[11:01] Blazeix: _stink_ widox some awesome here I think: https://github.com/mockko/livereload [11:01] especially with the edit in one monitor, display in the other setup [12:26] my twitter feed is full of mitechie and mcrute [12:30] heh [12:31] brousch: You need to see more people. ;) [12:31] an occasional brent spiner in between [12:33] brousch: yea, sorry aobut that [12:33] we moved it off of twitter to IM, but too late [12:33] we didn't have each other in IM before hand or it'd never have gone that far [12:33] I am SHOCKED [12:34] * snap-l unfollows rick_h_ [12:34] yea, pretty much [12:34] I kept hearing in my head "Don't be THAT guy!" [12:34] * rick_h_ hangs head in shame [12:34] That's OK. We all have our moments. ;) [12:35] you are hereby sentenced to 7 days of facebook as your exclusive social network [12:35] crap, /me deletes internet [12:35] be happy i didn't make it myspace! [12:39] that would be foul [13:02] btw: I'm working on getting a booth for the loco at OLF [13:02] which means we'll need some folks to help man it [13:03] and something to give out. :) [13:03] Thinking business cards / flyers, etc [13:03] and a QR code so people can scan it to get to the loco directory page. [13:03] thoughts? [13:05] I approve. [13:05] ++ [13:05] ColonelPanic001: Congrats. When can you man the booth? :) [13:05] 2014 [13:05] You too, Wolfger ;) [13:05] penguin-shaped cookies with the qrcode in frosting on its belly [13:06] OK, from 8:14pm on Friday... until? :) [13:06] brousch++ [13:06] snap-l: if you get me to OLF and put me up in a room, I'll man the booth whenever you want me to [13:06] brousch is making cookies. [13:06] Wolfger++ [13:06] when is it, this weekend? [13:06] OLF is the week before my wife goes to Germany, so my cash is tied up [13:06] i will need you to stop by here to pick them up on your way to columbus [13:06] Wolfger: There's always duck tape [13:07] every year there's something that's in the way of me going to OLF, I've never been. One of these days. [13:07] bah, I say, bah [13:08] I really wanted to get back there this year, but my wife's trip trumps my plans. She deserves it. [13:08] Wolfger: Understandable [13:08] Germany trumps Ohio [13:09] In many more ways than one [13:10] OK, I'll post to the list to see if we can get some folks [13:10] Mentioned sharing a booth to the Ohio Folks, and they (very nicely) said that they have enough folks for their booth, and wouldn't it be great if Michigan had their own booth. :) [13:11] it's a great idea, fwiw, I just don't plan on being there. Maybe I'll try and go next year. It's a given that whenever I'm at a con, I'm willing to help with loco stuff. [13:14] ColonelPanic001: Thanks. :) [13:14] never said my help is a good thing. [13:15] Yeah, I'm surprised at how soon things are this year [13:15] Feel like it's *BOOM* Global Jam, *BOOM* OLF, *BOOM* something else. [13:15] yeah [13:15] OLF is free? [13:16] Yep, just the hotel costs money [13:16] and you can support them if you so choose. [13:16] just found the page with the details - nice [13:16] $65 isn't too bad for a weekend conf, suppose, even [13:16] and free is good. [13:18] maybe next year. Birthday gift to myself. [13:18] and to my girlfriend (the part where I'm gone all weekend, that is) [13:18] heh [13:19] ping ptenhoopen__ [13:21] nothing really jumps on me on the schedule, but several I'd at least stop into. Maybe 2012. [13:22] brousch: Yes? [13:23] snap-l: is this going to be joint with Ohio Loco? [13:24] This is Ohio Linux Fest, not Ontario Linux Fest. No joints. [13:28] * Wolfger makes plans for Ontario Linux Fest... [13:32] snap-l: If you don't get too many volunteers from your posting, I can probably help out. === ptenhoopen__ is now known as ptenhoopen [13:46] rick_h_: if things work out, we might be next to the Ohio Loco [13:46] ptenhoopen: Awesome. [13:47] ptenhoopen: I'll definitely seek you out. :) [13:47] OK [13:48] Elastic Beanstalk??? [13:48] snap-l: ok, so we're getting a lococast and miloco table and there's an ohio table? [13:49] rick_h_: That's correct. [13:49] snap-l: can you hit them up on trying to get lococast by these so we can help cross-cover tables? [13:49] Yeah, I thought of that this morning [13:49] not sure though since I think we're 'media' [13:54] 2 of you are manning 3 tables? [13:58] ok, going to go pound the pavement and see if anyone has any touchpads left [13:59] you could call around [14:00] and i posted a link to your query on google+ === jjesse_ is now known as jjesse [14:02] ZOMG. [14:02] I haven't done this since 1998/99 with Roxen web server. [14:02] rick_h would definitely appreciate this. [14:03] or anyone who runs apache at home for themselves. [14:03] NameBasedVirtualHosts over SSL. [14:03] http://fob.po8.org/node/289 [14:15] I <3 Service Manuals [14:15] "Printing is not working in the Windows. [14:15] Secure more space of the hard disk. [14:16] Two samples of troubleshooting for my Samsung Printer [14:17] no one reads the manual [14:18] This isn't just any ol' manual. It's the service manual [14:18] managed to stumble on it when searching for part numbers. [14:18] Though I'm thinking JoDee done blowed up the printer. [14:20] printed too many angry letters for the History channel? [14:20] used up all the red? [14:25] har har [14:49] :-) [14:49] brousch++ [14:53] ok, rumor is hp is getting more in stock this week [14:54] signed up to get notified...who knows... [14:54] final shipment from china or something? [14:55] no idea, just according to HP PR twitter user [14:55] http://twitter.com/#!/BrynaAtHP [14:55] probably all of the returns from people who don't like them [14:55] tried to get the demo unit from local office max with no luck [14:55] you a sam's club member? [14:56] https://bugs.php.net/bug.php?id=55439 [14:56] lol ^ [14:56] no [14:56] no sams club [14:56] costco maybe? [14:56] I was tempted to go hitting more places, but meh, it's not worth that much to be tbh [14:56] if I could hit buy I would, hope that the webos lives a little [14:57] i think google should buy it from HP. they would suddenly have a hundred thousand android-capable tablets in people's hands [14:57] and a few patents [14:58] well, palm has some good patents, I don't think HP is going to sell them away [14:58] and I'm holding out hope they open source it tbh [15:06] rick_h_: Oh geez (re: php returns md5 salts) [15:07] rick_h_: Why am I getting the feeling that some high profile sites are going to ask users to change their passwords because their passwords were never saved? :) [15:07] yea, because if they fix the hashing they'll no longer match and all get 'invalid password' errors [15:09] <_stink_> jrwren: hey, thanks for the apache link. [15:10] Man, what is with these printer companies releasing these pathetic toner carts [15:11] $70 gets you 2600 pages ( or 2100 pages) [15:11] and that's for the Brother econom printer "high yield" cart. [15:13] Hmm, this Brother printer uses PC133 memory. I think I still have some in some box somewhere. [15:14] <_stink_> snap-l: i've got some you can have if needed. [15:15] _stink_: Thanks for the offer. Let me check first before taking you up on that. [15:16] "THIS IS MY 6TH BROTHER PRINTER. I TRY TO KEEP PRINTERS/COPIERS WITH SAME TONER CARTS. TWO NEEDED REPAIR AFTER 5 YEARS OF SERVICE BUT THE COST OF PARTS AND SERVICE WAS ALMOST THAT OF NEW ONES. NO QUESTION-NEW ONE." [15:16] I <3 reviews [15:17] brother is on my never buy list due to the POS we had from them 8 years ago [15:18] my dad has had good luck with his inkjet printers [15:18] yea, sorry. laserjet and that's it [15:18] every other printer is a rip off [15:18] You kind of have to wonder who continues to buy crappy printer after crappy printer. Wouldn't you have thought he would have learned after his *third* crappy Brother printer? [15:18] rick_h_: The HP I was looking at had the 2100 page toner that was more like 1600 pages. ;) [15:19] I want to like the HP, but that's frankly crap [15:19] devinheitmueller: people that don't even look at the brand when they buy, only the price tag [15:19] snap-l: laser? [15:19] rick_h_: Laser [15:19] http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003ZWHTMW/ref=cm_cr_pr_pb_item [15:20] Even laser jet has had a spotted history. When I was at Lucent we replaced a bunch of rock solid LaserJet IIIs with LaserJet 5Ls. We actually thew them away and dug the old Laserjet 3's out of the storage closet. [15:20] 15 yrs ago, my dad had pretty good luck with a canon laser... I think it was canon. I honestly don't recall. [15:20] ++ the laserjet 5 line was terrib.e [15:20] snap-l: ah Because this is a newer machine the high yield cartridges aren't available. They don't last that long for the price you have to pay for them... [15:21] devinheitmueller: 5L? Wasn't that the upright laser printer that was essentially plastic clockwork shit? [15:21] Yup. [15:21] That's the one. [15:21] The top feeder would always jam. [15:21] What a crappy design. [15:21] devinheitmueller: No wonder they replaced them [15:21] devinheitmueller: That printer was designed for the occasional note to Aunt Martha, not an office. [15:21] It was a "standard Lucent bundle". Basically when you order a PC it came with *that* particular pritner. [15:21] the 3 series was a workhorse. [15:21] man, we had 4's that ran forever [15:22] we actually wore out the wheels on sheet infeed [15:22] so they started taking in more than one page of paper at a time [15:22] I have a Laserjet 4 that I literally found on a curb in New York. [15:22] replaced the wheels, still kept going [15:22] We had a 3SI and a 4SI at Wayne that were awesome [15:22] I've got a newer-ish 1320, buy one high capacity toner ever 1.5ish years [15:22] I still ran an LJ4 until about a year ago. it was awesome. [15:23] except for the extra generator needed to power it during warm up lol [15:23] The students completely abused those printers, though, because WSU was stupid about paper [15:23] my LJ 4MX toner lasted 5+ yrs... I had got the toner and printer used. I almost never printed. My wife however printed many papers through grad school. [15:24] we'd get students printing Chinese newsletters that were scads of pages long, and students provided their own paper, so we'd get shit like looseleaf paper in the printer to try and get rid of these jobs. [15:24] but still probably a very small pagecount [15:24] I really should invent a laser printer that applies post-it notes to print jobs. That would avoid the whole "entire sheet of paper wasted for a cover page" problem. [15:24] every printer we had had to have the fuser replaced at one point [15:24] no. [15:24] the cost of the psot-it note is greater than a blank 8.5x11 [15:24] Just qrcode each page. ;) [15:25] Cover letters / cover sheets are stupid anyway. [15:25] Well, these aren't actually Post-It (™) notes. Just a smaller piece of paper adhered to the top page. [15:25] You need cover sheets if you have a common area printer servicing hundreds of users (like in a University). [15:25] unless you're sending a fax to someone, cover sheets are redundant [15:26] devinheitmueller: And you have one piece of paper that everyone throws out [15:26] snap-l: The point of a cover sheet for a print job is so that the guy working the printer knows who the document belongs to. [15:26] It's usefulness ceases once the job is picked up. [15:26] Yes, the end-user throws the paper out. [15:26] It's for routing the document to the correct user's dropbox. [15:26] devinheitmueller: The guy working the printer? Is this the 1980s all over again? [15:27] Let me go to the computer center so I can go pick up my job. [15:27] At Rutgers the computer lab had 200 users attached to two high capacity network printers. [15:27] devinheitmueller: At Hope we used to get greenbar printouts from the vax [15:28] http://avdi.org/devblog/2011/08/22/your-code-is-my-hell/ <3 [15:28] Frankly, in my perfect world, we'd just send PDF documents to each other [15:28] I'm just saying, in environments where it's not economical for everybody to have their own printer, there are cases where a cover sheet is appropriate. [15:28] especially sensitive documents like insurance forms and shit. [15:29] devinheitmueller: Bah, I say. Just ferret through the stack of paper that nobody culls and find your job. ;) [15:29] That's how a real office works. :) [15:29] none of this cover-sheet-and-drop-box shit [15:29] I actually spent ten bucks and bought an app for OSX that allows me to paste a scanned copy of my signature into PDFs. Avoids the whole "print out, sign, scan, and send back the PDF issue) [15:30] HR gets their own printer so you don't accidentally find your salaray report in with the TPS reports. [15:30] It's all about your volume. [15:30] devinheitmueller: I've used Xournal and a Wacom tablet to send stuff via e-mail [15:31] snap-l: does that allow you to modify existing PDFs? [15:31] Quite frankly, most of teh stuff that I copied / printed in an office could have easily been a PDF document if the company had laptops. [15:31] devinheitmueller: Yep. [15:31] neato. [15:32] and almost without exception, once the meeting was done, the printout was useless, save for a record of what we covered. [15:33] I love Amazon's reviews of printers. "NO USB CABLE? I PAID $$$ FOR THIS, AND NOW I HAVE TO GET ANOTHER $20 CABLE! HP SUCKS!" [15:33] Yeah, in my case 90% of the stuff I end up having to print are of the variety of "sign this and send it back" crap. [15:33] Never mind that it also has Ethernet [15:34] anyway…. Back to work. bbl. [15:34] laterness [16:41] son-of-a-@#$@#%$@#%@#%@ [16:41] rick_h_: What now? [16:41] "I don't want to do that, it's poor design and usability, leaving the boxes blank is just bad" [16:41] "the client is firm, they want them blank" [16:42] "ok...here you go" [16:42] Monday comes "I don't know that those blank boxes are very obvious what they do, I mean people aren't going to understand how to use them" [16:42] *sigh* [16:42] ummm yea...that's a brilliant idea, we should definitely fix that, sorry for my mistake mr client [16:43] now repeat that with 4 other features and you'll get an idea of the "client requested updates" email I just got in my email [16:43] 4 of the 6 are direct coming back to what I originally implemented/advised and was overruled [16:46] By the client, or coworkers? [16:46] client, email forward from co-workers [16:46] who I gave hell at the time of giving the client what they wanted [16:46] poor nicole was afraid to chat with me [16:47] waited a bit after the email and then IM'd "are you ok?" [16:47] did the client overrule you prior, or was it your coworkers? [16:47] she knows I'm getting beyond annoyed at this [16:47] client [16:47] I originally built it my way, gave it to them to see [16:47] even though co-workers said "They say they don't want that" [16:47] client forced changes to what they wanted, now a week later (and a ton of other changes along the way) they're coming back to original [16:48] Nice [16:48] I swear you have to treat clients like they're 5 when it comes to choices. [16:48] on the one hand, getting what I originally wanted, but at this point I just want to wash my hands of this POS project [16:49] To line up for the next POS project? :) [16:49] Has anyone used virtualenv from cron? [16:49] sure [16:50] just point the cron script to be run at the python in venv/bin [16:50] all done [16:50] snap-l: quit depressing me :P [16:50] ie: how would I run a battery of scripts via cron using virtualenv? workon blah && script && deactivate ? [16:50] no [16:51] rick_h_: Trust me, I've been there with a lot of projects [16:51] Oh, I get what you're saying [16:51] so what I've generally done is create a single master script that loads/runs things [16:51] it'll work that way? [16:51] * snap-l tries an experiment [16:51] then cron is /home/rharding/src/project/bin/python /home/rharding/src/project/scripts/cronish.py [16:51] and done [16:52] NICE! [16:54] It's like magic [16:54] well it's really all a virtualenv is [16:54] a new python binary [16:54] with all python paths/etc there for your use [16:55] shush, let me think it's magic. [16:55] oh right..magic...ooooohhhhhh :) [16:55] but that does answer a lingering question of how virtualenv works [16:55] (which is awesome) [16:57] going to script up some tests to make sure our sandbox is working, and wondered if I could do it via cron [17:10] Something strange is afoot in this house [17:10] Sound on my speakers is crackly. [17:12] Going to scheck if a reboot makes a difference. [17:16] http://etherpad.org/2011/08/22/major-release-etherpad-lite-v1/ [17:20] the demo at the bottom is kind of cool [17:20] replaying the timeline is interesting [17:23] darn, a python question i could've answered and i missed my chance [17:27] man, loving that livereload [17:27] so fun [17:28] i used cronjobs and virtualenvs on dreamhost for barcampgr [17:36] rick_h_: i sat in on a jquery BOF at barcamp and the conclusion they eventually came to was that people are starting to write web apps as an api and a web/mobile frontend. sound familiar? [17:41] no, that's madness :) [17:50] it was pretty interesting to see a totally different group of devs come around to that same conclusion [18:14] http://www.meijer.com/s/big-steals/_/N-5io?icid=hpdsmon <- Hahahahaha [18:14] This looks like one of those stupid cat toys. [18:15] pretty much [18:15] robomob! [18:16] Brilliant. [18:16] i have doghair balls bigger than that thing [18:16] *cough* [18:43] http://brucemanthehero.bandcamp.com/album/awakening-of-a-superhero-chiptune-album [18:44] Love the cover. That is all. [19:16] $25 for a dustmop? [19:23] gamerchick02: No, $25 for a rollyball with a cage [19:23] a rollyball with a clock timer. ;) [19:23] nice. i suppose... [19:23] heh [19:24] stupid question: why do some programs not show up in my unity launcher? [19:24] gwibber is not showing up at all. [19:24] i shouldn't have to restart to have stuff showing up properly. gah. [19:33] You mean the sidebar? [19:33] Gwibber will start up by default, but stays hidden until you bring up that window [19:55] the window is active but there's no gwibber icon in the launcher. [20:04] wb [20:25] good god, i feel like a newb. how the heck can i change my farking clock to get it to show the date and stuff? I've gone into the menu and whatnot, but it won't save. [20:28] farking? Such language. [20:30] yes. [20:31] First off, are you setting the time manually or via the net? [20:31] net. [20:31] install ntp [20:31] i'm in unity, and using the Time & Date settings [20:31] install ntp [20:32] yessir [20:32] done [20:32] OK, it should be corrected [20:32] 4:32pm? [20:33] yep [20:33] Is that what you wanted? :) [20:33] well, i want to show the weekday and month and stuff too [20:33] there's no "save" button on the Time & Date window. >_< [20:34] that should just show up under the Clock tab [20:34] yeah [20:34] it does [20:34] Is it not saving between login? [20:34] i probably should log out and back in again. [20:34] AGAIN. [20:34] bbiab [20:35] np [20:38] it's not saving ANYTHING between sessions. [20:38] i did an upgraded to gnome 3, got pissed, and then did a repo purge on it. [20:38] gamerchick02: OK, I think you may have a bigger problem. [20:38] so... yeah [20:38] You might want to do the following [20:39] 1) Log out of gnome / unity / X [20:39] 2) CTRL-ALT-F1 [20:39] 3) Log into the console [20:39] 4) cd .. (so you should be under /home [20:39] ok [20:39] 5) mv current_home current_home.old [20:39] 6) mkdir current_home [20:40] and at your leisure, copy over the files from current_home.old to the new current_home. [20:40] and copy over the dotfile settings as you vet them to make sure they're OK. [20:40] ah [20:40] ok [20:40] ie .bashrc, .vimrc, etc. [20:41] ok [20:41] wait [20:41] are you comfortable with using cp? [20:41] before i do anything, i'm moving all my files to my external drive [20:41] copy the files, don't move [20:42] ok [20:42] Better to have two backups than one [20:42] yeah [20:42] copy [20:42] rsync. ;) [20:42] yeah [20:42] i'm actually copying over none of the dot files, methinks [20:42] that stuff can all be recreated. [20:43] don't be so sure [20:43] copy it all [20:43] worst case, you won't need them if you copy them [20:43] worst case if you don't copy them is you will [20:44] ah [20:44] debian is looking good to me as a fallback distro [20:44] ok [20:44] everything i've tried in a VM has worked [20:44] :) [20:44] cool, regarding Debian. [20:44] does it have Gnome Shell? [20:46] it does have it, in the experimental repo [20:46] the default gnome is still non-3 [20:46] ok [20:46] fedora is a good distro for playing with gnome shell, too [20:46] i've heard that [20:46] Fab uses it all the time. [20:46] he loves fedora [20:46] fabio? [20:46] Fabsh [20:47] yeah. Fabsh. [20:47] sorry, i thought everyone here listened to linux outlaws. [20:48] Fabsh on identi.ca has turned me off to ever taking that show seriously. [20:48] he's rather outspoken [20:48] That's like saying the pope is rather Catholic. [20:48] well. i was trying to be nice. [20:49] I think he's the first dual-core human being where his mouth works completely independantly of his mind. [20:49] i find them too annoying with little informational content [20:49] hehe [20:49] i get more out of LO than I do a TV newscast, so... yeah. [20:50] gamerchick02: That's not saying much. ;) [20:50] it's actually saying a lot since i pretty much only watch PBS. [20:50] Oh, OK [20:50] ie, the NewsHour. [20:50] I was thinking you were referring to Saginaw and Detroit news. [20:50] i mean, LO covers more stuff I actually give to shits about [20:50] HAHAHAHAHAHA [20:51] the Saginaw News is the biggest waste of paper this planet has ever seen [20:51] the newscasters on TV are pretty much crap too. [20:51] have you seen our local news, snap-l? [20:51] a big fat joke. [20:52] gamerchick02: I've seen news programs outside of Detroit [20:52] i used to watch channel 12, but they've decided to try "investigative reporting" [20:52] well, i never know. :) [20:52] Detroit is a "major market", so we tend to get the higher-paid talent [20:53] but yeah, some of these programs you have to wonder if they shouldn't be covering pork bellies [20:53] meh. money doesn't always buy talent. i watched some of the Detroit news and they were just as vapid as the ones up here. [20:53] Note I didn't say better [20:53] just higher paid. ;) [20:53] "vapid" [20:53] i like that word. [20:53] i hope i get the letters to use it in words with friends [20:53] oh, speaking of, does anyone here play WWF? [20:54] Wordfeud [20:54] android, iphone, facebook? [20:54] Android and iPhone [20:54] also, thinking about rooting le phone so i can get rid of le ads on my apps. [20:54] or something. [20:54] I hopped on that because SOMEONE (jcastro) said it was awesome until EA released the official Scrabble the same week. ;) [20:55]