working on our phones. It's amazing how creepy some IT guys look!"19:25
_stink_my response: "They make us put creepy costumes on before work. That, or it's evidence that most IT guys live in their parents' basement."19:25
rick_h_grumble, no luck tuning any channels with this tv tuner stick/antenna19:41
rick_h_even sitting outside o nthe upstair deck19:41
jrwrenhow far are you?19:49
jrwrenClarkston is only like 40 miles.19:50
jrwrenI think I'm probably about the same.19:50
rick_h_this site says 20ish miles from towers19:50
rick_h_antennsa says it should work 35mi19:50
rick_h_might have to go up an antenna level19:51
rick_h_I'll try it at CHC tonight, will bring me close by19:51
rick_h_if it works there, then I know it's just antenna reach I guess19:51
rick_h_ugh, so close to getting cable cut19:51
jrwreni cut mine.19:58
jrwrendo you use cable modem?19:58
jrwrencomcast still sends local stations down the analog cable if you have a cable modem, so you will have local channels.19:59
rick_h_I'm on uverse rightnow19:59
jrwrenah, nope. bummer19:59
rick_h_so use their net connection with cable package19:59
jrwrenthey might too, i just don't know.19:59
rick_h_ah yea20:00
rick_h_I want to get the antenna thing to work, seems like I should be able to easy enough20:00
rick_h_but then again, nothing's as easy as it seems20:00
snap-lbtw: glad I backed up this machine prior to install20:01
snap-lbecause I was seriously going to not do it, but better safe than sorrt.20:01
snap-lNot sure how I managed, but apparently I installed i686 instead of amd6420:15
snap-land a-reinstall we go20:16
snap-lcloser to just bringing a damn book and being done with it for today. ;)20:16
snap-lAnyone want to roll up some characters for CHC D&D?20:17
brouschug, i just poked at kubuntu for an hour. i have a headache20:20
brouschi can't believe people use it every day20:21
snap-lThey say the same about GNOME20:21
snap-lbut yeah, having mouseovers the size of trees is not my idea of fun20:22
brouschit's like they took win7 and said 'how can we make this uglier and more annoying?'20:23
jjessereally gave you a headache?20:29
krondorbrousch:  It's been awhile since I played in Kubuntu but in the past I never understood why they themed KDE the way they did.20:30
brouschit's very "what can we do" and not "what should we do"20:31
brouschsure you can make everything fade and slide and transparent, but you really shouldn't20:31
brouschi suppose unity is going the same route20:32
krondormaybe you just don't like the future ;)20:32
snap-lI can agree to that.20:34
BlazeixI think most terrible flashy desktops I've seen have been gnome, though. Courtesy of compiz/beryl20:35
brouschBlazeix: i never turn on compiz20:36
snap-lBlazeix: Yes, compiz can make a usability disaster20:36
snap-lbut Kubuntu ships as one.20:36
brouschi used it for about 18 months back around 2007. i swear it wasn't this annoying back then20:40
jrwrensnap-l: wait... ubuntu let you upgrade amd64 to i686 ?20:45
jrwrenwobbly windows!20:46
snap-ljrwren: No, I installed the wrong version when I reinstalled20:51
snap-lI have a directory of iso images, and I must've selected the wrong one.20:51
snap-lShould I be worried that JoDee is reading up on the Wikipedia articke on the Jewish tradition surrounding Lillith? :)21:01
snap-lrick_h_: ping21:18
rick_h_snap-l: pong23:54

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