[00:32] <RAOF> Man, writing upstart rules is super-easy.
[00:32] <RAOF> Now I just need to figure out the proper dbus-monitor incantation I want.
[00:39] <broder> RAOF: http://dbus.freedesktop.org/doc/dbus-specification.html#message-bus-routing-match-rules :)
[00:52] <jasoncwarner_> RAOF and robert_ancell :0 glad to see both of you ! I have a lightdm-that-might-be-an-x question
[00:55] <jasoncwarner_> RAOF and robert_ancell , so I got my fancy new x220 (intel, of course) and everything is working great now...after some tweaking
[00:56] <jasoncwarner_> but on the unity-greeter screen, my mouse has HUGE amounts of lag on it...I can't really move it around...
[00:56] <jasoncwarner_> not sure how to debug it and get you both some useful information
[00:58] <robert_ancell> jasoncwarner_, anything in the -greeter.log file in /var/log/lightdm?
[00:58]  * jasoncwarner_ looking
[00:58] <robert_ancell> jasoncwarner_, also, once logged in can you run 'dm-tool add-nested-seat' and see if the same problem occurs?
[01:00] <jasoncwarner_> robert_ancell: what should I be looking for in the greeter log?
[01:00] <robert_ancell> anything looping around?
[01:00] <robert_ancell> i.e. hundreds of lines of something?
[01:01] <jasoncwarner_> robert_ancell: no, nothing like that...
[01:01] <jasoncwarner_> dm-tool, should I just run that and then reboot?
[01:02] <robert_ancell> no, it will pop up a nested X window with a login screen
[01:02] <robert_ancell> which is running everything the same as normal, except it uses the Xephyr X server instead of the normal one
[01:03] <jasoncwarner_> do you know package name ot install for xephyr?
[01:03] <robert_ancell> jasoncwarner_, apt-get install xserver-xephyr
[01:03] <jasoncwarner_> thanks, installing...
[01:04] <jasoncwarner_> thanks,,, robert_ancell
[01:04] <jasoncwarner_> it does not happen in the dm-tool
[01:04] <jasoncwarner_> mouse moves fine
[01:07] <jasoncwarner_> robert_ancell: guessing X then...
[01:07] <robert_ancell> that suggests an X problem.  It could be gnome-settings-daemon or something like that though
[01:08] <robert_ancell> the next step is to log out, and then go to a text terminal and run top and see if anything is acting up
[01:08] <robert_ancell> (I'm assuming it always occurs?)
[01:09] <jasoncwarner_> robert_ancell: yeah, it has always happened ... "always" being, 'since I got this computer yesterday...every time on this comp"
[01:09] <jasoncwarner_> I'll log out now and check top...be back in a few
[01:09] <robert_ancell> at least it's consistent
[01:13] <jasoncwarner_> hey robert_ancell I just tried to shutdown/restart from the greeter
[01:13] <jasoncwarner_> #1 - the box wasn't themed with a GTK style...it was base GTK
[01:13] <jasoncwarner_> #2 - nothing worked? couldn't restart and couldn't power down...
[01:13] <robert_ancell> do you have a /etc/lightdm/unity-greeter.conf?
[01:14] <jasoncwarner_> robert_ancell: rebooting again...will check in a sec
[01:15] <jasoncwarner_> robert_ancell: I hate writing this, and I don't know how you'll feel reading it (RAOF either)
[01:15] <jasoncwarner_> but when I went to a tty and then back to unity-greeter
[01:16] <jasoncwarner_> the mouse just started working fine
[01:16] <jasoncwarner_> and then when I rebooted...it seemed to work fine
[01:16] <jasoncwarner_> that is my def of "magic" :)
[01:16] <robert_ancell> oh yay
[01:16] <robert_ancell> um, so problem solved right?
[01:16] <robert_ancell> :)
[01:17] <jasoncwarner_> :) that would be an awesome note in the release notes: if laggy mouse, do this ;)
[01:17] <jasoncwarner_> btw
[01:17] <jasoncwarner_> i do have a unity-greeter.conf file
[01:18] <robert_ancell> jasoncwarner_, does it sound like bug #828112?
[01:18] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 828112 in unity-greeter "Password field feedback slow at times" [Medium,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/828112
[01:21] <jasoncwarner_> robert_ancell: I think it resembles, that but not exactly.
[01:21] <jasoncwarner_> though, when I am having the problem, yes, the password field does have lag as well
[01:22] <robert_ancell> could you put your notes on that bug and note the mouse was also a sympton
[01:24] <jasoncwarner_> robert_ancell: will do
[01:29] <jasoncwarner_> robert_ancell: lag is back after reboot
[01:29] <jasoncwarner_> and, yes, it was solved simply by this
[01:29] <jasoncwarner_> CTRL+ALT F2
[01:29] <jasoncwarner_> CTRL+ALT F7
[01:29] <jasoncwarner_> no lag after that
[01:29] <jasoncwarner_> rebooting again...
[01:31] <jasoncwarner_> robert_ancell: could it be gnome-settings-daemon related?
[01:32] <jasoncwarner_> I am getting pretty consistent crashes with g-s-s
[01:32] <jasoncwarner_> and that might be why I don't have a GTK theme on the shutdown dialog?
[01:32] <robert_ancell> I'm just speculating, but both the indicators and g-s-d could run all sorts of things that unity-greeter has no control over
[01:33] <TheMuso> The sound indicator runs pulse for one...
[01:35] <jasoncwarner_> I imagine if g-s-s fails to load I would have quite a few problems...and g-s-s crashes each and every boot for me.
[01:35] <jasoncwarner_> so perhaps...
[01:35] <jasoncwarner_> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-settings-daemon/+bug/838502
[01:35] <ubot2`> jasoncwarner_: Error: <Bugtracker.plugin.Launchpad instance at 0x8d65a2c> bug 838502 not found
[02:20] <jasoncwarner_> robert_ancell: after rebooting quite a few times,I think that bug you linked before and mine are probably the same
[02:21] <jasoncwarner_> the op prob just didn't move his mouse to see it not moving
[02:21] <robert_ancell> jasoncwarner_, oh good.  Is it coming back again?
[02:21] <jasoncwarner_> yeah
[02:21] <robert_ancell> yeah, that was my guess too
[02:23] <jasoncwarner_> robert_ancell: did you see my above? I can get it to go away with switching to TTY and back again
[02:23] <jasoncwarner_> and when I lock my screen and go to switch user (which brings me back to unity-greeter)
[02:23] <jasoncwarner_> I get it as well
[02:23] <robert_ancell> RAOF, ^ does that sound remotely X related?
[02:24] <robert_ancell> My first guess is video drivers with VT switching, or some sort of power management issue (i.e. idle checking)
[02:25] <jasoncwarner_> robert_ancell: I'm on intel on this machine...
[02:35] <RAOF> robert_ancell: That could be X related; VT switching drops drm master, and switching back regains it, which might mean that if it failed the first time then VT switching could re-enable acceleration?
[02:36] <robert_ancell> RAOF, anythink we could check to confirm that?
[02:36] <RAOF> robert_ancell: /var/log/Xorg.0.log would contain information to confirm or deny that hypothesis.
[02:36] <robert_ancell> jasoncwarner_, ^^
[02:37] <jasoncwarner_> RAOF: what should I be looking for int aht log?
[02:38] <RAOF> jasoncwarner_: Well, pastebinning it would be good.  The drmOpenDevice lines would be part of the bit.
[02:40] <jasoncwarner_> RAOF: http://pastebin.com/HwtT0JZn
[02:41] <RAOF> Well, that doesn't contain what I'd expect.
[02:42] <RAOF> Oh!  Compiz is being really slow?  Can you check your top output?  I've had a problem where something's spamming the dbus, and dbus-daemon has high CPU usage, and because the panel is in the compositor that means that _everything's_ slow.
[02:42] <RAOF> (I think in my case it was because indicator-datetime was endlessly trying to enumerate all my calendars)
[02:43] <RAOF> VT switching could possibly halt compiz for long enough to unwedge things.
[02:44] <jasoncwarner_> RAOF: my top didn't show compiz being slow...I'll reboot and look again...but remember, switching to a VT seems to clear it all up...I'm not sure I'll be able to see it...
[02:44] <jasoncwarner_> oh...I'll log in remotely to see if it is there
[02:48] <jasoncwarner_> RAOF: ok...I'm actually goign to finish these three emails from my TODO first...been all day and I haven't gotten 'em done...be back in a bit
[02:49] <RAOF> jasoncwarner_: No problem :)
[02:49] <RAOF> robert_ancell: Have you played around with dbus-monitor?  I can't seem to get it to display anything but signals, and I want to trace method calls instead.
[02:50] <robert_ancell> RAOF, no, sorry
[02:51] <stgraber> RAOF: system or session bus? and do you need the content of the call of just interface, path and function name?
[02:51] <broder> RAOF: you can't use dbus-monitor to get method calls by default
[02:51] <RAOF> stgraber: System bus, and I really just want to know _when_ it gets called.
[02:52] <RAOF> broder: Ah, well now my results make sense :)
[02:52] <stgraber> RAOF: sorry can't help much with system bus unless you can tell your client that it's at another location than /run/dbus/system_bus_socket
[02:52] <stgraber> (I wrote a dbus proxy as part of my work on arkose which logs everything that goes through it)
[02:53] <broder> RAOF: if you put http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/679351/ at /etc/dbus-1/system-local.conf and then do pkill -HUP dbus-daemon, you'll be able to see them
[02:53] <RAOF> broder: Can I mess with the system bus config to make that work?
[02:53] <broder> but that completely compromises the integrity of anybody that's depending on dbus for security :)
[02:53] <broder> e.g. NM
[02:54] <RAOF> Well, it's just for local debugging, so that's fine.
[02:54] <robert_ancell> RAOF, does it make sense to disable TCP connections in lightdm by default for security reasons (Bug #838152)
[02:54] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 838152 in lightdm "hard-coded "-nolisten tcp"" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/838152
[02:55] <RAOF> robert_ancell: Not listening on TCP is certainly the correct default.
[02:55] <robert_ancell> RAOF, ta
[02:56] <RAOF> It's something that you might want to offer as an option, though.
[03:13] <broder> RAOF: fwiw, i think there are less heavyhanded ways of enabling limited eavesdropping, but i've never been able to get them to work
[03:14] <RAOF> broder: Nyargh!  Is there a *more* heavyhanded way of enabling eavesdropping?  I've dumped that in, and can see _other_ method calls, but not the ones that I'm interested in!
[03:15] <broder> hmm..that's not a problem i've had before
[03:15] <broder> are you sure the calls are actually getting made?
[03:15] <RAOF> Ah, there we go.
[03:15] <RAOF> Apparently you need to restart d-feet before that'll work.
[03:16] <RAOF> Oh, yeah!  The dbus reload probably needs that, doesn't it.
[03:16] <broder> huh, weird
[03:18] <RAOF> I wasn't expecting getting dbus-monitor to work to be the most difficult part of this :)
[03:20] <RAOF> Writing upstart rules is plesantly easy.
[03:21] <randrums> https://plus.google.com/115895054477394715961/posts/84KCPX2xgUh
[03:22] <DBO> ping RAOF
[03:23] <DBO> so good news bad news time
[03:23] <DBO> good news: the signal for figuring out when a resume happens works
[03:23] <DBO> bad news: recreating the FBO's doesn't fix the corruption issue
[03:44] <RAOF> DBO: Hm.  That's non-good.
[03:44] <DBO> so looking at it more carefully
[03:44] <DBO> what I observe is this
[03:44] <RAOF> DBO: I thought you'd previously tested and found that to work?
[03:45] <DBO> it did in nux
[03:45] <DBO> I was assuming that would transfer over...
[03:45] <DBO> (we had the inverse problem last cycle, nux was corrupted and compiz wasn't)
[03:45] <DBO> so my observations seem to be as follows:
[03:46] <DBO> 1) the FBO, without being reloaded, actually pants fine (contents are uncorrupted when painted into)
[03:46] <DBO> 2) painting the texture the fbo is bound to onto another fbo works fine
[03:46] <DBO> 3) painting the compiz FBO onto the backbuffer somehow fails terribly
[03:47] <DBO> which really makes me wonder, why do the nux fbo's paint just fine
[03:47] <RAOF> Because magic.
[03:47] <RAOF> Presumably :)
[03:48] <DBO> I have a screenshot
[03:50] <DBO> RAOF, http://i.imgur.com/TFOXc.png
[03:50] <DBO> see how the corruption is a predictable pattern
[03:50] <DBO> I suspect somehow the driver is blending the FBO onto the backbuffer with an incorrect format
[03:50] <RAOF> That looks like it's likely to be tiling-related.
[03:51] <DBO> tiling?
[03:51] <RAOF> Given that it occurs on what looks like tiling-sized blocks.
[03:52] <RAOF> Textures aren't linear in memory, at least not if you want it to be fast.
[03:52] <DBO> oh
[03:52] <DBO> is that done automatically by the driver?
[03:52] <RAOF> They're tiled into crazy patterns so that the multi-bar memory controllers are used maximally.
[03:52] <RAOF> Yeah, that's done by the driver.
[03:53] <DBO> maybe an error in the fixed function pipe
[03:53] <DBO> (sam, he's silly like that)
[03:54] <DBO> obviously unity blends fine
[03:54] <RAOF> But it's a fertile source of bugs in the kernel/DDX/mesa layers, at least for the free drivers.
[03:54] <DBO> and functionally, it too is painting FBO's
[03:55] <RAOF> Yeah, if Unity's doing shadery things and compiz is using fixed-function that could be different, I guess.
[03:56] <DBO> well I mean painting the contents of an FBO shouldn't be functionally different than painting a texture
[03:56] <DBO> which still works fine
[03:56] <RAOF> DBO: Will you still be around in ~20 minutes?  I'd like to relocate back from this cafe to home.
[03:57] <DBO> yes
[03:57] <RAOF> Ta.
[03:57] <RAOF> Catch you in 20.
[04:23] <RAOF> DBO: Back.
[04:23] <DBO> welcome back RAOF
[04:26] <DBO> RAOF, if you got any ideas that would be great...
[04:26] <DBO> RAOF, is the backbuffer tiled?
[04:26] <RAOF> *Everything* is likely to be tiled; back buffer, front buffer, textures, the whole enchilada.
[04:26] <RAOF> Because it's like a 300% performance win.
[04:27] <DBO> hmmm
[04:27] <RAOF> (Well, not exactly, but it's a huge performance win)
[04:27] <DBO> I hope we dont have to recreate the GL context to get around this
[04:27] <RAOF> In fact, from what I gather from nouveau the nv5x+ cards don't actually handle *untiled* surfaces.
[04:27] <DBO> that would kind of suck
[04:28] <RAOF> That would rather suck, yes.
[04:28] <RAOF> Can you recreate the backbuffer or something?  Like, swap out the composite overlay window?
[04:34] <DBO> I dont think so
[04:34] <DBO> maybe?
[04:35] <RAOF> That might be something to try, if some tiling bit isn't getting reset properly across suspend.
[04:36] <DBO> wow
[04:37] <DBO> I just realized that the opengl plugin in compiz creates a shader in the most crazy ass fashion
[04:37] <DBO> im betting if we change how we paint this thing
[04:37] <DBO> that will fix it
[04:38] <RAOF> Hah!
[04:38] <RAOF> Always it is with the craaaazy compiz!
[04:47] <jbicha> robert_ancell: good work on unity-greeter today, fixed 2 of my bugs!
[04:49] <jbicha> my indicators are in a crash-loop, it's "fun" to see the appmenu appearing and reappearing
[04:57] <jbicha> are there any logs I can look at it to see what's breaking with my indicators?
[05:23] <robert_ancell> jbicha, :)
[05:23] <pitti> Good morning
[05:25] <jbicha> pitti: good morning
[05:25] <kenvandine> good morning pitti
[05:26] <pitti> hey guys, how are you?
[05:30] <TheMuso> Morning pitti.
[05:30] <RAOF> Hey pitti
[05:31] <pitti> so, interesting release night..
[05:34] <kenvandine> pitti, how is the release looking?
[05:34] <pitti> was respun during the night due to a pretty serious bug with GPT partitions
[05:46] <didrocks> good morning
[05:47] <pitti> bonjour didrocks
[05:48] <RAOF> Oh, no!  It's didrocks!  Quick, hide! :)
[05:52] <didrocks> guten morgen pitti
[05:52] <didrocks> RAOF: not fast enough! :-)
[05:57] <didrocks> the more I see bug report, the more I will be in favor to revert Ctrl + Del to simply Del. The trash is there for fat fingers…
[05:57] <jasoncwarner_> didrocks: I agree with that..
[05:58] <pitti> and now crtl+del is harder to do than shift-del, which immediately removes it..
[05:59] <pitti> this was one of these rather pointless changes which destroy the habits learned in years *sigh*
[05:59] <jasoncwarner_> pitti didrocks change it to just DEL? makes most sense to me.
[06:00] <didrocks> can do it if you both agree :)
[06:00] <didrocks> and +1 with pitti's remark, it's harder that shift + del, which is some kind of hilarious :)
[06:00] <didrocks> than*
[06:00] <pitti> didrocks: we'd need to update the GNOME documentation for that, too, though
[06:01] <didrocks> pitti: indeed, so, opening/find a bug and subscribe the doc team to it? (I think there is no patch to the doc for all the indicator/systray removal anyway)
[06:01] <pitti> not sure whether it's in gnome-user-guide or nautilus help or both
[06:02] <didrocks> I can have a look, will do that after the cjk landing
[06:03] <didrocks> pitti: so, a bunch of package will land with real cjk support (there was a first attempt one ok ago while I was on vacation if i understood correctly), but this time, the correct patches will land
[06:03] <pitti> just saw the confirmation in the bug, nice to hear!
[06:03] <didrocks> this touches apt-xapian-index, zg-extension, sotware-center and unity
[06:04] <didrocks> jasoncwarner_: FYI ^
[06:04] <didrocks> pitti: ok, will land today if all go well :)
[06:04] <jasoncwarner_> didrocks: saw that....big change...lots of testing needed
[06:04] <didrocks> jasoncwarner_: indeed
[06:05] <didrocks> jasoncwarner_: what was missing from the first round was the rebuild of the index once cjk is there
[06:05] <jasoncwarner_> didrocks: ah...cool...thanks
[06:05] <jasoncwarner_> once this gets in then, back to oneconf? ;)
[06:08] <didrocks> jasoncwarner_: I finished the first round of oneconf in parrallel, it's now working with software-center gtk3 :)
[06:09] <didrocks> still missing some speedup improvment (caching and stuff) that I made for the gtk2 version, but it's usable (the whole software-center gtk3 needs some speedups anyways)
[06:58] <jbicha> didrocks: I'll take care of making sure the Ubuntu docs say just Delete
[06:58] <didrocks> jbicha: I'm writing a script for that, will be way easier :)
[06:58] <jbicha> it's not in that many places, is it?
[06:59] <didrocks> jbicha: it's in gnome-user-guide FYI, I just run a script to do the sed and such
[06:59] <didrocks> jbicha: yeah, but there are the translations ;)
[06:59] <jbicha> didrocks: the real docs are in ubuntu-docs, gnome-user-docs is currently just a copy from Debian, it's unclear whether we want to maintain a diff there
[07:00] <didrocks> jbicha: if I press F1 on nautilus, it's gnome-user-docs which is used, isn't it?
[07:01] <jbicha> didrocks: yes that will need to be patched too, thanks :-)
[07:01] <didrocks> jbicha: I'm patching this one (and so, add the tool for regenerating the patch for easier use), can you take care of ubuntu-docs, please?
[07:02] <jbicha> didrocks: actually can you correct the nautilus help link to point to ghelp:ubuntu-docs instead of gnome-user-docs?
[07:02] <jbicha> gnome-user-docs isn't installed by default
[07:03] <jbicha> I thought Nautilus shipped its own help but it just piggybacks on the system help since it's Core
[07:06] <didrocks> jbicha: you're right, it's not installed by default
[07:06] <didrocks> weird, it's in main, maybe for the dvd?
[07:06] <jbicha> didrocks: upgraders will still have it & it's pulled in for users who install gnome shell
[07:07] <jbicha> for Natty, we heavily modified gnome-user-docs instead of just using ubuntu-docs so it was installed in Natty
[07:09] <RAOF> pitti: You're our resident PolicyKit maestro, right?  In bug #837851 it seems that policykit hates colord running as not root; is there a way to tell PolicyKit that it's ok for the colord user to check whether $USER has authorisation on its interfaces?
[07:09] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 837851 in colord ""Color" tool in GNOME System Settings only recognizes my webcam as color-manageable device" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/837851
[07:09] <didrocks> jbicha: ah, makes sense then, now everything is in ubuntu-docs? I should not touch gnome-user-docs then
[07:09] <jbicha> didrocks: yes, it's just easier to keep gnome-user-docs in sync with Debian for now
[07:10] <didrocks> jbicha: ok, I remove my script then :)
[07:10] <didrocks> jbicha: adding an ubuntu-docs task and assign to you, ok?
[07:11] <jbicha> didrocks: that's fine, we were thinking about pushing a new ubuntu-docs update this weekend
[07:11] <RAOF> pitti: Specifically, colord asks polkit, as the colord user, whether $USER is authorised to perform the actions, and polkit only allows root to query whether someone else is authorised to perform an action (presumably for security purposes).
[07:11] <didrocks> jbicha: but that means that we will have to patch every application to reference ubuntu-docs rather than gnome-user-docs?
[07:13] <jbicha> didrocks: there aren't that many apps that use g-u-d, but gnome-control-center probably does
[07:13] <didrocks> jbicha: ok, let's try to change it for nautilus first
[07:14] <chrisccoulson> good morning everyone
[07:15] <pitti> hey chrisccoulson
[07:15] <chrisccoulson> hi pitti, how are you?
[07:15] <didrocks> jbicha: so, basically, now it's ghelp:gnome-help#… should it be ghelp:ubuntu-help#… ?
[07:15] <didrocks> good morning chrisccoulson
[07:15] <chrisccoulson> hi didrocks
[07:15] <pitti> chrisccoulson: pretty well, thanks!
[07:15] <pitti> RAOF: (will get to you, still stuck in release juggling and CD testing in parallel)
[07:15] <RAOF> pitti: No problem!
[07:18] <chrisccoulson> hmmmm, i just did apport-bug compiz, and apport seems to have frozen :/
[07:18] <jbicha> didrocks: yes, when we push the new ubuntu-docs we'll have to change it again though because the new url will be help:
[07:18] <jbicha> instead of ghelp:
[07:19] <didrocks> jbicha: ok, let's do that change once you pushed the new ubuntu-docs package, ok?
[07:19] <didrocks> jbicha: I'll just push the Ctrl + Del -> Del
[07:20] <jbicha> didrocks: yes the other isn't ready yet
[07:33] <pitti> RAOF: so, polkit
[07:33] <pitti> RAOF: right, I'm afraid the 'ownuser || uid==0" check is hardcoded, so that you can't spy on other uers
[07:33] <pitti> users
[07:34] <RAOF> That seems like a misfeature.
[07:34] <pitti> so for this we'd need a provision to mark a particular system user as being able to do the same
[07:34] <RAOF> Right, that was what I was thinking.
[07:34] <pitti> or a particular program
[07:34] <pitti> like, this privilege could become a polkit privilege
[07:35] <pitti> (recursivity FTW)
[07:35] <RAOF> org.freedesktop.polkit.check_authorisation :)
[07:35] <RAOF> Hm, no.  That wouldn't work; it needs to be a per-action thing.
[07:36] <RAOF> You want the colord user to be able to check whether $USER is authorised for org.freedesktop.colord.*, but not anything else.
[07:36] <RAOF> So, an extension to the action semantics could do this.
[07:36] <pitti> RAOF: what does colord do if it cannot check this?
[07:36] <RAOF> Refuses to add the device, so the cups and g-s-d integration fail.
[07:37] <pitti> asked the other way round, what are the default permissions on org.freedesktop.colord.* ?
[07:37] <RAOF> at_console
[07:37] <pitti> I'm not entirely sure why it asks a particular user's permissions to add devices to cups, as cupsd is a system service
[07:37] <pitti> RAOF: eww
[07:37] <RAOF> Yeah, I'm not sure if cups is actually going to work *at all*
[07:38] <pitti> colord uses polkit _and_ at_console?
[07:38] <pitti> at_console is an ancient hack for programs which don't use polkit
[07:38] <RAOF> Sorry, I couldn't remember the polkit name for at_console.  It's default-deny, allow for active user.
[07:38] <pitti> ah, ok
[07:38] <RAOF> Ah, allow_active.
[07:40] <RAOF> Will allow_active allow cupsd access?
[07:40] <pitti> no
[07:40] <pitti> cupsd is not on any console
[07:40] <Sweetshark> Morning all!
[07:40] <pitti> the consolekit stuff only works for actual sessions, not for system daemons
[07:40] <pitti> hey Sweetshark
[07:40] <Sweetshark> pitti: libreoffice_3.4.2-2ubuntu3 for upload on chinstrap
[07:41] <pitti> RAOF: another option would be to actually stop using polkit, and control this with d-bus policy
[07:41] <RAOF> pitti: Yeah, thought so.  So, cupsd isn't going to work even once I fix the session stuff.
[07:41] <pitti> RAOF: i. e. allow calling the API from root (that'll cover cupsd) and at_console
[07:42] <pitti> cf. my comment about at_console being deprecated, though
[07:42] <pitti> RAOF: yet another alternative is to let colord run as root, and lock it down with an apparmor profile
[07:42] <RAOF> pitti: That would be reasonably easy, and a transitional plan while fixing polkit.
[07:43] <pitti> RAOF: depends on how much patching is involved to remove all the polkit checks from colord
[07:43] <RAOF> Although running as root _still_ won't fix cupsd, right?
[07:43] <RAOF> pitti: colord has a --no-polkit option.
[07:43] <pitti> RAOF: but I guess it could be factored out, and the functino would only ask polkit if geteuid() == 0
[07:43] <pitti> and otherwise just allow it
[07:43] <pitti> then we put a d-bus policy in front of it
[07:44] <pitti> that patch should even be upstreamable
[07:44] <pitti> RAOF: ah, that sounds promising, too
[07:44] <RAOF> It wouldn't need to be a patch at all; we can just build colord without policykit support.
[07:45] <pitti> you'd need to patch the d-bus policy, but that's relatively simple
[07:45] <RAOF> Yeah, I'm pretty sure I know how to do that.
[07:45] <pitti> some of the interfaces might be save for everyone to call
[07:46] <pitti> and the ones that aren't should be removed from context="default" and added to <policy at_console="true">
[07:46] <pitti> and again to <policy user="root">
[07:46] <pitti> to cover g-s-d (first) and cupsd (second)
[07:47] <pitti> RAOF: /etc/dbus-1/system.d/NetworkManager.conf does that, for example
[07:47] <RAOF> Great.
[07:48] <RAOF> And then, a patch to polkit to allow doing this there.
[07:52] <pitti> and a patch to its policy to allow access to root users, not just allow_active
[07:52] <pitti> RAOF: ^ that's easy to do, I can help you with that once it becomes relevant
[07:52] <pitti> (man pklocalauthority)
[07:52] <pitti> something like
[07:53] <pitti> [allow access to cups]
[07:53] <pitti> Identity=unix-user:root
[07:53] <pitti> Action=org.fd.colord.whatever
[07:53] <pitti> ResultAny=yes
[07:54] <didrocks> pitti: when you get a second: bug #838623. Do you need a bug/FFe for activating the CJK support? (it was supposed to already be activated, it wasn't the case though)
[07:54] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 838623 in software-center "FFe, UIFe: bring back OneConf to Software-Center" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/838623
[07:54] <pitti> didrocks: no, bug fix
[07:55] <didrocks> ok, thanks :)
[07:55] <pitti> everything is supposed to work in CJK :)
[07:56] <RAOF> Oh, there isn't an <allow_root>yes</allow_root> specifier in the actions.  That's kinda strange.
[07:56] <didrocks> pitti: indeed :)
[07:56] <RAOF> Let's play with dbus policy!
[07:57] <pitti> RAOF: not in the .policy files, no; that needs to go into pklocalauthority
[07:59] <RAOF> The strange corners you find in polkit!
[08:00] <kamstrup> didrocks: don't sweat over dee - we don't need it really, all required things are distropatched by ken, it's just so that other distros can ship gwibber without cherry picking extra api from trunk :-)
[08:01] <didrocks> kamstrup: I know, was just kidding :-)
[08:01] <kamstrup> didrocks: phew, i wouldn't wanna upset you already after my second day back ;-)
[08:02] <didrocks> kamstrup: it's never too late to upset me, seems that's dx paradigm ;-)
[08:10] <rodrigo_> morning
[08:23] <rodrigo_> kamstrup, did you get someone to upload jhbuild?
[08:24] <kamstrup> rodrigo_: I poked lool (as he was the original maintainer afaik), but he was not overly keen on jumping in :-)
[08:24] <rodrigo_> kamstrup, ok, I can do a merge proposal then
[08:25] <rodrigo_> what's the jhbuild version you need?
[08:25] <rodrigo_> hmm, there's only 2.32.4 from last December in download.gnome.org
[08:26] <kamstrup> rodrigo_: that's also the one :-)
[08:26] <rodrigo_> that's the one you need?
[08:50] <chrisccoulson> jasoncwarner_, enjoying your new laptop? ;)
[08:51] <jasoncwarner_> chrisccoulson: yes, yes I am
[08:52] <chrisccoulson> excellent :)
[08:52] <jasoncwarner_> and, chrisccoulson , glad you are here! :) I had a question for you. I just installed aurora build of FF
[08:52] <jasoncwarner_> and the menu and ubuntu theme went away
[08:52] <jasoncwarner_> anyway to get those back?
[08:52] <chrisccoulson> i really want to buy a new laptop, but i fear that jo might end my life if i spend money on one, when we're meant to be saving for our own house ;)
[08:52] <chrisccoulson> hmmm, the menu disappeared entirely, or appears in it's own window?
[08:53] <jasoncwarner_> chrisccoulson: it is just not in the global menu position. I would like to renable that because it takes up precious screen realestate on the smaller monitor! :)
[08:53] <jasoncwarner_> chrisccoulson: just tell her for hte good of your relationship you need a new laptop
[08:53] <chrisccoulson> jasoncwarner_, you could try reporting a bug with apport-bug, as the new apport hook i wrote attaches lots of useful information which might save me asking lots of quetions :)
[08:53] <jasoncwarner_> and then watch how quickly a good relationship can go bad ;)
[08:53] <chrisccoulson> heh
[08:54] <jasoncwarner_> chrisccoulson: I think the menu is the new firefox "we don't enable third party libraries anymore" stuff
[08:54] <jasoncwarner_> it says it will be renabled when it is "compatible"
[08:54] <chrisccoulson> jasoncwarner_, this is a build from the firefox-aurora PPA isn't it?
[08:54] <jasoncwarner_> whatever that means
[08:54] <jasoncwarner_> yes
[08:54] <chrisccoulson> jasoncwarner_, yeah, apport-bug firefox might help me figure out what's wrong :)
[08:55] <jasoncwarner_> ok..
[08:55] <chrisccoulson> it should let you report a bug from the PPA
[08:55] <chrisccoulson> and it will be useful to find out if the new hook works from there :)
[08:55] <jasoncwarner_> what about the ubuntu theme? can that be reenabled as well?
[08:55] <jasoncwarner_> stock firefox isn't exactly pretty :/
[08:56] <chrisccoulson> jasoncwarner_, we only shipped with the stock firefox theme before (it just inherits colours from our theme)
[08:56] <jasoncwarner_> this "every new release of firefox breaks all the plugins" thing is getting old...
[08:56] <jasoncwarner_> I highly doubt all those plugins are broken
[08:57] <jasoncwarner_> would like to be able to override and try it out anyway
[09:00] <chrisccoulson> jasoncwarner_, did you manage to report a bug?
[09:00] <jasoncwarner_> on a call...do it in a bit...I'll let you know...
[09:00] <chrisccoulson> thanks
[09:01] <jbicha> jasoncwarner_: don't you use https://addons.mozilla.org/addon/add-on-compatibility-reporter/ ?
[09:11] <chrisccoulson> jbicha, that won't ever work for the globalmenu-extension
[09:11] <chrisccoulson> if it's incompatible, forcing it on will likely just make it crash
[09:13] <jasoncwarner_> chrisccoulson: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/firefox/+bug/838671
[09:13] <ubot2`> Ubuntu bug 838671 in firefox "Auroa PPA does not work with global menu" [Undecided,New]
[09:14] <chrisccoulson> jasoncwarner_, ah, silly me. i need to refresh the aurora branch with the latest version of the extension ;)
[09:14] <pitti> Sweetshark: oh, you apparently built with -sa; I'll edit the sources.changes in-place to drop the tarballs
[09:14] <chrisccoulson> i should have checked that already
[09:14] <chrisccoulson> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/78687096/Extensions.txt
[09:14] <zen_monkey> nights, how can i report an issue with gnome-settings-daemon from the gnome3-team?
[09:15] <pitti> Sweetshark: oh, or was this done for libreoffice_3.4.2.orig-ext-human-updates.tar.gz? i. e. is that one new?
[09:15] <zen_monkey> it's seriously hogging cpu... lappy will melt :D
[09:15] <pitti> Sweetshark: I'll try whether uploading only this will work
[09:16] <pitti> Sweetshark: uploaded
[09:16] <chrisccoulson> jasoncwarner_, i'll push the latest version and respin the build
[09:18] <chrisccoulson> jasoncwarner_, oh, were you actually using a custom theme before btw?
[09:18] <chrisccoulson> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/78687110/Themes.txt shows that the default is enabled, but you have an incompatible theme installed in your profile
[09:18] <jasoncwarner_> yeah...I was...
[09:18] <Sweetshark> pitti: Yes, I had too build with -sa: there is one new tarball *-ext-human-updates (I hope you didnt drop that one ...)
[09:19] <pitti> Sweetshark: no, that's the one I kept :)
[09:19] <Sweetshark> *relieved*
[09:21] <chrisccoulson> jasoncwarner_, the theme seems to work on a current nightly with addon compatibility checking disabled
[09:21] <chrisccoulson> jasoncwarner_, https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/add-on-compatibility-reporter/
[10:11] <chrisccoulson> jasoncwarner_, i'm respinning the aurora builds now, so you should get an update in a few hours
[10:11] <chrisccoulson> wow, i've reported 3 bugs this morning. i think that's the most i've reported in ages ;)
[10:21] <didrocks> pitti: small pygi question, how do you handle out parameter for basic types, like GtkMenuPositionFunc (x and y) ?
[10:22] <pitti> didrocks: normally, when you just simply call them, they are part of the return tuple
[10:22] <pitti> but in this case these are out values of a callback
[10:23] <pitti> didrocks: in theory, the callback should just return them, but I don't know whether anyone did that before
[10:23] <didrocks> pitti: ok, let's have a try then ;)
[10:31] <didrocks> pitti: interestingly, it seems to work for y, but not for x… I try adding random parameters, it doesn't complain…
[10:31] <ronoc> pitti, hey ! do you know a way to query if the guest session is disabled on a system ? I could not see anything obvious on d-feet
[10:31] <pitti> didrocks: with somethign as complex and unusual as correctly marshalling out arguments for callbacks I'd not be surprised if it's buggy..
[10:32] <pitti> ronoc: hm, that's a question for robert_ancell
[10:32] <pitti> ronoc: I'm not familiar with how lightdm handles that, I'm afraid
[10:32] <ronoc> pitti, sure no probs
[10:33] <didrocks> pitti: yeah, confirm, only y is working, where should I open a bug, can get a minimal reproduceable testcase
[10:33] <pitti> didrocks: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/enter_bug.cgi?product=pygobject
[10:34] <didrocks> pitti: thanks!
[10:34] <pitti> didrocks: does that block you?
[10:34] <pitti> didrocks: I used popup_for_menu() in computer-janitor, but with a None callback, so I didn't notice that
[10:34] <didrocks> pitti: not, it's just a little bit uglier (the popup menu will appear where the cursor is)
[10:34] <pitti> yeah, that seems to be a reasonable default (menu where you click)
[10:35] <didrocks> so, not a blocker, just a polish
[10:35] <pitti> right
[10:35] <didrocks> that's not the behavior of what I was using: gtkMenuToolButton
[10:35] <didrocks> it position the button above or below
[10:35] <didrocks> but this button has two part: the button itself and the dropdown to show the menu
[10:35] <didrocks> in mpt's spec, it's only one button (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SoftwareCenter#oneconf)
[10:36] <didrocks> so trying to polish this with a regular button which shows the popupmenu
[10:46] <didrocks> ok, it works on the minimum "not reproducer" :/
[10:47] <didrocks> pitti: oh I get it, it's because I was on my secondary screen, and so x was outside my monitor and so, it sticks on the monitor border
[10:48] <didrocks> so in a nutshell, it works, I just have the get the absolute coordinate
[10:48] <pitti> nice!
[10:48] <pitti> didrocks: so the callback just returns the actual return value and all the out values in order?
[10:49] <didrocks> pitti: indeed, and you just have to not list them as args of the method of course :)
[10:49] <pitti> right
[10:49] <pitti> nice
[11:21] <jasoncwarner_> pitti: just sent you my bootcharts for today...now I'm going to bed! have to get up around 5 for a call :/
[11:34] <rodrigo_> hmm, I don't get any mail when packages in the queue are accepted (or rejected, don't know), is that normal?
[11:57] <Sweetshark> pitti, jasoncwarner_: tommorrow morning I wont be on IRC as I will fly to http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Hackfest2011
[11:57] <jasoncwarner_> Sweetshark: ok, thanks. have fun and crack some heads ;)
[11:58] <jasoncwarner_> Sweetshark: see if you can get any traction on simplifying the UI! :)
[11:58] <Sweetshark> jasoncwarner_: yep
[11:58]  * jasoncwarner_ notes that he sounds like a broken record sometimes
[11:59] <Sweetshark> jasoncwarner_: Christoph will be there too ...
[11:59] <jasoncwarner_> nice...when are you back?
[11:59] <Sweetshark> jasoncwarner_: I fly back on sunday.
[12:00] <jasoncwarner_> Sweetshark: ok...we'll catch up next week. cheers. have fun...
[12:00]  * jasoncwarner_ going to bed for real this time...
[12:05] <pitti> jasoncwarner_: ok, we need some further mods for that
[12:10]  * rodrigo_ -> lunch
[13:47]  * didrocks has a super small testcase working, but returning the same coordinate in pressing enter or clicking on the mouse doesn't do the same thing in software-center O_o
[13:50] <ronoc> pitti, is mvo on holidays ?
[13:51] <pitti> ronoc: yes
[13:55] <stgraber> didrocks: hey, for Edubuntu we're customizing the big-friendly-button of unity. Apparently diverting /usr/share/unity/4/launcher_bfb.png does the trick for the 3d version but not for the 2d one. Do you happen to know the equivalent?
[14:00] <didrocks> stgraber: I guess that agateau used the vendor-logo or something like that, but he should fix it for using the same
[14:00] <didrocks> agateau: FYI ^^
[14:00] <stgraber> agateau: bug 838829
[14:01] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 838829 in edubuntu-artwork "[UIFe] Big friendly button not customized in Unity 2d" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/838829
[14:01] <stgraber> agateau: I'm fine diverting another file if needed but I guess using the same icon for both versions would be better :)
[14:01] <agateau> stgraber: is it for Natty or Oneiric
[14:01] <agateau> ?
[14:01] <stgraber> agateau: Oneiric
[14:01] <agateau> stgraber: : I sent an email to design and dx asking if everyone agreed on using distributor-logo... it seems I was ignored :/
[14:02] <didrocks> agateau: stop using standard icons! :)
[14:03] <agateau> didrocks: heh, my mistake, won't happen again :)
[14:03] <didrocks> hope so! :-)
[14:05] <agateau> stgraber: I think bug 838829 should be reassigned to unity-2d (or at least marked as "also affect")
[14:05] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 838829 in edubuntu-artwork "[UIFe] Big friendly button not customized in Unity 2d" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/838829
[14:06] <stgraber> agateau: Sure, I can change that to "Make unity-2d use the same bfb icon as unity". Will I have that done by beta2?
[14:06] <agateau> stgraber: I think so
[14:06]  * agateau starts a branch
[14:11] <stgraber> agateau: should I assign that bug to you?
[14:11] <agateau> stgraber: please do
[14:14] <Daviey> GRRRRR.. who bound Alt+a ? :(
[14:22] <Daviey> How do you change keybindings in unity?
[14:28] <pitti> Daviey: bound to what?
[14:28] <pitti> Daviey: these days, in ccsm I think
[14:29] <pitti> but Alt+A doesn't do anything here, it gets into the application here
[14:29] <pitti> it's not supposed to be bound to anything
[15:03] <oier> I have seen that there is some kind of alt+' switcher but in my ccsm unity plugin I don't see any switcher tab to activate or configure it
[15:04] <oier> am I missing an update or a package?
[15:24] <tedg> pitti, Hey, what is the machine that has the archives on it that we can grep through?  I can't remember its name.
[15:24] <pitti> tedg: people.canonical.com? that's lillypilly
[15:24] <pitti> tedg: it's not about "Label Empty", is it?
[15:25] <tedg> pitti, I don't think so...
[15:25] <pitti> tedg: ok; I subscribed you to a bug, but it's debugged nwo
[15:25] <tedg> Ah, okay.  I forgot to start up my mail this morning, so it's still downloading :-)
[15:41] <didrocks> rebooting on unity-2d, brb
[15:42] <chrisccoulson> g'ah, trying to build the lightning source package is painful in oneiric
[15:42] <chrisccoulson> just the source
[15:42] <chrisccoulson> it takes nearly 15 minutes with bzip compression
[15:42] <chrisccoulson> and i have to do it 4 times :(
[15:45] <kenvandine> chrisccoulson, that sounds painful
[15:45] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: thunderbird-bin doesn't integrate to the session isn't it? (I always have it running and so, the gnome-session dialog)
[15:47] <chrisccoulson> didrocks, i'm not too sure what you're asking
[15:47] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: when I quit my session, I almost always have the "thunderbird-bin doesn't respond" dialog
[15:47] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: even if I closed the thunderbird window before
[15:49] <chrisccoulson> hmmm, i've not seen that before. in any case, there is no integration at all on the default install (for tbird or firefox), because libgnome isn't on the CD
[15:49] <chrisccoulson> so you won't see that dialog normally ;)
[15:50] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: I get it almost everytime
[15:50] <chrisccoulson> does thunderbird actually appear to close?
[15:53] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: the -bin is still their, but there is no more window
[15:54] <chrisccoulson> ah, ok
[15:54] <chrisccoulson> any chance of attaching gdb to the process?
[15:54] <chrisccoulson> i've seen a shutdown hang before
[15:57] <didrocks> rebooting with new gnome-session
[15:57] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: sure, will do that (probably tomorrow)
[15:57] <chrisccoulson> thanks
[16:09] <Daviey> pitti: sorry, missed your response. Seems that Alt+a is now doing 'similar' behaviour to alt+tab.. showing a preview rather than icons tho.
[16:09] <pitti> Daviey: hm, that's supposed to be Alt+`
[16:09] <pitti> njpatel, didrocks ^
[16:09] <Daviey> pitti: Hmm, yes - showing the same thing on both shortcuts for me
[16:10] <Daviey> a real pain the butt for irssi users :)
[16:10] <pitti> ok, that sounds like a bug
[16:10] <didrocks> Daviey: do you have unity trunk?
[16:10] <Daviey> didrocks: no, oneiric up-to-date
[16:10] <pitti> Daviey: at least it's not meant to behave like this, so it's fixable :)
[16:10] <Daviey> pitti: hurray!
[16:10] <didrocks> Daviey: ok, so, there is a change right now about it
[16:10] <Daviey> I am such a noob, i'm not quite sure what to raise it against.
[16:10] <didrocks> Daviey: normally, now, it tries to detect the key above the tab
[16:11] <pitti> Daviey: raising it against #ubuntu-desktop is not a bad start :)
[16:11] <didrocks> Daviey: I just pushed unity, it will be available in a few hours
[16:11] <Daviey> lol
[16:11] <pitti> didrocks: how is it supposed to detect where a key is located?
[16:11] <pitti> didrocks: my ` key is in the lower left corner of the keyboard..
[16:11] <Daviey> webcam + OCR?
[16:11] <pitti> above the Tab key is +/= for me
[16:11] <didrocks> yeah, webcam is required now  :)
[16:11] <Daviey> heh
[16:12] <didrocks> pitti: some low level xkeyboard API
[16:12] <didrocks> to have the ranges, and such
[16:12] <didrocks> mutter is doing the same btw
[16:12] <pitti> didrocks: that sounds crazy and bug prone
[16:12] <Daviey> didrocks: For the impatient, is there a PPA with trunk?
[16:12] <pitti> I've heard several people now who have that on totally unexpected keys
[16:12] <didrocks> pitti: there is a shortcut anyway, it seems the keycode is 45
[16:12] <didrocks> Daviey: no, there isn't
[16:12] <didrocks> pitti: for gnome-shell
[16:12] <didrocks> or unity?
[16:12] <pitti> unity, I suppose
[16:13] <didrocks> pitti: it was an hardcoded key before
[16:13] <pitti> didrocks: that sounds better
[16:13] <didrocks> worked only on US config
[16:13] <pitti> didrocks: how on earth is software supposed to be able to figure out how my keyboard is physically arranged?
[16:14] <didrocks> pitti: is it better to get the current state which is Alt + Altgr + è on a french keyboard, for instance?
[16:14] <pitti> Can't it be Alt+Tab and Ctrl+Tab or so?
[16:14] <didrocks> pitti: mutter is doing the same for a release already, I just saw that the unity guys went the same path (avoid random keys)
[16:14] <pitti> hardcoded is the opposite of random?
[16:14] <didrocks> and as they ignored modifier, it resulted in Daviey's bug, where A is mapped
[16:15] <didrocks> pitti: random in term of layout on the keyboard?
[16:15] <didrocks> pitti: Alt + Tab is already used, isn't it?
[16:15] <pitti> didrocks: Alt+Tab is hardcoded as well, isn't it?
[16:16] <didrocks> pitti: yeah, but on all keyboards, it's approximately at the same place
[16:16] <didrocks> anyway, it's not mentionned anywhere, not in the changelog, in any bug
[16:16] <didrocks> I just saw the change because I'm looking at unity trunk
[16:16] <pitti> didrocks: so using ctrl+tab for the "other" switcher would be a lot more predictable?
[16:17] <didrocks> pitti: that's a question for DBO and design I guess
[16:17] <pitti> how do you want to document/explain to people how to find the other switcher?
[16:17] <pitti> "Alt+some key on your keyboard, we can't tell you what it is" :)
[16:18] <DBO> you mean "alt + key above tab"
[16:18] <DBO> ?
[16:18] <didrocks> pitti: again, it's not a question for me :) I'm not even supposed to be aware about it…
[16:18] <pitti> DBO: except that it's not :)
[16:18] <DBO> pitti, how do you figure?
[16:18] <pitti> DBO: the key above tab is =/+ for me, and it doesn't do anythign with compiz
[16:19] <didrocks> pitti: it's in the incoming release
[16:19] <DBO> pitti, are you running trunk?
[16:19] <pitti> DBO: no, current oneiric
[16:19] <DBO> yeah you need trunk, the key detection works
[16:19] <DBO> I had several people do testing
[16:19] <DBO> you can too if you want
[16:19] <DBO> there is a test program in unity trunk you can run
[16:19] <DBO> it will tell you what the key above tab is on your layout
[16:20]  * pitti branches lp:unity
[16:20] <pitti> DBO: so no need to report all the bugs from e. g. Daviey?
[16:20] <pitti> we'll test that program from trunk instead?
[16:20] <DBO> yes just run the program
[16:21] <DBO> test-keyutil
[16:21] <DBO> in the tests directory
[16:21] <DBO> if it prints out a key that is not your key above tab
[16:21] <DBO> it failed
[16:21] <DBO> so far, it has not failed
[16:21] <pitti> ah, I guess I need to configure/make etc. first?
[16:21] <pitti> ah, no configure
[16:22] <pitti> didrocks: is there a trick how to only build tests/test-keyutil from a trunk checkout?
[16:22] <didrocks> pitti: mkdir build
[16:22] <didrocks> cd build
[16:22] <didrocks> cmake ..
[16:22] <didrocks> then, I guess cd tests && make
[16:22] <didrocks> (instead of make in the root dir)
[16:24] <desrt> arghghgh
[16:24]  * desrt spends the last two days chasing a ghost
[16:24] <DBO> pitti, sorry, didn't mean to leave you hanging
[16:24] <didrocks> DBO: did you saw that the keycode can always be 49 btw?
[16:24] <didrocks> DBO: that's why I read on some other code ;)
[16:24] <DBO> desrt, in the end, it's revealed that you are the ghost
[16:25] <didrocks> desrt: ghost window? :-)
[16:25] <desrt> DBO: i see kernel bugs?
[16:25] <DBO> desrt, I think you do
[16:25] <DBO> didrocks, what?
[16:25] <desrt> can everyone download and run a test program for me?
[16:25] <desrt> http://bugzilla-attachments.gnome.org/attachment.cgi?id=195399
[16:26] <Daviey> DBO: If you need helping testing something, please do let me know :)
[16:26] <desrt> it should print out a bunch of dots on your screen.  at some point, the dots should stop.
[16:27] <DBO> Daviey, what keyboard layout do you use?
[16:27] <didrocks> DBO: see the comment on http://git.gnome.org/browse/mutter/commit/?id=4ea00e102b6afe25e2b84f9def2f44da1b4953c6
[16:27] <DBO> desrt, it does this in a window, right?
[16:27] <desrt> DBO: it's a console program...
[16:28] <desrt> its interaction with you is limited to putchar('.'); fflush();
[16:28] <Daviey> DBO: Oddly, English (US) atm
[16:28] <Daviey> DBO: i do have an Xmodmap rebinding # to the button below Esc tho.
[16:28] <desrt> depending on your luck, the crash could happen immediately or after a thousand or so iterations
[16:28] <desrt> i've had to run it for as much as 5 minutes before
[16:29] <DBO> Daviey, do what pitti is doing
[16:29] <pitti> still building here
[16:29] <pitti> apparently cmake generates broken Makefiles which don't work with parallel building :(
[16:29] <Daviey> pitti: Are you building trunk unity for amd64?
[16:29] <pitti> Daviey: yes
[16:29] <DBO> I do -j4 constantly pitti
[16:30] <didrocks> pitti: it works with parallell building here (thanksfully)
[16:30] <Daviey> pitti: for the lazy, are you able to scp them somewhere?
[16:30] <pitti> it still seems to build the world, even when running make in tests/
[16:30] <pitti> Daviey: sure
[16:30] <didrocks> but still takes 30 minutes just for unity
[16:30] <Daviey> thanks.
[16:30] <DBO> didrocks, I am making it longer by adding more test applications
[16:30] <DBO> sorry!
[16:30] <didrocks> DBO: what, you do test? where is the snow? :)
[16:31] <pitti> Daviey: http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/tmp/test-keyutil-amd64
[16:31] <pitti> Key above Tab is grave
[16:31] <pitti> well, what I thought
[16:32] <pitti> I suppose that's based on the standard physical layout of a keyboard, not my real keyboard :)
[16:32] <pitti> but I guess I'm a bit of a special case here
[16:33] <pitti> DBO: &
[16:33] <pitti> DBO: and when I switch to German layout, it still says the same
[16:33] <DBO> pitti, what?
[16:33] <pitti> sorry, that was meant to be a ^
[16:34] <DBO> pitti, I honestly have no idea if that is right for you or not
[16:34] <pitti> DBO: anyway, Alt+` was workign for me, so I guess Daviey's output is more interesting
[16:34] <pitti> DBO: http://www.kinesis-ergo.com/images/kb_adv-pro_met720x471.jpg is my keyboard
[16:34] <DBO> pitti, okay screw that
[16:35] <didrocks> pitti: what is the keycode for reference,
[16:35] <pitti> but as there is no way to find out about the physical layout of a keyboard, I guess that's the next best thing
[16:35] <pitti> DBO: I'm not worried about my case
[16:35] <pitti> DBO: I'm worried about Daviey's
[16:35] <pitti> DBO: but it seems there is no point in reporting Daviey's bug now, when that got changed in trunk after all, right?
[16:35] <pitti> didrocks: for what?
[16:35] <didrocks> +=
[16:36] <DBO> pitti, what layout does your keyboard report itself as?
[16:36] <pitti> DBO: US
[16:36] <Daviey> pitti: sorry, before i exec this - what is it? :)
[16:36] <pitti> Daviey: don't worry, just an alias for rm -r
[16:36] <Daviey> oh good
[16:36] <pitti> Daviey: no, it just prints out a list to stdout, nothing more
[16:37] <didrocks> pitti: I meant, the keycode of the key += (the one above the Tab)
[16:37] <DBO> didrocks, his keyboard is lying to the xserver
[16:37] <DBO> clearly that wont work
[16:37]  * Daviey trusts pitti :)
[16:37] <pitti> KeyPress event, serial 36, synthetic NO, window 0x4200001,
[16:37] <pitti>     root 0xbe, subw 0x0, time 40499628, (150,16), root:(766,853),
[16:37] <pitti>     state 0x0, keycode 21 (keysym 0x3d, equal), same_screen YES,
[16:37] <didrocks> yeah, it won't work then :)
[16:37] <Daviey> pitti: http://pb.daviey.com/0QFc/
[16:37] <pitti> "Key above Tab is numbersign"
[16:38] <pitti> Daviey: does that sound true?
[16:38] <Daviey> pitti: blame me for that, Xmodmap.
[16:38] <DBO> so its true for you Daviey?
[16:38] <Daviey> $ cat ~/.Xmodmap
[16:38] <Daviey> keycode 49=numbersign
[16:38] <Daviey> keycode 94=dead_tilde
[16:38] <Daviey> remove Lock = Caps_Lock
[16:39] <desrt> DBO: did it crash yet?
[16:39] <Daviey> I can retest without that, if it helps test this?
[16:39] <didrocks> pitti: and for your question about discoverability, this is another way than the arrow to show the instances FYI
[16:39] <DBO> desrt, oh sorry I forgot to run it with everything else
[16:39] <desrt> s'ok :)
[16:39] <desrt> didrocks: can you test too, maybe?
[16:40] <didrocks> desrt: sure
[16:40] <DBO> desrt, didn't crash
[16:40] <DBO> but
[16:40] <DBO> stopped printing dots
[16:40] <desrt> DBO: the stopping is the crashing
[16:41] <desrt> can you give me your uname -r?
[16:41] <DBO> 3.0.0-9-generic
[16:41] <desrt> thanks
[16:41] <desrt> apt-cache policy for libc, too?
[16:41] <didrocks> desrt: same here, same kernel
[16:42] <didrocks> 2.13-17ubuntu2
[16:42] <desrt> thanks
[16:42] <DBO> desrt, same as didrocks
[16:43] <DBO> desrt, it prints a different number of dots each time if that helps
[16:43] <pitti> Daviey: would be interesting to confirm, anyway, I guess
[16:43] <desrt> DBO: it's a race... it happens by random chance
[16:43] <desrt> we're on eglibc these days, right?
[16:43] <DBO> pitti, you jelly of my key above tab code?
[16:44] <pitti> DBO: "jelly"?
[16:44] <DBO> sorry... too much reddit lately
[16:44] <DBO> you dont like the key above tab stuff?
[16:44] <pitti> DBO: my original question was debugging Daviey's issue of Alt+A, which is certainly unexpected
[16:45] <pitti> and then we found that trunk uses a different approach than what's in oneiric right now
[16:45] <pitti> so I guess the original bug is moot now
[16:45] <DBO> more or less
[16:45] <pitti> I still think Ctrl+Tab might be a little easier to document/explain/be more robust, but as long as it doesn't grab letters any more, I'm fin e:)
[16:46] <DBO> pitti, ctrl+tab is used by other applications
[16:46] <DBO> and you cant switch from alt-tab to ctrl-tab without the switcher going away
[17:05] <Daviey> pitti: http://pb.daviey.com/1Cbb/
[17:05] <Daviey> unmodified layout.
[17:09] <Daviey> (incidently, without my modified layout alt+a works again)
[17:18] <desrt> DBO, didrocks; can you try again with -static?
[17:18] <DBO> desrt, sure
[17:19] <desrt> annoyingly, static linking appears to solve the problem for me
[17:19] <DBO> same
[17:19] <desrt> which prevents me from checking old libc versions with new kernels
[17:19] <desrt> puts more weight on chances of it being a libc bug, though
[17:22] <desrt> time for a libc bug, methinks
[18:13] <kenvandine> pitti, are you still around?
[18:25] <pitti> kenvandine: again, yes (was at dinner)
[18:25] <kenvandine> pitti, nm... unping :)
[18:26] <pitti> heh
[18:28] <dbarth> Amaranth: see https://bugs.launchpad.net/nux/+bug/838693
[18:28] <ubot2`> Ubuntu bug 838693 in compiz "Add support for GL-ES" [Undecided,New]
[18:29] <Amaranth> dbarth: so the compiz changes are 59 files changed, 2330 insertions(+), 2934 deletions(-)
[18:29] <Amaranth> and that's just compiz, not even including compiz-plugins-main
[18:30] <Amaranth> yay for removing more code than added, I guess :)
[18:30] <dbarth> Amaranth: woops
[18:30] <dbarth> oh right, smspillaz mentioned the plugin rewrite you had to do
[18:30] <Amaranth> haven't rewritten any plugins yet, just ported them all
[18:31] <dbarth> well, yeah, in that case it's a significant distro-patch
[18:38]  * didrocks waves goodnight
[19:00] <DBO> its 3PM and all is quiet in the desktop team
[19:00] <pitti> it's 9 pm, and my wife gets angry :)
[19:00] <pitti> FTR, pygobject 2.90 uploaded \o/
[19:31] <pitti> good night everyone!
[19:33] <bryceh> pitti, night
[19:33] <cyphermox> night pitti
[22:33] <dupondje> Seems like network-manager-openvpn is broken
[22:33] <dupondje> it does not change default route to the vpn tunnel, even if wanted