[00:05] <The_Fred> yes, thats true as far as media players and the such goes, but its lacking in terms of extensibility
[04:02] <HazRPG> time to update to flash 11b2 64-bit... see if its getting any better than the previous beta versions (how did it go from 10 to 11 without having a 10th release??)
[04:10] <HazRPG> interesting, it still gets listed as "11.0.d1" inside of chrome's task manager
[04:11] <HazRPG> also saddens me that it still runs using up 154M of Private Memory :/
[04:11] <HazRPG> fullscreen still broke on dual-head systems too
[04:11] <HazRPG> *sigh*
[04:11] <HazRPG> I think I'm expecting too much with this...
[05:28] <MartijnVdS> \o/ closed-source software :P
[05:51] <HazRPG> lol
[05:51] <HazRPG> indeed
[05:54] <HazRPG> am I missing something... http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/oneiric/beta-1/
[05:55] <HazRPG> what happened to "-alternate-amd64"
[05:55] <HazRPG> for those without a mac...
[05:55] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: try http://releases.ubuntu.com/oneiric/
[05:55] <MartijnVdS> (or <countrycode>.releases.ubuntu.com)
[05:56] <HazRPG> o.O cos that's not confusing at all
[05:56] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: all releases are on releases.ubuntu.com -- cdimage contains dailies and uncommon stuff
[05:56] <HazRPG> ha
[05:56] <HazRPG> ah*
[05:57] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: thanks :)
[05:58] <HazRPG> I always hit cdimage.* in the past (in fact the main ubuntu page points you to cdimage.*)
[05:58] <MartijnVdS> it does?
[05:59] <MartijnVdS> does anyone else have problems playing Flash sound + "other" sound on oneiric?
[05:59] <MartijnVdS> because I have..
[05:59] <shauno> MartijnVdS: #ubuntu+1  :p
[05:59] <MartijnVdS> shauno: meh, maybe someone knew :)
[06:02] <shauno> trying to be funny :)  it's a bit hit & miss at 7am :/
[06:02] <MartijnVdS> I'm trying a purge & reinstall atm :)
[06:03] <shauno> (and ubuntu.com seems to send me to the right place for images.  google, however, rates cdimage.u.c pretty highly)
[06:04] <HazRPG> could have been google where I got it from... I forget... its that time of morning
[06:04] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: MOAR CAFFEINES
[06:04] <HazRPG> also, I think I'm too much of a data-horde... I've just set off a dl of 4 different images of the same thing
[06:04] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: I has Mountain Dew ;D
[06:05] <shauno> silly wow-addicts.  *hoard.
[06:05] <HazRPG> shauno: says you... I haven't played in since Dec ^_^
[06:06] <shauno> but I still speak english :)
[06:06] <HazRPG> <== I speak holycowitsmorning :)
[06:07] <HazRPG> besides, as the ol' say goes... pebkac :)
[06:07] <shauno> homophones.  how do they work.
[06:08] <HazRPG> shauno: ex-squeeze me?!
[06:08] <HazRPG> words with different sounds?
[06:09] <HazRPG> or rather spelling != sound
[06:09] <shauno> quite the opposite.
[06:09] <HazRPG> or something like that
[06:09] <HazRPG> spelling =~ sound sorry
[06:11] <HazRPG> anyone else noticed the new ubuntu-variant "Dream Studio"?
[06:13] <HazRPG> bah, I should really root my darn phone
[06:13] <HazRPG> stupid <20MB free annoyances :/
[06:14] <MartijnVdS> ?
[06:14] <MartijnVdS> ah
[06:14] <MartijnVdS> uninstall some unused apps :)
[06:14] <HazRPG> I wish I had apps that were unused to remove
[06:14] <MartijnVdS> I've _never_ had space problems on my phone -- but I remove everything I don't use >1 week
[06:14] <HazRPG> main offenders are however facebook and google+ for the simple fact that they use up ~15MB each and can't be moved to SD
[06:16]  * MartijnVdS has facebook is only 7 here
[06:16] <HazRPG> hmm...
[06:16] <MartijnVdS> also, I have ~50MB free out of ~196
[06:17] <shauno> are you guys stuffing them to the brim with music? or … 196?  MB?
[06:17] <MartijnVdS> shauno: Music is always on the SD
[06:18] <MartijnVdS> shauno: 196MB, yes
[06:18] <MartijnVdS> \o/ N1
[06:19] <MartijnVdS> (190 MB application storage) according to Wikipedia
[06:19] <shauno> glad I don't have android then :/
[06:19] <MartijnVdS> Why?
[06:19] <HazRPG> 14.52MB here
[06:20] <MartijnVdS> newer phones have several GB application storage
[06:20] <shauno> because that seems like an incredibly silly limitation
[06:20] <MartijnVdS> the model is 19 months old!
[06:20] <HazRPG> I was just about to say...
[06:21] <MartijnVdS> I'm waiting for the next Google Official® phone
[06:21] <HazRPG> 14.52MB for facebook (1.5.4), with 4.80MB being application, and 9.71MB being data...
[06:21] <HazRPG> intrigued why its using 9.71 on data...
[06:21] <MartijnVdS> Too many friends :P
[06:21] <HazRPG> clearly o.O
[06:21] <shauno> penny pinching MBs wasn't normal 14 months ago either :p
[06:22] <MartijnVdS> shauno: Sure but they fixed that with the Nexus S already
[06:22] <HazRPG> shauno: trust me... this whole "penny pinching MB's" just reminds me of the 80's man o.O
[06:22] <shauno> I keep running out of space in 32GB.  <256MB sounds more like my first mp3 player.  more than 10 years ago
[06:22] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: Downside to the Nexus S is no external-card support though
[06:23] <MartijnVdS> shauno: it's just application storage
[06:23] <MartijnVdS> shauno: Media is on an SD card
[06:23] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: I don't need >32GB really
[06:23] <HazRPG> shauno: that's just internal memory, which was designed initially just for O/S gumph
[06:25] <HazRPG> shauno: problem lies with the app creators not allowing their apps to be installed to /sdcard
[06:25] <HazRPG> worst contenders are the free apps (or specifically games)
[06:25] <shauno> it sounds more like the bog-standard "it's okay to be horrendously broken, because it's 'open'" to me
[06:26] <HazRPG> I feel its their way of saying "if you want to preserve your free space so you can actually update apps, then buy our paid version so you can put it onto SD"
[06:26] <HazRPG> shauno: blame the hardware manufacturers... they're the ones modelling it this way
[06:26] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: those apps get lots of one-star reviews though
[06:27] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: ah, second main contender of my apps is Google Maps o.O
[06:27] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: wipe user data?
[06:27] <HazRPG> GMaps uses only 1.51MB of user data though :/
[06:27] <MartijnVdS> google earth is huge
[06:27] <HazRPG> yeah, but that installs to SD ^_^
[06:28] <MartijnVdS> only half of it does
[06:29] <HazRPG> ouch
[06:33] <HazRPG> I keep wondering if flash is really needed on my phone... barely browse the web on this
[06:33] <HazRPG> and if I do, its not flash sites
[06:33] <shauno> not sure I'll ever get used to them painting debconf pink
[06:34] <HazRPG> oh well, flash getting removed
[06:35] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: does android store tmp stuff that doesn't purge itself?
[06:35] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: i.e. the updates for apps
[06:36] <MartijnVdS> the packages? no
[06:36] <MartijnVdS> only the installed files
[06:37] <HazRPG> just trying to work out what's going on with this thing
[06:37] <HazRPG> oh well that's google skymap gone too
[06:38] <MartijnVdS> Skymap is nice
[06:38] <HazRPG> tis, but I barely get to use it
[06:38] <MartijnVdS> but you're in Cumbria
[06:38] <MartijnVdS> you have clear dark skies
[06:38] <MartijnVdS> or you're supposed to, anyway
[06:39] <HazRPG> I wish I could get rid of google googles, that just seems pointless, I used it once... and that was when it was in beta... but now it just simply refused to remove itself (you can only remove the updates)
[06:39] <MartijnVdS> Goggles? I use it as a barcode scanner
[06:39] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: you must be confused with somewhere else, we have cloud coverings (or rain) at least 75% of the time
[06:40] <HazRPG> I use the barcode scanner as a barcode scanner ^_^
[06:40] <MartijnVdS> 2 apps for 1 purpose \o/
[06:40] <HazRPG> lol
[06:40]  * MartijnVdS is off for a 10is mile run
[06:40] <MartijnVdS> (16ish km for those keeping count)
[06:41] <HazRPG> :P
[06:41] <HazRPG> just for fun?
[06:41] <MartijnVdS> Yeah, also a bit of training for http://damloop.nl/
[06:41] <HazRPG> ah cool, good luck :)
[06:41] <MartijnVdS> (ron from Amsterdam to Zaandam, 2 weeks from now)
[06:41] <HazRPG> woo 34MB free! \o/
[06:42] <HazRPG> and now my phone is spazzing out cos it can now update all the remaining apps and finally sync stuff up o.O
[06:42] <HazRPG> I've just heard the notification sound at least 8 times now XD
[06:42] <MartijnVdS> \o/
[06:42] <MartijnVdS> pixie dust :)
[06:43] <HazRPG> heh I use "On The Hunt"
[06:44] <HazRPG> and "Ta Da" for calendar stuff :)
[06:44] <MartijnVdS> Pixie Dust, but caffeinated rattlesnake for Google Talk
[06:44] <MartijnVdS> and Captains Log for twitter
[06:45] <HazRPG> I don't recall what I use for GTalk
[06:45] <HazRPG> emails are different too
[06:45] <MartijnVdS> anyway. Running. :)
[06:46] <HazRPG> literally ^_^
[06:46] <HazRPG> catch ya later, have fun :)
[07:21] <HazRPG> interesting, purging the facebook data seems to have shrunk it down to 7.02MB
[08:35] <MartijnVdS> back
[08:36] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msa=0&msid=214448722339818589968.0004ac0531f85492a2c87
[08:36] <MartijnVdS> Total Distance: 14.91 km (9.3 mi)
[08:36] <MartijnVdS> :(
[08:36] <MartijnVdS> wanted to do a bit more, but then I got home :)
[08:38] <HazRPG> considering you did that in less than 2hrs, I must say 'grats :)
[08:38] <MartijnVdS> heh
[08:38] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: I did it in less than 1:30:00 :)
[08:38] <MartijnVdS> ("total moving time: 1:28:48")
[08:38] <HazRPG> nice :)
[08:38] <HazRPG> (I was basing off timestamps on irc ^_^)
[08:40] <MartijnVdS> 8-)
[08:40] <HazRPG> I'm guessing your first leg was where you stressed yourself the most, @16.91km/h max speed ^_^
[08:40] <MartijnVdS> that might just be the GPS getting up to speed
[08:40] <HazRPG> rest of them average out
[08:40] <MartijnVdS> or a downhill bit
[08:40] <HazRPG> possibly :)
[08:42] <MartijnVdS> Time for some fresh teA
[08:42] <MartijnVdS> (Stop! Kettle time!)
[09:16] <HazRPG> hehe
[09:16] <HazRPG> its work time in the hazworkplace™
[09:23] <MartijnVdS> Work? on a Saturday?
[09:46] <HazRPG> yup
[09:46] <HazRPG> rollout needs to happen asap
[09:47] <HazRPG> plus... sooner I get it out... sooner I get paid... the more relaxation time I can has afterwards ^_^
[09:59] <brobostigon> good morning everyone.
[09:59] <MartijnVdS> hi brobostigon
[10:00] <brobostigon> hi MartijnVdS o/
[10:00] <Pernig> morning
[10:00] <brobostigon> hi Pernig
[10:01]  * MartijnVdS considers some early afternoon sleep
[10:01] <MartijnVdS> Running 15km takes a lot of energy :)
[10:01] <brobostigon> :) yes.
[10:02] <shauno> they're doing an ironman thingie here tomorrow.  daft buggers
[10:03] <MartijnVdS> shauno: Those people are strange :)
[10:03] <MartijnVdS> though I could have gone to 20km, if I'd taken enough water with me
[10:04] <shauno> "1.9-km swim in Galway Bay, 90K cycle, 21.1K run", according to one chap who's doing it tomorrow morning
[10:04] <MartijnVdS> ouch
[10:04] <MartijnVdS> that's a half marathon then I guess
[10:05] <MartijnVdS> (full is 42.something km)
[10:05] <MartijnVdS> yeah 42.195km
[10:05] <shauno> I have a hangover planned for tomorrow.  seems much more sensible.
[10:05] <Pernig> haha
[10:07] <MartijnVdS> (stereotype note: shauno seems to be Irish, or at least in Ireland :)
[10:10] <shauno> wifi at the office is proper dodgy today :/
[10:12] <shauno> only thing worse than a captive portal, is a senile one
[10:21] <Myrtti> do you British people appreciate the food that you produce or sell in your stores that is really, really quintessentially British? I'm sitting here, nibbling a dry-cured oak-smoked bacon rasher, I've got some nice cheddar with cheddar biccies waiting, and I'm absolutely adoring my elderflower cordial
[10:22] <Myrtti> or is most of this stuff just run of the mill, business as usual, 'never thought about it being special' kind of stuff
[10:22] <Myrtti> (just wondering)
[10:23] <HazRPG> brobostigon: morning dude ^_^
[10:23] <tris2468> Myrtti: it's kind of normal
[10:24] <Myrtti> am I being too philosophical early in the morning?
[10:24] <tris2468> I love elderflower cordial
[10:24] <HazRPG> Pernig: hey \o
[10:24] <shauno> I'm the wrong person to answer; haven't lived in the UK for 10 years now.  but when I was stuck in the states, I'd spend silly amounts trying to hunt down hp sauce, tea that actually tasted of tea, etc
[10:24] <Pernig> definitely not the stuff you'd generally buy in Tesco haha
[10:24] <Pernig> hi Haz
[10:24] <tris2468> some of that stuff you have to get in proper shops like farm shops and stuff
[10:24] <brobostigon> HazRPG: good morning :)
[10:25] <Myrtti> oh you can find this in Tesco if you are vigilant ;-)
[10:25] <tris2468> Myrtti: where did you get it? Did you take it back after oggcamp?
[10:25] <Myrtti> but you see, you wouldn't find *any* of this stuff in a big supermarket in Finland, apart from some rare occasion when there is _Cathedral_ _City_ cheddar in there
[10:25] <Myrtti> tris2468: I'm flying tomorrow :-<
[10:26] <tris2468> Ah OK, I didn't know you were still here
[10:26] <Pernig> cathedral city
[10:26] <Myrtti> still here tho \o/
[10:26] <Pernig> that's pretty nice
[10:26] <Pernig> believe it or not farmhouse cheese was extinct after WWII
[10:26] <Pernig> there were only three recipes left
[10:26] <tris2468> Pernig: wow I never knew that
[10:27] <Myrtti> I absolutely adore the fruit and veg section in almost any decent sized supermarket in UK
[10:29] <HazRPG> Myrtti: hmm, that's a tough one... I pretty much live off pizza half the time... that and tuna sandwiches!
[10:29] <Myrtti> when I'm alone in Finland I wish I had the fruit portion options of UK, and the quacamoles and salsas
[10:29] <Myrtti> I don't like tin pineapple, and I don't want to buy a whole pineapple either
[10:29] <Myrtti> so... I have no pineapple
[10:30] <HazRPG> Myrtti: Welcome to the UK, home of the ready-meals ^_^ (or as the american's call it, TV Dinners)
[10:30] <Pernig> i wonder if you could freeze pineapple
[10:30] <HazRPG> Pernig: sure can :) - you can freeze anything!
[10:31] <shauno> I love getting pineapples whole.  they're good fun to hack apart
[10:31] <Pernig> freezers are my new favourite invention
[10:31] <Myrtti> HazRPG: well atleast your ready-meals are fairly decent and there's plenty of choice
[10:31] <Pernig> when margarine is on offer i buy loads and freeze them all haha
[10:31] <HazRPG> Pernig: same, except I want a bigger one... just so I can store more food stuffs!
[10:32] <Myrtti> HazRPG: I'm blown away with the ready-meal options of chinese and indian etc in the supermarkets - nothing like that in Finland, not in that scale
[10:32] <Pernig> i bought a beef risotto from home bargains for 49 pence the other day
[10:32] <HazRPG> Myrtti: I think its mainly because we British are breed to be lazy :P
[10:32] <Pernig> freeze dried job
[10:32] <Pernig> it was pretty nice!
[10:33] <Pernig> i think next time i will buy two though
[10:33] <HazRPG> Myrtti: some of my friends who live on farms, or live out in the country side swear by making stuff at home (and I can't blame them, when they can cook that good!)
[10:33] <brobostigon> HazRPG: i have to cook mostly from scratch, as alot of the premade stuff, has things i am alllergic to.
[10:34] <HazRPG> Myrtti: Although, I know exactly what you mean. When I lived in Saudi it was basically "don't know how to cook, get yourself a happy meal instead" type thing... which sucks :(
[10:34] <Myrtti> HazRPG: yeah I love to cook, but there are days and times that it's impossible to cook
[10:34] <HazRPG> Pernig: heh, nice... might have to try and see if I can get me some of that!
[10:35] <HazRPG> Myrtti: Quick trick I learned in Saudi... get a big freezer, learn to cook in big quantities, store in freezer :)
[10:35] <Myrtti> yeah, my apartment in Finland doesn't have a freezer tho :-<
[10:35] <HazRPG> :(
[10:36] <HazRPG> Myrtti: not at all?
[10:36] <Myrtti> never bothered the landlord to replace my fridge
[10:36] <shauno> for me, it'd be closer to "get a big freezer - climb in it!".  I'd melt in saudi :/
[10:36] <Pernig> shame you are in an apartment, if you had a garden you could just put things outside in winter :P
[10:36] <HazRPG> brobostigon: ouch dude, that must suck :( - although I feel your pain, my favourite food group (cheese) is slowly starting to not sit in my stomach much these days :(
[10:36] <Myrtti> Pernig: I do have a glazed balcony, which I use to keep my old guineapig stuff :-D
[10:37] <brobostigon> HazRPG: yes, it is, but it allows for alot more creativity in my part. :). that aint good to hear, :(
[10:37] <HazRPG> brobostigon: started drinking black coffee as a result too... and not eating cereal (or at least not with milk)
[10:38] <brobostigon> HazRPG: yes, makes sense.
[10:38] <Myrtti> HazRPG: hmmm are you sure about the cheese? if it's lactose intolerance then cheese shouldn't cause any symptoms
[10:38] <HazRPG> shauno: no need, air-con fits that bill ;D
[10:38] <Myrtti> (given it's been matured long enough)
[10:39] <sagaci> is there an #ubuntu-uk-chat or similar that isn't logged
[10:40] <Myrtti> sagaci: no.
[10:40] <Myrtti> why?
[10:41] <HazRPG> Myrtti: hmm... I've always had problems stomaching anything with cheese in it... its just getting worse with time... milk never use to affect me, but it is now... sadly :(
[10:41] <sagaci> I'm usually in the ubuntu-au team channel and currently we have an -au and -au-chat, -chat being not logged. Just trying to gauge if any other teams do what we do
[10:42] <HazRPG> Myrtti: I know my mum became lactose intolerant (when she was like 30 odd)... seems I'm getting the same, however I think on the cheese front, I think its more to do with the fact that its (as you said) matured
[10:43] <shauno> sagaci: I'm curious, do you end up with people chatting in both channels?
[10:44] <HazRPG> heh sagaci killed the convo ^_^
[10:45] <HazRPG> ...bah! I'm hungry now o.O
[10:45] <sagaci> kinda, there was discussion on our mailing list over a year ago but I came to the party late and didn't realise how it was all structured, it's just that I find the -au-chat fairly redundant since we're don't get that much chat in the "main" channel anyhow
[10:45] <shauno> that's what I thought would happen :/
[10:46] <shauno> either one channel would 'win', or you'd have a divisive split between the holier-than-thou in the logged channel, and the black helicopter types in the other
[10:46] <sagaci> and there's been times where I've said something worth logging in the chat channel and it's been lost since it's not a logged channel :/
[10:46] <HazRPG> sagaci: yeah, that sort of thing does happen... you essentially split the community up by doing that, you make them feel like they *can't* talk in the normal channel unless its on-topic
[10:46] <shauno> (to completely stereotype each end of the scale)
[10:47] <Pernig> back soon guys, stuff to do :\
[10:47] <HazRPG> Pernig: gl;hf;
[10:47] <sagaci> it's just that you come into this channel and there can be "on-topic" stuff and there can be cheese stomach problems, which I think it's how it should be since main support is in #ubuntu and official channels
[10:48] <HazRPG> shauno: heh, that's a anon/known stereotype your making there (either that or: black hat vs white hat)
[10:49] <shauno> nah, the black helicopter / tinfoil hat types are older than the internet :)
[10:49] <HazRPG> sagaci: agreed :)
[10:49] <HazRPG> shauno: ah, heh
[10:49] <shauno> I think it should be this way.  as long as people know to shelf their cheese if they're getting in the way of on-topic discussion
[10:50] <HazRPG> shauno: most do :)
[10:50] <shauno> otherwise would be a bit strange having a 'community' that discourages getting to know each other
[10:50] <HazRPG> its rare to see off-topic when people is having issues (well minus any trolls)
[10:50] <Myrtti> sagaci: Finnish loco has HORDE of channels, including a chat channel - but I can't remember which of them are logged and which are not
[10:51] <sagaci> because I find it a bit hard to figure out what's on-topic and what's not and what's worth logging and what's classified as "rubbish"
[10:51] <HazRPG> sagaci: that's just it though, its all subjective
[10:52] <HazRPG> what I find that might be "interesting" or "on-topic" might not be
[10:52] <sagaci> yeah, I might bring it up
[10:52] <HazRPG> sagaci: worth bring it up, if anything - worst that'll happen is that they'll keep *-chat
[10:53] <HazRPG> Myrtti: ah, but we also have other channels... e.g. #ubuntu-uk-minecraft
[10:54] <HazRPG> however #ubuntu-uk-minecraft makes sense though
[10:54] <Myrtti> HazRPG: I know that one, I suggested it :-)
[10:54] <sagaci> yeah, i'll wget the logs from the past 6 months and see what's kind of average/mode I get for lines of chat on each day
[10:54] <HazRPG> Myrtti: I know you did, I was there ;)
[10:55] <HazRPG> sagaci: do they not already have a script that does that already?
[10:55] <sagaci> maybe they do
[10:57] <HazRPG> bah, apparently ours is gone with the new site
[10:57] <HazRPG> popey, AlanBell: What happened to the "common words" and "common phrases" section of our logs?
[10:58] <HazRPG> I could have sworn there use to be one...
[10:58] <HazRPG> sagaci: ah wait, here it is: http://ubuntu-uk.org/ircstats/
[10:59] <HazRPG> I was just looking for the wrong thing ^_^
[10:59] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG spoke a total of 5294 words!
[11:00] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG talks to him/herself a lot. He/She wrote over 5 lines in a row 5 times!
[11:00] <shauno> and if you go to the bottom, "HazRPG talks to him/herself a lot", which explains half of them :)
[11:00] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: haha, apparently we're both the most chatty :P
[11:00] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: apparently, you sleep between 18-23 :)
[11:02] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: that's probably more likely when I'm working :P
[11:02] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: so when do you sleep? :)
[11:02] <HazRPG> varies
[11:03] <HazRPG> I sleep maybe 3-6hrs a day
[11:03] <shauno> heh, I'd like to see a computer guess when I sleep :)
[11:03] <HazRPG> shauno: well this computer is well off... because I'm usually gibbering away to you between 18-23 :P
[11:04] <shauno> *18-5
[11:05] <MartijnVdS> 0-24
[11:05] <shauno> lol
[11:05] <HazRPG> this one made me lul: shauno is also a sad person, crying 11.6% of the time.
[11:05] <shauno> he's funny sometimes.  I'll wake up to find 5 hours worth of babble, finished with "oh wait, you said you were going to sleep"
[11:06] <HazRPG> shauno: rofl, not always XD
[11:06] <shauno> no, sometimes you're still going when I wake up
[11:06] <HazRPG> I just forget some people sleep more than me o.O
[11:06] <MartijnVdS> (or at all)
[11:07] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: You still think I'm a bot don't you :P
[11:07] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: There is a possibility ;)
[11:10] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: Ah, I just thought, some nites I play SC2 at around the 18-23 mark :) - usually my mumble server is full around those hours
[11:11] <sagaci> so is ubuntu-uk.org Canonical hosted or by the virtue of someone here?
[11:13] <shauno> I believe it's on a vps donated by the vendor
[11:13] <HazRPG> well we're an official LoCo
[11:13] <HazRPG> that's as much as I know...
[11:14] <HazRPG> oh, we have a mumble server too iirc
[11:14] <HazRPG> (on same said vps)
[11:14] <shauno> I thought mumble was on one of mr Bell's german boxes
[11:14] <HazRPG> shauno: ah, could be actually...
[11:14] <shauno> (I pay attention to the oddest details.  leftover from my stalker days :)
[11:15] <HazRPG> never anyone on it though sadly :(
[11:15] <jacobw> o.o
[11:15] <AlanBell> HazRPG: nothing to do with me
[11:16] <HazRPG> AlanBell: Hmm?
[11:16] <AlanBell> the stats
[11:16] <HazRPG> ah, oh... yeah I found them, I was looking for the wrong keywords
[11:16] <Lcawte> Hmm, anyone know the best places I can drum up some interest for the Ubuntu Gaming Team... mainly marketing with little bits of everything else on the side...
[11:17] <HazRPG> I was expecting them to show up at the top under "today's chatter"
[11:19] <HazRPG> Lcawte: best bet is on a mailing list of some sort I think...
[11:20] <shauno> when I take over the world, whoever came up with Lotus Notes gets a 3 minute head start.  grrrrrr.
[11:21] <HazRPG> Lcawte: https://lists.ubuntu.com/
[11:22] <HazRPG> Lcawte: probably best targeting the LoCo's since those tend to be a bit more generalised, rather than having a topic set
[11:22]  * Lcawte spams #ubuntu-uk
[11:23] <penguin42> shauno: That's much too generous
[11:24] <shauno> oh it's purely to make the hunt more entertaining for me
[11:24] <jacobw> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-14771361
[11:24] <jacobw> :(
[11:24] <HazRPG> Lcawte: this might be worth a try too: http://icculus.org/lgfaq/#istherea
[11:24] <HazRPG> shauno: heh, lotus in general use to annoy me
[11:25] <shauno> my folders are out of sync with the server.  so I have folders that are labelled as having 5 unread, but don't contain anything at all :/
[11:41] <HazRPG> pizza in over, 15mins and count to nom time \o/
[11:41] <HazRPG> s/count/counting/*
[11:41] <brobostigon> oven*
[11:41] <HazRPG> that too
[11:42] <HazRPG> one of those days
[11:42] <brobostigon> :)
[11:42] <HazRPG> so hoping my code does crap on itself when I try to run it later
[11:42] <brobostigon> fingers crossed.
[11:42] <HazRPG> (from spelling errors)
[11:42] <HazRPG> brobostigon: :)
[11:43] <brobostigon> :)
[11:46]  * HazRPG makes bash script to make pizza cook faster
[11:46] <brobostigon> :)
[11:46] <HazRPG> brobostigon: been doing a lot of bash stuff recently, since shauno showed me the way to ~/bin/
[11:47] <brobostigon> ah, i see. ok.
[11:47] <shauno> there used to be a script hanging around that'd order pizzas from dominos
[11:48] <gord> there should be a "buy developer a pizza button" on launchpad
[11:49] <HazRPG> gord: heh, now that would be pretty smart :P
[11:49] <HazRPG> gord: although, could you imagine a pizza randomly turning up at your office/home at random times of the day... several times a day (if you were a popular dev)... that would get insane o.O
[11:50] <HazRPG> would be funnier to see the pizzaman's face more than anything
[11:52] <gord> HazRPG, there are always uses for pizza!
[11:54] <HazRPG> gord: like pizza trading? (the developers game™)
[11:55] <HazRPG> hmm, oven timer lied! It said pizza was done (when its not!). o.O
[11:57] <HazRPG> trying to populate 21 (tabbed and padded out) sql statements in php is not cool o.O
[11:58] <HazRPG> just managed to finish it... but still... not cool!
[12:08] <HazRPG> 50% pizza eaten complete :)
[12:09] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Alistair McKinlay] To patent or not to patent - http://www.10people.co.uk/index.php/2011/09/to-patent/
[12:21] <HazRPG> bah, see I hate patents for this reason... patents now are just another "allows us to sue" mechanism
[12:31] <MartijnVdS> always have been
[12:31] <MartijnVdS> but now the economy is worse, and companies need money harder
[12:38] <shauno> I think they're sensible in theory.  but that theory is long since out the window
[13:01] <MartijnVdS> ooh new Doctor tonight.. and a scary one too it seems
[13:22] <exobuzz> uk demo party next weekend - http://www.sunrisedemoparty.co.uk/
[13:24] <shauno> why did I have in my head that dr who was sundays :/
[13:25] <MartijnVdS> shauno: maybe when you were young..? :)
[13:26] <hamitron> anyone know if you get cut off from your mobile provider, if you have lost the number?
[13:26] <hamitron> :/
[13:26] <MartijnVdS> hamitron: do you still get bills?
[13:26] <MartijnVdS> hamitron: you should be able to find everything you need on them
[13:26] <hamitron> it is payg
[13:26] <MartijnVdS> ah
[13:26] <MartijnVdS> won't it just expire after a while then?
[13:26] <hamitron> it seems like it has
[13:26] <hamitron> but they never txt or wrote to me
[13:27] <hamitron> just dead
[13:27] <MartijnVdS> hamitron: "dead" as in "can't connect to network"?
[13:27] <hamitron> yeh
[13:27] <MartijnVdS> Is it one of the big providers? I'd ask in their shop.
[13:28] <hamitron> it is orange
[13:28] <StevenR> hamitron: multi-location issues?
[13:28] <MartijnVdS> Ask in an Orange store :)
[13:28] <hamitron> there is no orange store locally
[13:28] <StevenR> hamitron: I had trouble in one place once
[13:28] <MartijnVdS> hamitron: isn't Orange T-Mobile now?
[13:28] <hamitron> I dunno tbh
[13:28]  * hamitron shrugs
[13:29] <hamitron> I had this number for 14 years and never changed
[13:29] <StevenR> reported it, they blamed my phone, I told them that was clearly not the phone. They phoned a week later with "yeah, um, sorry, our transmitter is bust"
[13:29] <MartijnVdS> hamitron: you could call their help desk from another phone
[13:30] <hamitron> I maybe should
[13:30] <hamitron> :/
[13:30] <StevenR> hamitron: do you have another orange phone nearby (friend's/etc) ?
[13:30] <hamitron> no
[13:30] <StevenR> or T-mobile
[13:30] <hamitron> no
[13:30] <hamitron> haha
[13:30] <MartijnVdS> can you "scan networks"?
[13:30] <StevenR> hamitron: when did it stop working?
[13:31] <hamitron> StevenR: sometime in the last week
[13:31] <StevenR> hamitron: have you been to other locations in that time?
[13:31] <hamitron> I only really look at it when it rings
[13:31] <hamitron> no
[13:31] <hamitron> :)
[13:31] <StevenR> hmm
[13:31] <MartijnVdS> did you add balance in the last few months?
[13:31] <hamitron> "SIM Card registration failed"
[13:31] <hamitron> on reboot of phone
[13:32] <StevenR> do you have another phone you can try with that sim, an old one maybe?
[13:32] <hamitron> MartijnVdS: no
[13:32] <hamitron> and no
[13:32] <hamitron> :/
[13:32] <MartijnVdS> hamitron: that would be it then
[13:32] <StevenR> hamitron: could be the cell is full, depending where you are?
[13:32] <MartijnVdS> hamitron: they reset the "used" counter only when you give them money
[13:32] <MartijnVdS> at least, they do here
[13:32] <hamitron> MartijnVdS: so i lost the number?
[13:33] <MartijnVdS> hamitron: you might be able to get it back if you call the help desk and ask nicely and/or use a different phone to add balance
[13:33] <MartijnVdS> I don't know
[13:33] <hamitron> I feel like telling them to f' off anyway
[13:33] <hamitron> haha
[13:33] <hamitron> I don't exactly need a phone
[13:34] <hamitron> just would be polite to let me know if they were going to cut it off
[13:36] <hamitron> 07 number from a landline will cost more than it is worth imo
[13:36] <hamitron> so probably just leave it
[13:40]  * MartijnVdS has 2 months left on his Voda contract
[13:40] <MartijnVdS> I hope the rumoured "Nexus Prime" will be out by then
[13:40] <hamitron> "If you're visually impaired and can't read text messages, please call 0800 079 0006 to talk to us and we'll help "
[13:41] <hamitron> I reckon I come under "can't read text messages"
[13:41] <hamitron> since it is cut off
[13:41] <hamitron> give that a go
[13:41] <hamitron> :)
[13:41] <hamitron> brb
[13:41] <shauno> alternatively, I can do a good impression of visual impaired, given enough scotch
[13:41]  * StevenR still needs to buy a green robot telephone
[13:42]  * mgdm has a green robot *and* a green robot phone
[13:43] <MartijnVdS> shauno: so THAT's why they call it "blind drunk"
[13:44] <hamitron> :D
[13:45] <hamitron> I give up
[13:45] <hamitron> it won't accept the word yes or no from me
[13:45] <hamitron> :/
[13:45] <hamitron> damn voice recognisation
[13:46] <shauno> keep forgetting you're a yorkshire lad :p
[13:46] <hamitron> I am blessed ;/
[13:47] <shauno> I have relatives near newcastle that I simply can't understand.  I don't really blame voice recognition sometimes
[14:01] <popey> Afternooon all :D
[14:05] <Lcawte> Good afternoon
[14:06] <Lcawte> Hmm, why'd my GIMP freeze, I may have just lost my best bit of Ubuntu work yet ;P
[14:14] <AlanBell>  /window 31
[14:16] <shauno> and I thought I was an irc addict
[14:16] <mgdm> I have 40-odd open just now
[14:18] <AlanBell> I did prune some when I had over 100
[14:18] <shauno> I prune as soon as I can't reach them all from meta1-0 :/
[14:52] <ali1234> hamitron when did you last top up?
[14:53] <ali1234> you should get a contract sim anyway, it is far better value
[14:59] <ball> That reminds me, I need to top up my phone.
[14:59] <ball> ali1234: I get better value from a pay-as-you-go with unlimited text and web.
[15:00] <ali1234> how much better?
[15:00] <Pernig> i bet you don't get a free phone though :P
[15:01] <ali1234> t-mobile is £10/month for 100 minutes and 100 texts and 1 booster, where boost = unlimited internet or unlimited texts, and you also get a free phone (but only a cheapo one)
[15:02] <ball> UKP 21.58/month for 300 mins talk and unlimited data.
[15:03] <ball> Pernig: No, I had to pay a little bit for the phone.
[15:03] <Pernig> that giffgaff looks quite interesting
[15:03] <ali1234> that's not really better value :/
[15:04] <ali1234> not if you rarely make calls anyway
[15:04] <ball> ali1234: 300 mins is perfect for me.  If I used it less there are other options but I went from contract to PAYG.
[15:05] <ball> ...because my contract carrier couldn't offer anything comparable.
[15:05] <ball> How much is petrol today?
[15:06] <ali1234> for £20/month t-mobile will give you 600 minutes, 500 texts, a booster, and a htc wildfire s (android)
[15:07] <funkyHat> ali1234: 2 year contract?
[15:07] <ball> ali1234: Unlimited data?
[15:09] <hamitron> ali1234: probably a long time ago, I've put £5 on 7 times over 12 years
[15:09] <ali1234> ball: you can choose "unlimited" internet as the booster, or some other things. you can switch each month too. so if going on holiday, you can switch it to cheap roaming
[15:10] <ali1234> and yes, 2 year contract. so what? are you going to decide you don't want a mobile phone in 1 years time?
[15:10]  * hamitron is deciding to have no phone as from now
[15:10] <hamitron> ;)
[15:11]  * Pernig is on a two year contract
[15:11] <Pernig> just over one year in and fortunately my phone is still kind of current
[15:11] <hamitron> if my work arrangements change to something where I am moving around a lot, I may consider a contract I suppose
[15:11] <ball> UKP20/month isn't bad.  T-mobile don't offer anything like that over here.
[15:12] <Pernig> mine is £35 :|
[15:12] <hamitron> Pernig: your contract is as much as I've topped up in 12 years :-o
[15:12] <hamitron> scarey
[15:12] <Pernig> hamitron: it would be more if i were on pay as you go
[15:13] <Pernig> not to mention the cost of the phone itself
[15:13] <ball> That reminds me, I should top up.
[15:13] <ball> Pernig: That's a one-off cost though.
[15:13] <hamitron> I have had 3 phones to buy also
[15:13] <Pernig> it's still a cost i'd rather not pay
[15:13] <ball> Pernig: Provided you don't buy a new phone every year, it's probably not much of an issue.
[15:13] <hamitron> so £170 for phones, and maybe another £100 for ngage games
[15:13] <hamitron> :)
[15:14] <Pernig> i will probably keep this phone once my contract runs out and go for a cheaper tarriff
[15:15] <funkyHat> ali1234: just asking ⢁). I'm on a 2 year contract with tmob too
[15:15] <Pernig> last time i ended up making money when i upgraded due to selling the old phone :P
[15:15] <ali1234> i could have sold the free phone i got, but decided to keep it for the spare battery which is the same as N900
[15:16] <funkyHat> Pernig: not completely conviced that counts as making money ;P
[15:16] <ali1234> could have sold it for like £60, which is 1/4 of the total cost of the contract
[15:16] <Pernig> lol you're right funkyHat
[15:16] <hamitron> funkyHat: agreed, there is a contract to pay off in the future :/
[15:17] <funkyHat> ali1234: um... sounds like 1/8th to me?
[15:17] <ali1234> no, because my contract was only £10/month
[15:17] <funkyHat> ali1234: oh, thought you were talking about the £20/m one
[15:17] <hamitron> can you buy numbers?
[15:18] <funkyHat> hamitron: what do you mean?
[15:18] <ali1234> i'll sell you a vowel
[15:18] <hamitron> like buy a number, so nobody can take it off you
[15:18] <Pernig> a phone number?
[15:18] <hamitron> yeh, a phone #
[15:18] <hamitron> :)
[15:18] <Pernig> i guess if you keep your sim topped up or keep the same contract you can
[15:19] <Pernig> i've had the same # for 5 years
[15:19] <hamitron> I've had mine for 12 years
[15:19] <hamitron> :/
[15:19] <funkyHat> hamitron: how would someone be able to take a number off you?
[15:19] <Pernig> lol
[15:19] <hamitron> funkyHat: well, I've had the number for 12 years, and just failed to topup or spend or something
[15:19] <hamitron> funkyHat: now they taken it off me
[15:20] <funkyHat> hamitron: oh... don't know if there's anything you can do about that
[15:20] <hamitron> by buying number, I mean to own the number then have control even if the contract is terminated, etc
[15:20] <ali1234> they have to allow porting of numbers now
[15:20] <ali1234> as long as you don't end the contract
[15:21] <ali1234> which you did
[15:21] <ali1234> so you are screwed
[15:21] <hamitron> ali1234: they ended my contract without warning
[15:21] <hamitron> ;/
[15:21] <ali1234> he warning was in the contract
[15:21] <ali1234> if you don't top up every few months, orange cut you off
[15:21] <hamitron> yeh, so they have control over me with a contract
[15:22] <hamitron> which is why i wonder about buying just a number
[15:22] <ali1234> yes, but the contract gives you rights too, like the right to port the number
[15:22] <ali1234> but once the contract ends you lose those rights
[15:22] <ali1234> so yeah it works both ways
[15:22] <ball> I had fun explaining rotary dial telephones to fork earlier this week.
[15:22] <ball> She's six, but she cottoned onto it fairly quickly.
[15:22] <ali1234> you can get a 0870 number for free
[15:22] <Pernig> not seen one of those for a while
[15:22] <ali1234> or a vanity one for a cost
[15:22] <ball> I have a rotary dial app for my phone :-)
[15:22] <ali1234> it costs people more to ring you though
[15:23] <ali1234> anyway you can buy a number and just have it redirect
[15:23] <hamitron> ali1234: but there is no way I could keep the number without transfering to another contract I assume?
[15:23] <ali1234> there is no way you could use the number without being on a contract
[15:23] <hamitron> yeh, I accept that
[15:24] <hamitron> but I just don't want a number tied with the contract
[15:24] <hamitron> in case they decide to terminate it again
[15:25] <hamitron> tbh, not worth it
[15:26] <hamitron> the fact they disconnected me, shows how much I use it
[15:26] <hamitron> :)
[15:26] <hamitron> and my friends can't moan about me not taking my mobile phone with me now, as technically I don't have one
[15:26] <hamitron> \o/
[15:30] <shauno> I have an old phone like that.  I put a tenner on it each year just to keep the number active
[15:30] <hamitron> I was going to, just forgot
[15:30] <hamitron> :/
[15:30] <hamitron> I receive calls each week on it
[15:30] <hamitron> not now though
[15:30] <hamitron> ;)
[15:31] <shauno> this one I just keep because I have the number forwarded to my real phone
[15:32] <hamitron> hoenstly I don't care for a mobile really
[15:32] <hamitron> honestly
[15:32] <hamitron> but it is just the fact people always could contact me on this number, I find annoying
[15:32] <Pernig> i do as i don't have a house phone :P
[15:33] <penguin42> likes having google maps and reader on the go
[15:33] <hamitron> I just have a landline
[15:33] <hamitron> I like my DSL
[15:33] <hamitron> :)
[15:33]  * Pernig likes the neighbours' DSL
[15:34] <hamitron> I wonder how many do that.... I know loads that do it
[15:34] <hamitron> mine is secure ofc
[15:34] <Pernig> it's my friend's and i chip in now and again so i'm not a complete scoundrel
[15:34] <hamitron> yeh, most I know just take the piss tbh
[15:35] <hamitron> :/
[15:35] <hamitron> take the mick I mean
[15:35] <hamitron> :/
[15:35] <ali1234> all my neighbours stopped using WEP
[15:35] <ali1234> i have no idea why
[15:35] <hamitron> ali1234: warnings from your pr0n downloads? ;)
[15:36] <hamitron> I not even got wifi
[15:36] <hamitron> :/
[15:36] <hamitron> keep considering setting up wifi in 1 room
[15:37] <hamitron> so can just casually use it
[15:37] <hamitron> rather than have cables across the floor to the laptop
[15:37] <ali1234> my wifi is only for people who aren't me
[15:38] <ali1234> because wifi sucks
[15:38]  * Pernig doesn't have much choice
[15:39] <mgdm> Everything I own is connected by wifi, except for my TV and BD player, which are wired to wifi bridge
[15:39] <gord> http://halytech.imgur.com/usb_secret#36p0D heh
[15:39] <ball> Looks like petrol is 60p/litre today.
[15:40] <Pernig> ball: where?
[15:40] <hamitron> Pernig: can't use a landline?
[15:40]  * funkyHat has wires where they make sense, wireless for laptops and phones
[15:40] <ball> Pernig: Illinois, USA
[15:40] <Pernig> lucky you!
[15:41] <hamitron> mine was 144.9p today
[15:41] <hamitron> :/
[15:41] <Pernig> i could but it would mean paying for it, something i'm loathe to do
[15:41] <Pernig> works out cheaper to chip in with the neighbours
[15:41] <hamitron> Pernig: yeh
[15:41] <hamitron> makes sense if you are happy with wifi
[15:42] <Pernig> i'm not entirely happy to be honest
[15:42] <hamitron> but when I personally tested wifi, the range was awful around the house
[15:42] <hamitron> it was younger tech back then ofc
[15:42] <hamitron> but it was going to cost £80 per AP
[15:42] <Pernig> i am using N and it's managing to pick it up from another building
[15:42] <hamitron> and I needed 4 or 5 of them
[15:43] <Pernig> but it's got about 7M of USB extensions daisy chained to the computer
[15:43] <hamitron> plus £25 for a network card
[15:43] <ball> When I moved here 13 years ago petrol was just 21p/litre
[15:43] <hamitron> instead I got 305m of CAT5e cable for £35
[15:43] <ball> ...if only electric cars were more practical here.
[15:43] <hamitron> :)
[15:43] <ali1234> usb?
[15:44]  * StevenR is working towards NoCommute :)
[15:44] <Pernig> ali1234: from the computer to the wireless adaptor
[15:44] <ball> hamitron: I'm able to cover all of my house with an 802.11n wireless access point
[15:44] <ball> ...probably most of the garden too.
[15:45] <hamitron> ball: I jsut find the walls stop wifi dead
[15:45] <hamitron> :/
[15:45] <ali1234> my 802.11g covers about 2 houses in each direction
[15:45] <ball> hamitron: Metal walls?
[15:45] <hamitron> no
[15:45] <ali1234> you people must live in drydocked oil tankers and 18th century mansions or something
[15:45] <ball> ali1234: I haven't tested that ;-)
[15:45] <penguin42> gord: Oh interesting - I've got a drive very like that
[15:46] <Pernig> once you are in the next house the connection isn't too reliable though
[15:46] <ali1234> i find the connection is unreliable even if you are under 1m from the AP
[15:46] <ali1234> that's why i hate wifi
[15:46] <ali1234> i get a better connection on bluetooth
[15:46] <ali1234> even from another room
[15:47]  * funkyHat has had virtually no problems with his 802.11g access point for about 5 years
[15:47] <popey> Where I was on holiday there was no signal on any network at all
[15:47] <Pernig> i think i'd rather have even wireless G than bluetooth
[15:47] <popey> well, 3, orange, voda and o2
[15:47] <Pernig> isn't is like 3mbps?
[15:47] <popey> I had to walk up a hill to get any signal at all
[15:47] <ali1234> something like that
[15:47] <ali1234> but it disconnects less
[15:47] <ali1234> popey: was it up hill both ways?
[15:47] <popey> ya
[15:48] <popey> in a little valley
[15:48] <hamitron> grrrrr
[15:48] <ball> Pernig: 3 megabits/sec for Bluetooth?
[15:48] <Pernig> ball: yes i think for PAN
[15:49] <ging> wifi is lame, i got myself a pair of homeplugs
[15:49] <popey> http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=ashcombe,+devon&hl=en&ll=50.601776,-3.531402&spn=0.002935,0.003739&sll=53.800651,-4.064941&sspn=22.488769,30.629883&vpsrc=6&t=h&z=18
[15:49] <popey> that building
[15:49] <hamitron> I haven't tried 802.11n, but 802.11g stops dead
[15:49] <Pernig> it depends what profile you are using
[15:49] <ging> i might get another pair to join them
[15:49] <hamitron> :/
[15:49] <Pernig> object push would be more like 50KB/s
[15:49] <ali1234> raw bluetooth sockets :)
[15:49] <ging> hamitron: n is no better than g, it basicly just uses extra chanels at once to get more data
[15:50] <ali1234> pretty much anything that uses AF_INET can be trivially converted to use bluetooth
[15:50] <funkyHat> ging: I'm not keen on those really... for wired stuff I've put in regular ethernet, and they aren't any help for stuff I want to move around anyway
[15:50] <Pernig> i find N has much better range than G
[15:50] <StevenR> ging: that's not what I've found.
[15:50] <funkyHat> I guess if you're not allowed to drill ethernet over power is probably the best option for fixed stuff though
[15:50] <StevenR> hamitron: what are the walls made of?
[15:50] <hamitron> brick
[15:50] <hamitron> :/
[15:50] <ging> Pernig: probably because the kit you have for N is better than the kit you had for G
[15:50] <StevenR> hamitron: redbrick?
[15:50] <ali1234> brick is easy
[15:51] <hamitron> StevenR: a mixture of red brick, stone and chalk perhaps
[15:51] <StevenR> hmmm
[15:51] <Pernig> ging: maybe, it seems quite a coincidence though
[15:51] <hamitron> I know some bits you can't drill through
[15:51] <hamitron> :D
[15:51] <ali1234> double plaster board, now that is annoying
[15:52] <hamitron> I burnt out a drill, fitting ethernet around the house
[15:52] <hamitron> :/
[15:52] <ali1234> trying to get the wire through the hole on the other side without making it an inch wide
[15:52] <ging> Pernig: if you had 3 people shouting at you accross a field you've got slightly more chance of hearing them than if it was just 1, but not much
[15:52] <hamitron> ali1234: indeed :)
[15:52] <ball> I should rewire my house for gigabit, but there are other things that need doing first.
[15:52]  * hamitron is considering the jump to 1gbit soon
[15:52] <StevenR> hamitron: how thick are the walls?
[15:53] <StevenR> internal walls I mean
[15:53] <hamitron> StevenR: probably 5 brick widths at a guess
[15:53] <hamitron> they are solid
[15:54] <StevenR> yeah, that'd be a problem for wireless signals
[15:54] <funkyHat> ball: cat5e should do gigabit as long as there isn't too much interference... or is your ethernet older than that?
[15:54] <ali1234> coax lol
[15:54] <hamitron> StevenR: it was 3 terrace houses before
[15:54]  * funkyHat just needs to replace his switches to get gigabit
[15:54] <hamitron> funkyHat: same :)
[15:55] <funkyHat> ⢁)
[15:55]  * hamitron doesn't have fancy chars
[15:55] <hamitron> you 4 eyed monster you
[15:55] <hamitron> ;)
[15:57] <hamitron> so 1 AP for each section of the old house, 1 for the extension, and 1 for the garage
[15:57] <hamitron> 5 AP
[15:57] <hamitron> :/
[15:59] <hamitron> wires are better anyway
[15:59] <hamitron> got the wires now, so no point in spending money on stuff that is slower
[16:00]  * StevenR nods
[16:00] <funkyHat> I like being able to sit wherever with a laptop, and using the wifi for my phone which is significantly faster than 3G internet
[16:00] <funkyHat> But otherwise of course wires are better ⡈)
[16:01] <hamitron> my internet is 360kbit this second
[16:01] <hamitron> :/
[16:01]  * hamitron cries
[16:01] <funkyHat> Oh, so actually my 3G would be quicker ;D
[16:01] <hamitron> indeed, but I rarely get a 2G signal
[16:01] <hamitron> so dunno about 3G
[16:01] <hamitron> 2G is fine in the garden
[16:02] <hamitron> but it is always raining when I need to make a call
[16:02] <hamitron> :/
[16:03] <hamitron> I like my DSL, I can stream cd quality radio and stuff
[16:03] <hamitron> ;)
[16:04] <Pernig> no 3G around here
[16:04] <hamitron> the map says I am on the border of 3G
[16:05] <hamitron> so dunno
[16:05] <hamitron> if I actually put some effort in, bought an antenna, maybe be ok
[16:06] <hamitron> but I swear I'm turning into a technophobe
[16:06] <hamitron> ;/
[16:08] <ball> I'm not a technophobe, but there's a lot of it I could quite happily live without
[16:08] <ball> ...it would be nice so simplify and save a bit of money in the process.
[16:08] <hamitron> I guess that is a little like me
[16:09] <gord> i just want less things beeping at me, i don't know why we turned in to a civilisation that does what the electronic device beeping at us tells us to, but i for one, will not stand for it
[16:09] <hamitron> gord: exactly
[16:09] <hamitron> :)
[16:09]  * penguin42 fails to remember the quote from McCoy about that
[16:09] <hamitron> I'm quit IRC too, if I didn't like it here so much <3 ;)
[16:09] <hamitron> I'd*
[16:10] <hamitron> given up loads of messaging protocols
[16:10] <hamitron> never gonna use facebook
[16:10]  * funkyHat beeps at gord 
[16:10] <hamitron> also closing as many accounts as I can
[16:10] <ball> Facebook is awful.  I have to force myself to check it once a week.
[16:11] <ball> It's the only form of communication I have with most of my nieces and nephews ;-)
[16:13] <hamitron> I've found not using it, I have lost touch with a lot of lazy people
[16:14] <hamitron> I've always made the time to write xmas cards, etc. but they can't even update me with their address
[16:14] <hamitron> funny thing, they never thought the need as I "never change phone number"
[16:14] <hamitron> :D
[16:14] <hamitron> now the fools have no number
[16:15] <hamitron> they seem to change phone numbers without letting people know too
[16:16] <hamitron> unless I'm just missing announcements on facebook or something
[16:19] <jacobw> facebook == the internet :P
[16:20] <hamitron> jacobw: I shall withdraw from "the internet"
[16:20] <hamitron> :D
[16:20] <hamitron> actually, it bugs me how some adverts says to go to a facebook page
[16:20] <hamitron> to look at products
[16:20] <hamitron> there was even some news program I saw on the bbc that said to
[16:21] <hamitron> I'd expect the bbc to be capable of hosting their own pages? :/
[16:21] <gord> they can, but if its on facebook everything you click gets posted to someone elses facebook
[16:21] <hamitron> but how will it work with google+?
[16:22] <gord> getting you to go to a facebook page is not about getting you to go there, its about getting all your friends to go there
[16:22] <hamitron> surely the bbc can't favour 1 type
[16:22] <hamitron> :)
[16:22] <Pernig> lol
[16:22] <Pernig> doesn't stop them trying
[16:22] <Pernig> they all bang on about twitter
[16:23] <hamitron> it will get to the stage where each 30 min program on tv spends 5 mins relaying all the online account info to visit
[16:23] <hamitron> :/
[16:23] <hamitron> not that is bothers me, since they turned my tv off
[16:23] <hamitron> it*
[16:23] <Pernig> personally i'd rather read about things on the internet than watch tv haha
[16:23] <gord> i tried to play a video game the other month, it tried to get me to log in via facebook to play it :( nope.
[16:23] <hamitron> gord: same
[16:24] <hamitron> I just bought the King Arthur Collection also
[16:24] <hamitron> it has facebook inside the game on the title page
[16:24] <gord> a collection of king arthurs?
[16:24] <hamitron> :D
[16:25] <hamitron> http://www.amazon.co.uk/King-Arthur-Collections-PC-DVD/dp/B004X5JIAQ
[16:25] <popey> one star
[16:25] <hamitron> popey: bit harsh imo
[16:26] <hamitron> also only 1 review
[16:26] <popey> ya
[16:26] <hamitron> I'd give it 3 or 4 stars
[16:26] <hamitron> it has crashed on me once
[16:26] <hamitron> and I haven't played it that much
[16:26] <hamitron> it also uses steam
[16:26] <hamitron> :/
[16:26] <Pernig> steam i don't mind
[16:26] <Pernig> it makes it easier
[16:26] <hamitron> but the storyline is nice
[16:27] <hamitron> and the music gives the game a good feel
[16:27] <hamitron> Pernig: just worries me having online type DRM
[16:27] <Pernig> ah
[16:28] <hamitron> and Steam are willing to cut users off, like I was
[16:28] <hamitron> :/
[16:28] <Pernig> how so?
[16:28] <hamitron> so i got burnt once by steam, and know what can happen
[16:28] <hamitron> they dropped support for my OS in the steam client
[16:28] <hamitron> so i was locked out of my games collection
[16:28] <Pernig> what OS were you using? I am still on XP for games
[16:29] <hamitron> I was using Windows 98 at the time
[16:29] <hamitron> most people claim it is my own fault for using it, but the fact is, I had to buy a newer version of windows, because of steam
[16:29] <hamitron> :/
[16:30]  * funkyHat is surprised how difficult it is to find a cheap-ish low profile 1gbps PCI-E ethernet card
[16:31] <hamitron> Pernig: there wasn't so many games on steam when it happened, but I worry what will happen when MS drop XP support in the SDK steam uses.... causing XP support to be dropped
[16:31] <hamitron> Pernig: some games don't work well on versions newer than XP, and I like to play my old games :)
[16:32] <hamitron> Pernig: it is just that control over me, I don't like
[16:32] <Pernig> i see what you mean
[16:32] <Pernig> i could do with upgrading at some point
[16:32] <Pernig> but i don't really want to pay
[16:33] <Pernig> because i don't use it
[16:33] <Pernig> only for games, and tbh the only games i have played recently have been on linux
[16:34] <hamitron> well, according to the stats
[16:34] <hamitron> only 2% of steam users used win98 at the time
[16:35] <Pernig> i reckon a lot more than 2% of current steam users use XP
[16:35] <hamitron> but it shows they are willing to cut off a minority of users, even when them users have paid out for stuff
[16:35] <hamitron> Pernig: yep
[16:35] <hamitron> but think in 5 years time
[16:35] <hamitron> maybe less
[16:35] <Pernig> and we are in a situation where a lot more games have been released retrospectively on steam
[16:35] <hamitron> yeh
[16:36] <hamitron> I am hoping they don't do the same to XP, as win98
[16:36] <Pernig> games that i struggle to get working on XP
[16:36] <Pernig> i hope so too
[16:36] <hamitron> I voiced my concerns at the time
[16:36] <hamitron> and most people laughed it off
[16:37] <hamitron> tbh, you are one of the few who has actually seen my point
[16:37] <hamitron> :)
[16:37] <Pernig> i like my old games as well :P
[16:38] <hamitron> if the majority of users are happy with the continious upgrade cycle, there is a good chance they could do the same
[16:38] <hamitron> :/
[16:39] <hamitron> I've gone 98->2000->7
[16:39] <hamitron> so teh XP won't affect me tbh
[16:39] <Pernig> another thing that would bug me is i use a wii classic controller, and that can't be made to work on 64 bit windows afaik
[16:39] <hamitron> tbh, I have more time for MS than Steam
[16:40] <Pernig> i have no time for MS
[16:40] <hamitron> MS drop support, but let you continue to use the software you buy
[16:40] <Pernig> but that is mainly due to technical reasons
[16:40] <ali1234> MS are kidding themselves if they think majority of people are going to stop using XP any time in the next 5 years
[16:40] <hamitron> Steam stop you using what you buy on their say so
[16:40] <hamitron> Pernig: technical stuff wise, I agree, I hate MS for that
[16:41] <hamitron> but my windows 95 disk still installs
[16:41] <hamitron> :)
[16:41] <ali1234> i still use XP SP0
[16:41] <Pernig> ie my softraid won't work on win7
[16:41] <Pernig> but windows is the only reason i need fake raid
[16:41] <Pernig> linux picks up fakeraid even if you plug your drives into a different motherboard
[16:42] <Pernig> and of course software raid is built in
[16:42] <hamitron> :/
[16:42] <hamitron> technically MS are just useless tbh
[16:42] <hamitron> haha
[16:42] <hamitron> so many problems
[16:42] <hamitron> :/
[16:43] <hamitron> but the day they start telling me they are cutting off my copy of windows and stopping it booting, is the day I refuse to work with their stuff
[16:44] <hamitron> with steam, I buy everything on CD or DVD
[16:44] <hamitron> so hopefully one day if it is needed, it can be cracked
[16:44] <ali1234> how they going to stop windows xp from booting?
[16:44] <hamitron> ali1234: I don't think they are
[16:45] <ali1234> even if they wanted to they couldn't
[16:45] <hamitron> ali1234: I was saying if they start acting like steam, I'd refuse to use it
[16:45] <ali1234> SP0 does not require an internet connection even
[16:45] <ali1234> they could probably do it with 7, but if you use that you're a fool
[16:45] <hamitron> ty :/
[16:46] <hamitron> I got win7 for £45
[16:46] <ali1234> lol
[16:46] <ali1234> you say you wouldn't use it if they tried
[16:46] <hamitron> retail boxed
[16:46] <Pernig> i wouldn't even pay that much :P
[16:46] <ali1234> i won't even use it if there is the possibility, even if they say they won't
[16:46] <ali1234> which is why i am still on SP0
[16:46] <hamitron> ali1234: I wouldn't use any of their stuff ever again if they do ;)
[16:47] <hamitron> but EA and Steam are far more restrictive than MS with disabling of products
[16:47] <hamitron> although, I must say i don't like any of them really
[16:47] <ali1234> yes
[16:47] <hamitron> ;)
[16:47] <ali1234> that's why i'll never bu anything from either
[16:47] <ali1234> i'll play their free games but that is it
[16:48] <Pernig> i love the humble indie bundles
[16:48] <Pernig> bought all of those so far
[16:48] <hamitron> I'm trying to strike a ballance atm
[16:48]  * funkyHat has all 4 humble bundles ⢁)
[16:48] <hamitron> like any game that is download only on steam in the UK, I am getting imported
[16:48] <ali1234> i'll also never buy a PS3 or a wii or a xbox 360
[16:49] <ali1234> i don't like PC games anyway
[16:49]  * Pernig has a wii but it's more an ornament than anything
[16:49] <hamitron> ali1234: I wish I didn't like games :)
[16:49] <ali1234> the last good game that came out on console was wind waker lol
[16:49] <Pernig> http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/227496_10150260788361729_773591728_8696199_884270_n.jpg
[16:49] <hamitron> distributors just screw you many times over :/
[16:50] <ali1234> and PC has had probably 2 good games in the past 10 years
[16:50] <ali1234> and both of them involve mining
[16:50] <hamitron> mining?
[16:50] <Pernig> minecraft!
[16:50] <hamitron> eve?
[16:50] <Pernig> <3
[16:50] <Pernig> and eve i had to stop playing when i start to plan my life around it
[16:50] <hamitron> indeed
[16:50] <hamitron> haha
[16:50] <ali1234> and dorf fortress, yeah
[16:51] <ali1234> eve isn't so much a game as a complicated time wasting system
[16:51] <hamitron> I like my racing sims :)
[16:51] <hamitron> I'll give any type of game a go, but racing is what hits the spot for me
[16:56] <suprengr> hamiltron speed dating? ;)
[16:56] <hamitron> haha
[16:56] <gord> i am bad at racing games...
[16:57] <gord> they require me to use the break, screw that. the barrier on the corner is my break
[16:57] <hamitron> hehe
[16:57] <hamitron> I just don't like to be using a keyboard all the time
[16:58] <hamitron> can lay back in chair, relax in an intense online race
[16:58] <Pernig> hamitron: do you use a wheel for racing?
[16:58] <hamitron> yeh
[16:58]  * suprengr suggests using 4 wheels - better than any unicycle
[16:59] <hamitron> hehe
[16:59] <hamitron> if it wasn't for the cost and distance to places to race
[16:59] <hamitron> I'd try it irl
[17:00] <hamitron> so a sim is as close as I realistically can get to it
[17:00] <hamitron> and it is exciting and competitive online to a degree
[17:00] <Pernig> i used to love live for speed
[17:00] <hamitron> well, can be
[17:00] <hamitron> yeh, that is good
[17:00] <Pernig> you can really chuck those formula bmws about
[17:00] <hamitron> I only have the demo
[17:00] <hamitron> :/
[17:01] <Pernig> it's worth the money
[17:01]  * jacobw also likes racing games
[17:01] <hamitron> yeh, I just like physical media
[17:01] <hamitron> so i can say i got something for my money
[17:01] <hamitron> ;)
[17:01] <jacobw> ha
[17:01] <jacobw> you've got some future landfill for your money :P
[17:01] <hamitron> I'm a serious collector here
[17:01] <hamitron> ;/
[17:02] <hamitron> over 300 PC games all in "as new" condition
[17:02] <hamitron> just love looking through them
[17:02] <hamitron> and deciding what to play
[17:02] <Pernig> i am too careless with my stuff
[17:03] <Pernig> better now but as a child i used to wreck games
[17:03] <Pernig> i'm kicking myself now
[17:03] <hamitron> certain "series" I would have always bought
[17:03] <Pernig> i had the original grand prix 2 box complete with 200 odd page manual (all in english)
[17:03] <hamitron> like C&C
[17:03] <hamitron> but now the DRM has stopped me
[17:03] <hamitron> :/
[17:03] <hamitron> Pernig: I have that
[17:03] <hamitron> :)
[17:03] <gord> don't worry, the new C&C games are terrible anyway
[17:03] <Pernig> i also loved C&C until they killed it
[17:03] <Pernig> EA that is
[17:03] <hamitron> 1,2,3,3 2k addon, 4
[17:04] <hamitron> gp series that is
[17:04] <hamitron> :)
[17:04] <hamitron> gord: but it still breaks my collection
[17:04] <hamitron> :/
[17:04] <hamitron> I don't even play all the games I buy
[17:04] <gord> no, having 4 IN your collection, validifying it as part of the series, would break your collection
[17:04] <Pernig> haha
[17:05] <hamitron> :/
[17:05]  * hamitron takes #4 out
[17:05] <gord> seriously, they removed resource gathering and base building. how is that a C&C game?
[17:05] <hamitron> oh, C&C
[17:05] <hamitron> thought you meant GP4
[17:05] <hamitron> :)
[17:05] <gord> as i mentioned before, racing games are not my forte ;)
[17:05] <hamitron> the last C&C game I got as #3
[17:06] <hamitron> I not got red alert 3 because of DRM
[17:06] <hamitron> and C&C 4 there is no need to get, because I don't have them all, so won't bother
[17:08] <hamitron> so really, DRM is just making me consider not buying any PC games now
[17:08] <hamitron> and maybe work on coding some game
[17:10] <hamitron> that new Rugby game coming out this month on steam is download only
[17:10] <hamitron> :/
[17:10] <hamitron> F1 2011 is download only in the UK
[17:10] <jacobw> sports games suck
[17:10] <hamitron> so will import F1 2011
[17:11] <hamitron> jacobw: I agree mostly, but sometimes nice for a change
[17:11] <hamitron> :)
[17:11] <hamitron> I refuse to buy just racing games
[17:11] <hamitron> like to have a nice choice
[17:12] <hamitron> personally, I consider FPS over rated
[17:12] <jacobw> what do think of operation flashpoint?
[17:12] <Pernig> original one
[17:12] <Pernig> flawed but amazing all the same
[17:13] <jacobw> hmm, i'm enjoying FPS games less and less since Call Of Duty became popular :|
[17:13] <Pernig> i actually liked 2
[17:13] <jacobw> dragon rising
[17:13] <Pernig> better than arma2 thanks to the ego engine i think
[17:13]  * hamitron liked original UT
[17:13] <hamitron> ;)
[17:13] <jacobw> Counter Strike: Source was the peak of FPS games in my opinion
[17:13] <Pernig> ego has impressive physics, not a lot comes close
[17:13] <hamitron> but somehow, shooting with mouse is just not right :/
[17:14] <hamitron> I like cs:s too
[17:14] <hamitron> :)
[17:14] <jacobw> I hate perks and all that nonsense
[17:14] <ging> shooting with a mouse not right?
[17:15] <ging> would you prefer a wii controller?
[17:15] <gord> ... i don't know how i came to be watching black lace - agadoo on youtube... but well. here i am
[17:15] <hamitron> ging: I just don't compare it to shooting irl
[17:15] <jacobw> first step is acceptance :P
[17:15] <Pernig> my step dad has one of those gun grip controllers
[17:16] <Pernig> cost him an arm and a leg
[17:16] <ging> hamitron: yeah but getting shot and respawning is a lot better than in real life
[17:16] <hamitron> I just go shooting in the garden tbh
[17:16] <hamitron> not battle style ofc
[17:16] <hamitron> ;/
[17:16] <Pernig> just the neighbours' cats
[17:16] <hamitron> hehe
[17:16] <hamitron> rabbits mostly
[17:17] <gord> fyi, i own this ;) https://picasaweb.google.com/112811220238447511854/Dropbox02#5577966221612916530
[17:17] <gord> and yes, those are 3d glasses...
[17:17] <Pernig> nicee
[17:17] <hamitron> wtf is that?
[17:17] <hamitron> :D
[17:18] <gord> its a gun controller for the playstation move thing, its fun, but i keep it out of sight of anyone that comes to my house :)
[17:19] <hamitron> when I was a kid, always wanted a kit of lasor guns
[17:19] <hamitron> but most people are too lazy to actually move off a sofa
[17:19] <hamitron> :/
[17:19] <Pernig> novint falcon is the thing that my step dad has
[17:19] <Pernig> it's a strange looking thing
[17:20] <Pernig> i just have a cheap wii gun grip
[17:20] <hamitron> I got a "gun" for the NES and Duck Hunt ;)
[17:20] <Pernig> nice!
[17:21] <hamitron> them PS1 guns for Time Crisis I thought were good
[17:21] <hamitron> never managed to afford them at the time
[17:22] <hamitron> oh, Point Blank too
[17:22] <hamitron> :)
[17:24] <jacobw> TC was great
[17:25] <gord> oh right yes they have a time crisis machine at the arcade in the hotel for uds in october, i should brush up on my "mad skillz"
[17:26] <konqui> if anyone wants to join dropbox, please use my referal link http://db.tt/tKBi2bY
[17:36] <suprengr> Wow - MI6 & CIA connected old Libya nasties - I was [nearly] so surprised that I forgot I had guessed this much a long time ago!
[17:36] <penguin42> ?
[17:36] <suprengr> it's calle d politics... it's called freedom
[17:37] <suprengr> .. it;'s called other hated names by those not liking truths
[17:58] <suprengr> ok - let's try philosophy - if 'all my life's a circle'is true...  what are speed bumps for? [hums - all my life's got acne]
[17:59] <MartijnVdS> Doctor time!
[17:59] <suprengr> which channel
[17:59] <MartijnVdS> BBC 1
[17:59] <suprengr> MartijnVdS, cheers
[18:02] <matti> Oh.
[18:02] <matti> Who time.
[18:02] <matti> MartijnVdS: Thanks!
[18:08] <jacobw> they need geolocation :p
[18:09] <MartijnVdS> Lots of sleepless kids after this episode :)
[18:09] <suprengr> they need someome shouting - "it's behind you"
[18:09] <shauno> No spoilers :( im stuck in town :(
[18:11] <MartijnVdS> shauno: Written by Mark Gatiss.. and it's looking good. Won't say more :)
[18:11] <suprengr> shauno, I erfuse you're request... all the world's beautiful women strip off,  the monsters  are actually naked as well ;)
[18:11] <suprengr> ...^ as for the Dr.!!!
[18:12] <suprengr> *refuse
[18:12] <suprengr> oh btw - Amy is actually a man
[18:13] <MartijnVdS> and Rory a woman
[18:13] <suprengr> ;D
[18:13] <ali1234> how do i resize the root partitiont then?
[18:13] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: if it's ext3/4 you can grow it while it's mounted
[18:13] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: after growing the partition it's in
[18:14] <ali1234> i want to shrink it
[18:14] <MartijnVdS> otherwise, reboot with a CD containing parted
[18:14] <MartijnVdS> gparted
[18:16] <ali1234> next question, why is my mythbuntu saying "Access denied for user 'mythtv'@'localhost' (using password: YES)"
[18:16] <MartijnVdS> because the password for the "mythtv" user on localhost (in mysql) was wrong?
[18:16] <ali1234> it wasn't wrong yesterday, why would it be wrong today?
[18:17] <jacobw> !
[18:18] <suprengr> ali1234, did it assume you would change it perhaps?
[18:18] <ali1234> did what assume i would change what?
[18:19] <suprengr> myth
[18:19] <ali1234> did mythtv assume i would change the password?
[18:19] <MartijnVdS> or mysql
[18:19] <suprengr> dunno - just a thought
[18:19] <ali1234> why would they do that?
[18:19] <ali1234> maybe the DB is corrupted and i need to run the repair script
[18:20] <ali1234> i think this happened before
[18:31] <suprengr> Dr. Who sounds like me listening to a parliamentary debate "please save me from from the monsters"
[18:31] <suprengr> whoops - politics again
[18:43] <suprengr> tic toc - tic toc
[18:44] <jacobw> the next episode looks good :)
[18:44] <suprengr> yeah!
[18:44]  * jacobw sups earl grey
[18:44] <suprengr> jacobw, is a time traveller  - has seen next eposide
[18:45] <suprengr> tic toc - tic toc
[18:45] <jacobw> dang, i thought i had you all fooled :(
[18:46] <suprengr> & remember what happened to the boy eho cried [grey] wolf!
[18:46] <suprengr> *who
[18:46] <jacobw> :P
[18:46] <MartijnVdS> suprengr: not "bad wolf"? :)
[18:46] <jacobw> http://forgetomori.com/2010/fortean/time-traveler-caught-in-museum-photo/
[18:46] <jacobw> time travel hoaxes are actually quite interesting
[18:47] <suprengr> - i was being 'obtuse' - being not of this worls myself
[18:47] <suprengr> - i was being 'obtuse' - being not of this world mysel
[18:47] <suprengr> ;D
[18:48] <ali1234> that's not a time traveller, that's johnny knoxville
[18:49] <suprengr> nah!
[18:50] <diplo> evening all
[18:52] <suprengr> ali1234, I'm from another planet - you're from this planet - now which one of us is gonna win ?
[18:52] <suprengr> ;0
[18:56] <ali1234> oh i see, the mythbackend ip address changed for no reason
[18:57] <Pernig> hi diplo
[18:57] <ali1234> why speedtouch routers have to have a useless dhcp server?
[18:59] <gord> i used a speedtouch <thing> once, i never ever went near one again
[18:59] <ali1234> i need to pull out the old netgear i used to use before demon broke my connection
[19:00] <Pernig> demon are still going?!
[19:00] <hamitron> ali1234: demon fixed my connection this week btw
[19:00] <ali1234> Pernig: not really no
[19:00] <hamitron> 4 months of problems, and it all works now
[19:00] <hamitron> :)
[19:01] <ali1234> they have no UK employees except in sales afaik
[19:01] <Pernig> i think that's most ISPs in the UK haha
[19:01] <hamitron> their internet is still pretty good tbh
[19:02] <hamitron> I get a lot lower pings than most my friends
[19:03]  * Pernig 's ping is scuppered by being 25m+ away from the router :(
[19:03] <hamitron> I get about 28ms on pingtest
[19:03] <hamitron> :)
[19:03] <Pernig> 38 to google's dns server
[19:03] <Pernig> i can live with that
[19:04] <hamitron> yeh, that is fine
[19:04] <gord> pingtest isn't reeeeeally a good test is it?
[19:04] <gord> more really a measure of who is closest to their server
[19:04] <Pernig> i guess
[19:04] <Pernig> but it helps if you have a low ping for the services you use most
[19:04] <hamitron> well, I get lower pings than my friends ;/
[19:04] <gord> are your friends further away? ;)
[19:04] <hamitron> to everything in general i mean
[19:05] <Pernig> i remember when i was on blueyonder, playing counter strike etc was a dream on their own servers
[19:05] <hamitron> like my ping to american servers is 30ms faster
[19:06] <hamitron> my main complaint about demon is the monkey's on the front line of the support desk, and the slightly over priced packages
[19:06] <Pernig> 24 month contract
[19:06] <Pernig> :\
[19:06] <Pernig> and i'm guessing i would still have to pay line rental to BT
[19:06] <hamitron> I've been with them for 14 years
[19:06] <hamitron> :)
[19:07] <Pernig> i was with them in the 90s
[19:07] <Pernig> around 95-98
[19:07] <hamitron> you can either have a phone line with BT, or with Cable & Wireless
[19:07] <hamitron> C&W is a better internet package for less money
[19:07] <Pernig> i can't have cable where i am
[19:08] <hamitron> not cable
[19:08] <hamitron> just C&W telephone line
[19:08] <Pernig> and does this run through the physical BT telephone line?
[19:08] <hamitron> if C&W are in your exchange, they can use the BT line I believe
[19:08] <hamitron> but I am with BT
[19:08] <hamitron> :/
[19:09] <Pernig> i doubt they are
[19:09] <Pernig> we have no kind of LLU here
[19:09] <Pernig> it's BT or nothing
[19:09] <hamitron> we have talk talk
[19:09] <hamitron> :/
[19:09] <Pernig> obviously you can have other providers apart from BT, but it's just BT wholesale
[19:09] <hamitron> aye
[19:10] <hamitron> I refuse to use talktalk
[19:10] <hamitron> so kinda the same for me
[19:10] <hamitron> I believe sky are maybe moving into my area
[19:10] <hamitron> but their prices are only really good if get sky tv too imo
[19:11]  * Pernig agrees
[19:11] <hamitron> plus we have a business line
[19:11] <hamitron> and I'm not sure how it works
[19:11] <hamitron> unless something really good appears, sticking with BT for now
[19:11] <hamitron> :)
[19:16] <hamitron_> I broke it
[19:16] <hamitron_> ;)
[19:17]  * hamitron_ notes to not play with a vpn and its settings while talking about how pleased he is with his ISP
[19:19] <hamitron> anyone know a good service for downloading stuff and burning files to dvd, for them to mail it to you?
[19:20] <hamitron> cheap ofc
[19:20] <penguin42> amazon do that don't they on their cloud?
[19:20] <hamitron> dunno
[19:20] <slvr> if it's linuix discs you're worried about then they're plenty
[19:21] <hamitron> about half is probably linux stuff
[19:22] <ball> > half
[19:27] <slvr> (linux distros usually have mail-order discs if that's what you're looking for, though I suppose I'm not exactly answering the question)
[19:27] <hamitron> it would be better than nothing for sure
[19:28] <hamitron> but a VPS with a dvd writer would be nice
[19:28] <popey> how much are you wanting to pay?
[19:28] <hamitron> as little as possible
[19:28] <popey> and how many DVDs worth?
[19:28] <hamitron> ;)
[19:28] <hamitron> depends on cost tbh
[19:29] <hamitron> I can't even find anywhere that offers this
[19:29] <hamitron> my google skills suck
[19:29] <hamitron> :/
[19:30] <hamitron> no more than 40Gb
[19:30] <popey> I'd do it for you, I have a chunky net connection and multiple burners, but I expect you will want to pay less than cost price of the DVD
[19:30] <Pernig> it seems an odd request
[19:31] <hamitron> popey: I was looking for some automated sorta thing
[19:31] <hamitron> maybe I'm just looking for something that doesn't exist
[19:31] <TheOpenSourcerer> popey: is a machine hamitron
[19:31] <Pernig> it would be interesting if there were such a software
[19:31] <hamitron> haha
[19:32] <Pernig> personally i'd bang it on an external hard drive, with them being so cheap
[19:32] <ball> I need to buy another of those.
[19:32] <popey> evening TheOpenSourcerer
[19:32] <hamitron> I'm thinking, for downloads, so the ISP download limit is not restricting
[19:33] <hamitron> and it would also mean no slow internet from downloading
[19:33] <popey> hamitron: in low volume its likely to be quite expensive
[19:33] <popey> most of the cd duplication services work on high volumes
[19:34] <popey> googling for cd duplication service will probably turn up some options
[19:34] <hamitron> so it is
[19:34] <hamitron> :)
[19:35] <popey> http://www.a1duplication.co.uk/mastering_and_remastering.php for example
[19:35] <TheOpenSourcerer> wotcha popey - back from the West Country?
[19:35] <popey> yeah
[19:38] <MartijnVdS> wb popey
[19:40] <popey> ta
[19:40] <MartijnVdS> I wonder what my upstairs neighbor is doing
[19:40] <MartijnVdS> it sounds like a helicopter is landing up there...
[19:40] <Pernig> MartijnVdS: playing dance dance revolution?
[19:41] <MartijnVdS> Pernig: some war game more likely
[19:41] <TheOpenSourcerer> our neighbours parents must be away - kids (late teens) are having *another* party.
[19:41] <MartijnVdS> Pernig: did some "Modern Warfare" download pack come out?
[19:41] <Pernig> um
[19:42] <Pernig> quite possibly! haha
[19:52] <hamitron> I think if I just buy linux dvd, the rest can be downloaded without much worry
[19:53] <hamitron> think more of it is linux junk, than I thought
[19:53] <hamitron> :)
[19:56] <Pernig> rolling releases ftw
[19:56] <Pernig> xP
[19:56] <Pernig> probably not the channel to proclaiming things like that!
[19:58] <popey> "meh"
[20:04] <jacobw> rolling releases lack QA
[20:04] <hamitron> can't help but feel it is a bit pricey http://store.slackware.com/cgi-bin/store/slackdvdpack?id=zCLh35Ht&mv_pc=127
[20:04] <hamitron> :/
[20:04] <Pernig> ouch
[20:05] <hamitron> I'd love to have it
[20:05] <hamitron> :)
[20:05] <hamitron> just.... I dunno
[20:05] <jacobw> 'Slackware, the best 1994 has to offer' :P
[20:05] <hamitron> :/
[20:05] <Pernig> it does look a nice book
[20:05] <hamitron> haha jacobw
[20:05] <hamitron> at least it works
[20:05] <hamitron> ;/
[20:05] <hamitron> but there again, it works well on my 90s hardware
[20:05] <hamitron> ;D
[20:05] <jacobw> :)
[20:06] <hamitron> ubuntu won me over, then decided it didn't want me
[20:06] <hamitron> so suffering with the rejection
[20:07] <hamitron> go back to where I came from
[20:07] <Pernig> tried arch?
[20:07] <hamitron> arch binary packages are i686
[20:07] <Pernig> they have 64 bit too
[20:07] <hamitron> I'm on i586
[20:07] <hamitron> well, most my stuff is
[20:07] <Pernig> that's a bummer
[20:08] <Laney> how is arch the logical rolling release to choose for former ubuntu users?
[20:08] <Laney> debian :-)
[20:08] <hamitron> debian does work
[20:08] <hamitron> :)
[20:09] <hamitron> I thought centos did too, with i386 in the iso names
[20:09] <Pernig> Laney: it's not as involved as slackware
[20:09] <hamitron> 7 cd iso downloads later, and find it won't
[20:10]  * jacobw is also a fan of Debian
[20:10] <hamitron> I enjoyed my years on slackware, just not sure I can be bothered now
[20:10] <hamitron> :)
[20:11] <hamitron> and slackware is kinda modern for my tastes
[20:11] <jacobw> Ahem, modern?
[20:12] <hamitron> 2.6.37 kernel....
[20:12] <hamitron> in fact, most the stuff is current at release
[20:12] <jacobw> That's still on the old 2.6.x line :P
[20:12] <Pernig> sounds a bit old to me!
[20:12] <hamitron> hehe
[20:12] <jacobw> All the cool kids are running Linux 3 now
[20:13] <hamitron> a few of my comps still run 2.4
[20:13] <hamitron> :/
[20:13] <Azelphur> anyone here got a galaxy s2?
[20:13] <Azelphur> can you usb mount the internal storage? or do you have to get an SD card to put music and stuff on it
[20:15] <Pernig> Azelphur: i think you would be better using external storage
[20:15] <Azelphur> *shrug* it has like 12GB of internal
[20:15] <Pernig> i'm not sure then
[20:15] <Pernig> but
[20:15] <Pernig> let me ask someone who has one
[20:16] <Pernig> i was under the impression internal memory was for installing apps etc
[20:17] <Azelphur> yea that's what I'm thinking
[20:17] <jacobw> The Nexus S has 16GB of internal
[20:18]  * Pernig has a phone with only 2GB internal :(
[20:18] <hamitron> 3.6Mb
[20:18] <hamitron> :/
[20:18] <hamitron> and no phone number
[20:18] <hamitron> \o/
[20:19] <Pernig> haha!
[20:19] <nperry> Azelphur: I have the s2
[20:19] <nperry> Azelphur: When you mount, it should mount as two drives..
[20:19] <Azelphur> I see
[20:19] <nperry> Azelphur: Internal and External
[20:20] <Azelphur> I see
[20:20] <nperry> However on the android the internal is classed as the 'sdcard' under astro
[20:20] <Azelphur> so should be able to put music on it as stock?
[20:20] <nperry> and the external is called 'emc'
[20:20] <Azelphur> fun
[20:20] <nperry> Yes, infact that is where all my music/pictures are on mine.
[20:20] <Pernig> sweet
[20:20] <nperry> SD Card is there for overflow
[20:21] <jacobw> is jacob[at]slothmagic[dot]co[dot]uk a professional email address?
[20:21] <webpigeon> slothmagic?
[20:21] <jacobw> yes
[20:21] <webpigeon> could be worse
[20:22] <Pernig> if it's your company, then go for it
[20:22] <Azelphur> nperry: cool ty :)
[20:22] <jacobw> its not, its just because i like sloths
[20:22] <Pernig> fair enough!
[20:22] <Azelphur> azelphur[at]azelphur.com best email address evar
[20:22] <Azelphur> true story :p
[20:22] <Pernig> just boring googlemail here
[20:22] <hamitron> jacobw: I think you'd be better buying my domain off me for an extremely high price
[20:22] <webpigeon> Azelphur, I'm sure i can find some spam sites that would agree ;)
[20:23] <jacobw> hamitron: i'm sure we can come to an arrangement :P
[20:23] <Azelphur> webpigeon: shoo, also gmail anti spam will save me :D
[20:23] <jacobw> have you got awesome.co.uk?
[20:23] <hamitron> no :/
[20:23] <jacobw> ;)
[20:24] <Pernig> i have a domain but don't use the email for it
[20:24] <hamitron> I have all mail from it forwarded, but never used it
[20:24] <Pernig> there is a chance colleagues/friends/family etc might stumble upon my blog and see things written about them
[20:24] <jacobw> hmm, that's a worry
[20:25] <jacobw> i'm writing a CV and i don't want to come across as strange
[20:25] <hamitron> no chance then ;)
[20:25] <Pernig> you can always forward your mail to your slothmagic account
[20:25] <hamitron> the brain warps when spending time in here
[20:25] <Pernig> mine is forwarded to google mainly for the push mail, battery saving on phone etc
[20:26] <hamitron> atm I can't decide if to put all my trust into google, or host my own stuff
[20:26] <hamitron> :/
[20:27] <jacobw> i've been stuck on that decision for months hamitron
[20:27] <hamitron> same
[20:27] <jacobw> i'm paranoid of the cloud
[20:27] <hamitron> I've turned paranoid of the web
[20:27] <Pernig> i kind of sold my soul to them when i bought the best phone ever and though what the hell
[20:27] <hamitron> haha
[20:27] <Pernig> *best phone i've ever had rather
[20:28] <hamitron> I just feel like deleting as much as I can, and not appearing anywhere
[20:28] <jacobw> i don't use facebook or gmail out of paranoia
[20:28] <hamitron> I'd miss google docs
[20:28] <hamitron> :/
[20:29] <jacobw> never let pictures of myself online etc
[20:29] <hamitron> same
[20:29] <jacobw> though i keep appearing in photos taken at events
[20:29] <jacobw> usually because i'm the only one wearing bright yellow or something
[20:29] <Pernig> just as likely to appear in the paper or something
[20:30] <hamitron> I don't really go out much since the smoking ban tbh
[20:30] <hamitron> only work related
[20:31] <jacobw> smoking is the leading cause of smug non-smokers :P
[20:31] <hamitron> I don't even smoke
[20:31] <hamitron> ;/
[20:31] <jacobw> neither do i, but i don't care that people do.
[20:32] <hamitron> me neither
[20:32] <hamitron> but i do care if I have to freeze my bits off, standing outside while others smoke
[20:32] <hamitron> :D
[20:32] <jacobw> ah i see
[20:33] <hamitron> but I know with most I know, the smoking ban means they just stay at home with a few mates, and abuse drugs instead
[20:33] <hamitron> :/
[20:33] <hamitron> so it probably hasn't helped their health a great deal
[20:34] <hamitron> and I know the lack of partying has certainly made life very boring
[20:35] <hamitron> I'm tempted to start smoking a pipe on my motorbike
[20:35] <hamitron> :D
[20:36] <hamitron> just to make a point
[20:36] <Pernig> about the most daredevil i thing i do on the bike is put one hand on the tank :P
[20:37] <hamitron> I ride without a helmet sometimes
[20:37] <hamitron> but not one for loads of stunts or stupid riding
[20:38] <Pernig> i  think i would still wear a lid if i didn't have to
[20:38] <hamitron> same
[20:38] <Pernig> mainly for the comfort of having something stopping the wind hitting your face
[20:38] <hamitron> too cold most of the time
[20:38] <hamitron> ;/
[20:38] <jacobw> it'd be crazy not to
[20:38] <Pernig> they also keep your head dry
[20:38] <hamitron> oh, I have open face helmet
[20:38] <hamitron> :)
[20:38] <Pernig> flip front here
[20:38] <hamitron> I like the wind in my face, with flying goggles
[20:39] <hamitron> it makes it feel faster
[20:39] <Pernig> the novelty wore off for me
[20:39] <hamitron> so i don't speed as much
[20:39]  * hamitron a good boy
[20:39] <hamitron> ;)
[20:40] <hamitron> I think I still have a great big grin most times I set off on my bike
[20:40] <hamitron> :/
[20:41] <hamitron> all stress just leaves my body
[20:41] <hamitron> brb, coffee
[20:45] <hamitron> oh yes
[20:45] <hamitron> and raspberries and cream
[20:45] <hamitron> :D
[20:50] <jacobw> party at hamitron's house!
[20:51] <jacobw> i've eaten so much stir fry i think i'm going to explode :s
[20:51] <hamitron> :/
[20:51] <hamitron> it would be "bring your own cream"
[20:52] <jacobw> i can't believe i've never written a CV before :|
[20:52] <hamitron> I only got 1 pot
[20:52] <hamitron> me neither actually
[20:52] <hamitron> :D
[20:53] <xr112> hi, n e one kno how to get a bitcoin miner working on ubuntu 11.04?
[20:53] <hamitron> the few jobs I've gone for, had detailed application forms
[20:53] <Azelphur> !english | xr112
[20:53] <hamitron> xr112: Azelphur does
[20:53] <hamitron> ;)
[20:53] <Azelphur> aww, what happened to the factoid that rants about n e 1 u r language.
[20:53] <jacobw> xr112: #bitcoin
[20:54] <hamitron> !english | Azelphur
[20:54] <hamitron> :D
[20:54] <Azelphur> hamitron: shoo :P
[20:54] <hamitron> what is "n e 1 u r"?
[20:54] <hamitron> :/
[20:55] <xr112> Azelphur: Sorry Sir, wnt hppen gain k?
[20:55] <xr112> ;)
[20:55] <jacobw> hehe
[20:55] <webpigeon> o.O
[20:55]  * Azelphur cries
[20:55] <jacobw> there there
[20:56] <webpigeon> Azelphur, r u k? :P *hides*
[20:56] <hamitron> xr112: iirc, you need to install the AMD/ATI SDK if using some Radeon card
[20:56] <hamitron> then just install the miner
[20:56] <xr112> im using Nvidia card
[20:56] <hamitron> then imo, it is silly bitcoin mining
[20:57] <hamitron> :D
[20:57] <Azelphur> ^
[20:57] <Azelphur> nvidia + bitcoin = you are now spending more on electricity than you are earning
[20:57] <xr112> yh I guess but I only found out about it today, jst wanted to see what it was all about
[20:57] <hamitron> well, it would be cheaper to buy some bitcoins
[20:57] <hamitron> :/
[20:58] <xr112> Yh, they seem to be going up in value
[20:58] <hamitron> not recently
[20:58] <webpigeon> one day, it will become too expenstive to calcuate the hashes, on this date botnet owers are the only people who will be doing it
[20:58] <jacobw> they're decreasing in value
[20:59] <jacobw> its a deflationary currency
[20:59] <hamitron> but I know my Geforce GTS450 makes about 0.02 coins per day
[20:59] <hamitron> jacobw: technically they should increase over time
[20:59] <jacobw> 50 days/bitcoin
[20:59] <webpigeon> hamitron, i'm assuming that's on average
[20:59] <hamitron> but the current price is overly inflated :/
[21:00] <hamitron> webpigeon: the botnet arguement is not something I have considered
[21:00] <hamitron> :)
[21:00] <hamitron> interesting idea tbh
[21:00] <xr112> but surely the harder they become to calcuate, the more valuable there become?
[21:01] <webpigeon> xr112, not really, when it costs more to get them then they are worth there is no incentive
[21:01] <hamitron> xr112: maybe, if they are worth less than they cost to make, a lot of people stop mining and the difficulty can decrease also
[21:02] <xr112> yh I guess so
[21:02] <hamitron> there are ofc different ways to look at it
[21:02] <webpigeon> hamitron, are you sure? I thought the difficaulty only increased
[21:02] <hamitron> :)
[21:02] <hamitron> webpigeon: no, it can go down too
[21:02] <hamitron> in fact, last time it did
[21:03] <hamitron> I'm guessing, because a lot of nvidia users stopped mining
[21:03] <webpigeon> that makes 4 possible attack vectors then :P
[21:03] <jacobw> xr112: http://old.linuxoutlaws.com/podcast/215
[21:03] <hamitron> webpigeon: have you seen namecoin recently?
[21:03] <webpigeon> I haven'y
[21:03] <webpigeon> haven't
[21:03] <jacobw> linux outlaws' bitcoin discussion
[21:04] <hamitron> loads of people jumped on it at the start, making a large difficulty
[21:04] <hamitron> and then stopped mining
[21:04] <xr112> jacobw: thanks
[21:04] <jacobw> quantum computing will blow bitcoin mining out of the water :P
[21:04] <hamitron> so it now takes about 10 hours to move the namecoins, rather than 1
[21:04] <hamitron> :/
[21:04] <webpigeon> jacobw, where i heard that they didn't decrease in difficaulty but fabsh is known to be wrong on occation :P
[21:05] <hamitron> bitcoin actually collapsed before the latest hype, if you look at the graph
[21:05] <popey> webpigeon: it can decrease
[21:05] <webpigeon> popey, thanks :)
[21:05] <popey> also
[21:06] <popey> fab is often wrong
[21:06] <hamitron> meh, people only believe popey :/
[21:06] <webpigeon> popey, i didn't say it... :P
[21:06] <popey> but I have unsubscribed from all his social media channels because his wrongness gets on my tits
[21:06] <hamitron> :D
[21:06] <webpigeon> oh dear :P
[21:07] <jacobw> he's often wrong
[21:07] <jacobw> oh
[21:07] <hamitron> I think bitcoin will collapse, or gradually decrease for a while
[21:07] <jacobw> popey beat me to it
[21:07] <hamitron> :/
[21:07] <webpigeon> jacobw, popeyV2.0
[21:08] <jacobw> i'll never have sideburns :P
[21:08] <hamitron> as things are, the price is about double of the electricity cost in the UK, if using good cards for it
[21:08] <popey> haha
[21:08] <popey> SIDEBURNS OF POWERRRRRR!
[21:08] <hamitron> :)
[21:08] <jacobw> :)
[21:08] <czajkowski> hmm new empathy logo looks odd
[21:08] <hamitron> I've just lost a full beard
[21:08] <hamitron> \o/
[21:09] <hamitron> so i iz weak
[21:09] <webpigeon> hamitron, use popey's sideburns for power apprently...
[21:09] <hamitron> :/
[21:09] <czajkowski> new software centre logo looks.........well not what I'd expect for an app store
[21:09] <jacobw> where did you last have it? :P
[21:09] <popey> czajkowski: pic?
[21:09] <jacobw> i haven't tried oneiric yet
[21:10]  * popey boots oneiric
[21:10] <xr112> hamitron: I wont bother with it then lol
[21:10] <czajkowski> 1 tic
[21:10] <jacobw> i don't think its difficult to spell either
[21:10] <hamitron> jacobw: I believe it was in the bathroom.... it must have run off with the fright of soap
[21:10] <hamitron> xr112: it is certainly interesting to look at
[21:10] <czajkowski> if things would stop hanging and crashing
[21:10] <jacobw> hehe
[21:11] <popey> :D
[21:11] <czajkowski> had a lot of regression errors
[21:11] <hamitron> xr112: very interesting in fact.... a lot to look into.
[21:11] <czajkowski> plus other stuff just won't_work
[21:11] <jacobw> xr112: the economics are fascinating
[21:11] <xr112> hamitron: you can jst donation me some coins ;)
[21:11] <jacobw> (i know 'fascinating' a geeky word)
[21:11] <Azelphur> I still have 100BTC :P
[21:11] <hamitron> I cash mine in every few days
[21:11] <Azelphur> waiting for prices to go up :D
[21:11] <hamitron> :/
[21:12] <hamitron> Azelphur: could send me 10 btc to "practise" with xr?
[21:12] <hamitron> ;)
[21:12] <Azelphur> lol
[21:12] <xr112> lol
[21:12] <Azelphur> been farming solo for ages now still havn't found anything though :(
[21:13] <hamitron> if I had more cards, I would
[21:13] <hamitron> :/
[21:13] <czajkowski> popey: http://twitpic.com/6flgvc
[21:13] <popey> ta
[21:13] <popey> i love them both
[21:13] <hamitron> hmmmm
[21:14] <hamitron> is it just my dirty mind ehre? ;/
[21:14] <czajkowski> annoying I can see I have gwibber messages
[21:14] <czajkowski> but it won't flippping launch
[21:16] <jacobw> i like the emapthy icon but i don't like software centre icon
[21:17] <hamitron> imo it doesn't look good having 2 orange icons near each other, and 2 blue
[21:17] <hamitron> :/
[21:17] <hamitron> but I dunno what the colours mean :)
[21:18] <webpigeon> they have meanings?
[21:18] <hamitron> I dunno
[21:18]  * hamitron is on 10.04
[21:18] <hamitron> with lxde
[21:18] <webpigeon> I'm ok 15 with shell so i can't really comment :P
[21:19] <hamitron> ok 15?
[21:19] <webpigeon> Fedora
[21:19] <hamitron> how does "ok" mean Fedora?
[21:20] <hamitron> :/
[21:20] <ali12341> there's a very simple fix for those icon problems
[21:20] <hamitron> ali12341: remove unity?
[21:20] <ali12341> remove software centre, ubuntu one, and empathy, because they are all garbage
[21:20] <hamitron> ;/
[21:20] <brobostigon> ok, is ubuntu, amazing is debian unstable.
[21:20] <brobostigon> eek,. sporry.
[21:20] <brobostigon> :(
[21:20] <webpigeon> hamitron, i'm on fedora, hence the 15
[21:20] <brobostigon> woops.
[21:21] <webpigeon> heyoo brobostigon
[21:21] <brobostigon> helo webpigeon
[21:21] <hamitron> tbh, I liked fedora when i tried it
[21:21] <hamitron> felt snappy
[21:21] <webpigeon> I like the OS, i perfer the ubuntu people
[21:21] <ali12341> also, why do people use empathy and then use some terminal app for irc?
[21:21] <Pernig> i had to do too many workarounds with fedora
[21:22] <webpigeon> ali12341, because empathy is pretty bad for irc?
[21:22] <Pernig> ali12341: empathy isn't very feature rich, especially for irc
[21:22] <jacobw> screen?
[21:22] <ali12341> considering that IRC and IM are exactly the same thing, that means empathy is pretty bad at it's main feature
[21:22] <brobostigon> ali12341: atm, irssi + bitlbee, is mostly perfect.
[21:22] <Pernig> i actually got on with empathy very well
[21:23] <Pernig> keeping it simple worked well for me
[21:23] <ali12341> brobostigon: exactly. if you like using the terminal so much, why don't you use bitlbee for everything?
[21:23] <ali12341> otoh, if you like empathy except for the irc client, why don't you just use pidgin?
[21:23] <ali12341> empathy basically pleases no one
[21:23] <ali12341> well, perhaps people who do not use irc
[21:24] <brobostigon> ali12341: it cant do everything, issue 1. really,, unless you use a plugin for pidgin's backend.
[21:24] <Pernig> if it had more features i think it would be about bang on
[21:24] <hamitron> I like pidgin
[21:24] <hamitron> :)
[21:24] <ali12341> if empathy had more features you means?
[21:24] <webpigeon> ali12341, I like empathy, i just don't think that you can use the same kind of design for group chat that you do with 1:1 chat
[21:24] <ali12341> you can
[21:24] <ali12341> this is obvious
[21:24] <Pernig> ali12341: yes
[21:25] <ali12341> webpigeon: what it actually means is that group chat exposes the flaws in empathy's UI design
[21:25] <webpigeon> okay, I'll rephrase, *I* don't think *I* can use the same kind of design for the two
[21:25] <ali12341> they are still flaws even when you are in 1:1 chat though
[21:25] <ali12341> they are just slightly less annoying
[21:25] <Pernig> i kind of wish i could have irc in kopete
[21:25] <webpigeon> ali12341, I'm okay with the 1:1 chat design, for me it works with empathy and the things which telepathy enables are worth it
[21:25] <ali12341> for example, putting everything everyone types in a huge speech bubble grahic totally sucks when you are on #ubuntu and it is scrolling at 100 lines per minute
[21:25] <ali12341> but that sucks just as much in 1:1
[21:26] <brobostigon> ali12341: no, but pidgins backends adds more prtotcols to bitlbee, but makes it massivly more heavier.
[21:26] <webpigeon> I've never had an issue with that...
[21:26]  * hamitron looks at ali12341's lines per min
[21:26] <hamitron> ;)
[21:26] <ali12341> the main thing i don't like with emapthy is the way it renders text
[21:27] <brobostigon> i do like thoguh, how empathy integreates with gnome-shell.
[21:27] <ali12341> like so many poor html renderers, pretty much any two lines will have a different height
[21:27] <webpigeon> doesn't it use the gnome font rendering stack? :/
[21:27] <webpigeon> brobostigon++
[21:28] <brobostigon> that is when, empathy decides to behave, :)
[21:28] <hamitron> tbh, empathy just confused me
[21:28] <hamitron> so went to xchat
[21:28] <hamitron> ;/
[21:28] <ali12341> well i like how pidgin integrates with unity
[21:28] <webpigeon> I use xchat for irc, hamitron
[21:29] <brobostigon> hamitron: empathy for IM, and xchat for irc, you cant compare, they are totally differentthingd.
[21:29] <ali12341> xchat is ugly
[21:29] <brobostigon> and how can xchat do IM, without bitlbee, or similer?
[21:29] <hamitron> tbh, comp programs really turn me on ;/
[21:29] <ali12341> less ugly than empathy, but still ugly
[21:29] <Pernig> i didn't think about xchat when i switched desktop env
[21:29] <webpigeon> ali12341, programs are like people - it's not all about the looks
[21:29] <hamitron> no comp*
[21:29] <Pernig> might give that a go
[21:29] <hamitron> eek
[21:30] <Pernig> using konversation, it seems alright
[21:30] <hamitron> I use pidgin for IM
[21:30] <hamitron> no questions asked
[21:30] <hamitron> :)
[21:30] <ali12341> pretty much all an IM client has to do is receive messages and present them on the screen
[21:30] <ali12341> and provide a way to reply
[21:31] <webpigeon> ali12341, video confrencing integration is nice to
[21:31] <hamitron> video? :|
[21:31] <webpigeon> 1:1 that is
[21:31] <ali12341> there is no great distinction between IM, IRC, and twitter
[21:31] <Pernig> a lot of my friends used to Windows miss the features of MSN
[21:31] <ali12341> they all work exactly the same
[21:31] <Pernig> not that i condone MSN
[21:31] <Pernig> WLM whatever they call it now
[21:31] <webpigeon> hamitron, indeed, empathy supports webcam features
[21:31] <Pernig> what an ugly piece of software
[21:31] <ali12341> and video conferencing never works anyway
[21:31] <hamitron> I got a 360kbit connection here, not tried
[21:31] <hamitron> ;)
[21:32] <ali12341> i have a phone for making phone calls. it support voip
[21:32] <ali12341> like i said yesterday, i do not like talking to computer
[21:32] <webpigeon> If i phoned everyone i talked to i would have massive international call charges :P
[21:32] <Pernig> i have one friend in particular who goes mad when he can't send me files over the MSN protocol
[21:32] <ali12341> unless you used voip
[21:32] <Pernig> not that i would ever get them, coming in at 5KB/s :P
[21:33] <webpigeon> Pernig, i've heard of this really cool thing, it's called email :P
[21:33] <gord> kinda sucks that its 2011 and there is still not a good, well accepted way of transfering files from one person to another that works everywhere
[21:33] <Pernig> webpigeon: exactly!
[21:33] <jacobw> Upload to a web server :|
[21:33] <hamitron> or dropbox
[21:33] <hamitron> or google docs
[21:33] <webpigeon> or bittorrent :P
[21:34] <hamitron> torrents are hard
[21:34] <hamitron> :/
[21:34] <ali12341> NO
[21:34] <Pernig> i think torrents are in their infancy still
[21:34] <ali12341> only MSN file transfer is broken
[21:34] <Pernig> there is so much that could be done with torrents that hasn't been done yet
[21:34] <ali12341> because microsoft deliberately broke it for third party clients
[21:34] <ali12341> file transfer over other protocols works
[21:34] <Pernig> ali12341: they do that a lot
[21:34] <webpigeon> ali12341, if you follow the TOS correctly, there shouldn't be any 3rd party clients
[21:35] <hamitron> MS can get away with it, all the users who choose to use MSN are on MS Windows
[21:35] <hamitron> :/
[21:35] <ali12341> i don't know anyone who still uses MSN anyway, so i don't care
[21:35] <Pernig> this is one _good_ thing about Facebook
[21:35]  * hamitron spanks Pernig 
[21:35] <Pernig> a lot more users are using FB chat rather than MSN now
[21:35] <hamitron> there is nothing good from that _thing_
[21:35] <webpigeon> now if we're looking for messaging systems which are a mess, facebook wins
[21:35] <ali12341> yes, the one and only good thing about facebook is it keeps all those people off the rest of the internet
[21:35] <Pernig> and while it might be a horrible in browser thing for them
[21:35] <jacobw> i don't know anyone who uses MSN :|
[21:36] <hamitron> ali12341: haha, like that
[21:36] <Pernig> it's simple XMPP which works nicely for us! :P
[21:36] <Pernig> jacobw: it was kind of the defacto standard as i was growing up
[21:36] <jacobw> you still have to have a facebook account to use it
[21:36] <ali12341> i'm getting really tired of hearing about "what google needs to do to attract facebook users"
[21:36] <webpigeon> Pernig, kind of, the only problem is sometimes it's an IM and sometimes it's... not :/
[21:37] <webpigeon> ali12341, what it needs to do is put them in a bit hole and leave them there
[21:37] <jacobw> Pernig: same for me, but i never got in to using it, and people i know who used to use it don't use it anymore
[21:37] <hamitron> google needs to slow down and get things right on launch for a cahnge :/
[21:37] <hamitron> change*
[21:37] <jacobw> Pernig: they all use facebook now, which i've also never gotten in to using
[21:37] <ali12341> they should make google- and just let people spam it up with games and pokes and stuff
[21:37] <ali12341> and keep it as far away from + as possible
[21:37] <hamitron> haha
[21:37] <jacobw> hehe
[21:37] <Pernig> lol google-
[21:37] <Pernig> i love it!
[21:38] <jacobw> i'm undecided on whether to accept an invite to google+
[21:38] <hamitron> can't we have google+ for the crap, and google- for proper people?
[21:38] <webpigeon> If i see one more, "repost this or [thing]" in my news feed things are going to explode :/
[21:38] <Pernig> jacobw: it's worth a punt
[21:38] <jacobw> i have no use for it :| other than as some sort of linkedin emulator
[21:38] <jacobw> not that i have a linkedin profile
[21:38] <Pernig> don't you have to pay for linkedin?
[21:38] <hamitron> I signed up to google+ and just don't get it tbh
[21:39] <webpigeon> Pernig, only 90% of the features...
[21:39] <Pernig> anyone in Lincolnshire here?
[21:40] <ali12341> g+ is more like twitter without the character limit than it is like facebook
[21:40] <Pernig> twitter, something i never did try
[21:40] <hamitron> Pernig: I'm near Hull
[21:40] <ali12341> pidgin has a plugin which makes twitter exactly the same as irc
[21:41] <hamitron> haha
[21:41] <Pernig> hamitron: are you in any LUGs?
[21:41] <hamitron> imagine how big the twit page will be if this was it :)
[21:41] <hamitron> Pernig: no
[21:41] <webpigeon> ali12341, there is an irc/jabber server which does that to...
[21:42] <Pernig> we are looking to reinvigorate ours at the moment, but it's in Lincoln, maybe a bit far for you
[21:42] <Pernig> there is a Hull LUG though
[21:42] <hamitron> Hull is a little too far tbh
[21:42] <hamitron> I'm North of Hull
[21:42] <Pernig> ah
[21:43] <Pernig> Hull isn't nice anyway, haha
[21:43] <hamitron> I like Hull tbh
[21:43] <hamitron> :D
[21:43] <Pernig> not been for a while
[21:43] <hamitron> it has gone down lately tbh
[21:43] <Pernig> i like the Deep :P
[21:44] <hamitron> I found it.... too much for kiddies
[21:44] <hamitron> :/
[21:44] <hamitron> and they had the Union Jack upside down
[21:44] <hamitron> :(
[21:44] <Pernig> is that the time?
[21:45] <Pernig> unproductive evening :(
[21:45] <hamitron> :/
[21:45] <hamitron> a weekend
[21:45] <webpigeon> hamitron, are they in distress?
[21:45] <hamitron> we can be forgiven
[21:45] <Pernig> aye
[21:45] <Pernig> i have a busy week next week
[21:45] <Pernig> new job
[21:45] <hamitron> :/
[21:45] <hamitron> webpigeon: shouldn't be, the fee they get for people entering
[21:46] <Pernig> i think it's a bit like the bridge
[21:46] <Pernig> it cost so much money, and now they have to pay for it
[21:46] <Pernig> :P
[21:46] <hamitron> main problem with the bridge, it goes nowhere
[21:46] <hamitron> ;)
[21:47] <Pernig> at least the A18 beneath it avoids the monstrosities that are Immingham and Grimsby
[21:47] <hamitron> you start in Hull of all places, then end up at a Marshland, with the main attraction been Grimsby :/
[21:47] <hamitron> yeh
[21:47] <hamitron> haha
[21:48] <hamitron> but I'd just go via Selby
[21:48] <hamitron> ;/
[21:48] <jacobw> i had to go to immingham this week :(
[21:48] <Pernig> nice roads that way
[21:49]  * jacobw lives in Leeds
[21:49] <Pernig> you come out of Goole and it's like BAM
[21:49]  * hamitron comforts jacobw 
[21:49] <Pernig> there's this completely empty road
[21:50] <hamitron> I think the country ends at Hull on the maps, and the East Riding does not exist on paper
[21:50] <hamitron> nobody comes
[21:50] <hamitron> :D
[21:51] <Pernig> kind of similar where i am
[21:51] <hamitron> yeh, apart from you are from the South
[21:51] <hamitron> :)
[21:52] <jacobw> i was in scotter in lincolnshire also this week
[21:52] <jacobw> confirms my suspicion that there's nothing in lincolnshire
[21:52] <funkyHat> I didn't even know Hull was on the map ;)
[21:52] <hamitron> haha funkyHat
[21:52] <jacobw> hull/hell
[21:53] <hamitron> ofc it is, it the hole you try to never come to
[21:53] <hamitron> if you get there, it all ends
[21:53] <Pernig> Scotter is only just Lincolnshire haha
[21:53] <hamitron> :/
[21:53] <Pernig> it's a big old county
[21:53] <Pernig> we are struggling to organise the LUG because it's so big and so sparsely populated
[21:54] <hamitron> it is hard in rural areas
[21:54] <hamitron> :/
[21:54] <hamitron> I keep thinking my area could do with one
[21:54] <hamitron> but based on IRC more, with less regular meetings
[21:55]  * Laney was in the east riding last week
[21:55] <hamitron> Laney: enjoy? ;/
[21:55] <Laney> yeah i quite like it
[21:55] <jacobw> the countryside is nice
[21:55] <Pernig> me too
[21:55] <hamitron> yeh, it is nice tbh
[21:55] <Pernig> i love riding through it
[21:56] <hamitron> but not great for stuff like LUG
[21:56] <Laney> biked from near beverley to brid
[21:56] <Laney> via driffield :(
[21:56] <hamitron> I do that 5 or 6 times per week :/
[21:57] <hamitron> Laney: why the unhappy face
[21:57] <hamitron> :/
[21:58] <Laney> didn't seem like the nicest of towns
[21:58] <hamitron> it isn't
[21:58] <hamitron> haha
[21:58] <Laney> they should pedestrianise that main street
[21:58] <Laney> well, make it motor traffic free
[21:59] <hamitron> it would be tough to direct traffic then though
[21:59] <hamitron> :/
[21:59] <hamitron> it has gone downhill since the cattlemarket was closed
[22:00] <hamitron> I try avoid it
[22:01] <Laney> http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10100153190453898.2589628.199700154&l=1d1f3f563c&type=1
[22:02] <Pernig> i'm not sure i'd cope with drop bars
[22:02] <Pernig> the flat drag bars i have annoy me enough
[22:02] <funkyHat> drop bars are awesome
[22:02] <hamitron> Laney: oh, you used the new cycle route
[22:02] <hamitron> :/
[22:02] <funkyHat> Especially with newer brake levers. About a million different places you can hold them
[22:02] <Pernig> Laney: how small does your tent pack down?
[22:02] <Pernig> isn't that the one that the scouts use?
[22:03] <Pernig> the type should i say
[22:03] <Laney> it's a pretty old ridge tent
[22:03] <Laney> poles went inside the rollmat and the canvas went small into a pannier
[22:03] <Pernig> so you manage ok with it on the pushbike?
[22:03] <hamitron> I love Hole of Horcum
[22:03] <hamitron> try go once a month
[22:04] <Laney> deffo
[22:04] <Pernig> i might take a look at one for the motorbike, i considered them but was under the impression they were massive when folded down
[22:04] <Laney> the A road at the hole is mental
[22:04] <hamitron> yeh
[22:04] <hamitron> :)
[22:04] <hamitron> but the walks into and around the hole are worth it
[22:05] <hamitron> that round-a-bout at pickering I find the worst :/
[22:05] <Laney> we went up at thornton
[22:10] <brobostigon> nos da, schlaf gut, o/
[23:02] <ball> Seeing #bbs just reminded me to check my netmail.
[23:06] <penguin42> your what?
[23:08] <ball> penguin42: Fidonet's equivalent of email, basically.
[23:08] <Azelphur> having a fun issue, anything i do hangs
[23:08] <penguin42> ball: Sorry, it's 2011 isn't it?
[23:08] <ball> penguin42: I hadn't noticed ;-)
[23:08] <Azelphur> touch a, hangs, iotop, hangs, sudo reboot now, hangs
[23:09] <penguin42> ball :Wow I really hadn't realised fidonet still existed
[23:09] <Azelphur> the machine is still responsive just anything i do hangs
[23:09] <Azelphur> suggestions?
[23:09] <ball> penguin42: barely
[23:09] <ball> Azelphur: Has your hard disk failed?
[23:09] <Azelphur> not that i know of
[23:10] <Pernig> ball: Azelphur: also had this symptom as the result of a failed hard drive
[23:10] <Azelphur> fun
[23:10] <Azelphur> guess ill try magic reisub :p
[23:10] <Pernig> not to jump to conclusions, but if it does prove to be that, it might be that there's a loose SATA connector or something
[23:10] <Pernig> they're not the most robust of connectors
[23:10] <Azelphur> hehe
[23:11] <ball> Pernig: They're horrid cheap little things.
[23:11] <ball> I don't believe in 'em.
[23:12] <Pernig> ball: indeed
[23:12] <Pernig> i've had more success with the ones with a metal release lever
[23:13] <Pernig> bedtime for me
[23:13] <Pernig> nn everyone
[23:13] <ball> brb, sarnie
[23:13] <ball> goodnight Pernig
[23:59] <gord> kinda crazy how much you have to download just to update sometimes