[15:01] <jaustinpage> hi
[15:01] <ajray> hi
[15:08] <ajray> wheres loudbot
[15:24] <billf> Triangle Area Ubuntu Global Jam team is now online
[15:26] <ajray> XMUNAD\
[15:48]  * Nivex waves
[15:56]  * billf takes a photo
[16:31] <billf> why is glade (quickly gui desgner) so difficult to use ?
[16:32] <Nivex> because GUI design is a pain in the butt?
[17:15] <paultag> mhall119: what are you doing up here?
[17:15] <jdriselvato> >.>
[17:15] <paultag> you should be in flordia
[17:15] <paultag> erm, florida
[17:16]  * paultag waves to holstein, akgraner, jdriselvato
[17:16] <paultag> How's the Jam?
[17:17] <BugeyeD> needs more sugar. or truvia, your pick.
[17:17] <paultag> BugeyeD: :)
[17:17] <jdriselvato> We haven't fixed a bug yet. Just communicating.
[17:18] <paultag> you don't have to fix anything - breaking stuff is just as useful :)
[17:18] <jdriselvato> whats wrong with flux paultag?
[17:18] <paultag> jdriselvato: nothing :)
[17:18] <paultag> jdriselvato: why do you ask?
[17:18]  * BugeyeD has been trying to unbreak his car all morning. not feeling very useful.
[17:19] <paultag> BugeyeD: :(
[17:19] <jdriselvato> Nothing just that you said you had fluxbox work
[17:19] <paultag> jdriselvato: Oh yeah, I'm adding in some XDG Autostarting, and I've been meaning to rewrite the parser using a stateful model
[17:20] <paultag> but that's not mainlined yet, I'm not happy with it
[17:20] <paultag> it's parsing comments super well right now!! :)
[17:21] <jdriselvato> Ah. Oh i showed a co-worker that Endian C code yesterday. Took him 30 minutes with a little hints from me. But he really liked it.
[17:21] <paultag> jdriselvato: oh that cute little program-let? :)
[17:21] <jdriselvato> brought a smile to his face.. hah.
[17:21] <jdriselvato> 3 line beast?
[17:21] <paultag> jdriselvato: yeah it's fun, I like those little clever puzzles
[17:22] <jdriselvato> As do i. I have 3 more of yours. I need to get back to figure those out.
[17:22] <paultag> :)
[17:33] <mhall119> paultag: I'm always here
[17:33] <paultag> mhall119: why? :)
[17:33] <mhall119> same reason as you
[17:33] <paultag> mhall119: I came over to find someone @ the jam to embarass jdriselvato
[17:33] <paultag> mhall119: I did not know you knew jdriselvato
[17:33] <paultag> mhall119: small world
[17:33] <jdriselvato> Why paultag ....
[17:35] <paultag> jdriselvato: this is how I have my fun
[17:36] <paultag> .. duh?
[17:36] <jdriselvato> paultag: one day i'll do that same thing to you. but instead of people knowing me, i'll make you look like a fool because no one would. :D
[17:37] <paultag> jdriselvato: please do :)
[17:37] <jdriselvato> Well i need to switch to ubuntu i'll be back in 5
[17:37] <paultag> kk
[17:47] <mhall119> paultag: ok, so maybe not the same reason
[17:48] <paultag> mhall119: thought so :)
[17:55] <paultag> mhall119: do you know C++?
[19:31] <mhall119> paultag: in theory I do
[19:32] <paultag> mhall119: could you do a theoretical review of some code after it's warm and gooey? All my peer fluxers are on vacation (literally, all of them)
[19:34] <mhall119> is it beginner's C++, or advanced super-hacker stuff?
[19:35] <paultag> mhall119: it's on the simple end of advanced-ish. Nothing too crazy
[19:36] <mhall119> I'll be happy to take a look, but if I don't feel comfortable I'll let you know
[19:36] <paultag> mhall119: sure, thanks :)
[19:36] <paultag> mhall119: I just need to make sure I'm avoiding stupid things
[19:44] <mhall119> well it's C++, so....
[19:45] <paultag> mhall119: I can't assume the user has python installed
[19:45] <paultag> or perl
[19:45] <paultag> which would be the only clean-er solutions
[19:46] <jdriselvato> paultag: perl vs python?
[19:47] <paultag> jdriselvato: they're different tools :)
[19:48] <jdriselvato> Alright. Perl vs Python for system administrating....
[19:49] <jdriselvato> What is so different?
[19:49] <holstein> paultag: ?
[19:49] <holstein> are you in NC?
[19:50] <paultag> holstein: no, sorry. I came here to get akgraner to pick jdriselvato out of the crowd and make him stand up or something
[19:50] <paultag> holstein: and kinda got carried away with everyone
[19:50] <paultag> holstein: but hi :)
[19:50] <jdriselvato> Perl and python can both do web-dev, perl and python can both do great system administrating scripts.
[19:51] <holstein> paultag: hehe
[19:51] <jdriselvato> What can perl/python do that the other can't?
[19:51] <paultag> jdriselvato: perl is much better with handling text, python is easier to maintain and extend
[19:52] <jdriselvato> So just depends on what the situation is. Like all languages paultag
[19:52] <paultag> always. They each have their place
[19:53] <mhall119> jdriselvato: python is a clean and concise language that lets you do things with relative ease.  Perl is a pseudo-random string of character that does magic
[19:54] <mhall119> they had an obfuscated Perl contest once, but everybody won
[19:54] <mhall119> so the next year they held an obfuscated python contest, and everybody lost
[19:54] <paultag> mhall119: when you program in perl, everyone looses
[19:54] <jdriselvato> mhall119: I guess, but from my experience i started off a python programmer and just got into perl. Which i am finding perl a much more attractive language to use for system administrating.
[19:55] <mhall119> yeah, it's like nuclear war, nobody wins, but it's amazing to watch
[19:55] <mhall119> and you have this guilty desire to give it a try sometimes
[19:56] <paultag> like all things bad for you
[19:56] <paultag> or taboo
[19:56] <jdriselvato> Is perl really that looked down upon?
[19:57] <paultag> no, not at all
[19:57] <paultag> we're just joking because mhall119 and I are both huge pythonists
[19:58] <jdriselvato> mhall119: you should join the syn then.
[19:58] <jdriselvato> syn project*
[19:58]  * paultag sits and watches
[19:59]  * jdriselvato thinks paultag is hoping.
[19:59] <mhall119> I'm actually a pretty big perl guy too
[19:59] <mhall119> perl was my first love
[19:59] <jdriselvato> BETRAYAL!
[19:59] <paultag> 19:58 < jdriselvato> mhall119: you should join the syn then.
[20:00] <paultag> mhall119: ^ the man asked you a question :)
[20:00] <mhall119> I still love it, it's my guilty pleasure, but you don't exactly take perl home to meet your mom and dad
[20:00] <mhall119> paultag: technically that's a statement
[20:00] <paultag> mhall119: sounds like every girl I've ever dated ever
[20:00] <paultag> mhall119: shove off :)
[20:00] <paultag> jdriselvato: it's funny because mhall119 and I talk about syn all the time :)
[20:00] <paultag> jdriselvato: I was hoping mhall119 would be snarky and turdish about it like he usually is
[20:01] <mhall119> paultag: if I could $hours_in_the_day++ I'd love to join syn
[20:01] <paultag> mhall119: we're in a mini-freeze atm anyway right now
[20:01] <paultag> mhall119: but thanks :)
[20:01] <jdriselvato> paultag: why is there a freeze?
[20:02] <mhall119> I really should do more C/C++, I've only ever done it for school and a very small program when I was a kid
[20:02] <paultag> jdriselvato: We're packaging the base - I have 64 packages built now, and I'm ironing out issues, it's hard to isolate package problems when the package manager's changing
[20:02] <mhall119> jdriselvato: gotta stabalize it, otherwise the userbase will get mad and switch to Arch
[20:02] <paultag> jdriselvato: syn's 80%ish feature complete
[20:02] <paultag> mhall119: SCREW THIS, I"M GOING TO ARCH
[20:03] <mhall119> paultag: you should make an alien-like script to automatically convert debian packages to syn packages, then set it to run against the debian archives
[20:03] <mhall119> in perl
[20:03] <paultag> mhall119: I actually already did
[20:03] <mhall119> I should have known
[20:03] <paultag> mhall119: but the dependencies cause issues, and esp since I don't have multi-binary
[20:03] <jdriselvato> in perl lmao
[20:03] <paultag> mhall119: but they're close enough where we can share most patches
[20:04] <mhall119> paultag: can you find a way to make packaging nested python libraries work?
[20:04] <jdriselvato> paultag: why don't you do issue 8 already?
[20:04] <paultag> mhall119: it works already - Syn does that
[20:04] <paultag> mhall119: so it's good :)
[20:04] <paultag> jdriselvato: it's noncritical, and I'm leaving it for you or someone like you to learn the process
[20:04] <mhall119> paultag: no barfing on __init__.py existing in a parent directory?
[20:05] <paultag> mhall119: nopers
[20:05] <mhall119> awesome, what was your solution?
[20:05] <paultag> mhall119: it handles it great, because Syn uses that for it's plumbing and policy sub modules
[20:05] <paultag> mhall119: let setup.py handle it ;)
[20:05] <paultag> mhall119: works great. Just have to add it as a second package manually
[20:05] <paultag> but that's not in Syn land, only upstream
[20:05] <jdriselvato> paultag: I want to but i still don't understand one how to run, test.. uhh. eat syn. Plus i still don't understand the json matching.
[20:05] <paultag> mhall119: I'm becoming minimal in my old age
[20:06] <paultag> jdriselvato: I wrote dosc
[20:06] <paultag> docs
[20:06] <jdriselvato> paultag: is what 26?
[20:06] <paultag> jdriselvato: http://docs.syn.pault.ag/syn-policy.html
[20:06] <paultag> jdriselvato: 22
[20:06] <mhall119> so I have have one package that's in mhall.projects.foo and another that's in mhall.projects.bar and it'll be happy with /usr/share/pyshared/mhall/__init__.py and mhall/projects/__init__.py?
[20:06] <paultag> mhall119: yeppers
[20:06] <mhall119> awesome
[20:06] <jdriselvato> paultag: 22?
[20:06] <paultag> mhall119: that's how syn does it's stuff internally
[20:06] <paultag> jdriselvato: yeah
[20:06] <jdriselvato> 2.2?
[20:06] <mhall119> if nothing else, I hope Debian steals that from you
[20:07] <paultag> mhall119: :)
[20:07] <jdriselvato> oh age
[20:07] <paultag> yar
[20:07] <jdriselvato> i thought you meant the syn-policy number
[20:07] <paultag> oh no, nope
[20:07] <paultag> we're at syn policy 1 still
[20:07] <paultag> syn2 has policy rev 6ish I think
[20:07] <paultag> but we're past that
[20:09] <jdriselvato> Just got quickly installed. Is there any programming in this or its gui?
[20:09] <paultag> mhall119: P.S. did you know glibc and linux both ship scsi/scsi.h ?
[20:09] <paultag> mhall119: and they're different
[20:09] <mhall119> heh
[20:09] <paultag> which to choose?!
[20:09] <paultag> the one for the kernel, or the c library
[20:09] <mhall119> who needs scsi anyway
[20:09] <paultag> jdriselvato: no clue, I've never used it. Poke Bacon-meister
[20:10] <paultag> mhall119: yar, right?
[20:10] <paultag> mhall119: but they have different struct defs, and they ftbfs
[20:10] <mhall119> ftbfs?
[20:10] <paultag> someone needs to shoot the glibc guys, they're so krufty
[20:10] <paultag> mhall119: failure to build from source - it's an ubuntu / debian term
[20:10] <mhall119> why does the c library have driver code anyway?
[20:10] <paultag> mhall119: no goddamn clue
[20:13] <jdriselvato> paultag: want to join our gobby?
[20:13] <paultag> jdriselvato: sorry not atm :(
[20:14] <jdriselvato> Still fluxing?
[20:14] <paultag> jdriselvato: I'm working on flux stuff, trying to do it before EOD so I can have mhall119 read through it
[20:14] <paultag> and then push it up to git.fb for the nightly testing by the masses
[20:14] <jdriselvato> Suhweet. Mass testing.
[20:16] <paultag> jdriselvato: yar :)
[20:16] <paultag> jdriselvato: the guys who run the nightly ppa rule
[20:17] <paultag> my server runs the builds at 00:00 UTC
[20:19] <jdriselvato> how many servers do you have at home
[20:19] <paultag> jdriselvato: none
[20:19] <jdriselvato> vm?
[20:21] <paultag> jdriselvato: three
[20:21] <paultag> jdriselvato: one's co-located in CO, USA
[20:21] <jdriselvato> Fun.
[20:21] <paultag> jdriselvato: and two are Linodes in NJ, USA
[20:21] <paultag> and they're VPSs, not VMs
[20:21] <jdriselvato> ah for your sites i am guessing for one.
[20:22] <paultag> jdriselvato: they all have their uses :)
[20:24] <paultag> mhall119: I have the basics up - http://git.pault.ag/?a=tree&p=xdg-state-parser&h=42078486070e7104ee92dcc6ee30e1d599afd746&hb=29d8578b109b096755a92b0c9c2b4cf3539b5b59
[20:24] <paultag> mhall119: it's not done and it's not implemented, but it's close and it does what it says it does so far
[20:27] <paultag> mhall119: sorry, no docs, no comments, no really solid anything. If you want to wait, I understand :)
[20:28] <paultag> it's not even a good impl in main yet
[20:28] <paultag> or in the parsing machine either, that throw -10 or whatever is a goddamn kludge
[20:35] <jdriselvato> paultag: gobby is sweet. Why don't we ever use it with syn.
[20:37] <paultag> jdriselvato: never cared to :)
[20:38] <jdriselvato> quickly uses python as its language along with its gui. :D
[20:41] <mhall119> paultag: is this all new code?
[20:42] <paultag> mhall119: yes
[20:42] <mhall119> okay, this is likely gonna be 90% over my head
[20:43] <mhall119> just warning you
[20:43] <paultag> mhall119: alright. If you still want to do it, you can just hack it up, but if you don't it can wait a few days
[20:44] <mhall119> is "Crapola file" a standard error message?
[20:44] <paultag> mhall119: erm, depends on who's standard :)
[20:44] <paultag> mhall119: but yeah, that'll be changed to something better once main turns into the app and not just a test block
[20:46] <mhall119> ok, I've gotta ask, isn't there already an xdg lib that does this?
[20:46] <paultag> mhall119: yes, but for some stupid reason it depends on like 50% of GNOME
[20:46] <paultag> mhall119: and we can't do that if we're in flux land, the binary needs to be as dep-free as we can get it
[20:47] <paultag> mhall119: there is a dep free python lib, but we need everything in C
[20:47] <paultag> erm ++
[20:47] <mhall119> :/
[20:47] <mhall119> do the gnome-do.desktop is just for testing I assume?
[20:47] <paultag> mhall119: yeah, sorry :)
[20:48] <mhall119> is 'ja' True in C++?
[20:49] <mhall119> or just in paul++
[20:49] <paultag> mhall119: #define ja 1
[20:49] <jdriselvato> mhall119: paul++
[20:49] <jdriselvato> Nice.
[20:50] <mhall119> ok, this is cool stuff, but I don't know enough A) XDG file spec of B) C++
[20:50] <mhall119> sorry, but you're gonna have to wait for someone better at this than me to review
[20:51] <paultag> mhall119: there's no XDG impl yet
[20:51] <paultag> mhall119: but yeah, totally
[20:51] <paultag> mhall119: no problem at all
[20:51] <paultag> mhall119: thanks for looking :)
[20:51] <jdriselvato> paultag: i'll look at it too and then complain about how i dont understand.
[20:52] <paultag> jdriselvato: it's git cloneable
[20:52] <paultag> git://pault.ag/xdg-pars....*.git
[20:54] <jdriselvato> hey paultag can you explain a makefile?
[20:55] <mhall119> nobody can exmplain a makefile
[20:55] <paultag> jdriselvato: not atm :(
[20:55] <paultag> jdriselvato: but yes, they're awesome
[20:55] <jdriselvato> Ah. okay....
[20:58] <jdriselvato> paultag: the xdg thing looks good? lmao. Not even sure what et iz
[20:59] <jdriselvato> paultag: can i haz another spiffy code puzzle?