[02:02] <micahg> ugh, indicators seem broke on armel
[03:26] <micahg> was missing xfce4-indicator-plugin...wonder what's missing dependencies
[09:02] <knome> charlie-tca, https://code.launchpad.net/~knome/debian-cd/xubuntu-logo/+merge/72497
[09:02] <knome> charlie-tca, as long as there is no progress on that, there is no way the logo would be on the livecd
[09:03] <knome> charlie-tca, so you might want to subscribe to the branch
[09:14] <Unit193> Not bad, but you didn't add glow to it? ;)
[09:18] <knome> i did
[09:22] <Unit193> Hmmm... Ok, I'll wait since seems I'm looking at the wrong image :P
[09:25] <Unit193> Anywho, nice update, maybe I should try sleep :P
[09:25] <Unit193> Mon, 29 Aug 2011 05:25:26 -0400
[09:34] <knome> :P
[09:34] <knome> night
[09:36] <knome> s/anywho/anyhow/
[09:37] <Unit193> Normally yes, but not quite :P
[09:37] <knome> anywho is not a word :P
[09:37] <Unit193> Yeah, but I actually use it in person too much
[09:37] <knome> :|
[09:39] <Unit193> Good night
[09:40] <knome> nighty
[12:46] <charlie-tca> knome: Just saying "no, it isn't done yet. it is waiting for ???" would be a much nicer update
[13:38] <mr_pouit> charlie-tca: hey, the alacarte/garcon issue isn't reproducible with the default xubuntu session. But if I use a vanilla xfce desktop (not customized by xubuntu, e.g. the "xfce" session), simply opening and closing alacarte triggered the bug here
[13:39] <mr_pouit> and installing the package from -proposed fixed it
[13:39] <mr_pouit> (but since I'm the uploader, I can't really mark as "verification-done" my own upload ;-)
[13:41] <charlie-tca> Okay, I will try that then.
[13:42] <charlie-tca> I will get it verification-done today
[14:05] <charlie-tca> mr_pouit: don't even have to start alacarte in the xfce session if it was run in the Xubuntu session. 
[14:06] <charlie-tca> The xfce session doesn't have any menus
[14:23] <charlie-tca> mr_pouit: verification-done
[14:27] <charlie-tca> Thanks for the help getting the thing done.
[14:33] <mr_pouit> no, thank you for the verification ;-)
[14:33] <charlie-tca> you are very welcome
[16:02] <charlie-tca> madnick: I am getting the plymouth script error at L:205 C:2 also now
[16:08] <madnick> charlie-tca: Yeah, thats probably the 16 bit fix that moved down the error
[16:49] <charlie-tca> We have two solitarie entries now, in Games, Freecell Solitaire and Aisleriot Solitaire
[16:50] <micahg> :(
[16:50] <charlie-tca> Aisleritot lets you play many different games, but Freecell is a single game
[16:51] <charlie-tca> Both from Gnome Games, though
[16:52] <micahg> charlie-tca: can you tell which package has the freecell desktop file?
[16:52] <charlie-tca> looking
[16:54] <charlie-tca> exec=/usr/games/sol --freecell
[16:54] <charlie-tca> comes with aisleriot
[16:54] <micahg> so aisleriot ships 2 .desktop files?
[16:54] <charlie-tca> yup
[16:54] <micahg> that's silly :(
[16:54] <charlie-tca> appears to be true
[16:55] <charlie-tca> my natty to oneiric upgrade just dumped 
[16:55] <charlie-tca> looks like a core dump on my monitor
[16:56] <charlie-tca> keyboard is frozen; maybe it is a kernel panic without the lights
[16:57] <charlie-tca> I guess upgrading after verifying the -proposed package was a bad idea
[16:57] <charlie-tca> will install natty and try again.
[16:59] <micahg> charlie-tca: the othre question is do we care, this seems intentional from upstream
[17:00] <charlie-tca> I don't care. If our menus get cluttered, we can fix it, but realistically, not unless mr_pouit finds it necessary
[17:01] <charlie-tca> I can live with two games, as long as we know about it
[17:01] <charlie-tca> ochosi: what are chances of putting places in the launcher panel, instead of thunar as we have it
[17:02] <charlie-tca> ochosi: what I find is I have too many folders in /home/USER, and the list is about two times longer then my monitor
[17:03] <ochosi> charlie-tca: the only problem i see with places is that afair the mounting/unmounting doesn't work anymore (or not yet, depending on viewpoint)
[17:03] <charlie-tca> I thought that was fixed, but if not, that is a good reason
[17:04] <ochosi> i mean we could replace it with a simple link that will open /home/$USER in thunar
[17:04] <ochosi> unfortunately i'll be really busy till the end of this week, so no chance for me to do serious testing
[17:05] <charlie-tca> It doesn't matter. I haven't seen any complaints about it, so it must be okay the way it is.
[17:05] <ochosi> hmyeah. true. also: it's easy enough to remove/exchange that item in the panel
[17:06] <charlie-tca> yup
[17:06] <charlie-tca> Although that doesn't happen until we do tell them it is simply launchers in a panel
[17:06] <ochosi> but the faq is around the corner, no?
[17:16] <charlie-tca> yes, is that in it?
[17:16] <ochosi> tbh i dunno, i assumed it would be
[17:16] <charlie-tca> We better ask GridCube just to make sure
[17:16] <charlie-tca> reinstalling Natty to see why my upgrade blew itself up
[17:19] <ochosi> k, g2g now, see you
[17:25] <madnick> I am unable to get lightdm's test mode to work
[17:26] <madnick> and I cannot rely on the developer docs, since the examples are wrong, this is really quite frustrating
[17:33] <charlie-tca> agreed
[17:35] <charlie-tca> We fight that battle constantly, it seems
[17:35] <madnick> Im not the one to give up, but, it really seems like a good idea to wait with this until LightDM has a stable foundation
[17:35] <madnick> That isnt changing every week
[17:35] <charlie-tca> Okay, what we have works, right?
[17:35] <madnick> Yes
[17:35] <charlie-tca> Let's not break you trying to get it fixed,t hen
[17:36] <charlie-tca> Let's give it until we start on the next release, and see if it can be done then.
[17:36] <charlie-tca> Thanks for trying so hard to make it work.
[17:38] <madnick> :)
[17:38] <madnick> Not really sure why they are not interested in having correct information in the docs
[17:43] <charlie-tca> Single developer for lightdm, he has done it from scratch, and probably doesn't have time to keep it working for Unity and update docs
[17:44] <madnick> I suppose
[17:48] <charlie-tca> I know the developer, he has tried hard to keep the docs as up-to-date as he could, but it does become overwhelming
[17:48]  * charlie-tca adds (it was not his primary job either)
[17:52] <madnick> Well, he has made something really cool :) 
[17:52] <madnick> But the rush to send it out, has created alot of problems for several distrubtions
[17:52] <madnick> ship it*
[17:53] <charlie-tca> heh, actually, those issues didn't exist until unity got involved
[17:53] <charlie-tca> It worked befor
[17:53] <charlie-tca> I guess I blame Ubuntu for screwing it up for all the rest of us
[18:37] <dtchen> uploaded a new xubuntu-docs (11.04.1) to resolve the FTBFS and resync it with ubuntu-docs's semantics WRT the removal of the firefox-homepage alternative
[18:37] <dtchen> (it's awaiting archive admin approval currently)
[18:37] <charlie-tca> Thanks!
[18:37] <dtchen> I couldn't find a bzr/git/etc. branch to push the changes to, however
[18:39] <dtchen> i.e., please scream loudly and poke me if I overlooked something :-)
[18:42] <micahg> dtchen: please version as 11.10.0
[18:42] <charlie-tca> Is this the branch? bazaar/xubuntu-docs/desktop-guide/index.xml
[18:43] <micahg> dtchen: bzr branch at lp:xubuntu-docs
[18:43] <charlie-tca> I don't really know, it is very convoluted as I recall
[18:43] <micahg> dtchen: and thanks!
[18:44] <dtchen> micahg: ok, I can do that for the next upload.
[18:46] <micahg> actually, lp:xubuntu-docs points to the natty branch, I'll have to get someone to push an oneiric branch for it
[18:47] <dtchen> yeah, that's one reason I chose 11.04.1
[18:47] <dtchen> nevertheless, not a bug deal to bump
[18:47] <dtchen> s/bug/big/
[20:07] <marc_smith> hello all. I hope it is a right channel to ask my question. What is the future of Xubuntu? can I be sure that no Unity or other non-XFCE gadgets would be added to Xubuntu? I'd like to stick to Xubuntu to create solid OS platform for me and for my clients
[20:07] <marc_smith> I wasn't able to find information about Xubuntu future or a roadmap
[20:08] <charlie-tca> Unity is a shell for Gnome, Xfce is not Gnome
[20:09] <charlie-tca> We can not guarantee that Xfce will never add a shell to it's environment, of course, but there is no plan at the present to do that
[20:09] <marc_smith> cool. That's what I wanted to know I guess. Thank you very much
[20:09] <charlie-tca> The plan for Xubuntu is to use Xfce, and add what is needed to make a usable desktop 
[20:10] <charlie-tca> This is our guidelines we try to maintain:
[20:10] <charlie-tca> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/StrategyDocument
[20:10] <marc_smith> I just thought to myself: "Xubuntu is XFCE and Ubuntu, but who knows the future?". That's why I wanted to make sure
[20:11] <charlie-tca> We build on Ubuntu, because it allows to use the repositories and servers
[20:11] <marc_smith> thanks, charlie-tca. I highly appreciate your help
[20:11] <charlie-tca> You are welcome. I hope it puts your mind at ease
[20:11] <marc_smith> yes
[20:12] <marc_smith> PS I really like the way Xubuntu developers make us of the XFCE panel, so it gives some users look and feel of unity. It is easy to change, so others are not force to remove some external software. Very smart
[20:12] <marc_smith> use*
[20:16] <charlie-tca> Got about three more hours on this upgrade test; going buy a pair of shoes while it runs
[22:12] <charlie-tca> still another hour to installing the upgrades...
[22:13] <Unit193> I don't want your connection....
[22:14] <charlie-tca> I don't think it is the connection, it is just a slow computer
[22:16] <charlie-tca> I hate doing upgrades, because they take so long
[22:17] <micahg> charlie-tca: you should set up an apt-cache (apt-cacher-ng)
[22:17] <micahg> oh, yeah, that part is slow too
[22:17] <charlie-tca> I don't know how to set that up
[22:18]  * charlie-tca is "just a user" :)
[22:19]  * Unit193 is also a user
[22:20] <Unit193> Q: Does it matter what time of day I do the tests? What is the cutoff time?
[22:25] <charlie-tca> The time to test is when you can. The cutoff is Thursday morning by 8:00 UTC. The images and tests required are on the ISO tracker at 
[22:25] <charlie-tca> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/
[22:25] <charlie-tca> and the coordination is done using #ubuntu-testing
[22:26] <charlie-tca> I have tried to set up apt-cache, and got lost in the docs. I never could make it work, though
[22:29] <charlie-tca> Unit193: and if I dare say it, I spend about 18 hours a day in #ubuntu-testing for Tues and Wed
[22:29] <charlie-tca> or at least it seems like it
[22:30] <mr_pouit> mmh mmh, I just approved a mail from the modeartion queue
[22:30] <mr_pouit> but he already asked his question here ;]
[22:31] <charlie-tca> oh, that one
[22:31] <mr_pouit> (marc_smith)
[22:31] <charlie-tca> yeah, he seemed happy with my answer too
[22:31] <charlie-tca> Should I answer again then?
[22:32] <mr_pouit> maybe say it has already been handled on irc?
[22:32] <charlie-tca> Sure
[22:32] <mr_pouit> (so other people won't start writing long mails about that :p)
[22:32] <charlie-tca> Works for me
[22:33] <mr_pouit> thanks
[22:33] <charlie-tca> no problem
[22:48] <charlie-tca> upgrade i386 natty to oneiric worked
[22:50] <charlie-tca> will now begin the 64bit natty to oneiric upgrade test
[23:30] <charlie-tca> mr_pouit: one ML would have been enough. Asked here, on xubuntu-devel ML, and on xubuntu-user ML. Anywhere else yet?
[23:31] <charlie-tca> Testers:  New daily-live image just posted. If you are testing oneiric, please sync again
[23:33] <charlie-tca> Going out to eat; will finish the 64bit upgrade tonight
[23:48] <pleia2> knome: did you see Stephanie's email? Can we split the plugin into another LP project?
[23:50] <knome> pleia2, we can, but that seems like hair-splitting
[23:50] <knome> pleia2, can it really be so hard to review them as is?
[23:51] <pleia2> knome: they probably manage plugins and themes separately (there is a pretty good chance they approve a plugin and make it available for everyone)
[23:51] <pleia2> I am just making stuff up, but it's what I'd do, I understand it
[23:51] <knome> pleia2, does that mean the plugin will become copyrighted to canonical?
[23:51] <pleia2> knome: no
[23:51] <knome> pleia2, i thought we only needed a review for the plugin to get it included.
[23:52] <pleia2> well, they need to install it too
[23:52] <knome> of course but... i just don't understand.
[23:52] <knome> i suppose we can do that, but that increases the amount of work WE have to do
[23:53] <pleia2> want me to manage it?
[23:53] <pleia2> I don't mind
[23:53]  * pleia2 sympathizes with her fellow sysadmins
[23:53]  * knome breathes in and out slowly
[23:54] <knome> can we create two separate branches for the project, one for the theme and one for the plugins?
[23:54] <pleia2> she asked for separate projects
[23:54] <pleia2> you can ask though
[23:55] <knome> i wouldn't want an another project for the plugin(s), because right now it is only that plugin, and i have no intention to keep it managed in launchpad
[23:55]  * pleia2 sighs
[23:57]  * knome too
[23:57] <pleia2> I'll think about it and reply tomorrow, I'm on day 8 of straight work and my mind hurts
[23:57] <knome> yeah
[23:57] <knome> can you get back to me before the reply?
[23:57] <pleia2> yeah
[23:58] <knome> i'll think about it too, but it just feels weird to manage our stuff in different places
[23:58] <pleia2> the other wordpress site I worked on with canonical was the news team one, and they managed the lp side themselves
[23:59] <knome> yeah. we've come the half way now, and i think it's their turn now.