[02:03] <zkriesse> phillw: You 'round mate?
[02:03] <Unit193> He currently had /away set if that means anything
[02:03] <zkriesse> Yeah means he's probably out or sleepin
[02:16] <Ahmcuk> !build
[04:41] <ubuntu_> I am pissed off :(
[04:41] <ubuntu_> Spent last day and today but could not install lubuntu
[04:41] <ubuntu_> on 1MB DSL speed I downloaded lubuntu several times, MD5 sum is also ok but during installation it give file copy error
[04:42] <ubuntu_> tried on my two systems, my friend also tried on his computer but same problem
[04:42] <ubuntu_> i wonder how other people got installed lubuntu in their systems
[04:43] <ubuntu_> my mouse pointer is left to right
[04:43] <jmarsden> ubuntu_: Can you boot from the CD?  If so, does it pass the Test the CD" menu item test
[04:43] <ubuntu_> I tried with both cd's usb, cannot boot from CD it goes to command line. Didn't try test the cd
[04:43] <jmarsden> Try it :)
[04:44] <ubuntu_> what will that do? i will have to burn cd again
[04:44] <jmarsden> No.  If the md5sum of the downloaded .iso file is good, then you need to check if the image on the CD is also good....
[04:44] <jmarsden> The kind of error you are seeing sounds like a hardware issue of some sort, we need to find out where the problem is.
[04:45] <ubuntu_> these troubles with me never happened on same cd, same image burner. with linux mint, ubuntu, mint lxde blah blah
[04:45] <ubuntu_> sure i will be happy to give details
[04:45] <ubuntu_> so that lubuntu can fix the problem
[04:46] <jmarsden> OK, so it must be Lubuntu hates you :)   I am an Lubuntu developer trying to help you.  Please run the test mentu item and tell me what it says.
[04:46] <ubuntu_> my one another feedback is please add IRC lubuntu channel details on front pages, It was really hard to find about lubuntu IRC channel
[04:46] <ubuntu_> ok
[04:48] <jmarsden> Which web page or pages do you think we should add info about the IRC channel to?
[04:48] <ubuntu_> on lubuntu.net main site
[04:49] <ubuntu_> i found it from wiki page https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/ContactUs
[04:50] <jmarsden> Ah, OK.  lubuntu.net is ... not really the main site, in some ways.  http://help.ubuntu.com/community/Lubuntu is the main Lubuntu web page.
[04:50] <ubuntu_> :O really
[04:50] <jmarsden> All the pages at ubuntu.com about Lubuntu have the "Contact Us" link.
[04:50] <jmarsden> Or should have.
[04:51] <ubuntu_> lubuntu.net isn't official site? :O
[04:51] <jmarsden> Call it historical accident.  It is owned by someone who used to be a lot more active in Lubuntu than he has been recently.
[04:51] <ubuntu_> what are official links to dowload lubuntu iso?
[04:51] <ubuntu_> download*
[04:52] <jmarsden> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Lubuntu/GetLubuntu
[04:52] <jmarsden> The /topic of this channel has a shortedn URL to that, too.
[04:53] <ubuntu_> yes i am downloading from these tried both .iso mirrors and tired torrent too https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Lubuntu/GetLubuntu
[04:53] <jmarsden> If you type /topic here, you will see that none of the links in the topic point to lubuntu.net :)
[04:54] <ubuntu_> wow thanks
[04:54] <jmarsden> By why are you redownloading... I asked you to boot from a CD and run the test menu item... ?
[04:54] <ubuntu_> yes i am going to test cd was download screenshot to show you a screenshot
[04:54] <jmarsden> OK.
[04:54] <ubuntu_> this happens to me from cd, usb during installation http://imagebin.org/169046
[04:55] <jmarsden> Wow, interesting ubiquity bug you are seeing there.
[04:55] <jmarsden> Let's test the CD and then look at that some more.
[04:55] <ubuntu_> ok i am going to reboot brb
[05:34] <jmarsden> Hmmm: "<ubuntu_> ok i am going to reboot brb "   was 40 minutes ago...
[05:36] <Unit193> Well, assuming he isn't using vista, he should have been back :/
[05:36] <jmarsden> Yes... I'm going to give him about another 20 minutes and then go AFK myself.
[05:37] <bioterror> vista boots rather fast!
[09:50] <ValentineX> jmarsden: ping
[09:51] <jmarsden> ValentineX: I'm here, but I shouldn't be, it is approaching 3am...
[09:51] <ValentineX> oh I am Aaqil, do you remember I was here before telling you about my Lubuntu installation problem
[09:52] <ValentineX> what is your google plus ID, I would be happy to add you :)
[09:52] <jmarsden> I don't do all the "social" stuff; email and IRC is plenty to keep me busy :)
[09:53] <ValentineX> I checked CD for defects and it said cd is ok
[09:53] <jmarsden> Ah, you were ubuntu_ before, not Aaqil
[09:53] <ValentineX> oh sorry :D
[09:54] <jmarsden> OK, so it is most likely something "different" about your PC, perhaps disk size or partitioning or something?  Is there anything unusual about the machine you are installing Lubuntu onto?
[09:54] <ValentineX> CD is ok, but still same installation problems
[09:54] <jmarsden> Well, at least you can stop redownloading the image now :)
[09:54] <ValentineX> i dont think so ..... I think problem is with lubuntu installer ... because I install linux mint LXDE, mint gnome, ubuntu, xubuntu on my same machine without any problems
[09:55] <jmarsden> The Lubuntu installer works on many many machines, and this is the first time I have heard of the issue.  So yes, there is probably some issue in ubiquity and how it handles doing Lubuntu installs on your hardware...
[09:55] <ValentineX> and my friend with AMD dual core is also facing same problem. Mine is intel 945 board
[09:56] <jmarsden> I've pesonally done tens of Lubuntu installs and never seen that issue... so while I accept there is an issue there, there is likely to be something about the way you are doing the install or the machine(s) being installed onto that is triggering it.
[09:57] <jmarsden> During the install, what non-default things are you choosing?
[09:57] <jmarsden> Are you using an unusual language or keyboard?
[09:57] <ValentineX> I choose manual partitions ... no internet connection ... normal USA keyboard settings
[09:58] <jmarsden> If you let it auto partition does it make any difference?
[09:58] <ValentineX> yes, because I am installing it with windows xp dual boot
[09:59] <jmarsden> Aha!  That is the "unusual" thing about your install, then.  All the ones I have done have been on dedicated PCs or else in virtual machines.
[10:00] <jmarsden> Is your friend with the AMD also doing dual-boot?
[10:01] <ValentineX> yes
[10:01] <jmarsden> OK.  Do you happen to have a spare old hard drive, one that you could temporarily use instead of the "real" hard drive, and test an install using the whole drive and automatic partitioning?
[10:02] <ValentineX> cant do this I do not play with hardwares or I mess things
[10:03] <jmarsden> Ah... OK :)
[10:04] <jmarsden> I don't have any more immediate suggestions for you to try, but thanks for letting us know about the issue.  I'll see if I can test a dual boot install later this week (I have a Windows-free home, but do use Windows at work...)
[10:05] <jmarsden> You might want to join the lubuntu-desktop mailing list and ask there in case anyone else has seen this kind of problem with Lubuntu.
[10:05] <ValentineX> Thanks, my intention to come here was to report the problem to make Lubuntu better
[10:05] <ValentineX> ok
[10:06] <jmarsden> OK, sounds good.  Now I need to sleep ... goodnight :)
[10:06] <ValentineX> gnite
[10:44] <gigenieks> Hi all,
[11:28] <gigenieks> guys need help we cannot install Lubuntu tried:
[11:28] <gigenieks> 1) LiveCD
[11:28] <gigenieks> 2) Alternate install
[11:28] <gigenieks> 3) Minimal CD install
[11:28] <gigenieks> all failed
[11:28] <bioterror> fails on what?
[11:55] <Gross> hello
[11:55] <Gross> i need help
[11:55] <Gross> I looked on internet but still havent find solution
[12:03] <bioterror> Gross, that doesnt tell us much
[12:04] <Gross> well
[12:04] <Gross> PCMan and trash
[12:04] <Gross> in lubuntu 11.04
[12:04] <Gross> ofc there is not one
[12:05] <Gross> and I want it :)
[12:05] <bioterror> you mean like trash on desktop or what?
[12:05] <Gross> yes
[12:05] <bioterror> it doesnt work
[12:06] <Gross> I know that PCMan deleted files instantly
[12:09] <Gross> thanx anyway byw
[12:09] <Gross> bye
[12:21] <japan> can somebody help me about adding my language on keyborad
[12:24] <bioterror> was it  /etc/default/keyboard
[12:24] <bioterror> XKBLAYOUT="us" or what ever you want it to be
[12:24] <bioterror> I dont have buntu machine near me now
[12:25] <bioterror> someone could confirm this for me
[12:26] <avelldiroll> bioterror: i confirm, that should do the trick
[12:34] <japan> i am cumming on dead bird
[12:34] <bioterror> we all have our faults
[12:35] <japan> when i see dead bird , i fill erection
[12:35] <bioterror> and now you can behave
[12:50] <gigenieks> How about my issue?
[12:52] <bioterror> gigenieks, what about it? you have not told us any information about your failure
[12:52] <bioterror> I cant see your problem from here
[12:53] <gigenieks> I will do something better -->  http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=11175726#post11175726
[12:56] <bioterror> how you can have a 900MHz Celeron and graphics card from the stone age?-)
[12:58] <gigenieks> I don't have. My friend somehow has. :D
[12:58] <bioterror> and about that minimal install
[12:59] <bioterror> he cannot install it at all?
[12:59] <gigenieks> I explained everything in that thread; did you read it?
[12:59] <gigenieks> nothing happened
[12:59] <gigenieks> we waited like 20min
[13:00] <bioterror> is that RAM okay? you've run memtest?
[13:01] <gigenieks> when he clicked "Command Line Install" - there blinked some text in top left corner it was like shrinked together (at least he explained it that way to me), so it was not readable. And then it dissappeared and nothing happened for 20minutes....
[13:01] <gigenieks> bioterror: he installed on that PC XP SP2 - no problems
[13:04] <bioterror> if nothing is wrong with it and the Xorg supports that display, then check out the boot parameters for kernel
[13:05] <gigenieks> "check boot parameters" - I don't have a clue what to check or how to do it.. and if I did know - I wouldn't know what commands to type. And I know all above I would have to explain it to my friend over skype. And friend havent used Linux at all!!!
[13:06] <bioterror> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BootOptions#Kernel%20Options
[13:08] <bioterror> you may want to xforcevse too
[13:08] <bioterror> xforcevesa
[13:09] <bioterror> but start without acpi and apic's
[13:09] <bioterror> could do the trick
[13:09] <bioterror> if you dont have anything better to do, go see your friend and have some nice GNU/Linux time together
[13:11] <gigenieks> Can you post exactly what should I (he) do in forums, so others could give input, and maybe fix same problem?
[13:11] <gigenieks> I would really appreacitate
[13:13] <bioterror> nope, I'm already 15mins late and I should be leaving my work
[13:13] <bioterror> as my parents in laws returns from holiday and my wife and kids are waiting
[13:13] <bioterror> you can try those out and then post if you had it working ;)
[13:14] <bioterror> I dont like ubuntuforums as it's full of "BEAN HUNTERS"
[13:14] <bioterror> you post something and right after that comes someone and rephrases your lines as his owns
[13:20] <silverarrow> hi
[13:20] <silverarrow> are lubuntu up to date on VLC ?
[13:21] <silverarrow> I suspect there are some codecs missing, it doesn't play youtube anymore
[13:21] <bioterror> youtube is played with flash
[13:21] <bioterror> or with html5
[13:21] <bioterror> as chromium can handle that
[13:22] <silverarrow> I know, but for downloaded youtube videos then?
[13:22] <silverarrow> I used to be able to open youtube flash streams and play fine too
[13:22] <bioterror> was it 1.1.11 the latest VLC
[13:23] <bioterror> yes
[13:23] <bioterror> they might have changed something in youtube
[13:24] <silverarrow> maybe, I have 1.1.9 The Luggage, but in linux the version number is always different
[13:24] <bioterror> my vlc player disappeared :D
[13:25] <bioterror> I inserted youtube url for stream
[13:25] <silverarrow> involuntarily ?
[13:25] <bioterror> yes, it crashed :D
[13:25] <silverarrow> yes, that used to work fine
[13:25] <silverarrow> mine doesn't, but will not play youtube any more
[13:26] <bioterror> crashes
[13:26] <silverarrow> is lubuntu up to date with latest vlc ?
[13:26] <bioterror> now I'm off, laters
[13:26] <silverarrow> have a fine day
[13:26] <silverarrow> or evening I suppose
[13:26] <bioterror> my worklaptop has 1.1.11
[13:26] <bioterror> ;)
[13:26] <bioterror> on windows and it crashes, tried twice
[13:26] <silverarrow> weird
[13:27] <silverarrow> maybe some kind of issue
[13:27] <silverarrow> the videolan guys are usually quick at responding to flaws
[13:28] <silverarrow> ubuntu updates are often delayed
[13:28] <silverarrow> like, new versions doesn't apply until next version of ubuntu
[13:30] <silverarrow> latest VLC works fine in old windows xp
[13:30] <silverarrow> I checked
[13:30] <silverarrow> any thoughts ?
[13:31] <bhm> silverarrow: Is this what you are looking for?
[13:31] <bhm> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=896757
[13:31] <silverarrow> Oneiric Ocelot
[13:33] <silverarrow> bhm, it's abit old though, 2008, and mine has played fine for ages
[13:33] <silverarrow> and not quite the same issue
[13:33] <bhm> ok sorry
[13:33] <silverarrow> it's all right, worth a shot
[13:34] <silverarrow> bhm, what if i removed lubuntu vlc, (installed form package manager) and get the one from their site?
[13:35] <bhm> v 1.1.11 ?
[13:35] <silverarrow> yes
[13:35] <silverarrow> it seems I have 1.1.09
[13:35] <bhm> :-)
[13:35] <silverarrow> which is a bit silly, cause I installed not that long a go, like a week
[13:36] <bhm> well your install package might be a bit outdated. Maybe ubuntu software centre will fix that soon
[13:36] <bhm> have you checked the lib's?
[13:36] <silverarrow> yes, maybe I should just wait a week or so and see
[13:37] <bhm> try:
[13:37] <bhm> sudo apt-get install libdvdread4
[13:37] <bhm> then: sudo /usr/share/doc/libdvdread4/install-css.sh
[13:38] <bhm> and restart vlc
[13:38] <bhm> Does it help?
[13:38] <silverarrow> It seemed I already had the lib package
[13:38] <bhm> good
[13:39] <bhm> I just found VLC guys on IRC on irc.videolan.org #videolan give them a buzz
[13:39] <bhm> :-)
[13:40] <silverarrow> vlc plays sound, but no picture
[13:40] <silverarrow> cool
[13:40] <silverarrow> thanks
[13:40] <bhm> Ur Welcome
[14:57] <silverarrow> does anyone know minitube?
[15:13] <silverarrow> is the gnome player project under development, or more like a finished product ?
[15:18] <silverarrow> anyone using the terminal window for updates?
[15:29] <silverarrow> how do you do updates from windows
[15:29] <silverarrow> I have been googeling commands
[15:29] <silverarrow> ?
[15:33] <silverarrow> any clever lubuntu users here?
[15:33] <silverarrow> half clever?
[15:49] <silverarrow> not so clever but enthusiastic ?
[15:49] <silverarrow> ;-)
[15:50] <silverarrow> any random geek from the street
[16:26] <silverarrow> bioterror?
[16:26] <bioterror> what
[16:26] <bioterror> I've got intense discussion about ouman eh-203!
[16:27] <silverarrow> just be intense, maybe another time then ;- )
[16:29] <bioterror> !ssh | silverarrow
[16:35] <silverarrow> anyone good with terminal window?
[16:35] <silverarrow> and ppa
[17:26] <IAmNotThatGuy> bioterror, nice help to japan LOL
[18:27] <Shvelo> Hey
[18:27] <Shvelo> Installing Lubuntu on Virtualbox
[18:28] <Shvelo> any guide on setting up a web server?
[18:29] <Shvelo> anyone here?
[18:35] <bioterror> that was guy in hurry
[18:35] <Unit193> Yep
[18:36] <Unit193> And Lubuntu server? lubuntu-core would be better, but still not the best
[18:37] <bioterror> nothing wrong in running web server
[18:37] <bioterror> as OS X comes with apache, so does OpenBSD
[18:37] <Unit193> Eh, I guess I do have lighthttpd installed
[18:38] <bioterror> lighttpd <3
[18:39] <Unit193> It's not used for much, that's for sure... (Moved to offtopic)
[18:43] <KM0201> how can you make pcman show thumbnails of files on remote filesystems?
[18:44] <bioterror> gvfs should enable that feature
[18:44] <KM0201> nautilus does, but the idea of installing nautilus for that is kinda silly.
[18:44] <KM0201> gvfs?
[18:45] <KM0201> gvs is installed.
[18:45] <bioterror> KM0201, thunar does that too
[18:45] <bioterror> and I'm sure pcmanfm can do it also
[18:45] <KM0201> bioterror: i tried thunar, not working there either
[18:48] <KM0201> just for grins, i installed nautilus, and thumbnails is working there, as i suspected
[18:50] <bioterror> KM0201, that's too easy =D
[18:50] <KM0201> bioterror: i know, and i'd rather not to do that.
[18:50] <bioterror> KM0201, did you use ssh:// or smb://?
[18:50] <KM0201> but i guess the question becomes, why doesn't pcmanfm have an option for thumbnails
[18:50] <KM0201> bioterror: smb
[18:50] <bioterror> okay
[18:50] <bioterror> try ssh://
[18:52] <KM0201> nope
[18:53] <leszek> hi
[18:54] <KM0201> any other ideas bioterror ?
[18:54] <bioterror> yes
[18:55] <bioterror> edit > preferences > Display
[18:55] <bioterror> there's Only show thumbnails for local files
[18:55] <bioterror> uncheck that box
[18:55] <bioterror> and adjust filesize big enough
[18:55] <KM0201> son of a.... i can't believe i missed that
[18:55] <bioterror> yeah
[18:56] <KM0201> that didn't work either though
[18:56] <bioterror> yes it works
[18:56] <KM0201> well wait, it didn't save the change for some reason, hang on
[18:57] <bioterror> put the size to 12MB and go to pictures folder
[18:57] <KM0201> i did that.
[18:57] <KM0201> it doesn't seem to save the changes.
[18:57] <KM0201> ok, now it saved the changes,
[18:57] <KM0201> lemme see if it worked.
[18:58] <KM0201> okk..
[18:58] <KM0201> its showing thumbnails for pics, but not for videos.
[18:58] <bioterror> yes
[18:58] <bioterror> as I said, make that file size bigger
[18:59] <KM0201> i did, i maxxed it out.
[19:14] <KM0201> any other ideas?
[20:09] <bhm> jmarsden?
[20:11] <bhm> Guess you have to hit the right box..... grmbl...
[20:14] <silverarrow> anyone clever with minitube?
[20:48] <silverarrow> really bad idea the minitube alternative, impissilble to upgrade
[20:48] <silverarrow> impossible*
[20:49] <lunasspecto> If any of the Lubuntu developers are around, I'd just like to say I've just switched from vanilla Ubuntu to Lubuntu, and I'm extremely satisfied. Thanks!
[20:56] <silverarrow> I did the same, Ubuntu and Totem really wore down my system
[20:57] <silverarrow> lunasspectro, considerably lighter
[20:57] <silverarrow> though Ubuntu should run with normal specs, but was way slower than Windows 7 here
[20:57] <KM0201> ubuntu was slower than 7?
[20:57] <KM0201> had to be 11.04
[20:58] <bioterror> only on slow hardware! ;D
[20:58] <silverarrow> yes, ubuntu 11.04
[20:59] <silverarrow> yeah, maybe not the best computer, but still 1,6 GHz processor
[20:59] <silverarrow> Ubuntu will not go on my newer HP,
[20:59] <silverarrow> the bootable live CD sort of will not boot
[21:00] <silverarrow> it halts before the boot up menue even
[21:00] <bioterror> I have couple of HP Compaq 8200 Elite's behind my back at work
[21:00] <silverarrow> like inbuilt Ubuntu inhibitor
[21:00] <bioterror> wish I had time to play around with them
[21:01] <silverarrow> Puppy linux goes on the HP just fine
[21:02] <silverarrow> might be driver issues too, making ubuntu run slow
[21:02] <silverarrow> windows 7, isn't that miraculously light and fast is it?
[21:03] <silverarrow> does anyone know how to add ppa for minitube?
[21:03] <silverarrow> I am having trouble
[21:03] <bioterror> you have guide on the ppa site
[21:04] <silverarrow> yes, I tried at least two guides googeling
[21:04] <silverarrow> *found googeling
[21:16] <pAt_> silverarrow: try Debian with LXDE, way faster then Lubuntu. I use it on my 1.6 Ghz Laptop. On my desktop, dual core Athlon, I use Ubuntu with LXDE
[21:17] <silverarrow> lubuntu runs fast here tough, on minimal computer
[21:17] <silverarrow> well, fast enough
[21:17] <silverarrow> ubuntu is like dipped in syrup
[21:18] <pAt_> Ubuntu with Gnome or Unity is a blowed Cow :D
[21:21] <pAt_> But even Ubuntu with LXDE alocates about 230 MBs after just starting it. Debian LXDE just needs 80 MB after start
[21:26] <silverarrow> maybe I should try debian then, but doesn't it very fast add to consumption when I add software?
[21:28] <silverarrow> pAt, I wonder why ubuntu has grown that big then
[21:28] <silverarrow> but I like ubuntu, when it runs fast
[21:32] <pAt_> I also like Ubuntu, used it for years, but it is blowed up. Yes, it will add to consumption, but not as fast as Ubuntu. In total, it is much more responsive silverarrow.
[21:32] <silverarrow> I see
[21:32] <silverarrow> right know lubuntu runs fine luckily
[21:32] <silverarrow> though I have major trouble with ppa
[21:33] <silverarrow> adding ppa and upgrading
[21:34] <pAt_> if lubuntu runs fine, then don´t touch it :)
[21:34] <pAt_> what problem with ppa?
[21:36] <pAt_> sorry, g2g silverarrow, catch you later
[21:36] <silverarrow> ppa for minitube
[21:37] <silverarrow> see you pAt
[21:51] <silverarrow> len, do you have any idea about adding ppa for minitube?
[21:52] <silverarrow> for upgrade via terminal
[21:56] <silverarrow> hi, mike
[22:09] <phillw> silverarrow: any ppa can be added, as to what it does to your system in terms of what additional resources it requires, is down to the author and not the linux operating system you use.
[22:10] <phillw> thankfully, any ppa can be easily removed, should it cause a problem :)
[22:14] <phillw> gilir: there is some chatter on the forum area, which I can confirm in that the daily builds have vanished / access denied. Any ideas as to what the problem is? http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/lubuntu/daily-live/20110818/
[22:14] <silverarrow> phillw, this ppa didn't come easy though
[22:15] <phillw> silverarrow: if it goes 'bad' then use https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/Developers#PPA_management
[22:15] <silverarrow> I am happy with all idiot proof "copy & paste" guides lol
[22:17] <silverarrow> phillw, trouble is I downloaded a version from package manager, and it turns out it is 2 versions outdated, and youtube have done something
[22:17] <phillw> adding an ppa, is about one the least painful methods of grabbing an app not in the repository, the advantage of using the repos is that there is some q.a. stuff done on them to get there. I've used ppa's not in the official repos and have been fine, others have borked really badly!
[22:18] <silverarrow> it might have been easier if I installed directly via terminal or via homepage
[22:18] <phillw> silverarrow: is that the download from you-tube via terminal?
[22:20] <phillw> there is an extension for chromium at http://www.chromeextensions.org/music-videos-photos/download-youtube-videos-as-mp4-flv/ that covers you-tube, I've never used mini tube - so cannot advise. sorry :/
[22:23] <phillw> silverarrow: Download Helper (previously only FFfox and one I use) is now available for Chromium :D
[22:24] <phillw> http://www.ubuntuvibes.com/2011/03/new-chrome-extension-brings-support-for.html
[22:25] <phillw> as an 'approved' extension, it should sit much happier than messing about with a ppa
[22:26] <silverarrow> youtube-dl works fine though, but playing is fuzz after the latest youtube codec type changes
[22:29] <phillw> silverarrow: Have a look at http://www.youtube.com/html5 Afterall, HTML5 is the future :)
[23:20] <silverarrow> I need a break, maybe I shall find a fix tomorrow