[00:18] brousch: Have him search Monster for "Network Administration Brighton". All of the info is there from what I've been told. Thanks for passing it along. [11:42] Good morning [11:43] sucky morning [11:43] :) [11:44] Blergh. Have to take the trash out in this weather. [11:44] On the plus side, there is a bunny outside [11:46] crabby, stupid client morons [11:46] "how could we make this comlpetely worse and ask them to revert back to at least 3 things they originally had but we said we didn't like?" [11:46] rick_h_: I take it they're being quite creative. ;) [11:46] manning deal of the day: half off http://www.manning.com/ceder/ [11:47] brousch: It's not that good [11:47] snap-l: yea, they're trying very hard to piss me off. We had 6 "mockups" colored "make this crap" [11:47] so I did, not 4th set of a dozen or more changes since then [11:47] some backtracking on earlier items, every one of them making it more of an ass project than before [11:47] I picked it up. Unless you really don't know Python, it's not going to get you too far. [11:47] ok [11:48] I was more interestinged in oreilly's deal [11:48] i haven't gotten that far [11:48] but realized I want it on my web kindle reader and nothing I buy out of the kindle store can show up :( [11:48] brousch: Have you installed Python? [11:48] which is another @#$@#% point of the day [11:48] indeed i have [11:48] brousch: tons of better books [11:48] though i have not compiled it [11:48] That's part 1 [11:49] oh, and NC dude strikes again [11:49] with a freaking book in IM this morning yay [11:50] rick_h_: "Why testing is hard, so I've decided to go shopping instead", by NC dude. [11:51] "Designing code is hard so I'd rather just rewrite every app over and over vs put forth the effort to the fruitless task of making a decently flexible system" [11:51] or there abouts [11:52] Rewriting vs. Repeating Code - Why I Repeat Myself Repeatedly Repeating My Repeating Code Repeatedly" [11:52] only he took 358 words to get to it [11:52] rick_h_: Oh that's awesome. [11:52] according to wc :) [11:53] Maybe he could beat his computer into a typewriter and take up freelance? [11:53] rick_h_: I feel like I'm out of the loop, who is NC dude? [11:53] nullspace: you won't understand, you've missed half the effect by having the history [11:53] nullspace: NC dude is Rick's Lex Luthor programming co-worker [11:54] no, lex luthor is a genius [11:54] it's his solomon grundy [11:54] rick_h_: have you tried running an exploit against his box, get reverse shell and then rm -rf /usr ? [11:54] does he run linux? [11:54] where rick_h_ stands for consistency, repeatable results, testing, and optimization, NC dude stands for lazy development, repeating code, and 2 hour non-productive bug fixing sessions that could have been handled via build servers. [11:55] i thought NC guy was the windows user [11:55] he's sinced gone dual boot [11:56] repeating code? as in he copy pastes the same thing [11:56] Honestly, if I was doing Linux / Windows, I'd use a VM at this point [11:56] Dual Boot = wasted time being in the wrong system. [11:57] it is NC dude [11:57] rick_h_: Ah, now I understand. [11:58] "Yeah, I know that vim is awesome, but I don't have vim in Windows, so I'll have to boot into Linux when I get done with my Daily Show viewing in Windows" [12:00] Bah, Borders is now 40-60% off. [12:02] snap-l: what the company, a branch or are we talking books [12:03] nullspace: Welcome to 2011. :) [12:03] Borders Books is closing all of their stores. [12:03] so everything is being liquidated. They're now at 40-60% off of everything in the store [12:07] so amazon prices? [12:07] nullspace: Yes, but shipped directly to the store for easy pickup. [12:08] And if you can find a book / CD that's 40% off of retail on Amazon, please feel free. :) [12:08] mostly they're 33% [12:10] snap-l: http://goo.gl/M7Ntt [12:10] by my math, that's 45% off [12:11] And if you're not a prime member, you get to factor in shipping. ;) [12:11] and now I''m distracted by Bosch's l-boxx modular storage systems [12:11] super saver free shipping, for the patient [12:11] and no sales tax [12:12] Amazon Prime is a tax on the impatient. [12:12] Wolfger: Yes. :) [12:13] nullspace: stackable toolboxes aren't that distracting. :) [12:14] snap-l: I disagree [12:15] Just be done with it and get a rolling toolchest. ;) [12:17] http://www.craftsman.com/shc/s/p_10155_12602_00981337000P?vName=Storage+%26+Garage&cName=Tool+Storage&sName=Chests&prdNo=1&blockNo=1&blockType=L1 [12:18] Also, craftsman's site sucks [12:19] snap-l: most corporate sites suck, welcome to 2011 :) [12:24] touche [12:31] on the other hand, that's hardly new to 2011... [12:33] well it seems that it has become common place in 2011, either that or I'm just now seeing all the horror [12:34] I think you're just more sensitive to it, having not been aware of it most of 2011. ;) [12:34] Welcome to 2011. ;) [12:37] well I have been spending a lot of time working on the house and avoiding popular culture [12:48] zomg, you've been avoiding pop culture? How can you live without (uh, somebody help me out here, who's a current pop icon?) [12:48] Menudo [12:48] justin beeper? [12:48] rofl @snap-l [12:48] Shawn Cassidy [12:48] menudo is back? [12:48] awesome [12:48] brousch: Yeah, along with Dynamite Magazine [12:50] dyn-o-mite! [12:50] that's it... snap-l's new nick is Rerun. [12:50] :-D [12:51] Nah, I'm Roj [12:51] Wolfger: You can be Rerun, and nullspace can be Duane [12:52] now we need Shirley, Ma, and the kid sister. [12:53] http://pygame.org/docs/ref/examples.html#pygame.examples.midi.main [12:53] Mmm... maybe I can write my Glassblower application after all [12:54] (Glassblower being my interpretation of Philip Glass as done by computer) [12:55] snap-l: sorry... Rerun is the only name I could remember off the top of my head :-) [12:55] Wolfger: who is Duane? [12:55] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/What's_Happening!!#Principal_cast [12:55] Dwayne, sorry. [12:55] nullspace: Damned kid... get off our lawns. [12:56] Wolfger: you realize I have my lawn [12:56] my own lawn, sorry it's still kinda early [13:03] I don't think you had your own lawn last time I visited you, so no. :-p [13:04] pretty sure that's not how it works [13:05] ? [13:05] how does realization work then? [13:06] hmm maybe I didn't tell your [13:06] you [13:06] so you have your own lawn? Congrats! [13:06] Want mine too? I hate mowing it. [13:07] I should just go back to my javascript, I seem to be doing a lot better with that language than english currently [13:07] Wolfger: mine is > 1/3 of an acre [13:07] Then again, my dogs would not be happy if I didn't have it... [13:07] Wolfger: You could teach them how to use the potty. [13:07] not much if you ask me [13:09] snap-l: I have 3 that would be pretty easy to litter-box train, and one that could easily sit on a toilet... though I don't think I want either of those things. [13:10] I just pictured a great dane on the pot, ha [13:18] http://img.skitch.com/20080807-8t49gh9g9pi5iymnd49piiiuw1.jpg [13:19] Yeah. And unless I could teach her to flush... no thank you. [13:20] Wolfger: motion sensor! [13:20] nullspace: good point [13:29] Anyone here use Eclipse, by chance? [13:39] occasionally [13:40] brousch: Just curious because I can't get it to display my code properly. [13:40] #ubuntu kicked me out, basically, because I'm using the newest version lol [13:41] i've only used it for python [13:42] ah okay. I'm using java [13:42] Just seems like it's missing fonts. Just displays empty boxes instead of the actual characters. But only for parts of the code. Very strange. [13:42] And, according to Google, no one else has ever had this issue. [13:43] you have sun java installed, or the default opencrap java? [13:43] No, Sun Java. Not going to use OpenJDK for Android development :) [13:44] Duolos: I've used Eclipse, but only under Maverick, and under extreme duress. [13:45] Duolos: Are you perchance using Unicode in your code? [13:46] snap-l: I haven't even gotten to the point of typing any code. Just looking at the code that Eclipse generates when starting a new project. [13:46] And is it repeatedly showing the same blocks as hidden, or different blocks? [13:46] snap-l: It appears as though it's just the variables (color-coded blue). [13:47] values, rather [13:49] Would you take a screenshot of what you're seeing? [13:50] http://s891.photobucket.com/albums/ac115/nrossin81/?action=view¤t=snapshot1.png [13:51] ...and if you know of a better, easier place to post screenshots, PLEASE let me know lol [13:52] Heh. :) [13:52] Duolos: my Google says differently? Or is you problem unlike this: http://www.eclipse.org/forums/index.php/m/520247/ [13:52] I use Ubuntu One, but that has varying degrees of success. [13:52] Wolfger: On the surface that looks similar. [13:53] and of course, no answers. [13:53] Wolfger: Fairly similar. Except that tells about the entire interface being messed up. My interface is fine, it's just part of the code. [13:53] of course [13:53] <_stink_> sure does look like a font thing. [13:53] Duolos: You're not using Hebrew, are you? :) [13:54] Greek and Aramaic, actually [13:54] ;) [13:54] Duolos: how did you install eclipse? [13:54] http://www.eclipse.org/forums/index.php?t=msg&th=203659&start=0&S=46d79d739b260b4e24e4127a10392656 [13:54] brousch: That's the new version, just extracted. I'm currently downloading the older version from the repos to see if that does it too [13:54] Duolos: You might have downloaded a different language version by mistake? [13:55] so you downloaded it, extracted it to your homedir, and are running it from there? [13:55] Duolos: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/6629225/source-code-shows-as-rectangles-instead-of-charactars [13:55] That's the only thing I can think of that might cause that [13:55] brousch: correct [13:55] good. the one in the repos is worthless [13:55] rick_h_: have you see this guys show? http://www.djmarks.com/woodworks.asp [13:55] brousch: #ubuntu wouldn't even discuss Eclipse unless I was using Galileo lol [13:55] Wolfger: Good find. That might be the cause. [13:56] Duolos: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/6629225/source-code-shows-as-rectangles-instead-of-charactars/6953954#6953954 [13:56] Worst case, you'll get a lot of fonts you don't need. [13:56] Best case, it'll solve the problem. [13:56] nullspace: yea, seen them all [13:56] he's pretty famous in the woodworkers circles for sure [13:56] snap-l: ahhh... looks to be it [13:56] missing fonts makes sense. i mean, how thoroughly can eclipse be tested on a new kubuntu install? [13:56] wtf? Why is that including postfix? [13:57] Duolos: Be careful with those lines [13:57] I'd start with sudo apt-get install ttf-mscorefonts-installer [13:57] snap-l: Oh, I'll read them first lol [13:57] And probably install them one at a time. [13:58] Yeah, there's a bunch of crap in there that doesn't make any sense. [13:58] my Google-fu is mighty. :-) [13:58] Looks like he just installed ttf* [13:58] :) [13:58] Wolfger: I guess I used the wrong keywords lol thank you [13:59] took me a few tries, but I arrived after your clarification at: eclipse "missing fonts" in code [13:59] except... a lot of those are already installed [13:59] Grr... trial and error time. [13:59] without quotes on "missing fonts" I got too much noise [14:01] Thanks for the help. Gonna go grab breakfast and give it some more time when I get back. [15:31] woo hoo 1$ JJ sandwiches today!! [15:35] nullspace: everywhere? [15:41] <_stink_> brousch: i think so\ [15:41] <_stink_> maybe different times [15:41] <_stink_> on WSU's campus it's 11-3 [15:41] _stink_: same here [15:42] <_stink_> o/o/ [15:42] <_stink_> gonna head there in a bit, ofc [15:44] Just thought I'd report back on my Eclipse issue. Turns out I wasn't missing any fonts, but the default font didn't support italics :) All fixed. [15:44] Duolos: nice [15:44] Duolos: Ah, good to know. [15:45] You might want to post that back on the Stack Exchange thread for the next time that Wolfger does Google Fu [15:52] snap-l: haha good call [16:04] how do you get $1 JJ? [16:04] just walk in? [16:11] Duolos had italics in his source code? WTF? [16:30] rick_h_: http://www.bluemic.com/reactor/ MMmmmmmmm [16:30] jrwren: walking in the doors is the hard party what with the line [16:30] anyone use clonezilla who knows how to get more entries in the mount /home/partimag ? [16:31] it shows 4 that i don't want to use at all [16:31] doesn't show the USB drive i would like to use. :-/ [16:35] The_Machine: Does dmesg show the drive as being recognized? [16:35] actually, i just figured out that i don't think it is being recognized [16:35] as you suggest [16:36] :-/ [16:36] i hate this stupid old whitebox [16:36] thanks for your response [16:36] i'm just going to go shoot random people now. [16:36] I'd just recommend a trip to Microcenter and a party store. [16:36] but whatever works. [16:37] er, i meant hug. [16:40] snap-l reminds me of the movie robots I think [16:40] one day I'll save my pennies for one of those pr-40 mics I think [16:41] I like how it kills sound once you're outside the mic [16:45] Yeah, I love Blue mics. :) [16:46] How dows redis compare with mongodb? [16:46] n/m, key value only vs. document [16:47] IN other words, another great way to lose data. ;) [16:47] hah [16:48] redis == replace memcached [16:48] makes a great cache layer, session handler, queue backend, etc [16:49] * snap-l is going to write a k/v store called devnull [16:49] fastest around, with all the data integrity you've come to expect from NoSQL / Memcache [16:50] store whatever you want: documents, k/v pairs, your entire msuci collection [16:51] went to JJ for $1 sandwiches, the line was out the door, looked to be about a 30 minute wait [16:52] http://techcrunch.com/2011/08/18/google-maps-adds-a-weather-layer/ hah cool! [16:52] should have asked them to deliver :P [16:52] I want weather radar on my google map though :( [16:54] JJ for $1 sandwiches what?! [16:57] rick_h_: Can do the same with Weather Underground's Wundermap, which also shows the radar [16:57] right [17:05] Blazeix, where did you hear about JJs for $1? Can't find on website :) [17:07] The_Machine: I heard it from nullspace at 11:31:32 :) [17:07] hehe [17:07] alrighty [18:05] lmao http://brianhaveri.github.com/Underscore.php/ [18:12] wtf? [18:23] snap-l: what is with your long string of wtf's on Buzz? Man, you're killing the tattered remnants of my faith in humanity. [18:27] Wolfger: foolish of you to hold on to those remains [18:27] they are gone after seeing nullspace buzz about the torture/murder of a Maybach [18:28] Wolfger: I live to sweve [18:28] and serve [18:28] man, what a typo [18:29] If you really want to lose faith in humanity, don't fire up Miro all summer [18:29] God, my database didn't get deleted, and I have a shit-ton of stuff downloading [18:33] <_stink_> gah, sqlalchemy question and no rick_h [18:34] is that what became of ipodder? [18:41] <_stink_> rick_h_: i'm trying to find a way to take a sqlalchemy object that inherits Base, and get all columns names AND all relationship attributes that sqlalchemy knows about. i can get the columns with .__table__.c, but i can't find a way to have it tell me about relationships it knows about. any advice? [18:54] _stink_: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/sqlalchemy/_wOvkh6xKss [18:55] <_stink_> rick_h_: thanks much. [18:56] np [19:00] _stink_: what are you doing that you need to pull the list? [19:01] <_stink_> rick_h_: i was playing with a sort of /metadata rest resource... like "give me JSON with all the objects i'm allowed to see and their attributes", filtered in some appropriate way [19:01] <_stink_> if this strikes you as "you're doing it wrong", let me nkow [19:02] <_stink_> obviously while only having to define the objects in the normal way, map them the normal way, and only specify the stuff to block from view. [19:02] so then how are you getting all the realtion data? [19:02] and how far down to you nest through them? [19:03] so I'd rather build into base a to_json() method that could do some of what you're doing, but allow for a place to override where you need some custom/extras perhaps [19:03] but understand what you're saying, making it universal requires some internals like that [19:03] <_stink_> well, not getting the data at all yet, ergo my question :) but i only want one level, i think [19:03] <_stink_> yeah [19:04] <_stink_> i made a table to hold the stuff to block, e.g., for each object [19:04] ah, I'd just do a __no_json__ = [xxx, yyy[ [19:04] on each object [19:04] <_stink_> so there's an 'object_metadata' table that says whether a client can know about it at all, and if so, what columns to blcok [19:04] so you can see when looking at the code if the property is blocked vs looking into the db in some table [19:04] <_stink_> see, that's a good idea. [19:04] <_stink_> yeah [19:04] <_stink_> i like it [19:05] <_stink_> so then i would have to have a to_json() on each that held column names and relationship attr names [19:05] <_stink_> but i guess at least it's all in one plcae. [19:05] well you add to_json() to base and they all get it [19:06] could even create a JSONBase(Base) [19:06] and then your models that need to drop to json just User(JSONBase): __no_json__ == ['password'] [19:06] <_stink_> and each would also need to be told specifically about its relationships too, right? [19:07] <_stink_> becusae in to_json() in Base I'd still need for blah in self.c: [19:07] <_stink_> ? [19:07] <_stink_> for the columns [19:07] no, your code you're doing to that would be the way you're heading [19:07] <_stink_> i'm just trying to understand how the generic to_json can know about the attributes in each subclass. [19:08] because each of those subclasses inherits from Base [19:08] so it'll know the mapper/etc in that instance [19:08] https://github.com/mitechie/Bookie/blob/feature%2Fapi/bookie/models/__init__.py#L80 [19:08] that's the code I use to make all my models able to be cast to dict [19:08] User.get(13) [19:08] return dict(User) [19:09] and the json module can jsonify all dicts [19:09] but that doesn't work for relations [19:09] <_stink_> right, so you loop through self.__table__.columns. doesn't this leave out relationship attributes? [19:09] so I handle that manually: https://github.com/mitechie/Bookie/blob/feature%2Fapi/bookie/views/api.py#L66 [19:09] <_stink_> yewah, ok [19:09] <_stink_> i see, yeah [19:09] I base that on extra url params [19:09] so in bookie's case, if you want the readable content, you pass with_readable=true [19:10] and it'll append it to the root object's dict [19:10] <_stink_> sweet, i see [19:10] so yea, you're still in your boat for finding relations in an agnostic way [19:10] <_stink_> so i could just have __no_json__ to block columns, and __add_json__ to append relationship [19:10] sure [19:10] <_stink_> i'm not sure there's an obviously better way, so that's cool with me [19:11] just be aware that every one of those add_json is another query [19:11] so don't do that in a loop [19:11] that's why I use the with_content, it changes the query that pulls the records to do an eagerjoin on the extra realtion [19:12] https://github.com/mitechie/Bookie/blob/feature%2Fapi/bookie/models/__init__.py#L508 [19:13] <_stink_> not sure i understand. if i just want to be able to return a JSON list of attr names when this view is hit, would that cause extra queries? [19:14] hitting a relation for data causes another query to go out to go get it [19:14] User.get(13) only queries the user table [19:14] return User.addresses will then do another query to that user's addresses [19:14] if you have phone, address, email [19:14] that's three queries extra [19:14] and if you're returning 20 users, that's 60 extra queries [19:14] <_stink_> ok, i see. right [19:15] so I'd not get too "automatic" building of a big object without a manual query with some eager joins [19:15] <_stink_> i think this view avoids that, but i have to be careful about that once i start retrieving these en masse [19:15] right, start out with api calls for /user [19:15] but eventually you want /users/all [19:15] <_stink_> ok, bookmarked those to look at when i start grabbing this [19:15] <_stink_> sweet. [19:15] <_stink_> this is very helpful, thanks much [19:16] np [19:21] http://thenextweb.com/insider/2011/08/18/hp-announces-it-will-discontinue-touchpad-stop-webos-device-development/ [19:21] man, what a day [19:21] crushing blow after crushing blow [19:21] didn't they just reelease the touchpad? [19:22] a few months ago [19:22] and they are going to spin off the pc busines? [19:22] but best buy sold so few they wanted HP to take them back [19:22] wierd [19:23] any brave souls here know a bit of Java and mind having a look at a absurdly simple line to see why Eclipse says it's wrong? [19:23] wimmwishes they could do the same, but they have nothing else to sell [19:23] rimm [19:23] ColonelPanic001: pastebin [19:24] don't ask to ask! what's wrong with you, man? [19:24] I'M SORRY OMG [19:24] http://pastebin.com/bpRnYq3b [19:24] i'm reporting you to The Leader [19:24] this seems too simple to mess up [19:25] i don't think jave does the ' and " like python [19:25] i think you have to use " [19:25] s/python/every other language ever/ [19:25] heh [19:25] okay. lame. [19:26] I was hoping I wouldn't have to go through and escape all the " [19:26] and then escape the inner "s [19:26] thanks [19:26] while I'm asking - what's ' do, then? [19:26] single char [19:26] ah [19:26] thanks [19:26] char c = 'c';<-ok string s= 'c'; <<--compile err [19:49] rick_h_: what is ClarkstonUnion? [20:07] The union in Clarkston? It's a restaurant [20:09] rick_h_: I think HP wants to reconvene to see what WebOS will look like in the next few years [20:09] because tablet / mobile is pretty much a three-horse race [20:10] jrwren: it's a great little place to eat [20:10] best mac and cheese [20:10] right in downtown [20:14] qualifier: best mac and cheese if you like the crock-style baked mac and cheese. [20:15] yea, rich stuf [20:15] rich stuff [20:15] but mmmm so good [20:15] (had some folks recommend a pizza place as the best pizza in Chicago, but I didn't like that style of pizza) [20:15] what?! no likey the chicago style deep dish? [20:15] ok, closing this day out...I'm toast [20:16] heh [20:16] rick_h_: I like Jet's style deep dish [20:16] and even Buddy's / Shields [20:16] you sir...need new taste [20:16] but for whatever reason, this didn't do it for me [20:17] We need to get you over here for some Perry's when you can spare some calories [20:17] I won't claim they're the best, but they'll definitely make your top 10 [20:17] top 5 even