/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/09/01/#ubuntu-uk.txt

ubuntuuk-planet[Alan Bell] The science of meetings - http://www.theopensourcerer.com/2011/09/01/the-science-of-meetings/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=the-science-of-meetings00:07
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DJonesMorning all07:18
daubersMorning07:20
diploMorning all07:33
AlanBellmorning peeps07:41
TheOpenSourcerermorning and good day :-)07:42
dauberso/07:47
MooDoohello all07:53
Hippychickmorning07:54
MartijnVdS\o07:55
bigcalmMorning peeps :)08:04
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bigcalmVersion 6 of FF?08:14
* bigcalm kicks Moz08:15
JamesTaitGood morning!08:16
LcawteOld news... :P08:18
oimonkernel.org hacked?08:22
dwatkinsI suspect they're trying to race up to version 2010.08:22
jpdsoimon: Cracked, thank you08:23
oimondwatkins: MS would be on version 2013 to make it sound modern08:23
oimonjpds: hacked every day :D08:23
MooDoocracked cracked cracked, for all that is holy, cracked.....:)08:24
oimonlet's compromise on "compromised "08:25
oimon:)08:25
MooDooaccepted :)08:26
bigcalmhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zE5PGeh2K9k08:52
DJonesbigcalm: I hope that video doesn't involve you & tutu's after your twitter status08:54
bigcalmHehe :P08:54
bigcalmNo, you're safe08:55
* DJones clicks link then08:56
DJonesThat looks like something for daubers to make to go with his electronic door bell08:57
HazRPGgoooooooood mornin' ma IT ninjas!08:58
oimonhmmm. if my wife says that she told me something, but i have no recollection of it, i wonder what's more likely. (1) she never told me (2) i wasn't listening (3) 1 & 2 probably occur in roughly equal amounts09:02
AlanBelldoesn't matter in the end, it will be your fault09:03
oimonseems to be , yes09:03
oimonwhy is that?09:03
freakyclown(1) always happened..its your fault for not hearing her thoughts09:03
MooDoooimon: women are always right, even when they are wrong they are right, have you not learnt this yet?09:03
AlanBellone of life's mysteries09:04
oimonseems a bit unfair to me09:04
AlanBellanyhow, this happy hour thing in London09:04
oimonwhen did a man ever get in a sulk about anything (other than dropping a phone down teh toilet)09:04
oimonor losing a game of sport09:04
AlanBell^^ right there09:04
AlanBellso, London, pub in a few weeks09:05
AlanBellit was kind of penciled in for Saturday 17th, however I am not sure about that09:05
AlanBellshould it be more of a mid-week after work thing?09:05
christelno, come visit me at spire clare park on the 17th instead09:06
christelyou can bring beer09:07
* christel nods09:07
BigRedSI'd like it to be a weekend thing, 'cause I'm only in London at the weekend :)09:07
BigRedSbut I'm not on that weekend, so that's moot...09:07
AlanBellokies, pick a weekend09:07
AlanBellchristel: that isn't a pub!09:07
christelwell, we can turn it into a pub for the day09:08
bigcalm:D09:08
christelill wake up from surgery and you can all be drunk and entertain me09:08
AlanBell:)09:08
christelit would be brilliant!09:08
AlanBellsounds great09:08
christel\o/09:08
bigcalmchristel: while you're high on pills? :)09:09
christeli asked gareth if he'd bring david up when i came out of surgery, and he's all "no, we'll be watching soccer saturday"09:09
christel"thanks"09:09
AlanBellwrong answer /o\09:09
daubers\o/ bikes mended09:10
oimonthere must be an easier way of making changes to puppet config..this is scary :(09:10
christelbigcalm: whenever am i not? :P09:10
Dave2oimon: manage it with puppet.09:11
HazRPGoimon: agrees with others, women are always right... no ifs or buts about it... they'll be right regardless...09:11
oimoni'm scared that a mistake would get sent to all puppet clients09:11
Dave2We had our dev systems...accidentally pick up some production puppet config. We couldn't log in to our test systems any more. That was fun.09:12
HazRPGoimon: for me, it really sucks, because I've been known to talk in my sleep sometimes (even if I look away and conscious...) and some of my ex's have used that to their advantage (sadly)... and thing is, I don't know if they actually are using it to their advantage - since I don't recall any sleep-based conversations at all!09:12
oimoni usually just say om nom nom nom in my sleep09:13
Hippychickmy brother used to talk in his sleep, i recall one time him going on about being a girl or somthing...09:16
Hippychickthe hotel had made a mistake with the rooms and we had to share... :(09:16
freakyclownHippychick: go read sleeptalkingman09:17
freakyclownor rather listen to rather than read09:17
daubersAlanBell: Septembers not great for me (had to pay for lots of car/bike stuff :( ) but if this one is this month, I shall make a concerted effort to make the next one09:22
AlanBellthe idea is that they will bounce about all over the place, so missing one is fine, there will  be more09:24
HazRPGI'm really intrigued by the news of what happened to kernel.org09:26
AlanBellhow about 3 weeks today, 22nd September09:26
diploHazRPG: Seems some one got some ones credentials and went from there09:27
diploI doubt until they find/fix any issues will they release full details09:27
AlanBella Thursday evening post-work pub meet in London09:27
MooDooHazRPG: there is site news on the site now if you've not seen it09:27
AlanBellpretty near to Millbank09:27
HazRPGHippychick: worst thing is, I can physically move around sometimes and do things and completely forget when I wake up properly - its freaky09:28
HazRPGdoesn't happen often, buts its scary that it happens at all09:28
freakyclownHazRPG: my g/f is like that..will seem to be awake and alert and can converse09:28
freakyclownbut its generally about jibberish09:28
HazRPGMooDoo: yeah I was reading it ^_^09:28
freakyclownlike rats or spiders09:28
HazRPGMooDoo: but I want to know how they actually got in, more than what they did09:28
MooDooah09:28
AlanBellso the Canonical peeps have a few weeks to arange an important reason to visit HQ that happens to be on the 22nd09:28
oimonHazRPG: i read it was via a compromised account, then an unknown root hack09:29
HazRPGfreakyclown: heh, interesting ^_^09:29
oimonfreakyclown: my wife does the spiders thing09:29
oimonand thinks she sees them in the room. we have to turn on lights etc09:29
freakyclownyeah same thing09:30
freakyclowni think its eyelashes or something they see09:30
oimonfreakyclown: it's imaginary :D09:30
freakyclownthat or their fricken mental09:30
HazRPGmy ex (still great friends - one that got away, bla bla bla), just as she nods off... she'll talk gibberish too09:30
oimondoes your gf have dyslexia or chronic fatigue?09:30
freakyclownnope09:30
oimonok just checking09:30
freakyclownshes just batshit crazy09:30
oimoni always jump up and say there,there, it's ok..no spiders etc09:31
HazRPGoimon: ^_^09:31
oimonbut i couldn't ever live in australia, because i'd be the one jumping up09:31
oimonbecause there really MIGHT be spiders09:31
HazRPGoimon: esp, if it was a black widow!09:32
freakyclownim always tempted to just roll with it and start screaming and going "omg spiders their all over me aggghhh" and run out the room09:32
HazRPGoimon: that would scare the living crap out of me!09:32
oimonor the red back ..teeny weeny thing that kills you09:32
diploDont want to live at my house, loads of spiders!09:32
HazRPGoimon: yeah, sorry that was the one that I meant09:32
oimoni learnt about it on Home and Away lol09:32
freakyclownits the stingrays you want to look out for!09:33
oimoni'm staying in UK09:33
HazRPGheh09:33
freakyclownsneaking into your bed09:33
oimonit would turn me OCD...checking shoes every 5 seconds09:33
HazRPGyou you really want to get scared of spiders, live in saudi... those things are friggin' huge!09:33
HazRPGif you*09:33
freakyclownahah those sand spiders?09:34
oimonewww09:34
HazRPGdesert spiders09:34
HazRPGyeahs09:34
HazRPGbig scary mf's!09:34
oimonjust about to rollout my new SL6.1 distro :D09:34
freakyclownsame as coconut crabs09:34
* AlanBell suggests moving this to #ubuntu-spiders09:34
HazRPGmake anyone poop themselves!09:34
freakyclownthose are friggen HUGE09:34
bigcalm:(09:34
HazRPGfreakyclown: haha, did you google them?09:35
freakyclown?09:35
HazRPGdesert spiders09:35
freakyclownnah i knew of them already09:35
* bigcalm does some work until the talk of spiders has gone away09:36
freakyclownthere was a great forced perspective photo of a camel spiders in iraq09:36
freakyclownmade them look about 3 foot wide09:36
* DJones hands bigcalm a rolled up newspaper09:37
freakyclownhttp://www.camelspiders.net/large-camel-spider-picture.htm09:37
oimonwith a flame thrower09:37
oimontoo many legs surely?09:37
oimonor is that 2 of them?09:38
freakyclownthats two of them09:38
oimonewwwww09:38
HazRPGheh: http://youtu.be/_k5j6IuHGxA?t=1m09:38
* oimon hides until spiders have gone09:38
HazRPGI think those boys had way too much fun out there ^_^09:39
oimonthis isn't helpful09:39
HazRPGheh, I think we've freaked too many people out with the spider talk ^_^09:40
DJonesSpider talk has upset freenode09:40
gordso not "camel spider attacks infant" like my firefox tab said then09:40
gorddisappointing09:40
HazRPGhttp://spiderman-web.com/spiderman/wallpaper/80s_spiderman/spidey.jpg09:41
HazRPGthere, that's a friendly spider ^_^09:41
AlanBellhttp://ubuntu-uk.org/2011/09/01/ubuntu-uk-happy-hour/10:01
AlanBellcould some people proof read that please10:02
brobostigongood morning everyone.10:02
BigRedSAlanBell: "its up to you." at the end of the first para should be "it's"10:04
freakyclownAlanBell: looks good but maybe say something about how its more of a social meet and greet (to put faces to names) rather than a techy geek fest with laptops and talks?10:04
jmlhey, sorry if this is off topic10:04
BigRedSAlanBell: the Cask is in Pimlico, not Pimplico10:04
jmlbut my laptop isn't suspending reliably in oneiric any more. how can I report this usefully?10:04
BigRedSbut I might start calling it pimplico :)10:04
jmlBigRedS: *yes*10:04
AlanBelllol,10:04
bigcalmMy machine has recently started rebooting instead of shutting down, sleeping or hibernating :S10:05
DJonesjml: Might be worth asking in #ubuntu+1 with it being a omeiric query, as the testing version support channel, there may already be a solution that they're aware of, at least they should be able to help you diagnose it10:09
jmlDJones: OK. Will try that.10:11
jmlDJones: I've historically had poor luck there, though.10:11
DJonesjml: Its quite often quiet, but once it gets going they're very helpful, if you don't get an answer there, come back here though and ask10:11
jmlDJones: will do.10:11
DJonesI haven't tried it yet, so I'd be no help :)10:12
* MooDoo is getting sick of people asking him if he's irish....FFS it's only an old style ireland rugger top :S10:13
daubersMooDoo: They'll generally ask twice, to be sure to be sure10:14
MooDoolol10:14
* daubers gets his coat10:14
bigcalmdaubers: heheh :)10:14
HippychickMooDoo, are you irish? *run, hide*10:14
MooDoogrrrrrrrrrrr10:14
MooDoogod i hope czajkowski isn't here ;)10:15
bigcalmShe's just returned to London, so you're safe until she reads the scroll10:15
MooDoophew10:15
* AlanBell tweets and facebooks and plusses the happy hour10:16
* daubers retweets and replusses10:17
Hippychicki like the sound of the happy hour stuff, i just dont know of any good pubs near me10:18
daubersHippychick: Spoons'll do10:18
daubersHippychick: Or a nice-ish restaurant10:18
AlanBellHippychick: where is near you?10:19
Hippychickmaidstone, kent10:19
Hippychicknot long moved there, so not sure whats about10:19
freakyclownarrange a chunnel lug!10:19
AlanBellwell we have Canterbury on the list10:20
AlanBelland Maidstone into London isn't much of a stretch10:20
freakyclownback when i was a kid we used to have london2600 hacker meets on the circle line train with battery powered hubs etc10:20
freakyclowntrain meets can be fun :)10:20
AlanBellcan't drink on the tube any more10:20
AlanBellhowever I do want to put a RAT on the list10:21
Hippychickyeah, my biggest problem at the moment is work, takes me and hour-hour and a half to get home at the moment10:21
AlanBellhttp://www.watercressline.co.uk/Our-Services/RAT10:21
daubersThat was quite enjoyable last time10:22
AlanBellwhen they open up tickets for next year I will propose a date to add to the happy hour schedule10:23
daubers\o/10:25
AlanBellhttp://twitter.com/#!/CASK_PUB_SW1/status/10921001998733312010:26
HazRPGhmm, don't know if I like this news: http://torrentfreak.com/government-bans-use-of-encryption-and-vpns-110831/10:26
bigcalmWhich gov?10:26
MartijnVdSPakistan10:27
bigcalm:(10:27
bigcalmGood luck enforcing that10:27
AlanBellheh, can't see that lasting long10:27
AlanBelldear ISPs, have any of your customers made an HTTPS connection to any website . . .10:27
bigcalmAnd the gov are to be completely unencrypted as well eh?10:27
bigcalmAlanBell: could redirect all port 443 traffic to 80 at an ISP level10:28
MooDoosounds a good idea.....anyone want my bank details now?10:28
freakyclowntbh most governments just put a man in the middle box and spoof the secure parts10:29
oimonsounds like they've been reading cory doctorow's little brother book10:29
freakyclowni attended a talk by a er.. let call him a rebel..and how he and his friends circumvented such things..very very scary stuff10:30
bigcalmfreakyclown: your talk was scary stuff itself :P10:30
freakyclownbigcalm: you should hear the stuff i cant talk about :P10:31
oimonfreakyclown: i watched your rather decent talk yesterday. can you elaborate on that cropped image example? i didn't get it10:31
bigcalmoimon: which bit?10:31
HazRPGoimon: I liked that book ^_^, was an interesting read to say the least10:31
AlanBellthe thumbnail of the original in the cropped image file10:32
oimonwhen he showed a cropped image and then said lots of info was stored in the jpg, then showed the full size image10:32
oimonwhere did the full size one come from10:32
BigRedSoimon: it's thethumbnail10:32
bigcalmI tried to explain, to my better half, the use of looking at the red/green direction to see where a bit of the image was copied from.10:32
AlanBellchromatic abberation was amazing10:33
HazRPGbigcalm: I'm sure the government will still be using secure connections, in the article it states "Anyone wishing to carry on using them must get official permission." - so I'm sure the government will easily be exempt from this ban.10:33
bigcalmThank you, couldn't think of the word10:33
oimonsorry , i'm being dumb re: the thumbnail, still don't get it10:34
HazRPGfreakyclown: which talk did you do?10:34
AlanBelloimon: the camera saves the picture and the thumbnail. The software that does the cropping updates the image but fails to update the thumbnail because it is buggy10:34
oimonoic10:34
AlanBellso the thumbnail of the full image remains untouched and forgotten about10:34
oimonsaved inside the jpeg?10:34
bigcalmI like that everybody but freakyclown is answering oimon's question which was directed at freakyclown :)10:34
bigcalmYes10:35
BigRedSI've been pondering ways of fooling exactly that. Using freakyclown's other scripts to find alternative original images, and putting thumbnails of *those* in10:35
oimonwhat's the sw called again? cli_track?10:35
HazRPGam I missing something here o.O?10:36
freakyclownwtf i step away for two minutes to talk about firewall configs and im ACTUALLY needed!10:36
freakyclownCliTrack btw10:36
freakyclownand yes @ thumbnail stuff10:36
oimonftw :P10:36
freakyclownand no its not released (yet)10:36
oimonby all accounts it was one of the best talks of the weekend10:36
freakyclownand it was Digital Image Forensics (2)10:36
freakyclownthank you :)10:36
bigcalmHazRPG: https://blip.tv/episode/548761210:37
oimoni was in another talk at the time and twitter was lit up10:37
freakyclown:D10:37
oimoni reckon you could do a 2 hr session with all that material10:37
freakyclownoddly i keep getting asked to do a talk on lockpicking next year... far far too many people saw that slide10:38
freakyclownand ive done image forensics stuff for two oggcamps now - need to change it up ithink10:38
oimonlol, i'm sure lockpicking is on a need to know basis and that's why we pay locksmiths10:38
freakyclownnah its a massive thing for hobbiests10:39
freakyclowni was asked to run a workshop this week on it for a security conference in london - but alas work gets in the way sometimes10:39
freakyclowna talk at oggcamp might kick me back into writing more of my book too :(10:40
oimon"how to stalk women on the internet"?10:40
freakyclownoimon: ive covered that twice now ;)10:40
freakyclownpeople are learning from it and not posting pictures online10:41
MartijnVdS.. for dummies?10:41
MartijnVdS:P10:41
bigcalmfreakyclown: have you contacted the lady in the USA that you used in your recent talk at oggcamp?10:41
freakyclownhannah?10:41
bigcalmIf that was her name, yes :)10:41
freakyclownithink i mentioned in sundays talk ;)10:42
oimonwas the sunday talk the same one?10:42
freakyclownyeah10:42
bigcalmI attended Saturday's talk10:42
freakyclownyet people still came to see it again!10:42
freakyclowncrazy!10:42
oimoni attended a couple of duff ones on sat10:42
oimonand also good ones :D10:42
freakyclowni attended mine...it sucked LOL10:42
oimonu had heard it before? :P10:43
freakyclownyeah so obvious where it was going too!10:43
oimonthe location data is on;y put in if that option is selected on your phone though,right?10:45
freakyclownalot are on by default though10:46
MartijnVdSfreakyclown: alot? http://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.com/2010/04/alot-is-better-than-you-at-everything.html10:47
* bigcalm grins10:49
bigcalmMartijnVdS: I was thinking the same but held my tongue for a change :P10:49
MartijnVdSbigcalm: :)10:50
bigcalmLooks like the drawing style of the Oatmeal10:50
HazRPGbigcalm: cheers :)10:53
HazRPGfreakyclown: haha love your intro ^_^10:53
bigcalmGah, nearly lunch time. This week has slipped away from me10:59
Hippychickbigcalm, luckey you, i keep thinig its friday then realising its not... :(11:00
daubersHippychick: That's a good thing :( I've got about a weeks work to do in the next 3 days11:01
AlanBellMartijnVdS: she got the vivitar camcorder in the end, preferred the shape to hold11:01
Hippychickdaubers, ive got 55 support jobs which are suppost to be closed by end of day tomorrow11:03
Hippychicksomehow i dont think its going to happen11:03
czajkowskiMooDoo: I will throttle you11:03
bigcalmczajkowski: welcome back :)11:04
czajkowskicheers11:04
MooDooczajkowski: oh how i've missed you xx11:05
AlanBello/ czajkowski11:05
AlanBellmoved the happy hour11:05
ubuntuuk-planet[AlanBell] Ubuntu-UK Happy Hour - http://ubuntu-uk.org/2011/09/01/ubuntu-uk-happy-hour/11:07
AlanBellhttp://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/1257/detail/11:12
HazRPGfreakyclown: haha, love the talk dude ^_^11:18
freakyclownthank you :)11:20
HazRPGmost epic I must say :)11:21
HazRPGgreat work with the tool too, I do like forensics... kept meaning to do some work with jpeg's myself, because the number of people that don't realise how flawed it is... is unreal!11:22
brobostigonafternoonings HazRPG :)11:22
HazRPGbrobostigon: afternoon squire ^_^11:22
freakyclownright i have to go break into a building - will chat later HazRPG11:23
HazRPGo.O11:23
MartijnVdSAlanBell: ah, that's an important thing to consider as well :)11:24
HazRPGsure, gl;hf dude11:24
freakyclownlol dont worry its my job!11:24
HazRPGfreakyclown: I figured ;)11:24
MartijnVdSHazRPG: "lf;dy"? :)11:24
HazRPGgl;hf - good luck, have fun11:24
HazRPGMartijnVdS: what's lf;dy?11:24
MartijnVdSHazRPG: live fast, die young :)11:24
HazRPGah11:24
MooDoogo straight ahead very fast, if anything gets in your way....TURN!11:25
MartijnVdSHazRPG: http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A103792711:25
HazRPGMartijnVdS: heh11:30
oimonooh oneiric beta1 out today innit?11:32
AlanBellyup11:32
HazRPGoimon: I think so yeah11:32
* oimon updates11:33
HazRPGhmm, that brings me to... what's happening with the release of oneiric?11:33
HazRPGas in, release party wise11:33
MartijnVdSLots of booze?11:33
HazRPGaside from that :P11:34
HazRPGtime/location/etc11:34
HazRPG(would like to attend some sort of open-sourced thing before I decide to move off to Egypt)11:34
MartijnVdSah, they don't have booze there, do they? :)11:35
brobostigonHazRPG: i was thinking about a release party, but, i feel somewhat discouraged.11:35
andylockranpft11:35
HazRPGMartijnVdS: heh, they do... but its more of a black hole for things open-source there ^_^11:35
andylockranDDoS Mitigation Strategies !FTW11:35
AlanBellHazRPG: there will be one in London as per usual11:35
MartijnVdSHazRPG: Start up your own open-source lab there :)11:36
HazRPGMartijnVdS: Trust me, that is part of the plan ;)11:36
AlanBellwhich will be the normal Canonical nominate a pub at the last minute and some people turn up kind of thing11:36
HazRPGI know there's already a hackerspace in Cairo... so that should ease things a bit :)11:36
HazRPGpart of my "moving to egypt" plan, is to try and get open-source more wide-spread there11:37
AlanBellwe could do a separate event when the CDs arrive11:37
AlanBellsome other teams distribute *all* their CD allocation within a week11:38
HazRPGmost of the IT people I know from Egypt, generally associate Linux and things open-source as being "research" based and "scary looking" just because that's what they used for uni-based stuff11:38
MartijnVdSHazRPG: but it IS scary-looking :)11:38
HazRPGMartijnVdS: If you've ever looked at research codebases, yes this is correct! And this is what the IT guys over there seem to associate with open-source, because that's what they've used/seen... they don't seem to realise the other stuff that happens around them11:39
=== Lcawte is now known as Guest19987
HazRPGe.g. there's this one lass I know out there, that prefers Windows to Linux because she constantly had to fight with trying to compile the codebase they had... so she hates linux for that reason alone...11:40
HazRPGI tried to show her some videos of my desktop, and she didn't seem to believe that was actually a linux-based distro that I was using11:41
HazRPGso plan is: get some open-source support going :)11:41
MartijnVdSdidn't you convert  your family to Linux? :)11:42
HazRPGbusiness plan: introduce and teach people about IT, get some open-source awareness out there... and see what happens. That's my aim :)11:42
andylockranand target the government too11:42
andylockranfresh govt, fresh ideas11:42
HazRPGMartijnVdS: I've converted my aunt to ubuntu, so yeah... the rest are interested, but too scare to covert because they think it will be too hard to learn11:42
HazRPGandylockran: hopefully :)11:43
HazRPGMartijnVdS: to be honest I don't blame them... my arabic reading skills are poor at best, however the translation for ubuntu is just awful!11:43
HazRPGMy aunt is really good at both English & Arabic... and she teaches Music and some IT stuff in a school... which is why she was easy to convert... however she found it odd the way Ubuntu translates some of the stuff in the O/S11:44
MartijnVdSHazRPG: time to brush up on  your arabic, and improve the translations11:45
HazRPGCompared to the English version of Ubuntu, the Arabic one seems to be wayyyyy too formal11:45
HazRPGAnd sort of incomplete in places...11:45
HazRPG(me and my aunt was going through some of the translation scripts on launchpad)11:46
HazRPGMartijnVdS: Hopefully. :)11:46
HazRPGMartijnVdS: Either alone, or with some help from my Aunt. :)11:46
oimonpostie just delivered my touchpad case and the new issue of linux magazine :) happy days11:47
HazRPGMuch like how there's a few different English localisations... I want to see if I can get an Egyptian Arabic one... since they're terminology for stuff is so different to traditional arabic, which is what Ubuntu uses for the Arabic stuff11:47
HazRPGwow, seems only 25% of ubuntu is translated11:51
HazRPGoimon: nice :)11:51
HazRPGMartijnVdS: Perfect example of bad translation: https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/oneiric/+source/gfxboot-theme-ubuntu/+pots/bootloader/ar/+translate11:53
MartijnVdSHazRPG: I can't read Arabic at all11:53
HazRPGOK has been translated to "Hasna" which means "Well"11:53
HazRPGthe suggestions are much better, and are common in both Mac and Windows11:54
oimonhasna in scottish means "has not"11:54
HazRPGe.g. first one "na'am" which means "yes" or "okay" depending on context11:54
HazRPGoimon: I know :P11:55
MartijnVdSHazRPG: "If you must", in British English?11:55
HazRPG2nd suggestion: "Muafa'" or "Muafak" (depending on dialect, Egyptians don't pounce the "Kof" letter): means "in agreement" or "okay" again depending on context - which I think is what Windows uses11:56
HazRPGjust because "Na'am" is more used as "Yes"11:56
* czajkowski wallops TheOpenSourcerer 11:57
TheOpenSourcererAfternoon czajkowski :-)11:57
TheOpenSourcererHow was the salmon ;-)11:57
oimonmaybe shouldn't have bought an ipad case for it :-S11:57
czajkowskiTheOpenSourcerer: no idea I dont eat salmon but it was purchased12:03
HazRPGMartijnVdS: Just put a translation in that was missing ^_^12:19
HazRPGas a suggestion12:19
oimonHazRPG: how's your php code?12:21
HazRPGoimon: hmm?12:21
HazRPGhow'd ya mean?12:21
oimonjust happened to be looking at http://jobs.guardian.co.uk/job/4345493/php-developer-arabic-speaking/12:21
HazRPGah12:22
HazRPGheh, I like how it says "Arabic speaking" that would be prefect for me... however my reading and writing is poor ^_^12:23
oimonthat wouldn't necessarily get picked up at interview ;)12:23
HazRPGtrue :P12:23
MartijnVdS"I'll wing it"12:23
oimonactually it's not a requirement either12:23
oimonare you working/looking for work ?12:24
MooDoowho isn't looking for work ;)12:24
HazRPGtechnically I'm self-employed at the moment, just because its easier than trying to find work12:25
oimoni'll have an opening for a Linux sysadmin soon hopefully12:26
HazRPGhowever, planning on moving to Egypt after I finish the last set of projects I have lined up to look after my mum (had a nasty accident earlier in the year she's still recovering from), and because she wants to set up a business and wants me to be the IT man of the whole thing12:26
MooDoooimon: where are you based?12:27
oimonLondon  E112:27
HazRPGI feel like I'm being a bit of an idiot at the moment lol12:28
MooDooHazRPG: i had that feeling this morning12:28
HazRPGthe one time I'm not looking for word (not actively, because I have ideas/plans in mind)... is when jobs are being thrown my way12:28
HazRPGs/word/work/*12:29
oimoni have a duty to my wife + son to bring home the bacon12:29
MooDoosnap!12:29
Hippychickmmmm bacon!12:29
* Hippychick wants bacon now...12:30
MooDoobacon, pancakes and maple syrup12:30
Hippychickyum12:30
gordyou all suck12:30
HazRPGmy dad offered me a Web Manager/Developer job up in saudi about a week ago, probably not as well paid as the one you mentioned... however taxes are less, and cost of living is cheaper...12:30
gorddo not mention bacon unless i have bacon12:30
oimoni'm increasingly getting stitched up in my job, and if i was single i would have moved already12:30
MooDoogord: just blame Hippychick12:30
HazRPGMooDoo: o'rly? Why did you feel that way this morning?12:31
gordMooDoo, i blame you!12:31
Hippychickme? :(12:31
MooDooHazRPG: kept stalling my motorbike, forgot umpteen passwords, couldn't remember simple linux commands, kept trying to restart httpd when i'm on a debian box....sigh12:31
* oimon crosses MooDoo off the shortlist12:32
MooDoooimon: oi ;)12:33
MooDooHippychick: mwah! :)12:33
Hippychickeeep, boss has just come in12:35
HazRPGoimon: haha12:36
oimonquick,hide!12:36
HazRPGMooDoo: oopsie!12:36
HazRPGMooDoo: Just one of those days?12:36
MooDooHippychick: update table set field = 'boss is cool' where id = 52 limit 1;  isn't that what you were after?12:36
MooDooHazRPG: i'm ok now, think it's baby brain as in i want my new one NOW! :)12:37
oimon13:3712:37
oimonbtw the latest issue of linux journal is free and worth reading12:38
oimonhttp://www.linuxjournal.com/content/free-sample-issue12:39
oimonactually i found a page that had the pdf on for easier reading12:42
HazRPGMooDoo: ah, that makes sense12:42
diplotop right, download ?12:43
gordsure is hard to get work done when you have a cat begging you to play with it12:44
HazRPGscore12:44
HazRPGgord: work from home too?12:44
gordyup12:44
MooDooi would love to work from home :S12:45
gordit comes with a lot of benefits, but its not as amazing as you might think it is ;)12:45
gordi sometimes go days without seeing another person12:45
MooDoogord: that's ok with me, i'm a loner ;)12:46
MooDoono loner, not loser ;)12:46
gordits okay for me too ;) cats make perfect human replacements12:46
gordalso my stuffed animals12:47
gordand that one wookie on my desk12:47
gordsenior wookie12:47
MooDoogord: as long i have some noise in the background, music or the like i'd be fine :)12:47
oimonhttp://monstersofgrok.com/12:48
HazRPGgord: dude, I work from home... so I know the feeling12:49
HazRPGMooDoo: music works for me too12:49
bigcalmI work from home and long for a cat to keep me company12:55
gordso get a cat?12:55
gordlots of them at your local shelter looking for a good home12:55
bigcalmgord: renting and land lady says no12:55
gordclaim its a plant12:56
MartijnVdSor a vegetable12:57
bigcalmPlus, fiancé(e?) and I like our freedom too much12:57
shaunobonus points if you manage to convince the landlady that she's a vegetable12:57
bigcalmI can never remember if it's with or without the e on the end for a lady12:57
dauberslandlords/ladies love it when you get a cat and then say it's because they refused to deal with the rats12:57
bigcalmHeh12:58
bigcalmI don't think I've seen or heard from our land lady at all this year12:58
bigcalmJust how I like it12:58
MyrttiI've been renting my place since January 2007 and I've not heard of my landlord since he showed me the place before signing the rental agreement12:59
Myrttihm13:00
Myrttisince January 2008 rather13:00
* daubers is still trying to buy a house. Stupid mortgage lenders silly terms13:00
bigcalmWe'd like to buy this house some day. No rush though :)13:01
zleaphi13:01
zleapi am trying to look up how to add my user to www-data so I have write access to /var/www to test my website locally13:01
bigcalmzleap: add your user to the www-data group and then chown the files you want to alter13:02
zleapso useradd -G groupname  username13:03
oimoncats don't have owners13:04
bigcalmzleap: quite possibly. It's been a while since I last did things with groups. Though, once you have updated the groups your user is in, you will need to logout/in or open a new terminal to see the change13:04
bigcalmoimon: they have staff13:04
oimonbigcalm: yep, and often we would "own" cats that were also owned by other neighbours...they saw a neoighbourhood they liked and squatted for a whle13:05
oimonso any query from a  landlady would be answered with "it's a neighbours cat i think. it keeps sneaking in here though"13:06
bigcalmHeh13:06
zleapok thanks13:07
daubersI think I should probably by stock in any cable suppliers in the area when I finally buy my house. The amount of ethernet I'm thinking of running around with poe for sensor type stuff means I should be onto a winner!13:07
bigcalmzleap: you're welcome and good luck :)13:07
bigcalmpower over ethernet?13:08
zleapok according to users and groups I should bea member of www-data13:08
bigcalmI thought it was the other way around13:08
zleapso do i need to change the ownership of /www in /var so i owni t13:09
bigcalmNO13:09
bigcalmOops13:09
bigcalmNo13:09
zleapah hang on  i need to read the permissions again13:10
bigcalmI meant that you will need to "chown :www-data foo.txt" if you create a new file13:10
bigcalm664 for non exec files13:10
bigcalm775 for dirs13:10
zleapok13:11
zleapright now the www directory is owned by root not www-data13:14
bigcalmzleap: what user and group does apache have set in the conf?13:15
zleapnot sure13:15
zleapcd /etc13:15
zleapls -l13:15
bigcalm:D13:16
bigcalmw/w? :P13:16
zleapwhere is the conf file13:16
bigcalmIt's /etc/apache2/apache2.conf13:16
bigcalm# These need to be set in /etc/apache2/envvars13:16
bigcalmUser ${APACHE_RUN_USER}13:16
bigcalmGroup ${APACHE_RUN_GROUP}13:16
bigcalmThat's in the file, so look in /etc/apache2/envvars13:16
zleapso i edit the 2 lines with the above on13:18
bigcalmIt doesn't matter that root owns /var/www, that's just the default setup. You can "chown -R www-data:www-data /var/www/"13:18
bigcalmNo need to edit the apache config at this point, no13:18
zleapok13:18
KrisDouglasHello, is there any reason why ubuntu's graphical performance takes a dive after around 1.5-2 days uptime? My machine starts to respond quite slowly and things like Docky start to scroll as if running on a very old card. (Which my 9600GT isn't)13:18
zleapso i cd to /var13:19
zleapthebn chwon from there13:19
bigcalmzleap: you don't have to. You can use the full path13:19
zleapok13:20
* bigcalm heads off to the shower13:20
zleapok /www is now owned by www-data to which I an a group member13:20
HazRPGhmm my DVD drive is being weird...13:20
HazRPGseems to not want to detect any blank discs o.O13:21
bigcalmzleap: it doesn't matter who owns /var/www, it's a matter of what the group is set to13:21
zleapok13:21
bigcalmSo, /var/www could have iain:www-data13:22
zleapwell i can log in (console) and create a file in there now so I should be able to copy my old site files over13:22
HazRPGdmesg says: brasero[24636]: segfault at 4e5f86a6 ip 00007fe3bb12fd21 sp 00007fff378b0340 error 4 in libgobject-2.0.so.0.2600.1[7fe3bb104000+49000]13:22
HazRPGthat mean anything to anyone?13:22
daubersKrisDouglas: Try watching your memory usage? If the machine starts swapping then I'd imagine something like that13:22
daubershappening13:22
KrisDouglasthe machine has 8GB RAM, swap usage has never gone over 232.0kb (0%)13:23
zleapok thanks13:25
zleaprighti need to get it to parse php properly now i installed the php module13:25
daubersKrisDouglas: Anything on top eating CPU?13:26
KrisDouglasnothing really chewing cpu, no.13:26
KrisDouglasload: 0.65, 0.59, 0.5013:27
daubersKrisDouglas: Something using IO a lot maybe?13:28
KrisDouglastotal disk write while using chromium is peaking at 137K/s, averaging at around 57 K/s13:30
daubersHow full are your disks?13:32
HazRPGstupid cd drive o.O13:33
daubers(are you in the last 15% odd)13:33
KrisDouglasthe most full disk which is primary is at 76%13:34
KrisDouglassorry, 44%13:34
daubersIn that case..... no idea13:34
KrisDouglasWeird isn't it13:34
KrisDouglasThe machine is theoretically healthy13:35
daubersVery odd. Does it go away if you restart X? Or does it still hang around?13:35
daubersOh, and make sure you're getting no I/O errors or anything like that in dmesg13:36
oimonKrisDouglas: which version?13:36
doc__Is it ok to ask a question about scripting/cron here?13:37
oimon$ uptime:  14:36:42 up 40 days, 27 min, 38 users,  load average: 0.44, 0.46, 0.5513:37
oimonmy desktop seems OK, but had chronic probs with firefox eating RAM, now gone13:37
KrisDouglas11.04, oimon13:37
oimon10.04 here. 11.04 does have an interrupts/power bug though13:38
KrisDouglasoimon, I cannot get uptime like that, the performance of my machine becomes unbearable.13:38
KrisDouglasoimon, how do you mean/13:38
KrisDouglas?13:38
oimonhttp://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=ubuntu_natty_power&num=113:38
daubersoimon: That's a kernel issue that anyone using recent kernel versions will suffer (not ubuntu specific)13:39
oimonyes, true (probably)13:40
HazRPGis there a way of figuring out my I can't use my dvd drive anymore?13:40
daubersSomeone found where the issue is....13:40
HazRPGit was working a moment ago (tried to burn something to it)13:40
daubersoimon: http://www.techytalk.info/linux-kernel-2-6-38-2-6-39-power-regression-workaround/ I think13:41
gordi love phoronix, but i wish he would actually post bugs13:41
HazRPGbut brasero just sort of stopping working as it was attempting to burn to it... and then just randomly closed, and now I can't even mount the drive... or do anything with it13:41
gordjust posting findings on a website does not a fixed OS make13:41
doc__touch --date="$adjDate" nextRecordTime..... where $adjDate is a string with a space in it. Running from a terminal is ok but when run from cron everything after the space is ignored... anyone help?13:42
MyrttiMOOMINS \o/13:44
oimonhttps://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/76013113:46
lubotu3Ubuntu bug 760131 in linux (Ubuntu Oneiric) "Power consumption raised significantly in natty" [High,Triaged]13:46
oimonthis problem for me sets in stone the Vista moniker for Natty13:47
MartijnVdSoimon: Ubuntu Vista? :)13:48
zleapok thanks for the help guys,13:50
zleapchat later13:50
ikonia-remoteoimon: that's not a natty issue, it's a kernel issue13:52
oimonthat's still a natty issue. not canonicals fault necessarily, but still13:53
ikonia-remoteoimon: it's any distro using that kernel issue13:53
ikonia-remotegranted it does effect natty, and it's quite shocking this got into production.13:53
oimonit doesn't detract from the fact that natty is canonicals vista, (half baked unity etc)13:54
ikonia-remoteoimon: no it's not13:54
oimoni used to upgrade every 6 months on my office pc, but not since 10.0413:55
BigRedSwhat's in that 'etc.'?13:55
ikonia-remote_damn connection, sorry13:56
HazRPGoimon: I have to agree with you on that one... I use to always update to the beta... but since 10.10, I haven't had the heart to leave 10.1013:56
HazRPGI'm still iffy about oneiric13:56
ikonia-remote_then don't upgrade ?13:56
HazRPGI will have to at some point13:57
ikonia-remote_if the distro doesn't meet your needs or software requirements, don't use it, it's that simple13:57
ikonia-remote_HazRPG: why ? why will you have to13:57
HazRPGoverall, ubuntu is still one of the better distros out there13:57
ikonia-remote_HazRPG: so ? that doesn't mean you have to upgrade13:57
HazRPG10.10 won't be supported forever13:58
oimonyes, although 12.04 will need to be polished13:58
BigRedSwell, it'll get progressively more difficult to maintain a [working|compatible|secure|stable] system without getting something gnome313:58
BigRedSthough, tbh, having unbroken the workspaces model, gnome3's rather nice IME13:59
ikonia-remote_HazRPG: no, although 18 months is a reasonable ammount of time to see where the land lies to see if you wish to continue using ubuntu and upgrade, or change distros13:59
BigRedSchange to what, though?13:59
BigRedSif you want not-gnome-3, you're basically looking at Debian13:59
doc__#channels13:59
BigRedSor perhaps centos13:59
oimonwhat's debian testing using for DE right now?13:59
BigRedSand that's only until their next release13:59
BigRedStestings' Gnome 213:59
ikonia-remote_BigRedS: centos is not using gnome 314:00
BigRedSikonia-remote_: yeah, so until the next release of each, centos, scientific or debian is your best bet14:01
BigRedSthat, or xfce or whatever on whatever distro you like14:01
oimon6 series will get old quickly14:01
daubers\o/ U1 broke the office router14:01
ikonia-remote_BigRedS: why is that ?14:01
BigRedSlike I say, outside of Unity, there's nothing particularly weird about natty14:01
BigRedSso install XFCE on top and pretend it's gnome 214:01
HazRPGI don't mind gnome3 so much, it does break (in my mind) how I feel a desktop should work, its still one of the better ones out there. However unity on the other hand just feels like its trying to be a Mac, but trying to be Windows, Linux and /other/ all at the same time and breaking all rules on HCI consistency14:01
oimonubuntu is a broad distro and we have the option of all the DEs14:01
ikonia-remote_BigRedS: the next release of RHEL will most likley be dropping gnome based on current discussions, or moving to gnome 3 based on the Fedora model at that snapshot in time14:02
BigRedSyeah, obviously. Everyone's going to have dropped gnome 2 by their next stable release14:02
oimonthe next release of RHEL will be in a couple of years time at least14:02
BigRedSHazRPG: what's broken? (out of genuine interest, I'm a week and a bit into a gnome3 experiment and it seems pretty workable to me)14:04
HazRPGthe way I see it, gnome3 is a great improvement (codebase-wise), and I can see lots of lovely features inside of it that I would love using myself... however the only problem is trying to learn/get us to the new workspace way of working14:05
HazRPGwell for example, I like being able to see my applications running on the window list (or taskbar)14:06
BigRedSAh, see I've installed the extensions to give me four static workspaces, so I can use it like gnome2. And someone else here just uses only one workspace, so he uses it like Gnome2...14:06
HazRPGand I like the organised listing of applications in the "applications" menu from gnome214:06
BigRedSah yeah, there's no real panel analog14:06
BigRedSue14:06
HazRPGI love the fact that you can browse for applications in the appmenu, but I don't like how this just replaced the old menu altogether, the search ability should have just been added to it... not completely took over by it14:07
daubersI don't mind the loss of the panels too much. more than anything else I used to fill them with rubbish that was more distracting than anything else14:07
HazRPG(sorry that should have been "I love the fact that you can /search/ for applications")14:08
BigRedSyou've got a nearly-menu there with teh categories down the side14:08
HazRPGdaubers: true, I do the same... however I would still like to be able to see what applications are running at the bottom of my screen, rather than alt+tabbing to see what I have running, or seeing them all on-screen in some sort of weird app mashup14:09
daubersHazRPG: Thats why I prefer unity to shell (a little anyway), can just flip the dock open with the win key14:10
HazRPGBigRedS: ah, see, that's where HCI comes into this... that now makes it 2 clicks to browse for things, and that's just before you even click on an application... and also assuming you know which category your wanting to look through14:10
BigRedSHazRPG: Yeah, but menus are always the slow way to pick something anyway14:11
BigRedSI am amused that things appear to *still* be restricted to only being in one category14:11
HazRPGheh, true14:11
BigRedSso internet-enabled office apps just need to pick one, hence thunderbird being an internet app and evolution being an office one14:11
HazRPGthe only reason to be able to see things in a menu, is because some applications might not be used often... and one forgets sometimes what he actually has installed14:12
BigRedSyeah, in which case this categories thing in that pane is a good substitute14:12
HazRPGtrue14:12
BigRedS"I installed that wicked cool video editing thing, what was it again.." sorts of things14:12
HazRPGlike I said gnome3 is good in that sense14:12
HazRPGits just the window-list/taskbar that's going to be hard to get out of the habit of14:13
BigRedSah, I've not used a taskbar in years14:13
ikonia-remoteHazRPG: who knows that may change as it evolves and matures14:13
BigRedSI'm ideally suited for The Modern Desktop TM :)14:13
ikonia-remoteHazRPG: one of the gnome developers wrote an interesting article on changing things for the sake of trying to be different, it it doesn't work or is not what people need to do their day, there are options14:14
HazRPGheh, I usually have about 15 applications running at any one time... alt-tabbing between all of that is not sexy ^_^14:14
ikonia-remoteHazRPG: I also find that quite frustrating14:14
BigRedSHazRPG: Ah, you need to do less work, then :)14:14
HazRPGheh14:15
HazRPGsome things get left on the back-burner sorta speak... I'll open something up, get it running, something job intensive... and leave it be... you can't close it till its done for example... so you continue with something else... and by the end of it... you find you have too much stuff open14:16
HazRPGand you think "right I had that open first, that should be done by now" and go to it14:16
HazRPGif you can't see it... its hard to find it14:16
BigRedSah yeah14:16
BigRedSI do that with shells all the time14:16
HazRPGand if its minimised, its even worse, because you just get an application icon instead of a preview... so your not sure if it's the right one until you tab to it14:16
HazRPGexactly, see you get what I mean then ^_^14:17
HazRPGif it wasn't for stuff like that, then I'd be all for the whole "woo gnome3!"14:17
HazRPGrewind time to when I use to have say maybe 2-3 apps running, gnome3 would have been great14:17
HazRPG(I still think it would be great - just not realistic :P)14:18
ikonia-remotealt-tabbing for application selection isn't reall usable with 2 apps for me14:19
HazRPGe.g. I have natty on my laptop, because I'll probably only have a browser running - or maybe a game or film on :P14:19
ikonia-remoteI want to be able to select what I want14:19
ikonia-remoterather than cycle through14:19
HazRPGikonia-remote: it gets worse, I have 2 screens :P14:19
HazRPGyour not sure which screen your going to be alt-tabbing to14:19
ikonia-remoteI've not run it dual head I'm assuming the tabbing depends on the screen your on14:19
HazRPGnope14:20
* freakyclown returns14:20
HazRPGalt+tabbing (even in gnome3 - tried liveCD) just mashes everything off that workspace14:20
HazRPGand since gnome3 will show you several workspaces in the alt+tab, it can be a nightmare14:20
MartijnVdSyeah but multi-screen is a power user feature14:21
ikonia-remoteHazRPG: so it only sees the applications for the workspace (screen) your on14:21
HazRPGfreakyclown: wb ^_^14:21
MartijnVdSand Unity isn't made for power users!14:21
BigRedSunity isn't made for *any* users! ;)14:21
HazRPGikonia-remote: close, each workspace still contains 2 screens14:21
ikonia-remoteHazRPG: ok, I see what you mean now14:21
ikonia-remoteworkspace and screen are two things that make it a tricky conversation to have14:22
HazRPGMartijnVdS: Indeed!14:22
HazRPGikonia-remote: true14:22
HazRPGmaybe I just need to triple-boot my system, and actually play with gnome3 properly with my development stuff and see if it can actually live with it or not (rather than just basing it on what I've seen on my laptop)14:23
ikonia-remoteI wonder if part of the reason the windows desktop layout with a task bar that so many other desktops have copied has been like that for so long...because it works14:23
BigRedSHazRPG: it's worth doing.14:24
BigRedSI disliked it until I actually spent a few days using it14:24
BigRedSthough you might never get over the taskbar thing14:24
BigRedSunless there's a shell extension to fix that14:24
HazRPGikonia-remote: imitation is a form of flattery, or so they say14:24
bigcalm"Here are A and B" or "Here is A and B"? If it was just A or B on their own, then I would use "is". But I often fall over on this one14:25
HazRPGBigRedS: I think there is a shell extension for it... but I'm not sure14:25
HazRPGBigRedS: also, I do use and like gnome3, just don't think I could use it for my regular worky-day-to-day stuff14:25
BigRedSHazRPG: yeah, that's *exactly* what I thought until I installed it on my work PC :)14:25
ikonia-remoteHazRPG: I just wonder if people haven't changed from it because at this moment in time, it's the best working option for the majortiy of users14:26
HazRPGBigRedS: I can't get use to unity however, not in the slightest - already hard enough trying to support my sister who uses natty14:27
HazRPGikonia-remote: I would have to agree with that, I believe this is the case for most14:27
daubersHazRPG: I found slipping into Unity relativley easy. That might be because I regularly flip between Win/Lin/OSX for work14:28
HazRPGikonia-remote: gotta remember, some do already work in the Unity style of working if they've used Mac's... however Unity != Mac, its just similar in places14:28
ikonia-remoteHazRPG: then I start to understand what the gnome blog about changing for the sake of trying to be different is about14:28
daubersHazRPG: I found it harder working with shell than with unity14:28
HazRPGdaubers: if your constantly using different things, then I can see how the change was easy :P14:28
HazRPGdaubers: tried dragging something to the unity bar yet though ;)?14:29
BigRedSI found Unity easier to work with concept-wise than Gnome, but Gnome's way less buggy and only needs one extension to make workspaces work14:29
DJonesdaubers: How did your month using Windows go? Did you manage to last the month out14:29
daubersHazRPG: I did try and eject something by dragging it onto the bar :) Then realised that a) it was the wrong machine and b) it doesn't work like that :p14:29
daubersDJones: No :(14:29
DJonesdaubers: Heh14:30
AlanBellI wrote a unity lens which makes it quite bearable14:30
daubersDJones: Found that it slowed me down quite considerably, and I didn't really have time to be slow14:30
HazRPGdaubers: may I point to this: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/82605914:30
lubotu3Ubuntu bug 826059 in unity (Ubuntu) "unity gets stuck in 'expose' mode when you drag an icon over a launcher icon and hold it there" [Low,Fix released]14:30
HazRPGits fixed now in 11.1014:30
HazRPGbut 11.04 still has it, cos its not backported yet14:30
daubersHazRPG: I prefer the way it works in 11.10, with the dash thing as an icon14:31
HazRPG(my sister lost files a few times due to that bug)14:31
daubersHazRPG: in fact, the biggest Ubuntu change that still annoys the hell out of me (when i forget) is the loss of aptitude in the default install14:31
daubersGets me once, then I install it14:31
HazRPG:o!?14:32
HazRPGoh, you mean everything gets pushed through the software centre?14:32
HazRPGor you can't actually do "apt-get ..."14:32
daubersHazRPG: No, the command line tool "aptitude". Always used it instead of "apt-get" as it had a bit more power in it14:32
HazRPGdaubers: ah14:33
HazRPGsee, apt-get does the trick for me :)14:33
daubersAnd you can still do apt-get :) Just muscle memory makes me do otherwise14:33
daubersDid consider making a bash alias for aptitude to apt-get but imagine that may break lots of things14:33
HazRPGhmm, so is aptitude the "dpgk" stuff, or am I completely overshooting it now?14:34
HazRPGignore me... just did man aptitude14:34
daubersHazRPG: Heh, it's just another dpkg front end like apt-get14:34
HazRPGI see what you mean by more power14:34
BigRedSdaubers: I thought it was synaptic rather than aptitude?14:34
BigRedSmaybe my common-sense filter did that to ease the dumfoundedness14:35
HazRPGBigRedS: Synaptic is the GUI version of aptitude :)14:35
BigRedSyeah14:35
BigRedSsynaptic's arguably been replaced by the software centre14:35
BigRedSfor years now people keep intimating that aptitude is replacing apt-get14:35
BigRedSso it makes no sense to get rid of aptitude14:35
HazRPGoh, aptitude is a cli-gui thing14:36
HazRPGnice14:36
daubersHazRPG: Also does lots from the cli without the gui14:36
HazRPGBigRedS: I can see this being useful for sysadmins!14:37
BigRedSaptitude is either a cli command or a curses app, depending upon how you invoke it14:37
HazRPGdaubers: yeah, was reading the man pages14:37
daubersyup14:37
daubersHazRPG: I do, however, understand the argument for getting rid of aptitude, as the people who use it are very much in the minority and CD space is at a premium.14:37
gordif i can't have vim on the cd, other nerds can't have aptitude dang it >:(14:38
daubersOne day I'll make some magic ldappy thing which will keep a list of packages in an ldap database and install them when the system is bound14:38
BigRedShaha14:38
BigRedSI'd much rather have vim out of the box than aptitude14:38
HazRPGheh, well thing is, if you're an aptitude user, your more like going to be able to install it... then those who don't even know what it is :P14:38
daubersBigRedS: I'd rather have aptitude :) Vi is good enough14:38
BigRedSIt's great until I forget it's only vim and try to use arrow keys...14:39
HazRPGam I the only one that uses nano?14:39
BigRedSI only ever use aptitude to tidy up after I've done something silly to apt. If I used aptitude allthe time I've no idea how I'd fix it14:39
BigRedSer, s/only vim/only vi/14:39
daubersHazRPG: I'm just starting to understand how the app indicators work. Have to admit, those are pretty nifty when writing stuff for me to use at home14:39
gordi looooove ending up with :wq at the bottom of my fstab file after every new install >:(14:39
BigRedShaha14:40
HazRPGCTRL+X Y for me :)14:40
* daubers is having fun writing stuff to work on osx and 'buntu these days14:40
dauberstry importing libindicator, if it fails use growl and so on14:41
HazRPGI'm having fun writing stuff for bash in general recently :)14:41
daubersAh, bash has an onomatopoeicly  correct name14:41
bigcalmOo, hi popey14:43
ipopeyPip pip14:43
ipopeyHow's tricks?14:43
daubersonce my new sensors arrive from china, I want to make a unity icon thing that shows the relative level of different gases in my living room using the progress bar thing14:44
bigcalmThe sun is out, so all is well14:44
dauberspopey: Trickey14:44
KrisDouglasdaubers, how's that project coming along?14:44
daubersKrisDouglas: The sensors stuff?14:44
KrisDouglasYeah14:44
daubersGood :) Got mqtt working how I want it to now. Just need the components and then need to write some little apps14:45
daubersUbuntu/OSX/Android are the targets14:45
ipopeyI have my feet in sand :)14:45
bigcalmipopey: kids want to bury you yet?14:45
ipopeyYes14:46
bigcalm:D14:46
bigcalm!ping14:46
lubotu3another contentless ping... sigh...14:46
bigcalmHumm14:46
bigcalmWeb and spotify have stopped working for me, but irc continues14:47
* bigcalm thinks DNS is down14:47
* daubers will enjoy the fact that by the end of next week (hopefully) he'll be able to measure the relative amount of alochol in the air in his living room14:48
bigcalmdaubers: on a ppm scale?14:48
daubersbigcalm: On a relative ppm scale. No idea how I'd actually calibrate it to make it an actual scale14:53
ikonia-remoteI managed to watch Dr Who last night15:06
ikonia-remotewhat a massive dissapointment it has turned into after the First 2 series, it now appears to just be a series of random and more random events happening15:07
ubuntuuk-planet[Alistair McKinlay] Paper: a dying relic, or here for a long time to come? - http://www.10people.co.uk/index.php/2011/09/paper-a-dying-relic/15:07
daubersikonia-remote: They seem to be going through finishing off unfinished story lines15:07
daubersikonia-remote: i.e. at the moment their finishing off the "River Sung" storyline15:08
ikonia-remotedaubers: but it's just random nonsense15:08
ikonia-remotethere appears to be no story, just events happening that are linked15:08
ikonia-remoteit's not really a story15:08
ikonia-remotethere is no individual episode plot and the big picture story is just random15:08
daubersikonia-remote: Surely that is the definition of a plot? "Events happening that are linked to a specific storyline", the storyline at the minute being related to the Silence15:09
ikonia-remotedaubers: that's not what I meant15:09
daubersikonia-remote: However, a lot of the recent stuff has been unremarkable. But there have been some really remarkable episodes15:10
ikonia-remotedaubers: I've not seen anything worth watching for years on it15:10
daubersikonia-remote: I did like the random "Meet the TARDIS" episode. Thought that was ace15:10
ikonia-remotethe stories seem to get weaker and weaker and more random and random15:10
ikonia-remotedaubers: that was a self contained story and seemed to work better than the drawn out dribble15:11
daubersikonia-remote: I'm not too sure tbh. It seems they've spent most of this series tying up the loose ends from the previous ones.15:11
ikonia-remotedaubers: they are just writing nonsense to try to make sense of the stories they had no idea what to do with15:12
ikonia-remoteit seems they have massivly run out of plot the writers......are not good in my view (I know I'm in the minority) it's just got weaker since the first 2 series15:13
daubersikonia-remote: I'd agree with quite a few episodes. However I think the ones that really stood out (mainly the tardis one, and the 2 parter with the angels) do somewhat keep me interested15:14
ikonia-remoteI feel bad as each series is more and more dissapointing15:15
daubersikonia-remote: I also thought the last christmas special was the best bit of Who I'd seen for a while15:15
ikonia-remotedaubers: the one with the opera singer15:15
ikonia-remote?15:15
ikonia-remote(I lose track)15:15
ikonia-remoteCatherin Jenkins is it15:15
ikonia-remotethat one ?15:15
daubersikonia-remote: The Christmas Carol one15:15
ikonia-remoteI've rarley seen anything as bad as that one15:16
ikonia-remoteI genuinly thought that one of the weakest I'd seen15:16
daubersI really enjoyed that one. I thought it was put together quite well, with the whole "Time can be changed" thing they've had going15:16
ikonia-remotedaubers: shoe horning in Catherine Jenkins to sing and floating wales.....sorry, no15:17
ikonia-remote(I can't remember if that's her correct name, so apologies if I'm wrong on her name)15:17
daubersShe didn't seem shoe horned in. It did seem that whatser face and rory where shoe horned in a bit at times. The floating fish where also quite central to the plot15:18
ikonia-remotedaubers: they where all shoe horned in15:18
ikonia-remoteit was a terrible story15:18
daubersI thoroughly enjoyed it15:18
ikonia-remote(I really didn't like it in case you hadn't guessed)15:18
daubers( I gathered)15:19
daubersikonia-remote: Having rewatched the first episode of the first new series, I do think that generally it is better. But I think there are less exceptional episodes than a couple of the previous series. I'm also glad that they're not bringing in the Daleks again for a bit15:20
daubersThey're not as scary as they used to be15:20
ikonia-remotedaubers: I thought they brought the daleks back quite well15:20
ikonia-remotethe first season introduction was good15:20
ikonia-remoteI think they realised quickly they had made a massive mistake by declaring that a.) the timelords where all dead b.) the daleks where all dead15:21
daubersikonia-remote: Problem was, that they've relied on them too much and they've been over used. Generally surprised they don't just go "Oh, its the doctor, time to go home"15:21
ikonia-remoteI'm still waiting for them to bring back the Rahni, a good character waiting to be brought back15:21
ikonia-remotedaubers: the first 7 series of the original Dr Who didn't realise that.....15:22
bigcalm[revo]Grrr VM15:22
daubersikonia-remote: Maybe not, but you can only bring back a single baddy in a single guise so many times before it gets old15:22
bigcalm[revo]Less than and more than are being weird too. They give me Z and X respectively15:23
ikonia-remotedaubers: I wonder how much of me is a little biased due to the changes they have made from the original series "universe" eg: the cybermen are now humans in shells who "delete" rather than a clever alien race15:23
bigcalm[revo]And shift + 2 is giving @15:23
bigcalm[revo]@ is giving me q15:23
bigcalm[revo]What the heck?15:23
ikonia-remotebigcalm[revo]: USA keyboard layout15:23
suprengrdalek: oh booga it's The Doctor time to go upsatars, hide in the cupboard & forget our entire ethos!15:24
* bigcalm[revo] pokes synergy15:24
bigcalm[revo]><15:24
bigcalm[revo]That's better :)15:24
bigcalm[revo]Restarting synergy on client and server fixed it15:24
bigcalm[revo]All I wanted to write was: I </3 VM15:25
suprengr- or didn't anyone see the lone dalek hybrid eposide15:26
suprengr*stairs btw15:26
ikonia-remotesuprengr: the one that was a man with an alien head ?15:26
daubersikonia-remote: Maybe, that and people always remember things as better than they where originally (nostalgia and all that)15:27
ikonia-remotedaubers: not %100 true, I watched the Sylvester McCoy story "destruction of the daleks" the other day, the effects where weak, but the plot wipes the floor with the new stuff15:28
ikonia-remotedaubers: but I'm sure at least %70 true15:29
directhexcan we agree colin baker sucks?15:32
oimon+ SM + DT15:32
ikonia-remote_directhex: although I enjoy his childish tantrum and refusal to do the rejeneration clips15:33
ikonia-remote_and the fact that he's super bitter about it to this day15:33
ikonia-remotethis connection is getting very annoying15:35
daubersikonia-remote: The one thing that I always enjoy where the effects are pants, but the stories are amazing is the original series of the twilight zone15:36
daubersHowever, taken out of it's time period, they've all become cliches15:37
ikonia-remotedaubers: totally, it's quite hard to keep in context with a 20 year time period15:38
ikonia-remoteneed to disconnect for a while15:38
bigcalm[revo]I fear I might hurt somebody/thing at VM soon15:53
bigcalm[revo]Please leave my connection connected15:53
=== bigcalm[revo] is now known as bigcalm
MooDoonot having fun bigcalm ?16:19
gordstill need to figure out how to take my revo apart :(16:19
gordjust not happening16:19
bigcalmgord: there is 1 screw to undo in the side, it's under a sticky label16:20
bigcalmMooDoo: When one has a job that wouldn't exist without the internet, it gets difficult to do when said internet goes away16:21
MooDoobigcalm: yeah i know that one :S16:21
gordbigcalm, so there is!16:23
bigcalmgord: when I bought my revo from play.com, I went for the 2gb option. They sent me the device with the extra ram as a stick to insert myself16:24
bigcalmSo, voided the warranty on day one :)16:25
gordbigcalm, still can't get the damn thing open :(16:25
bigcalmgord: have a look on youtube. I think that's what I did16:25
bigcalmIf I wanted to take it apart now, I'd have to look up how to do it again :)16:26
* daubers hands gord the +1 hammer of smashing16:26
gorddaubers, should be noted that i want to fix it not make it in to thousands of tiny pieces16:27
gordgot the blasted thing open, thank you kindly bigcalm :)16:30
bigcalmgord: yay :)16:30
gordwoo time to order some new memory16:37
daubersgord: I meant to do that the other day, but I forgot16:37
gordgeez, the revo comes with 2gb ram16:39
gordthats crazy16:39
gordoh wait no, i guess some people might use it for more than just xbmc.... crazy people.16:39
bigcalmI use mine as a web dev server16:39
bigcalmThough I did buy it to run with boxee and sit under the telly16:40
Antonio007can you  help with  ndiswrapper compilation?16:43
HazRPGanyone having issues with screensavers in natty?16:49
HazRPGmy sister is reporting that when the screensaver goes on... and she returns to the system, the system has locked up16:50
HazRPGit just happened now... and so I had to forcefully log her out16:50
HazRPGusing "sudo pkill -KILL -u user"16:50
HazRPGseems the screensaver just locks up and refuses to let the login box show up16:51
HazRPGNot sure if this is reproducible or not.16:51
HazRPGah, bug 76291816:53
lubotu3Launchpad bug 762918 in xf86-video-intel "Natty Screensaver freezes system after some period of inactivity" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/76291816:53
HazRPGwell its Eid... so I suppose I should ring my mum and wish her a happy Eid :)16:56
MartijnVdSoh is that today?17:01
* MartijnVdS prepares for a night of partying neighbors17:04
* AlanBell pokes Londonish people with -> http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/1257/detail/17:42
czajkowskidone17:44
czajkowskialanbell gatwick -> shannon via Aer Lingus is now stopped  as of end of the month17:47
AlanBellyes17:54
czajkowskishame17:54
czajkowskistaff dont know why it's been pulled17:54
AlanBellryanair or Heathrow17:54
AlanBellnot profitable17:54
czajkowskiit's a busy enough flight17:54
AlanBellflights for 50p17:54
czajkowskiNO Ryanair means I've to check in a bag as carry on for 10 days is not really possible with their weights17:55
czajkowskialso heathrow! EWWWWWW17:55
AlanBellor leave clothes at both ends17:55
czajkowskiAlanBell: only via stanstead17:58
Azelphurwas up at 7am last night, some guy pm'd me in WoW telling me to go to his phishing website to get a free mount, so I did...with urllib and 20 threads :D18:00
Azelphurit went 404 after I'd sent it 10,000 form submissions, hahaha18:00
=== OmNomDePlume is now known as SanityX
=== MichealH is now known as ecks
=== MichealH is now known as nothere
=== nothere is now known as MH0
HazRPGjust gotta say boys and girls... "Everyday I'm shufflin'!!"18:19
HazRPGand for the uninitiated: http://youtu.be/KQ6zr6kCPj8?t=1m37s18:20
ali1234HazRPG: which is a reference to this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JU9TouRnO8418:25
ali1234or possible this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kLDitGAUrno18:26
ali1234gotta wonder where the sample comes from18:27
HazRPGheh, yeah it will be a reference to those :)18:28
HazRPGnot many people will get that though18:28
=== SanityX is now known as OmNomSequitur
AlanBellhttp://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/happyhour.pdf how does that look?18:50
swat__evening all18:55
swat__does anyone have a problem with google chrome in ubuntu being really laggy?18:55
DJonesswat__: Nope, no problems for me, if anything its the fastest browser I use18:57
MartijnVdSgoogle's servers make apt-get update slow for me19:02
nucc1guys, where do I lay my hands on the 11.10 beta isos?20:06
nucc1ah, seen20:07
ubuntuuk-planet[Jono Bacon] Loco Team Portal Gets Blogging Support - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/09/01/loco-team-portal-gets-blogging-support/20:07
AlanBellbeta isos are on http://releases.ubuntu.com for anyone who wants to have a play20:47
AlanBellI am putting it on a USB at the moment to try an eyes-free install with the screenreader20:48
=== MH0 is now known as MichealH
bigcalmAlanBell: screen turned off or blindfolded?20:50
AlanBellscreen off20:50
AlanBellwill see if it boots with the screen unplugged, it used not to20:50
bigcalmCan't you just turn the monitor off but leave it plugged in?20:51
AlanBellyes20:54
AlanBellfirst time I tried I didn't bother to plug in a monitor and the boot process hangs20:54
* AlanBell grumbles about the continuing embarrassing lack of a beep20:58
AlanBellBug #18056121:00
lubotu3Launchpad bug 180561 in gfxboot-theme-ubuntu (Ubuntu) "The liveCD should beep when the boot prompt shows out" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/18056121:00
ali1234AlanBell: that's the isolinux prompt?21:11
ali1234just add some assembler code to poke the pc speaker21:12
ali1234that's what i'd do anyway21:12
ali1234no maintainer will accept the patch but who cares?21:12
ali1234i can't believe all the debian developers combined failed to make a boot menu that beeps21:13
Laneycolin watson is all the debian developers combined?21:15
bigcalmcat /dev/random > /dev/dsp21:15
ali1234Laney: only if he's using the royal we21:16
AlanBellit is gfxboot21:17
AlanBelllooking through the source now21:17
* Laney is confused21:17
Laneynobody did the work, therefore it isn't that21:17
Laneythere*21:17
Laneythat's how it goes21:17
ali1234Laney: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gfxboot-theme-ubuntu/+bug/537879/comments/121:17
lubotu3Ubuntu bug 180561 in gfxboot-theme-ubuntu (Ubuntu) "duplicate for #537879 The liveCD should beep when the boot prompt shows out" [Wishlist,New]21:17
AlanBellso gfxboot is a suse thing http://www.vitki.net/static/docs/gfxboot.html#f_012621:18
AlanBellthere are indications it can make sounds happen21:18
ali1234AlanBell: don't play that game21:18
ali1234that's why they failed21:18
Laneyi don't understand why you think that 'we' is all of the debian developers21:18
Laneysome unknown amount of people tried, but in the end nobody cared enough to make it work21:19
AlanBellyet.21:19
ali1234gfxboot is not the right place to make the patch21:19
ali1234make it in isolinux21:19
AlanBellok21:19
ali1234and don't try to do any sound files21:19
ali1234just bang the ioport directly21:20
ali1234it does not get any simpler than that21:20
AlanBellyeah, don't care what it sounds like, just needs a beep21:20
Laneyif you have all the answers, why not fix it?21:20
ali1234it will be 1 line21:20
ali1234Laney: you have all the answer now too, since i just gave them to you21:20
ali1234so why don't *you* fix it, since i'm already busy fixing someone else's bad code21:20
Laneyapparently you still don't understand how this works21:21
AlanBellhmm, what package is isolinux in then?21:21
Laneypeople fix things they care about21:21
* AlanBell cares about it21:21
ali1234AlanBell: syslinux21:21
ali1234probably21:21
AlanBellah, right#21:21
ali1234the hardest part of fixing this will be testing it, since you'll need a real machine most likely21:22
ali1234and have to keep reseting it21:22
ali1234and of course it won't work on arm. only x8621:23
ali1234you could make the patch in core/console.c in myputs21:24
ali1234it will then beep whenever it prints a character21:24
ali1234which might be quite a lot21:25
AlanBellso why isn't gfxboot the right place to fix it?21:25
ali1234cos gfxboot isn;t what is actually running at boot time21:25
AlanBellwell it is what displays the symbol21:26
ali1234gfxboot is a program that generates graphics which are then loaded by isolinux, or grub, or whatever21:26
ali1234the actual gfxboot code is not running at boot time21:26
AlanBelloooh21:26
AlanBellok, so gfxboot compiles the postscript stuff down to a bytecode that isolinux interprets21:28
ali1234there is probably some patch to isolinux to add gfxboot support too21:29
ali1234look in syslinux/com32/gfxboot21:30
ali1234there it is21:31
AlanBellhttp://ftp.halifax.rwth-aachen.de/opensuse/distribution/11.3/repo/oss/boot/x86_64/loader/hapysuse.mod the opensuse bootloader plays that under some21:34
AlanBellsituations21:34
AlanBelland fsfsong.wav in some other situation21:38
AlanBellthe isolinux patch would probably be a bit simpler, but I don't think it would be accepted21:38
ali1234yeah this is always the problem21:39
ali1234"we won't accept your patch unless you implement it the way we want you to, the way we already tried and failed because it is way too complicated"21:39
ali1234but at least then they won't be able to use the "it's too hard" excuse21:40
AlanBell will in this situation I can see the logic of playing the sound file when you display the image that it goes with21:41
ali1234yes21:41
ali1234all you have to do is fix it21:41
ali1234but since it is bootloader code21:42
ali1234it will be a nightmare21:42
AlanBellor do it properly21:42
ali1234but then this is what happens when you abuse the bootloader to do more than it is supposed to do21:42
ali1234there isn't really a reason for any of this stuff to be on bootloader menus21:43
AlanBellyeah, but there it is and it is embarrassingly thoughtless21:44
nucc1guys, i'm running gnome-shell on 11.10 beta, and i can't see any window menus, what should i do?21:44
AlanBellnucc1: probably disable the global menu21:44
ali1234yes21:44
nucc1how do i do that?21:44
AlanBellor wait for it to crash21:44
nucc1lol21:45
ali1234i don't know how you disable it on 11.1021:45
nucc1how could one disable it in 11.04?21:45
ali1234i dont know that either21:45
ali1234i tried to disable it, but it wouldn't die21:45
nucc1hmmm.21:45
ali1234sometimes it goes away, sometimes it doesn't21:45
ali1234sometimes i just get a gap21:45
ali1234even though that bug has supposedly been fixed21:45
ali1234it was only fixed for firefox21:45
ali1234gotta love intrusive OS changes that require every single application ever made to be patched21:46
nucc1:(21:46
ali1234especially when there's only one guy assigned to patching them21:46
nucc1this basically means i'm still stuck with fedora :(21:47
AlanBellnucc1: not sure, but if you ask how to do that in #ubuntu+1 I expect someone will know21:47
ali1234or any of the other distros that hasn't gone insane21:47
AlanBellit used to be something like removing gnome2-globalmenu but it won't be that now21:47
AlanBellgnome3-globalmenu maybe21:47
ali1234you have to set an environment variable as well21:48
ali1234try searching on askubuntu21:48
ali1234it gets asked there about 17 times a day21:48
nucc1there's no gnome3-globalmenu21:48
nucc1there are firefox, thunderbird globalmenus21:49
ali1234anyway, what's wrong with fedora? if you want gnome-shell you will be better off, since they are basically the only distro supporting it21:50
AlanBellhttp://reallifemonopoly.eventbrite.com/21:52
nucc1ali1234, AlanBell solved. i had to log out, choose "gnome" as the session and log back in.21:57
nucc1works quite nicely, and i love the fancy scrollbars :)21:57
nucc1speaking of which, the one inside the xchat window isn't working for the message list21:58
nucc1:p21:58
nucc1the beta seems quite stable21:58
* AlanBell installs opensuse to a usb stick21:59
* TheOpenSourcerer is doing a rather large dist-upgrade to Magrat... Last time 11.10 from about a week ago.22:00
AlanBellhopefully I can prove that the bootloader can make a sound as defined in the gfxboot configuration22:00
ubuntuuk-planet[Matthew Garrett] The Android/GPL situation - http://mjg59.livejournal.com/138615.html22:07
AlanBelloh my word22:23
AlanBelloh, so gfxboot can play .mod files *very* badly through the PC speaker22:24
AlanBellit doesn't play the .wav because suse is broken and didn't include the fsfsong.wav file that it trys to call22:25
AlanBellI expect thats why cjwatson failed, wrong path or wrong sound file format silently failing and reporting no errors22:26
zleaphi22:38
zleapany star trek fans here ?22:41
dwatkinszleap: yeah23:04
zleapcool23:12
zleapyou seen star trek : new voyages23:12
zleaphttp://www.startreknewvoyages.com/23:13
zleapdwatkins,23:17
dwatkinsI have not *clicks*23:23
zleapok23:24
zleapfan made episodes to carry onwhere the original series left off23:24
dwatkinsaha I suspected as much23:24
dwatkinsI hear there's going to be a new series set after Voyager23:24
zleaphowever they have support from paramount23:24
zleapcool23:24
zleapand someof the actors from the TOS make appearances23:25
dwatkinsI like the idea of a new series, but I gather it will ignore the new 'reboot' film.23:25
zleapreboot film is that the star trek movie23:25
dwatkinsthe new one, I mean23:25
zleapso star trek 1123:26
dwatkinsyes23:26
zleapok23:27
zleapthanks didn't even know about that one23:27
zleapanyway worth checking out this new series23:27
dwatkinsPersonally I think it's an excellent film, 11.23:27
zleapall free to download etc23:27
zleapany links23:28
dwatkinswhat to?23:28
zleapreboot23:28
dwatkinshttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Trek_(film)23:29
zleapoh thats the new star trek movie23:30
zleapthe one released a few years ago23:30
zleapsorry didn't really follow what you meant,  yeah accordingto that they are contracted for more movies23:30
dwatkinsyeah, I was just reading that23:30
dwatkinsexcellent news :)23:30
zleapyep23:31
dwatkinsIt's a little ambiguous what they plan to do about the timelines, what with this new series, but if you'll excuse the pun, time will tell.23:31
zleapits nice that paramount are also supporting these fan episodes23:31
zleaplol23:31
dwatkinsyeah23:31
zleapas in allowing them to do it,  they even have a few of the original writers involved23:31
zleapeven better its actually illigal to sell them, so they remain free23:32
dwatkinsI saw there were donate buttons to help out with the production costs, which is a good way to do it23:32
zleapyeah23:32
zleapi have downloaded a few23:32
dwatkinsWe will be watching this shortly, thanks zleap :)23:34
zleapnp23:35
zleaplets hope star trek lives long and prospers23:35
zleapto paraphrase spock i guess23:35
gorddwatkins, its a new timeline, all the events of the old timeline still played out and impact events in the new timeline, but its new and seperate23:41
gord</dork>23:41
dwatkinsgord: so we have both existing in tandem, like the mirror universes?23:42
gorddwatkins, no not in tandem, you can't travel from one to the other or anything like that, the events in the new timeline happen *after* the events in TOS for example, because all those things had to have happened for spock to go back in time to create the new timeline23:43
dwatkinsoh I see, gord - I thought they might keep the two timelines for use in different films/series in future (although originally I thought they would just use the 'new' timeline set forth in the eleventh film.23:58
dwatkins)23:58

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