[00:28] <HazRPG> anyone here heard about the latest vulnerability found for apache?
[00:53] <penguin42> no?
[04:30] <HazRPG> hmm, anyone awake?
[04:32] <Azelphur> yep
[04:32] <HazRPG> got a bash script question, I want to end my script by running a command, and then issuing "exit"... even if the command is still doing something, I want the script to end but let the command run nicely in the background
[04:33] <Azelphur> use &&?
[04:33] <HazRPG> ah, heh didn't think of that
[04:33] <Azelphur> :)
[04:34] <HazRPG> nope... that doesn't quite work
[04:35] <HazRPG> still got the debug stuff of the other command flowing through
[04:36] <ali1234> use exec
[04:38] <HazRPG> ali1234: you mean: exec `command` && exit 1
[04:38] <HazRPG> ?*
[04:39] <HazRPG> would that work?
[04:39] <ali1234> no
[04:41] <ali1234> exec runs a program without making a new process
[04:41] <ali1234> ie it exits the shell
[04:44] <HazRPG> hmm its not doing that
[04:44] <HazRPG> this is the command I want to run and then exit: google-chrome ${OPTS_USER_DIR}${P_BLANK}
[04:45] <HazRPG> obviously with those parameters defined elsewhere in the script
[04:46] <HazRPG> running that in with "exec " in front of it, isn't closing the script
[04:46] <HazRPG> however if I do that in the terminal by itself (not in a script file) it does
[04:48] <HazRPG> if it helps, its getting run from inside of an if statement
[04:54] <MartijnVdS> \o
[04:58] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: o/
[05:00] <HazRPG> ali1234: hmm, I think its because of the fullscreen hack
[05:47] <Earthling> :-)
[05:47] <Earthling> Morning friends and trolls
[06:21] <harry_> i got the error msg when i fire "make" command in the directory which has the whitespace in the directory name..??
[06:39] <BigRedS> harry_: what does the error message say?
[06:40] <BigRedS> I'm not in front of my PC much today, but nobody else'll be able to help you either without that bit of info :)
[06:44] <harry_> *** No rule to make target `h/harry/harry12/LoadKernalObject/EventDriverModule'......
[06:44] <harry_> but the actual path is $ /Desktop/h h/PolyVision/PolyVisionDriver/LoadKernalObject/EventDriverModule
[06:47] <BigRedS> ah. The obvious fix would be to rename that 'h h' directory, else I'm afraid you'll have to fix the makefile yourself, or get the maintainer of it to
[06:49] <harry_> BigReds: remove the 'h h' thats just a demo..i want to work the 'makefile' perfectlly well in case of if user pass the dir name with the whitespace in it..
[07:36] <HazRPG> you know you've been awake too long when red bull is the key ingredient to the day
[07:36] <HazRPG> (or rather morning?)
[07:37] <HazRPG> Morning Earthling, how art thou?
[07:39] <HazRPG> harry_: erm... I don't do much makefile stuff, but well shouldn't it just be encapsulated inside of quotes?
[07:59] <harry_> ok
[08:24] <GreenDance> Hi
[08:25] <GreenDance> does the ubuntu cd have a rescue mode?
[08:43] <HazRPG> GreenDance: I think it does, not entirely sure though
[08:46] <GreenDance> HazRPG, what it is, is, I have received an old computer with an old linux distro installed but it's missing it's bootloader, so I'm just trying to find out how to go about reinstalling the bootloader
[08:50] <daubers> Morning
[08:50] <GreenDance> Morning daubers
[08:51] <GreenDance> daubers, by any chance do you know how to reinstall a missing bootloader (lilo)
[08:52] <dwatkins> !lilo
[08:53] <dwatkins> oh, I was hoping it would provide a link to the documentation on reinstalling lilo, sorry GreenDance
[08:53] <GreenDance> dwatkins, np :)
[08:53] <dwatkins> GreenDance: you should be able to boot from the installation medium (to have the same version of lilo available) and then reinstate it with a lilo command, the option escapes, me but I imagine it's listed in the documentation
[08:54] <dwatkins> you may need to chroot at the same time
[08:54] <GreenDance> dwatkins, thanks ill give that a try
[08:54] <dwatkins> your mileage may vary, backup everything beforehand, and be aware there may be unrecognised other operating systems etc.etc.
[09:02]  * dwatkins finally found the tune which was going around in his head all week by putting Chicane's discography on a playlist on from youtube (Chicane - Overlap) :D
[09:07]  * daubers had forgotten lilo existed
[09:07] <daubers> Do people still use it?
[09:07] <dwatkins> me too, daubers
[09:07] <dwatkins> I guess it's the default on old distros
[09:15] <GreenDance> I think I might have to give up on this :(
[09:17]  * daubers goes brambling
[09:17] <MartijnVdS> daubers: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UIcJTsGePBE
[09:21] <GreenDance> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjCLQaTFXx0 :)
[09:22]  * GreenDance dancing
[09:31] <brobostigon> good morning everyone.
[09:40] <dwatkins> shame GreenDance left - I was about to link to this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lk5_OSsawz4 :D
[09:40] <dwatkins> "...kiss a Wookie, kick a droid..." etc.
[10:24] <oimon_web> no irc client on touchpad ...boo. Took me 5 attempts to get the captcha right for the Web client
[10:24] <brobostigon> :(
[10:26] <oimon_web> need to catch up with directhex to find out how his debian chroot is getting on
[10:27] <directhex> oimon, wirc works on touchpad.
[10:27] <directhex> oimon, also, http://twitpic.com/6ct48e
[10:29] <oimon_web> woah dude, got a link to the howto?
[10:31] <directhex> got preware?
[10:34] <oimon_web> not yet, need to do it via my work pc tomorrow lunch
[10:34] <directhex> basically, the first thing you need is an ext3 partition. to create one, you use "meta doctor", which is a tool which takes hp's webos doctor reimaging tool, and modifies it to create a custom version with superpowers
[10:34] <directhex> in this case, there's a space in the makefile where you can set the size of the ext3 partition
[10:35] <directhex> once you reimage using your custom doctor, install preware, enable the testing feeds, install xecutah, edit /etc/fstab to mount your ext3 partition on boot, mount it, and finally install debian or ubuntu from preware
[10:36] <directhex> that'll bootstrap into your ext3 partition, and add a link in xecutah which opens an xterm inside your chroot
[10:36] <directhex> from there... apt-get whatevs
[10:38] <oimon_web> performance ok?
[11:01] <directhex> better than my efikamx
[11:28] <penguin42> the only problem with having a week and a bit off is the frightening thought that I'm going to have to wake up 4 hours earlier tomorrow
[11:37] <AlanBell> http://paste.ubuntu.com/677151/ argh. dpkg is broken, any ideas what to do?
[11:38] <AlanBell> /usr/lib/grub does not exist
[11:38] <TheOpenSourcerer> AlanBell: Do you know why this error happened? .: 97: Can't open /usr/lib/grub/grub-mkconfig_lib
[11:40] <penguin42> hmm - that file doesn't exist on my machine that has a newer install and thus never had Grub1 on
[11:40] <penguin42> it is on my old machine that still has Grub1
[11:40] <AlanBell> it exists on my laptop
[11:40] <AlanBell> which is running Natty
[11:40] <TheOpenSourcerer> It's on mine (10.10)
[11:41] <AlanBell> can I just copy from one machine running 64 bit natty to another I wonder
[11:41] <TheOpenSourcerer> AlanBell: It's a bash script
[11:41] <AlanBell> yeah, but there is other  stuff in /usr/lib/grub that is probably important
[11:42] <TheOpenSourcerer> Ahh - the dir doesn't exist?
[11:44] <AlanBell> indeed
[11:45] <AlanBell> I copied it over, but have to pop out for a bit now, will test later
[11:47] <GreenDance> hey
[11:50] <GreenDance> is it possible to customise the ubuntu installer?
[11:59] <directhex> GreenDance, sure. which one? there are two ubuntu installers
[12:01] <GreenDance> directhex, which one is which please?
[12:01] <directhex> debian-installer does the text-mode installer (server & alternate & netinstall CDs)
[12:02] <directhex> oh, i guess there are three, thinking about it
[12:02] <GreenDance> I'm thinking of the graphical one
[12:02] <directhex> wubi is the Windows-based installer, if you run it from inside windows
[12:02] <GreenDance> the graphical one from the live cd
[12:03] <directhex> Ubiquity, then.
[12:03] <directhex> that one's called Ubiquity
[12:04] <directhex> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LiveCDCustomization
[12:04] <GreenDance> thank you directhex
[12:04] <GreenDance> :)
[13:06] <brobostigon> is there a FB message client for android, that manages those messages, ie, replying etc, without having to go to the website?
[13:08] <brobostigon> and unlike FB's own app, isnt dead slow, and prone to malfunction.
[13:24] <dwatkins> brobostigon: you should be able to configure a jabber client for facebook
[13:24] <dwatkins> There's also Fring, but I havn't used that in a while.
[13:24] <brobostigon> dwatkins: however wont that only work for FB chat, and not Fb messages?
[13:24] <dwatkins> oh sorry, I see what you mean - can't you use the official FB app for those?
[13:25] <brobostigon> dwatkins: i am finding it somewhat slow and unstable, so looking for an alernative.
[13:25] <dwatkins> I think it's just using the browser, so that's understandable.
[13:26] <brobostigon> it keeps it all in app, it doesnt open the browser, at any time.
[13:29] <Westerham> Hello. Trying to see if anyone can shed light on the account login on my Ubuntu machine being really slow - you have to keep each key for the password depressed for sometime. I've posted a boot extract at http://paste.ubuntu.com/671690/
[13:44] <ikonia-remote> Westerham: are you logging into the gui locally ?
[13:47] <Westerham> Yes, on the same PC.
[13:48] <ikonia-remote> what video card do you have ?
[13:54] <livingdaylight> Having trouble installing Brother DCP-167 printer on Ubuntu 11.04 64-bit. Anyone have experience with this?
[13:54] <livingdaylight> I seem to have met all 64-bit requirements
[13:54] <livingdaylight> Anyone can tell me what dpkg  -i  --force-all does?
[13:54] <ikonia-remote> it forces the install
[13:55] <ikonia-remote> livingdaylight: why do you need to force it ? what's the error
[13:55] <livingdaylight> is that a way of installing a 32-bit deb file on a 64-bit machine?
[13:55] <ikonia-remote> you don't want to do that
[13:55] <livingdaylight> sudo dpkg -i dcp167ccupswrapper-1.1.2-2.i386.deb
[13:55] <livingdaylight> package architecture (i386) does not match system (amd64)
[13:56] <ikonia-remote> no, it won't, as you're running 64bit and that package is 32bit
[13:56] <livingdaylight> http://welcome.solutions.brother.com/bsc/public_s/id/linux/en/instruction_prn3.html
[13:56] <ikonia-remote> that just tells you to install the 32bit libs
[13:57] <ikonia-remote> which I assume you've installed
[13:57] <Westerham> Think its an nVidia MPC61 - will check though.
[13:58] <ikonia-remote> livingdaylight: then it tells you to foce the 32bit package to install.
[13:58] <ikonia-remote> have you followed what that guide says ?
[13:58] <livingdaylight> ikonia, yes, which I'm told is not a good idea
[13:58] <livingdaylight> yes, except for the forcing bit
[13:58] <ikonia-remote> livingdaylight: in my view it's not, however you don't really have a choice
[13:58] <ikonia-remote> livingdaylight: you have a choice of using the 32bit driver, or not using your printer
[13:59] <livingdaylight> the 32-bit driver only has a chance of working if I force it. Forcing something never sounds like a good idea. In a computing context I don't know what the ramifications could be
[14:00] <ikonia-remote> no ramifications,
[14:00] <ikonia-remote> it will either work as a software product or not, which as this is from a main vendors such as Brother, it should work.
[14:00] <ikonia-remote> it's an official package, with official instructions, you can trust brother and hope your printer works, or not use your printer. Your call
[14:01] <livingdaylight> ok, thank you
[14:01] <MartijnVdS> Printer manufacturers should stop providing software, and work with distros to get stuff packaged and distributed properly
[14:01] <livingdaylight> MartijnVdS, yes
[14:02] <ikonia-remote> MartijnVdS: no they shouldn't
[14:02] <livingdaylight> Ubuntu has been around long enough, and Brother are a big enough company. Given they provide some support why not go the whole way and provide up to date drivers for both 32 AND 64 bit ?
[14:02] <ikonia-remote> MartijnVdS: it's not realistic/practical
[14:02] <ikonia-remote> livingdaylight: maybe the drivers don't work in 64bit.....ever thought about tha t?
[14:03] <Westerham> Just confirmed graphics card is ATI Radeon HD 4550 512MB
[14:03] <ikonia-remote> Westerham: have you configured the correct graphics config for this card, sometimes visual lag is not actually real lag and just the graphics card mis-configured
[14:04] <MartijnVdS> ikonia-remote: Then you can expect 600MB printer drivers, like on Windows
[14:05] <ikonia-remote> MartijnVdS: what ?
[14:05] <MartijnVdS> ikonia-remote: never had an HP printer in Windows?
[14:05] <MartijnVdS> ikonia-remote: If you're lucky, it comes with 3 JVMs and is 600MB
[14:05] <ikonia-remote> MartijnVdS: yes, but how has the size of the driver got to do with being package for inclusion in a distro ?
[14:06] <MartijnVdS> ikonia-remote: hardware manufacturers are VERY bad at writing drivers.
[14:06] <ikonia-remote> MartijnVdS: what ?
[14:06] <ikonia-remote> MartijnVdS: they are the people who makes the hardware.....they are the best people at writing the drivers for them
[14:06] <MartijnVdS> ikonia-remote: except they don't know anything about the framework(s) they're programming for -- CUPS, the kernel, etc.
[14:06] <ikonia-remote> more so when most of the products are closed source, so they are the only people who can write teh drivers
[14:06] <ikonia-remote> MartijnVdS: you talk an amazing ammount of nonsense
[14:07] <ikonia-remote> people like HP are VERY aware of cups and the kernel
[14:07] <MartijnVdS> ikonia-remote: so they give you a blob that works for them.. and say "We support Linux! [X] Check"
[14:07] <ikonia-remote> MartijnVdS: no they don't
[14:07] <MartijnVdS> ikonia-remote: HP, yes. And wifi chipset devs are improving
[14:07] <ikonia-remote> MartijnVdS: do you have any idea of what you're saying or any factual information to back up what yo uare saying
[14:07] <ikonia-remote> HP wifi chipsets are improving.
[14:07] <MartijnVdS> ikonia-remote: Check the staging/ part of the kernel to see what I mean
[14:07] <ikonia-remote> they don't make a chipset
[14:07] <MartijnVdS> ikonia-remote: HP + Linux is fine, I know
[14:08] <ikonia-remote> and HP labs where the people who made wireless-tools
[14:08] <MartijnVdS> ikonia-remote: But other manufacturers tend to be bad.
[14:08] <ikonia-remote> MartijnVdS: no they don't
[14:08] <ikonia-remote> MartijnVdS: please give me an example
[14:08] <MartijnVdS> ikonia-remote: rt2x00
[14:09] <ikonia-remote_> sorry, my stupid web connection dropped
[14:09] <ikonia-remote_> didn't get your last message
[14:09] <MartijnVdS> ikonia-remote: rt2x00
[14:09] <MartijnVdS> ikonia-remote: most DVB hardware, too
[14:09] <ikonia-remote_> MartijnVdS: errrr no
[14:10] <ikonia-remote_> MartijnVdS: please show me a DVB hardware provider that has Linux support that doesn't actually work or has "bad" drivers as you call them
[14:11] <MartijnVdS> ikonia-remote_: twinhan
[14:11] <ikonia-remote_> MartijnVdS: so that says it supports linux but doesn't ?
[14:12] <MartijnVdS> ikonia-remote_: Well the linux-dvb community seems very separated from the "mainline" kernel people
[14:12] <ikonia-remote_> no, that's not what I asked
[14:12] <MartijnVdS> ikonia-remote_: and bugs don't get fixed for long times.
[14:12] <ikonia-remote_> http://linuxtv.org/wiki/index.php/TwinHan
[14:12] <ikonia-remote_> according to this only 2 devices are supported
[14:13] <ikonia-remote> in fact they appear to have removed Linux as a list of supported platforms
[14:13] <MartijnVdS> even worse, imho :)
[14:13] <ikonia-remote> not really
[14:14] <ikonia-remote> a company doesn't have to support Linux, in a lot of places it's not a worthwhle investment to do so, more so for rolling distros like ubuntu
[14:15] <MartijnVdS> Sure
[14:15] <MartijnVdS> But if they do, they should do it right or help other people do it right
[14:15] <ikonia-remote> MartijnVdS: name me one that doesn't do it right ?
[14:15] <MartijnVdS> because bad drivers are worse than no drivers, imho
[14:16] <MartijnVdS> ikonia-remote: like I said, since staging/ the kernel drivers are improving
[14:16] <ikonia-remote> MartijnVdS: name me one that doesn't do it right
[14:16] <MartijnVdS> nvidia ;)
[14:16] <ikonia-remote> MartijnVdS: nvidia do it fine, it's a closed source product
[14:16] <ikonia-remote> I don't agree it's a good solution, but it's actually one of the best closed source compatible options
[14:16] <ikonia-remote> MartijnVdS: you're making these wild statements but not really providing anything to back it up
[14:17] <ikonia-remote> copmanies should stop making bad driver............"who".............errrrrrrrr everyone
[14:17] <MartijnVdS> ikonia-remote: When I go buy a printer, I have to have my phone with me to check linuxprinting to see if it'll work properly.
[14:18] <ikonia-remote> MartijnVdS: that's not anything to do with bad drivers, that's general linux support
[14:18] <MartijnVdS> ikonia-remote: and I don't want to download untrusted(!) code from some random website (printer manufacturer) for it to work
[14:18] <ikonia-remote> ha ha ha ha ha
[14:18] <ikonia-remote> untrusted from the manufactures website
[14:18] <MartijnVdS> ikonia-remote: if it's not signed, it's untrusted.
[14:18] <ikonia-remote> MartijnVdS: please stop talking nonsense
[14:19] <MartijnVdS> ikonia-remote: Please stop talking.
[14:19] <ikonia-remote> MartijnVdS: so that means you don't use any external repos or PPA's?
[14:19] <ikonia-remote> or no software that is not in the ubuntu repos
[14:19] <ikonia-remote> do you use flash ?
[14:20] <ikonia-remote> MartijnVdS: so to confirm you only use software that is hosted within the ubuntu repos ?
[14:21] <ikonia-remote> oh dear, how dissapointed, your statments don't make sense so you've gone on mute.
[14:22] <MartijnVdS> ikonia-remote: You could try to be less argumentative about it, you know. Or help me make my point in a more constructive way and not shout me down at every opportunity.
[14:23] <ikonia-remote> MartijnVdS: then don't make bad statments as fact
[14:23] <MartijnVdS> ikonia-remote: or, you know, provide proof for your own statements too
[14:23] <ikonia-remote> MartijnVdS: what would you like proof of
[14:24] <ikonia-remote> MartijnVdS: I can't help you make your point......because it's wrong, which is why I was discussing it with you.
[14:24] <MartijnVdS> ikonia-remote: There you go again. "Inaccurate" doesn't have to mean "bad". I don't mean to insult anyone. I'm trying to describe how I feel I have to use things and what I do (and don't) like about it.
[14:25] <ikonia-remote> MartijnVdS: if you're making statements such as "vedors write bad drivers" or "software outside the repos" to people - that is wrong and missleading people, it's "bad"
[14:25] <MartijnVdS> ikonia-remote: OK, I should have worded that differently then.
[14:25] <ikonia-remote> in an ideal world everything would be open and distro maintainers could incorperate the packages they want, however, it's not. So you have to work with the situation
[14:26] <MartijnVdS> ikonia-remote: To answer your questions --  I use as little software from outside the main repo as possible.
[14:26] <ikonia-remote> MartijnVdS: ok - so then you use unstrusted software by your own statement
[14:26] <MartijnVdS> ikonia-remote: If we don't describe the perfect situation, we don't know what to work towards :)
[14:27] <ikonia-remote> MartijnVdS: you're not describing the perfect situation, you're just saying people make bad software
[14:27] <MartijnVdS> ikonia-remote: No, those repositories are signed by keys I trust
[14:27] <ikonia-remote> MartijnVdS: oh.....so how is a key you trust different from a website you trust
[14:27] <MartijnVdS> ikonia-remote: I can spoof DNS. I can't spoof a PGP signature.
[14:27] <ikonia-remote> oh really......come on
[14:28] <ikonia-remote> in that case, I don't trust ubuntu developers......I don't trust my ISP, I don't trust your machine has not been compromised and your keys changed
[14:28] <MartijnVdS> I think you're paranoid :)
[14:28] <ikonia-remote> we can go to that level if you want, or we can live in a realistic position
[14:28] <MartijnVdS> Time to go home.
[14:28] <ikonia-remote> how dissapointing
[14:28] <MartijnVdS> now you have to find another IRC punching bag? :P
[14:29] <ikonia-remote> not at all, it's a valid conversation
[14:29] <ikonia-remote> I wasn't trying to punch you, however you seem to come out with a lot of your views as "fact"
[14:32] <directhex> he's right, though
[14:32] <directhex> take a look at Canon's drivers for high-end ten grand printers
[14:33] <directhex> they were subcontracted to a teenager in Lyon. they only work on i386 with 2.2 kernel
[14:33] <ikonia-remote> I don't think he is "right",
[14:33] <ikonia-remote> if thats the documented support.......then that's the support
[14:33] <directhex> hardware vendors are often spectacularly bad at software engineering. when they keep stuff closed and unredistributable, there is no hope for fixing it
[14:34] <ikonia-remote> I don't agree with it, I don't buy cannon and brother for similar reasons
[14:34] <ikonia-remote> directhex: that's the point, it's closed, so what can you do ?
[14:34] <directhex> btw, the brother printer driver does sorta work. but the scanner driver will hose your install
[14:35] <ikonia-remote> the vendors are trying to write software for mulitple different distributions with different product versions (especially the rolling ones) they can either work within their limitations, or open the platform....which they won't do
[14:35] <directhex> at least you can print on tuesdays now on brother printers. that used to be broken :)
[14:35] <ikonia-remote> if distributions centralised their activities to few more supported distros you may see a change
[14:35] <ikonia-remote> doubtful, but possible
[14:35] <directhex> ikonia-remote, it's a distribution issue though - given Mac OS X uses CUPS (and apple bought the CUPS project), most mac printers are simple PPD files that work fine on ubuntu, whereas the linux downloads are often defective
[14:36] <directhex> there's the rule o' thumb: use mac drivers on linux, not linux drivers (!)
[14:36] <ikonia-remote> now that is an interesting point
[14:36] <ikonia-remote> is there a compatability list for the mac printer support (googling)
[14:37] <ikonia-remote> what the devil is an Apple printer ?
[14:37] <ikonia-remote> apple make their own printers ?
[14:38] <AlanBell> yes
[14:38] <ikonia-remote> I've never seen one
[14:38] <AlanBell> or they used to do so
[14:38] <ikonia-remote> massive brother and cannon support, directhex are you saying that's all in cups ?
[14:39] <directhex> ikonia-remote, some of it.
[14:39] <ikonia-remote> AlanBell: surprising ammount of legacy apple printers in mac os 10.6
[14:39] <directhex> now, here's how brother work it
[14:39] <ikonia-remote> directhex: ahhhh some of it,
[14:39] <directhex> it's "just" cups, but their cups ppd specifies to pass data through a filter
[14:39] <directhex> that filter is an i386 executable
[14:40] <directhex> so you can't use the brother ppd without the i386-only executable
[14:40] <directhex> short version: no printing on ARM gear
[14:40] <ikonia-remote> interesitng,
[14:41] <directhex> related note: need to configure my printer on my touchpad
[14:41] <AlanBell> printing through qemu :)
[14:42] <ikonia-remote> I wonder if that factor is one of the limiting reasons the ipad/iphone has limited HP printer support
[14:43] <AlanBell> dunno why printers don't just do postscript, end of story.
[14:43] <directhex> AlanBell, cheaper to use the host cpu than add a cpu to the printer
[14:44] <directhex> nothing to config. it autodetected the printer, i can just print from printer dialogs
[14:47] <ikonia-remote> directhex: is that from the tablet ?
[14:48] <directhex> yeah
[14:48] <ikonia-remote> directhex: to what printer ?
[14:49] <directhex> an hp inkjet w/ wifi
[14:49] <ikonia-remote> directhex: that's cool, I've got a reasonable HP inkjet (C8100-something) and neither my ipad or iphone can printer to it over the wireless network or bluetooth
[14:49] <directhex> i need to buy a dongle for bluetooth on it
[14:49] <directhex> cba
[14:50] <ikonia-remote> there is a list of these HP cloud printing printers that the iphone/ipad support.....other than that, you can't print. Which is poor show
[14:50] <ikonia-remote> airprint - that's what it's called
[14:50] <ikonia-remote> couldn't remember
[15:10] <ikonia-remote> thought about upgrading my printer based on some of the conversations in here, the HP 8500 pro deskjet seems a reasonable device, however there appears to be many models called the HP  8500 pro desktop with a £150 price difference from £140 to £299......seems a bit mental as there isn't good details as to what is different beyond wireless/not wireless networking
[15:26] <HazRPG> \o I'm awake honest o.O
[15:26] <HazRPG> *runs to grab a either a blank CD or DVD lying around*
[15:45] <daubers> Afternoon
[15:45]  * daubers has made jam
[16:22] <MartijnVdS> is it good jam?
[16:23] <GreenDance> Hi
[16:23] <GreenDance> when a release of ubuntu reaches eol, does that mean it's cut-off from updates
[16:23] <GreenDance> meaning an upgrade is needed
[16:29] <GreenDance> I was wondering, is the sudo in ubuntu the same as the sudo in debian?
[16:29] <brobostigon> i believe so, yes.
[16:33] <GreenDance> brobostigon
[16:33] <GreenDance> brobostigon, if the gui is removed from ubuntu desktop distro, does that make the cli install the same as ubuntu server?
[16:34] <AlanBell> nope
[16:34] <brobostigon> GreenDance: good question, no idea.
[16:34] <AlanBell> different kernel amongst other things
[16:34] <brobostigon> :)
[16:34] <GreenDance> AlanBell, ubuntu server stronger than ubuntu desktop?
[16:35] <AlanBell> err, not sure what that means
[16:35] <GreenDance> AlanBell, ubuntu server more secure than ubuntu desktop *
[16:35] <GreenDance> ?
[16:35] <AlanBell> no
[16:35] <GreenDance> but different kernels?
[16:35] <AlanBell> optimised differently
[16:36] <GreenDance> AlanBell, ok, so if you install gnome on ubuntu server, would it preform better than ubuntu desktop distro?
[16:37] <AlanBell> no
[16:37]  * GreenDance scratches his head
[16:38] <AlanBell> you would be unlikely to notice the difference, but the server is optimised for server type workloads and the desktop kernel is optimised for desktop type workloads
[16:38] <GreenDance> Ah!
[16:38] <GreenDance> right
[16:38] <GreenDance> got-cha :)
[16:39] <GreenDance> so ubuntu is better than debian :D
[16:39] <brobostigon> dpends on your preference.
[16:39] <brobostigon> each is designed for different applications.
[16:41] <brobostigon> i am on my eeepc right now, so i use debian, it is lighter in certain ways than ubuntu, and less resource heavy in certain ways.
[16:42] <GreenDance> :)
[16:44]  * daubers has pondered just running ubuntu server on his eeepc
[16:44] <daubers> as I tend to boot it, load a terminal and then do everything in vim
[16:46] <GreenDance> brobostigon, which window manager do you use?
[16:48] <brobostigon> GreenDance: mutter.
[16:49] <Earthling> Bored
[16:50] <brobostigon> eeek. logged into irc as root, bad idea Earthling.
[16:51] <Earthling> Im old school
[16:51] <GreenDance> playing with the new ubuntu, i'm not one for the unity, i prefer the standard d/e
[16:51] <Earthling> Hack of and I would pay a thousand
[16:51] <Earthling> Me
[16:52] <Earthling> Ah I love stroking my route
[16:52] <Earthling> How many bounces tonight sir?
[16:52] <GreenDance> is it just me or is it that unity looks like osx?
[16:52] <Earthling> Unity is a sack of cow pat
[16:53] <Earthling> Osx looks like unity though
[16:54] <GreenDance> AlanBell, can anyone watch tonights meeting?
[16:54] <brobostigon> Earthling: old school has nothing to do with it, running your irc client as root is just plain stupid, however if you want to take that risk, that is your choice.
[16:55] <brobostigon> GreenDance: take part in tonights meeting, yes definatly.
[16:55] <Earthling> Lol oh you are cute
[16:55] <GreenDance> brobostigon, seriousally? take part
[16:55] <GreenDance> brobostigon, yes please
[16:55] <brobostigon> GreenDance: yes, of course. :)
[16:55] <GreenDance> brobostigon, fantastic :)
[16:55]  * GreenDance is excited
[16:55] <brobostigon> GreenDance: it is in #ubuntu-uk-meeting
[16:55] <Earthling> I am root I am root I am root! So what? Please poke me! You will just get something else.
[16:58] <suprengr_> Earthling, I remember that recently at least two dictators have boasted themselves indefeatable as well ;D
[16:59] <Earthling> Be my guest. Like I care. Its just a box. Lol
[16:59]  * suprengr_ has better things to poke than a box ;)
[17:00] <MartijnVdS> suprengr_: pokemon!
[17:01]  * suprengr_ slaps own wrist - reminds self this is a family channel
[17:01] <suprengr_> MartijnVdS, just seen yours - nice one!
[17:08] <daubers> Who chaired the last meeting?
[17:08] <AlanBell> me I think
[17:08]  * daubers notes the agenda is out of date, and there are no meeting notes for the last one :)
[17:08] <AlanBell> it was the pre-reapproval one
[17:09] <AlanBell> gah
[17:09]  * AlanBell will fix
[17:09] <daubers> Also, I'm going out with the inlaws this evening so won't be able to make the meeting. My apologies for that
[17:10] <brobostigon> have fun daubers :)
[17:11] <AlanBell> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/MeetingNotes/20110809
[17:12] <AlanBell> do we have a volunteer to take the chair?
[17:13] <GreenDance> AlanBell, what would the chair have to do?
[17:13] <AlanBell> run the bot and keep things moving
[17:13]  * mgdm takes the chair and runs away with it
[17:14] <AlanBell> watch one and you can chair the next
[17:14] <AlanBell> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/Meeting/Guidelines
[17:14] <GreenDance> I will watch tonight's to see how the process goes :).
[17:15]  * TheOpenSourcerer should be around if you need a chair :-)
[17:16] <AlanBell> done
[17:16] <daubers> AlanBell: Should probably cover some of the stuff in http://blip.tv/episode/5504447
[17:16] <ikonia-remote> am I still connected ?
[17:16] <ikonia-remote> ahh, yes
[17:17] <AlanBell> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeamMeetingAgenda please add items
[17:17] <AlanBell> daubers: cool, glad that is up now :)
[17:17]  * TheOpenSourcerer points directhex here: http://techcrunch.com/2011/08/29/cyanogenmod-team-gets-android-working-on-hp-touchpad/
[17:17] <daubers> AlanBell: 2 left I think
[17:18] <ikonia-remote> TheOpenSourcerer: be interested in seeing the definitinon of "working", reading that now
[17:19] <ikonia-remote> why the devil do you need lvm support on a touchpad
[17:22] <daubers> AlanBell: I think the video stuff went quite well for a first run
[17:27] <AlanBell> yeah, and you did an awesome job on the encoding
[17:28] <daubers> I think I've sussed how to make it much better next year, including automating the title text if  can get it to connect to campfire manager
[17:29] <daubers> Would also mean we could stick a monster encoding machine somewhere to just eat the streams and encode as it goes
[17:29] <daubers> Also, I want to see how powerful gstreamer can really be
[17:39]  * AlanBell contemplates purchasing http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/280716112085?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649
[17:41]  * penguin42 had expected some super geeky technical item to talk about
[17:44] <AlanBell> not this time :)
[17:44] <penguin42> don't drop table;
[17:44] <penguin42> sorry, best I can do
[17:46] <AlanBell> good effort ;)
[17:55]  * daubers goes to the pub
[17:56] <directhex> TheOpenSourcerer: urgh.
[18:03] <ikonia-remote> directhex: please tell me you wear the holster
[18:03]  * suprengr turns Ch4+1 to watch Simpsons Halloween Special
[18:06] <directhex> ikonia-remote: nope. but i remember many years ago seeing mobile phone holsters in pc magazines
[18:06] <ikonia-remote> directhex: please get one, I want a photo of you wearing one
[18:10] <zleap> hi
[18:11] <zleap> where does apt store .deb files
[18:11] <zleap> hi
[18:14] <zleap> hi
[18:14] <MartijnVdS> zleap: in /var/cache/apt
[18:15] <zleap> synaptic is telling me i need to reinstall the brother printer package dcp310cnlpr but it can't find an archive
[18:15] <zleap> i have copied the 2 .deb packages to the above location what else should i try and do
[18:15] <zleap> note nothing now works with synaptic
[18:15] <zleap> internal error opening cache (1) please report
[18:16] <MartijnVdS> zleap: open a terminal, and type: dpkg --configure -a, please
[18:16] <zleap> as root
[18:16] <zleap> or as sudo
[18:16] <MartijnVdS> sudo dpkg --configure -a
[18:16] <zleap> ok
[18:16] <zleap> i didn't get any errors or messages from that
[18:18] <MartijnVdS> zleap: ok.. sudo apt-get -f install
[18:18] <zleap> ok from that i get the message
[18:18] <MartijnVdS> zleap: please put it in pastebin :)
[18:19] <zleap> E: the package dcp310cnlpr needs to be reinstalled but i can't find an archive for it
[18:19] <MartijnVdS> zleap: ok.. do you still have the .deb?
[18:19] <zleap> yes
[18:19] <MartijnVdS> zleap: sudo dpkg -i that_package.deb
[18:20] <zleap> ok i will attempt to use paste bin then try and copy the right link to netbook
[18:21] <zleap> http://pastebin.com/2PbQUQmP
[18:21] <MartijnVdS> ah
[18:22] <MartijnVdS> zleap: that package is very broken.. it requires lprng (which nobody uses anymore).
[18:22] <zleap> well the printer now works
[18:22] <zleap> so how do i get my printer working with ubuntu
[18:22] <MartijnVdS> zleap: to fix it, remove the line that tries to start "lprng" from /var/lib/dpkg/info/dcp310cnlpr.postrm (and .postinst)
[18:23] <MartijnVdS> wait no
[18:23] <MartijnVdS> that will only fix removing that package
[18:23] <MartijnVdS> not installing
[18:23] <MartijnVdS> as I said .. the package is broken
[18:23] <zleap> installing is a mess,  as it uses csh to install
[18:23] <MartijnVdS> it might work now, but now apt is  broken
[18:23] <zleap> yeah
[18:23] <zleap> so i need to fix apt without breaking the printer
[18:23] <TheOpenSourcerer> bloody ethernet switches. They're everywhere!
[18:24] <MartijnVdS> zleap: hacking in /var/lib/dpkg/info/packagename.post{inst,rm} is deep voodoo, but it's the only way to get apt to work again on your system
[18:24] <TheOpenSourcerer> Trying to get a wireshark trace of what my nanode is up to
[18:24] <TheOpenSourcerer> but I don't have a hub.
[18:24] <zleap> ok
[18:24] <TheOpenSourcerer> Any suggestions how to capture the traffic?
[18:24] <AlanBell> TheOpenSourcerer: I have some redundant hubs
[18:25] <TheOpenSourcerer> Do you?
[18:25] <MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: hub, or second ethernet port in a PC that you bridge with the "real" ethernet
[18:25] <TheOpenSourcerer> Even the bloody router appears to be switched.
[18:25] <AlanBell> ADSL modem/router
[18:25] <zleap> i cd to dcp310cnlpr.postinst
[18:25] <MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: or arp poisoning :)
[18:25] <MartijnVdS> zleap: you've never edited shell scripts before, have you?
[18:26] <MartijnVdS> zleap: because this might get messy quick :(
[18:26] <zleap> not that much
[18:26] <AlanBell> I have two ADSL routers that are 4 port hubs
[18:26] <MartijnVdS> zleap: the .postinst should be a file (shell script) that does lots of things, starting/stopping lprng among others
[18:26] <zleap> k
[18:26] <TheOpenSourcerer> I have an old router which I think is a hub.... Might drag that out of retirement and gic it a go.
[18:26] <MartijnVdS> zleap: you need to rip out the "lprng" bits, without breaking the shell script
[18:26] <TheOpenSourcerer> s/gic/give
[18:27] <MartijnVdS> zleap: then dpkg --remove should work (then you can't print anymore, but apt will work again)
[18:27] <zleap> great
[18:27] <MartijnVdS> zleap: I don't  think you can install the package properly without lprng installed
[18:27] <MartijnVdS> because you can't intercept postinst scripts in time
[18:27] <zleap> so i need to ask brother to do a proper job with the printer driver
[18:27] <MartijnVdS> zleap: what's the model?
[18:27] <zleap> dcp310cn
[18:27] <MartijnVdS> zleap: how is it connected?
[18:27] <ikonia-remote> zleap: does it not complain about missing dependencies ?
[18:27] <zleap> network
[18:28] <MartijnVdS> zleap: then it probably just works anyway
[18:28] <MartijnVdS> zleap: let me check
[18:28] <zleap> ok
[18:28] <zleap> i am sure before i have grabbed a ppd file and told cups where it is
[18:29] <zleap> then its worked,  i had to fix things before as their scripts were looking for non existant directories so created them manually
[18:30] <MartijnVdS> zleap: first, let's get your system working again :)
[18:30] <MartijnVdS> zleap: then worry about the printer
[18:30] <zleap> ok
[18:31] <zleap> ok i am in the directory with the scripts in
[18:31] <MartijnVdS> zleap: /var/lib/dpkg/info ?
[18:31] <zleap> yeah
[18:31] <MartijnVdS> zleap: sudo gedit dcp310cnlpr.postrm
[18:32] <zleap> k
[18:32] <zleap> ok there is a line with lprng
[18:32] <MartijnVdS> zleap: can  you pastebin it and the lines around it?
[18:32] <MartijnVdS> (2-3 should be enough)
[18:33] <zleap> yeah
[18:33] <GreenDance> has anyone here ever replaced the power jack on a laptop before?
[18:34] <zleap> http://pastebin.com/7r64ekNC
[18:34] <MartijnVdS> zleap: does /etc/init.d/lprng exist?!
[18:34] <zleap> not sure
[18:34] <MartijnVdS> if it does.. why?! :)
[18:34] <MartijnVdS> you don't want lpr or lprng.. you want the CUPS version of everything
[18:35] <zleap> ok
[18:35] <zleap> i just run install scripts to install drivers
[18:35] <MartijnVdS> don't ;)
[18:35] <MartijnVdS> I saw two options on the brother site: one for lpr/lprng, one for cups
[18:36] <zleap> ok
[18:36] <MartijnVdS> I think you've downloaded the wrong one of the two. But let's fix it :)
[18:36] <zleap> i got the impression from the site i needed bothj
[18:36] <MartijnVdS> nah'
[18:36] <zleap> or one expects the otehr or it did a few years ago
[18:36] <MartijnVdS> it's either/or
[18:36] <zleap> k
[18:36] <zleap> ok
[18:36] <MartijnVdS> though if it's a networked printer, I wonder why it needs special drivers at all
[18:37] <MartijnVdS> most of those speak "proper" printer languages, like PCL or PostScript
[18:37] <zleap> cos lookng at the supported printer list in cups my printer isn't listed
[18:37] <zleap> i go to add printer
[18:37] <MartijnVdS> I know I know
[18:37] <zleap> ok so lprng exists
[18:37] <MartijnVdS> zleap: ok, dpkg --purge lprng :)
[18:38] <MartijnVdS> that'll remove lprng
[18:38] <MartijnVdS> and that should automagically fix the package reinstall (dpkg -i)
[18:38] <zleap> er ok its telling me its not installed
[18:38] <MartijnVdS> zleap: dpkg -S /etc/init.d/lprng
[18:39] <penguin42> pity, I like lprng
[18:39] <zleap> no path found matching pattern /etc/init.d/lprng
[18:39] <MartijnVdS> zleap: what's in that file?
[18:40] <zleap> well its a script
[18:40] <MartijnVdS> zleap: sure, but it should come from somewhere :)
[18:41] <MartijnVdS> zleap: can you move it to ~root (sudo mv /etc/init.d/lprng ~root)
[18:41] <MartijnVdS> zleap: that should ALSO fix  the problem.. though hacky
[18:41] <MartijnVdS> and it's strange that a script that's not under package management is on your system
[18:41] <zleap> i take it if i am inj that directory i don't need the path
[18:41] <MartijnVdS> zleap: best to include it if you do rooty things
[18:42] <MartijnVdS> Just in case
[18:42] <zleap> oh its ~root
[18:42] <MartijnVdS> ~root = /root :)
[18:43] <MartijnVdS> usually
[18:43] <zleap> ok sorry i thought you did - not ~ small screen
[18:43] <zleap> ok
[18:43] <zleap> that seems to be done
[18:43] <MartijnVdS> ok.. now do the sudo dpkg -i again
[18:45] <zleap> erm
[18:45] <zleap> can i search back through the chat window to find it
[18:45] <MartijnVdS> zleap: sudo dpkg -i the_file_you_downloaded.deb
[18:47] <zleap> that should reinstall it
[18:47] <MartijnVdS> yes
[18:47] <MartijnVdS> but that shuold work now
[18:47] <zleap> what did we do with that lprng file just move it or got it out the way
[18:47] <MartijnVdS> zleap: moved it out of the way, so the install script doesn't see it there
[18:47] <MartijnVdS> zleap: so it doesn't try to run it
[18:47] <MartijnVdS> (because running it fails)
[18:47] <zleap> so if its renamed it doesn't matter
[18:48] <MartijnVdS> no, as long as there's no file named "lprng" or "lpr" in /etc/init.d
[18:49] <zleap> ok
[18:51] <zleap> pastebin.com/WTuLdUMD
[18:52] <MartijnVdS> zleap: there's an /etc/init.d/lpd as well?
[18:52] <MartijnVdS> zleap: I think you've installed some packages you don't want
[18:52] <MartijnVdS> zleap: and it's going to be hard to clean up
[18:53] <zleap> yeah
[18:53] <zleap> grrr.  why can't things be easy to use
[18:53] <MartijnVdS> zleap: you shuoldn't have installed lpd and lprng :)
[18:53] <zleap> so should i remove the lpd file too
[18:53] <zleap> well i fiollow instructions
[18:53] <MartijnVdS> zleap: dpkg -l lpd
[18:53] <MartijnVdS> zleap: and dpkg -l lprng
[18:53] <MartijnVdS> please
[18:54] <zleap> ohh ok
[18:54] <zleap> i have removedf lpr
[18:55] <MartijnVdS> zleap: the package, or the file?
[18:55] <zleap> file
[18:55] <MartijnVdS> ok
[18:55] <zleap> as it won't remove the package
[18:55] <MartijnVdS> then try dpkg -i again
[18:55] <zleap> i did
[18:55] <zleap> it wants the directories /var/spool/lpd/DCP310CN
[18:56] <MartijnVdS> :(
[18:56] <zleap> which i had this issue before and did it manually
[18:56] <MartijnVdS> Maybe someone else can help you, I have to go afk in a few minutes
[18:56] <zleap> ok i created those and its happy with installing
[18:57] <zleap> does dpkg -r remove a package
[18:57] <zleap> thanks for your help
[18:58] <zleap> yay thats fixed it
[18:59] <suprengr> have a peek at slashdot's:  http://interviews.slashdot.org/story/11/08/29/1737257/Ask-Kevin-Mitnick
[19:00]  * MartijnVdS whistles in suprengr's phone and calls for free
[19:00] <suprengr> [especially anyone boasting re using IRC as root] ;)
[19:01]  * suprengr notices a sudden rise in phone bill :(
[19:03] <MartijnVdS> Time.. for something to drink
[19:04] <suprengr> MartijnVdS, cheers - just grabbed one [glug]
[19:04] <MartijnVdS> suprengr: I'm sticking to water :)
[19:05] <suprengr> [but so am i!]
[19:05] <Guest74831> evening all
[19:05]  * suprengr wonders why nose is growing
[19:06] <TheOpenSourcerer> Annoyingly my old router also appears to be a switch rather than a hub.
[19:06] <TheOpenSourcerer> /me makes note to self to go and buy a cheap 4 port HUB for sniffing duty.
[19:06] <MartijnVdS> they don't exist anymore, TheOpenSourcerer
[19:06] <MartijnVdS> VERY hard to find, anyway
[19:09] <TheOpenSourcerer> MartijnVdS: That would appear to be the case. So how do peeps sniff now then?
[19:10] <MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: you take a machine with 2 network cards, bridge the cards and attach the device to sniff to one card, and "the network" to the other
[19:10] <TheOpenSourcerer> OK - thanks.
[19:10] <MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: you assign an IP to/dhcp on the br0 interface of that host (so you can actually use it for "normal" interwebs)
[19:11] <TheOpenSourcerer> My desktop only has one LAN port...
[19:11] <TheOpenSourcerer> My laptop only has one too.
[19:11] <TheOpenSourcerer> My little server (headless, no gui) has two
[19:11] <MartijnVdS> PCI cards/USB LAN dongles are cheap
[19:11] <TheOpenSourcerer> yeah
[19:12] <MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: wireshark/tcpdump dump files can be shipped across the network :)
[19:12] <ikonia-remote> TheOpenSourcerer: is this for practice/interest or for a real problem
[19:12] <TheOpenSourcerer> ikonia-remote: Both.
[19:13] <ikonia-remote> TheOpenSourcerer: if it's practice just use a cross-over cable or a switched network card and 1 cable to sniff between PC's
[19:13] <ikonia-remote> TheOpenSourcerer: what is the real issue (not the practice stuff)
[19:13] <TheOpenSourcerer> I have a nanode (like an arduino) that I am playing with but there is a problem with a data feed from Pachube.com I am trying to debug it by getting a full trace.
[19:13] <MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: can't the nanode run tcpdump? or is it too light for that?
[19:15] <TheOpenSourcerer> Hmmm - MartijnVdS This looks promising: http://biot.com/blog/usb-sniffing-on-linux
[19:15] <MartijnVdS> that's USB sniffing
[19:15] <MartijnVdS> not network sniffing :)
[19:15] <zleap> MartijnVdS, i think i got it all working now it appears there is a package with the right bits in
[19:15] <ikonia-remote> the usb-sniffing-on-linux gives it away
[19:15] <MartijnVdS> ikonia-remote: well, yes
[19:16] <TheOpenSourcerer> Yeah - but it sounds like the arduino sends lots of data that way.
[19:16] <ikonia-remote> MartijnVdS: put your machine (if it has 2 network cards) between the device and the network
[19:16] <MartijnVdS> ikonia-remote: but USB doesn't do switches, only hubs really :)
[19:16] <ikonia-remote> TheOpenSourcerer: the arduino sends data by USB ?
[19:16] <MartijnVdS> ikonia-remote: I know, that's what I told him :)
[19:16] <ikonia-remote> MartijnVdS: sorry, I meant that for TheOpenSourcerer
[19:23]  * TheOpenSourcerer installs dsniff
[19:23] <MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: dsniff has some nice tools in it, also try wireshark (and its terminal brother, tshark)
[19:25] <TheOpenSourcerer> MartijnVdS: I have wireshark - that's what I've been using - does that have some arpspoofing integrated?
[19:25] <MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: I don't think so
[19:25] <TheOpenSourcerer> Yeah - I still need to set up arpspoof first
[19:26] <MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: oh you're not going the bridge/2 interfaces route?
[19:28] <GreenDance> I was just wondering, what makes gnome so hardware hungry?
[19:28] <TheOpenSourcerer> MartijnVdS: This would appear to be easier and quicker.
[19:33] <MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: that method also works for VMs :)
[19:35] <ali1234> GreenDance: do you mean gnome 2 or gnome 3?
[19:35] <GreenDance> ali1234, gnome 2
[19:36] <ali1234> mainly the memory leaks then
[19:37] <ali1234> gnome developers seem to have a policy of never calling free() unless someone reports it as a bug
[19:38] <ali1234> or maybe it is just because C makes memory management hard
[19:40] <gord> because gnome is written in GObject which handles memory management for you
[19:40] <AlanBell> freakyclown: u r wanted in #oggcamp
[19:53] <TheOpenSourcerer> Team Meeting in 7 minutes all
[19:57] <suprengr> tik toc - tic tok
[20:29] <ikonia-remote> I've just visitied www.bbc.co.uk and its got adverts on it ?
[20:30] <bigcalm> ikonia: what country are you in?
[20:30] <ikonia-remote> Brazil at the moment
[20:31] <bigcalm> Then you will see adverts on bbc.co.uk websites
[20:31] <bigcalm> It's only advert free in the UK
[20:31] <ikonia-remote> I had no idea they did that
[20:31] <ikonia-remote> was quite a shock as the sheer volume and size of the averts is quite shocking
[20:31] <bigcalm> I didn't until I heard people complain about it a while ago
[20:32] <Myrtti> I was going to say I've never seen any adverts on it while in Finland
[20:32] <Myrtti> then I realised why
[20:32] <ikonia-remote> that's quite an agressive bit of work for each hit, to do a look up, and work out if it's a UK IP
[20:32] <ikonia-remote> Myrtti: proxy ?
[20:32] <bigcalm> Myrtti: UK proxy?
[20:32] <bigcalm> ABP?
[20:33] <Myrtti> simpler than that - I've been using Adblock and the predecessors since 2002 or so
[20:33] <ikonia-remote> ha
[20:33]  * bigcalm nods
[20:33] <Myrtti> I've actually donated to the chrome adblock
[20:33] <ikonia-remote> it looks less credible as a site with the size and volumes of ads
[20:33] <Myrtti> anyway
[20:33] <ikonia-remote> I'm sure it's because I'm used to seeing it without adds
[20:33] <ikonia-remote> ads
[20:38] <Azelphur> http://newtech.aurum3.com/images/scottevest.jpg anyone happen to know of anything like that but without the $200 price tag? :D
[20:41] <ikonia-remote> seems quite a reasonable price
[20:41] <Azelphur> 120 quid + shipping/import is pretty expensive for a coat
[20:42] <DJones> Azelphur: The coat is free, you're paying for the storage cupboard :)
[20:42] <Azelphur> hahaha
[20:44] <Azelphur> http://external.ak.fbcdn.net/safe_image.php?d=AQAsv7VqNeC8ugek&url=http%3A%2F%2Fgadgetcrave.frsucrave.netdna-cdn.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2010%2F07%2Fscottevestcoat.jpg omg even more xD
[20:50] <ikonia-remote> Azelphur: I think £120 for a coat is quite reasonable, I have coats which cost more, so it seems a reasonable price
[20:50] <ikonia-remote> a good coat will cost £70 - £200 (not designer stuff, just a good coat)
[20:50] <Azelphur> *shrug* I've never spent more than £10 on any article of clothing
[20:50] <Azelphur> £70 would be stretching it, I'd want it to have solar panels for that :D
[20:57] <ikonia-remote> what was the "Reapproval" being discussed in the -uk meeting ?
[20:57] <ikonia-remote> or mentioned in the topic
[20:57] <AlanBell> hi ikonia-remote
[20:57] <ikonia-remote> hello there
[20:57] <AlanBell> it was the LoCo team reapproval with the LoCo council
[20:58] <AlanBell> every two years we have to demonstrate our awesomeness
[20:58] <ikonia-remote> do you have to get the team re-approved on a regular basis ?
[20:58] <ikonia-remote> ahh, every 2 years
[20:58] <AlanBell> so they keep sending us CDs and other swag
[20:58] <ikonia-remote> from what I've seen / read the -uk team is one of the more real and active teams
[20:58] <AlanBell> like a tablecloth that Daviey has
[20:58] <AlanBell> actually we are middling
[20:59] <ikonia-remote> how are teams like the malta team getting re-approved, that's been in dead state for years
[20:59] <AlanBell> France gets 5000 people to their launch parties
[21:00] <ikonia-remote> AlanBell: it's not all about the numbers....I can get 5000 to a party with "ubuntu launch party, FREE BEER" signs, it's about quality
[21:00] <AlanBell> sure
[21:00] <AlanBell> we have a lot of individuals that do amazing stuff
[21:00] <czajkowski> ikonia-remote: eh the french party is quality
[21:01] <ikonia-remote> it's nice that you have to be re-approved, I'm just surprised as so many logo teams have just sat in nothingness for longer than 2 years
[21:01] <ikonia-remote> loco
[21:01] <czajkowski> and don't advertise free beer
[21:01] <czajkowski> what do you mean nothingness?
[21:01] <ikonia-remote> czajkowski: I've heard they advertise free netbooks to each attendee
[21:01] <AlanBell> but in terms of team activity we are not anywhere near the top
[21:01] <ikonia-remote> AlanBell: again....quality......
[21:01] <czajkowski> ikonia-remote: that's a bit different than  fRee beer now don't you think
[21:02] <ikonia-remote> czajkowski: I was joking on both
[21:02] <AlanBell> ikonia-remote: stuff like the Italian team ISO testing project is a huge thing they do
[21:02] <ikonia-remote> AlanBell: I obviously don't follow what all locos do, I just see this one as one of the rarer ones that do "something"
[21:02] <ikonia-remote> AlanBell: what's -uk's stand out "thing" ?
[21:02] <AlanBell> we do indeed do something :)
[21:03] <ikonia-remote> (assuming there is one thing that is the selling point)
[21:03] <czajkowski> locos differ I guess, ireland has 3 jams next weekend, will all be kinda small, but will be taking part
[21:03] <AlanBell> well we did do the en_GB translation for one
[21:03] <AlanBell> we have nothing much planned for the global jam
[21:03] <ikonia-remote> czajkowski: yes, I have no issue with that
[21:03] <czajkowski> ikonia-remote: glad you approve :)
[21:04] <ikonia-remote> czajkowski: I don't think it has to be big, but I'd like to see people do "something" so many locos just exist
[21:04] <ikonia-remote> although I wasn't aware of how big things like the -it ones are
[21:04] <AlanBell> ikonia-remote: the grey ones are not approved http://loco.ubuntu.com/teams/
[21:05] <AlanBell> the ones with the colour logos are doing enough to meet the requirements for approval
[21:05] <ikonia-remote> so if you're not approved....does that mean you have to shut up shop ? or just carry on as an unofficial/unapproved team
[21:05] <AlanBell> no, you carry right along
[21:05] <AlanBell> and get help from the LoCo council if required
[21:05] <ikonia-remote> ah, so it's a guidence thing
[21:05] <AlanBell> sometimes
[21:06] <ikonia-remote> you're not hitting the criteria, lets help
[21:06] <AlanBell> some teams are cool with not being approved, they don't get the CDs, but don't really care
[21:06] <ikonia-remote> ok, so it's not the worst thing in the world to not be approved
[21:07] <AlanBell> no, but it would be pretty embarrassing if we had lost it
[21:07] <ikonia-remote> sorry, I wasn't saying it was worthless,
[21:07] <ikonia-remote> I didn't mean that at all
[21:08] <AlanBell> I understand what you mean
[21:08] <GreenDance> AlanBell, when the UK won, can I ask, what did they send you?
[21:08] <AlanBell> heh
[21:08] <AlanBell> "won" isn't quite right
[21:08] <AlanBell> they send us CDs every release
[21:08] <GreenDance> sorry
[21:09] <AlanBell> I have a decent stash of them still
[21:09] <GreenDance> ok  :)
[21:09] <AlanBell> I was hoping to get rid of more of them at oggcamp than I did
[21:09] <GreenDance> AlanBell, do you only have 11.04?
[21:09] <AlanBell> http://ubuntu-uk.org/free-cds/
[21:09] <GreenDance> I am on that page already :D
[21:09] <AlanBell> yeah, 11.04 Ubuntu Kubuntu and Server
[21:09] <ikonia-remote> AlanBell: UK has too good an internet service for people to not have them, plus the Linux Format magazine keeps people stocked
[21:11] <AlanBell> yes, but people like the official ones still, and they are good to hand out at events
[21:11] <czajkowski> yup if teams don't need them
[21:11] <czajkowski> they don't have to order them either
[21:11] <AlanBell> when do we order the 11.10 ones?
[21:11] <ikonia-remote> AlanBell: can you order how many you want ? or just a shed load turns up
[21:11] <AlanBell> 250 turn up
[21:12] <czajkowski> AlanBell: close to release date
[21:12] <ikonia-remote> that's not massivly over kill then
[21:12] <AlanBell> no, it is fine
[21:12] <AlanBell> I got them late this cycle because of an ordering mixup, I hope to have them closer  to the release date next time
[21:12] <GreenDance> AlanBell, when you get a shipment of new cds, do you get rid of the old ones first?
[21:13] <GreenDance> 'get rid' send them out first*
[21:13] <AlanBell> I am trying to!
[21:13] <AlanBell> I was hoping they would go at oggcamp
[21:13] <AlanBell> the Ubuntu Server ones are rather pointless
[21:14] <GreenDance> why's that?
[21:14] <suprengr> AlanBell,  artistic note: had a look - just out of curiosity - that server cover is soo much more a cooler thing than the desktop cover
[21:14] <AlanBell> GreenDance: I wouldn't give it to a random windows/mac user
[21:14] <GreenDance> AlanBell, fair enough
[21:14] <AlanBell> and most people who want an Ubuntu server CD will download and burn, or spin up an EC2 machine from the EC2 images
[21:15] <AlanBell> the CD wallets are nice, just folded card, but on the inside there is a hidden image of the narwhal tail
[21:15] <GreenDance> CDs are great for people who have restricted internet allowance
[21:16] <AlanBell> yeah, or people who just want to try it
[21:17] <suprengr> AlanBell, yum - narwhal tail soup
[21:17] <ikonia-remote> I never think the running from CD is a good experience for people to try, issues with the video card config, performance issues running in ram/cd, things like flash / audio / video codecs not running
[21:17] <ikonia-remote> too many "X doesn't work ,ubuntu sucks"
[21:20] <AlanBell> and your better alternative is . . .
[21:21] <TheOpenSourcerer> AlanBell: How does the meeting page get created then? It doesn't appear to be here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/MeetingNotes
[21:22] <AlanBell> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/MeetingNotes/20110829 put it there
[21:30] <TheOpenSourcerer> Is there a "caching" thing going on with the LastMeeting redirect?
[21:30] <AlanBell> probably
[21:31] <AlanBell> yes
[21:32] <AlanBell> well that sucks
[21:32] <TheOpenSourcerer> indeed
[21:32] <AlanBell> I think it might have changed the redirect type with the wiki upgrade
[21:36] <AlanBell> bother, I changed it to an include rather than a redirect and it still bounces firefox across!
[21:36] <TheOpenSourcerer> I'll mail the list with a link to the actual page for the time being then.
[21:37] <AlanBell> ok
[21:39] <AlanBell> must be a 301 permanent redirect now
[21:40] <TheOpenSourcerer> Have you finished editing the Agenda for next time? I'm updating it with the actions etc.
[21:40] <AlanBell> yes, I didn't edit it
[21:40] <TheOpenSourcerer> This page was opened for editing or last previewed at 2011-08-29 21:34:30 by alanbell.
[21:40] <TheOpenSourcerer>  You should refrain from editing this page for at least another 7 minute(s), to avoid editing conflicts.
[21:41] <AlanBell> yeah, I edited it and closed it without saving
[21:41] <TheOpenSourcerer> ok
[21:51] <TheOpenSourcerer> OK - Time for bed. NN all.
[21:53] <suprengr> yup - me too - just as soon as Buzzcocks finishes [gotta getta dose-a Buzzcoks] ;)
[22:01] <suprengr> zzz
[22:52] <ikonia-remote> GreenDance: ping