[16:59] <holstein> the studio-ers are moving in ;)
[16:59] <astraljava> Holla guys an' gals. Are we ready to rock?
[16:59] <astraljava> Or is it hola? I always forget.
[16:59] <craigs63> hola back
[16:59] <falktx> hey
[17:00] <astraljava> I think we're on.
[17:01] <astraljava> #startmeeting Ubuntu Studio development monthly
[17:01] <meetingology> Meeting started Sun Sep  4 17:01:12 2011 UTC.  The chair is astraljava. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
[17:01] <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
[17:01] <astraljava> #chair astraljava
[17:01] <meetingology> Current chairs: astraljava
[17:01] <astraljava> Welcome everyone!
[17:01] <astraljava> For starters, I'd like to say that I'm excited to see some new activity in this project.
[17:02] <holstein> o/
[17:02] <astraljava> Welcome all the new contributors, whole-heartedly!
[17:02] <astraljava> Not forgetting the old ones, of course. :)
[17:02] <astraljava> Okay, as you probably already recall now, you can find the agenda and all other related information at:
[17:03] <astraljava> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Meetings/2011September4
[17:03] <astraljava> But here's the agenda for today, anyway:
[17:03] <astraljava> Call Meeting to Order
[17:03] <astraljava> Old Business
[17:03] <astraljava> website udpate - new website is impractical right now, ScottL will see about updating current one
[17:03] <astraljava> thanks everyone involved in Beta1 testing, especially astraljava
[17:03] <astraljava> New Business
[17:03] <astraljava> XFCE migration - how is it going?
[17:03] <astraljava> lightdm - is it working now with background?
[17:03] <astraljava> new audience - musicians moving to and unfamiliar with Linux?
[17:03] <astraljava> Beta2 testing is coming
[17:04] <astraljava> new meeting schedule for twice a month (in contrast to once a month) for oneiric+1 ?
[17:04] <astraljava> Goals for Oneiric+1
[17:04] <astraljava> live dvd
[17:04] <astraljava> lowlatency kernel
[17:04] <astraljava> new UI or theme for xfce
[17:04] <astraljava> new documentation
[17:04] <astraljava> links/documentation on desktop/menu for new users?
[17:04] <astraljava> how can we make is more simple, clean, easy for users?
[17:04] <astraljava> Team structure / Strategy document
[17:04] <astraljava> Any Other Business (all/anyone)
[17:04] <astraljava> Next Meeting Time/Location
[17:04] <astraljava> Next Meeting Chair
[17:04] <astraljava> I think we're done with the first, so let's hit it on.
[17:04] <astraljava> #topic Old Business
[17:04] <astraljava> Hmm... did the bot die on me?
[17:04] <astraljava> Oh good, there it is.
[17:05] <astraljava> #subtopic website update
[17:05] <holstein> so, thats bagged for a while?
[17:05] <holstein> i was assuming the work load might be similar to fix the current one, or just drop in the new one
[17:05] <scott-upstairs> sorry, i'm a dork and i'm slow and stupid
[17:05] <astraljava> scott-upstairs: Would you like to go on that one?
[17:05] <astraljava> No worries, we knew. :D
[17:06] <holstein> the new one seemed so ready to go last time i looked
[17:06] <scott-upstairs> astraljava, sorry, i missed the topic
[17:06] <scott-upstairs> website?
[17:06] <astraljava> website update
[17:06] <holstein> and my rationale was, it cant be *more* broken than what we have
[17:06] <scott-upstairs> suggestion is to use the "new" one that jorge made?
[17:07] <scott-upstairs> let me play with the old one first and test something
[17:07] <scott-upstairs> if its crap i'll see if i can get the new one over
[17:07] <falktx> is there a screenshot of the new proposal?
[17:07] <scott-upstairs> but i'm no expert with website and especially with part of the website in launchpad
[17:07] <scott-upstairs> falktx, hold one
[17:07] <scott-upstairs> one
[17:07] <scott-upstairs> on
[17:07] <holstein> i mean, i dont think we should waste time doing anything to the old one now
[17:07] <shnatsel|busy> edubuntu guys seem to be happy with their blog-like website - you might want to try it
[17:07] <holstein> even if that means sitting on it for a bit
[17:07] <scott-upstairs> http://www.myhaiku.org/ falktx
[17:08] <holstein> shnatsel|busy: i like the blog like style
[17:08] <falktx> scott-upstairs: looks cool!
[17:08] <scott-upstairs> shnatsel|busy, we had consideredd various other things, like hosting our own, using wordpress, etc
[17:08] <holstein> but, we are already somewhat commited to this idea
[17:08] <scott-upstairs> but in terms of maintence we felt that staying with current hosting and drupal was the way to go
[17:09] <scott-upstairs> i'll see what i can do
[17:09] <holstein> yeah... thats true
[17:09] <holstein> scott-upstairs: let us know if we can do anything
[17:09] <holstein> i can put a drupal box online here, but i dont think thats the issue
[17:09] <holstein> moving the database over is a drag right?
[17:10] <scott-upstairs> holstein, the database will basically not really be needed i think because the new website doesn't really have any content
[17:10] <scott-upstairs> i think
[17:10] <holstein> COOL
[17:10] <falktx> scott-upstairs: I think too, this seems like pure html
[17:10] <holstein> that would be easier for us then
[17:10] <scott-upstairs> but my concern is the mechanics of making new pages....the old site has many pages but the new one doesn't
[17:10]  * falktx loves the new website proposal
[17:10] <holstein> scott-upstairs: good
[17:10] <scott-upstairs> i want to test on the old one and see if we can add new pages
[17:10] <holstein> i dont think we need a bunch of pages
[17:10] <scott-upstairs> without having to edit launchpad code
[17:11] <holstein> links to wikis
[17:11] <holstein> a one page clean site would be great right now
[17:11] <shnatsel|busy> holstein: wikis suck. make them WISYWIG or use Google Docs.
[17:11] <scott-upstairs> i just want to know how to manipulate things before we drop one that kinda works and has content for one that has two pages and no content
[17:11] <falktx> scott-upstairs: I know a way around this, as I used it before
[17:11] <scott-upstairs> falktx, for which?
[17:11] <falktx> scott-upstairs: we create a simple xml file containing the news, and a simple php function will auto-read-and-make pages from it (news only)
[17:11] <scott-upstairs> shnatsel|busy, how would we make them WISYWIG?
[17:12] <scott-upstairs> falktx, okay
[17:12] <shnatsel|busy> scott-upstairs: AFAIK MoinMoin has a plugin for that
[17:12] <falktx> scott-upstairs: I've done it before, it's easy for me
[17:12] <holstein> shnatsel|busy: im talking about the current ubuntu wikis
[17:12] <holstein> they are what we got
[17:12] <holstein> anything we have local is a duplication of efforts
[17:12] <holstein> and would be confusing (in my opinion)
[17:12] <scott-upstairs> shnatsel|busy, are you saying we try to pull content from the wiki into the website and make is pretty then?
[17:12] <shnatsel|busy> holstein: for user-editable content they totally suck.
[17:13] <holstein> shnatsel|busy: sure, but that ubuntu-wide
[17:13] <holstein> thast*
[17:13] <falktx> holstein: is it possible to put the wiki into an iframe?
[17:13] <holstein> its not something we can change now
[17:13]  * scott-upstairs thinks that edubuntu is doing that already
[17:13] <scott-upstairs> falktx, what is an iframe?
[17:13] <shnatsel|busy> holstein: artwork team tried to work that around
[17:13] <falktx> scott-upstairs: a html frame (part of the site), rendered as the site, but that actually comes from another place
[17:13] <holstein> im sure we can, but we have to be sure the new user knows whats what
[17:13] <holstein> and why they are being redirected
[17:14] <holstein> then, we have to maintain both...
[17:14] <scott-upstairs> falktx, yes, i would like to do this!
[17:14] <shnatsel|busy> holstein: they failed because Canonical doesn't care about community artwork team
[17:14] <holstein> shnatsel|busy:  :/
[17:14] <scott-upstairs> as holstein said, i don't want to duplicate effort
[17:14] <holstein> yup
[17:14] <holstein> we *cant* do that now
[17:14] <holstein> we dont have the resources to waste effort
[17:14] <holstein> we have wikis, and forums
[17:14] <holstein> it would be work to leave them, and implement something on our own
[17:14] <scott-upstairs> okay so that plan is i will see what i can do to move the new site, then work with falktx to see about using the iframe bit to display existing wiki information in the website
[17:15] <holstein> not that we cant do that at some point
[17:15] <scott-upstairs> s/that/the
[17:15] <scott-upstairs> holstein, ^^^
[17:15] <holstein> scott-upstairs: i like that
[17:15] <holstein> even if its just links to the current stuff
[17:15] <holstein> thats fine with me
[17:15] <astraljava> Okay, sounds good. Perhaps we should move on to other things now?
[17:15] <scott-upstairs> please
[17:15] <falktx> wait a bit
[17:15] <scott-upstairs> oh... :)
[17:15] <astraljava> falktx: Go ahead.
[17:15] <falktx> we need to make sure the ubuntu wiki supports this
[17:16] <falktx> some site do, others don't
[17:16] <scott-upstairs> falktx, edubuntu is doing this already some how
[17:16] <falktx> scott-upstairs: website?
[17:16] <scott-upstairs> aye
[17:16] <falktx> please post an example link
[17:16] <scott-upstairs> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/UbuntuStudio
[17:17] <scott-upstairs> this also is apparently better at SEO as well
[17:17] <scott-upstairs> i haven't look at the source so i'm not sure, but they have all Ubuntu Studio edits too quickly (IMO) for copying of vast tracts of text to their servers
[17:17] <holstein> as long as it doesnt add an edit point, and we can handle the maintanence, im all for it
[17:18] <shnatsel|busy> looks cool indeed
[17:18] <falktx> well, I don't think this is really easy stuff
[17:18] <falktx> we should contact them, they will surely help though
[17:19] <scott-upstairs> REALLY good example, our agenda for today:  https://wiki.edubuntu.org/UbuntuStudio/Meetings/2011September4
[17:19] <shnatsel|busy> screenshots.ubuntu.com is just screenshots.debian.com, I'm pretty sure one can add a custom CSS to that system
[17:19] <falktx> scott-upstairs: I guess the new website would have a "wiki" tab that pushes the US wiki, right?
[17:19] <scott-upstairs> falktx, i don't really know
[17:19] <scott-upstairs> all links from edubuntu point to the real site
[17:19] <scott-upstairs> but let's discuss this after we get the new website up, that will take long enough already
[17:20] <falktx> ah, they are probably accessing the database and creating his own pages
[17:20] <astraljava> #action scott-upstairs to look into moving the new site, and work with falktx re: using iframes for wiki access
[17:20] <meetingology> ACTION: scott-upstairs to look into moving the new site, and work with falktx re: using iframes for wiki access
[17:20] <falktx> scott-upstairs: that is probably a custom mediawiki theme, or some other wiki engine
[17:20] <holstein> w00t
[17:20] <shnatsel|busy> falktx: MoinMoin
[17:20] <falktx> ah, ok
[17:21] <shnatsel|busy> http://moinmo.in
[17:21] <falktx> shnatsel|busy: we'll just need a custom theme to match the new website
[17:21] <astraljava> Okay, just a side-note, could we finish our speaks with double-dots (..), so the chair will know we're done with the topic?
[17:21] <astraljava> I mean, when you're done with your soap-box for the time, add that on an otherwise empty line.
[17:21] <scott-upstairs> okay
[17:21] <scott-upstairs> ..
[17:21] <shnatsel|busy> ..
[17:21] <falktx> all good now I think
[17:21] <falktx> next please
[17:22] <astraljava> Thanks, it will make the chair's life easier in the future, as we're growing now.
[17:22] <falktx> ;)
[17:22] <astraljava> #subtopic Beta1 testing
[17:22] <astraljava> Thanks for everyone involved! We got a (not-so) beautiful release for it.
[17:22] <astraljava> #topic New Business
[17:22] <astraljava> #subtopic XFCE migration
[17:23] <astraljava> We have finally gotted rid of unity \m/
[17:23] <holstein> :)
[17:23] <falktx> astraljava: were the fixed-menu pushed to the repos?
[17:23] <astraljava> On the otherhand, our sessions still look like crap.
[17:23] <holstein> hehe
[17:23] <scott-upstairs> yay, congratulations astraljava for your efforts to accomplish this
[17:23] <holstein> hey, its a work in progress
[17:23] <astraljava> Which leads to falktx's question, no it is not.
[17:23] <astraljava> I'll try to get it done tonight.
[17:24]  * scott-upstairs was going to download a dialy image to test lightdm and menu
[17:24] <astraljava> Weekend didn't really go as planned.
[17:24] <scott-upstairs> i'll wait a few more days then, astraljava please let me know when it is pushed so i can test
[17:24] <astraljava> scott-upstairs: Will do.
[17:24] <falktx> they should appear in the oneiric-changes mailiing list
[17:25] <scott-upstairs> ..
[17:25] <astraljava> We will need to look at how our session integrates with XFCE desktop.
[17:25] <astraljava> I can look into this too, but are there others who could assist (or better yet, take over?)
[17:26] <scott-upstairs> didirock helped me last time with 'ubuntu-classic' (i.e. gnome-panel) vs. 'ubuntu' (i.e. unity)
[17:26] <falktx> I never got a working ISO install, so I don't know how it looks. can someone explain in detail what is the issue?
[17:26] <scott-upstairs> falktx, when you select your user name it defaults to some other session that xfce
[17:26] <holstein> astraljava: it would be nice to get the xubuntu guy help
[17:26] <astraljava> falktx: http://astraljava.kapsi.fi/(X)ubuntu_studio_cropped.png
[17:26] <scott-upstairs> you have to select xfce for it to work
[17:26] <holstein> i could do that prolly
[17:26] <holstein> i have no idea how to do it on my own
[17:26] <falktx> uh, ugly
[17:26] <astraljava> That's how it looks like now. There are no studio icons, no desktop wallpaper etc.
[17:26] <holstein> but if someone will help, i'll try and organize it
[17:27] <shnatsel|busy> I think I can help
[17:27] <shnatsel|busy> Didrocks helped me with that already
[17:27] <falktx> astraljava: can't we just copy xubuntu-default-settings there?
[17:27] <astraljava> holstein: shnatsel|busy: Excellent! Can we assign this task to you?
[17:27] <holstein> sure
[17:27] <scott-upstairs> astraljava, that link was for the menu
[17:27] <holstein> shnatsel|busy: just let me know what i can do... and take it easy on me :)
[17:27] <shnatsel|busy> astraljava: Switch default X session? OK, assign me to the bug.
[17:27] <astraljava> scott-upstairs: Sure, but you can see that none of the standard icons aren't replaced by ours.
[17:28] <astraljava> shnatsel|busy: The thing is, we only have XFCE session in the greeter.
[17:28] <scott-upstairs> oh, i thought you meant that for the xfce session
[17:28] <astraljava> So none of our stuff will be loaded.
[17:28] <shnatsel|busy> astraljava: you have some custom stuff beyound XFCE?
[17:29] <astraljava> shnatsel|busy: Yes, our theming should have stuff that replaces the standard stuff. But we can discuss about that on our own channel after the meeting.
[17:29] <shnatsel|busy> astraljava: I've worked only with gnome-session and switching sessions in LightDM, I've never configured xfce4-session
[17:29] <shnatsel|busy> oh, and switching them in GDM too, obviously...
[17:30] <astraljava> shnatsel|busy: Okay, but are you willing to look into that?
[17:30] <astraljava> falktx: Good question, one that I don't have an answer to at this moment.
[17:30] <shnatsel|busy> astraljava: OK, I'll try
[17:30] <scott-upstairs> shnatsel|busy, that would be awesome
[17:30] <astraljava> shnatsel|busy: Let's just be vocal about it on the channel, so others can chime in if you get stuck.
[17:31] <scott-upstairs> cory should have _something_ done, perhaps we should email him ?
[17:31] <holstein> scott-upstairs: about XFCE?
[17:31] <scott-upstairs> aye!
[17:31] <holstein> i think he wanted to kill it right?
[17:31] <astraljava> #action holstein and shnatsel|busy to look into utilizing studio icons etc. on desktop session.
[17:31] <meetingology> ACTION: holstein and shnatsel|busy to look into utilizing studio icons etc. on desktop session.
[17:31] <scott-upstairs> if cory has something started no point in shnatsel|busy having to rediscover anything
[17:31] <holstein> wont hurt to ask \
[17:31] <scott-upstairs> i'll send him an email then
[17:31] <astraljava> scott-upstairs: Good point, so can you ask him?
[17:31] <falktx> I think xfce is just not using the US theme
[17:32] <falktx> if it uses the theme, the icons will look good, i guess
[17:32] <astraljava> #action scott-upstairs to ask Cory about any pending work on theming the session
[17:32] <meetingology> ACTION: scott-upstairs to ask Cory about any pending work on theming the session
[17:32] <scott-upstairs> he said something about it's easy because xfce uses an XML file
[17:33] <astraljava> ..'s ?
[17:33] <shnatsel|busy> custom icon themes in XFCE?! do they have any link to sessions at all?!
[17:33] <falktx> hm, confused
[17:34] <falktx> I was talking about the screenshot, were the icons are not right
[17:34] <astraljava> shnatsel|busy: I believe that's what should get done while you select a session in the lightdm greeter.
[17:34] <scott-upstairs> ..
[17:34] <astraljava> ...or rather, after you've selected it, and logged in.
[17:35] <astraljava> But again, we can discuss the technicals on our channel afterwards.
[17:35] <astraljava> ..
[17:35] <shnatsel|busy> astraljava: in GNOME it's just a default setting. It's not dependent on sessions (however sessions could change that before Natty)
[17:36] <falktx> I know this for sure, xfce uses some different icon names than gnome, so a little symlinks will be needed in the US icon theme
[17:36] <holstein> which would be easy?
[17:36] <holstein> right?
[17:36] <holstein> and that would give us our current icons in XFCE?
[17:36] <holstein> that would be nice
[17:36] <shnatsel|busy> astraljava: I've ported Humanity to LibreOffice. No more icon porting for me.
[17:36] <falktx> yes
[17:37] <holstein> i think a good goal would be to change as little as possible
[17:37] <falktx> holstein: I did that for kxstudio kde-gnome compatibility
[17:37] <holstein> when folks fire it up, it looks like gnome2-ish
[17:37] <falktx> yep
[17:37] <falktx> holstein: that is the point I guess
[17:37] <holstein> falktx: for now at least
[17:37] <falktx> have the interface looking like in previous releases
[17:37] <holstein> the least amount of change
[17:37] <holstein> i like the look/feel anyways
[17:38] <holstein> and i think others do too
[17:38] <astraljava> shnatsel|busy: Noted, thanks.
[17:38] <scott-upstairs> let's discuss this at length later
[17:38] <scott-upstairs> ..
[17:38] <shnatsel|busy> I personally think that US should not invent its own themes; I'm a strong believer in division of labor
[17:38] <shnatsel|busy> So let icon designers do the icon set
[17:38] <scott-upstairs> +1
[17:38] <shnatsel|busy> and we should make the distro, not icon sets
[17:38] <holstein> sure
[17:38] <holstein> i can identify with that
[17:39] <shnatsel|busy> package and integrate apps, etc
[17:39] <scott-upstairs> need some ".."
[17:39] <shnatsel|busy> do like Ubuntu did - just use elementaty icons with minimal mods
[17:39] <scott-upstairs> 's
[17:39] <falktx> faenza ftw!
[17:39] <astraljava> Maybe we shall add theming and branding for discussion in later meetings, then, as this seems to have some controversy in opinions.
[17:39] <shnatsel|busy> falktx: fancy but not intuitive and the whole experience breaks when you meet an icon that's not from faenza
[17:40] <shnatsel|busy> ..
[17:40] <shnatsel|busy> astraljava++
[17:40] <scott-upstairs> i hope we can speed things up because i will need to be going rather soon
[17:40] <scott-upstairs> we're already +40 minutes
[17:40] <astraljava> #subtopic lightdm
[17:40] <falktx> eek, 40 mins
[17:40] <astraljava> Like mentioned already, no it is not using the new background yet.
[17:40] <scott-upstairs> anyone testing the lightdm background fix falktx did?
[17:41] <scott-upstairs> oh, is that what you need to push astraljava as well?
[17:41] <astraljava> #action astraljava to drop in the background for lightdm greeter
[17:41] <meetingology> ACTION: astraljava to drop in the background for lightdm greeter
[17:41] <astraljava> ..
[17:41] <scott-upstairs> let me know when as with the menu astraljava , i'll test
[17:41] <scott-upstairs> ..
[17:41] <astraljava> #subtopic new audience
[17:41] <astraljava> This is a huge one, and as we're pressed on time, shall we move onwards?
[17:42] <holstein> well, we could just say what it is
[17:42] <holstein> i think we have all agreed right?
[17:42] <holstein> new users?
[17:42] <falktx> new users!
[17:42] <holstein> maybe not...
[17:42] <scott-upstairs> let's say that the idea is to support musicians who are new to linux
[17:42] <falktx> I agree it's new users
[17:42] <scott-upstairs> but hold comments until a later meeting
[17:42] <holstein> yup, new users to linux/audio
[17:42] <scott-upstairs> ..
[17:42] <holstein> we need to nail this down though
[17:42] <holstein> and i think that does
[17:43] <holstein> seems like so many decisions hinge on this target audience
[17:43] <holstein> keepint to the musician new to linux is fine
[17:43] <astraljava> Right, so let's discuss that on October's meeting, so that we get it right for the next cycle.
[17:43] <holstein> that gives us a goal
[17:43] <shnatsel|busy> Artists too!
[17:43] <scott-upstairs> shnatsel|busy, aye!  good point
[17:43] <shnatsel|busy> And photographers
[17:43] <holstein> i can go there too
[17:44] <scott-upstairs> ..
[17:44] <astraljava> #action move new audience to October's meeting
[17:44] <meetingology> ACTION: move new audience to October's meeting
[17:44] <astraljava> #subtopic Beta2 is coming
[17:44] <holstein> subscribing to the iso testing is how to help with that right?
[17:44] <astraljava> The testing will happen on around 20th to 22nd of September.
[17:45] <astraljava> holstein: That is correct.
[17:45] <scott-upstairs> sept 22
[17:45] <holstein> cool..
[17:45] <scott-upstairs> oh, sorry, you already got it :)
[17:45] <astraljava> Everyone is encouraged to do that, so please, if you can spare time for it, that'd would rock! \m/
[17:45] <holstein> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/
[17:45] <falktx> wow, ~2 weeks from beta to final release?
[17:45] <scott-upstairs> hopefully we will not have so many respins this time as well
[17:45] <scott-upstairs> falktx, that's the way the schedule fell this cycle :(
[17:45] <falktx> :(
[17:46] <astraljava> For those un-aware of the release schedule, check:
[17:46] <scott-upstairs> i think we can avoid FFe's if we file bugs against things like lightdm or the menu to fix things also
[17:46] <astraljava> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OneiricReleaseSchedule
[17:46] <scott-upstairs> which technically wouldn't need a FFe or other anyway
[17:46] <scott-upstairs> ..
[17:46] <astraljava> scott-upstairs: FFes are not too big of a problem for us, when most of the changes we do only affect us.
[17:47] <astraljava> ..
[17:47] <astraljava> Anything else for New Business?
[17:47] <holstein> there was something
[17:47] <astraljava> Oh sorry.
[17:47] <holstein> xsane to whatever is used now
[17:47] <astraljava> #subtopic new meeting schedule
[17:47] <holstein> simplescan?
[17:47] <holstein> are we on simplescan?
[17:47] <shnatsel|busy> yes
[17:47] <holstein> this is non-important i think
[17:47] <shnatsel|busy> simplescan
[17:48] <holstein> but it came up on the mailing list
[17:48] <shnatsel|busy> Ubuntu changed 3 releases ago
[17:48] <shnatsel|busy> doo eet!
[17:48] <holstein> i think when we have time, switching to simplescan too would be a good idea
[17:48] <astraljava> We can do the change. It's not a big problem, I think.
[17:48] <scott-upstairs> ewww, yeah we should probably do likewise
[17:48] <holstein> astraljava: if its easy
[17:48] <shnatsel|busy> it's easy
[17:48] <astraljava> #action astraljava to look into replacing xsane with simplescan
[17:48] <meetingology> ACTION: astraljava to look into replacing xsane with simplescan
[17:48] <shnatsel|busy> remove line from seed, add line to seed
[17:48] <scott-upstairs> just changing the seed and getting luke to update the metas
[17:48] <holstein> i cant find that email... there were a few more suggestions
[17:49] <shnatsel|busy> holstein: yep, from me
[17:49] <astraljava> Yep, we'll just have to check the dependencies.
[17:49] <astraljava> ..
[17:49] <holstein> that was the easiest, and most relavant though
[17:49] <holstein> shnatsel|busy: COOL
[17:49] <shnatsel|busy> holstein: "last call for oneiric seeds" thread
[17:49] <holstein> what were the others?
[17:49] <holstein> 2 others?
[17:49] <scott-upstairs> darktable
[17:49] <shnatsel|busy> holstein: Darktable, photo seed, something else
[17:49] <shnatsel|busy> MyPaint
[17:50] <holstein> maybe thats whats up... i have no experience with those
[17:50] <scott-upstairs> holstein, shnatsel|busy, can you figure out what you want and talk to astraljava after the meeting about including them?
[17:50] <holstein> sure
[17:50] <scott-upstairs> ..
[17:50] <astraljava> Thanks!
[17:50] <holstein> no problem :)
[17:50] <shnatsel|busy> I also propose to replace nautilus-image-converter with Phatch: photobatch.stani.be
[17:50] <shnatsel|busy> http://packages.ubuntu.com/oneiric/phatch
[17:50] <shnatsel|busy> That Nautilus extension is useless because Ubuntu Studio has switched to Thunar anyway, and Phatch is a praised and useful app.
[17:50] <shnatsel|busy> scott-upstairs: np
[17:50] <astraljava> Now, I mentioned that we should start having meetings more often for the next cycle.
[17:50] <holstein> astraljava: sure
[17:50] <astraljava> Maybe every week is a little too much.
[17:51] <holstein> twice a month?
[17:51] <astraljava> But bi-weekly?
[17:51] <shnatsel|busy> astraljava: I suggest weekly
[17:51] <holstein> maybe the 1st and 3rd sundays?
[17:51] <scott-upstairs> +1 more meetings
[17:51] <astraljava> shnatsel|busy: If we can commit to that, then I'm all for it.
[17:51] <holstein> if we need more, we can go weekly
[17:51] <falktx> twice a month sounds cool to me
[17:51] <astraljava> Shall we vote on that?
[17:51] <scott-upstairs> can we start with two meetings a month (bi-monthly) and see how it goes?
[17:51] <holstein> shnatsel|busy: cool?
[17:51] <falktx> scott-upstairs: I'm with you
[17:51] <craigs63> same time of day as this?
[17:51] <shnatsel|busy> scott-upstairs++
[17:51] <holstein> craigs63: i can check the schedule here, but thats a good point
[17:51] <astraljava> craigs63: That can be adjusted.
[17:52] <holstein> maybe a different time for the 2nd meeting
[17:52] <holstein> for those who cant make this meeting
[17:52] <astraljava> We can always agree on the next one in a current meeting.
[17:52] <astraljava> Yeah, holstein's got the point.
[17:53] <astraljava> So, we agree on bi-weekly meetings, the first one to be scheduled in October's meeting.
[17:53] <holstein> i like that
[17:53] <astraljava> #action bi-weekly meetings, the first one to be scheduled in October's meeting.
[17:53] <meetingology> ACTION: bi-weekly meetings, the first one to be scheduled in October's meeting.
[17:53] <scott-upstairs> maybe email the mailing list to give available times for everyoen?
[17:53] <scott-upstairs> ..
[17:53] <holstein> i can check availablility here, and try and field some times
[17:54] <astraljava> scott-upstairs: Absolutely, chair will have to be more active than the (presently lacking) one has been, sorry. :-/
[17:54] <craigs63> Well, bi-weekly means not necessarily falling on the 1st Sunday.
[17:54] <astraljava> Yep, that's the point.
[17:54] <holstein> yeah, we can rotate the chair
[17:54] <holstein> i dont mind doing stuff like that too, since i cant do much other stuff
[17:54] <astraljava> Like for instance Xubuntu-devel has the other on Sundays, and the other on Mondays.
[17:55] <holstein> astraljava: i think you're doing great :)
[17:55] <astraljava> I think we agreed on rotating the chair just for motivational purposes, but that can be discussed later.
[17:55] <astraljava> ..
[17:55] <astraljava> #topic Goals for Oneiric + 1
[17:55] <astraljava> #subtopic live dvd
[17:55] <holstein> i think we table that til later
[17:55] <holstein> til after oneiric
[17:56] <scott-upstairs> table live dvd?
[17:56] <holstein> live DVD is not for now right?
[17:56] <holstein> would that simplifiy our situation at all?
[17:56] <scott-upstairs> can we talk if this is the direction we want to go for oneiric+1?
[17:56] <astraljava> So far it seems that we have agreed to switch to having a live dvd instead of the alternate install
[17:56] <holstein> or make it worse?
[17:56] <shnatsel|busy> holstein: we gotta test it during Oneiric at least, and start it now - or we'll never do it
[17:56] <astraljava> Well, the topic says "Oneiric + 1"
[17:56] <holstein> i think if making a live DVD is easier for us for the oneiric release, lets do it
[17:56] <holstein> otherwise, i dont want to 'rock the boat'
[17:57] <scott-upstairs> holstein, not for oneiric, never will happen
[17:57] <holstein> scott-upstairs: yeah?
[17:57] <holstein> hmmm
[17:57] <astraljava> We don't have time for official live dvd, for sure.
[17:57] <holstein> i mean... i think its the way to go
[17:57] <scott-upstairs> but can we agree as a group that we want to do a live dvd for oneiric+1?
[17:57] <astraljava> But if someone wants to do that as a hobby, by all means.
[17:57] <holstein> scott-upstairs: yeah
[17:57] <holstein> i want that for 12.04
[17:57] <scott-upstairs> +1 from me
[17:57] <astraljava> 0
[17:58] <holstein> not now, unless it drastically simplifies the process
[17:58] <holstein> astraljava: we can talk about it for sure
[17:58] <astraljava> holstein: The talk is on the release _after_ Oneiric.
[17:58] <holstein> i can see either wat
[17:58] <holstein> way*
[17:58] <holstein> but, i think if the new user is the target, the alternate installer is a drag
[17:58] <astraljava> Please keep that in mind.
[17:58] <astraljava> Okay, so far we're +2. Any other votes?
[17:59] <holstein> +1
[17:59] <astraljava> That was already in. :)
[17:59] <holstein> oh... hehe :)
[17:59] <astraljava> falktx: craigs63: shnatsel|busy: others?
[17:59] <shnatsel|busy> Going LiveDVD for Oneiric //means starting now
[17:59] <shnatsel|busy> +1
[17:59] <astraljava> Okay, that one pushed it over the brink, we're going with that then.
[17:59] <holstein> \o/
[18:00] <astraljava> #action switch to using live dvd for Oneiric + 1
[18:00] <meetingology> ACTION: switch to using live dvd for Oneiric + 1
[18:00] <falktx> I can help, surely
[18:00] <falktx> but I need to ask permission for a custom build
[18:00] <scott-upstairs> ..
[18:00] <astraljava> Of course, we will have to keep track on how that progresses from early on, and have alternate as an easy fallback in case things turn awkward.
[18:00] <falktx> UbuntuStudio 11.10 +KXStudio repos (updated apps and some new)
[18:00] <astraljava> ..
[18:00] <falktx> it's like a UbuntuStudio Remix
[18:01] <holstein> hehe
[18:01] <scott-upstairs> shnatsel|busy, i would like to work very closely with you on the live dvd
[18:01] <holstein> we could always have, and encourage community spins
[18:01] <shnatsel|busy> scott-upstairs: awesome!
[18:01] <astraljava> holstein: Sure, but we're discussing official spins here.
[18:01] <holstein> and get falktx in the mix too
[18:02] <holstein> astraljava: sure, but we cant have kxstudio pacagkes in an official spin
[18:02] <astraljava> Images that are spinned by Canonical services.
[18:02] <holstein> we cant add non repo pacakges right?
[18:02] <falktx> holstein: If I make one, I would have to host it. So hosted on kxstudio sourceforge, a US-remix makes sense I guess
[18:02] <astraljava> holstein: I know, that's why we're not including KXStudio in the discussion directly. We can, of course, utilize falktx's excellent knowledge and experience on the matter.
[18:02] <holstein> cool
[18:02] <falktx> astraljava: ^
[18:03] <astraljava> falktx: Noted.
[18:03] <holstein> well, we are at an hour... thats pretty much it?
[18:03] <astraljava> Can I get any ..'s ?
[18:03] <falktx> astraljava: also note that, using PPAs, we are free to do/add anything
[18:03] <astraljava> holstein: Did we ever limit ourselves to an hour?
[18:03] <falktx> astraljava: including VST plugins
[18:03] <holstein> astraljava: nay
[18:03] <holstein> just sayin
[18:03] <astraljava> Sure.
[18:03] <scott-upstairs> ..
[18:03] <holstein> i think scott-upstairs needs to split
[18:03] <astraljava> falktx: Yup, but we cannot, as Ubuntu Studio.
[18:03] <scott-upstairs> i'm good for a bit more
[18:04] <holstein> cool
[18:04] <holstein> me too
[18:04] <astraljava> Right, moving on.
[18:04] <astraljava> #subtopic lowlatency kernel
[18:04] <astraljava> Anyone checked this recently?
[18:04] <scott-upstairs> i'll spearhead this
[18:04] <holstein> i guess we still need it right?
[18:04] <falktx> astraljava: I know, but a community image can, that's the cool thing about it
[18:04] <falktx> I guess...
[18:04] <scott-upstairs> yes, we need it and we will have it for oneiric
[18:04] <holstein> scott-upstairs: w00t
[18:04] <scott-upstairs> i was relying on persia, i'll be more persistent with him
[18:04] <falktx> abogani usually did this
[18:05] <falktx> what happened to him?
[18:05] <scott-upstairs> falktx he made the package, yes
[18:05] <scott-upstairs> but i am doing it now for him
[18:05] <scott-upstairs> and if i can't get persia to commit to anyting
[18:05] <holstein> yeah, he doesnt want to maintain it anymore
[18:05] <scott-upstairs> i'm going to start pushing extremely hard in #ubuntu-motu to review the package in REVU
[18:05] <holstein> scott-upstairs: let me know
[18:05] <scott-upstairs> i plan to move heaven and earth as much as i can to make this happen
[18:05] <holstein> ill mention it to the graners :)
[18:06] <astraljava> #action scott-upstairs to make lowlatency move forward
[18:06] <meetingology> ACTION: scott-upstairs to make lowlatency move forward
[18:06] <astraljava> ..
[18:06] <scott-upstairs> we don't need UKT input for this, just MOTU
[18:06] <scott-upstairs> ..
[18:06] <scott-upstairs> can we skip to launchpad and lbueprints ?
[18:06] <shnatsel|busy> ..
[18:06] <astraljava> scott-upstairs: Sure.
[18:06] <scott-upstairs> i feel it's very important
[18:06] <astraljava> scott-upstairs: Did you include it in the agenda?I'm not seeing it.
[18:07] <shnatsel|busy> I did
[18:07] <shnatsel|busy> astraljava: refresh :)
[18:07] <scott-upstairs> it's down close to bottom
[18:07] <astraljava> shnatsel|busy: Ahh, thanks.
[18:07] <scott-upstairs> shnatsel|busy, should probably table this topic anyways
[18:07] <shnatsel|busy> I feel that US needs more organized workflow inside the project
[18:07] <astraljava> #action skipping a few items, will postpone to October's meeting.
[18:07] <meetingology> ACTION: skipping a few items, will postpone to October's meeting.
[18:07] <astraljava> #topic Improving workflow
[18:08] <astraljava> #subtopic Use a public specification tracker (LP blueprints?)
[18:08] <shnatsel|busy> for example, there's this LiveDVD initiative, but nobody except those who visit the meetings know about it
[18:08] <astraljava> shnatsel|busy: scott-upstairs: Go ahead.
[18:08] <holstein> shnatsel|busy: actually, its been emailed around a few time
[18:08] <shnatsel|busy> there's no place which lists plans for next release
[18:08] <shnatsel|busy> etc
[18:08] <scott-upstairs> or keeps things organized and easy to update
[18:08] <holstein> i think there are, but there are many places
[18:08] <holstein> the wikis get fragmented
[18:08] <holstein> and duplicated
[18:08] <shnatsel|busy> there needs one, open, easy to maintain place
[18:09] <scott-upstairs> but this would be a good way to keep it all together and let people know exactly where to go and update
[18:09] <holstein> its not clear, thats for sure.. i can agree
[18:09] <shnatsel|busy> I have a writeup on that considering different options
[18:09] <shnatsel|busy> http://elementaryos.org/journal/how-see-what%E2%80%99s-our-sleeves
[18:09] <holstein> shnatsel|busy: i like that
[18:09] <shnatsel|busy> We ended up using LP blueprints
[18:09] <scott-upstairs> i've been exploring some blueprints as well and coming to grips with them and specifications
[18:09] <shnatsel|busy> and that really worked
[18:09] <shnatsel|busy> the thing I love about blueprints is that not only they provide a convenient way to track plans and proposals (we have LiveDVD proposal but it's not written down anywhere, the todo list exists only in my mind, etc), but they also make those plans visible to the public.
[18:09] <shnatsel|busy> http://elementaryos.org/journal/how-see-what%E2%80%99s-our-sleeves really worked - people not involved in the project started picking up blueprints and working on them
[18:10] <holstein> shnatsel|busy: what does that mean to us though?
[18:10] <holstein> what would i do to use that?
[18:10]  * holstein looking at https://blueprints.launchpad.net/
[18:10] <shnatsel|busy> holstein: here we come to the next, closely related topic
[18:11] <shnatsel|busy> holstein: workflow guidelines
[18:11] <holstein> :)
[18:11] <astraljava> #subtopic Write/update workflow guidelines
[18:12] <shnatsel|busy> holstein: if you take time to read the blog post behind the link above, you'll see that first it explains the concept of a blueprint, why they are needed and how to use them
[18:12] <shnatsel|busy> holstein: then it explains the desired workflow
[18:12] <holstein> sure, i'll give it a look
[18:13] <shnatsel|busy> holstein: that ensures tjat proposals are seen and plan listings are available for anybody to read
[18:13] <scott-upstairs> +1
[18:14] <shnatsel|busy> holstein: moreover, community contributors can pick up certain tasks
[18:14] <holstein> sure, i like the idea
[18:14] <holstein> +1
[18:14] <holstein> im sure it works well
[18:14] <holstein> we are just so wiki-centric
[18:14] <astraljava> A needless +1
[18:14] <astraljava> This is just a given. :)
[18:15] <shnatsel|busy> I actually thought it will happen, but I was surprised nevertheless when a stranger came and did lots of work that I planned for myself but wrote down to a blueprint anyway
[18:15] <astraljava> shnatsel|busy: Are you willing to drive this issue, so that every member of the team gets familiar with it, and it starts to see actual usage?
[18:15] <holstein> shnatsel|busy: maybe you can talk me through setting one up sometime
[18:16] <shnatsel|busy> astraljava: I hope that my journal post (link above) is sufficient
[18:16] <shnatsel|busy> I can explain any details you need
[18:16] <scott-upstairs> i can help those who want to create one as well
[18:16] <shnatsel|busy> astraljava: we also need a way to communicate with the audience
[18:16] <shnatsel|busy> astraljava: to make all that openness work
[18:17] <falktx> website comments!
[18:17] <shnatsel|busy> falktx: blog-centric website!
[18:17] <craigs63> +1
[18:17] <shnatsel|busy> falktx: posts in newsblogs about us!
[18:17] <holstein> yeah, but it might be a little late
[18:17] <holstein> i mean, we can do that
[18:17] <holstein> but, we need to start over on the site
[18:17] <shnatsel|busy> OMG!Ubuntu! is a good way to give visibility to something.
[18:17] <holstein> and its been *so* long that the currrent one has be borked
[18:17] <falktx> holstein: the new proposal allows comments
[18:18] <astraljava> I will add that as an item for a later meeting, we will not have time for it today.
[18:18] <holstein> i hate to take on a new system, and start over
[18:18] <scott-upstairs> we can make a blog site that is not at our current website
[18:18] <scott-upstairs> like OMGUbuntu
[18:18] <holstein> at this point, i want something new/funtional even if its wrong
[18:18] <falktx> scott-upstairs: what happened to jorge (creator of the site proposal) ?
[18:18] <holstein> falktx: busy :/
[18:18] <holstein> new job?
[18:18] <scott-upstairs> falktx, jorge moved to japan and is too busy with a new job
[18:18] <holstein> something like that
[18:18] <astraljava> ..
[18:19] <holstein> he checks in occaionally though
[18:19] <holstein> and i like that site
[18:19] <falktx> is it possible to have the his website sources?
[18:19] <shnatsel|busy> scott-upstairs: somebody gotta take up where he left
[18:19] <holstein> i remember us talking about blogs back then though
[18:19] <falktx> I'm willing to keep working on the site, but I need sources...
[18:19] <scott-upstairs> shnatsel|busy, are you suggesting we make dedicated blog site or roll it into whatever website we end up with?
[18:19] <holstein> can we remember why we didnt do a blog?
[18:20] <scott-upstairs> i like the former because it can be split between people
[18:20] <shnatsel|busy> scott-upstairs: make the main US website blog-centric for now and use newsblogs to promote the project as well
[18:20] <astraljava> The topic, however isn't on the website, now. Can we discuss that later on?
[18:20] <scott-upstairs> absolutely ...
[18:20] <scott-upstairs> ..
[18:21] <astraljava> I guess we already covered the next subtopic, then.
[18:21] <shnatsel|busy> To sum up, we need workflow guidelines to be written, and lots of deduplication, switching to more user-friendly services, etc
[18:21] <astraljava> #topic Any other business?
[18:21] <astraljava> Sorry, shnatsel|busy, please go on.
[18:21] <holstein> shnatsel|busy: im all for that, and will help anyway i can
[18:22] <holstein> duplication is a drag
[18:22] <astraljava> Agreed, we're lagging behind in that one.
[18:22] <holstein> and when i think about cleaning up our wiki's, i get sad
[18:22] <astraljava> And a good thing to keep in mind with this is that it's not contained in a devel cycle timeframe.
[18:22] <holstein> i would much rather implement something we would like and move forward with that
[18:22] <shnatsel|busy> holstein: then drop it.
[18:22] <holstein> shnatsel|busy: drop what?
[18:22] <shnatsel|busy> holstein: blueprints + links to whatever services where the full specs are stored
[18:23] <shnatsel|busy> holstein: that's the core
[18:23] <shnatsel|busy> holstein: bug tracker rocks
[18:23] <scott-upstairs> drop the wiki he's saying
[18:23] <holstein> yeah.. but can we?
[18:23] <shnatsel|busy> holstein: you also need a blog, that's a website affair
[18:23] <holstein> scott-upstairs: would we just clean out the wikis?
[18:23] <holstein> will someone delete them for us? the pages?
[18:23] <holstein> anyways... for later...
[18:23] <scott-upstairs> i'm sure we can do something
[18:24] <scott-upstairs> we're pushing 90 minutes, i gotta go
[18:24] <holstein> lets just say, this is a good idea for now, and see where it goes
[18:24] <shnatsel|busy> holstein: if you don't like them, don't link to them from main US wiki page
[18:24] <shnatsel|busy> ok
[18:24] <shnatsel|busy> ..
[18:24] <astraljava> Right, so to cut it short, any other business that hasn't been discussed yet?
[18:24] <falktx> delete the wiki? and have the webpage with a wiki contained?
[18:24] <scott-upstairs> shnatsel|busy, i would like to work with you again on the work flow, blueprints, blog direction and develop a good plan to move forward
[18:24] <shnatsel|busy> scott-upstairs: awsum
[18:25] <shnatsel|busy> scott-upstairs: I already did much of that for elementary, so I think we can reuse lots of stuff
[18:25] <astraljava> #action scott-upstairs to drive the usage of blueprints etc. with shnatsel|busy, astraljava (and others who so inspire)
[18:25] <meetingology> ACTION: scott-upstairs to drive the usage of blueprints etc. with shnatsel|busy, astraljava (and others who so inspire)
[18:25] <astraljava> If not, then I'm going to close this meeting.
[18:26] <astraljava> Next meeting is...
[18:26] <astraljava> October 2nd.
[18:26] <astraljava> 17000 UTC.
[18:26] <astraljava> oops
[18:26] <astraljava> 1700 UTC, of course.
[18:26] <astraljava> On #ubuntu-meeting.
[18:27] <holstein> great meeting all... thanks
[18:27] <astraljava> #topic Next Meeting Chair
[18:27] <astraljava> Any volunteers?
[18:27] <holstein> astraljava: im always up for it assuming im home
[18:27] <astraljava> holstein: Thanks.
[18:28] <astraljava> #action holstein to chair the next meeting, unless something surprising happens
[18:28] <meetingology> ACTION: holstein to chair the next meeting, unless something surprising happens
[18:28] <astraljava> #endmeeting
[18:28] <meetingology> Meeting ended Sun Sep  4 18:28:18 2011 UTC.
[18:28] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-09-04-17.01.moin.txt
[18:28] <holstein> we can leave it a little loose for now, and come up with a rotation soon
[18:28] <holstein> something we can reference easily
[18:28] <astraljava> Thanks everyone for attending, and keeping Ubuntu Studio afloat! :)
[18:29] <astraljava> We have a little to learn on how we keep it coherent and more intact, but we're getting there. :)
[18:31] <AlanBell> thanks astraljava, awesome use of the bot :)
[18:31] <astraljava> AlanBell: Thanks so much for providing it! :)
[18:31] <astraljava> It certainly makes life so much easier.
[18:32] <astraljava> Just will have to learn to use it better, and then try to get the team use it more as well.
[18:32] <astraljava> What a wonderful tool.
[18:40] <AlanBell> I want to make the minutes look better, any suggestions would be great
[18:41] <astraljava> I'll give it some thought when I plant it on the wiki.