[16:55] <pleia2> bkerensa: were you running colbalt linux on your RAQ?
[16:55] <bkerensa> why yes :) unfortunately
[16:55] <bkerensa> I was naive and inexperienced back then :P
[16:55] <pleia2> I'd argue that the worst thing about it was the painfully long time it took for security updates
[16:56] <bkerensa> yeah and the panel :P
[16:56] <pleia2> several months in the case of one 0-day bind vulnerability
[16:56] <bkerensa> No idea why Sun bought Cobalt
[16:56] <pleia2> the boxes were pretty? :)
[16:56] <pleia2> sun made pretty things too
[16:57] <bkerensa> Yeah they were pretty cool and the lcd displays were pretty neat I guess :D
[16:58] <bkerensa> Apparently one hosting company still uses them: http://www.webpros.net/webpros_dedicated_hosting_application.htm
[16:58] <bkerensa> heh
[16:58] <pleia2> wow
[16:59] <bkerensa> I dont know what they are on
[16:59] <pleia2> admittedly, they were pretty solid hardware-wise, I just figured they'd be completely unmaintainable (at least in 2002 only colbalt linux could run on them well)
[16:59] <bkerensa> Yeah but they are not robust by any means
[16:59] <bkerensa> :D
[17:00] <pleia2> now sun sparcs... those things are my favorite hardware ever
[17:00] <pleia2> I was using my ultra10 until I moved last year, it was my firewall running debian
[17:01] <bkerensa> nice
[17:03] <pleia2> SGI is cool too, they made pink servers :)
[17:03] <bkerensa> Pink Servers? I would buy one just to have :)
[17:04] <bkerensa> I'm trying to get my fiancee to becoming a Ubuntu power user but I think she feels odd coming to loco stuff she says all the people there are too smart
[17:04] <bkerensa> :D
[17:04] <pleia2> aww
[17:05] <bkerensa> She is big into finance (a loan officer) but she uses Ubuntu.... No windows in our house :D
[17:05] <pleia2> I find the key to getting people to events where they don't feel smart enough is to make the events fun enough that it doesn't matter
[17:05] <bkerensa> not even via vmbox
[17:06] <pleia2> our release parties are at a local pub, if some people start geeking out too much you can just migrate to a conversation where you feel more comfortable
[17:06] <bkerensa> thats what I'm trying to do with our jam.... So many people e-mailed me or said on irc they didnt think they could contribute
[17:06] <pleia2> and I've never seen a case at a loco event where people where criticised for asking simple questions, geeks eat that stuff up :)
[17:06] <bkerensa> Yeah I would love to do it at a bar but our loco has a small herd of under 21's
[17:07] <pleia2> yeah that's just an example (and it's actually a restaurant, just happens to have a brewpub)
[17:07] <bkerensa> PuppetLabs told me we could use their kegs but Idk about the logistics of all that :D
[17:31] <pleia2> DarkwingDuck: tell us how you really feel about Bluray :)
[17:32] <DarkwingDuck> LOL
[17:32] <pleia2> fwiw, it is still illegal in the US to decrypt DVDs in Linux, I don't think I'd blame FOSS for not changing laws
[17:32] <DarkwingDuck> Sorry, I just started ranting on twitter
[17:32] <pleia2> well, it's legal if you don't use libcss2, if you use something wrapped in a proprietary linux play
[17:32] <pleia2> er
[17:33] <DarkwingDuck> If someone would by a decoding license and release a *free* player that worked on Linux we would be fine... Even if it *is* closed for DRM reasons.
[17:33] <DarkwingDuck> by/buy
[17:33] <pleia2> it would have to be free as in beer, not speech
[17:33] <DarkwingDuck> so?
[17:34] <pleia2> so go buy it and do it :)
[17:34] <DarkwingDuck> This is why Google is so evil eh?
[17:34] <pleia2> you're blaming the open source community for not buying licenses and developing closed source software to satisfy laws?
[17:34] <DarkwingDuck> No...
[17:34] <DarkwingDuck> I'm blaming the OSS Community for being closed to the idea.
[17:34] <pleia2> until the laws change there can never be an open source DVD player in the US which is legal
[17:35] <pleia2> same goes for bluray, and license agreements for content mean DRMed stuff is also in this boat
[17:35] <DarkwingDuck> Yet another classic example of why FOSS will never compete in this country.
[17:35] <pleia2> so we need to change the laws, not blame FOSS
[17:35] <philipballew> would the foss community as a whole like that? or would you say its some higher level people saying how it should be?
[17:36] <DarkwingDuck> I'm saying that it goes back to the proprietary vs open argument.
[17:36] <DarkwingDuck> For media, as much as it sucks, depends on DRM.
[17:37] <pleia2> you can't blame FOSS for that
[17:37] <DarkwingDuck> Rejecting DRM for being proprietary and closed out of the door is what I'm blaming FOSS for doing.
[17:37] <pleia2> who is doing that?
[17:37] <DarkwingDuck> Its like in politics.
[17:37] <philipballew> fsf does pleia2
[17:37] <pleia2> philipballew: haha, well of course *they* do :)
[17:38] <pleia2> they reject everything closed
[17:38]  * DarkwingDuck should bring it up at UDS....

[17:38] <philipballew> http://www.defectivebydesign.org/
[17:38] <pleia2> DarkwingDuck's argument seems to be that there are bluray and DRM-decoding tools out there and FOSS is somehow rejecting them
[17:38] <pleia2> I see no evidence of this
[17:38] <jyo> Hey guys, let's all use Loongson processors!
[17:39] <DarkwingDuck> No, there isn't really bru-ray decoding or netflix decoding for linux.
[17:39] <DarkwingDuck> And the reason there isn't is BECAUSE of the closed DRM.
[17:39] <pleia2> so you're blaming FOSS developers for not breaking laws to reverse engineer this stuff like they did with DVD
[17:40] <pleia2> why not blame netflix and bluray supporters instead for not providing closed source tools like flash and the closed source dvd player?
[17:40] <pleia2> in linux
[17:40] <DarkwingDuck> No... I'm asking for one of the major sponsors to assist.
[17:40] <pleia2> I'd certainly be perfectly happy using closed source stuff if netflix offered it
[17:40] <DarkwingDuck> As would I.
[17:40] <pleia2> (I do already on my chromebook)
[17:40] <philipballew> id even pay for it
[17:40] <DarkwingDuck> As do I on my Android.
[17:41] <pleia2> I see, so it's Google's fault, and they're evil, for not pressuring netflix to release a linux option?
[17:41] <DarkwingDuck> Oh no, they are.
[17:41] <pleia2> I guess I'm just confused as to who these "major sponsors" are
[17:41] <DarkwingDuck> Netflix and Blu-ray (Blogs, I need to find them again)
[17:41] <DarkwingDuck> Are not because of lack of demand.
[17:41] <pleia2> it's because netflix and bluray suck :)
[17:42] <nhaines> DarkwingDuck: err, did we miss where the DVD Consortium only licenses on a per-unit basis?
[17:42] <pleia2> they are meanheads who won't make linux options
[17:42] <pleia2> nhaines: I mentioned that every time we play a DVD in VLC we're breaking the law :)
[17:43] <DarkwingDuck> This is where if we had a major linux sponsor put the same pressure that they do for hardware... We could get somewhere.
[17:43] <nhaines> pleia2: sure.  :)
[17:43] <nhaines> DarkwingDuck: no you couldn't.
[17:43] <DarkwingDuck> Why not?
[17:43] <pleia2> DarkwingDuck: then go do it
[17:43] <nhaines> Because they're not interested.
[17:43]  * philipballew broke the law last night
[17:43] <pleia2> you're telling other people how to spend their money
[17:43] <DarkwingDuck> Google got netflix on Chomebook... After we were told netflix wasn't interested.
[17:44] <nhaines> DarkwingDuck: that's because Google provided the DRM to do it.
[17:44] <DarkwingDuck> My point in all of this is that until we are willing to put the pressure as a whole then we will not be able to compete in any large scale way.
[17:45] <pleia2> DarkwingDuck: "we" is all of us, if you want to put money into closed source development to make this all work, then by all means
[17:45] <nhaines> And I think that's incredibly flawed.
[17:45] <pleia2> people will use it, it'll be great
[17:45] <DarkwingDuck> :)
[17:45] <DarkwingDuck> I'm done ranting. :P:P
[17:46] <pleia2> :)
[17:46] <DarkwingDuck> I got it off my chest... It's been one of those mornings LOL
[17:46] <pleia2> I just hate seeing FOSS blamed for things which really aren't within their scope
[17:46] <pleia2> it's bad enough when linux is blamed because nvidia releases lousy drivers
[17:46] <philipballew> it will happen. soon enough probably
[17:47] <DarkwingDuck> netflix yes... Blu-ray not so much.
[17:47] <DarkwingDuck> Mac doens't even have blu-ray support yet.
[17:47] <pleia2> well, seeing as how DVD hasn't even happened, yeah I tend to agree with that
[17:47] <philipballew> easier for them as they are able to controll hardware more
[17:48] <philipballew> there is no hardware controll with linux
[17:49] <DarkwingDuck> I'm hoping my issues with my phone were related to the ROM I was running...
[17:50] <DarkwingDuck> Sorry for my rant. pleia2 you are right, I am focusing the blame in the wrong direction.
[18:05] <kdub> bluray isnt going anywhere
[18:07] <philipballew> as in the platform itself? kdub
[18:07] <philipballew> disc's are kinda outdated
[18:27] <nhaines> 2 cents for a 50GB disk is a lot cheaper than $30 for a 32GB flash drive.
[18:29] <philipballew> true. but blue rays are like 20 bucks nhaines
[18:32] <nhaines> philipballew: not to make.
[18:34] <philipballew> that is a lot of profit
[18:36] <nhaines> Not really.
[18:37] <philipballew> how so nhaines
[18:38] <philipballew> you would know more then me. im an end user of tech products.
[18:38] <nhaines> Licensing, distribution rights, digital transfer, menu and bonus feature production, captioning, packaging design, marketing, etc....
[18:39] <nhaines> Plus they sell the discs to the actual retailers for far less than the retail price.
[18:40] <philipballew> the last tech item i actually bought was a wd harddrive. 2tb cost me 60 bucks. external drive. probably some profit there
[18:42] <philipballew> the problem with buying cd's is in every pack there's a;ways bad cd's
[18:44] <nhaines> It may have been a USB 2.0 drive.  The 3.0 ones tend to be closer to $139 for a 2TB drive.  (I am an employee of Western Digital and any opinions about pricing or products reflects my personal opinion and not that of Western Digital.)
[18:44] <nhaines> I rarely have bad CDs in the spindles I buy although I do occasionally coaster one.
[18:46] <philipballew> yeah. it was a 2.0 black friday clearance sale. I usually just buy the cheep 100 pack at frys. there not that good
[18:51] <nhaines> philipballew: I picked up a couple 50 packs of Phillips CDs from Microcenter.  I even picked up a pack of Lightscribe discs.  $7.99 for the CD-Rs and I think $9 or $10 for the LightScribe ones.
[18:51] <nhaines> So far so good.  High quality.
[18:56] <jyo> Oh yeah, how many more CDs do we need for Solano Stroll?
[18:57] <philipballew> what is microcenter? nhaines i have herd of it before
[19:08] <nhaines> philipballew: Microcenter is a computer electronics store.  It's like Fry's except smaller, not filthy, and the employees don't hate you.  http://www.microcenter.com/
[19:10] <philipballew> fry's tried to kick me out last week because i tried to carry a backpack with my laptop, wallet and keys inside into the store.
[19:10] <philipballew> I dislike frys lately
[19:30] <sn9> there is one one microcenter in CA afaik
[19:30] <sn9> the rest in TX
[19:32] <pleia2> there are two in CA (same as TX)
[19:32] <pleia2> they're all over the country though
[19:32]  * pleia2 would go to the one in PA, no Frys back east
[19:33] <sn9> in any case, none near philipballew
[19:38] <philipballew> how long has the one by you been there sn9
[19:38] <sn9> it's not near me
[19:38] <sn9> it's in santa clara
[19:39] <sn9> i was spending a lot of time in the silicon valley at one point
[19:41] <philipballew> haha, the frys sn9
[19:42] <philipballew> pleia2 if i actually decided to buy a car I might drive to one
[19:43] <philipballew> you gave me a bag of ubuntu cd's with microcenter on it i beleive
[19:43] <sn9> the fry's on nortgate has been there an i-don't-care length of time, since it was here before i lived where i live atm
[19:44] <philipballew> ahh, I see. that flag shines high whenever i drive by. the one is roseville is nicer I think
[19:44] <sn9> the one in concord people seem to like
[19:44] <pleia2> philipballew: that's entirely likely :) I bought my last monitor at microcenter in santa clara
[19:45] <sn9> i got a bunch of things at microcenter over the years
[19:45] <sn9> i can't really prefer them over fry's
[19:48] <philipballew> yeah, i bought a monitor last week to find it doesnt work with my vga port. need a new graphics card. i guess new monitors are analog ports dont work well
[19:48] <philipballew> frys sells a lot of refurbished stuff. sometimes as new
[19:48] <pleia2> you can get a converter for a couple bucks
[19:50] <philipballew> well the new monitor has a vga port on it, but when i stick into my desktop the screens all blurry, my crt showed fine with vga. im not sure if a converter would help...
[19:50] <pleia2> oh, yuck :(
[19:52] <sn9> fry's clearly labels the non-new stuff. microcenter doesn't
[19:53] <philipballew> i ssh'd and installed the propitery drivers to. still nothing good. i now need to find a way to get a pci-e graphics card.
[19:53] <philipballew> with a d-vga port
[19:54] <sn9> i might have a spare one that i got free after rebate at fry's
[19:54] <philipballew> that would be sweet if you did
[19:54] <sn9> evga geforce 6200
[19:55] <sn9> i was going to use it in something, but i don't remember what atm
[19:55] <sn9> however, i don't really believe it will solve your issue
[19:56] <philipballew> how so wont it?
[19:56] <sn9> if the monitor accepts vga and your current card outputs it, WYSIWYG
[19:57] <sn9> digital won't really change that
[19:57] <philipballew> would a different card output something different though?
[19:59] <sn9> not really
[19:59] <sn9> try it with a different machine before making such an assumption
[20:00] <philipballew> then why does it work before i moved the desktop down to sd?
[20:00] <philipballew> well i tried the monitor with a different machine. it works
[20:00] <sn9> you moved?
[20:00] <philipballew> yeah. back to sd
[20:00] <philipballew> another year of college
[20:00] <sn9> oh. i thought you were still local
[20:01] <philipballew> was untill 2 days ago
[20:01] <kdub> doesnt the trolley make it to fry's?
[20:01] <sn9> where is the other microcenter in this state?
[20:01] <philipballew> all the way out there off the 15 next to costco. its a ways
[20:02] <philipballew> sn9, orange county i think
[20:03] <sn9> what video card do you have in the machine right now?
[20:04] <kdub> philipballew: i have a nvidia 7600, but i suspect is broken
[20:05] <kdub> i'm in the market for a try-it to-see pci card as well
[20:05] <philipballew> its a nvidia intra grated gforce 6100 sn9
[20:07] <philipballew> kdub, i have a couple broken cards as well, its lame when they brake
[20:08] <kdub> like, my mobo doesnt POST /only/ when my graphics card is in, so i'm hoping its just a bad gfx card
[20:08] <kdub> what about newegg, philipballew ?
[20:09] <philipballew> yeah. my  mobo only boots into bios maybe 80 percent of the time on a computer. and i sometimes have to give it time after i shut it down to turn it back on
[20:09] <philipballew> i might do newegg kdub or ebay. the desktop is 5 years old
[20:09] <kdub> mine is too, i need a new one X-|
[20:10] <philipballew> i might just over a time span slowely build one
[20:10] <philipballew> or just save up
[20:11] <philipballew> you can buy some pretty good priced ones. but if im getting a desktop i feel like i might want it to be pretty powerful
[20:12] <kdub> thats how i feel too... esp if it has to be my primary work desktop one of these days
[20:13]  * philipballew still has pata cables in his
[20:14] <nhaines> philipballew: if your monitor doesn't work, replace it.
[20:15] <philipballew> nhaines, i bought the monitor last week. it works fine. the desktop doesnt show well on it
[20:15] <nhaines> philipballew: sounds like it doesn't work.
[20:15] <philipballew> it shows fine on my laptop when i stick that in
[20:16] <nhaines> Alternatively, very high resolutions and refresh rates will never look good over analog.  In that case, a cheap video adapter with DVI fixes the problem.  (For purposes of this discusion, cheap means $15-$35.)
[20:17] <philipballew> yeah. thats what im thinking. i might try ebay. im just not in the mood to put much money into the desktop. i might buy a new one in the next couple years
[20:18] <philipballew> thats why i bought the monitor in some respect
[20:18] <nhaines> If it's PCIe, you can take your video adapter with you.
[20:18] <philipballew> thats true. i didnt think about that
[20:19] <philipballew> i emailed the loco list and a man in irvine says he has one used he can sell for like 15
[20:19] <philipballew> but i might just go new
[20:20] <nhaines> What model?
[20:21] <philipballew> http://xfxforce.com/en-us/products/graphiccards/hd%206000series/6450.aspx
[20:22] <philipballew> thats the one he offered nhaines
[20:22] <philipballew> i have no idea what i would do if i bought new
[20:22] <nhaines> $15 doesn't sound bad.
[20:23] <philipballew> true. i told him he should come to the global jame here and we can look at it there
[20:24] <bkerensa> Get it free :)
[20:24] <bkerensa> If your a blogger usually companies will give you stuff free in exchange for a review
[20:24] <nhaines> This is also illegal.  :P
[20:25] <philipballew> haha nhaines
[20:25] <bkerensa> Which is?
[20:25] <bkerensa> :)
[20:25] <philipballew> nice book review btw bkerensa
[20:25] <nhaines> ha!
[20:25] <nhaines> Accepting gifts in exchange for reviews can be illegal when you don't give the reviewed product back.
[20:26] <bkerensa> nhaines: Yeah thats why you ask up front
[20:26] <sn9> "can be" ?
[20:26] <bkerensa> more than 50% of what I get sent to me they tell me I can keep
[20:26] <philipballew> nhaines, :)
[20:26] <kdub> nhaines: illegal on what basis, seems like that should be ok
[20:26] <nhaines> sn9: I think there are certain kinds of disclosure that clears you but I'd definitely look into it first.
[20:27] <bkerensa> I always request a return shipping label up front and most of the time if its under $600 they let me keep it
[20:27] <philipballew> nhaines, he's doing the company a service
[20:27] <nhaines> I was going to write a U1 review in the next couple weeks but they gave me a storage pack for doing some bug work and now I'm not sure.  :P
[20:27] <bkerensa> nhaines: Yeah the standard for journalism is to request a return label up front but generally if its a "review unit" or "loaner unit" you have to have an agreement on file with the PR firm of the company anyways and they disclose that to you ahead of time
[20:28] <bkerensa> nhaines: Are you on control team?
[20:29] <nhaines> bkerensa: just a happy user since beta.  I'm in the first 750 or so who signed up when it was announced.
[20:29] <bkerensa> nhaines: Cool :)
[20:30] <bkerensa> The only thing I dislike about reviewing items is I get flooded with stuff and its usually pricey so I worry about getting robbed :D
[20:30] <philipballew> what kinda stuff?
[20:30] <bkerensa> Since some stuff has to be returned if my place got broke into due to high fedex/ups traffic then I would have to pay =/
[20:30] <nhaines> The new version of Ubuntu One Files which should hit the Android Market in the next day or two is cool because it has lovely progress bars in the notification area.  :D
[20:31] <bkerensa> philipballew: Tablets, Laptops, Keyboards, Headphones, Earphones, Screen Cleaners etc you name it really
[20:31] <bkerensa> :P
[20:31] <philipballew> you could get a hidden weppons permit bkerensa
[20:31] <nhaines> philipballew: no good if he's not at his place when it's broken into.
[20:31] <bkerensa> I have a alarm system and the property have cameras
[20:31] <bkerensa> nhaines: exactly
[20:31] <bkerensa> :D
[20:31] <nhaines> akgraner: \o_
[20:32] <philipballew> review a security guard bkerensa
[20:32]  * bkerensa is gonna get a heavy duty storage soon and bolt it to my floor in my closet and then set some magnet alarms on it and padlock it
[20:32] <kdub> wait wait wait, reviewers have to return the things that come in the mail? i thought they kept it
[20:32] <bkerensa> philipballew: LOL
[20:32] <bkerensa> kdub: It depends... For not so expensive stuff they usually let you keep it but for expensive high end (not a chance)
[20:32] <bkerensa> :D
[20:33] <kdub> ah, i guess that makes sense...
[20:34] <bkerensa> Its all a very complicated process then also sometimes companies send you embargoed stuff which is basically products you cannot talk about or show to anyone until a certain date
[20:34] <bkerensa> :D
[20:34] <akgraner> nhaines, o/
[20:35] <bkerensa> akgraner: Our global jam info didnt make the weekly newsletter? :(
[20:36] <akgraner> bkerensa, hmmm sorry about that we try to nab all the links we can find but we never find them all
[20:37] <bkerensa> akgraner: heh I e-mailed you last week with the link remember? :)
[20:37] <akgraner> oh crap - yep - we can fix this now
[20:37] <akgraner> brb
[20:37] <bkerensa> lol
[20:37] <bkerensa> its ok :) I forget stuff a lot too... Life gets busy
[20:38] <akgraner> I'll add it where I can now - I am sooo sorry and I had it on my todo list too
[20:38] <akgraner> Dang it
[20:40] <akgraner> Ubuntu Oregon sorry -- seeing you in the CA Channel I didn't put 2 and 2 together...one second I can add it to the wiki now and update the forums post
[20:47] <DarkwingDuck> Hey akgraner
[20:48] <akgraner> bkerensa, added to the issue 230 and I'll fix the forum post in just a sec
[20:48] <akgraner> so sorry about that
[20:48] <akgraner> DarkwingDuck, hey!
[20:48] <DarkwingDuck> akgraner, Hows the knee?
[20:48] <akgraner> I can walk now :-)
[20:48] <DarkwingDuck> Yay!
[20:49] <akgraner> and I have PT 3 times a week to strengthen it
[20:49] <akgraner> so that's fun like that no pain no  gain thing
[20:50] <DarkwingDuck> I remember those days with mine. :/
[20:50] <akgraner> DarkwingDuck, how's life with you these days
[20:51] <DarkwingDuck> Looking for a job.
[20:51] <DarkwingDuck> Working on the Beginners Team structure. Planning Global Jam San Diego
[20:51] <DarkwingDuck> Getting ready for the Kubuntu Doc push.
[20:51] <akgraner> all right up your alley!
[20:51] <DarkwingDuck> Yeah, the job thing is killing me. :/
[20:52] <akgraner> :-(
[20:52] <akgraner> freelance is totally feast or famine for me - :-) but most days I like it
[20:54] <DarkwingDuck> Yeah, I'm doing what I can, but it's not been stable enough for the  family.
[20:57] <akgraner> nods
[20:57] <akgraner> so where are you at now - didn't ou move?
[20:57] <akgraner> s/ou/you
[21:02] <DarkwingDuck> I'm in San Diego. We are helping my mother with bills.
[21:02] <DarkwingDuck> So, we are crashing here.
[21:02] <sn9> i thought that's where you were living since retirement
[21:03] <DarkwingDuck> San Diego yes... Location in San Diego has changed a few times.
[21:03] <sn9> oh.
[21:03] <DarkwingDuck> But, I'm more then willing to relocated for work. :)
[21:18] <nhaines> Oh wow, I just thought I picked up my water cup but when I drank it, it was Dr. Pepper.
[21:22] <akgraner> nhaines, that's a shock
[21:33] <nhaines> akgraner: it tasted like rusty pennies for a second.  :)
[21:37] <akgraner> I'm afraid to ask how you know what rusty pennies taste like :-)
[21:50] <nhaines> akgraner: my imagination is horribly active.  :)
[21:50] <akgraner> hahaha
[21:50] <nhaines> akgraner: see also: http://xkcd.com/883/