[00:27] <doctormo> AlanBell: It's borg coding, you take out a c file, and it grows back again.
[01:36] <nigelb> I hear the Motorola Photon has Ubuntu and Android.
[01:37] <nigelb> This is interesting news.
[02:00] <doctormo> nigelb: facinating
[02:23] <duanedesign> nigelb: i thought these screenshots looked familiar http://www.motorola.com/Consumers/US-EN/Consumer-Product-and-Services/WEBTOP/Meet-WEBTOP
[02:30] <duanedesign> nigelb: I have read a couple articles on Webtop, and the Motorola site above, in the last couple weeks and never was it mentioned it is Ubuntu based. I did not realize it until you mentioned it.
[02:32] <nigelb> duanedesign: I did not either. A friend who works at Mozilla blogged and then hunted down.
[02:32] <nigelb> duanedesign: Ars rightly points out that webtop is Ubuntu based
[02:47] <duanedesign> nigelb: wish it was mentioned more, but nice to see it being used
[02:47] <duanedesign> ill have to read ars
[07:20] <dholbach> good morning
[08:10] <kim0> Morning
[11:34] <dholbach> nigelb, the new harvest is very unhappy again
[11:34] <dholbach> lots of postgres: harvest harvest [local] idle in transaction
[11:34] <nigelb> dholbach: :(
[11:34] <nigelb> dholbach: do you know which queries are getting stuck?
[11:35] <nigelb> (also, why didn't this show up earlier :|)
[11:35] <dholbach> no, I have no idea how to check that
[11:36] <nigelb> we need someone who's a postgres expert.
[11:36] <nigelb> mhall119: would you be able to look?
[11:43]  * nigelb wishes he had ssh access to poke at logs
[11:47] <mhall119> nigelb: what's going on?
[11:49] <nigelb> mhall119: mhall119
[11:50] <mhall119> oh, well that explains everything
[11:51] <mhall119> mhall@guanabana:/srv/harvest.ubuntu.com$ uptime 11:51:19 up  6:01,  4 users,  load average: 10.90, 11.00, 10.90
[11:51] <mhall119> that's not good :(
[11:52] <nigelb> mhall119: ugh, sorry. bad interwebz.
[11:52] <nigelb> RIght, something is making that machine very unhappy.
[11:53] <nigelb> Could you `ps ax | grep apache2 | wc -l`
[11:59] <mhall119> nigelb: I think Ng rebooted apache
[12:00] <nigelb> mhall119: cool.
[12:09] <dholbach> http://thebuild.com/blog/2010/10/25/django-and-postgresql-idle-in-transaction-connections/ might be something worth looking into
[12:10] <mhall119> dholbach: that's a possibility, i'd have to become familiar with harvest's code to know for sure
[12:11] <dholbach> mhall119, it's basically the same "update" scripts we have in LD as well
[12:11] <dholbach> (where I think they would make sense)
[12:39] <dholbach> nigelb, did you file the memcached ticket?
[12:43] <mhall119> nigelb: did you run harvest under the django debug toolbar?
[13:11] <jcastro> buenas mornings!
[13:11] <AlanBell> o/ jcastro
[13:12] <paultag> jcastro: boy howdy
[13:34] <AlanBell> my appmenu lens is coming together, looks like I might be able to get it working over the weekend
[15:41] <akgraner> jono look at you getting quoted in a CNN article...go you!
[15:41] <jono> akgraner, yeah, I met with the guy a few weeks back
[15:41] <jono> nuts, eh?
[15:42] <akgraner> jono, nah not nuts - pretty awesome - I wanna know your secrets..how the heck do you do it all...:-) (I would say you should write a book, but you got that covered ;-P)
[15:43] <jono> akgraner, lol
[15:43] <jono> I don't do that much
[15:47] <akgraner> ok then I'll go back to calling you a slacker then...
[15:55] <popey> I tuned in to at home with jono this week, was insane the number of questions you get
[15:55] <popey> lots of dupes from previous weeks, but still
[15:55] <popey> all good fun
[15:58] <paultag> mhall119: lol umad bro
[15:58] <paultag> mhall119: you should port loco.ubuntu to php or ruby
[15:59] <jono> popey, always fun :-)
[16:15] <dholbach> alright my friends - I call it a day!
[16:15] <dholbach> see you!
[16:18]  * popey hugs dholbach 
[16:18]  * dholbach hugs popey back
[16:32] <mhall119> paultag: lol
[16:33] <mhall119> damn it, I just wasted 3 hours >:(
[16:33] <paultag> mhall119: dude you sound like a pissed off rookie after someone critisized a design he made - that post got me to ask myself, "Humm, I wonder if mhall119's going to ragequit"
[16:33] <paultag> mhall119: you're better then that shit, man :)
[16:34] <paultag> and I say that with love
[16:35] <mhall119> paultag: the inspiration was actually watching this happen to someone else
[16:35] <paultag> still
[16:36]  * mhall119 ragequits
[16:36] <paultag> that sort of feedback can be helpful, and I really like it when people say stuff to me like that - other ways of coming at a problem - usually someone gets upset if they're taking the design personally
[16:37] <paultag> I think a better post would have been - write software to write software, put your heart and soul into it, but don't get pissed off when people don't see things the same way you do
[16:37] <mhall119> I made a point to say that the suggestions are probably valid, and that the offered solutions are probably better
[16:37] <paultag> mhall119: you should have written your blog post this way
[16:37] <paultag> neener neener
[16:37] <mhall119> it's great to know that, it's great to learn, it's not great trash-bin what you've done for a minor improvement
[16:37] <paultag> meh :)
[16:37] <paultag> I'd not be as good as I am today if I'd stuck with my initial design choices
[16:38] <paultag> and if the change and rewrite ends up being marginal (and it will, sometimes), you live and learn
[16:38] <mhall119> I'm not saying stick with it, I'm saying don't dump it
[16:38] <paultag> that's what VCS is for :)
[16:38] <paultag> a rm -rf can make you feel really good about a project again
[16:39] <paultag> I see what you're saying, and I understand - I just disagree :)
[16:39] <mhall119> paultag: It'd be like me saying "Your wording on the LEP#2 email could be better, so don't send it"
[16:39] <paultag> mhall119: that'd be fine
[16:40] <paultag> mhall119: and I'd consider not sending it, in order to revise it
[16:40] <mhall119> no it wouldn't, because no matter how much you improve your wording, it can always still be better
[16:40] <mhall119> at some point you have to say "Yeah, it's not perfect, but it's good enough to do anyway"
[16:40] <mhall119> which was my whole point, good enough is better than nothing
[16:41] <paultag> mhall119: true, but at a point you can just do it, we don't disagree there - but to ignore the advice or critisism of someone (esp if they know what they know what they're doing) is tragic
[16:41] <paultag> mhall119: your post made it seem like you should set a path and drive blind
[16:41] <mhall119> hmmm, I didn't mean to suggest that people ignore the advice on how to improve things
[16:42] <paultag> that's why I thought it was odd
[16:42] <mhall119> just that they shouldn't hold back a contribution just because it could possible be better if
[16:42] <paultag> mhall119: I usually do
[16:42] <mhall119> you hold back?
[16:42] <paultag> mhall119: yes, of course
[16:42] <paultag> I'd rather a pristine patch in two weeks then a quick and dirty hack in 2 days
[16:42] <mhall119> so you think that the patches you do submit are perfect?
[16:42] <paultag> any day of the week
[16:43] <paultag> mhall119: no, but I think they are pristine and tidy
[16:43] <paultag> I tend to not submit sub-par patches
[16:43] <mhall119> your 2 week patches could be made better too, should you wait on a 4 week patch?  or a 6 month patch?
[16:43] <paultag> there are exceptions, of course, and note I don't say perfect
[16:43] <paultag> mhall119: I said pristine, not perfect
[16:43] <paultag> clean, correct and complete
[16:43] <mhall119> then we're talking 2 different things
[16:43] <paultag> I don't think so
[16:44] <mhall119> then you're lying to yourself, I think, about the actual quality of what you submit
[16:44] <paultag> I hold things back to keep working on them, so that my patch is clean, consistant, correct and complete, rather then release a patch that's not that, i.e. sub-par (but may be correct and complete)
[16:44] <paultag> mhall119: perhaps
[16:44] <mhall119> and I say that with love ;)
[16:44] <paultag> noted :)
[16:46] <paultag> mhall119: actually - I have an example
[16:47] <paultag> mhall119: my fluxbox patch (17 files changed, 1215 insertions, 11 deletions) has been sitting in my queue for about 5 months now. It works, and it's in the repos in the form of it's own project, but it's not perfect. So I have this huge patch that I've not pushed in yet, because it's not up to my standard
[16:48] <paultag> there's a level of standard I'd expect in the codebase, and I'm not going to ruin it because I'm to lazy to refactor
[16:50] <paultag> and on that note, lunch! :)
[16:54] <mhall119> paultag: so fluxbox users have been without your contribution for 5 months, is that loss to them worth the benefit they'll get when you eventually do release it?
[16:58] <mhall119> (future value) - (present value) - (your time spent refactoring) >= (5 months without present value)
[16:58] <mhall119> ?
[17:16] <paultag> mhall119: yes
[17:16] <paultag> mhall119: because they can install it as fbautostart
[17:16] <paultag> but it's not of the standard that's expected in the work "fluxbox"
[17:16] <paultag> it's it's own project with a lower standard then fluxbox
[17:17] <nigelb> mhall119: Yes, I did.
[17:44] <paultag> mhall119: http://blog.pault.ag/post/9419992656/project-patch-standards-and-what-they-mean-to-me ♥
[17:44] <paultag> I think you'll find we agree for the most part
[17:47] <mhall119> most likely
[17:47] <mhall119> I'll read it when I'm not on my phone :)
[17:47] <paultag> mhall119: it's no problem. I'm just putting that somewhere so I can point someone at it next time I reject a patch :)
[18:13] <nigelb> OH GOD. https://docs.google.com
[18:19] <paultag> ahahha
[18:19] <paultag> fail
[18:19]  * AlanBell wonders what is going on
[18:20] <daker> http://www.google.com/appsstatus#hl=en
[18:21] <AlanBell> works for me
[18:21] <daker> http://www.google.com/appsstatus#rm=1&di=4&hl=en
[18:21] <daker> AlanBell, Error 404