charlie-tcaGood morning14:47
madnickmorning :)14:54
GridCubegood morning15:00
charlie-tcaI thought we uploaded the new xubuntu-lightdm but I am not seeing it on any tests here15:35
madnickthe new lightdm theme?15:35
madnickNope, we uploaded the new plymouth15:36
mr_pouitI only uploaded what I got (= plymouth theme :p)15:36
charlie-tcaam I mistaken and we aren't using it yet?15:36
charlie-tcaThat explains a lot15:36
charlie-tcaGlad I didn't file a bug for it, too.15:36
madnickI had problems with getting the greeter running on Oneiric, but it seems to work now, but its not yet 100% done15:37
charlie-tcaThen it is just me, huh?15:37
charlie-tcaI will stop looking to see why I broke it, too ;)15:38
GridCubebug 83137015:40
ubottuLaunchpad bug 831370 in oneconf (Ubuntu) "oneconf crashes constantly on xubuntu oneiric " [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/83137015:40
charlie-tcaThat hits every install, and sometimes when I run updates too15:41
charlie-tcaThere is an older bug for it, if I can find it15:41
madnickBtw, todays images drops from install to Desktop, but I think there was an install option on the desktop? :P15:42
charlie-tcaThere should be15:43
knomedoes somebody know if something has been done to the boot menu logo?15:43
madnickI mean, it was possible to install it from there15:44
madnickatleast it started15:44
charlie-tcaknome: Nothing has been done yet.15:44
charlie-tcalow priority15:44
charlie-tcaHow's the website looking?15:44
knomecharlie-tca, imo the logo is highish priority, and it's really easy to do, so it would be a shame if we *still* didn't get the new logo in :(15:45
knomecharlie-tca, the website looks fine. i think i need some time with pleia2 and we're done15:45
charlie-tcaThe logo is not high priority, it is a nice to get it done thing15:45
GridCubeif i dont have a bluethoot device will the bluethoot config fail?15:46
charlie-tcaGridCube: probably15:46
knomecharlie-tca, from my point of view, it's one of the highest priority stuff. we already slacked off a few releases not changing it.15:46
GridCubescrot isnt installed by default15:46
charlie-tcaOkay, mark it high priority for you only15:47
charlie-tcaIt is not a high priority item for Xubuntu.15:47
knomecharlie-tca, i have, and that's why i'm asking about it again and again15:47
charlie-tcaWe have very high importance items to get done. The logo is almost in wishlist as far it goes15:47
knomecharlie-tca, i understand. but don't blame me for asking.15:48
charlie-tcaasking is fine, but pushing it as high is not so okay. It really is not high importance15:48
charlie-tcaI need images that work, and a refreshed website. Those are important to get done15:49
knomein terms of getting the branding up-to-date, the logo is nearly as important as the website. just saying. no need to start arguing about it.15:50
knomeGridCube, wow, the shot looks freaky with twho different terminal fonts/font sizes15:51
GridCubeone is xterm and other is xfce4-terminal15:51
charlie-tcaGridCube: why do you have gnome-control-center installed?15:51
GridCubeits a fresh install15:51
GridCubeits oneiric15:52
GridCubei havent done anything15:52
GridCubei just cliked the bluethoot thing15:52
charlie-tcamr_pouit: do we need that? 15:52
charlie-tcaBluetooth should fail if you don't have the capability, I think.15:52
GridCubeyes i figured that much15:53
charlie-tcagnome-control-center should not be installed for Xubuntu, though15:53
charlie-tcarun apt-cache policy gnome-control-center15:53
GridCubethe warning message was the thing that bothered me15:53
charlie-tcasee if it is installed15:53
charlie-tcaThus the reason for the error. report the warning/crash as a bug then. Make sure to add that about gnome-control-center, usually copy and paste the apt-cache policy stuff15:55
charlie-tcaWe should not get a crash from that15:56
GridCube>ubuntu-bug gnome-control-center15:57
charlie-tcayes, try that15:57
charlie-tcaas to the oneconf bug, can you attach the /var/log/installer logs to it?15:57
GridCubeD: there is no mousepad15:58
charlie-tcaNot sure, but I think that is bug 82875816:00
ubottuLaunchpad bug 828758 in oneconf (Ubuntu) "oneconf-query crashed with DBusException in __new__(): org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.NoServer: Failed to connect to socket /tmp/dbus-rAulHuvLyM: Connection refused" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/82875816:01
jarnosI am offered partial upgrade, but I can not do even that: could not download the upgrades e.g. failed to fetch some python package from http://fi.archive.ubuntu.com/16:08
jarnosWell, maybe I try later.16:17
GridCubesorry /chores16:38
GridCubewhat part of /var/log/installer/ you want?16:39
GridCubeall of it?16:39
charlie-tcaat least syslog16:51
charlie-tcadmesg if it is there, too16:51
charlie-tcaHoping it will show why that oneconf is crashing16:51
GridCubeappended all17:19
GridCubebug 83148817:19
ubottuLaunchpad bug 831488 in gnome-control-center (Ubuntu) "gnome-control-center not found on xubuntu oneiric when launching bluethoot device" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/83148817:19
charlie-tcaHm, apport is not attaching any logs to these bugs17:26
charlie-tcaThat is a problem17:26
GridCubewhat do you need then?17:26
GridCubequadrapassel fails to launch17:27
GridCubebuging it17:27
charlie-tcathe game?17:27
charlie-tcaor maybe still?17:27
GridCubeso i dont bug it?17:28
charlie-tcaever did work last release17:28
GridCubeim lauching everything to see if it works17:28
charlie-tcaattach syslog and dmesg to the bugs17:28
charlie-tcafind them in /var/log17:28
GridCubeto all?17:28
charlie-tcayes, if it doesn't do it, you should. We have to have a log that shows why things fail17:29
charlie-tcaquadrapassel might be regression according to bug 56173417:31
ubottuLaunchpad bug 561734 in mesa (Ubuntu) "quadrapassel doesn't start: Failed to initialise clutter: Unable to select the newly created GLX context" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/56173417:31
charlie-tcaTry in terminal and see what happens. If it gives the same errors, it is a regression17:31
Unit193Quadrapassel = Gnome (Something) and hasn't worked since 6.10 for me really (since it had it's old name)17:33
charlie-tcaOne of those games I try each release... 17:34
charlie-tcaoh, hell17:35
charlie-tcaone of those gnome games broken by the gtk2 to gtk3 upgrades or gnome3 upgrades17:35
GridCubeits the same17:36
GridCubeglx stuff17:36
GridCubei report it again?17:36
charlie-tcafalls under the same bug as solitare won't work17:36
Unit193Err... Not quadrapassel, Same Gnome17:36
GridCubeor just click this happens to me again?17:36
charlie-tcaclick again17:36
charlie-tcaNo point in reporting another bug17:37
charlie-tcaLot of things are still broken by the upgrade; remains to be seen what will get fixed17:38
GridCubeshimmer looks wrong17:39
GridCubei mean greybird17:39
GridCubesee http://imagebin.org/16914917:41
GridCubethe arrows are n ot the same, i think you are giving an old version of greybird17:42
charlie-tcaDid ochosi give us the updated greybird?17:45
* GridCube shrugs17:45
charlie-tcaAs far as I know, he never pushed it into updates17:46
GridCubeoh, well 17:46
GridCubeits not the same im using now, im using his latets :/17:46
GridCubethere dmesg and syslog attached to both bugs 831488 and 83137017:53
ubottuLaunchpad bug 831488 in gnome-control-center (Ubuntu) "gnome-control-center not found on xubuntu oneiric when launching bluethoot device" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/83148817:53
ubottuLaunchpad bug 831370 in oneconf (Ubuntu) "oneconf crashes constantly on xubuntu oneiric " [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/83137017:53
charlie-tcaThank you17:55
GridCubethe amount of udev errors at boot time is increasing17:55
GridCubeusers-admin doesnt work, but you knew that one already17:57
GridCubeno report then?17:59
charlie-tcaThe aisleriot solitair should have failed too17:59
charlie-tcano report needed for users-admin17:59
GridCubethere is no such thing17:59
charlie-tcagood, then we removed it until it gets fixed18:00
ubottu'Nice' is a property of a process that determines how willing it is to give CPU time to other processes.  A higher value makes it more likely to give away time.  A negative value makes it less likely. Values are from -19 to 19, with 0 being the default.  For more information, type 'man nice' at a terminal.18:07
GridCube:| i don't like ff618:09
Unit193What factoid were you looking for?18:09
Unit193I've never used FF6 actually...18:09
charlie-tcasame errors18:09
GridCubeits mozilla chrome18:10
charlie-tcaApparently, some packages are out of date again18:10
Unit193I know what they are doing to it as I'm using FF8 now (Skipped from 5 > 7 back when most people were still using 5 :P )18:10
charlie-tcaAs close as I can guess, they are going to make firefox a nightmare soon. No more version numbers visible to the user, maybe follow in IE's footsteps?18:12
GridCubeif i wanted to use chrome i would use chrome18:12
charlie-tcaI guess I will wait and see what develops from it18:13
Unit193If I wanted to use a crappy browser, I would already be using it18:13
GridCubei will move to another browser soon if they keep pushing chrome down my trhoat18:13
charlie-tcaI did not know mozilla wants you to use chrome18:13
GridCubeplease they are doing everything to be like them18:13
GridCubeup tabs, hidding http and "highlighting domains"18:14
GridCubeone single menu for everything, no options18:14
GridCubechanging version numbers so no addon can work18:14
Unit193Hiding http isn't nice, but highlighting the domain part doesn't bother me18:15
GridCubeyeah i could live whit that18:15
GridCubebut if i have a blog, my blog name will be greyed out and the server will stand out18:16
Unit193Tabs are not on top with me, there are multi menus, but the version numbers are getting a little out there...18:16
GridCubewell i give firefox a pro point on that, they let you revert most of the things they do18:16
GridCubebut its kind of annoying, that in every update i have to go arround looking for ways to "undo" stuff they did18:17
Unit193Tip: status-4-ever18:17
GridCubei know about that, but its ridiculous 18:17
GridCubethat now, you need an addon for something that should be there to beging whit18:17
GridCubealso thats other thing they took from chrome18:18
Unit193Yes it should stay as default, they are changing some things that I wouldn't, and don't, want changed18:18
madnickthank god for Firefox 1.518:18
madnickbest version :) it had all that stuff18:19
Unit1933.6 still gets updates though18:19
GridCubei still use that 18:19
Unit193I must give them that FF8 seems a bit faster18:19
GridCubeon this box, its the main reason why i don change 10.0418:19
Unit193(Faster than FF&)18:19
madnickFirefox renders my raycasting faster than Chrome ^^18:20
GridCubealso since ff6 update on my work's machine it hangs every 40 minuts, clock18:20
charlie-tcaXubuntu community meeting in #xubuntu-devel in 40 minutes. Everyone is invited to attend. Agenda is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings18:20
Unit193Wow, didn't even remember that was today...18:21
charlie-tcafinally! a reminder that gets noticed ;)18:29
Unit193I'm always glad to get them! I just used to not be able to make it (The reason I can now is sad, but works)18:30
mr_pouitmaybe we shouldn't use the gnome bluetooth thing19:00
mr_pouitblueman was working pretty well last time I checked19:00
mr_pouit(and I don't think it needs gnome-control-center)19:00
charlie-tcaThat could well be, but we are getting that same outdated packages error on a lot of things19:00
charlie-tcamr_pouit: you ready for the meetingt?19:01
charlie-tcaI am all for getting rid of gnome-??? as much as we can, since they seem to want to pull in so much most of the time.19:01
meetingologyMeeting started Mon Aug 22 19:02:01 2011 UTC.  The chair is charlie-tca. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.19:02
meetingologyUseful Commands: #topic #action #link #idea #voters #vote #chair #action #agreed #help #info #endmeeting.19:02
GridCubemeeting time?19:02
charlie-tca[TOPIC] Agenda for today's meeting:19:02
meetingologyTOPIC: Agenda for today's meeting:19:02
charlie-tca* Old business19:02
charlie-tca* Team updates19:02
charlie-tca  * Packaging & Development19:03
charlie-tca  * Bug Triage & Testing19:03
charlie-tca  * Website & Marketing19:03
charlie-tca  * Artwork19:03
charlie-tca  * Documentation19:03
charlie-tca* Announcements19:03
charlie-tca* Governance structure19:03
charlie-tca* Any Other Business19:03
charlie-tcaReminder:   please use ".." on separate line when you've finished typing.   If someone wants to comment during the updates, please "o/", so we know to wait.19:03
charlie-tcaThe agenda is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings19:03
charlie-tca[TOPIC] === Old Business ===19:03
meetingologyTOPIC: === Old Business ===19:03
charlie-tcageany has a delay when trying to use the right click menu19:03
charlie-tcaGridCube to put together the "TOP 10" for Xubuntu - In-work19:04
charlie-tcaIf anyone has something in particular they think should be in the list, please tell GridCube 19:04
GridCubehard week19:04
charlie-tcaso, slow progress?19:04
GridCubeno progress, hope to get it done this week19:04
charlie-tcaThank you, GridCube 19:05
charlie-tcaYour efforts are apreciated!19:05
charlie-tcamadnick to look into building a lightdm greeter - In-work19:05
GridCubeoh yes telling me its cool, its hard to see what its important to add19:05
charlie-tcamadnick: how we doing?19:05
madnickDoing OK, the greeter itself works19:05
madnickIts not finished, but the problem i have is with --test-mode )19:06
madnickBut I hope to be done by this week19:06
charlie-tcaMaybe they broke that mode now?19:06
charlie-tcamr_pouit: what's the latest date we have to be done by?19:06
madnickMaybe, It just twitches and dies and no logs on it19:06
mr_pouitUI freeze is on next thursday iirc19:06
charlie-tcaso, we need to get lightdm in by the 25th19:07
charlie-tcacharlie-tca to start a release checklist page for Xubuntu19:07
charlie-tcaI forgot19:07
charlie-tcawill get this going this week19:07
OlbiHello all :)19:08
charlie-tcaHello, Olbi 19:08
GridCubehello Olbi 19:08
charlie-tcaWelcome to the Xubuntu Community Meeting19:08
charlie-tcaAny questions on old business?19:08
charlie-tcaany old business we missed?19:08
GridCubenot that i recall19:08
GridCubethats pretty much done19:09
charlie-tca[TOPIC] === Team updates ===19:09
meetingologyTOPIC: === Team updates ===19:09
charlie-tca[TOPIC] ==== Packaging & Development ====19:09
meetingologyTOPIC: ==== Packaging & Development ====19:09
charlie-tcamr_pouit: ??19:09
mr_pouitGridCube: question?19:10
GridCubewhat happened to mousepad and scrot19:10
mr_pouitmousepad has been replaced by leafpad19:10
GridCubeoh.. i see. ok.19:10
charlie-tcaThey broke mousepad bad for us19:10
xrdodrxmousepad doesn't even function properly for me in natty :/19:10
mr_pouit(mousepad is supposed to be a better fork of leafpad, but mousepad isn't well maintained currently, and leafpad has some activity upstream, and uses teh gtk+ printing api)19:11
GridCubeokay 19:11
GridCubeand scrot?19:11
mr_pouitwas it in the default package set?19:11
mr_pouitI don't think so19:11
GridCubedunno, in today test install it wasnt there19:12
charlie-tca!info scrot19:12
ubottuscrot (source: scrot): command line screen capture utility. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.8-13 (natty), package size 15 kB, installed size 72 kB19:12
charlie-tcawas missing from Accessiories?19:13
GridCubethe problem is that using print screen key doesnt work if you have the panels locked, so19:13
GridCubewhen you want to screenshot something that hangs the panels., like an error you have to launch it from a terminal19:14
GridCubeand scrot is faster to write than xfce4-screenshoter19:14
charlie-tcawe have never installed scrot by default19:15
mr_pouitGridCube: really? printscreen should call the xfce4-screenshooter binary, not the panel plugin, so it should work afaik19:16
mr_pouitif it doesn't, please file a bug19:16
GridCubeno keybinging work if a panel is open 19:16
GridCubelike configuration or something like that19:16
GridCubeit never did19:16
mr_pouitah, yeah, because it gets the focus19:16
GridCubeif you launch the start menu, forget about keybindings19:17
mr_pouit(and grabs the keyboard, etc. like when a menu is opened)19:17
GridCubeyes that19:17
Olbimaybe shutter? http://shutter-project.org/19:17
xrdodrxwhat is the benefit of locking the panel?19:17
Olbiis better than scrot :]19:17
mr_pouitI think it's a problem (or call that a design choice) of gtk19:17
charlie-tcanah, it just takes installing scrot19:17
GridCubeand launching scrot is faster, i could xfce4-sc[tab][tab] but is faster to scrot19:17
charlie-tcamr_pouit: what about seeding scrot? Is it possible?19:18
GridCubenevermind i though it was on previous versions19:18
xrdodrxGridCube, xfce4-screenshotter is part of default xfce19:18
xrdodrxscrot is a command line application19:18
xrdodrxi don't think we want to replace something graphical with something command line19:18
GridCubei must have installed it back in the day on 10.04 19:18
Olbiscrt will be very usfell, specially when u are tested livecd19:18
xrdodrxespecially since new users aren't going to want to open a terminal just to take a screenshot :\19:19
mr_pouitcharlie-tca: daily alternate/i386 is already oversized by ~300k, I'd like to avoid that19:19
charlie-tcagood enough19:19
Olbiso for graphical take shutter, and for cmd scrot19:19
charlie-tcaif a user really wants it, they should install it then19:19
GridCubeno, as i said, i though it was there back on 10.04 but i must have installed it myself19:19
charlie-tcaIt really is a matter of the number of letters needed to run the app19:19
xrdodrxGridCube, create an alias19:19
Olbixubuntu is for devel or fo users?:P19:20
charlie-tcaXubuntu is for users. We do what is best for the user, almost all the time.19:20
xrdodrxecho 'alias sshot="xfce4-screenshotter"' >> ~/.bashrc19:20
GridCube:P it would be faster to launch xfce4-screenshoter that create an alias and then launch it, so never mind19:20
Olbimaybe script for xfce4-screenshoter ?19:21
charlie-tcaThe point was, whether in live session or installed session, scrot is faster to type the xfce4-screenshooter19:21
Olbiwhich will be called screenshot?19:21
xrdodrxbut just hitting the prntscrn key brings up xfce4-screenshotter19:21
charlie-tcaIt doesn't matter which one he uses, they both will do the same job for it.19:21
xrdodrxthis wouldn't work with scrot since scrot is command line19:21
beardygnomei came in late so sorry if i'm back tracking here, but are keyboard shortcuts broken in oneric?19:22
charlie-tcaokay, let's continue with the meeting.19:22
GridCubeyes please19:22
charlie-tcano, you can't use them when a panel app is hung19:22
charlie-tcamr_pouit: do you have a developer update today?19:22
charlie-tcafloor is your's19:22
mr_pouitOkay, so, last week, xubuntu-default-settings was updated to set the default session & greeter for lightdm \o/; some xubuntu-artwork uploads for the plymouth themes (more to come when madnick and knome are around at the same time); I fixed the build failure of abiword, and micahg fixed some package conflicts (the gtk themes have been moved from xubuntu-artwork to murrine-themes).19:22
mr_pouitYesterday I dropped "de" language packs from i386 daily live to make it fit again in 700M (it wasn't in amd64, only in i386 because "we're supposed to have much free space there" :/).19:23
knomemr_pouit, what do you need from us? :)19:23
OlbiI think abiword isnt good ass default aplication for text writing19:23
mr_pouitknome: the 16b theme support :p19:23
knomemr_pouit, okay, i've provided the files for madnick19:24
madnickexcept the logo! :P19:24
Olbimaybe install by default writer and calc only? they arent so hardly for systems :P19:24
knomethere you go19:24
madnickoh okay :)19:24
charlie-tcaOlbi: can it wait until we get to Other?19:24
Olbicharlie-tca: ok19:25
charlie-tcaThanks, mr_pouit. You guys stay pretty busy, I am glad you are on top of things19:25
mr_pouitno, thank you ;-)19:26
charlie-tcaknome, madnick : that is the last thing for lightdm, right?19:26
mr_pouitno more questions?19:26
madnickcharlie-tca: for plymouth19:26
ubottuUbuntu bug 831488 in gnome-control-center (Ubuntu) "gnome-control-center not found on xubuntu oneiric when launching bluetooth device" [Undecided,New]19:26
charlie-tcamr_pouit: maybe-ubiquity is just the app that takes the cd menu away19:26
charlie-tcawe still need to update the logo for the menu19:26
knomecharlie-tca, this was for plymouth. if we have some time, i'd actually want to talk about a few minor issues in lightdm19:27
charlie-tcawell, doesn't take it away, but hides it from the users19:27
knomecharlie-tca, the UI freeze is on WED, so we need time until tomorrow noon to make absolutely last minute changes?19:27
mr_pouitcharlie-tca: yeah, all other variants/derivatives/<whatever you call them> use it, don't they?19:27
charlie-tcaIt gives Ubuntu the "install now"  and "try now"  menu late in the boot process instead of the cd menu19:27
charlie-tcaI don't remember if they all use it.19:28
charlie-tcaYou want the menu hidden?19:28
charlie-tcaI will have it activated if we do want it.19:28
charlie-tcaShouldn't take effort here, installer does it all19:28
charlie-tcabut I still need to get the logo on the menu updated, since pressing a key gives the user the same menu we have19:29
mr_pouitI recall it was a bit nicer, but I didn't use an ubuntu/kubuntu iso for a long time ;>19:29
charlie-tcaI will tell them do it to us19:29
knomeo/ i'm just having a talk with NCommander on the livecd menu logo19:29
mr_pouitokay, if it's too risky, we can delay that for O+119:29
charlie-tcaknome: lightdm?19:29
knomeno, before that19:29
charlie-tcaUI freeze is at August 25, 2011 at 21:00 UTC19:30
knomeoh, so aug 24 is the last day to submit things?19:31
charlie-tcaSo, Thursday about 1 and a half hours from now19:31
knomewell, the wiki said last minute updates should be made 1 day earlier19:31
charlie-tcaPreferred to get things in wednesday, yes19:31
knomemadnick, do you have some time today?19:32
madnickI guess sleep will have to wait until friday :|19:32
madnickknome: yes19:32
knomemadnick, takes maybe 15mins, or at most 3019:32
charlie-tcaAny questions on development and packaging?19:32
charlie-tcaknome: you got the logo update handled?19:32
knomecharlie-tca, i'll try to do that, if at all possible, but i think yes'ish19:33
GridCubecharlie-tca, today's bug?19:33
charlie-tcaYou had some lightdm things to discuss?19:33
GridCubeisnt for packaging?19:33
charlie-tcaGridCube: mr_pouit got a handle on that already19:33
mr_pouitcharlie-tca: knome: thank you for the boot menu and logo "investigations" ;-)19:33
knomecharlie-tca, with madnick, we'll handle those after the meeting, just some final tweaks for the artwork19:33
knomemr_pouit, no problem sir ;)19:34
charlie-tcaThank you, knome 19:34
knomemr_pouit, i'll let you do the technical part though19:34
mr_pouiteww :p19:34
charlie-tcamr_pouit: you are most welcome. Glad we finally got one19:34
charlie-tcamadnick, knome : ubuntustudio might want to discuss lightdm themes too19:35
charlie-tcaThey are trying to figure out how to do what you did!19:35
knomecharlie-tca, probably better to ask madnick about the code19:35
charlie-tcaI will tell them, if madnick is okay with that?19:35
* astraljava hails charlie-tca re: studio - lightdm19:36
charlie-tcamadnick will be happy to explain what he did19:36
charlie-tca[TOPIC] ==== Bug Triage & Testing ====19:37
meetingologyTOPIC: ==== Bug Triage & Testing ====19:37
charlie-tcaTesting is slow. We need to get on top of it again. We do have a tracker for daily testing at:19:37
astraljavaYep, thankfully, work slows down a bit, so I'll have more time for that.19:38
charlie-tcaThat's better19:39
charlie-tcamr_pouit: Do we need a separate bug report for each application giving us fails with the stuff at https://launchpadlibrarian.net/77809901/Captura%20de%20pantalla%20-%20220811%20-%2012%3A22%3A14.png19:40
Unit193I have both images now for today19:40
charlie-tcaWe have several apps failing for the same things not updated?19:40
OlbiI will try to help with testing from tomorrow :]19:41
mr_pouitcharlie-tca: it should be a transient issue19:41
mr_pouitI think they were updated tomorrow, so maybe they have not propagated to all mirrors?19:41
charlie-tcaOkay, more reasons to keep up with the daily testing19:41
charlie-tcamr_pouit: I get them from main19:41
charlie-tcaoh, nm19:41
charlie-tcaWe just have to keep checking to see if they fixed this week19:42
mr_pouite.g. https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/oneiric-changes/2011-August/007395.html19:42
Olbiwhere I can get daily images?19:42
ubottuPlease read the channel topic whenever you enter, as it contains important information. To view it at any time after joining, simply type /topic19:42
GridCubei've done tests today19:42
charlie-tcaOlbi: http://cdimages.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/19:42
GridCubethis week i can do a few more, everyday hopefully19:43
charlie-tcaGridCube: updated the spreadsheet?19:43
Olbicharlie-tca: thx very much19:43
charlie-tcaOlbi: you are welcome19:43
charlie-tcaAny other questions for testing?19:43
charlie-tca[TOPIC] ==== Website & Marketing ====19:43
meetingologyTOPIC: ==== Website & Marketing ====19:43
charlie-tcapleia2 and knome : your turn please19:44
pleia2website is looking good :)19:44
pleia2knome has updates19:44
knomecharlie-tca, we're forwarding the code to IS today19:44
charlie-tcaI hear good things!19:44
knomecharlie-tca, once i get there19:44
pleia2IS will need to do code review for the theme and plugin, hopefully it won't take long19:44
pleia2once that's done we'll be able to work on the staging server, moving all content over19:44
charlie-tcaPeople are expecting more news and information about Xubuntu. Any ideas?19:45
Olbicharlie-tca: agree19:45
knometry to make the blog more open to new contributors than it is now19:45
charlie-tcawhat blog?19:46
charlie-tcathe news area?19:46
knomewell, the xubuntu website "blog"/news19:46
Olbisite is good, but it need some local transaltions :]19:46
knomeyes, as discussed earlier19:46
knomepleia2, crap, translations19:46
knomepleia2, let's add them later19:46
charlie-tcaWe need to be telling people they can submit articles anytime they want. 19:46
charlie-tcabut we won't ever have everyone entitled to upload, I don't think19:46
Olbimaybe news about new programs from xfce mailing lists?19:47
pleia2we'll need to talk to someone who knows more about translations, I don't know best practices for this19:47
charlie-tcaOlbi: any idea how to do the translations?19:47
Olbicharlie-tca: thinking :)19:47
Olbicharlie-tca: what framework is used for site?19:47
knomepleia2, there is a good plugin for WP for translations19:48
Olbiknome: good :]19:48
pleia2knome: ah, nice19:48
charlie-tcaObvious, I guess... ML should have reminders about articles and where to submit them ?19:48
Olbiso we are at home19:48
knomepleia2, http://wpml.org/19:48
Olbiwe need testing page for transaltions19:49
pleia2the translations bug report is here, so if people have thoughts: https://bugs.launchpad.net/xubuntu-website/+bug/79760019:49
ubottuUbuntu bug 797600 in Xubuntu Website "Impossible to translate the Xubuntu website" [Undecided,Confirmed]19:49
knomeoh wait, that says "purchase" ? hmm, need to investigate :|19:49
knomepleia2, http://wpml.org/purchase/non-profits/ too19:49
charlie-tcaContinuing on then, 19:50
charlie-tca[TOPIC] ==== Artwork ====19:50
meetingologyTOPIC: ==== Artwork ====19:50
charlie-tcaI don't see ochosi back yet. 19:50
charlie-tcaknome: any update?19:50
knomeabout what exactly?19:50
charlie-tcado you know what happened to the greybird updates for Oneiric?19:50
pleia2knome: can you add the nonprofit link to the bug report so we remember it?19:51
charlie-tcaThere were some being done, but we seem to have lost them19:51
knomepleia2, sure19:51
charlie-tcaWhen will ochosi be back?19:51
Olbiartwork is great, but I think theme from official Ubuntu is so good :]19:51
knomecharlie-tca, probably tomorrow for a while. he doesn't have a shell right now, but email works19:51
charlie-tcaworries me that we lost those upgrades to greybird19:52
knomethey are most probably in github anyway19:52
charlie-tcaOkay, any other questions / comments for website, marketing, artwork?19:52
OlbiI saw in some themes that characters are seen after changing19:53
charlie-tcaright, knome. I think that is where those of us that got them went19:53
knomei'll get the livecd menu image changed19:53
charlie-tcaanything specific, Olbi ?19:53
Olbicharlie-tca: I  have to check it one more time to say which19:54
Olbicharlie-tca: and what19:54
charlie-tcafile bugs on the themes that it happens in?19:54
charlie-tca[TOPIC] === Announcements ===19:54
meetingologyTOPIC: === Announcements ===19:54
charlie-tca * The next meeting will be on Sunday, 2011-08-28 at 22:00 UTC19:55
charlie-tca * Important dates coming up:19:55
charlie-tca  * 11.10 BetaFreeze: Aug 25, 2011 at 21:00 UTC19:55
charlie-tca  * User Interface Freeze : August 25, 2011 at 21:00 UTC19:55
charlie-tca  * 11.10 Beta1: September 119:55
charlie-tca  * 11.10 Release Date: October 13, 201119:55
charlie-tca  * UDS-P will be in Orlando, Florida the week of October 31 - Nov 4. Please apply for sponsorship by August 24.19:55
charlie-tca  * UDS-P information at http://ubuntu-news.org/2011/07/15/ubuntu-developer-summit-sponsorship-now-open-2/19:55
charlie-tcatwo days left to apply for UDS sponsorship19:55
charlie-tcaNote the UI freeze and beta1 freeze!19:55
charlie-tca[TOPIC] === Any Other Business ===19:55
meetingologyTOPIC: === Any Other Business ===19:55
charlie-tca * Blueprints19:56
charlie-tca  * We should blueprint at least for default applications19:56
charlie-tcamr_pouit: I think we should at least blueprint and have one uds session for default apps19:56
charlie-tcait would eliminate the time gap we have now deciding what is going to stay and what is going to change19:57
Olbiso when will be official blueprint for 11.10?19:58
Olbimy bad, sorry :P19:58
charlie-tca11.10 will be released in October.19:58
mr_pouitif you think so (I'm not sure we've _that_ many apps we want to change, so maybe blueprints are overkill ;-)19:58
astraljavaI'm guessing charlie-tca referred to next devel cycle.19:58
charlie-tcaLet's think on it, anyway. It would help get us some recognition from the Ubuntu side of things, too.19:59
GridCubeoh o/19:59
GridCubegreybird isnt updated19:59
GridCubein oeneric19:59
charlie-tcaochosi will be back tomorrow, hopefully, and can push the updates in to mr_pouit 19:59
charlie-tcaOlbi: you wanted to discuss abiword?20:00
GridCubehe might have to check whats happening whit gtk320:00
charlie-tcaThis is the time for it20:00
GridCubei get warnings from it all the time in oneiric20:00
knomeafaik, the freybird gtk3 theme is still WIP :|20:01
mr_pouit(for thursday, we've got to sort out the plymouth 16bit theme fallback, the lightdm greeter, and the greybird update ;p)20:01
GridCubeI, for one, support abiword20:01
knomeplymouth and lightdm are ready today20:01
charlie-tcamadnick: gonna get a new tar file to mr_pouit today?20:01
* GridCube thinks we shouldnt even pack ristretto20:03
madnickcharlie-tca: yes20:03
knomei don't agree with GridCube. there was a discussion about this earlier, and we decided to keep ristretto.20:03
madnickhowever, since mr_pouit already packaged it, perhaps its better to use send the affected files?20:03
charlie-tcaristretto's memory consumption has been fixed now20:03
GridCubebut it doesnt add up nothing gThumb doesnt do better20:04
charlie-tcamr_pouit: new complete tar or just the changes?20:04
GridCubeanyway, thats my opinion20:04
mr_pouitmadnick: what you prefer20:04
charlie-tcaOlbi: Why do you think abiword is not good?20:04
madnickmr_pouit: okay20:05
knomeGridCube, there is going to be lots of updates to ristretto soonish, and as it's an "xfce" app, i'd like to prefer it ti gthumb. the improvements won't make it into oneiric, but it's more consistent to keep ristretto for this release too, if we're going to drop gthumb in the next.20:05
GridCubei understand that20:06
knomegood. that was pretty much the only reason to keep ristretto20:06
charlie-tcaremains to be seen if we want ristretto or gthumb in the lts, I guess20:06
knomeyes, exactly20:06
mr_pouitI've a patch ready to plug some memleaks20:06
knomebut ristretto should be good :)20:06
GridCubeif ristretto could add text yes i would choose it over anyother20:06
charlie-tcayes, that ristretto developer worked hard to patch the leaks.20:06
mr_pouit(I committed it to the debian packaging, but I haven't uploaded yet)20:07
charlie-tcaGridCube: put in a wishlist for it?20:07
GridCube(if it would actually figure out that im opening a folder whit lots of fimages too, it doesnt do that now on oneric)20:07
charlie-tcaokay, anything else we need / want to discuss?20:07
GridCubenot from me20:07
charlie-tcamr_pouit: will those patches make oneiric?20:07
Olbisorry for afk20:08
charlie-tcaBeta1 is next week! Let's get a good writeup with all the changes for it, please!20:08
mr_pouitcharlie-tca: yeah, I'll try to upload soon20:08
Olbicharlie-tca: Abiword isnt so popular20:08
charlie-tcaAbiword has most of the functionality of openoffice / libreoffice writer20:09
knomedo we want the glowy logo, or the logo with white and blue on the bootmenu (remember the BG is just pure black)20:09
charlie-tcaIt just takes a lot less memory and drive space20:09
Olbiin my work when we print in one year we have only 2 documents good that I know format of this word processor20:09
Olbimy mates doesnt know that :P20:10
knomewhite+blue is better for 16bit, because there we don't have the possibility to probe for bitdepth20:10
Olbithey know only odf formats20:10
charlie-tcaknome: probable white+blue then?20:10
GridCubeOlbi, you can choose to save documents in other formats beside abw20:10
knomecharlie-tca, okay, good20:10
Olbibut it isnt 100% compatybility with ODF :20:10
charlie-tcaYou should be able to save as .odf, can't you?20:11
charlie-tcaoh, and libreoffice is?20:11
Olbii was checking formating 10 times and allways have problems with it20:11
knomeif you definitely need to have better support for ODF, it's not too hard to install libreoffice from the repositories20:11
Olbiespecially when trying edit documents from Writer :)20:11
charlie-tcaThe abiword developers will try to fix those things, if they know about them20:11
Olbibut marketing is crap :]20:12
charlie-tcamarketing is difficult, but that has nothing to do with quality of use20:13
OlbiI know that they want better and better, but users prefer app which is more popular and they were teached in school20:13
charlie-tcaWell, I think we should end the meeting, anyway. We can discuss the pros and cons of abiword outside the meeting20:14
Olbiok, we close taht20:14
charlie-tcaUm, do they teach anything except microsoft applications in school?20:14
Olbithey teach both MS and LO :D20:14
charlie-tcaSo, a simple "sudo apt-get install libreoffice-writer" should take care of it20:15
Olbino :)20:15
Olbiyou only take english version of it :]20:15
charlie-tcaWhether we install it or you install it, it is installed20:15
Olbiand others plugins and translates u have to search :]20:15
Olbiit isnt like Windows version :]20:16
charlie-tcaso, if it is installed instead of abiword, it is the same, right?20:16
charlie-tcaThis isn't windows, but if you file bugs, things get fixed. Nothing happens if a bug didn't get filed.20:16
charlie-tcaThanks, everybody, for participating in the meeting.20:17
Olbido as you want, staying with abiword doesnt help LO be more popular in schools and houses20:17
charlie-tcamadnick: astraljava wants to talk about lightdm coding20:17
charlie-tcaSorry, we are here to market libreoffice.20:17
knomeare we?20:18
astraljavaYep, madnick, if you have time, could you skip over to #ubuntustudio-devel, please?20:18
charlie-tcaThat is not for us to do. We would prefer users just use Xubuntu, and if they desire libreoffice, they should install it.20:18
charlie-tcayes, knome 20:18
madnickastraljava: could i please do it after i fix the plymouth theme? it only take a lil bit20:18
Olbiwe want all less popular of MS programs :D20:18
astraljavamadnick: I'm in no hurry. Don't know how falktx has time, but by all means. Thanks!20:19
charlie-tcaand abiword is not MS. But we are not going to switch applications just to market something else. That is for libreoffice to do, not Xubuntu.20:19
meetingologyMeeting ended Mon Aug 22 20:19:51 2011 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot . (v 0.1.4)20:19
meetingologyMinutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2011/xubuntu-devel.2011-08-22-19.02.moin.txt20:19
madnickastraljava: ask him, if its super important i could come, but i rather get everything done first :\20:19
madnickon plymouth20:20
charlie-tcaOlbi: I don't think Xubuntu is really interested in trying to market libreoffice. That is a bit outside the goals of the distribution20:21
GridCubeyes libreoffice is too much for xubuntu20:21
astraljavamadnick: He says no worries.20:22
madnickokay super :)20:22
astraljavaThanks a bunch!20:22
astraljavacharlie-tca: Thanks for the meeting! I'll concentrate on studio stuff for tonight, but will continue testing tomorrow.20:22
Olbithank ypu very much20:23
charlie-tcaThanks. Yes, you need to concentrate on studio a bit20:23
charlie-tcaUI freeze applies to that too, on thursday20:23
charlie-tcaOlbi: you are welcome. feel free to come back if you have more questions.20:23
charlie-tcaWe will meet again on Sunday at 22:00 UTC20:24
OlbiI will :D20:24
Olbiso I try to create some manual abut how to install LO Writer and Calc with all needed extensions :]20:25
charlie-tcaThat would be terrific, too!20:27
madnickoh wow that logo is huge20:29
knomemadnick, just tell me what size you need?20:29
madnickknome: same as the plymouths current which is 241x8820:30
knomeminus the glow?20:30
madnicki think so20:30
knomemadnick, http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/oneiric_plymouth/logo_16bit.png, better?20:33
madnickthat works :) but this will take a while it aligns wrong20:34
madnickacctually it will take quite a while20:34
madnicknothing :)20:35
madnickknome: thing is20:35
madnickthe original logo is 241x88, anything else will align wrong20:35
* knome gets back to working on other artwork stuff20:35
knomei can add padding for the new logo too20:35
knomebut that's so easy you can do it yourself too :)20:36
madnickill see if i can do it :)20:36
knometell me if you need help20:36
madnickthats perfect :)20:38
knomepushed and proposed merge to get the xubuntu logo updated in the livecd menu20:45
charlie-tcaGuess I will go shopping20:45
charlie-tcaThanks, knome 20:45
charlie-tcaAssuming everything starts working right, this will be a really good release. All updated artwork, great theme, great website, etc.20:46
Unit193charlie-tca: When you have time to waste, ping me? (few questions I would like to have answers to, but not sure what channel or if I should PM to ask :/ )20:47
knomeUnit193, is it about testing or something else?20:48
madnickoh noes20:50
madnickthunar died on transfer :(20:50
knomemadnick, mmh?20:50
knomemadnick, just ping me when you've sorted everything else out. i have some improvement suggestions for lightdm :))20:50
Unit193knome: It's more about Xubuntu, but.... I don't want to sound like a huge idiot in logged channel (Or even more of one ;P)20:50
knomejust shoot. there is no stupid questions20:51
Unit193Yes there are.  What is the point of Xubuntu? What is the reason it exists? It used to be the lightweight one, but it's not exactly lightweight and Lubuntu is much more lightweight (Don't misunderstand, I love Xubuntu and use it, I just don't know what it's goal IS)20:53
knomexubuntu is actually getting more light opposed to gnome again20:54
madnickmeetingology: http://www.madnick.se/~madnick/xubuntu/16bit.tar.gz20:54
meetingologymadnick: Error: "http://www.madnick.se/~madnick/xubuntu/16bit.tar.gz" is not a valid command.20:54
madnickmr_pouit: 20:54
knomebut that's not the only point, we also strive for userfriendliness and accessibility.20:55
knomeUnit193, ^20:55
madnickknome: lightdm: shot!20:55
Unit193knome: True, but I don't know what the updated goal is :/20:55
knomemadnick, well, ochosi wanted some improvement for the icons on top right, so i'll provide you new versions of those soonish20:55
madnickoki :)20:56
knomemadnick, also, something needs to be done for the log in button20:56
knomeit's weird being inverted versus everything else20:56
madnickJust give me graphics/ideas :P20:57
madnickok astraljava where was this meeting?20:57
knomeyeah, i'll have to think about those. just wondered if YOU had something ;)20:57
madnickim not sure i can answer something the documentation doesnt20:57
astraljavamadnick: #ubuntustudio-devel, but stay put, I'm afraid falktx dropped off for some reason20:57
astraljavaAhh, there he is again.20:58
madnickastraljava: okay, cool, ill join in a sec :)20:58
madnickwow im stressed now :)20:58
knomewelcome to the club20:58
madnickTo make things even worse; i have to give a little talk about raycasting tomorrow, and im prepared 0%, thus: i will not sleep :D20:59
madnickastraljava: i dont understand, they want to change to the default greeter? thats it?21:01
astraljavamadnick: Umm... you guys are not using unity, right?21:02
madnickWe are using a custom :)21:02
madnickGTK greeter21:02
astraljavaYeah, we don't either.21:02
astraljavaWe need to create a fast one, not too fancy, but something that resembles our existing theme.21:03
astraljavaWe're way behind, I know.21:03
astraljavaLots of reasons for that.21:03
madnickI could link what I've used as reference, but it feels wierd just randomly linking stuff into the channel :)21:04
astraljavaOh, no, not at all. Examples are just fine.21:05
astraljavaWe're not expecting you to do that for us. :)21:05
knomemadnick, guess what? you get more icons where you need the 16bit versions ;)21:10
madnickdear god :P21:11
knomeoh wait21:11
knomedon't pull those 16bit versions yet21:12
madnickknome: before you do any more work, im not 100% sure i will *make* this deadline21:12
madnick2 days21:12
madnickAnd thats has to be tested and done21:12
knomethat isn't a lot, the icons are all 32×32! 21:12
knomeand they are just replacements21:12
knomeyou can just change the image files21:12
knomei wouldn't want to make you do any more work :)21:12
knomethere you go!21:13
madnickknome: leave them online please :) ill save them soon, but i need to reboot for a kernel update21:14
knomeanything i've uploaded will be there at least all the way up to oneiric release21:15
knomeunless they are completely useless ;)21:15
knomemadnick, got an idea for the login button. make the textbox bg's more transparent (and the text maybe a bit lighter than in http://www.madnick.se/~madnick/xubuntu/xubuntu-greeter-draft8.png (if that's the final rev)), then copy the same style to login button, but make the bg less transparent, thus a bit darker21:18
knomemadnick, as in http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/oneiric_lightdm/shot_20110823.png21:21
knomemadnick, (forget the arrows)21:21
knomemadnick, and add some more vertical padding to the button. maybe make it twice compared to draft821:22
knomeafter that, i think we are pretty much done21:22
knomeoh wait21:22
knomedid you already make the logo be 16bit in lightdm?21:23
knome(when needed)21:23
knomebecause if not, then ignore the 16bit icons too.21:23
knomeif you are going to do that, then use the icons too.21:23
knomeshort break, brb21:25
knomehey vinnl!22:45
vinnlHey knome :)22:45
charlie-tcaHello, vinnl 22:45
vinnlHi charlie-tca :)22:45
charlie-tcaKeeping busy?22:46
knomecharlie-tca, https://launchpad.net/xubuntu-website-wordpress and it's bzr branch are ready for the review22:46
vinnlHere and there, yes :)22:46
charlie-tcaTerrific, knome 22:48
charlie-tcaNow if we just get IS to do it quickly, right?22:48
knomepleia2 is to mail them today22:48
pleia2oh yes, I'll do that now :)22:49
madnickknome: 23:01
knomemadnick, 23:01
madnickhow is that for login button?23:02
knomegood. now just bump the lightness of the text in the button and the textboxes a bit up!23:02
micahgmr_pouit: so, technically, the definition of oversized changed to 703MB, but the live page wasn't updated, so if we're 300k over 700MB, I think we're ok23:54

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