=== dendrobates is now known as dendro-afk
=== asac_ is now known as asac
=== ScottK2 is now known as ScottK
=== aldeka_ is now known as aldeka
=== FourDoll1rs is now known as FourDollars
linux_is_my_heromy cups client computer sees the shared printer on the cups server, but when attempting to print, the job is sent and nothing happens.03:23
=== bkerensa_ is now known as bkerensa|laptop
=== bkerensa|laptop is now known as bkerensa_
=== dendro-afk is now known as dendrobates
pittiGood morning05:39
=== htorque_ is now known as htorque
=== fasta__ is now known as fasta
=== SWAT__ is now known as SWAT
andy753421I have a package and two dependency packages which are new to ubuntu that I would like to file a feature freeze exception for. Should I submit one bug on launchpad for all three packages, or three separate bugs?07:11
micahgandy753421: I'd suggest using requestsync -e to file the requests and mention the main bug in the ones for the dependencies07:14
micahgandy753421: and the dependencies in the main one07:14
gesermicahg: wouldn't it be better to only have one bug? as either all 3 packages go in or none?07:16
=== smb` is now known as smb
micahggeser: well, if there are problems with any of the packages, it could get messy07:17
* micahg should state that he is not a release team member07:18
dholbachgood morning07:19
geserbut you could see that in the one bug and don't sync the other parts by missing to check all three bugs07:20
gesergood morning dholbach07:20
dholbachhey geser07:20
micahggeser: if sponsors aren't reading the bugs , don't we have bigger problems?07:21
gesermicahg: true07:21
pittidear LP, please stop timing out; love, pitti07:23
pittiI wish the timeout would be raised at least for launchpadlib07:24
pittiscripts keep breaking because of it :/07:24
geserdholbach: I was visiting FroSCon this weekend and saw an interesting talk about "Perceptions of rudeness in Free Software communities" (http://programm.froscon.org/2011/events/717.html). The study was done on some Ubuntu forum threads. The talk was recorded but the recordings aren't online yet.07:24
micahgpitti: file bugs and sic bryceh on the LP team :)07:25
pittiit times out during searchTasks(), and I'm trying to run the retracer to reduce that very number of searchTasks() results :)07:25
dholbachgeser, thanks a lot for the pointer - I'll check it out07:26
brycehpitti, yeah the lplib timeouts have been annoying me as well07:26
pittiunfortunaetly there is no "limit" argument for searchTasks(), that'd be sufficient for me07:26
brycehif you ever find an oopsid, file a bug report on it; they always automatically set those to critical07:26
pittix-lazr-oopsid: OOPS-2062O1907:27
pittiah, nice, it's part of the exception07:27
pittiwill do07:27
lifelesswe'll probably move that to X-Oops-Id: soonish07:27
lifelesspitti: we need to talk about apport & crash dump formats at some point. Maybe in 3-4 weeks?07:28
pittilifeless: sounds good07:28
lifelesspitti: searchTasks when you're iterating on a big set can end up with things that take *minutes*: raising the timeout there would have a very negative effect on LP as a whole07:28
pittilifeless: do you know a workaround?07:29
pittilifeless: something that just gives me the first 75 or 50 results or so?07:29
lifelessdon't iterate the entire batch :)07:29
lifelessresult = searchTasks()[:75] ?07:29
lifelessanyhow, adeuring is -very- close to having something that will handle offsets much much better07:30
lifelessit won't fix plain-poor queries but it will help large batches quite a bit07:30
pittilifeless: [:75] is too late, though -- searchTasks() itself times out, not the iteration over the result07:33
lifelesspitti: that means the first batch is failin07:34
lifelesswhat are you searching for ?07:34
pittilifeless: reproducer in bug 83256607:36
ubottuLaunchpad bug 832566 in Launchpad itself "often times out on searchTasks()" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/83256607:36
pittix-lazr-oopsid: OOPS-2062O1907:36
pittiessentially: lp.distributions('ubuntu').searchTasks(tags='need-amd64-retrace')07:36
lifelessthats a dupe07:37
lifelessits utterly buggered :(07:37
pittilifeless: seems I can work around it by using "created_since='2011-08-01'", and then working my way backwards07:40
=== rickspencer3_ is now known as rickspencer3
=== tkamppeter__ is now known as tkamppeter
=== mpt_ is now known as mpt
andy753421micahg: does this look alright? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/83261109:05
ubottuUbuntu bug 832611 in Ubuntu "Sync aweather 0.5-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,New]09:05
=== dholbach__ is now known as dholbach
andy753421i forgot the -e flag, so i added ubuntu-release manually afterwards..09:10
Laneyyou should request those other syncs which need doing first separately09:42
Laneyah, you did :-)09:48
cjwatsonjanimo: have you actually uploaded livecd-rootfs 2.32?  I don't see it in LP, but the branch is tagged11:25
cjwatsonoh, maybe I'm just impatient.  /me recalculates timezones11:25
janimocjwatson, yes, uploaded a few seconds afetr bzr push11:26
janimocjwatson, is there a recommended sequence? The other presumably :) ?11:26
ricotzjanimo, hello, could you take a look at the armel build of cogl? of course the configure-flags arent right yet http://anonscm.debian.org/viewvc/pkg-gnome/packages/experimental/cogl/debian/rules?r1=29484&r2=29483&pathrev=2948411:26
ricotzjanimo, forgot this link https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/cogl/1.7.6-1/+build/273960711:28
janimoricotz, I know we had issues with clutter in Ubuntu because of the backends11:28
janimofor some reason I thought cogl was part of clutter source11:28
ricotzjanimo, i cant build it myself11:28
ricotzthe cogl lib was split out from clutter11:29
ricotzand is now a dependency of it11:29
janimoI know with clutter we were waiting for an upstream fix that adds proper runtime backend selection (GL/GLES)11:29
janimothe patches in clutter were always messy11:29
janimoas we needed GLES/EGL to act as if it were GL/GLX but only at the .so naming level, even if the lib itself at the source level had certain assumtions - include file names IIRC11:30
ricotzjanimo, i removed quite all ubuntu patches for clutter since they were obsolelete or consider not-needed by upstream11:30
cjwatsonjanimo: no no, don't worry, you did it right, I just miscalculated the timezone and thought you'd uploaded an hour or more ago11:30
cjwatsonjanimo: push before upload is correct11:30
janimoricotz, if they are obsolete that is great - if it means it builds fine with GLES2 on arm11:30
cjwatson(or rather, thought you'd tagged an hour or more ago)11:31
ricotzjanimo, yes, so that is why the configure flags specific for armel11:31
janimocjwatson, ok. UDD still confuses me, and actually this was the first time I got it done with a single bzr uncommit. I am almost conversant in UDD now :)11:31
ricotzjanimo, it would be great if you could testbuild it with the changed configure-flags11:32
janimoand one bzr tags --delete, oh well11:32
ogra_hmm, are environment variables not handed through from toplevel to bottom in live-build ?11:32
cjwatsongenerally should be11:32
ogra_i added FLASH_KERNEL_SKIP=1 to the config a while ago, but flash-kernel is still executed11:32
ogra_argh !11:33
janimoricotz, sure, I'll test and see if I find the issue11:33
cjwatsonyou forgot to export it11:33
ogra_thinko ! ... update-initramfs is run chrooted11:33
cjwatsonhowever - they aren't passed into the chroot11:33
ricotzjanimo, i could do it myself if there is a easy way to set up some armel-thing with qemu-system-arm?11:33
cjwatsonI already abandoned that solution to that problem11:33
ogra_no, i export it, but it doesnt seem to be hadned over by the chroot cmd11:33
cjwatsonI thought I'd fixed it for you some other way11:33
ricotzjanimo, thanks11:33
cjwatsonI definitely remember looking at that and I'm sure I ticked it off my list11:34
ogra_well, i'll think about it, we werend in massive need of it until now11:34
ogra_with the mx5 artch showing up it will try to update the buildd bootloader now though11:34
cjwatsonyes, I fixed it with a diversion in live-build11:35
cjwatsonyou might like to investigate why that isn't working11:35
ubottuDebian bug 630350 in live-build "divert flash-kernel aside while building the chroot" [Normal,Fixed]11:36
cjwatsonit's possibly because lb_binary doesn't call lb_chroot_dpkg (and probably shouldn't) - I suggest you talk with Daniel Baumann about the best place for that diversion to go11:37
cjwatsona diversion is definitely a better way to handle this than an environment variable11:37
cjwatsonogra_: incidentally, you really don't export it, I checked, although that's irrelevant :)11:38
ogra_cjwatson, oh, a diversion wont work anymore11:38
cjwatsonit should do, it's just done in the wrong place ...11:39
cjwatsonI suspect, anyway.  I bet update-initramfs is being called in the lb binary phase?11:39
ogra_its called from some lb_chroot_hacks script11:39
ogra_pretty ugly that there is no function for it or some such11:39
cjwatsonthe diversion I added is in place when lb_chroot_hacks runs.11:40
cjwatsonlb_chroot does (among lots of other stuff) lb_chroot_dpkg install; lb_chroot_hacks; lb_chroot_dpkg remove11:41
cjwatsonlb_chroot_dpkg adds the diversion on install and removes it on remove11:41
* ogra_ checks the logs again, i'm probably looking in the wrong place11:42
ogra_bah, i indeed looked at a different update-initramfs call11:43
ogra_the one in the hack script doesnt spill the error11:43
cjwatsonwhere's the other call?11:45
ogra_its manually added for ac100 in the build script in livecd-rootfs, i just need to make sure to export it inside the chroot call ...11:47
ogra_that shouldnt be an issue, sorry for the noise, that was really silly11:47
cjwatsonright, easy to add for that one case then11:48
pittiDaviey, RoAkSoAx: powernap currently wants to go to universe, is that intended?11:48
cjwatsonplease remove it from live-build/auto/config again to avoid anybody being confused into thinking that works11:49
ogra_yep, will do11:49
pittiDaviey, RoAkSoAx: it's also uninstallable in main right now, don't know yet why11:49
Davieypitti: No, I've made RoAkSoAx aware.. and we are currently looking at directly seeding or making it a depends.11:50
pittiDaviey: ok, thanks11:50
=== MacSlow is now known as MacSlow|lunch
Davieypitti: I'd rather keep the seed minimal and rely on depends for that.11:51
pittiDaviey: well, powernap at least sounds like the kind of "top level pacakge/feature" which are appropriate for seeds11:51
pittibut your call11:51
jbichacjwatson: can I just remove the webbrowser dependency completely? a browser is kind of assumed these days11:52
Davieypitti: Yeah, previously it was included as it was a required depends of eucalyptus, the same requirement hasn't yet been added to openstack.  So really, i wouldn't be too upset if it was demoted - but the fact that next cycle it will hopefully bounce back to required, makes it silly to demote IMO.11:54
pittiDaviey: right, we just need something to hold it in main, so seeding seems appropriate11:54
Davieypitti: ok, i'll add it now.11:55
cjwatsonjbicha: no, packages must depend on anything they need outside the Essential set, and a browser is not Essential11:56
cjwatsonjbicha: the fixed version should only be two characters away from your initial MP11:56
jbichacjwatson: ok11:57
bdrungjelmer: i saw that you moved everything to lptools. when will you release lptools? the u-d-t branch pull will depend on the release of lptools.12:23
bdrungjelmer: let me know if you need a review of that package and a debian sponsor.12:24
=== renate is now known as glatzor_u
jelmerbdrung: I mainly need to coordinate with lifeless, who is the package maintainer of lptools in Debian12:26
Laneybdrung: jelmer is a dd ;-)12:26
bdrungi wasn't aware that lptools is available in debian12:31
cjwatsonScottK: any luck with the k3b libav patch?12:35
ScottKcjwatson: I didn't hear back.  Let me ping my tester again (I'm in a $WORK meeting all day today with no DVD player handy).  Thanks for double checking.12:36
jdstranddo any of you filter 'Branch linked' emails from launchpad? what are you looking at?12:39
bdrungjelmer: packaging-dev 0.2 uploaded (which recommends lptools)12:41
jelmerbdrung: awesome, thanks :)12:42
bdrungjelmer: now it's time for you to make it worth recommending ;)12:42
jelmerbdrung: :) I'll talk to lifeless about lptools in Debian this evening12:44
=== amitk_ is now known as amitk
jdstrandI think I might be able to use a combination of 'X-launchpad-bug-modifier: Launchpad Janitor (janitor)' and 'Message-id: ...@ackee.canonical.com>', but that seems both brittle and perhaps too heavy-handed...12:45
bdrungjelmer: can you update the branch for u-d-t?12:46
jelmerbdrung: to mention what we've just discussed you mean?12:52
bdrungjelmer: to remove the last three moved tools.12:54
* jdstrand attempts http://paste.ubuntu.com/673796/12:55
pitti  o scapy: python-scapy13:07
pitti    [Reverse-Depends: powerwake-common]13:07
pittiDaviey: ^ ah, that's why it's uninstallable13:07
pittiDaviey: universe dependency13:08
Laneyjdstrand: a bug asking for a header might be useful ;-)13:09
Laneyor a more descriptive From: or whatever13:09
jdstrandLaney: yes13:13
janimoricotz, it builds fine with that config option change, but at .deb creation it fails in dh_makeshlibs. That in turn is easily fixed by foloowing what it suggests.13:16
janimowhere should I file the bugreport and the diff? Or shall I upload?13:16
=== MacSlow|lunch is now known as MacSlow
mdeslaurpitti: what releases are we still running retracers for?13:19
pittimdeslaur: right now, oneiric; once that has caught up, I'll configure it for lucid/maverick/natty as well13:20
pittimdeslaur: it's now dead cheap to do so, but retracing the oneiric ones is more urgent at this point13:20
roadmrgstreamer pipelines that used gconfaudiosink no longer work as this is not installed by default on oneiric, the obvious replacement (gsettingsaudiosink) is in gstreamer-plugins-bad and thus also not installed by default, will either one of these be included in the default install eventually?13:20
mdeslaurpitti: ah, ok, thanks!13:20
pittimdeslaur: as the reports deterioate fast (unlike the stable ones)13:20
* jdstrand files bug requesting 'X-launchpad-bug-branch-linked' (or similar) in bug 83275313:20
ubottuLaunchpad bug 832753 in Launchpad itself "please add email header for "** Branch linked..." emails" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/83275313:20
mdeslaurpitti: thanks for fixing the oneiric one btw :)13:20
pittijdstrand: actually, filtering these out wouln't be hard, but it's nontrivial to filter emails which *only* have that message without anything else13:21
pittimdeslaur: my pleasure; was a 13 hour hack session yesterday to rewrite them, but I'm quite pleased with them now; it's sooo much easier13:21
pittimdeslaur: in bug 832740 I also asked to get the new goodness into oneiric13:21
ubottuLaunchpad bug 832740 in apport (Ubuntu) "FFE: chroot-less apport-retrace" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/83274013:21
jdstrandpitti: yes-- I was trying to avoid a body search13:22
jdstrandand this is also why my current attempt is putting them in a folder, rather than deleting them :) I have no idea if my current recipe is too heavy-handed13:22
seb128roadmr, -gconf should be installed by default since gnome-media depends on it13:22
roadmrseb128: oh, let me check again then, thanks for the heads-up!13:23
seb128roadmr, it's on the manifest of the daily livecd build13:25
roadmrseb128, you're right, it's there. I just hadn't checked recently. Thanks and apologies, I should check things are still bad before asking :)13:25
seb128roadmr, no worry ;-)13:26
janimoricotz, uploaded, thanks for the fix13:28
ricotzjanimo, thanks, to oneiric?13:31
ricotzjanimo, alright, i will add your changes to debian later for a 1.7.6-213:33
Davieypitti: ah13:39
janimoricotz, yes, oneiric13:40
pittiev, cjwatson: today's desktop CD boots straight into the live session, whereas previosu versions defaulted to the "install / try" dialog from ubiquity; is that intended or a bug?13:41
evpitti:  /var/log/installer/dm might have the error13:42
pittiok, step 2: make kvm not freeze the guest when booting it13:42
pitti(EE) Failed to load module "vmwgfx" (module does not exist, 0)13:46
pitti(EE) vmware: Please ignore the above warnings about not being able to to load module/driver vmwgfx13:46
pitti(EE) open /dev/fb0: No such file or directory13:46
pittiev: ^ is the /dev/fb0 error relevant?13:46
pittiafter that I see two DBUG statements for launching the a11y bus, then it ends13:46
evnot to my knowledge13:46
evanything in syslog or /var/log/installer/debug?13:46
pittihttp://paste.ubuntu.com/673825/ -> syslog; v/l/i/debug doesn't exist13:48
tseliotcjwatson: is there a way to see if I blacklisted a card correctly in grub-gfxpayload-lists? (e.g. in some logs)13:48
pittiev: actually I was trying to reproduce bug 831884 ; maybe that's related somehow13:48
ubottuLaunchpad bug 831884 in lightdm (Ubuntu Oneiric) "lightdm fails to start on Live CD on intel: [drm] failed to set drm interface version (plymouth race ?)" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/83188413:48
evpitti: anything in /var/crash? :)13:52
pittiev: oha :) _usr_bin_ubiquity-dm.0.crash13:53
pittithat _might_ be related :)13:53
evpitti: :-P13:53
kirklandpitti: hey, did you guys get PowerNap seeded?13:53
pittikirkland: hey, how are you?13:54
pittikirkland: Daviey said he was going to13:54
pittiev: bug 83006113:54
ubottuLaunchpad bug 830061 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Oneiric) "ubiquity-dm crashed with AttributeError in run(): 'Pixbuf' object has no attribute 'render_pixmap_and_mask'" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/83006113:55
kirklandpitti: hey man, good!  yourself?13:55
pittisplendid, thanks!13:55
cjwatsontseliot: you can run whatever the hwmatch command is by hand and look at the exit code13:55
Davieypitti: kirkland thinks it's a desktop problem, suites me :)13:55
evpitti: thanks13:55
cjwatsontseliot: if you don't have access to the machine, there are no logs - grub doesn't write to the filesystem13:55
pittiev: should've looked first, sorry for bothering13:55
evpitti: no worries at all; glad to help13:55
tseliotcjwatson: and that hwmatch command is run by grub, isn't it?13:59
tseliotcjwatson: I'm asking as I can't see anything in the grub-gfxpayload-lists package which could do it14:03
cjwatsontseliot: yes14:08
smoseranyone have thoughts on how i can create a static executable of http://paste.ubuntu.com/673848/ .14:09
smoserif I do so with simple 'gcc -static' the executable is 700k.14:10
tseliotcjwatson: that's exactly what I was looking for. Thanks a lot14:10
smoseri just need to be able to make that ioctl call in a limited busybox environment (ie, no perl or python)14:10
pittiev: it seems the ubiquity window grew recently? starting it on a 1024x600 netbook doesn't work well any more, the bottom button bar is missing and there is no way to resize it14:12
evpitti: indeed, I've noticed that as well.  It's on my list of things to fix14:13
pittiah, good; thanks14:13
evalt + click and drag for the meantime14:13
smoserdoko_, might you have thoughts on above ? slangasek ?14:15
cjwatsonsmoser: might it be easieer to fix busybox?14:15
smoserbusybox *does* have what i need.14:15
smoserbut ttylinux doesnt build with it, and i'm just re-bundling ttylinux. i wanted to avoid rebuilding it.14:16
slangaseksmoser: what do you mean, "Build with it"?14:20
slangasekit seems like if buysbox's ip implementation already supports this, then you're set14:21
slangasekas for the size of static builds, no idea except for running 'strip'14:22
smoseryeah, strip -s ran14:22
slangasekand building with -Os14:22
smoserbusybox already supports the 'ip' command, but the busybox built for ttylinux does not have that enabled. i'm really just stealing their root and re-purposing.14:23
smoseri dont want to re-build their entire distro or busybox if i can avoid it.14:23
smoseri was hoping someone woudl point me at an easy to use pre-built uclinux tool chain14:25
smoseror some other trvial solution.14:26
ogra_arent we actually using klibc's ip command in the initrd ?14:26
smoseri dont know. all my ubuntu initrds have busybox14:27
ogra_they also have klibc :)14:27
ogra_but i messed that up, it was ipconfig klibc delivers, not ip14:27
smoseri didn't realize klibc provided binaries. i thought just "kernel libc"14:28
ogra_klibc-utils provides binaries iirc14:29
smoseryeah. i see that now.14:30
=== tkamppeter_ is now known as tkamppeter
slangasekinfinity: any idea if the new ghc6 makes https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/haskell-lexer/1.0-2build1/+build/2548362 any more likely to succeed if retried?14:57
cjwatsonslangasek: ghc6->ghc surely ...14:58
cjwatson(though OK, having looked at that log I don't know)14:59
slangasekah, it's no longer 6, is it, ok :)15:00
infinityslangasek:no idea, and stuck on a mobile phone in a doctor's office. :)15:04
=== doko_ is now known as doko
dokoSweetshark, will you one more LO upload before the beta freeze?15:05
cjwatsonSweetshark: it'd be good if you could look over the entries in http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/nbs.html where libreoffice binaries are depending on binaries that are no longer built from source, and see if any of your dependencies need tidying up15:07
SpamapSanybody know why mdadm has *no* udd branches at all?15:11
DavieySpamapS: yes15:13
DavieySpamapS: http://package-import.ubuntu.com/status/mdadm.html , and know you know aswell :)15:14
Davieynow you*15:14
SpamapSThats what the computer knows. Please translate to *human*.15:15
slangasekinfinity: i.e., "no idea sent from my iphone"?15:16
* SpamapS has become woefully dependent on using branches15:16
DavieySpamapS: bug #248459 seems to be as far as it got.15:17
ubottuLaunchpad bug 248459 in Ubuntu Distributed Development "bzrlib.errors.DuplicateKey when importing debian" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/24845915:17
Sweetsharkdoko: Im trying to get one out.15:17
dokojtaylor, could you keep the bug task and set it to invalid, so that I still the report for the package?15:18
tjaaltoncjwatson: you didn't happen to push the recent grub-gfxpayload-lists natty upload to bzr? I've one more device id to add to the lenovo blacklist15:25
jtaylordoko: you mean keepass2?15:27
dokojtaylor, yes15:28
jtaylork set to invalid15:28
dokoSweetshark, please apply my armel hack, if you don't have time for a proper solution15:28
SpamapSIs it ok to use /run directly in oneiric BTW?15:29
SpamapSSpecifically in initramfs scripts15:30
cjwatsonSpamapS: yes, but follow the dependency rules in http://wiki.debian.org/ReleaseGoals/RunDirectory15:31
SpamapScjwatson: ty thats what I needed15:32
cjwatsontseliot: lp:~cjwatson/ubuntu/natty/grub-gfxpayload-lists/natty-proposed - that'll have to do15:32
dokoSweetshark, hmm, maybe better remove the .so explicitly15:32
tseliotcjwatson: oh, nice, for the SRU15:34
SpamapSAlso, is it acceptible to just add -Wno-unused-but-not-set-variable to CXFLAGS to work around bug 829463? Seems like this late in the game introducing a big patch would be a folly.15:35
ubottuLaunchpad bug 829463 in mdadm (Ubuntu Oneiric) "mdadm version 3.1.4-1+8efb9d1ubuntu5 failed to build in oneiric" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/82946315:35
Sweetsharkdoko: that patch looks strange, why the added make call?15:36
dokoSweetshark, I did say `hack', not `patch'15:37
dbarthdoko: ping, looking for a power user who can bump the score on https://launchpad.net/~unity-team/+archive/compiz-testing/+builds?build_state=pending15:37
Sweetsharkdoko: yes, but still:why?15:37
dokoSweetshark, to install the linker script15:38
cjwatsonSpamapS: or nuke -Werror from orbit15:38
dokodbarth, done15:39
SpamapScjwatson: it really is the only way to be sure.. :)15:39
cjwatsonSpamapS: although, yes, IMO killing the specific warning is acceptable too15:39
seb128doko, can you score https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/+archive/ppa/+sourcepub/1909476/+listing-archive-extra as well? thanks15:39
dokofyi, test rebuild on amd64 is done15:40
dbarthdoko: danke sehr!15:41
dokoseb128, done15:41
seb128doko, thanks15:41
dokoSweetshark, ahh, I should check the return code from the first build ...15:44
Sweetsharkdoko: my approach was: it seems the only reason those files are there is to unprelink them if they are prelinked, so as we are not prelinking anything on arm, not putting any files in the solver should work, shouldnt it?15:46
dokoSweetshark, sure15:46
Sweetsharkat least sal builds fine without them15:46
dokoSweetshark, we don't prelink on ony arch15:46
mtayloranybody around who deals with wiki.ubuntu.com - I'm looking at openid integration with login.ubuntu.com on another moinmoin wiki15:53
Davieymtaylor: #ubuntu-website is probably where you want, and isd is the team.15:56
mtaylorDaviey: ah sweet. thanks15:56
mtaylorDaviey: and I just sent you a (very long) email15:56
tseliotslangasek: hi, I've just requested an SRU for nvidia-common in Natty (bug #825259). This should save us a few crashes on dist-upgrade. The sooner the package gets in, the better.15:58
ubottuLaunchpad bug 825259 in nvidia-common (Ubuntu Oneiric) "File "/usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/NvidiaDetector/nvidiadetector.py", line 87, in __get_value_from_name v = int(name) - ValueError: invalid literal for int() with base 10: '173-updates'" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/82525915:58
Sweetsharkdoko: attach'ed a simpler and a bit cleaner patch to the bug16:00
dokoSweetshark, thanks, could you start a build on davis?16:04
Sweetsharkdoko: I tried to, but got lots of 404s when trying to install deps :(16:04
Sweetsharkdoko: Ill try again later.16:05
apwcjwatson, is there are recipe for regenerating the casper initramfs correctly using initramfs tools ... i am trying to test a change in the compcache stuff16:05
dokoSweetshark, running sudo apt-get update && dist-upgrade usually works. if not, ping the vanguard16:06
Sweetsharkdoko: thanks for the tip, Ill give it a try.16:06
cjwatsonapw: install casper, update-initramfs -u16:07
cjwatson(perhaps in a chroot ...)16:07
dokoapw, could you make sure that the kernel header issue is fixed in the next upload? leading to build failures16:08
Laneycjwatson: a shiny new hat for you to wear? grats :-)16:08
apwcjwatson, ahh sensible yes16:08
apwdoko, there is a kernel header issue ?16:08
apwdoko, got a bug # ?16:08
dokoapw, bug #82437716:09
ubottuLaunchpad bug 824377 in linux (Ubuntu Oneiric) "ftbfs on i386" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/82437716:09
seb128doko, https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/+archive/ppa/+sourcepub/1909617/+listing-archive-extra please, and I'm done for today :-)16:11
dokoseb128, done16:12
apwdoko, it would be helpful to include the ftbs link16:13
cjwatsonLaney: it's got a D on it16:14
Laneyand a lovely swirl16:14
apwdoko, can you point me at the rebuild archive (i assume that is where this failure is)16:17
dokoapw, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+archive/test-rebuild-20110816/+build/269443316:19
=== beuno is now known as beuno-lunch
=== dendrobates is now known as dendro-afk
OdyXtkamppeter: m2300w uploaded to Debian included most (if not all) your changes.16:28
apwslangasek, about?  you helped do the multiarch conversion on the kernel headers.  am trying to work out how the include paths are modified for a build when multiarch is in play16:30
slangasekapw: on the phone, but what's the issue?16:32
apwslangasek, i have a build which includes asm/posix_types.h (i believe) and that is found in /usr/include/i386-linux-gnu/asm/posix_types.h just fine.  it includes "posix_types_32.h" which then fails, this file is in the same directory16:34
apwnote is uses the #include "x" syntax16:35
slangasekapw: is this a kernel build failing?16:35
slangasekshouldn't be if it's looking at /usr/include, yah?16:36
apwslangasek, this is a gnat compilation, it is using the linux-libc-headers (which are multiarch now), includes something which #includes <linux/posix_types.h> which in turn includes <asm/posix_types.h> which works, which in turn includes "posix_types_32.h" which does not16:38
apwwhere the last two are in the same directory16:38
apwso in part i am trying to work out how it even finds the asm stuff, i am presuming that we have -I/usr/include -I /usr/include/<multi-arch-tuple> on the default options ?16:39
slangasekapw: right, I think doko was looking at the gnat issue already - it's because of the use of #include "posix_types_32.h" instead of #include <asm/posix_types_32.h>, combined with a particular cpp option that gnat is passing16:40
slangasekthe /usr/include/, /usr/include/<multiarch> are the built-in gcc/cpp path16:41
apwslangasek, ok so this combination works ok in the normal run of the mill compilations, so as you say it must be gnat specific16:41
apwslangasek, what option is it using?16:41
dokono, it's specific to -I-16:41
slangasekbut gnat is passing the -I- option that causes "" #includes to *not* use the default behavior of looking in the same directory as the parent include16:42
apwok which means what ?16:42
apwand we think its reasonable for us to cope with that ?16:42
slangasekapw: the kernel headers should work even when -I- is used - i.e., all includes should be #include <path/header.h>, not #include "header.h"16:42
apwwell it'd have saved me a bunch of time if any of this was in the bug16:43
=== dendro-afk is now known as dendrobates
apwslangasek, thanks for the help, will go poke it16:45
slangasekapw: ok, thank you :)16:45
slangasekapw: fwiw, seems there are only two affected headers: unistd.h, posix_types.h16:46
tseliotslangasek: are you ok with my changes ^^16:46
slangasek(grep '#[[:space:]]*include[[:space:]]\+"' /usr/include/i386-linux-gnu/asm/*)16:46
slangasektseliot: sorry, missed the highlight!  let me see16:47
apwslangasek, will have a poke about, we'll need to get this mantra fixed upstream16:47
tseliotslangasek: thanks16:47
slangasektseliot: this is the SRU that's been uploaded?16:50
tseliotslangasek: yes, the nvidia-common in natty-proposed is the one I mentioned in my SRU request16:54
slangasektseliot: the upload seems to include changes unrelated to this bug (e.g., the multiarch class) - that doesn't appear to be consistent with the SRU rules16:58
slangasektseliot: could you please cherry pick the upgrade-breaking bugfix?16:58
tseliotslangasek: I had thought about doing that but ok. Do you mind if I also disable the kernel hook and the debconf interface (to be sure that the fix covers all cases)?17:00
=== _LibertyZero is now known as LibertyZero
tseliotslangasek: the actual fix is just two lines of python code but I'd really feel more comfortable having these 2 things disabled/removed too ^17:02
tseliotthis is the python fix: https://github.com/tseliot/nvidia-common/commit/fb38f30927173e45ead1c3d45afe6548d66c8eb117:03
SpamapSHrm.. sponsor-patch should be able to figure out that I want to sign things with my default key..17:04
Drakeson[rant] Has this lightdm thing heard of a cursor?  [I feel better now!]17:05
tseliotslangasek: and the other two changes that I mentioned are: https://github.com/tseliot/nvidia-common/commit/1cdb3ea13d912a9d28793d978c3173a8cb47a67d and https://github.com/tseliot/nvidia-common/commit/c025b9a57d0d2b2d93360ecc2b4ec8837db7a40017:05
slangasektseliot: for removal of obsolete config files, we normally want to preserve any local changes the user might have made; unless there's a specific reason you believe no one would ever care about keeping a copy of local changes they might have made to this script, please see dpkg-maintscript-helper(1)17:10
slangasek(and please pay close attention to the pre-depends: requirement if you use this interface)17:11
slangasektseliot: what's the rationale for getting rid of the debconf interface?17:11
slangasekpitti: it is incredibly frustrating that a bug filed 16 hours ago has been closed invalid by the retracer because "some outdated packages were installed on [my] system at the time of the report".17:12
slangasekpitti: actually, it seems most of what it complains about is *debugging symbol packages* being out of date - are we having a ddeb problem? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-settings-daemon/+bug/832454/comments/517:13
ubottuUbuntu bug 832454 in gnome-settings-daemon (Ubuntu) "gnome-settings-daemon crashed with signal 5 in xkl_process_error()" [Undecided,Invalid]17:13
seb128slangasek, well it's the reality17:13
tseliotslangasek: it was meant to deal with the transition from some rather old nvidia driver packages (back when we still used diversions instead of alternatives) to new package names when users dist-upgraded from the command line. Now I don't think we need it any more. The debconf interface simply warned users when the old package were still installed17:14
seb128slangasek, no we don't, we just got a new gnome-settings-daemon between the time you sent your bug and the retracing17:14
tseliotI didn't know dpkg-maintscript-helper though...17:14
slangasekseb128: we got *lots* of new things between the time it was sent and the time the retrace happened; a 16-hour queue for retracing doesn't seem unrealistic even under normal circumstances, and having the retracer throw it out instead of pulling the old binary to get a backtrace makes for a really poor experience, especially on a bug like this that has literally been happening on my system daily for the past month17:19
slangasekI understand the need to turf bugs that you're not going to get to, but the retracer's current behavior effectively makes it a waste of my time to file these with apport instead of getting the backtrace myself17:20
slangasekanyway, there's also the output there saying that dbgsym packages are out of date, which is worrisome17:20
broderi thought that there was no way to get ddebs for superceded packages17:21
=== beuno-lunch is now known as beuno
slangasekI don't think the ddeb archive is even that smart - I thought it expired ddebs based on age17:22
slangasek(it really needs to get integrated into LP...)17:22
* slangasek upgrades gnome-settings-daemon, so that the next time it crashes he has a shot at getting it retraced17:23
tkamppeterOdyX, thanks. About which of my changes are you in doubt whether you have included them?17:24
tseliotslangasek: but, if you prefer, I'll pull in only the 2 lines fix. We're still going to get some unexplainable crashes when the kernel hook (and its debconf interface) kicks in though.17:25
slangasektseliot: it's fine to include those, just please use dpkg-maintscript-helper to properly dispose of the conffile17:27
broderslangasek: that can't be right - there are still packages in the ddebs archive from the lucid release pocket17:27
tseliotslangasek: ok, please reject my upload and I'll correct my changes tomorrow. Thanks for your help17:28
slangasektseliot: done, thanks17:30
slangasekbroder: perhaps I was misinformed then17:30
stgraber@pilot in17:39
=== udevbot changed the topic of #ubuntu-devel to: Alpha 3 released | Archive: Feature Freeze | Development of Ubuntu (not support, not app development) | build failures -> http://bit.ly/or6CHJ | #ubuntu for support and general discussion for hardy -> oneiric | #ubuntu-app-devel for application development on Ubuntu | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment | See #ubuntu-bugs for http://bit.ly/lv8soi | Patch Pilots: stgraber
stgraberPlease note that I'm unfortunately quite busy with other things (getting Edubuntu in shape by tomorrow) so I'll do my best to go through the queue today or tomorrow morning (splitting my shift in two).17:40
stgraberIf you have anything you want to see reviewed very quickly, please feel free to ping me on IRC and I'll stop doing Edubuntu stuff and process it immediately. Thanks!17:40
=== dendrobates is now known as dendro-afk
=== dendro-afk is now known as dendrobates
mterryIs anyone particularly familiar with trapping TERM signals in sh?18:36
brodervaguely? what are you trying to do?18:37
mterryI've got an sh script that traps TERM and echos, and works when I send the signal from within the script, but sending the signal in a different terminal just gets dropped (doesn't end, doesn't echo)18:37
mterrybroder, see for example, http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/67403818:39
brodermterry: i think it doesn't catch the signal until the sleep returns18:39
broderi was just testing an ~identical script, but mine was just sleep 518:39
broderi bet sleep is a bash builtin?18:39
broderhmm, maybe not18:40
mterrybroder, if I change sleep to something like, xterm, same behavior18:40
broderif you close the xterm, does it get the signal?18:40
mterrybroder, yes.  Also if I press ctrl+c (which is also trapped for testing), it will get the 'queued' TERM18:41
infinitymterry: I'm assuming it works if you TERM the sleep instead of the shell?18:44
infinitymterry: Oh, or not.18:46
mterryinfinity, yeah, nope18:46
brodermterry: it kind of looks like it might just be a limitation in bash's signal handling18:46
broderit's probably a reentrancy issue18:46
infinityOh, no, that's just cause sleep doesn't die on TERM. :P18:46
apwdoes anyone know if it is safe to install grub2 into a chroot18:47
mterryinfinity, mine did (note that my sample script will loop again and start new sleep if it's killed).  I also tried with xterm, same result (it dies, but script doesn't catch signal)18:47
mterrybroder, so you're thinking trapping TERM in sh just won't work?  (note that dash and bash both seem to have this bug then -- I tried both)18:48
brodermterry: i think it won't work until the child process exits18:48
infinityAnyhow.  A shell's only job when you run a foreground command is to waitr for it to exit.18:49
infinitymterry: What you want to do for that sort of job control is background your processes and then wait on them.18:49
infinitymterry: Then the shell is "active", and can process your signals.18:49
broderinfinity: i tried stracing the shell. the wait4 call is interrupted, and then there's an rt_sigreturn call, then it goes back into wait418:50
infinityRaplacing the while loop with:18:50
infinity  sleep 60 &18:50
infinity  wait18:50
infinityDoes as mterry wants.18:51
infinity(ie: the parent shell will now process SIGTERM)18:51
broderis it relevant whether the shell has the controlling terminal?18:51
mterryinfinity, ah, yes.  thanks!  I think that's what I want18:51
infinitybroder: Nope.18:52
infinitymterry: Keep in mind that if your TERM handler is exiting the shell, it will happily leave the children running, so you need to clean them up too.18:53
infinitymterry: But every time you background a process, you can grab the PID and keep track of them for such control.18:53
mterryinfinity, yes, thanks18:53
=== dendrobates is now known as dendro-afk
highvoltagecjwatson: congratulations!18:56
seb128slangasek, well, a  16 hour queue is unusual if the retracers are running and usually doesn't invalidate a retracing19:23
seb128slangasek, the bug are closed only if the stacktrace generated by the retraced is a junk one19:23
seb128having ddebs support in soyuz would be nice but wouldn't solve the issue, usually package index only have the current version, not the n previous ones19:24
seb128well, I'm not saying that invalid retracing are not annoying and an issue but in practice they are not problematic when the retracers are not down for 3 weeks like it just happened19:25
seb128hopefully with pitti's refactoring they will be robust now19:26
=== kancerman_ is now known as kancerman
tkamppeterCan someone finalize bug 822587 ([MIR] icc-profiles-free) by seeding it into main or making it a dependency or at least Recommended: in an appropriate package, so that it gets into beta1?19:45
ubottuLaunchpad bug 822587 in icc-profiles-free (Ubuntu) "[MIR] icc-profiles-free" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/82258719:45
seb128stgraber, hey, do you think you could review https://code.launchpad.net/~gunnarhj/language-selector/type-error/+merge/72755 and upload if it's good? gunnar was looking for a sponsor before19:51
seb128(just saw that you are piloting)19:51
seb128stgraber, with maybe https://code.launchpad.net/~rodrigo-moya/language-selector/show-in-new-g-c-c/+merge/72737 if you do an upload of the source ;-)19:52
stgraberseb128: ok, I'll have a look at these19:54
seb128stgraber, thanks19:54
bdrungtumbleweed: can we please have test cases for syncpackage?20:08
tumbleweedbdrung: I think there's too much launchpadlib in it for many20:09
tumbleweed(also it's a script, so it's not importable)20:10
CombatjuanI built a new kernel as per the Ubuntu wiki using the "old-fashioned debian way".  When it boots with the new kernel, it sits for ~1 minute starting up and then drops to initramfs.  My menu.lst uses the same command line with the new kernel as with the old ones (except the kernel to use, obviously).20:10
CombatjuanIt complains that the /dev/disk/by-uuid/XXXYYY does not exist, but the rootdelay and root are the same as kernels that work fine.  I'm not sure how to troubleshoot this.20:11
bdrungtumbleweed: we need a good stub for launchpadlib20:11
bdrungtumbleweed: writing the first test case will take some time, but it will give us the time back in the future20:12
tumbleweedI agree there20:12
bdrungtumbleweed: having test cases makes accepting new code easier20:12
bdrungtumbleweed: e.g. i found another bug20:12
bdrung$ syncpackage packaging-dev20:12
bdrungsyncpackage: Error: Version in Debian 0.1.1 (unstable) isn't newer than Ubuntu 0.1.1 (None)20:12
CombatjuanIt claims that "/dev/disk/by-uuid/XXXYYY...." doesn't exist.  It turns out that /dev/disk doesn't even exist.  Is that a good clue?20:12
bdrung-> None?20:12
cjwatsonhighvoltage: thanks!20:16
cjwatsonapw: grub-pc-bin might be what you want20:17
cjwatsonapw: (ships the binaries but doesn't own the boot sector)20:17
Chipzz_cjwatson: grats (on both accounts)! :)20:18
=== Chipzz_ is now known as Chipzz
tumbleweedbdrung: that (and a related bug I just noticed) isn't an issue with my merges, I'll prepare a separate merge for that20:21
tumbleweedbdrung: meh, actually it'll conflit with the bug closing branch, I'll do it there. I'm also tempted to try and get changelog entries out of launchpad rather than packages.debian.org (it'll make testing against qastaging way easier)20:25
tumbleweedbdrung: meh, that was a wild goose chase. I've already fixed that bug and the one I thought I saw was a package I maintain being removed from Ubuntu without me noticing :)20:42
ahasenackguys, this error is driving me crazy, I'm certainly missing something obvious: dpkg-source: error: cannot represent change to meliae-0.4.0/meliae/__init__.pyc: binary file contents changed20:52
ahasenackhere is some info:20:52
ahasenackI grabbed an existing debian/* structure and am trying to clean it up, so some bits I haven't touched yet like that PYVERS stuff20:54
ahasenackif I drop the orig.tar.gz from the parent directory, the build proceeds, but it creates a native package and a new tarball of course20:54
james_wahasenack, has that file been deleted?21:07
james_wahasenack, if it's in the tarball you can't delete it21:08
ahasenackjames_w: that file (pyc) doesn't exist in the tarball21:08
ahasenackjames_w: I just found out that it was being created in the clean target, by "python setup.py clean"21:08
ahasenackor so I think21:08
james_wah, that would do it21:08
james_wclean should remove those files21:08
ahasenackjames_w: funnt that setup.py clean actually creates one :)21:09
ahasenackthe only reason I was overriding clean was to remove the *.so files21:09
james_wI suspect it's got an "import meliae" to get the version21:09
ahasenacksetup.py from upstream doesn't handle that21:09
ahasenackjames_w: exactly,21:10
ahasenackjames_w: success \o/21:11
ahasenackgot a v3 source package built21:11
=== mwhudson__ is now known as mwhudon
=== mwhudon is now known as mwhudson
ahasenackI'm backporting a package version 0.4.0-1 to lucid, and will upload it to a ppa. Does this version look ok for this case: 0.4.0-1~lucid1~ppa1 ?21:39
tumbleweedahasenack: sounds good (backportpackage in ubuntu-dev-tools does that automatically for you)21:40
ahasenacktumbleweed: cool, thanks. I tried that tool once, but in lucid it doesn't exist (or doesn't work, I can't quite remember)21:41
=== dendro-afk is now known as dendrobates
* ahasenack on lucid21:41
* ahasenack bookmarks https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuBackports21:41
tumbleweedyeah the u-d-t PPA build for lucid is waiting on the dh_python2 backport21:42
ahasenackah, dh_python2 will be backported? nice21:42
tumbleweed...at some point...21:42
ahasenackbut it's part of the python package in oneiric, so will there be a new python package for lucid or will it be part of some other package?21:42
tumbleweedit involves changes to python-defaults, yes (whichis probably why nobody has done it)21:43
slangasekseb128: right, soyuz only keeps the latest file, but the librarian would keep more... which would make it possible to get backtraces on old executables, and let a lot of these "invalid" bugs get relabelled as duplicates21:44
bdrungtumbleweed: can you add an TODO item to the code and point to bug #833384?21:45
ubottuLaunchpad bug 833384 in Launchpad itself "API access to debian changelog" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/83338421:45
seb128slangasek, well I guess it would be "just a matter of adding the librarian logic"21:46
slangasekyep :)21:46
seb128slangasek, but at the same time I'm not sure how much extra bugs on old deprecated version we want21:46
seb128the experience is suboptimal for submitters but for our side we don't miss anything21:47
slangaseksure, I understand that21:47
slangasekbut the collateral damage is high21:47
slangasekno, it *does* cause bugs to be missed21:47
seb128like you can be sure that frequent segfaults will be reported and retraced21:47
slangasekright, but not consistently throughout the cyle21:47
seb128well, sure, instead of getting 260 bugs a day we get 90 bugs21:47
seb128we still read only 15 of those21:47
slangasekas I said, this g-s-d crash has been happening to me for a month; I guess I'll know tomorrow if it's still there in the new upstream version21:48
seb128what we really need is that database out of launchpad21:48
seb128slangasek, I'm ready to bet it's a dup of one of those bugs that get 15 duplicates a day21:48
slangasekmaybe so. if the retracer had processed it, we would know for sure ;)21:48
seb128and we wouldn't be able to open the master bug because launchpad would timeout on it :p21:49
slangasekhmm, well, at that point we have bug patterns...21:49
slangasekbut yeah, point taken21:50
seb128slangasek, let's say with you I agree on the sentiment and other do21:50
seb128we really need a database out of launchpad21:50
seb128handling of those in launchpad is suboptimal for several reasons21:50
slangasekthe crash database?21:50
* slangasek nods21:50
seb128it's creating lot of email spam and noise and adding constrain on the quality of what we collect21:51
seb128if that was out of the bug tracker we could just collect infos there21:51
Davieytumbleweed: Having the changelog via API isn't as exciting as having publish information via API.22:01
Daviey(for Debian)22:02
tumbleweedyou mean not having everything "Pending"?22:02
Davieytumbleweed: yeah22:02
tumbleweedthat wolud be rather nice :)22:02
DavieyI *think* i raised a bug about that.. or at least discussed it22:03
tumbleweedDaviey: it's rather fun trying to test things against 2 month old qastaging snapshot when you are getting current changelogs from Debian which disagree :)22:04
Davieyhappy happy joy joy22:05
cjwatsonany of the ubuntu-devel moderators know who approved https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2011-August/034011.html ?22:41
cjwatsonit contains at least one incredibly offensive insinuation, and in general it's a paranoid rant that I'm not sure belongs on our lists22:41
cjwatsonI think approving it for ubuntu-devel was a mistake22:42
slangasekoh, did that get cross-posted to ubuntu-devel?  I didn't notice which lists I was deleting-unread on22:44
stgraber@pilot out22:45
=== udevbot changed the topic of #ubuntu-devel to: Alpha 3 released | Archive: Feature Freeze | Development of Ubuntu (not support, not app development) | build failures -> http://bit.ly/or6CHJ | #ubuntu for support and general discussion for hardy -> oneiric | #ubuntu-app-devel for application development on Ubuntu | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment | See #ubuntu-bugs for http://bit.ly/lv8soi | Patch Pilots:
davidmcjwatson, I shudder any time Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton gets on his soap box22:49
davidmNice guy but he does have some interesting points of view22:50
cjwatsonbringing a suicide victim into it is a new low in terms of taste22:51
cjwatsonastoundingly inappropriate22:51
slangasekoh sigh22:52
cjwatsonI'm very tempted to knee-jerk ban but I'm too personally involved22:53
infinityI haven't gotten that far...22:53
infinityOkay, wow.  That's just beyond tasteless. :/22:55
sorencjwatson: I didn't approve it, but had I seen it come through, I probaby would have. At a glance, it looks on-topic (in the sense that it's a non-spam response to an existing thread).22:57
* soren starts reading22:57
infinitysoren: Don't.  You'll hate yourself for doing so.  Especially the low point that Colin mentions. :/22:58
soreninfinity: I'm a sucker for this sort of thing.22:59
soreninfinity: And I think I need to read something frustrating that isn't aimed at me for once.22:59
infinitysoren: Suit yourself.  I kinda want to go punch concrete a bit right now.  Normally, the only effect he has on me is the perfectly rational urge to punch HIM.23:00
infinityAnd I think I may have just stepped a few meters over the CoC line myself there, so I'll shut up. :P23:00
infinitycjwatson: If there was any way to undeliver it, I'd be all for it.  Sadly, removing it from the archives won't do much.23:00
ajmitchinfinity: having read it, I can understand the frustration23:01
infinitycjwatson: Banning lkcl from posting follow-ups won't hurt my feelings, though.23:02
infinitycjwatson: Then again, I'm about as personally affected as you, for very different reasons.  So... :/23:02
* soren starts to understand what the fuss is all about23:03
* soren stops23:05
=== yofel_ is now known as yofel

Generated by irclog2html.py 2.7 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!