/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/09/04/#ubuntu-uk.txt

HazRPGfreakyclown: I just thought (showing your talk to one of my friends), in VLC if you do ALT+H, it strips out the UI stuff, so instead of going into fullscreen you can take out the Play/Pause/Stop/etc buttons stuff00:00
HazRPGfreakyclown: to revert back, you can use ALT+H again00:01
HazRPGoops, sorry... typo fail, its CTRL+H00:01
HazRPGjust incase you ever need to do a talk with videos in future, and the fullscreen mode seems to be stripping stuff out... you can do that :)00:01
ballbrb00:03
HazRPGaww, clitrack isn't on the site :(00:29
HazRPGI was intrigued as to what happens to images uploaded to facebook since it essentially shrinks the image down that you've uploaded00:30
ali1234what do you mean "stripping stuff out"?00:49
ali1234you mean if it crops because of aspect ratio?00:50
HazRPGno, the exif, etc data embedded into jpgs01:34
HazRPGmorning \o06:42
MartijnVdSwoo fresh kernel07:02
HazRPG?07:43
popeymorning07:44
MartijnVdS\o popey07:44
MartijnVdSHazRPG: there's a new kernel in oneiric this morning07:44
HazRPGpopey: morning :)07:44
HazRPGMartijnVdS: ah07:44
HazRPGbrb, just going to do a quick reboot07:45
MartijnVdSjust did that :)07:46
MartijnVdSSSD booting \o/07:46
daubersMorning08:30
HazRPGdaubers: morning09:28
HazRPGbah, I'm knackered... trying to fight with 2 different mysql databases is not a fun way to spend a Sunday morning!09:29
HazRPGAlanBell: Just been going through the videos on blip.tv for oggcamp11 (to see what I missed out on :() - Thought your talk was interesting! Trying to organise real-world stuff can be *very* difficult (in my experience) when it comes to people enthusiastic about computers/IT/etc... I think the biggest leap is trying to get/do something that encourages an experience that they couldn't already get at home. Remember, most of us are usually lazy and would09:41
HazRPGAlanBell: What we've started doing at CLUG is having a meet every 2nd and 4th Sunday of the month - but so far we usually get a turn out of say 2-3 people tops at any one time (despite being in a building designed for members only - and with a built in pub!)09:43
brobostigongood morning everyone.09:48
dauberso/09:53
* daubers can go home from work shortly \o/09:53
brobostigon:)09:57
LaneyWhat should I make for Sunday dinner?10:12
popeycurry !10:12
Laneydid curried goat last week10:13
popey\o/ goats!10:15
ali1234curry goat?10:16
Laneyi'm not sure how to respond to that question10:19
HazRPGo.O I just got an e-mail from Google saying the following: http://picpaste.com/Screenshot-6-vexcSbgY.png10:37
HazRPGOh, I forgot I set that up... o.O : http://www.google.com/alerts/10:39
popeyyou have a google alert for your own name? vain ? :D10:39
MyrttiI have one for mine, doesn't everyone have?10:39
Myrtti*shrug*10:39
HazRPGpopey: out of paranoia, when I found out that searching for your name shows your address because of the whole public electoral thing10:40
HazRPGMyrtti: apparently its just us :P10:40
Laneythere are people who don't opt out of the edited register?10:41
HazRPGLaney: Didn't know you could o.O10:44
gordyou're so vain, you probably think this google alert is about you...10:44
popey:D10:44
HazRPGLaney: I bet most probably don't know either...10:44
Laneymaybe people should read forms they fill in10:44
HazRPGLaney: I didn't fill it in, I was automatically registered in...10:45
HazRPGyou think if I filled it in I wouldn't tick the "opt-out" box?10:45
Laneythere's an annual canvas10:45
Laneyif someone else filled it out for you, you should take it up with them10:45
popeymine arrived in the post about 10 mins ago10:46
HazRPGconsidering my sister doesn't vote, and its only me and here that live here... I can't think who'd auto-fill me in10:46
* czajkowski hugs popey and runs away 10:46
HazRPGI even moved house and I get a "vote at your nearest poll" when the next election came through, without me registering that I'd moved10:47
HazRPG... and the house is in my step-dads name o.O10:47
HazRPGalso, I've nagged several times on sites that had my details, along with the local council... and never hear back from any of them10:48
wolfkini need help, I can not type in chinese10:54
Myrttimyyh11:04
MyrttiFinland :-|11:04
jpdsClearly didn't have ibus running.11:09
isleofmandanAnyone answer a quick question about bug reporting?11:39
AlanBello/ isleofmandan11:40
isleofmandanWhen apport collects data, and sends me to launchpad, if I choose an already existing bug it seems that all the data collected by apport is discarded. If I find a new bug, things get attached to the report. Is that normal behaviour?11:41
penguin42I think so12:01
popeyisleofmandan: yes12:03
ali1234isleofmandan: there's a way to add the logs etc to an existing bug report but i forget how12:03
ali1234and it is probably unneccessary anyway12:03
popeyisleofmandan: you can run apport-collect with the bug number I think12:03
popeyor file a new bug and mark it a dupe of the other one12:03
isleofmandanThanks. Just seemed odd to collect the data and not do anything with it.12:04
popeyyeah12:04
popeyisleofmandan: how goes the lug?12:04
isleofmandanI've just done the tweets/email publicity thing. Having our first get together next Sunday morning12:05
isleofmandanhopefully it won't just be me!12:05
popeyhave you asked mark if he's around?12:05
isleofmandanI CC'd him....12:05
popeycool12:05
popeyhe travells a lot I understand12:06
popeyso might not be about12:06
isleofmandanI expect he lives here for 'tax purposes' ;)12:06
popey:D12:08
popeyperhaps12:08
popeydoing a hotblack desiato12:08
isleofmandanlol12:10
MissAngelhi12:24
brobostigonafternoonings MissAngel12:25
MissAngelare there any options for proper kde integration with ubuntu one?12:28
MissAngelor should I stick with dropbox12:28
popeyprobably better off asking in #kubuntu12:30
MissAngelok12:32
bigcalm_lappy486Afternoon popey et al12:33
popeypip pip12:33
bigcalm_lappy486You invaded my dreams last night, how rude12:34
bigcalm_lappy486Actually, I think a lot of people from the pre-oggcamp bbq where invading my dreams12:34
penguin42was it something about the meat?12:42
bigcalm_lappy486Pendulum: there were melting gummy bears12:53
bigcalm_lappy486Doh12:53
bigcalm_lappy486penguin42: there were melting gummy bears12:53
Pendulumbigcalm: you must really love me :P13:07
laptopjjj13:24
=== laptop is now known as Guest74624
daubers\o/13:26
Guest74624ho13:26
* daubers is starting to have success with matt stuffs13:26
* daubers waits for the soldering iron to cool down13:32
tris2468ubuntu car: http://www.flickr.com/photos/jonnyentropy/6112073746/13:43
penguin42melting gummy bears is cruel13:49
suprengrhttp://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-14779014 - doesn't anybody in the police watch Top Gear?  ;)14:02
ali1234http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-14779772 lol14:03
suprengrali1234, now that *is* cool14:04
ali1234not really its just funny14:04
suprengrprobably the best broken down coach..............................................................14:04
suprengr....................................................................... in the world14:05
ali1234stop the coach, get off, wind up the local kids, and then the coach breaks down when they decide to make their getaway14:05
ali1234priceless14:05
ubuntuuk-planet[Matt Daubney] Arduinos, MQTT and Light levels - http://daubers.co.uk/2011/09/04/arduinos-mqtt-and-light-levels/14:09
=== OmNomSequitur is now known as OmNomDeFrog
Featurefreakwoah, dude, it's 4:20 on a sunday, damn my weekend is gone15:20
Featurefreakanyone tried out rhythmbox or other music apps on a low powered netbook, i'm finding banshee is just a bit heavy for my old Eeepc15:20
Featurefreakmmmkay google shows me a few light weight options on omgubuntu, guayadeck, Beatbox, DeadBeef,,, anyone tried any of these?15:29
tris2468Featurefreak: Rhythmbox works fine on my eeepc 70115:33
Featurefreakbanshee works, just it tends to drag down my machine when trying to do other operations15:33
exobuzzubuntu peoples - any of you fancy a demo scene event? http://www.sunrisedemoparty.co.uk/15:34
exobuzznext weekend, luton. going to be good fun15:34
Featurefreakbanshee and rhythmbox have similar RAM profiles when playing back as far as i can tell, but not sure haven't tested rhthmbox for just cpu load.15:34
FeaturefreakHow do i make use of something like RadioTray in Unity? as no tray icons seems to be supported in Unity,15:57
Featurefreaksimilarly AllTray becomes useless15:57
Featurefreakbut just generally, quite a few apps are a bit broken because of unity's lack of a tray15:58
penguin42is it bad when I read CMake as cake ?15:58
Featurefreakpenguin42: nooo, your baking your apps.. and it's a perfect time for Cake15:58
penguin42:-)15:58
penguin42I thought all times were perfect for cake?15:58
Featurefreak:P15:59
* Featurefreak hummms lazy town / lil jon bake a cake(remix) tune16:00
Featurefreakso unless they add notification area support for radio-tray, i'm boned16:01
Featurefreak:(16:01
Featurefreaki really wanted to try it out16:01
Featurefreakwell, moving on to deadbeef16:01
Featurefreakpenguin42: the only time that's not perfect for cake is steak time16:01
penguin42hmm that's a hard one to call16:01
* Featurefreak wishes steak and bj day was real16:02
popeyeh?16:04
Featurefreakarrrg,, that's driving me nuts, now i minimised my music player with teh "minimize to task tray" option enabled,, and yes, it dissapears.. :(16:12
ikoniawhat's going on in the UK today ?16:17
ikoniaabout 5:15 yes ?16:17
jpdsikonia: Yes.16:17
popeydunno16:17
ikoniathere is a daylight shift here so I can't be %100 certain16:18
ikoniait's either 4:15 or 5:1516:18
popeyneither16:18
ikoniaoh16:18
ikoniawhat time is it ?16:19
popey17:1916:19
popey:D16:19
ikoniasmart16:19
ikoniaare you back from camping now, I think you said saturday ?16:19
popeyyeah, back home now16:20
ikoniaso you have connection now without having to be in a field16:20
popeyindeed16:20
ikoniagood break ?16:21
popeyvery16:21
ikonianot long enough, or just enough16:21
popeyfirst place I've been where there is a hot tub in the garden16:21
popeykids _loved_ it16:21
ikoniathat's slick16:22
bigcalmPendulum: oh, but I do :)17:13
awilkinsOoh, nice touch, xchat-gnome packaging drops you into this channel by default now17:17
awilkinsAny one else getting this annoying thing where the auto-dimming on their laptop is inverted with Oneiric?17:18
gordinverted?17:18
awilkinsIt's bright until you touch a key, then it dims17:19
gordweird17:19
awilkinsANd it doesn't turn off when the power is connected either17:19
awilkinsGiving me a headache17:19
gordapt-get install dconf-tools then use dconf-editor to look at the values setup maybe? can't quite remember where they are but something like org.gnome.power-manager or something17:19
awilkinsHmm, now it's the right way round again.. no fade though. Maybe if I turn on Compiz effects17:21
awilkinsOr try UNity 2d17:22
gordcompiz really can't have anything to do with screen brightness17:22
awilkinsIt was the loss of the fade transition that made me suspect it but I know very little17:22
awilkinsGAh, and why can't they make the GTK tree control expand trees on the right cursor key ....17:24
gordawilkins, because you haven't filed a but about it in gtk? ;)17:30
gord"The Toy Store (accessanything) is now listening to your notices on Identi.ca" - i am thrilled...17:30
gord" accessanything17:31
gord    The Toy Store17:31
gord    best catfood online here, just click"17:31
ali1234why is a toy store selling cat food17:41
ali1234thats, like, false advertising, man17:41
DJonesOh dear, El Reg has been hacked19:38
czajkowskialoha19:39
Azelphurlol19:39
AzelphurAnyone recommend a nice sata 3.5 & 2.5 dock?19:40
AzelphurSomething that takes big drives, I have 2TB drives floating about.19:40
AlanBellhttp://wikileaks.org/cable/2010/02/10CHIANGMAI18.html interesting . . .19:58
popeyAlanBell: how so?20:07
popeyplanning on moving to thailand?20:08
brobostigonquestion, why would our adsl modem say, it has a in sync adsl connection, but then as soon as i ping through it, i get 100% packet loss, ?20:09
brobostigonand have an outside ip addr.20:09
* popey tickles aquarius_ 20:12
* aquarius_ is tickled20:12
aquarius_why am I underlined?20:12
AlanBellpopey: read 9 and 1020:12
* AlanBell is blogging it and lacks a headline20:13
aquarius_hm, there's a different aquarius, claiming to be me20:13
AlanBell!ghost20:13
lubotu3If you own an IRC nick that is currently being used, you can make it change nicks by typing: /msg nickserv release <nick> <password> | If you have a dead (ghost) connection, you can make it quit by typing: /msg nickserv ghost <nick> <password> | further help in #freenode20:13
AlanBell"Microsoft Thailand criticise Thailand's pro-open source policies" lacks impact20:13
aquarius_AlanBell, yeah, yeah, I'm gonna; just a little concerned that this other person declares their name as Stuart Langridge20:13
=== aquarius_ is now known as aquarius
aquariusfixed, anyway20:14
aquariusbut hm.20:14
AlanBellyeah, I wouldn't trust that Stuart Langridge bloke at all20:14
AlanBellespecially not with anything flamable20:15
AlanBellanyhow, help me write a headline!20:15
* Laney wonders how to pronounce Xournal20:16
AlanBellzurnal20:16
Laneyaha20:16
LaneyI liked cs-urnal20:16
Laneycszurnal20:16
AlanBellbrobostigon: the adsl layer might be up, but the tcp bit might be screwed20:19
brobostigonAlanBell: yes, that seems to be the case, the avidence agrees.20:20
popeygotcha AlanBell20:21
AlanBell"Microsoft pulling dirty tricks in Thailand"20:22
popeydo you 'pull' dirty tricks?20:28
DJonesEvening popey Did you have a good holiday20:31
popeyvery, yes thanks!20:33
popeyback to work tomorrow :D20:33
DJonesSo likely to be a shock to the system20:34
popeywell, i start on a new job so should be fairly easy :D20:38
mgdmpopey: Cool, up to anything new?20:41
popeystill SAP, new customer20:44
shauno(completely off-topic, but http://www.google.co.nz/ for tomorrow's doodle, today.  Freddie ftw \o/)20:44
popeySAP on Linux though, which makes it bareable20:44
popeyoh nice shauno20:45
mgdmpopey: ah, cool20:48
bigcalmLife isn't fair. I'm having to trash my box model email layout and redo it with a table.20:59
mgdmBreaking: email sucks, film at 1121:00
shaunothat's what you get for putting html in email.  shame on you!21:00
bigcalmshauno: yes, tell that to every client who wants HTML in their emails21:01
AlanBellbigcalm: what are you using for delivery?21:01
bigcalmAlanBell: Um. PHP?21:01
shaunoironically, most of ours don't, because it fails at email-to-sms gateways21:01
mgdmshauno: those are a hideous hack gaffer taped to a hideous hack, so... :)21:02
AlanBellbigcalm: openEMM might be interesting to you21:02
shaunotrying to target sms makes me a happy mutt user :)21:02
AlanBellit is an email marketing platform21:02
AlanBellor spam engine21:02
bigcalmAlanBell: client already has a system in place21:02
AlanBellok21:03
bigcalmI'm meant to be re-skinning their existing stuff. Forgot that email doesn't like the box model21:03
bigcalmDragging this client's site out of 2001 is tricky21:05
ubuntuuk-planet[Alan Bell] Microsoft pulling dirty tricks in Thailand - http://www.theopensourcerer.com/2011/09/04/microsoft-dirty-thai-trick/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=microsoft-dirty-thai-trick21:09
gordthat is a lot of url for one link21:13
AlanBellyeah, sorry about that21:13
AlanBellit is google analytics screwing with the RSS feed21:14
gordno need to apologise ;) just interesting21:14
* AlanBell lines up a followup article about http://wikileaks.org/cable/2009/08/09TOKYO1813.html21:15
gordah, so thats why xbmc freaked out and everything died, forgot to install nvidia drivers21:15
gordimpressive what the open source ones can do though, all the advanced stuff we do in unity worked out of the box, active blur behind the dash and all21:15
roy_hey quick question and i apologise if you get asked this alot but what would you's recommend to someone who wants to develop ubuntu apps for the first time21:46
ballroy_: What kind of apps?21:47
popeyroy_: quickly21:47
popeyroy_: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Quickly21:48
roy_well at the minute it would just be basic things to help get me started in developing in an ubuntu environment21:48
stuartwardroy_: I would suggest contributing to existing projects as a starting point21:49
ali1234quickly is neither quick nor easy to use21:49
ballroy_: developing /what/ though?21:50
ali1234"apps"21:50
* ball snorts21:50
ali1234qt creator is about a million times better than anything else on ubuntu21:51
ali1234pretty much only visual studio is better21:51
roy_just silly things at the minute like a phone book or game21:51
popeymonodevelop :D21:52
ali1234is awful21:53
ali1234basically avoid anything involving gtk21:53
ballDoes Unity use gtk?21:54
ali1234no it uses nux21:54
ali1234and unity2d uses qt21:54
ballIs nux a Canonical thing?21:57
ali1234yes21:57
ballIs it a GUI toolkit... something like awt and Xt lumped together?22:07
AlanBellI think it is *only* for the unity stuff over the top of the desktop22:09
AlanBellwhich is one reason they broke on-screen keyboards22:09
ballbrb22:11
* popey shakes his fist at unity drop shadow again22:16
ali1234according to the docs, nux has a complete reimplementation of the gtk api22:17
ali1234here is a puzzler for you: http://pastebin.com/SQUW70yn22:19
Laney Nux is a graphical user interface toolkit for applications that mixes opengl22:21
Laney hardware acceleration with high quality visual rendering.22:21
LaneyWorld's best package description™22:21
mgdmali1234: a complete reimplementation of GTK+? That sounds a bit... insane22:21
ali1234mgdm: maybe it was a subset22:22
ali1234i dunno, check the docs22:22
* Laney is sad there are no indicators on gnome-panel 3 yet22:22
ali1234and it's only API, not 100% functionality22:22
ballali1234: Was there something they didn't like about the gtk license, or was there a technical rationale?22:30
ali1234i dunno, ask gord22:30
ali1234or #ayatana22:30
AlanBellthere is some technical separation22:30
AlanBellso the workplace switcher does a compiz zoom out of the 4 desktops22:31
gordnux is nothing like gtk no22:31
AlanBellbut not the panel and unity gubbins, that stays where it is22:31
AlanBellis nux useable for anything but unity gord?22:32
ali1234if you want to do low level graphics stuff use qml22:32
gordAlanBell, yup you can use it for other stuff22:32
gordqml is crap for low level graphics...22:33
AlanBellshould onboard be rewritten as a NUX app?22:33
ali1234i don't mean "lets raep the framebuffer" low level22:33
ali1234i mean "let's use simple primitives like rectangles sprites instead of complex widgets"22:33
gordali1234, thats not low level22:34
ali1234i know22:34
ali1234low level is the wrong description22:34
gordAlanBell, is there a need for it? i mean, nux is C++22:34
AlanBellgord: well, onboard is broken with unity because it is in the layer below the nux stuff even though it is always on top22:36
AlanBellshould onboard be part of the unity frame?22:36
AlanBellso a keyboard that pops out of the bottom of the launcher like the dash pops out of the top?22:37
AlanBellthen it would not be subject to layering problems and wouldn't zoom out and be on the wrong desktop or get in the way of other windows etc22:37
gordAlanBell, nah, i mean unless you want that neat integration that you could get - really somehow who really understands how onboard works just needs to fix either onboard/unity to make them play nice22:37
AlanBellonboard is a python app, fairly simple22:38
ali1234on screen keyboard?22:38
AlanBellyeah22:38
ali1234i have a nice touchscreen netbook, i could take a look at that22:39
AlanBellyou can't type into the unity search box with it22:39
ali1234oneiric?22:39
AlanBellyeah22:39
AlanBellworks in Unity 2d22:39
AlanBellin 3d you click in the search box then click onboard and the dash closes22:39
ali1234nux isn't going to help you there22:40
AlanBellnux isn't a simple fix, certainly22:41
ali1234it isn't a fix at all22:41
gordinteresting, i wonder if there is any window hint set on the onboard window so we can detect a click on it22:41
AlanBellwhere would such a hint be set?22:42
ali1234in the window creation22:42
gordin the code somewhere? i'm not at all familiar with how onboard works, or what toolkit it uses22:42
AlanBellpygtk22:43
ali1234is it half decent? or would it be better to just start from scratch22:43
ali1234or just steal whatever meego uses22:43
gordyou can use xprop to find out what hints its setting, xprop -name onboard or whatever it is22:43
AlanBellali1234: it is half decent22:44
AlanBellthere may be better alternatives in the pipeline22:44
ali1234well ok the oneiric installer totally failed on my netbook which already has oneiric, meego and windows 7 installed on it22:47
AlanBellhttp://bazaar.launchpad.net/~onboard/onboard/main/view/head:/Onboard/KbdWindow.py#L1522:48
AlanBellthat is where it sets up the window22:48
ali1234self.window.property_change("_NET_WM_STRUT_PARTIAL",22:49
ali1234bingo22:49
AlanBellhttp://paste.ubuntu.com/682173/22:51
AlanBellgord: xprop output ^^22:51
gordwell no, a window with a strut isn't something we should match on, thats not a good hint - its set by things like docks and panels and stuff22:52
gordAlanBell, doesn't look like there is anything to match against, kind hard to know if a window is onboard or $random_other_thing22:52
gorddoesn't mean that one can't be distro-patched in though22:52
AlanBellwe can do it upstream if that is easier22:53
AlanBellit was written for Ubuntu22:54
gordwill need to figure out whats best when i have window manager guys around me tomorrow :)22:56
AlanBellcool22:56
gordoh wait tomorrow is holidays in the US, maybe tuesday22:56
AlanBellI did the theme update to get colours fonts and super key icons matching the updated Ubuntu branding22:57
ali1234um22:57
ali1234this is bad22:57
ali1234it's so slow that pressing a key often results in 50 of that letter22:58
AlanBellhttp://www.theopensourcerer.com/2011/04/21/ubuntu-natty-in-virtualbox-with-unity/22:58
ali1234keys get stuck down22:58
AlanBellali1234: I was getting that behaviour from a physical keyboard with oneirirc22:58
AlanBellcouldn't type in my password22:58
ali1234never seen that22:59
ali1234been testing since a322:59
gordwe'll need to make sure onboard is always on top of unity too22:59
AlanBellthat was when running it in virtualbox22:59
AlanBellbug 73981223:00
lubotu3Launchpad bug 739812 in unity "Must use hardware keyboard to perform search for applications in Unity" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/73981223:00
ali1234also it is horribly layed out23:00
AlanBellali1234: it is *far* from perfect23:00
AlanBellbut it is in the repos and on the disk23:00
AlanBelland does support different themes and layouts and scanning keyboards23:01
ali1234scanning keyboards?23:01
AlanBellfor use with a switch, it highlights a row at a time and you click when the row you want is there, then it scans columns and you click the letter you want23:02
ali1234the theming is uneccessary anyway23:02
AlanBellStephen Hawkin stuff23:02
AlanBellthe theming is unneccessary, the layouts are important though23:02
AlanBellscanning I am not sure needs to be on the disk23:03
AlanBellbut it does need to do international layouts23:03
hamitrondoes anyone know the keyboard controls for codemasters Jonah Lomu Rugby for DOS? ;)23:05
gingif the answer is yes for anyone you need to get out more23:06
hamitron:/23:06
hamitronnothing wrong with the odd gaming session23:06
hamitron:)23:06
ali1234could OSK be implemented as a unity lense?23:12
gordno23:12
ali1234maybe not technically a lense, but a button on the launcher that you press it and the kb slides out23:12
gordyou could, but you might as well just write an application that does that, then have a launcher to launch it23:15
ali1234it needs to be able to be hidden easily too23:18
ali1234you can't hide an app by clicking on the launcher23:18
ali1234you can put a big minimize button on the app but that wastes space you could use for something useful like bigger keys23:19
ali1234in the end it's pointless though since unity is unusable on a touch screen anyway23:19
ali1234so i dunno why i'm even considering it23:20
AlanBellI think that is a 12.10 suggestion23:21
ali1234"make unity work on tablets"?23:22
AlanBellimplement a keyboard as part of unity23:23
ali1234the tablet fad will be over by then and it will be something else23:23
AlanBellI don't quite understand why it is broken on tablets when they got so excited by multi-touch for a few weeks23:24
ali1234because whoever is designing it has no clear plan or direction23:24
gordmulti-touch comes through synaptics not touch-screens23:24
gordie: apple touch pads and such23:25
AlanBelland the Dell XT223:25
AlanBellhttp://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/45523:25
gordstuff like that yeah, at the moment, unity really isn't designed for devices that only have a touch screen23:26
gordit would be great to have it work nicely on such things though, but there are only so many hours in the day and right now we are focused on more important stuff like making 11.10 as nice as we can23:27
AlanBellbut only because it auto-hides the launcher and won't let you get it back23:27
ali1234and the menus23:27
ali1234don't forget those23:27
AlanBellthem too23:27
ali1234and the window buttons23:27
AlanBellsame as menus really23:27
ali1234if you maximize a window on a tablet you are stuffed23:28
AlanBelloh and scroll bars23:28
AlanBellbut there are gestures for those23:28
ali1234can't close it, cant minimize it, can't access the launcher cause it's hidden23:28
ali1234oh yeah scroll bars too23:28
ali1234does anyone else ever try to resize a window using the right edge and get blocked by the scroll bar?23:29
AlanBellbut apart from the launcher, scroll bars, menus, window buttons it is perfect!23:29
ali1234if you go a bit too far23:29
AlanBelland on screen keyboard23:29
gordlike i said, not designed for a touch only device :)23:29
AlanBell:)23:29
AlanBellnight all o/23:29
ali1234i'm having great difficulty understanding what it is designed for23:30
ali1234oneiric no longer works properly on my netbooks because the dash is now too big23:30
gordyeah but i could come to you with a delicious cake and you would complain that its not a spanner ;)23:30
ballMmmmm... cake. :-923:30
ali1234i don't really believe that unity was designed at all23:31
ali1234i think rather it's a collection of ideas that some bunch of people came up with23:31
ali1234and didn't consider how they would all work together23:31
ali1234some of the ideas are good23:32
ali1234some of them are just poorly implemented23:32
ali1234and some of them are just plain awful23:32
gordwow, i got to the minus world in super mario bros! i'v been trying to do that for years23:32
ballA few people have asked me "what's the deal with that Unity thing?" (they're American ;-)  I'm guessing it facilitates a move away from Gnome.  Is that just because Gnome's heading off in a direction that doesn't suit Canonical (or Ubuntu)?23:34
gordits not a move away from gnome really, we are still based on gnome, we use gnome applications, libraries, daemons. its just different shells for those applications to live in23:41
gordubuntu has always done things differently from gnome23:41
ballgord: In that Ubuntu used a modified Gnome desktop?23:42
gordball, yeah, with its own tech, like notify-osd and indicators23:42
ballI think I know what notify-osd is.  Not sure about indicators (except on a car ;-)23:43
gordthe icons in the top right for your power and network and blutooth, all that stuff23:43
gordactually everything in the top right is an indicator23:43
ballAh, I've seen those.23:44
ballDidn't know they had a name.23:45
ball...or that they weren't part of Gnome23:46
ball(I've had limited Gnome experience)23:46
ali1234gnome has virtually identical icons just implemented in a different way23:47
ballDoes Unity handle those in a way that's compatible with Ubuntu?23:47
ali1234whut?23:48
ball(with X clients that were written with Ubuntu in mind... with the way that Ubuntu did those things with Gnome)23:48
ball(indicators)23:48
ali1234no, it doesn't23:48
ali1234old style gnome panel applets aren't even supported on gnome323:48
ali1234and systray stuff is specifically blacklisted23:49
ali1234actually there's a whitelist for allowed applications23:49
AzelphurAnyone happen to know of a SATA/IDE dock with USB3 support?23:49
Azelphurbeen trying to find one :(23:49
ali1234so unity can do it, but the functionality has been disabled23:49
ali1234Azelphur: use esata23:49
gordi know a nice case that has four loading bays for sata drives Azelphur :)23:49
ballUSB 3.0 had been handy at work.23:49
Azelphurgord: :P23:50
ballJobs that used to take twelve hours are now down to five hours.23:50
Azelphurali1234: I don't even know if the eSATA is wired up on my PC, haha23:50
Azelphurbut eSATA isn't available everywhere23:50
Azelphurwhere as USB is23:50
=== christel is now known as evilchristel
gordusb 3 isn't ;)23:51
gordis usb3 downgradable? i'v no idea23:51
Azelphurit is23:51
Azelphurso it'll plug into a USB2 port23:52
gordfunky, though running sata drives off usb2 can't be pretty23:52
Azelphur*shrug* I just want to be able to copy large amounts of data without disassembling things23:53
AzelphurI don't mind waiting either :P23:53
ballgord: It's backwards compatible, which is somewhat useful.23:53
* ball shudders at the thought of disks on a USB 1.1 port.23:54
Azelphurthink I'll just have to get one that only does sata and screw ide :p23:54
gordcould you not just set up a nas? or does it need to be super portable or something23:54
Azelphuride is ancient anyway \o/23:54
Azelphurgord: I want a one stop shop for PC repair / general usefulness23:54
Azelphurso yea, portable23:54
ballAzelphur: `I wouldn't expect to find USB 3.0 on a PATA adaptor.23:54
gordah, i have ubuntu on a usb stick for that23:55
Azelphurgord: I have that too, but that unfortunately doesn't make hard drives magically connect to computers :P23:55
ballOh well, time to go and try to attach my wife's numberplate to her van.23:56
gordwhy is amazon recommending "ping pong balls for cats" to me... they can't even hold the bats23:57
* ball coughs up a furball from laughing23:57
* ball fur23:58

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