| Ian_Corne | well | 00:02 |
|---|---|---|
| Ian_Corne | first came tv ofcource | 00:02 |
| Ian_Corne | with the simpsons and friends and all other shows | 00:03 |
| Ian_Corne | everthing is subtitled here in Flanders (flemish part of belgium) | 00:03 |
| sebsebseb | hi | 00:05 |
| Ian_Corne | hey | 00:07 |
| sebsebseb | Ian_Corne: hey | 00:08 |
| DanaG | hmm, Oneiric upgrade is uninstallable, because it wants to remove ubuntu-desktop... but it won't tell me the actual dependency info. | 00:32 |
| DanaG | Where is that info logged? | 00:32 |
| jtaylor | probably just some archive inconsistency, wait a while | 00:33 |
| penguin42 | is that from a gui or command line? | 00:33 |
| DanaG | Both update-manager and do-release-upgrade return the same failure. | 00:35 |
| DanaG | I do have some amount of third-party repo stuff, but I moved sources.list.d away temporarily. | 00:36 |
| DanaG | It should just fire up aptitude to try to resolve, or something. =þ | 00:36 |
| === akgraner` is now known as akgraner | ||
| * penguin42 would try from the command line, it normally says more - or as jtaylor says, give it a while and try again | 00:36 | |
| penguin42 | DanaG: But if you've got 3rd party stuff in, I'd purge those first (using purge-ppa) | 00:37 |
| DanaG | Is there a log somewhere? | 00:37 |
| yofel | there is somewhere in /var/log/ | 00:38 |
| DanaG | Ah, now I remember what I had third-party.... mainly just va-api stuff, I think. | 00:38 |
| DanaG | I tried building mplayer-vaapi myself, and it kept giving me "unknown parameter: -va" | 00:38 |
| penguin42 | va? | 00:40 |
| DanaG | yeah, you have to do -vo vaapi -va vaapi | 00:41 |
| DanaG | or at least you did last time I tried. | 00:41 |
| penguin42 | what is 'va' | 00:41 |
| DanaG | Beats me, but it was always required. vo alone didn't do it. | 00:41 |
| penguin42 | shrug | 00:41 |
| DanaG | For mplayer-vaapi. | 00:41 |
| DanaG | Anyway, I found /var/log/dist-upgrade/ | 00:42 |
| DanaG | http://paste.ubuntu.com/671381/ | 00:51 |
| DanaG | There's the apt.log. | 00:51 |
| DanaG | at-spi and gnome-orca. Removing them now. | 00:52 |
| penguin42 | anyway, bed | 00:57 |
| DanaG | https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/at-spi/+bug/790240 | 01:01 |
| ubottu | Ubuntu bug 790240 in java-access-bridge (Ubuntu Oneiric) "at-spi needs demotion for oneiric (at-spi2-core in main)" [Medium,Triaged] | 01:01 |
| DanaG | ah, no need to file a bug.. it's already there. | 01:01 |
| Ian_Corne | DanaG: I think all 3rd party repos get disabled automaticly when you do-release-upgrade, doesn't help with the purge tho | 01:10 |
| DanaG | Actually, I think my issue was that one. | 01:10 |
| DanaG | My gripe with the disabling third-party: | 01:10 |
| DanaG | It not only disables PPAs; it also switches from blazing-fast mirrors.kernel.org to slow archive.ubuntu.com. | 01:11 |
| Ian_Corne | :D | 01:11 |
| DanaG | Really, I'd say it should disable third-party only if the third-party doesn't have Ubuntu's official signature. | 01:15 |
| bjsnider | DanaG, the -va option means "video acceleration" | 01:39 |
| bjsnider | haven't seen you in here in a log time | 01:39 |
| DanaG | Yeah, I've been working at a company that's primarily Windows-based, and have been playing games when on the weekend. | 01:40 |
| DanaG | But I decided that I might as well try +1 on my laptop... and leave my server on Natty. | 01:40 |
| bjsnider | you escaped cal poly san luis obispo? | 01:40 |
| === wgrant_ is now known as wgrant | ||
| DanaG | hmm, issues with libc-bin... | 03:26 |
| DanaG | Woah, boatloads of dependency issues. | 03:30 |
| DanaG | Things like libgl1-mesa-glx. | 03:30 |
| DanaG | libc-bin conflicts with libc-bin | 03:31 |
| DanaG | Hmm, only aptitude is showing all that, when I try to dist-upgrade. | 03:33 |
| DanaG | It wants to remove darn near everything. | 03:33 |
| DanaG | How can a package conflict with itself? | 03:35 |
| DanaG | apt-get, on the other hand, is giving sane results. | 03:36 |
| DanaG | './usr/share/doc/libglib2.0-0/changelog.Debian.gz' is different from the same file on the system | 03:45 |
| DanaG | ah, probably getlibs. | 03:46 |
| DanaG | rm'ing the file fixed it. | 03:54 |
| micahg | DanaG: aptitude doesn't seem to work with multiarch fully | 03:59 |
| DanaG | ah. | 04:00 |
| DanaG | hmm, would it be possible to, as a workaround, ignore non-native packages? | 04:00 |
| micahg | idk | 04:00 |
| DanaG | I'd imagine that'd be easier to do than making it fully support multiarch. | 04:02 |
| DanaG | s/making/to make/ | 04:02 |
| DanaG | Argh, stupid X... makes my text tiny by ignoring my screen's real size. | 05:33 |
| DanaG | It's a feature! Now I have a 20-inch laptop! | 05:33 |
| DanaG | Oh, and my panel is entirely missing. | 05:33 |
| DanaG | Ouch, that tiny text is already giving me a headache. | 05:34 |
| DanaG | Okay, so once I set it to 1.5 scaling (thanks to Xorg lying), the size 11 default is huge. | 05:38 |
| DanaG | https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=23705 | 05:40 |
| ubottu | Freedesktop bug 23705 in Server/general "xserver forces 96 DPI on randr-1.2-capable drivers, overriding correct autodetection" [Normal,Reopened] | 05:40 |
| bullgard4_ | [GNOME 3] Why is there a file /usr/share/applications/synaptic-kde.desktop although I never asked for KDE when I set up my Oneiric? | 05:45 |
| rww | the synaptic package contains .desktop files for GNOME and KDE, I'd assume. | 05:46 |
| rww | Probably because one uses gksudo and the other kdesudo | 05:46 |
| bullgard4_ | Ah! Thank you. | 05:48 |
| jbicha | bullgard4_: it looks like the second to the last line in synaptic-kde.desktop is the answer also but I don't know what it means | 05:48 |
| bullgard4_ | jbicha: The last line of my file synaptic-kde.desktop reads: "OnlyShowIn=KDE;". Do you refer tho this line of text? | 05:53 |
| bullgard4_ | -h | 05:53 |
| jbicha | the line above that | 05:53 |
| bullgard4_ | jbicha: The last but one line of my file synaptic-kde.desktop reads: "X-KDE-SubstituteUID=true". I do not know the function of the X-KDE-SubstituteUID flag. | 05:56 |
| jbicha | neither do I, but you can Google for it if you like | 05:57 |
| === htorque_ is now known as htorque | ||
| bullgard4_ | I found an explanation here (although not explicitely for Ubuntu): https://features.opensuse.org/307769: "All YaST .destop files in /usr/share/applications/YaST2 use the "X-KDE-SubstituteUID" to make them running as root. X-KDE-SubstituteUID is a KDE only "workaround" for that only KDE is supposed to be able to understand. Really, also GNOME as very famous DE understand that." | 06:05 |
| vyshay | how can i get flashplayer working? http://pastebin.com/HT7cQ4xj | 06:23 |
| IdleOne | !flash64 | 06:28 |
| ubottu | You can run Flash, Real, and Java plugins in AMD64 bit computers with Firefox. see the steps to follow at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/FirefoxAMD64FlashJava | 06:28 |
| vyshay | that page is really old | 06:29 |
| micahg | vyshay: how long have you been running oneiric? | 06:30 |
| vyshay | 2 weeks. kubuntu | 06:30 |
| IdleOne | so what if it is old, it works (for me) running kubuntu | 06:31 |
| micahg | hmm, can you take a look at this: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2011-August/000886.html | 06:31 |
| vyshay | trying it out... | 06:32 |
| vyshay | i think that's working! thanks | 06:35 |
| micahg | vyshay: you're welcome | 06:35 |
| nperry | anyone else getting all the udev warnings on boot? | 08:14 |
| rww | yes | 08:14 |
| nperry | I'll assume there is already a bug report for it then? | 08:18 |
| nperry | As I can't remember the exact error to report it | 08:19 |
| nperry | and can't seem to find logs | 08:19 |
| rww | no idea, sorry :( | 08:19 |
| nperry | bug 829561 | 08:20 |
| ubottu | Launchpad bug 829561 in udev (Ubuntu) "udev fails to execute /lib/udev/input_id because of missing files/directories." [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/829561 | 08:20 |
| nperry | I think! | 08:20 |
| raju | hello i am using xubuntu 11.10 i am not getting sound in my system .previously it was played good . to attempt a call i have muted that and again disabled the mute . but from that instant i am not getting sound. i have tried by restarting my system also | 08:46 |
| raju | please help on this | 08:46 |
| raju | .... | 08:52 |
| Machtin | safe-upgrade wants to remove gstreamer0.10-camerabin{u}, is this replaced by something? | 10:25 |
| Ian_Corne | yes | 10:29 |
| Machtin | good :) | 10:55 |
| Peddy | jbicha, just dropping by to let you know I 'fixed' my oneric bug of the day - bug 744812. It made qt programs like clementine and smplayer ugly with the default font. | 11:16 |
| ubottu | Launchpad bug 744812 in ubuntu-font-family-sources (Ubuntu Oneiric) "FontConfig/Qt stack choke on Ubuntu Medium font meta-data (No medium in Inkscape and too bold in Qt apps)" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/744812 | 11:16 |
| BluesKaj | Hey folks | 12:41 |
| penguin42 | hey | 12:42 |
| BluesKaj | I have a stack, double fault running after booting into my other pc ...can someone explain this to me ? | 13:00 |
| BluesKaj | looks like it's checking or writing to the disk , but i've never seen this before so .... | 13:02 |
| ikonia | whats happening ? | 13:02 |
| BluesKaj | Double fault 0000 (#incremental numbers scrolling by) SMP | 13:05 |
| ikonia | has something changed to cause this or did you always get it | 13:06 |
| penguin42 | that's the fall out of whatever was the first message which will have long gone off the top | 13:06 |
| penguin42 | hmph - this nspluginwrapper foul up is a pain | 13:06 |
| BluesKaj | never seen this before | 13:07 |
| BluesKaj | ikonia, my screen froze , lost use of KB and mouse , so I had to do a hard power down | 13:09 |
| ikonia | BluesKaj: so just randomly popped up | 13:09 |
| BluesKaj | upon reboot after grub | 13:09 |
| BluesKaj | that's when this happened | 13:09 |
| ari-tczew | if I have installed nvidia-current 280.13, how can I force it to got it enabled? Jockey shows - installed, not used | 13:10 |
| penguin42 | hmph, annoying - downgrading nspluginwrapper doesn't help | 13:11 |
| BluesKaj | penguin42, check this out, it works on my pc, https://launchpad.net/~sevenmachines/+archive/flash/+packages | 13:15 |
| penguin42 | BluesKaj: Yeh but why doesn't downgrading both nspluginwrapper and flashplugin-installer work? | 13:16 |
| BluesKaj | penguin42, just remove nspluginwrapper | 13:16 |
| penguin42 | yeh but I don't understand what just changed | 13:18 |
| BluesKaj | a more mature flashplugin , it runs without the plugin wrapper , maybe ? | 13:19 |
| penguin42 | BluesKaj: no, that ppa is just the 64bit beta - not the same thing | 13:23 |
| BluesKaj | well penguin42 ,sorry , guess i misunderstood | 13:24 |
| zniavre | good afternoon | 13:41 |
| zniavre | im using OO with gnome-panel session | 13:41 |
| zniavre | but there is bluetooth and network-applet icons missing | 13:42 |
| zniavre | like everybody using gnome-panel session? | 13:42 |
| auk | hello, is it just me or is flash currently broken in the repos? | 16:52 |
| penguin42 | auk: Yes it is | 16:52 |
| BluesKaj | auk, there's afix on sevenmachines/launchpad | 16:53 |
| Ian_Corne | not really a fix | 16:53 |
| Ian_Corne | it's just the 64 bit version | 16:53 |
| BluesKaj | well it works | 16:53 |
| Ian_Corne | yeah | 16:53 |
| Ian_Corne | workaround | 16:53 |
| Ian_Corne | but it's better then using 32bit flash on 64 bit systems | 16:53 |
| BluesKaj | no nspluginwrapper needed | 16:53 |
| penguin42 | Be careful about recommending the 64bit version - it's not obvious when it's security maintained | 16:55 |
| penguin42 | and it's a beta that can disappear (it has done before) | 16:55 |
| === eric_ is now known as MathsPoetry | ||
| auk | ok many thanks i'm going to go ahead and install from sevenmachines | 16:56 |
| auk | is this a recent development with the flash package or is it long-standing? | 16:57 |
| penguin42 | auk: Last week | 16:57 |
| BluesKaj | well.I didn't realize that the wrapper ws being used at first but most system nowadays are 64bit | 16:57 |
| penguin42 | BluesKaj: It's because Adobe won't release the 64bit officially rather than as a Beta | 16:58 |
| BluesKaj | penguin42, because it's a bit buggy or is it politics ? | 16:59 |
| penguin42 | BluesKaj: Poltiics I think - at one point they pulled it completely; and the problem is you really need to keep up to date with Flash versions for security | 16:59 |
| bjsnider | this situation appears to have changed | 17:00 |
| penguin42 | bjsnider: Where? | 17:00 |
| bjsnider | the alst 2 flash 11 releases have had both arches | 17:00 |
| penguin42 | Adobe still list it as Beta on their site | 17:01 |
| bjsnider | flash 11 is at beta | 17:01 |
| bjsnider | so that is a misleading statement | 17:02 |
| bjsnider | i386 is also beta at the moment | 17:02 |
| penguin42 | bjsnider: http://get.adobe.com/flashplayer/?no_redirect shows 64bit as a 'preview release' | 17:02 |
| penguin42 | (for 10.x) | 17:02 |
| bjsnider | http://labs.adobe.com/downloads/flashplayer11.html | 17:03 |
| bjsnider | they are offering both amd64 and i386 side by side | 17:04 |
| penguin42 | bjsnider: Right, so the interesting question is whether the 64bit will survive when it finally gets released | 17:04 |
| bjsnider | it looks like it will | 17:04 |
| penguin42 | bjsnider: The flashplugin-installer packages only install release stuff not beta; and it'll be great if it does survive | 17:05 |
| bjsnider | well, the official stuff does that, but there are custom ppa versions, like mine and sevenmachines | 17:06 |
| bjsnider | and with oneiric multiarch should mean that everybody can use the i386 version if they want | 17:07 |
| fasta | How can I see the difference between a crashed Ubuntu and one which just takes eons of time to load? | 17:19 |
| fasta | Or: why is there no real progress bar or some escape hatch to show me what it is doing? | 17:20 |
| fasta | Also, it doesn't boot. | 17:21 |
| bjsnider | fasta, if you hit escape when the boot screen is appearing you can see what it's doing | 17:26 |
| fasta | bjsnider: OK, I see that, but I see all kinds of udev problems. | 17:27 |
| fasta | bjsnider: what happened to gnome-2.X in this version of Ubuntu? | 17:28 |
| fasta | bjsnider: i.e. Ubuntu Classic. | 17:28 |
| Ian_Corne | it is no longer supported | 17:29 |
| bjsnider | it isn't needed anymore | 17:29 |
| fasta | Why not? | 17:29 |
| fasta | Your 'new' interface is pretty broken and lacks any kind of polish compared to 2.X. | 17:30 |
| bjsnider | there's a 2d unity and a gnome-shell fallback | 17:30 |
| fasta | bjsnider: how does gnome-shell compare to gnome 2.x? | 17:30 |
| bjsnider | fasta, that's too general a question | 17:31 |
| bjsnider | you can try it for yourself if you want | 17:31 |
| fasta | bjsnider: is gnome-shell newer? | 17:32 |
| Ian_Corne | yes | 17:32 |
| Ian_Corne | it's gnome3's default shell | 17:32 |
| bjsnider | gnome-shell is gnome-2's replacement | 17:32 |
| Ian_Corne | well, gnome-shell is gnome-panel's replacement, no? :p | 17:32 |
| Ian_Corne | gnome2 and 3 are just collections of packages, right? | 17:33 |
| fasta | Ok, and what about the ton of issues I have with simply booting my machine? | 17:33 |
| bjsnider | that's right | 17:33 |
| fasta | It takes about 5 minutes and human intervention to get to a desktop. | 17:33 |
| Ian_Corne | you're gonna have to be more cspecific fasta | 17:33 |
| fasta | Ian_Corne: where is the boot process logged? | 17:33 |
| bjsnider | i guess the easiest response is "it's alpha software, expect problems" | 17:33 |
| fasta | bjsnider: 11.04 also has problems. | 17:34 |
| fasta | bjsnider: 9.10 also had problems. | 17:34 |
| bjsnider | maybe on your system | 17:34 |
| fasta | bjsnider: on multiple systems. | 17:34 |
| bjsnider | not all hardware is as friendly to linux as we'd like | 17:34 |
| fasta | bjsnider: it has nothing to do with hardware. | 17:34 |
| fasta | bjsnider: these all were Ubuntu specific problems. | 17:35 |
| Ian_Corne | i've got a feeling you're just venting your rage | 17:35 |
| bjsnider | did they fix all the bugs you submitted? | 17:35 |
| Ian_Corne | use another distro then. | 17:35 |
| fasta | bjsnider: no | 17:35 |
| fasta | Ian_Corne: no, you should just say 'oh, do cat <blah/bootlog> | 17:35 |
| fasta | Ian_Corne: then I could give a dump of all the issues and then I assume someone would actually fix it. | 17:35 |
| fasta | Unless you want Ubuntu to keep sucking forever. | 17:36 |
| bjsnider | what did they do about the bugs you submitted? | 17:36 |
| fasta | bjsnider: they basically asked whether I could check it with a newer version... | 17:36 |
| fasta | bjsnider: because they never read the bugs in the first place. Way to go. | 17:37 |
| fasta | 1) Create a buggy system 2) Wait for users to get pissed 3) No users | 17:37 |
| Ian_Corne | dmesg is a good start to look at boot stuff, xorg log | 17:37 |
| fasta | Ian_Corne: what is wrong with that answer? | 17:37 |
| bjsnider | ubuntu has a lot more users than any other distro | 17:38 |
| Ian_Corne | well, if you would be a little friendlier, maybe i would have helped you with more joy | 17:38 |
| fasta | Ian_Corne: the answer is wrong, because there should simply be one command which will dump everything relevant to a file suitable for debugging. | 17:38 |
| fasta | Ian_Corne: this requires multiple user interactions, which is a sure sign of bad system design. | 17:39 |
| Ian_Corne | ugh | 17:39 |
| fasta | Every program should provide a reason for failing. | 17:39 |
| Ian_Corne | i'm out | 17:39 |
| fasta | A good reason. | 17:39 |
| Ian_Corne | And people shouldn't make war | 17:39 |
| fasta | Not some lame excuse because some lame programmer was too lazy writing the program right the first time. | 17:39 |
| penguin42 | fasta: Writing big programs is hard! Yes some of the bugs in Ubuntu are silly, but hey all the programmers are human | 17:40 |
| fasta | penguin42: writing big programs is easy. | 17:40 |
| fasta | penguin42: I know, because I did. | 17:40 |
| bjsnider | what program? | 17:40 |
| fasta | bjsnider: nothing which is open-source. | 17:40 |
| fasta | bjsnider: well, I did write some patches. | 17:40 |
| bjsnider | photoshop? | 17:40 |
| Ian_Corne | :p | 17:41 |
| fasta | bjsnider: no, not photoshop. | 17:41 |
| bjsnider | microsoft turd? | 17:41 |
| IAmNotThatGuy | bjsnider, :P | 17:41 |
| fasta | bjsnider: .... | 17:41 |
| bjsnider | windows internet exploder? | 17:41 |
| fasta | I think it is just epic failure if in 2011 you are not able to boot an extremely standard Intel processor successfully. | 17:42 |
| bjsnider | yeah but this is alpha software | 17:42 |
| fasta | All the involved standards are years old. | 17:42 |
| Ian_Corne | and it's not just the processor.. | 17:42 |
| fasta | All the hardware is fine. | 17:43 |
| fasta | It is the higher level stuff which messes up things. | 17:43 |
| penguin42 | fasta: The problem is that the testing tends to be done on a relatively small set of hardware, especially not older stuff | 17:43 |
| fasta | The drivers are pretty good too. | 17:43 |
| fasta | (They still suck, but they are not the main problem). | 17:43 |
| fasta | It are the programmers that do the 'glueing together of stuff' that are the problem. | 17:43 |
| bjsnider | the drivers are pretty good but they suck | 17:43 |
| fasta | bjsnider: I have high standards. | 17:44 |
| Ian_Corne | and a bad attitude | 17:44 |
| fasta | (which incidentally is the problem with Ubuntu( | 17:44 |
| fasta | ) | 17:44 |
| bjsnider | i say get in the trenches and fix the problems yourself. you clearly have the ability | 17:44 |
| Ian_Corne | http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/ go, implement your own high standards | 17:44 |
| penguin42 | fasta: Please don't come here and just moan about things! | 17:44 |
| BluesKaj | fast doyou have any positive ideas to help the situation or....? | 17:44 |
| penguin42 | fasta: Feel free to fix things though so that they do meet your standards | 17:45 |
| fasta | bjsnider: the reason likely is that there is no incentive for me to fix all the broken systems introduced by others. | 17:45 |
| bjsnider | well, getting your system working to your own satisfaction is reason enough, no? | 17:45 |
| kyubutsu | no | 17:46 |
| BluesKaj | fasta, so you say others should have the incentive . but not you ? | 17:46 |
| fasta | BluesKaj: there is a company behind it, no? | 17:46 |
| kyubutsu | fastaOS will top the charts when it comes out in 2055 | 17:46 |
| penguin42 | fasta: I agree it is depressing when lots of things are broken - I don't know a good way to stop it happening though; the problem is that there is a lot of requirement for drivers for new hardware and new features (that IMHO aren't great) but that doesn't necessarily let stuff stabilise | 17:46 |
| bjsnider | i would use fastaos | 17:47 |
| Tetsuo55 | its fairly easy to prevent it | 17:47 |
| fasta | Writing an OS takes about a month or so. | 17:47 |
| * BluesKaj throws fasta a crying towel | 17:47 | |
| bjsnider | what would it cost me to run it? | 17:47 |
| Tetsuo55 | you just need a good and compelete toolcycle | 17:47 |
| kyubutsu | there, i gave you plenty of time for perfection, fasta | 17:47 |
| Tetsuo55 | all patches need to go through a codereview, like gerrit, then a buildbot tries to compile it, and when that works it runs unit tests | 17:48 |
| bjsnider | took microsoft 6 years to write vista | 17:48 |
| fasta | kyubutsu: by that time you are already replaced by a machine anyway. | 17:48 |
| bjsnider | 6 years and $4 billion | 17:48 |
| fasta | bjsnider: because they do backwards compatibility. | 17:48 |
| Tetsuo55 | the only hard part is getting a builbot for all the more common hardware configurations | 17:48 |
| fasta | bjsnider: and because they put all kinds of pointless stuff into their OS. | 17:49 |
| Tetsuo55 | but i guess you could talk to the bigger manufacturers about that | 17:49 |
| Tetsuo55 | and we need more people calling up the hardware manufacters to demand proper open source data and drivers | 17:49 |
| Tetsuo55 | (even on other os's like windows) | 17:50 |
| fasta | I don't care about open source. We need protocols that are defined. | 17:50 |
| kyubutsu | :( | 17:50 |
| fasta | The protocols are about specifications. A pile of code means nothing by itself. | 17:51 |
| Tetsuo55 | when you make defined protocols for hardware and drivers, your already 90% open source | 17:51 |
| Tetsuo55 | the protocols and specs are mostly closed source right now | 17:51 |
| bjsnider | so you don't care if the process of defining the protocols is open or if an organization like apple just comes out and says 'this is the way it is' | 17:51 |
| Tetsuo55 | and all the drivers already supposedly follow linux kernel specs perfectly | 17:51 |
| fasta | bjsnider: you are just a troll. | 17:52 |
| kyubutsu | :o | 17:52 |
| bjsnider | i are? | 17:52 |
| kyubutsu | whoa.. thought this was -offtopic for a second | 17:53 |
| kyubutsu | :o | 17:53 |
| fasta | bjsnider: yes, because I never said that. | 17:53 |
| Tetsuo55 | if you guys are serious about this stuff | 17:53 |
| Tetsuo55 | http://keithcu.com/wordpress/ | 17:53 |
| Tetsuo55 | http://keithcu.com/wordpress/?page_id=407 | 17:53 |
| bjsnider | you said you didn't care about open source | 17:53 |
| Tetsuo55 | thats a book and blog by an ex-microsoft employee that focusss on the big problems like kernel instability | 17:54 |
| kyubutsu | guys, ubuntu-offtopic is over there ---> | 17:54 |
| Tetsuo55 | hes also contacted linus several times | 17:54 |
| Tetsuo55 | he also targets ubuntu directly, saying that more should be invested in bug-fixing devs | 17:55 |
| * penguin42 has some sympathy with that - I wouldn't mind a primarily bug fix release | 17:55 | |
| * BluesKaj thinks there's , about trollstransference going on here | 17:55 | |
| bjsnider | canonical doesn't have unlimited resources | 17:55 |
| penguin42 | say one in every 5 releases; no new features (except keeping up with current hardware), just fixes | 17:56 |
| BluesKaj | kyubutsu, nope it's over here on my client <----- :) | 17:57 |
| fasta | AFAIK, hardware didn't change in the past 30 years in any significant way. | 17:57 |
| kyubutsu | then go debian, and come to ubuntu+1 for giggles and fun, penguin42 | 17:57 |
| kyubutsu | :-P | 17:57 |
| fasta | It is just a leadership problem. | 17:58 |
| penguin42 | fasta: That's not true - it's much more complex to get a PC to do everything these days unless you want to only run text mode | 17:58 |
| penguin42 | fasta: Just to interact with a USB keyboard is 10s of times harder than an old PS/2 one as a simple example | 17:58 |
| fasta | penguin42: and why is it so hard? | 17:58 |
| penguin42 | kyubutsu: Well except Debian doesn't either! | 17:58 |
| fasta | penguin42: not because it is inherently hard. | 17:58 |
| penguin42 | fasta: No, it's because there are more layers of protocol in the hardware/firmware - and the OS has to deal with them | 17:59 |
| penguin42 | fasta: But people expect more these days; they expect suspend/resume, they expect hot plug USB devices, error recovery on SATA, etc | 17:59 |
| penguin42 | fasta: They expect that when they plug in their printer that the right driver gets loaded - not that everything is just an FX-80 like it was 30 years ago! | 17:59 |
| kyubutsu | 19 million lines of kernel code cant be wrong! | 17:59 |
| kyubutsu | >:( | 18:00 |
| penguin42 | kyubutsu: Well.... | 18:00 |
| BluesKaj | one would think the ppl here are getting paid to fix things , from your attiude fasta , take it to canonical and be done with it | 18:00 |
| fasta | kyubutsu: yes, they can. | 18:01 |
| penguin42 | fasta: They expect power saving features, they expect it to run well on multi core processors, on machines with 512MB RAM (e.g. a netbook/tablet) and machines with 128GB RAM, work off an SD card and a vast fibre channel storage array - doing all that is hard! | 18:01 |
| penguin42 | fasta: Now personally those things are more important to me than pretty GUI but hey | 18:02 |
| fasta | penguin42: well, I disagree that doing that is hard. | 18:02 |
| penguin42 | fasta: Hah - then we agree to disagree! | 18:02 |
| fasta | penguin42: all of that might be 'work', but it is not a hard scientific problem. | 18:02 |
| BluesKaj | penguin42, I think you've just been trolled :) | 18:02 |
| kyubutsu | penguin42: you forgot to mention wifi connectivity | 18:02 |
| kyubutsu | :( | 18:03 |
| penguin42 | kyubutsu: Oh yeh that's about a billion lines of code... | 18:03 |
| * penguin42 prefers ether - you know where your packets are going with ether | 18:03 | |
| fasta | The only hard part is artificial barriers like not telling what the hardware does in the first place. | 18:03 |
| BluesKaj | this is going nowhere ...bbl | 18:03 |
| fasta | Perhaps also broken hardware, which doesn't meet the spec, but those items should simply not work. | 18:03 |
| fasta | They should be returned to the store. | 18:04 |
| fasta | E.g. all realtek chips should never ever have existed in the first place. | 18:04 |
| fasta | Linux uses tons of code to work around all kinds of problems, but then there are still cases in which it might not work. | 18:04 |
| BluesKaj | where's the OT cops ? ! | 18:04 |
| fasta | I will stop. | 18:05 |
| bjsnider | you don't work for realtek in the publicity dept. i guess | 18:08 |
| fasta | So, I have failed to execute '/lib/udev/input_id' input_id /devices/<lots of stuff>'. | 18:08 |
| fasta | Just tell me why that should possibly happen. | 18:09 |
| BluesKaj | my realtek chip works ok, except there's nosimultaneous analog and digital audio output | 18:09 |
| fasta | I also get mtrr: type mismatch for e0000000, 100000000 old: write-back new: write-combining. | 18:09 |
| BluesKaj | but I can't expect mush from an entry level integrated soundard | 18:10 |
| penguin42 | fasta: I think the mtrr stuff is normally BIOS bugs that the kernel fixes | 18:10 |
| BluesKaj | mush heh =much | 18:10 |
| fasta | penguin42: ah, so you are saying that before it did work and with an Ubuntu change it doesn't work anymore that it really is the BIOS fault? | 18:10 |
| fasta | penguin42: generally Linux doesn't work that way; it tries to work arounds things. | 18:11 |
| penguin42 | fasta: Possibly; that mtrr message is just a warning though; I don't think it should be a killer | 18:11 |
| fasta | penguin42: it is not a killer, since if I wait a few minutes I can boot just fine. | 18:11 |
| fasta | penguin42: however, gdm does not start automatically. | 18:11 |
| fasta | penguin42: so, I have to do that manually and if I do that, I can get a KDE session. | 18:12 |
| Ian_Corne | fasta: install lightdm | 18:12 |
| penguin42 | fasta: I doubt the mtrr stuff is causing that (bad MTRR settings can cause stuff to run **very** slowly - i.e. cache off - but I doubt thats the cause here) | 18:12 |
| Ian_Corne | it's the new greeter for 11.10 | 18:12 |
| fasta | But the fact that I need to do all of this, is pretty insane. | 18:12 |
| penguin42 | fasta: Yeh you shouldn't have to - it's a bug if you're having to; but hey +1 is still in Alpha | 18:12 |
| Ian_Corne | for an alpha release? | 18:12 |
| Ian_Corne | No it's not insane. | 18:12 |
| fasta | Ian_Corne: what would that help? | 18:13 |
| Ian_Corne | isntalling lightdm? | 18:13 |
| fasta | Ian_Corne: yes | 18:13 |
| penguin42 | fasta: I'd say the udev stuff sounds more of an issue - I've seen some stuff happen with broken udev config files (e.g. added for special devices like scanners or mobile phones) that were broken config files | 18:13 |
| fasta | Ian_Corne: I already did, though. | 18:13 |
| Ian_Corne | enable it as the default greeter | 18:13 |
| Ian_Corne | and check if it works now | 18:14 |
| * penguin42 gets dinner | 18:14 | |
| fasta | penguin42: ok, I did that now. | 18:14 |
| fasta | Ian_Corne: ok, I did that now. | 18:14 |
| Ian_Corne | what's in your /etc/udev/rules.d? | 18:14 |
| Ian_Corne | there shouldn't be to much in there | 18:14 |
| fasta | The udev stuff is also pretty impossible to debug. | 18:14 |
| Ian_Corne | well check that direcotry | 18:14 |
| Ian_Corne | directory | 18:14 |
| fasta | It should say 'file /hadasdasdasd/dasdas/dadasdas/d.sh' had a non-zero exit status. | 18:15 |
| Ian_Corne | as penguin42 stated you could be using broken config files | 18:15 |
| Ian_Corne | but it doesn't so no sense in complaining here about it | 18:15 |
| Ian_Corne | write a bugreport, send a msg to the udev maintainer mailing list | 18:15 |
| Ian_Corne | ubuntu-bug udev | 18:15 |
| Ian_Corne | is the command | 18:16 |
| fasta | Ian_Corne: likely it is just a matter of deleting some files for my system. | 18:16 |
| fasta | (all of these problems could have been stopped at compile time, btw) | 18:16 |
| fasta | Er prevented* | 18:17 |
| Ian_Corne | compiletime? | 18:17 |
| Ian_Corne | installation time | 18:17 |
| fasta | Ian_Corne: no, at compile time. | 18:17 |
| fasta | Anyway, that's again another discussion. | 18:18 |
| fasta | Can I force it to continue somewhat faster? | 18:18 |
| Ian_Corne | so they should check, when they do the build of the package, if there are any wrong files on YOUR system? | 18:18 |
| fasta | It seems there is some time out going on. | 18:18 |
| bjsnider | fasta, do you know there are actual channels where you can talk to the devs about these concerns? | 18:18 |
| bjsnider | such as #ubuntu-devel, and #ubuntu-motu | 18:18 |
| Ian_Corne | fasta: i asked you to list the contents of /etc/udev/rules.d | 18:18 |
| Ian_Corne | but you still didn't respond | 18:19 |
| fasta | Ian_Corne: you also asked me to reboot my computer. | 18:19 |
| Ian_Corne | when? | 18:19 |
| fasta | Ian_Corne: and it so happens that it still didn't gave me the new window. | 18:19 |
| fasta | Ian_Corne: saying whether I want to 'resume' booting. | 18:19 |
| Ian_Corne | window? | 18:19 |
| Ian_Corne | ah | 18:19 |
| fasta | Ian_Corne: so, this is a boot with that other dm installed. | 18:20 |
| fasta | Ian_Corne: now I have the resume dialog. | 18:20 |
| Ian_Corne | ok | 18:21 |
| fasta | Ian_Corne: there are just 70-perseistent-cd.rules and 70-persistent-net.rules and README | 18:21 |
| fasta | Ian_Corne: modulo that typo. | 18:21 |
| Ian_Corne | ok, so nothing fishy there | 18:21 |
| Ian_Corne | well, my next step would be to do "ubuntu-bug udev" | 18:22 |
| Ian_Corne | it will collect the logs files and create a bug report on launchpad | 18:22 |
| Ian_Corne | more knowledgeable people will help you there | 18:22 |
| fasta | I think I am just going to recompile my kernel myself. | 18:25 |
| fasta | Likely someone has already fixed it (as always). | 18:25 |
| Ian_Corne | you think it's a kernel problem? | 18:25 |
| fasta | Ian_Corne: yes, I think so. | 18:26 |
| fasta | lightdm is pretty useless, imho. | 18:26 |
| === STiK_ is now known as STiK | ||
| Gamoder | Hi - I wonder whether 11.10 will be supporting significantly more (and/or better) hardware than the current 11.04 does (especially regarding Nvidia Optimus and some «Multitouch»-Touchpads) | 18:56 |
| penguin42 | Gamoder: I don't know, but if you knew which program/package deals with it then it might be possible to look at the changelog for that package | 18:59 |
| Gamoder | Unfortunately I don't think I know that - and since I am currently not using mentioned new-hardware notebook I can't look it up now | 19:01 |
| DanaG | Speaking of touchpads, I wish somebody would address this: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-input-synaptics/+bug/546697 | 19:04 |
| ubottu | Ubuntu bug 546697 in xserver-xorg-input-synaptics (Ubuntu) "enable multitouch support on older touchpads, as supported by driver v15.0.9.0" [Medium,Confirmed] | 19:04 |
| DanaG | There's precisely one Windows driver that unlocks multi-finger detection on ALL touchpads... so we need to figure out how it's doing that. | 19:05 |
| Gamoder | strange - I had no problems using «multitouch» (well - two-finger-scroll/tap - which is all I need) with my old notebook | 19:05 |
| DanaG | And speaking of scrolling, Gnome really needs an option to enable BOTH kinds of scrolling. | 19:06 |
| Gamoder | you mean scrolling both on the edge and using two fingers? Well - i personally don't need it, but of course it would be nice. But hey, it's Gnome and not KDE, so ... | 19:07 |
| DanaG | For me, I need it if I want to use a magic trackpad with my laptop. | 19:08 |
| DanaG | Internal touchpad won't do two-finger (at least, in Linux, or in any other Windows driver). | 19:08 |
| Gamoder | Magic trackpad = the thing you can do finger gestures on? | 19:08 |
| DanaG | So either I get two-finger on magic trackpad and NO SCROLLING AT ALL on internal, | 19:09 |
| DanaG | Or I get edge-scrolling on both. | 19:09 |
| Gamoder | ah, ok | 19:09 |
| Gamoder | So I'd prefer edge-scrolling on both :-) | 19:09 |
| DanaG | I'd prefer to have both on both. | 19:09 |
| DanaG | With that one magic Windows driver, I have two-finger and edge scrolling on the internal touchpad. | 19:09 |
| Gamoder | ok - but actually, for my new notebook, I would like to have at least one of all these options :-) | 19:09 |
| DanaG | The Windows driver for the magic trackpad suck too much, though. | 19:10 |
| DanaG | lost an 's' there. | 19:10 |
| Gamoder | yeah - Windows mouse acceleration is somewhat strange, I think | 19:10 |
| DanaG | The internal touchpad, on the other hand, is great in Windows. | 19:11 |
| DanaG | Magic Trackpad's driver is deliberately garbage. | 19:11 |
| DanaG | Can't even right-click properly. | 19:11 |
| DanaG | Anyway, what kind of touchpad do you have? | 19:14 |
| DanaG | Recent Synaptics? | 19:14 |
| Gamoder | Some kind of Alps Touchpad, I think | 19:15 |
| mongy | ok I am trying out alpha3. how can I change font sizes? | 20:50 |
| Ian_Corne | i think via ubuntu-tweak | 20:52 |
| Ian_Corne | or something along those lines | 20:53 |
| penguin42 | scary that doesn't seem doable by default | 20:53 |
| rww | !info gnome-tweak-tool | 20:53 |
| ubottu | gnome-tweak-tool (source: gnome-tweak-tool): tool to adjust advanced configuration settings for GNOME. In component universe, is optional. Version 3.0.4-1 (oneiric), package size 51 kB, installed size 500 kB | 20:54 |
| rww | ubuntu tweak is a different thing :) | 20:54 |
| Ian_Corne | idd penguin42 | 20:54 |
| rww | psh, why would normal users /ever/ want to change the font size. /s | 20:55 |
| mongy | because its just huge | 21:00 |
| mongy | first thing I do since unity is reduce font and reduce the big wedge that is the launcher | 21:01 |
| Dimmuxx | reducing font size is always one of the first things I do on a fresh ubuntu install | 21:05 |
| htorque | gnome devs should consider renaming that tool. "tweak" is a synonym for "screw up your system". no windows user will ever try it. :P | 21:05 |
| DanaG | Yeah, the default font size, assuming CORRECT DPI, is huge. | 21:06 |
| Gamoder | Hmm ... not that bad for me | 21:06 |
| DanaG | Unfortunately, Xorg pulls screen dimensions out of its butt to make up a hardcoded 96 DPI. | 21:06 |
| DanaG | So I now have a 20-inch laptop! It's a feature! | 21:06 |
| Ian_Corne | hehe | 21:07 |
| DanaG | I booted Ubuntu, and bam, instant headache from the tiny font size. | 21:07 |
| ali1234 | DanaG: it only does that when used with broken hardware and/or drivers | 21:07 |
| ali1234 | unless you use KDE, then anything can happen | 21:08 |
| ali1234 | if i didn't have a 24" monitor i would definitely want to decrease the font size | 21:09 |
| htorque | so, only in the common case. :P i'm a bit sad you can only change a "text-scaling-factor" instead of the dpi setting... | 21:09 |
| Gamoder | I never have wanted to decrease the font size | 21:10 |
| penguin42 | is fairly sure people often want to increase stuff if they have bad eyes or a high res display | 21:10 |
| Gamoder | But a problem is that even for a given font size, GTK (at least the default sytle) needs much space - especially visible when comparing Windows-Eclipse VS Gnome-Eclipse | 21:10 |
| diverse_izzue | my nautilus hangs upon opening a file properties dialog. anyone else? | 21:18 |
| DanaG | ali1234: wrong. | 21:20 |
| DanaG | It actively lies. | 21:20 |
| DanaG | http://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=23705 | 21:20 |
| ubottu | Freedesktop bug 23705 in Server/general "xserver forces 96 DPI on randr-1.2-capable drivers, overriding correct autodetection" [Normal,Reopened] | 21:20 |
| ali1234 | works for me | 21:21 |
| === em is now known as botten_emma | ||
| === botten_emma is now known as boten_emma | ||
| dupondje | Damn Empathy | 21:55 |
| dupondje | its like the most crashing app :s | 21:55 |
| === boten_emma is now known as em | ||
| BUGabundo | Power Night o/ | 21:57 |
| BUGabundo | does this work for anyone? http://madebyevan.com/webgl-water/ | 22:09 |
| etph987 | anyone know a hack to get classic gnome on 11.10? | 22:13 |
| rww | !info gnome-session-fallback | 22:13 |
| ubottu | gnome-session-fallback (source: gnome-session): GNOME Session Manager - GNOME fallback session. In component universe, is optional. Version 3.1.5-0ubuntu1 (oneiric), package size 5 kB, installed size 196 kB | 22:13 |
| rww | assuming "something that looks moderately like GNOME 2" counts as "classic gnome" | 22:13 |
| rww | since there is no GNOME 2 on oneiric | 22:13 |
| etph987 | unity drives me crazy, got classic running on 11.04 | 22:13 |
| Ian_Corne | etph987: have you looked at lxde? | 22:14 |
| etph987 | like kde | 22:15 |
| etph987 | is there a way of upgrading to gnome 3 in 11.04? | 22:16 |
| rww | !gnome3 | 22:17 |
| ubottu | Oneiric will use GNOME 3.x packages. The 3.x packages will be landing soon, if not yet updated, it'll happen soonish. You can also help the desktop team update packages, ask in #ubuntu-desktop for more info on helping the team. | 22:17 |
| rww | oh, right, #ubuntu+1 | 22:17 |
| * rww sighs | 22:17 | |
| rww | etph987: /msg ubottu !gnome3 | 22:17 |
| Ian_Corne | etph987: there's a ppa | 22:18 |
| Ian_Corne | BUT | 22:18 |
| Ian_Corne | i wouldn't do it | 22:18 |
| etph987 | how come? lan_Come | 22:18 |
| Ian_Corne | Ian Corne | 22:19 |
| Ian_Corne | ;-) | 22:19 |
| rww | as I said, /msg ubottu !gnome3 | 22:19 |
| Ian_Corne | because when I tried it, it didn't work well and broke unity and gnome-classic | 22:19 |
| etph987 | ohh k | 22:20 |
| Ian_Corne | but rww has to tell you something | 22:20 |
| Ian_Corne | :p | 22:20 |
| etph987 | ubottu !gnome3 | 22:21 |
| ubottu | Oneiric will use GNOME 3.x packages. The 3.x packages will be landing soon, if not yet updated, it'll happen soonish. You can also help the desktop team update packages, ask in #ubuntu-desktop for more info on helping the team. | 22:21 |
| Ian_Corne | no, he said /msg ubottu !gnome3 | 22:21 |
| rww | doesn't work in here, there's a !gnome3-#ubuntu+1. hence me saying /msg. | 22:22 |
| Ian_Corne | It basicly says what I said, didn't know :) | 22:22 |
| BUGabundo | nite tech world | 23:33 |
| Ian_Corne | gn | 23:33 |
| alex-mayorga | I got caught in the multiarch changes, any easy fix? | 23:34 |
| alex-mayorga | !multiarch | 23:34 |
| jtaylor | whats your issue? | 23:34 |
| Ian_Corne | i guess the ndiswrapper? | 23:35 |
| alex-mayorga | sudo aptitude safe-upgrade fails with Unable to resolve dependencies for the upgrade: no solution found. | 23:35 |
| jtaylor | did you enable multiarch? | 23:35 |
| alex-mayorga | yup, followed https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2011-August/000886.html | 23:36 |
| poolie | hi | 23:36 |
| poolie | is it just me or is it really hard to resize windows on oneiric unity | 23:36 |
| poolie | if they don't have a resize grab handle within the window | 23:36 |
| jtaylor | yes some don't have it | 23:36 |
| jtaylor | there were some complaints about them, apparently someone caved :( | 23:37 |
| jtaylor | I liked them | 23:37 |
| jtaylor | alex-mayorga: can you give more detail | 23:37 |
| alex-mayorga | I got bitten by bug 357965 | 23:39 |
| ubottu | Launchpad bug 357965 in nspluginwrapper (Ubuntu) "MASTER package nspluginwrapper 1.2.2-0ubuntu4 failed to install/upgrade: wrapper update crashes when gcu-plugin is installed" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/357965 | 23:39 |
| alex-mayorga | that lead to bug 830526 | 23:39 |
| jtaylor | thats a old bug :O | 23:39 |
| ubottu | Launchpad bug 830526 in nspluginwrapper (Ubuntu) "Dependency missing for flashplugin-installer in Oneiric" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/830526 | 23:39 |
| alex-mayorga | so I followed https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2011-August/000886.html | 23:39 |
| alex-mayorga | no my regular aptitude update aptitude safe-upgrade is not working | 23:40 |
| alex-mayorga | just looking for a fix, if any | 23:40 |
| jtaylor | what does apt-get dist-upgrade say` | 23:40 |
| alex-mayorga | jtaylor: 35 upgraded, 9 newly installed, 11 to remove and 0 not upgraded. | 23:41 |
| alex-mayorga | let me go that route, thanks | 23:41 |
| jtaylor | check what it removes | 23:41 |
| jtaylor | dist-upgrade is not safe | 23:41 |
| alex-mayorga | brltty-x11 gir1.2-unity-3.0 gnome-mag gstreamer0.10-camerabin libatspi1.0-0 | 23:42 |
| alex-mayorga | libgjs0b liblightdm-gobject-0-0 libntfs-3g75 libpulse-browse0 | 23:42 |
| alex-mayorga | lightdm-greeter-example-gtk ntfsprogs | 23:42 |
| alex-mayorga | shall I cancel? | 23:42 |
| poolie | jtaylor, were you replying to me about resizing? | 23:43 |
| jtaylor | yes | 23:43 |
| jtaylor | but I know nothing about it | 23:43 |
| alex-mayorga | poolie: I think there's a known issue about 1 pixel borders | 23:43 |
| jtaylor | alex-mayorga: seems safe | 23:43 |
| alex-mayorga | jtaylor: thanks! I'm upgrading right now | 23:44 |
| Ian_Corne | alex-mayorga: show us what it's going to install too | 23:44 |
| Ian_Corne | newly | 23:44 |
| Ian_Corne | i think ntfsprogs doesn't have a replacement, which is normal and brltty either | 23:44 |
| Ian_Corne | the rrest should have a replacement | 23:44 |
| Ian_Corne | but as long as ubuntu-desktop isn't removed, you should keep a working system I think | 23:45 |
| miki | 404 Not Found [IP: 91.189.88.40 80] | 23:45 |
| alex-mayorga | Ian_Corne: here http://paste.ubuntu.com/672005/ | 23:46 |
| Ian_Corne | ah kernel updates! good :) | 23:46 |
| alex-mayorga | should I go ahead? | 23:47 |
| Ian_Corne | think so | 23:47 |
| jtaylor | yes looks fine | 23:47 |
| Ian_Corne | I did these updates before too | 23:47 |
| alex-mayorga | thanks guys | 23:47 |
| Ian_Corne | except the kernel | 23:47 |
| Ian_Corne | don't know about that | 23:47 |
| jtaylor | kernell upgrades are usually safe | 23:48 |
| jtaylor | as they don't remove the old one | 23:48 |
| jtaylor | if it breaks, boot the old one | 23:48 |
| alex-mayorga | yup, would let you know | 23:48 |
| alex-mayorga | for now my system is Flash free, due to google-talkplugin | 23:49 |
| alex-mayorga | dunno if that's a bod or good thing :) | 23:49 |
| Ian_Corne | jtaylor: but they can break your gfx blob | 23:49 |
| Ian_Corne | because dkms doesn't install for the older kernels | 23:49 |
| Ian_Corne | alex-mayorga: alot of websites still use flash, so i dunno | 23:49 |
| poolie | how am i supposed to tab between windows within a single application? | 23:50 |
| Ian_Corne | if you can live without, good for you | 23:50 |
| rww | poolie: Alt-` | 23:50 |
| alex-mayorga | Ian_Corne: only thing I miss id grooveshark.com | 23:50 |
| rww | poolie: might be Alt-keyAboveTab, dunno, but it's ` on my keyboard | 23:50 |
| Ian_Corne | aha :) | 23:50 |
| Ian_Corne | yeah didn't even realise it used flash | 23:50 |
| Ian_Corne | alex-mayorga: you're on 64bit? | 23:50 |
| alex-mayorga | Ian_Corne: yup | 23:51 |
| Ian_Corne | https://launchpad.net/~sevenmachines/+archive/flash/+packages | 23:51 |
| Ian_Corne | 64 bit beta flash plugin | 23:51 |
| alex-mayorga | wait, the dist upgrade is pulling Flash now | 23:51 |
| Ian_Corne | it's pretty stable | 23:51 |
| Ian_Corne | ah | 23:51 |
| Ian_Corne | also good | 23:51 |
| Ian_Corne | i like the 64 bit one better then the 32bit+ndis | 23:51 |
| alex-mayorga | it crapped again with: nspluginwrapper: no appropriate viewer found for /usr/lib/flashplugin-installer/libflashplayer.so | 23:52 |
| Ian_Corne | yeah it's broken :p | 23:52 |
| jtaylor | it didn't install any i386 libs | 23:52 |
| Ian_Corne | idd | 23:52 |
| alex-mayorga | Ian_Corne: let me try the 64 bit Flash | 23:52 |
| poolie | rww that's what i guessed, since that's it on mac, but it doesn't work for me | 23:52 |
| alex-mayorga | I do miss the music down here :( | 23:52 |
| poolie | jtaylor, right, bug 160311, a very popular bug | 23:53 |
| ubottu | Launchpad bug 160311 in metacity "Resizing windows by grabbing window borders is difficult" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/160311 | 23:53 |
| rww | poolie: open Alt-tab, tab to application you want, then start doing Alt-`. That worked for me yesterday. | 23:53 |
| alex-mayorga | anyone else with now scroll arrows on Terminal windows? | 23:53 |
| rww | I was wondering who originally had the bad idea for that behavior, btw. Utterly unsurprised to hear that it came from OS X | 23:53 |
| poolie | rww | 23:54 |
| Ian_Corne | ugh ` tabbing | 23:54 |
| poolie | wow, that's kind of cool but not very discoverable | 23:54 |
| alex-mayorga | Ian_Corne: mind walking me the PPA route, please? | 23:54 |
| poolie | also, why not make it look at the top level? | 23:54 |
| Ian_Corne | it's awful, i'm on azerty | 23:54 |
| jtaylor | apt-add-repository ppa:sevenmachines/flash | 23:55 |
| Ian_Corne | alex-mayorga: sudo add-apt-repository ppa:sevenmachines/flash | 23:55 |
| Ian_Corne | done | 23:55 |
| Ian_Corne | ok jtaylor ! | 23:55 |
| jtaylor | update, install flashplugin64-installer | 23:55 |
| Ian_Corne | steal my thunder why don't you! | 23:55 |
| jtaylor | ._. | 23:55 |
| Ian_Corne | :) | 23:55 |
| jtaylor | no one using opera here or? | 23:57 |
| jtaylor | because my flash is broken with opera | 23:57 |
| jtaylor | but works fine with other browsers | 23:57 |
| alex-mayorga | jtaylor: not here | 23:59 |
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