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dholbachgood morning07:19
ajmitchhi dholbach07:19
dholbachhi ajmitch07:20
dholbachhi iulian07:27
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sladenhello geser11:39
sladenhello AnAnt11:39
hrwcan someone sync bug 832692?11:41
ubottuLaunchpad bug 832692 in gtk-gnutella (Ubuntu) "FFe: Sync gtk-gnutella 0.97-2 (universe) from Debian sid (main)" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/83269211:41
geserHi sladen11:42
geserhrw: you don't need a FFe for that as fixing a FTBFS isn't a new feature (FFe is more for new upstream revisions or when a new feature gets added to a package (e.g. enable linking against an additional library to enable a feature))11:45
geserdoes somebody know if the LP sync button is already in the web UI or only in the API?11:48
hrwgeser: thx11:48
tumbleweedgeser: web ui, but we'd like everyone to use the API11:50
tumbleweedalso, be aware that it won't currently close bugs on upload11:50
hakermaniaHow many hours remain till last-last-last Freeze???11:51
tumbleweedhakermania: wiki.ubuntu.com/OneiricReleaseSchedule11:52
hakermaniatumbleweed, the exception is till Final Freeze?11:53
jtaylorwhat is that for an error: http://paste.ubuntu.com/673760/11:53
gesertumbleweed: doesn't the web ui use the same LP API call?11:54
tumbleweedgeser: yes11:54
geserbut I have to use the (updated) syncpackage script and can't push a button on the web ui?11:54
tumbleweedgeser: bug 830584 for some of the issues we have wit hthe web ui11:55
ubottuLaunchpad bug 830584 in Launchpad itself "Concerns about the use of +localpackagediffs in Ubuntu" [High,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/83058411:55
* tumbleweed has a quick look at adding sync blacklist support to syncpackage11:57
geserjtaylor: that usually happens when there are no files to build the deb from (e.g. when the package uses only build_indep but some packages in debian/control mention they are arch-specific)11:57
jtaylorah ok11:58
jtaylorits a i386 and I'm trying to build on amd6411:58
RhondaLaney: I'm up to 5 caches in 5 days, need to do one today still. :)11:58
hakermaniaAnAnt, hi :P11:59
gesertumbleweed: thanks for the bug number11:59
geserit would be quite handy to just press a button in the web browser to sponsor a sync request12:00
tumbleweedgeser: yeah. The plan was always to make sponsor-patch handle sync sponsoring too (responsible sponsors test-build :) )12:07
LaneyRhonda: still without a gps?12:09
geserGeo-caching without a GPS?12:10
hakermaniaSorry, the feature freeze exception is till the final freeze?12:10
hakermaniaNice! Much more time :)12:10
Laneyerm, not really12:10
Laneyit gets harder to justify the addition of new stuff as the release comes closer12:11
hakermaniaLaney, why so? Because of loads of work?12:13
Laneybecause we need to be concentrating on fixing bugs and not introducing new things, and as new source packages take up a lot of time (as you are seeing with your reviews) there needs to be a good reason for them.12:14
hakermaniaLaney, they take a lot of time as for the uploader, not as for the reviewer, I think... See, this is the try of one of the reviewers to build my package. It failed but it took no more than a minute: http://paste.ubuntu.com/669042/12:16
Laneyso tumbleweed has not spent much time working with you on this package?12:17
tumbleweedjtalyor too12:17
hakermaniaLaney, yes ofcourse they have. But that's only because I'm newbie :|12:18
tumbleweedas a reviewer, I'd argue reviewers probably spend more time reviewing things than some people spend preparing them12:18
hakermaniatumbleweed, that's doesn't apply on me actually, being a new coder and packager, is a hard work understanding how things work or should have worked. But thanks to you guys now all are more clear. Also, an experienced packager wouldn't need so much guidance and repeatation.12:20
RhondaLaney: yes, still without gps.12:21
Rhondageser: yep. :)12:21
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Laneythe one on my phone works well enough12:21
Rhondathe one in google maps works well enough12:22
RhondaAt least within a city as Vienna12:22
Laneyi find openstreetmap better as it marks more features12:22
tumbleweedhakermania: of course, just responding to "they take a lot of time as for the uploader, not as for the reviewer, I think..."12:28
hakermaniatumbleweed, I'd really one day have as a hoppy fixing bugs :D12:29
cjwatsonthere's a certain amount of general archive maintenance work which kind of mounts up for every extra package in the archive, and packages introduced too late can be problematic there12:29
cjwatsonit's not just review time12:29
hakermaniacjwatson, do you refer to the new packages after FF?12:30
Laneyright, it's not just about regressions or bugs in the distribution, it is about the time of people who have to deal with them12:30
cjwatsonhakermania: I do12:31
* cjwatson notes that he has spent most of the last week doing very little else but cleaning up after packages people weren't keeping properly up to date in various ways12:31
RhondaLaney: well, google maps is integrated directly in geocaching.com website12:31
Laneyyou can get on OSM there too12:32
Laney"View dynamic map" or similar12:32
Laneycjwatson: we need to do more to get people to care for transitions they start, certainly12:32
hakermaniacjwatson, this is unhappy, does this come from unresponsible uploaders? Uploaders don't care if their packages don't build in new ubuntu versions?12:32
cjwatsonnot all the problems are easy for people to notice, and many of the packages are just synced from Debian and don't have a specific Ubuntu uploader but need to be poked for Ubuntu in some way12:34
cjwatsonbut yes, some of them are just semi-abandoned12:34
Laneya lot of stuff certainly could have been predicted (libav...)12:34
cjwatsonI don't know why that was left for so long; I assume somebody got busys12:34
cjwatsonbut anyway, this contributes to more caution about adding extra packages late12:36
hakermaniacjwatson, that's one reason why having a package 1stly go through debian and then import it to ubuntu is not a good idea?12:37
cjwatsonno no no no no12:37
cjwatsonplease do that whenever you can12:37
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cjwatsonfor the most part it's much less work for us and does more good for more people12:37
cjwatsonbut people do need to keep an eye on health in Ubuntu as well12:38
cjwatsonI absolutely think people should work through Debian whenever it make sense12:38
hakermaniacjwatson, So, mainly, the best way is to build a package wherever, test it that it works both on debian and ubuntu, send it to debian and import it to ubuntu :)12:39
paultagyes :)12:39
paultagjust like fixing a bug in the kernel is better served in linux, and not here in Ubuntu12:40
cjwatsonthe problems I'm working on are not about things that worked at the time they were first built, they're about keeping up to date with library changes and the like12:40
cjwatsonpackages don't tend to exist in glorious isolation with no changes required12:40
hakermaniaI feel a bit guilty for sending my package to revu now ._. But Ubuntu is so excellent and up-to-date that it *HAS* to have its very-own programs12:44
paultaghakermania: it's actually not that much more up to date then Debian12:45
paultaghakermania: you might be thinking of debian stable? Unstable and Testing both have really up to date stuff. It's where we pull from for Ubuntu12:45
paultagsomething crazy like upwards of 75% of our packages are direct clones from Debian12:45
Laneyhuh, I went to look at the graph but it looks like MoM is borked and didn't generate the entire page12:46
cjwatsonI don't think you should feel *guilty* about it, but it might be worth considering sending your next one to Debian12:46
hakermaniapaultag, I downloaded the last version of debian (the one with a space rocket or similar, lol) and when i tried installing there my package it said that multiple dependencies were missing, though the debian system itself was up-to-date12:47
paultaghakermania: it's rock solid here. The reason Ubuntu's so stable is because Debian is. We have a great relationship with them12:47
cjwatsonLaney: *cough* looks like I might have left the lock held when I was last working on MoM disk space :-/12:47
cjwatsonfixed I hope12:47
hakermaniapaultag, I understand12:48
tumbleweedbdrung, cjwatson: sync blacklist detection for syncpackage proposed12:48
LaneyRhonda: I placed a cache outside my office window — sometimes I get to watch people looking for it :-)12:48
Laney(like now)12:48
cjwatsonhakermania: you can't necessarily take a package built on Ubuntu or on a newer Debian version and install it on Debian stable; this is also true of building a package on oneiric and trying to install it on, say, lulcid12:49
bdrungtumbleweed: do you have the time to add a bug closing feature to the tool?12:49
cjwatsonit needs to be built for the release in question12:49
tumbleweedbdrung: working on that next12:49
tumbleweedbdrung: although I see talk of that happening in LP now12:49
hakermaniacjwatson, so how can you test your program in both Debian and Ubuntu?12:50
Laneywouldn't it be nice if launchpad had a real blacklist feature?12:50
bdrungtumbleweed: at least -b should work (or throw an error)12:50
cjwatsonhakermania: note that you said that, I diddn't12:50
cjwatsonhakermania: but building it on the *oldest* usually works; or just build it for both12:50
cjwatsonbuilding it for both isn't usually necessary unless you depend on fast-moving libraries12:50
hakermaniacjwatson, 'you' was general, thanks for the info12:51
cjwatsonusually testing it on the one you upload to is sufficient12:51
bdrungtumbleweed: is_blacklisted could get a comment12:56
tumbleweedfair enough12:56
bdrungtumbleweed: login_anonymously is enough for the old sync way12:58
tumbleweedbdrung: yes, but I don't see the point of that (and the launchpad people really don't seem to like people using anonymous logins)12:58
tumbleweedthey weren't very interested in ubuntu-sponsoring breaking when logged in anonymously12:59
bdrungtumbleweed: but why should syncpackage require the credentials if it is not needed?13:00
tumbleweedbdrung: no, but I think that'll be a minority use case13:01
bdrungtumbleweed: but not impossible13:01
tumbleweed< lifeless> we only really support anonymous API access for folk doing experimentation in browsers etc - thats the primary anonymous use case.13:02
tumbleweed< tumbleweed> lifeless: I wish that were better documented. I use anonymous API access whenever I can13:03
bdrunghm, okay13:04
hakermania Ubuntu-humour :P https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FinalFreeze14:34
nigelbthat sounds like robbie.14:35
nigelbyep, robbie.14:35
log69hi all! anyone interested in helping me test my software: tomld? security related stuff. I'm about to release my first stable version soon. I gladly take any opinions or feedback of it. my site: http://log69.com/tomld_en.html14:53
hakermanialog69, hi! You can also make a post at ubuntuforums.org about this.15:01
log69hakermania: ok15:08
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hakermaniaLaney, what does this guy says here: bug 824102 ? :( I thought it was till FinalFreeze :'(18:42
ubottuLaunchpad bug 824102 in Ubuntu "FFE: Wallch 2.0" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/82410218:42
tumbleweedhakermania: firstly, it's not a guy. And I don't think the UI Freeze is relevant here. But I also don't think the FFe is valid forever.18:45
hakermaniatumbleweed, you said that because it's a woman? Sorry for the slang, but I use 'guy' for everyone :) I knwo FFe is not valid 4ever, it's till September 29th.18:47
tumbleweedat some point it should be re-evaluate is what I'm saying. I've asked her why she thinks UI freeze applies here18:49
tumbleweedhakermania: is it ready for another review? or are there still issues?18:50
hakermaniatumbleweed, my co-developer just noticed something in the Help Files (Contents) so fixing it and it will be ready18:53
iulianhakermania: Every single day counts here and thus if you wait till the 29th of September, I'm afraid that it's not gonna get in. You have to be utterly lucky to find an archive admin to review new packages that late in the cycle.18:59
hakermaniaiulian, I am optimistic enough to believe that the package is fine19:00
hakermaniaIt will be advocateed soon19:00
iulianThe sooner the better.19:00
hakermaniaiulian, not in bed o.O19:00
hakermaniaiulian, nothing :D19:01
tumbleweedconsidering that some of us spent half the last feature freeze looking at it too, I'd be only to glad to see it accepted :)19:01
tumbleweed(which begs the question of why it took so long. and in future, please try to get new versions in before FF)19:02
hakermaniatumbleweed, I know. I was a #%$#&$ (censored) doing so but we are in the last year of school and the most vital for our life, so we didn't have enough time to develop the application prior to FF19:03
hakermaniatumbleweed, thanks :D When I told my dad about how helpful and patient some people are answered that that's the reason why this world will always tend to become better even if it seems things go bad19:06
hakermaniaI dunno if that's true :)19:06
tumbleweednp. We also didn't put much effort into reviews for you before FF. But that's part of the problem with REVU19:07
hakermaniatumbleweed, if you can, please delete the older build tries stored at revu. They don't need to take web space there.19:13
tumbleweedsorry, I'm not a revu admin. I assume everything is kept purposely. It can be deleted when uploaded to Ubuntu19:13
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hakermaniatumbleweed: if you do review wallch now, don't! We forgot to remove the freeware non-commercial icons from the mime types :((((((((((19:46
tumbleweeddon't worry, I'm waiting for you to tell me to19:46
hakermaniaglad you don't trust me hehe19:47
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hakermaniaajmitch, it 23:31 here :P20:32
ajmitchyes, it'll always be night somewhere in the world :)20:32
hakermaniatumbleweed, if we have made a synthesis of 2 files from a public domain should we mention that in copyright? Or the copyright of the file has passed to us as GPL3 now?20:33
tumbleweedmention it, if you don't document it, you'll forget, and then if anyone asks...20:34
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hakermaniatumbleweed, I tell you to D20:50
tumbleweedhakermania: ok, I'll look in half an hour or so20:51
hakermaniatumbleweed, excellent :)20:52
al-maisanhello there, can somebody please shed light on the "install_egg_info" action/target, I am seeing this while building a source package in pbuilder: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/674131/20:53
al-maisanit's a python package FWIW20:54
tumbleweedal-maisan: it's metadata used by distribute / setuptools / pkg-resources21:01
al-maisanIs there a way to turn this off? Or should I leave it alone?21:01
tumbleweedleave it be21:01
al-maisanok, thanks tumbleweed !21:02
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LaneyI shouldn't have approved that ffe until the package was closer to being ready22:01
Laneyit's not an open ended "now you can take as long as you want" ticket22:01
tumbleweedLaney: this is how we learn :)22:03
ajmitchLaney: I'll have to file a FFe for you to approve & then leave it until a day before release, shall I? :)22:04
tumbleweedLaney: oh, I'd appreciate it i fyou could play with/review my syncpackage merges22:05
bdrungtumbleweed: tomorrow22:05
bdrungtumbleweed: i have to write in my diary and then go to bed22:06
tumbleweedbdrung: thanks22:06
bdrungtumbleweed: ups, you asked Laney - i was highlighted due to the keyword syncpackage :)22:06
tumbleweedbdrung: heh22:07
bdrungtumbleweed: after a quick look. test cases! test cases! test cases!22:07
ajmitchdoes syncpackage work in new & interesting ways now?22:07
tumbleweedyeah, that's why it needs some manual testing22:07
tumbleweedajmitch: native package sync22:07
bdrungajmitch: especially interesting ways ;)22:07
tumbleweedbdrung: really I wish I could, but that's a *massive* job22:08
ajmitchright, I saw mention of that on irc, wasn't sure if it was in production LP yet22:08
bdrungtumbleweed: i know, but someone needs to start. otherwise the quality won't improve22:08
ajmitchat least most of the testing should have been done on the server side :)22:09
bdrungajmitch: it will be announced once the new syncpackage is released (and hopefully after some blocker bugs are fixed)22:09
ajmitchbdrung: right22:09
tumbleweedajmitch: well, we found a whole buch of issues when we started trying to use it...22:09
ajmitchtumbleweed: that's the nature of it22:10
ajmitchit'll be good to lessen the load on archive admins, even if it was relatively straightforward22:11
tumbleweedright, which is why we want a client interface that works nicely22:12
* tumbleweed promised quick turnaround on that dh_python2 ffe /me better look at it22:14
ajmitchthat reminds me, I think I have one ffe I need to file for that22:15
hakermaniatumbleweed, translations are Ok, seriously22:16
tumbleweedhakermania: ohreally? http://paste.ubuntu.com/674171/22:17
hakermaniatumbleweed, see ./usr/share/wallch/translations/ ?22:18
hakermaniaFiles are in there22:18
hakermaniaI just create the .qm files, move them to data/to_usr_share/wallch/translations and copy recursively this folder to $PREFIX22:19
tumbleweedhakermania: if they were there, they'd be listed. They aren't.22:20
hakermaniai'll test it again :/22:20
hakermaniatumbleweed: http://i.imgur.com/JZlmc.png22:22
hakermaniaSee the md5sum22:22
tumbleweedhakermania: the md5sum will be different every time you build it. run debc, and you'll also see they aren't there22:23
hakermaniatumbleweed, watch seriously the screenshot, the /usr/share/wallch doesn't exit ('ls' says it) and wallch binary isn't there ('which' says it), I run dpkg -i *.deb and then I ls /usr/share/wallch/translations and files are there22:24
hakermaniaAll these plus the md5sum are in the screenshot22:25
hakermaniaAnd the md5sum of the DEB with the one I uploaded to revu are *exactly* the same22:25
tumbleweedhakermania: it's not about the deb you upload, it's about what deb gets produced when *I* (or anyone else) builds it22:26
hakermaniawhy should be different?22:26
ajmitchespecially as only source packages are uploaded to ubuntu, so what counts is the binary package that the buildds produce22:26
tumbleweedit shouldn't22:26
hakermaniatumbleweed, why it IS?22:26
tumbleweedhakermania: have you run debc on the deb you built. Are the translations there?22:27
hakermaniatumbleweed, it says it can't read the .changes file22:28
tumbleweedpoint it at the _i386.changes file22:28
hakermaniatumbleweed, yes, they are http://i.imgur.com/6H0WO.png22:29
cjwatsonwhy is the man page in section 2?22:29
tumbleweedhrm, interesting22:29
hakermaniatumbleweed, yes, indeed :D22:29
ajmitchpossibly a missing build-dependency for building translations22:30
hakermaniacjwatson, are you talking to me?22:30
hakermaniacjwatson, lintian told me that it should be there (it is wallch 2.0 no 1.0)22:31
cjwatsonyou misread it22:31
cjwatsonthe version number of the software is irrelevant22:31
cjwatsonsection 2 is for system calls - the interface between the kernel and userspace22:31
hakermaniacjwatson, omg :)22:31
cjwatsonmanual pages for ordinary user programs belong in section 122:31
hakermaniacjwatson, well, I will fix this ;)22:32
cjwatsonlintian was probably identifying some other real problem, but without seeing the exact warning it gave you it's hard to say exactly what22:32
tumbleweedhakermania: it was actually due to the --parallel. Your changes to the qm file installation aren't parallel-make-safe22:39
hakermaniatumbleweed, Yeah, i can understand why.22:40
hakermaniaThey are built and then moved to $prefix/share/wallch/translations, if this isn't done with the right order nothing will be moved22:41
tumbleweedright, and make doesn't guarantee the order rules will be run in22:41
hakermaniaSo, should I just remove the parallel?22:41
tumbleweedI'd fix the makefile :)22:41
hakermaniatumbleweed, hm, a clever thought would be to make the same rule building and moving the files, I'll try this, but I won't be able to test if it will work or not :/ I may still work for me but not for you22:42
hakermaniaHow could I test it?22:42
cjwatsondependencies are the usual way to force things in the correct order22:43
hakermaniaalso data/mime contain a wallch.xml file which is ours, so I will prefer the data/mime/x/* format22:44
cjwatsonI find it hard to believe that --parallel gains you any significant amount of build time22:44
hakermaniacjwatson, sorry but i don't get you. The only thing i know about dependencies are the build ones and the normal ones :/22:44
tumbleweedin this case install_helpfiles_and_translations builds the translations, install_configfiles installs them22:44
tumbleweedit really should just be tidied22:44
hakermaniaYeah, I see22:45
cjwatsonthe concept is explained in make's documentation, although I haven't looked at your build system in any detail22:45
tumbleweedcjwatson: yeah I askedb for that because I'd built it a few times, and it's nice to have something build almost 8 times as fast...22:45
cjwatsonccache :)22:45
* tumbleweed hasn't set that up in my sbuild22:45
hakermaniatumbleweed, yes, it should be tidied but I assumed that while I INSTALLS 1stly the one and then the other the job will be done correctly22:49
hakermaniatumbleweed, about the synthesized image, i'd like to completely remove the info from the copyright, we are the holders and this goes to *22:50
hakermaniaFiles: *^22:50
tumbleweedhakermania: fine, I don't care that much (I've made you review the copyright on the images, that was the most important thing)22:51
tumbleweedif install_configfiles depends on things from install_helpfiles_and_translations, it should depend on install_helpfiles_and_translations22:51
tumbleweedreally I think you should separate the translations and helpfiles (tehy got to separate places) and remove configfiles (you don't have any)22:52
hakermaniatumbleweed, I thought separating the helpfiles from translations, removing completely translations and making unix:configfiles.extra and there making the translation binaries22:55
hakermaniait's all in one, they are moved by configfiles and build from configfiles, i'm just saying22:56
hakermaniaIf the unix commands are run firstly and then it installs the target to path, problem solved. One moment to test it :D22:57
tumbleweedoh also when chaining commands together you should probably use && rather than ;22:57
hakermaniaok, thanks22:57
tumbleweedotherwise if one of the ones in the middle fails, you'll never know22:57
hakermaniayeah, it is as I said23:07
hakermaniacjwatson: I don't think that I didn't understood correctly, the error is: W: wallch: manpage-section-mismatch /usr/share/man/man1/wallch.1.gz:1 1 != 223:10
hakermaniajust change the 1.gz to 2.gz?23:10
cjwatsonno absolute not23:11
cjwatsonit says that because the .TH field in your manual page says 2.  change it to 123:11
cjwatsonif you run the output from lintian through the lintian-info program, it will give you more information23:11
hakermaniacjwatson, I am curious to know why the error was gone when I moved it to man223:14
cjwatsonbecause then the file name and the .TH header matched - that's all that check tests23:15
cjwatsonthat doesn't mean that the admittedly consistent state you ended up in was correct23:15
hakermaniacjwatson, thx :)23:15
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hakermaniaOf :) there's a new upload... enough for today I think, goodnight it's almost hald past too and I miss my bed :P thanks guys again for all the help :)23:24
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