[15:01] hi [15:01] hi [15:08] wheres loudbot [15:24] Triangle Area Ubuntu Global Jam team is now online [15:26] XMUNAD\ [15:48] * Nivex waves [15:56] * billf takes a photo [16:31] why is glade (quickly gui desgner) so difficult to use ? [16:32] because GUI design is a pain in the butt? === kite is now known as jdriselvato [17:15] mhall119: what are you doing up here? [17:15] >.> [17:15] you should be in flordia [17:15] erm, florida [17:16] * paultag waves to holstein, akgraner, jdriselvato [17:16] How's the Jam? [17:17] needs more sugar. or truvia, your pick. [17:17] BugeyeD: :) [17:17] We haven't fixed a bug yet. Just communicating. [17:18] you don't have to fix anything - breaking stuff is just as useful :) [17:18] whats wrong with flux paultag? [17:18] jdriselvato: nothing :) [17:18] jdriselvato: why do you ask? [17:18] * BugeyeD has been trying to unbreak his car all morning. not feeling very useful. [17:19] BugeyeD: :( [17:19] Nothing just that you said you had fluxbox work [17:19] jdriselvato: Oh yeah, I'm adding in some XDG Autostarting, and I've been meaning to rewrite the parser using a stateful model [17:20] but that's not mainlined yet, I'm not happy with it [17:20] it's parsing comments super well right now!! :) [17:21] Ah. Oh i showed a co-worker that Endian C code yesterday. Took him 30 minutes with a little hints from me. But he really liked it. [17:21] jdriselvato: oh that cute little program-let? :) [17:21] brought a smile to his face.. hah. [17:21] 3 line beast? [17:21] jdriselvato: yeah it's fun, I like those little clever puzzles [17:22] As do i. I have 3 more of yours. I need to get back to figure those out. [17:22] :) [17:33] paultag: I'm always here [17:33] mhall119: why? :) [17:33] same reason as you [17:33] mhall119: I came over to find someone @ the jam to embarass jdriselvato [17:33] mhall119: I did not know you knew jdriselvato [17:33] mhall119: small world [17:33] Why paultag .... [17:35] jdriselvato: this is how I have my fun [17:36] .. duh? [17:36] paultag: one day i'll do that same thing to you. but instead of people knowing me, i'll make you look like a fool because no one would. :D [17:37] jdriselvato: please do :) [17:37] Well i need to switch to ubuntu i'll be back in 5 [17:37] kk [17:47] paultag: ok, so maybe not the same reason [17:48] mhall119: thought so :) [17:55] mhall119: do you know C++? === kite is now known as jdriselvato [19:31] paultag: in theory I do [19:32] mhall119: could you do a theoretical review of some code after it's warm and gooey? All my peer fluxers are on vacation (literally, all of them) [19:34] is it beginner's C++, or advanced super-hacker stuff? [19:35] mhall119: it's on the simple end of advanced-ish. Nothing too crazy [19:36] I'll be happy to take a look, but if I don't feel comfortable I'll let you know [19:36] mhall119: sure, thanks :) [19:36] mhall119: I just need to make sure I'm avoiding stupid things [19:44] well it's C++, so.... [19:45] mhall119: I can't assume the user has python installed [19:45] or perl [19:45] which would be the only clean-er solutions [19:46] paultag: perl vs python? [19:47] jdriselvato: they're different tools :) [19:48] Alright. Perl vs Python for system administrating.... [19:49] What is so different? [19:49] paultag: ? [19:49] are you in NC? [19:50] holstein: no, sorry. I came here to get akgraner to pick jdriselvato out of the crowd and make him stand up or something [19:50] holstein: and kinda got carried away with everyone [19:50] holstein: but hi :) [19:50] Perl and python can both do web-dev, perl and python can both do great system administrating scripts. [19:51] paultag: hehe [19:51] What can perl/python do that the other can't? [19:51] jdriselvato: perl is much better with handling text, python is easier to maintain and extend [19:52] So just depends on what the situation is. Like all languages paultag [19:52] always. They each have their place [19:53] jdriselvato: python is a clean and concise language that lets you do things with relative ease. Perl is a pseudo-random string of character that does magic [19:54] they had an obfuscated Perl contest once, but everybody won [19:54] so the next year they held an obfuscated python contest, and everybody lost [19:54] mhall119: when you program in perl, everyone looses [19:54] mhall119: I guess, but from my experience i started off a python programmer and just got into perl. Which i am finding perl a much more attractive language to use for system administrating. [19:55] yeah, it's like nuclear war, nobody wins, but it's amazing to watch [19:55] and you have this guilty desire to give it a try sometimes [19:56] like all things bad for you [19:56] or taboo [19:56] Is perl really that looked down upon? [19:57] no, not at all [19:57] we're just joking because mhall119 and I are both huge pythonists [19:58] mhall119: you should join the syn then. [19:58] syn project* [19:58] * paultag sits and watches [19:59] * jdriselvato thinks paultag is hoping. [19:59] I'm actually a pretty big perl guy too [19:59] perl was my first love [19:59] BETRAYAL! [19:59] 19:58 < jdriselvato> mhall119: you should join the syn then. [20:00] mhall119: ^ the man asked you a question :) [20:00] I still love it, it's my guilty pleasure, but you don't exactly take perl home to meet your mom and dad [20:00] paultag: technically that's a statement [20:00] mhall119: sounds like every girl I've ever dated ever [20:00] mhall119: shove off :) [20:00] jdriselvato: it's funny because mhall119 and I talk about syn all the time :) [20:00] jdriselvato: I was hoping mhall119 would be snarky and turdish about it like he usually is [20:01] paultag: if I could $hours_in_the_day++ I'd love to join syn [20:01] mhall119: we're in a mini-freeze atm anyway right now [20:01] mhall119: but thanks :) [20:01] paultag: why is there a freeze? [20:02] I really should do more C/C++, I've only ever done it for school and a very small program when I was a kid [20:02] jdriselvato: We're packaging the base - I have 64 packages built now, and I'm ironing out issues, it's hard to isolate package problems when the package manager's changing [20:02] jdriselvato: gotta stabalize it, otherwise the userbase will get mad and switch to Arch [20:02] jdriselvato: syn's 80%ish feature complete [20:02] mhall119: SCREW THIS, I"M GOING TO ARCH [20:03] paultag: you should make an alien-like script to automatically convert debian packages to syn packages, then set it to run against the debian archives [20:03] in perl [20:03] mhall119: I actually already did [20:03] I should have known [20:03] mhall119: but the dependencies cause issues, and esp since I don't have multi-binary [20:03] in perl lmao [20:03] mhall119: but they're close enough where we can share most patches [20:04] paultag: can you find a way to make packaging nested python libraries work? [20:04] paultag: why don't you do issue 8 already? [20:04] mhall119: it works already - Syn does that [20:04] mhall119: so it's good :) [20:04] jdriselvato: it's noncritical, and I'm leaving it for you or someone like you to learn the process [20:04] paultag: no barfing on __init__.py existing in a parent directory? [20:05] mhall119: nopers [20:05] awesome, what was your solution? [20:05] mhall119: it handles it great, because Syn uses that for it's plumbing and policy sub modules [20:05] mhall119: let setup.py handle it ;) [20:05] mhall119: works great. Just have to add it as a second package manually [20:05] but that's not in Syn land, only upstream [20:05] paultag: I want to but i still don't understand one how to run, test.. uhh. eat syn. Plus i still don't understand the json matching. [20:05] mhall119: I'm becoming minimal in my old age [20:06] jdriselvato: I wrote dosc [20:06] docs [20:06] paultag: is what 26? [20:06] jdriselvato: http://docs.syn.pault.ag/syn-policy.html [20:06] jdriselvato: 22 [20:06] so I have have one package that's in mhall.projects.foo and another that's in mhall.projects.bar and it'll be happy with /usr/share/pyshared/mhall/__init__.py and mhall/projects/__init__.py? [20:06] mhall119: yeppers [20:06] awesome [20:06] paultag: 22? [20:06] mhall119: that's how syn does it's stuff internally [20:06] jdriselvato: yeah [20:06] 2.2? [20:06] if nothing else, I hope Debian steals that from you [20:07] mhall119: :) [20:07] oh age [20:07] yar [20:07] i thought you meant the syn-policy number [20:07] oh no, nope [20:07] we're at syn policy 1 still [20:07] syn2 has policy rev 6ish I think [20:07] but we're past that [20:09] Just got quickly installed. Is there any programming in this or its gui? [20:09] mhall119: P.S. did you know glibc and linux both ship scsi/scsi.h ? [20:09] mhall119: and they're different [20:09] heh [20:09] which to choose?! [20:09] the one for the kernel, or the c library [20:09] who needs scsi anyway [20:09] jdriselvato: no clue, I've never used it. Poke Bacon-meister [20:10] mhall119: yar, right? [20:10] mhall119: but they have different struct defs, and they ftbfs [20:10] ftbfs? [20:10] someone needs to shoot the glibc guys, they're so krufty [20:10] mhall119: failure to build from source - it's an ubuntu / debian term [20:10] why does the c library have driver code anyway? [20:10] mhall119: no goddamn clue [20:13] paultag: want to join our gobby? [20:13] jdriselvato: sorry not atm :( [20:14] Still fluxing? [20:14] jdriselvato: I'm working on flux stuff, trying to do it before EOD so I can have mhall119 read through it [20:14] and then push it up to git.fb for the nightly testing by the masses [20:14] Suhweet. Mass testing. [20:16] jdriselvato: yar :) [20:16] jdriselvato: the guys who run the nightly ppa rule [20:17] my server runs the builds at 00:00 UTC [20:19] how many servers do you have at home [20:19] jdriselvato: none [20:19] vm? [20:21] jdriselvato: three [20:21] jdriselvato: one's co-located in CO, USA [20:21] Fun. [20:21] jdriselvato: and two are Linodes in NJ, USA [20:21] and they're VPSs, not VMs [20:21] ah for your sites i am guessing for one. [20:22] jdriselvato: they all have their uses :) [20:24] mhall119: I have the basics up - http://git.pault.ag/?a=tree&p=xdg-state-parser&h=42078486070e7104ee92dcc6ee30e1d599afd746&hb=29d8578b109b096755a92b0c9c2b4cf3539b5b59 [20:24] mhall119: it's not done and it's not implemented, but it's close and it does what it says it does so far [20:27] mhall119: sorry, no docs, no comments, no really solid anything. If you want to wait, I understand :) [20:28] it's not even a good impl in main yet [20:28] or in the parsing machine either, that throw -10 or whatever is a goddamn kludge [20:35] paultag: gobby is sweet. Why don't we ever use it with syn. [20:37] jdriselvato: never cared to :) [20:38] quickly uses python as its language along with its gui. :D [20:41] paultag: is this all new code? [20:42] mhall119: yes [20:42] okay, this is likely gonna be 90% over my head [20:43] just warning you [20:43] mhall119: alright. If you still want to do it, you can just hack it up, but if you don't it can wait a few days [20:44] is "Crapola file" a standard error message? [20:44] mhall119: erm, depends on who's standard :) [20:44] mhall119: but yeah, that'll be changed to something better once main turns into the app and not just a test block [20:46] ok, I've gotta ask, isn't there already an xdg lib that does this? [20:46] mhall119: yes, but for some stupid reason it depends on like 50% of GNOME [20:46] mhall119: and we can't do that if we're in flux land, the binary needs to be as dep-free as we can get it [20:47] mhall119: there is a dep free python lib, but we need everything in C [20:47] erm ++ [20:47] :/ [20:47] do the gnome-do.desktop is just for testing I assume? [20:47] mhall119: yeah, sorry :) [20:48] is 'ja' True in C++? [20:49] or just in paul++ [20:49] mhall119: #define ja 1 [20:49] mhall119: paul++ [20:49] Nice. [20:50] ok, this is cool stuff, but I don't know enough A) XDG file spec of B) C++ [20:50] sorry, but you're gonna have to wait for someone better at this than me to review [20:51] mhall119: there's no XDG impl yet [20:51] mhall119: but yeah, totally [20:51] mhall119: no problem at all [20:51] mhall119: thanks for looking :) [20:51] paultag: i'll look at it too and then complain about how i dont understand. [20:52] jdriselvato: it's git cloneable [20:52] git://pault.ag/xdg-pars....*.git [20:54] hey paultag can you explain a makefile? [20:55] nobody can exmplain a makefile [20:55] jdriselvato: not atm :( [20:55] jdriselvato: but yes, they're awesome [20:55] Ah. okay.... [20:58] paultag: the xdg thing looks good? lmao. Not even sure what et iz [20:59] paultag: can i haz another spiffy code puzzle?