[00:05] <charlie-tca> fixed the cheap, broken computer. Reset bios power saving from S3 to S1
[00:41] <charlie-tca> Good night
[15:11] <madnick> knome: I would need some artwork now :) (you told me to tell you if i did :P)
[15:13] <knome> uhhh. yeah
[15:13] <knome> what kind of?
[15:13] <charlie-tca> Oneiric Desktop i386 image went to 702.3MB today
[15:13] <madnick> knome: http://www.madnick.se/~madnick/xubuntu/xubuntu-greeter-draft4.png
[15:14] <madnick> Arrows for that :P
[15:14] <knome> mm-hmm
[15:15] <madnick> knome: if you dont like the theme, please tell me what to change :P
[15:15] <knome> were you thinking something in the glow-style?
[15:15] <knome> the center box is for pw?
[15:15] <madnick> knome: yes
[15:15] <madnick> Glowstyle is nice
[15:16] <madnick> centerbox is password (i need to work on my answers :P)
[15:16] <knome> imo the theme is a bit confusing now, but i think that's easy enough to workaround
[15:16] <knome> is the userbox also writable?
[15:16] <madnick> nope, but it could be :)
[15:16] <madnick> thats what the arrows are for
[15:17] <madnick> to change username and sessions
[15:17] <knome> mm-hmm
[15:17] <knome> the session box doesn't need to be writable, imo
[15:17] <knome> let me create quickly an improved mockup
[15:17] <madnick> okay :)
[15:28] <knome> madnick, http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/oneiric_lightdm/draft.png
[15:28] <knome> madnick, what about something as simple as that?
[15:28] <knome> madnick, the arrows don't really actually need the glow here, imo :)
[15:29] <madnick> nice! :)
[15:29] <knome> and this would be as consistent as possible with the plymouth theme
[15:29] <madnick> knome: is the arrows ascii chars?
[15:29] <knome> yeah, just < >
[15:30] <madnick> okay
[15:30]  * madnick wonders if there is a special one like ^ but for down
[15:30] <knome> for the clock and the shutdown icon, just a sec
[15:30] <knome> there's *something* but i don't know if that's really the "reverse" for ^
[15:30] <madnick> btw knome you said "consistent with plymouth" :P
[15:31] <madnick> There wont be a plymouth if you and ochosi cant agree :((
[15:31] <knome> heh, there will be
[15:31] <knome> :))
[15:32] <madnick> I didnt see what was wrong with the orginal idea 
[15:32] <madnick> It was very simple :P
[15:32] <madnick> and nice
[15:32] <knome> it was just confusing for me
[15:32] <madnick> i mean
[15:32] <madnick> the plymouth
[15:32] <knome> ah
[15:32] <madnick> And that version works and i have it running on all my workstations
[15:32] <knome> ochosi thinks that the progressbar going back and forth isn't the best way to indicate progress
[15:33] <knome> and he's right
[15:33] <madnick> Yes, but we need a package by monday
[15:34] <knome> yes.
[15:34] <knome> i know. :)
[15:34] <knome> don't worry baby, i'm an expert
[15:34] <knome> ;)
[15:34] <madnick> :P
[15:34] <knome> http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/oneiric_lightdm/draft-2.png
[15:35] <knome> draft for the clock and shutdown icon
[15:35] <knome> (just use any shutdown icon that's not that one :P)
[15:35] <madnick> :P
[15:35] <charlie-tca> Somewhere along the way, accessibility has gotten lost?
[15:36] <knome> ?
[15:36] <knome> another dropbox?
[15:36] <charlie-tca> There should be an icon to click for accessibility options on that screen too
[15:36] <knome> will it be a popup, or dropdown box
[15:36] <charlie-tca> should be next to shutdown icon
[15:36] <knome> sure
[15:37] <madnick> charlie-tca: if the theme is going to implemented accessability in the greeter, i need to know what accessability would mean in a greeter
[15:37] <charlie-tca> I don't know that a clock is important, who cares what time you type a password in, but being to access the options would be important.
[15:37]  * madnick tried current gtk greeter to see
[15:38] <charlie-tca> There's always been accessibility in the login screen
[15:38] <knome> charlie-tca, yes, we will add the accessibility button.
[15:38] <madnick> charlie-tca: yes, but since this a new theme, i would need to implemented accessability
[15:38] <madnick> High contrast + large fonts
[15:39] <charlie-tca> yes, along with Onboard if the user has selected it
[15:39] <madnick> onscreen keyboard?
[15:39] <charlie-tca> both onboard and orca have options to use them during the login. If we can get them in there, great. If we can not, we will release note it and it will be a regression bug
[15:40] <charlie-tca> yes
[15:40] <charlie-tca> If the user can not use a hardware keyboard, they must have onboard or another onscreen keyboard to use
[15:40] <madnick> charlie-tca: is that possibly in the gtk-greeter? (im wondering because then i can take some of that code)
[15:40] <charlie-tca> It was in there, but I haven'
[15:41] <charlie-tca> haven't looked lately
[15:41] <madnick> okay
[15:41] <charlie-tca> It was the two icons in the top right corner. 
[15:41] <madnick> yep, but for me there is no onscreen keyboard
[15:41] <madnick> But that can be arranged
[15:41] <charlie-tca> Right, it is a option the user has to specifically select, I believe.
[15:43] <madnick> okay
[15:43] <charlie-tca> I know accessibility takes a back seat with Unity, most of the rhetoric is "Accessibility is very important", but the actual doing is the last thing that happens, with the least amount of emphasis.
[15:44] <charlie-tca> However, maybe we can be the ones to keep it in the forefront ?
[15:45] <charlie-tca> I mean, afterall, accessibility for alpha3 was still not working, because design is more important.
[15:46] <madnick> yeah, it should be working
[15:48] <GridCube> knome mockup is nice but it lacks the same "what does the arrows do?" answer that charlie-tca asked to madnick the other day
[15:48] <GridCube> \o/ 3 highlights on one sentence
[15:51] <GridCube> but now i want  the greeter to have knome's shutdown icon
[15:52] <charlie-tca> madnick: OTOH, it may not matter, since orca is not working for us either.
[15:53] <charlie-tca> accessibility is all broken under gnome3, and may not work anyway if we stay with gtk2
[15:53] <charlie-tca> Kind of between the rock and a hard place now
[16:00] <madnick> charlie-tca: however, the greeter could implement its own accessability
[16:01] <madnick> but it might be useless if the accessability in the OS does not work
[16:01] <charlie-tca> agreed
[16:02]  * madnick just ate a candybar that had laid in gasolin :(((
[16:02] <charlie-tca> I heard that we now have accessibility working in the alternate session for Ubuntu. As far as Unity, it changes too often to follow again.
[16:02] <madnick> ah
[16:02] <charlie-tca> um, gasoline is bad for the humans
[16:02] <madnick> yeah :\
[16:02] <charlie-tca> not too good for any animal, as far as I know
[16:02] <madnick> It was wrapped in plastic, dont know if any of it got in
[16:03] <charlie-tca> hm... I tend the to follow the "bad for me if it smells bad" thing
[16:03] <madnick> i did not smell it :(
[16:03] <madnick> i shouldve
[16:03] <charlie-tca> lol
[16:03] <madnick> I tasted it, but then i spit it out, well most of it
[16:04] <charlie-tca> Well, then it shouldn't be too bad
[16:04] <madnick> but i ate a candy bar from the same location eariler :(
[16:04] <charlie-tca> although the last time I drank gasoline, it made parts of me numb
[16:04] <madnick> but it did not taste gaslin
[16:04] <madnick> you drank gasoline? :(
[16:04] <charlie-tca> Maybe the plastic protected it
[16:04] <charlie-tca> How else do you siphon it?
[16:05] <madnick> was it by accident?
[16:05] <charlie-tca> stick the hose in the tank, suck on it to start the flow, spit and hack for an hour...
[16:05] <madnick> oh
[16:05] <madnick> did you visit the doctor?
[16:06] <charlie-tca> no, I just figured it didn't kill me
[16:06] <charlie-tca> Maybe that was wrong?
[16:07] <madnick> might not be good for the liver / kidneys, but my friend texted me "you will puke if there is gasolin in it, and that clears it up"
[16:07] <charlie-tca> I have since given up gasoline as one of those things that is bad for me.
[16:08] <charlie-tca> See, so you are fine!
[16:08] <madnick> yeah hopefully :)
[16:10] <astraljava> charlie-tca: I see you haven't done that enough times. At some point, I did it so many times I began to notice when to stop sucking before the liquid actually hit my mouth. :D
[16:10] <astraljava> many enough*
[16:10] <astraljava> Or how do you say that, actually?
[16:12] <knome> astraljava, you say it like "et vaan osaa"
[16:12] <knome> :)
[16:12] <charlie-tca> I think you got it right. 
[16:12] <astraljava> *frown*
[16:12]  * astraljava has frowned too many times today already
[16:12] <astraljava> ...and probably keeps on frowning
[16:12] <knome> :)
[16:12] <charlie-tca> Yeah, some days are better days for frowning then smiling
[16:13] <charlie-tca> I had to quit doing the gasoline, it seems to be getting bad for me.
[16:13] <astraljava> charlie-tca: Yeah. Work has prevented me from my hobbies (read: ubuntu) for two and a half weeks now, and it doesn't look good for the near future either.
[16:13] <astraljava> Hahah!
[16:14] <astraljava> Yeah, but you really have to push it to keep on going, cause you'll get used to it eventually.
[16:14] <charlie-tca> Oh, by the way, anyone running oneiric should be waiting to restart after updating. It seems some computers are refusing to restart X after yesterdays glib update
[16:14] <astraljava> Oh nice.
[16:14] <charlie-tca> You think?
[16:14] <astraljava> Yeah, but it might require some mutations.
[16:14] <charlie-tca> It seemed like the numbing was pretty bad last time.
[16:15] <astraljava> Did you know that by every generation, there are about 60 mutations in the genepool?
[16:15] <charlie-tca> work is like a bad habit sometimes, gets in the way of everything :(
[16:15] <knome> astraljava, you are one of those?
[16:15]  * knome hides
[16:15] <astraljava> Indeed.
[16:15] <charlie-tca> I had no idea about the genepool.
[16:15] <knome> i think i'm the rest 59
[16:15] <astraljava> knome: I am the equivalent of the whole genepool's worth of.
[16:15] <knome> astraljava, :)
[16:16] <charlie-tca> the problem with the reboot failing is that you don't know if you have a computer affected until you reboot it.
[16:16] <knome> astraljava, ha! we watched QI @mums yesterday, she's started to record those!
[16:18] <astraljava> charlie-tca: That's just wonderful.
[16:18] <charlie-tca> That's why I thought I should tell people.
[16:18] <astraljava> Goddamned. I've completely forgotten all about QI. I need to get that channel package that shows that.
[16:18] <astraljava> charlie-tca: Thanks!
[16:18] <charlie-tca> Of course, I don't know how to tell when it gets fixed now, either.
[16:19] <astraljava> charlie-tca: Well, that's why we're rebooting after every test install, despite your warnings. :D
[16:19] <knome> astraljava, hehe. you know, the new series start this fall, and you can watch it on the bbc iplayer if you're in (a proxy in) britain.
[16:19] <astraljava> knome: Good to know, but I don't think I have anyone in UK who could setup such.
[16:20] <charlie-tca> Oh, test installs don't matter so much, but some of us do use Oneiric all the time now.
[16:20] <knome> astraljava, i don't think there is any free-to-use uk proxy lists on the web either.
[16:20] <charlie-tca> Well, back to the important things. I guess I better go do the minutes from the meeting
[16:21] <astraljava> charlie-tca: Yeah. I'm tempted. This vanilla 11.04 classic has pissed me off since the dawn of time, but since the on-going projects require me to keep the dev env alive, I cannot install another.
[16:21] <astraljava> knome: I'm pretty sure the feds have gotten rid off of those way back.
[16:21] <charlie-tca> True. I test, thus I run the latest development release. 
[16:21] <astraljava> charlie-tca: Have I missed a meeting?
[16:21] <charlie-tca> I know when it breaks, right away, too
[16:21] <astraljava> When was that?
[16:22] <charlie-tca> Sunday?
[16:22] <knome> astraljava, yeah, especially that proxy i used the last time ;)
[16:22] <astraljava> Oh, I think I was there.
[16:22] <astraljava> knome: Hah! :D
[16:22] <charlie-tca> astraljava: You were there.
[16:24] <astraljava> Yeah, thanks.
[16:40] <micahg> charlie-tca: CD size ACK, but we're still ok, we should be able to get a little bit back with some library transitions
[16:41] <micahg> actually, I take that back, I think we might be done w/transitions...idr anymore
[16:41] <micahg> openssl is done for the CDs anyways