[00:00] <HazRPG> freakyclown: I just thought (showing your talk to one of my friends), in VLC if you do ALT+H, it strips out the UI stuff, so instead of going into fullscreen you can take out the Play/Pause/Stop/etc buttons stuff
[00:01] <HazRPG> freakyclown: to revert back, you can use ALT+H again
[00:01] <HazRPG> oops, sorry... typo fail, its CTRL+H
[00:01] <HazRPG> just incase you ever need to do a talk with videos in future, and the fullscreen mode seems to be stripping stuff out... you can do that :)
[00:03] <ball> brb
[00:29] <HazRPG> aww, clitrack isn't on the site :(
[00:30] <HazRPG> I was intrigued as to what happens to images uploaded to facebook since it essentially shrinks the image down that you've uploaded
[00:49] <ali1234> what do you mean "stripping stuff out"?
[00:50] <ali1234> you mean if it crops because of aspect ratio?
[01:34] <HazRPG> no, the exif, etc data embedded into jpgs
[06:42] <HazRPG> morning \o
[07:02] <MartijnVdS> woo fresh kernel
[07:43] <HazRPG> ?
[07:44] <popey> morning
[07:44] <MartijnVdS> \o popey
[07:44] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: there's a new kernel in oneiric this morning
[07:44] <HazRPG> popey: morning :)
[07:44] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: ah
[07:45] <HazRPG> brb, just going to do a quick reboot
[07:46] <MartijnVdS> just did that :)
[07:46] <MartijnVdS> SSD booting \o/
[08:30] <daubers> Morning
[09:28] <HazRPG> daubers: morning
[09:29] <HazRPG> bah, I'm knackered... trying to fight with 2 different mysql databases is not a fun way to spend a Sunday morning!
[09:41] <HazRPG> AlanBell: Just been going through the videos on blip.tv for oggcamp11 (to see what I missed out on :() - Thought your talk was interesting! Trying to organise real-world stuff can be *very* difficult (in my experience) when it comes to people enthusiastic about computers/IT/etc... I think the biggest leap is trying to get/do something that encourages an experience that they couldn't already get at home. Remember, most of us are usually lazy and would
[09:43] <HazRPG> AlanBell: What we've started doing at CLUG is having a meet every 2nd and 4th Sunday of the month - but so far we usually get a turn out of say 2-3 people tops at any one time (despite being in a building designed for members only - and with a built in pub!)
[09:48] <brobostigon> good morning everyone.
[09:53] <daubers> o/
[09:53]  * daubers can go home from work shortly \o/
[09:57] <brobostigon> :)
[10:12] <Laney> What should I make for Sunday dinner?
[10:12] <popey> curry !
[10:13] <Laney> did curried goat last week
[10:15] <popey> \o/ goats!
[10:16] <ali1234> curry goat?
[10:19] <Laney> i'm not sure how to respond to that question
[10:37] <HazRPG> o.O I just got an e-mail from Google saying the following: http://picpaste.com/Screenshot-6-vexcSbgY.png
[10:39] <HazRPG> Oh, I forgot I set that up... o.O : http://www.google.com/alerts/
[10:39] <popey> you have a google alert for your own name? vain ? :D
[10:39] <Myrtti> I have one for mine, doesn't everyone have?
[10:39] <Myrtti> *shrug*
[10:40] <HazRPG> popey: out of paranoia, when I found out that searching for your name shows your address because of the whole public electoral thing
[10:40] <HazRPG> Myrtti: apparently its just us :P
[10:41] <Laney> there are people who don't opt out of the edited register?
[10:44] <HazRPG> Laney: Didn't know you could o.O
[10:44] <gord> you're so vain, you probably think this google alert is about you...
[10:44] <popey> :D
[10:44] <HazRPG> Laney: I bet most probably don't know either...
[10:44] <Laney> maybe people should read forms they fill in
[10:45] <HazRPG> Laney: I didn't fill it in, I was automatically registered in...
[10:45] <HazRPG> you think if I filled it in I wouldn't tick the "opt-out" box?
[10:45] <Laney> there's an annual canvas
[10:45] <Laney> if someone else filled it out for you, you should take it up with them
[10:46] <popey> mine arrived in the post about 10 mins ago
[10:46] <HazRPG> considering my sister doesn't vote, and its only me and here that live here... I can't think who'd auto-fill me in
[10:46]  * czajkowski hugs popey and runs away 
[10:47] <HazRPG> I even moved house and I get a "vote at your nearest poll" when the next election came through, without me registering that I'd moved
[10:47] <HazRPG> ... and the house is in my step-dads name o.O
[10:48] <HazRPG> also, I've nagged several times on sites that had my details, along with the local council... and never hear back from any of them
[10:54] <wolfkin> i need help, I can not type in chinese
[11:04] <Myrtti> myyh
[11:04] <Myrtti> Finland :-|
[11:09] <jpds> Clearly didn't have ibus running.
[11:39] <isleofmandan> Anyone answer a quick question about bug reporting?
[11:40] <AlanBell> o/ isleofmandan
[11:41] <isleofmandan> When apport collects data, and sends me to launchpad, if I choose an already existing bug it seems that all the data collected by apport is discarded. If I find a new bug, things get attached to the report. Is that normal behaviour?
[12:01] <penguin42> I think so
[12:03] <popey> isleofmandan: yes
[12:03] <ali1234> isleofmandan: there's a way to add the logs etc to an existing bug report but i forget how
[12:03] <ali1234> and it is probably unneccessary anyway
[12:03] <popey> isleofmandan: you can run apport-collect with the bug number I think
[12:03] <popey> or file a new bug and mark it a dupe of the other one
[12:04] <isleofmandan> Thanks. Just seemed odd to collect the data and not do anything with it.
[12:04] <popey> yeah
[12:04] <popey> isleofmandan: how goes the lug?
[12:05] <isleofmandan> I've just done the tweets/email publicity thing. Having our first get together next Sunday morning
[12:05] <isleofmandan> hopefully it won't just be me!
[12:05] <popey> have you asked mark if he's around?
[12:05] <isleofmandan> I CC'd him....
[12:05] <popey> cool
[12:06] <popey> he travells a lot I understand
[12:06] <popey> so might not be about
[12:06] <isleofmandan> I expect he lives here for 'tax purposes' ;)
[12:08] <popey> :D
[12:08] <popey> perhaps
[12:08] <popey> doing a hotblack desiato
[12:10] <isleofmandan> lol
[12:24] <MissAngel> hi
[12:25] <brobostigon> afternoonings MissAngel
[12:28] <MissAngel> are there any options for proper kde integration with ubuntu one?
[12:28] <MissAngel> or should I stick with dropbox
[12:30] <popey> probably better off asking in #kubuntu
[12:32] <MissAngel> ok
[12:33] <bigcalm_lappy486> Afternoon popey et al
[12:33] <popey> pip pip
[12:34] <bigcalm_lappy486> You invaded my dreams last night, how rude
[12:34] <bigcalm_lappy486> Actually, I think a lot of people from the pre-oggcamp bbq where invading my dreams
[12:42] <penguin42> was it something about the meat?
[12:53] <bigcalm_lappy486> Pendulum: there were melting gummy bears
[12:53] <bigcalm_lappy486> Doh
[12:53] <bigcalm_lappy486> penguin42: there were melting gummy bears
[13:07] <Pendulum> bigcalm: you must really love me :P
[13:24] <laptop> jjj
[13:26] <daubers> \o/
[13:26] <Guest74624> ho
[13:26]  * daubers is starting to have success with matt stuffs
[13:32]  * daubers waits for the soldering iron to cool down
[13:43] <tris2468> ubuntu car: http://www.flickr.com/photos/jonnyentropy/6112073746/
[13:49] <penguin42> melting gummy bears is cruel
[14:02] <suprengr> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-14779014 - doesn't anybody in the police watch Top Gear?  ;)
[14:03] <ali1234> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-14779772 lol
[14:04] <suprengr> ali1234, now that *is* cool
[14:04] <ali1234> not really its just funny
[14:04] <suprengr> probably the best broken down coach..............................................................
[14:05] <suprengr> ....................................................................... in the world
[14:05] <ali1234> stop the coach, get off, wind up the local kids, and then the coach breaks down when they decide to make their getaway
[14:05] <ali1234> priceless
[14:09] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Matt Daubney] Arduinos, MQTT and Light levels - http://daubers.co.uk/2011/09/04/arduinos-mqtt-and-light-levels/
[15:20] <Featurefreak> woah, dude, it's 4:20 on a sunday, damn my weekend is gone
[15:20] <Featurefreak> anyone tried out rhythmbox or other music apps on a low powered netbook, i'm finding banshee is just a bit heavy for my old Eeepc
[15:29] <Featurefreak> mmmkay google shows me a few light weight options on omgubuntu, guayadeck, Beatbox, DeadBeef,,, anyone tried any of these?
[15:33] <tris2468> Featurefreak: Rhythmbox works fine on my eeepc 701
[15:33] <Featurefreak> banshee works, just it tends to drag down my machine when trying to do other operations
[15:34] <exobuzz> ubuntu peoples - any of you fancy a demo scene event? http://www.sunrisedemoparty.co.uk/
[15:34] <exobuzz> next weekend, luton. going to be good fun
[15:34] <Featurefreak> banshee and rhythmbox have similar RAM profiles when playing back as far as i can tell, but not sure haven't tested rhthmbox for just cpu load.
[15:57] <Featurefreak> How do i make use of something like RadioTray in Unity? as no tray icons seems to be supported in Unity,
[15:57] <Featurefreak> similarly AllTray becomes useless
[15:58] <Featurefreak> but just generally, quite a few apps are a bit broken because of unity's lack of a tray
[15:58] <penguin42> is it bad when I read CMake as cake ?
[15:58] <Featurefreak> penguin42: nooo, your baking your apps.. and it's a perfect time for Cake
[15:58] <penguin42> :-)
[15:58] <penguin42> I thought all times were perfect for cake?
[15:59] <Featurefreak> :P
[16:00]  * Featurefreak hummms lazy town / lil jon  bake a cake(remix)   tune
[16:01] <Featurefreak> so unless they add notification area support for radio-tray, i'm boned
[16:01] <Featurefreak> :(
[16:01] <Featurefreak> i really wanted to try it out
[16:01] <Featurefreak> well, moving on to deadbeef
[16:01] <Featurefreak> penguin42: the only time that's not perfect for cake is steak time
[16:01] <penguin42> hmm that's a hard one to call
[16:02]  * Featurefreak wishes steak and bj day was real
[16:04] <popey> eh?
[16:12] <Featurefreak> arrrg,, that's driving me nuts, now i minimised my music player with teh "minimize to task tray" option enabled,, and yes, it dissapears.. :(
[16:17] <ikonia> what's going on in the UK today ?
[16:17] <ikonia> about 5:15 yes ?
[16:17] <jpds> ikonia: Yes.
[16:17] <popey> dunno
[16:18] <ikonia> there is a daylight shift here so I can't be %100 certain
[16:18] <ikonia> it's either 4:15 or 5:15
[16:18] <popey> neither
[16:18] <ikonia> oh
[16:19] <ikonia> what time is it ?
[16:19] <popey> 17:19
[16:19] <popey> :D
[16:19] <ikonia> smart
[16:19] <ikonia> are you back from camping now, I think you said saturday ?
[16:20] <popey> yeah, back home now
[16:20] <ikonia> so you have connection now without having to be in a field
[16:20] <popey> indeed
[16:21] <ikonia> good break ?
[16:21] <popey> very
[16:21] <ikonia> not long enough, or just enough
[16:21] <popey> first place I've been where there is a hot tub in the garden
[16:21] <popey> kids _loved_ it
[16:22] <ikonia> that's slick
[17:13] <bigcalm> Pendulum: oh, but I do :)
[17:17] <awilkins> Ooh, nice touch, xchat-gnome packaging drops you into this channel by default now
[17:18] <awilkins> Any one else getting this annoying thing where the auto-dimming on their laptop is inverted with Oneiric?
[17:18] <gord> inverted?
[17:19] <awilkins> It's bright until you touch a key, then it dims
[17:19] <gord> weird
[17:19] <awilkins> ANd it doesn't turn off when the power is connected either
[17:19] <awilkins> Giving me a headache
[17:19] <gord> apt-get install dconf-tools then use dconf-editor to look at the values setup maybe? can't quite remember where they are but something like org.gnome.power-manager or something
[17:21] <awilkins> Hmm, now it's the right way round again.. no fade though. Maybe if I turn on Compiz effects
[17:22] <awilkins> Or try UNity 2d
[17:22] <gord> compiz really can't have anything to do with screen brightness
[17:22] <awilkins> It was the loss of the fade transition that made me suspect it but I know very little
[17:24] <awilkins> GAh, and why can't they make the GTK tree control expand trees on the right cursor key ....
[17:30] <gord> awilkins, because you haven't filed a but about it in gtk? ;)
[17:30] <gord> "The Toy Store (accessanything) is now listening to your notices on Identi.ca" - i am thrilled...
[17:31] <gord> " accessanything
[17:31] <gord>     The Toy Store
[17:31] <gord>     best catfood online here, just click"
[17:41] <ali1234> why is a toy store selling cat food
[17:41] <ali1234> thats, like, false advertising, man
[19:38] <DJones> Oh dear, El Reg has been hacked
[19:39] <czajkowski> aloha
[19:39] <Azelphur> lol
[19:40] <Azelphur> Anyone recommend a nice sata 3.5 & 2.5 dock?
[19:40] <Azelphur> Something that takes big drives, I have 2TB drives floating about.
[19:58] <AlanBell> http://wikileaks.org/cable/2010/02/10CHIANGMAI18.html interesting . . .
[20:07] <popey> AlanBell: how so?
[20:08] <popey> planning on moving to thailand?
[20:09] <brobostigon> question, why would our adsl modem say, it has a in sync adsl connection, but then as soon as i ping through it, i get 100% packet loss, ?
[20:09] <brobostigon> and have an outside ip addr.
[20:12]  * popey tickles aquarius_ 
[20:12]  * aquarius_ is tickled
[20:12] <aquarius_> why am I underlined?
[20:12] <AlanBell> popey: read 9 and 10
[20:13]  * AlanBell is blogging it and lacks a headline
[20:13] <aquarius_> hm, there's a different aquarius, claiming to be me
[20:13] <AlanBell> !ghost
[20:13] <AlanBell> "Microsoft Thailand criticise Thailand's pro-open source policies" lacks impact
[20:13] <aquarius_> AlanBell, yeah, yeah, I'm gonna; just a little concerned that this other person declares their name as Stuart Langridge
[20:14] <aquarius> fixed, anyway
[20:14] <aquarius> but hm.
[20:14] <AlanBell> yeah, I wouldn't trust that Stuart Langridge bloke at all
[20:15] <AlanBell> especially not with anything flamable
[20:15] <AlanBell> anyhow, help me write a headline!
[20:16]  * Laney wonders how to pronounce Xournal
[20:16] <AlanBell> zurnal
[20:16] <Laney> aha
[20:16] <Laney> I liked cs-urnal
[20:16] <Laney> cszurnal
[20:19] <AlanBell> brobostigon: the adsl layer might be up, but the tcp bit might be screwed
[20:20] <brobostigon> AlanBell: yes, that seems to be the case, the avidence agrees.
[20:21] <popey> gotcha AlanBell
[20:22] <AlanBell> "Microsoft pulling dirty tricks in Thailand"
[20:28] <popey> do you 'pull' dirty tricks?
[20:31] <DJones> Evening popey Did you have a good holiday
[20:33] <popey> very, yes thanks!
[20:33] <popey> back to work tomorrow :D
[20:34] <DJones> So likely to be a shock to the system
[20:38] <popey> well, i start on a new job so should be fairly easy :D
[20:41] <mgdm> popey: Cool, up to anything new?
[20:44] <popey> still SAP, new customer
[20:44] <shauno> (completely off-topic, but http://www.google.co.nz/ for tomorrow's doodle, today.  Freddie ftw \o/)
[20:44] <popey> SAP on Linux though, which makes it bareable
[20:45] <popey> oh nice shauno
[20:48] <mgdm> popey: ah, cool
[20:59] <bigcalm> Life isn't fair. I'm having to trash my box model email layout and redo it with a table.
[21:00] <mgdm> Breaking: email sucks, film at 11
[21:00] <shauno> that's what you get for putting html in email.  shame on you!
[21:01] <bigcalm> shauno: yes, tell that to every client who wants HTML in their emails
[21:01] <AlanBell> bigcalm: what are you using for delivery?
[21:01] <bigcalm> AlanBell: Um. PHP?
[21:01] <shauno> ironically, most of ours don't, because it fails at email-to-sms gateways
[21:02] <mgdm> shauno: those are a hideous hack gaffer taped to a hideous hack, so... :)
[21:02] <AlanBell> bigcalm: openEMM might be interesting to you
[21:02] <shauno> trying to target sms makes me a happy mutt user :)
[21:02] <AlanBell> it is an email marketing platform
[21:02] <AlanBell> or spam engine
[21:02] <bigcalm> AlanBell: client already has a system in place
[21:03] <AlanBell> ok
[21:03] <bigcalm> I'm meant to be re-skinning their existing stuff. Forgot that email doesn't like the box model
[21:05] <bigcalm> Dragging this client's site out of 2001 is tricky
[21:09] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Alan Bell] Microsoft pulling dirty tricks in Thailand - http://www.theopensourcerer.com/2011/09/04/microsoft-dirty-thai-trick/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=microsoft-dirty-thai-trick
[21:13] <gord> that is a lot of url for one link
[21:13] <AlanBell> yeah, sorry about that
[21:14] <AlanBell> it is google analytics screwing with the RSS feed
[21:14] <gord> no need to apologise ;) just interesting
[21:15]  * AlanBell lines up a followup article about http://wikileaks.org/cable/2009/08/09TOKYO1813.html
[21:15] <gord> ah, so thats why xbmc freaked out and everything died, forgot to install nvidia drivers
[21:15] <gord> impressive what the open source ones can do though, all the advanced stuff we do in unity worked out of the box, active blur behind the dash and all
[21:46] <roy_> hey quick question and i apologise if you get asked this alot but what would you's recommend to someone who wants to develop ubuntu apps for the first time
[21:47] <ball> roy_: What kind of apps?
[21:47] <popey> roy_: quickly
[21:48] <popey> roy_: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Quickly
[21:48] <roy_> well at the minute it would just be basic things to help get me started in developing in an ubuntu environment
[21:49] <stuartward> roy_: I would suggest contributing to existing projects as a starting point
[21:49] <ali1234> quickly is neither quick nor easy to use
[21:50] <ball> roy_: developing /what/ though?
[21:50] <ali1234> "apps"
[21:50]  * ball snorts
[21:51] <ali1234> qt creator is about a million times better than anything else on ubuntu
[21:51] <ali1234> pretty much only visual studio is better
[21:51] <roy_> just silly things at the minute like a phone book or game
[21:52] <popey> monodevelop :D
[21:53] <ali1234> is awful
[21:53] <ali1234> basically avoid anything involving gtk
[21:54] <ball> Does Unity use gtk?
[21:54] <ali1234> no it uses nux
[21:54] <ali1234> and unity2d uses qt
[21:57] <ball> Is nux a Canonical thing?
[21:57] <ali1234> yes
[22:07] <ball> Is it a GUI toolkit... something like awt and Xt lumped together?
[22:09] <AlanBell> I think it is *only* for the unity stuff over the top of the desktop
[22:09] <AlanBell> which is one reason they broke on-screen keyboards
[22:11] <ball> brb
[22:16]  * popey shakes his fist at unity drop shadow again
[22:17] <ali1234> according to the docs, nux has a complete reimplementation of the gtk api
[22:19] <ali1234> here is a puzzler for you: http://pastebin.com/SQUW70yn
[22:21] <Laney>  Nux is a graphical user interface toolkit for applications that mixes opengl
[22:21] <Laney>  hardware acceleration with high quality visual rendering.
[22:21] <Laney> World's best package description™
[22:21] <mgdm> ali1234: a complete reimplementation of GTK+? That sounds a bit... insane
[22:22] <ali1234> mgdm: maybe it was a subset
[22:22] <ali1234> i dunno, check the docs
[22:22]  * Laney is sad there are no indicators on gnome-panel 3 yet
[22:22] <ali1234> and it's only API, not 100% functionality
[22:30] <ball> ali1234: Was there something they didn't like about the gtk license, or was there a technical rationale?
[22:30] <ali1234> i dunno, ask gord
[22:30] <ali1234> or #ayatana
[22:30] <AlanBell> there is some technical separation
[22:31] <AlanBell> so the workplace switcher does a compiz zoom out of the 4 desktops
[22:31] <gord> nux is nothing like gtk no
[22:31] <AlanBell> but not the panel and unity gubbins, that stays where it is
[22:32] <AlanBell> is nux useable for anything but unity gord?
[22:32] <ali1234> if you want to do low level graphics stuff use qml
[22:32] <gord> AlanBell, yup you can use it for other stuff
[22:33] <gord> qml is crap for low level graphics...
[22:33] <AlanBell> should onboard be rewritten as a NUX app?
[22:33] <ali1234> i don't mean "lets raep the framebuffer" low level
[22:33] <ali1234> i mean "let's use simple primitives like rectangles sprites instead of complex widgets"
[22:34] <gord> ali1234, thats not low level
[22:34] <ali1234> i know
[22:34] <ali1234> low level is the wrong description
[22:34] <gord> AlanBell, is there a need for it? i mean, nux is C++
[22:36] <AlanBell> gord: well, onboard is broken with unity because it is in the layer below the nux stuff even though it is always on top
[22:36] <AlanBell> should onboard be part of the unity frame?
[22:37] <AlanBell> so a keyboard that pops out of the bottom of the launcher like the dash pops out of the top?
[22:37] <AlanBell> then it would not be subject to layering problems and wouldn't zoom out and be on the wrong desktop or get in the way of other windows etc
[22:37] <gord> AlanBell, nah, i mean unless you want that neat integration that you could get - really somehow who really understands how onboard works just needs to fix either onboard/unity to make them play nice
[22:38] <AlanBell> onboard is a python app, fairly simple
[22:38] <ali1234> on screen keyboard?
[22:38] <AlanBell> yeah
[22:39] <ali1234> i have a nice touchscreen netbook, i could take a look at that
[22:39] <AlanBell> you can't type into the unity search box with it
[22:39] <ali1234> oneiric?
[22:39] <AlanBell> yeah
[22:39] <AlanBell> works in Unity 2d
[22:39] <AlanBell> in 3d you click in the search box then click onboard and the dash closes
[22:40] <ali1234> nux isn't going to help you there
[22:41] <AlanBell> nux isn't a simple fix, certainly
[22:41] <ali1234> it isn't a fix at all
[22:41] <gord> interesting, i wonder if there is any window hint set on the onboard window so we can detect a click on it
[22:42] <AlanBell> where would such a hint be set?
[22:42] <ali1234> in the window creation
[22:42] <gord> in the code somewhere? i'm not at all familiar with how onboard works, or what toolkit it uses
[22:43] <AlanBell> pygtk
[22:43] <ali1234> is it half decent? or would it be better to just start from scratch
[22:43] <ali1234> or just steal whatever meego uses
[22:43] <gord> you can use xprop to find out what hints its setting, xprop -name onboard or whatever it is
[22:44] <AlanBell> ali1234: it is half decent
[22:44] <AlanBell> there may be better alternatives in the pipeline
[22:47] <ali1234> well ok the oneiric installer totally failed on my netbook which already has oneiric, meego and windows 7 installed on it
[22:48] <AlanBell> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~onboard/onboard/main/view/head:/Onboard/KbdWindow.py#L15
[22:48] <AlanBell> that is where it sets up the window
[22:49] <ali1234> self.window.property_change("_NET_WM_STRUT_PARTIAL",
[22:49] <ali1234> bingo
[22:51] <AlanBell> http://paste.ubuntu.com/682173/
[22:51] <AlanBell> gord: xprop output ^^
[22:52] <gord> well no, a window with a strut isn't something we should match on, thats not a good hint - its set by things like docks and panels and stuff
[22:52] <gord> AlanBell, doesn't look like there is anything to match against, kind hard to know if a window is onboard or $random_other_thing
[22:52] <gord> doesn't mean that one can't be distro-patched in though
[22:53] <AlanBell> we can do it upstream if that is easier
[22:54] <AlanBell> it was written for Ubuntu
[22:56] <gord> will need to figure out whats best when i have window manager guys around me tomorrow :)
[22:56] <AlanBell> cool
[22:56] <gord> oh wait tomorrow is holidays in the US, maybe tuesday
[22:57] <AlanBell> I did the theme update to get colours fonts and super key icons matching the updated Ubuntu branding
[22:57] <ali1234> um
[22:57] <ali1234> this is bad
[22:58] <ali1234> it's so slow that pressing a key often results in 50 of that letter
[22:58] <AlanBell> http://www.theopensourcerer.com/2011/04/21/ubuntu-natty-in-virtualbox-with-unity/
[22:58] <ali1234> keys get stuck down
[22:58] <AlanBell> ali1234: I was getting that behaviour from a physical keyboard with oneirirc
[22:58] <AlanBell> couldn't type in my password
[22:59] <ali1234> never seen that
[22:59] <ali1234> been testing since a3
[22:59] <gord> we'll need to make sure onboard is always on top of unity too
[22:59] <AlanBell> that was when running it in virtualbox
[23:00] <AlanBell> bug 739812
[23:00] <ali1234> also it is horribly layed out
[23:00] <AlanBell> ali1234: it is *far* from perfect
[23:00] <AlanBell> but it is in the repos and on the disk
[23:01] <AlanBell> and does support different themes and layouts and scanning keyboards
[23:01] <ali1234> scanning keyboards?
[23:02] <AlanBell> for use with a switch, it highlights a row at a time and you click when the row you want is there, then it scans columns and you click the letter you want
[23:02] <ali1234> the theming is uneccessary anyway
[23:02] <AlanBell> Stephen Hawkin stuff
[23:02] <AlanBell> the theming is unneccessary, the layouts are important though
[23:03] <AlanBell> scanning I am not sure needs to be on the disk
[23:03] <AlanBell> but it does need to do international layouts
[23:05] <hamitron> does anyone know the keyboard controls for codemasters Jonah Lomu Rugby for DOS? ;)
[23:06] <ging> if the answer is yes for anyone you need to get out more
[23:06] <hamitron> :/
[23:06] <hamitron> nothing wrong with the odd gaming session
[23:06] <hamitron> :)
[23:12] <ali1234> could OSK be implemented as a unity lense?
[23:12] <gord> no
[23:12] <ali1234> maybe not technically a lense, but a button on the launcher that you press it and the kb slides out
[23:15] <gord> you could, but you might as well just write an application that does that, then have a launcher to launch it
[23:18] <ali1234> it needs to be able to be hidden easily too
[23:18] <ali1234> you can't hide an app by clicking on the launcher
[23:19] <ali1234> you can put a big minimize button on the app but that wastes space you could use for something useful like bigger keys
[23:19] <ali1234> in the end it's pointless though since unity is unusable on a touch screen anyway
[23:20] <ali1234> so i dunno why i'm even considering it
[23:21] <AlanBell> I think that is a 12.10 suggestion
[23:22] <ali1234> "make unity work on tablets"?
[23:23] <AlanBell> implement a keyboard as part of unity
[23:23] <ali1234> the tablet fad will be over by then and it will be something else
[23:24] <AlanBell> I don't quite understand why it is broken on tablets when they got so excited by multi-touch for a few weeks
[23:24] <ali1234> because whoever is designing it has no clear plan or direction
[23:24] <gord> multi-touch comes through synaptics not touch-screens
[23:25] <gord> ie: apple touch pads and such
[23:25] <AlanBell> and the Dell XT2
[23:25] <AlanBell> http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/455
[23:26] <gord> stuff like that yeah, at the moment, unity really isn't designed for devices that only have a touch screen
[23:27] <gord> it would be great to have it work nicely on such things though, but there are only so many hours in the day and right now we are focused on more important stuff like making 11.10 as nice as we can
[23:27] <AlanBell> but only because it auto-hides the launcher and won't let you get it back
[23:27] <ali1234> and the menus
[23:27] <ali1234> don't forget those
[23:27] <AlanBell> them too
[23:27] <ali1234> and the window buttons
[23:27] <AlanBell> same as menus really
[23:28] <ali1234> if you maximize a window on a tablet you are stuffed
[23:28] <AlanBell> oh and scroll bars
[23:28] <AlanBell> but there are gestures for those
[23:28] <ali1234> can't close it, cant minimize it, can't access the launcher cause it's hidden
[23:28] <ali1234> oh yeah scroll bars too
[23:29] <ali1234> does anyone else ever try to resize a window using the right edge and get blocked by the scroll bar?
[23:29] <AlanBell> but apart from the launcher, scroll bars, menus, window buttons it is perfect!
[23:29] <ali1234> if you go a bit too far
[23:29] <AlanBell> and on screen keyboard
[23:29] <gord> like i said, not designed for a touch only device :)
[23:29] <AlanBell> :)
[23:29] <AlanBell> night all o/
[23:30] <ali1234> i'm having great difficulty understanding what it is designed for
[23:30] <ali1234> oneiric no longer works properly on my netbooks because the dash is now too big
[23:30] <gord> yeah but i could come to you with a delicious cake and you would complain that its not a spanner ;)
[23:30] <ball> Mmmmm... cake. :-9
[23:31] <ali1234> i don't really believe that unity was designed at all
[23:31] <ali1234> i think rather it's a collection of ideas that some bunch of people came up with
[23:31] <ali1234> and didn't consider how they would all work together
[23:32] <ali1234> some of the ideas are good
[23:32] <ali1234> some of them are just poorly implemented
[23:32] <ali1234> and some of them are just plain awful
[23:32] <gord> wow, i got to the minus world in super mario bros! i'v been trying to do that for years
[23:34] <ball> A few people have asked me "what's the deal with that Unity thing?" (they're American ;-)  I'm guessing it facilitates a move away from Gnome.  Is that just because Gnome's heading off in a direction that doesn't suit Canonical (or Ubuntu)?
[23:41] <gord> its not a move away from gnome really, we are still based on gnome, we use gnome applications, libraries, daemons. its just different shells for those applications to live in
[23:41] <gord> ubuntu has always done things differently from gnome
[23:42] <ball> gord: In that Ubuntu used a modified Gnome desktop?
[23:42] <gord> ball, yeah, with its own tech, like notify-osd and indicators
[23:43] <ball> I think I know what notify-osd is.  Not sure about indicators (except on a car ;-)
[23:43] <gord> the icons in the top right for your power and network and blutooth, all that stuff
[23:43] <gord> actually everything in the top right is an indicator
[23:44] <ball> Ah, I've seen those.
[23:45] <ball> Didn't know they had a name.
[23:46] <ball> ...or that they weren't part of Gnome
[23:46] <ball> (I've had limited Gnome experience)
[23:47] <ali1234> gnome has virtually identical icons just implemented in a different way
[23:47] <ball> Does Unity handle those in a way that's compatible with Ubuntu?
[23:48] <ali1234> whut?
[23:48] <ball> (with X clients that were written with Ubuntu in mind... with the way that Ubuntu did those things with Gnome)
[23:48] <ball> (indicators)
[23:48] <ali1234> no, it doesn't
[23:48] <ali1234> old style gnome panel applets aren't even supported on gnome3
[23:49] <ali1234> and systray stuff is specifically blacklisted
[23:49] <ali1234> actually there's a whitelist for allowed applications
[23:49] <Azelphur> Anyone happen to know of a SATA/IDE dock with USB3 support?
[23:49] <Azelphur> been trying to find one :(
[23:49] <ali1234> so unity can do it, but the functionality has been disabled
[23:49] <ali1234> Azelphur: use esata
[23:49] <gord> i know a nice case that has four loading bays for sata drives Azelphur :)
[23:49] <ball> USB 3.0 had been handy at work.
[23:50] <Azelphur> gord: :P
[23:50] <ball> Jobs that used to take twelve hours are now down to five hours.
[23:50] <Azelphur> ali1234: I don't even know if the eSATA is wired up on my PC, haha
[23:50] <Azelphur> but eSATA isn't available everywhere
[23:50] <Azelphur> where as USB is
[23:51] <gord> usb 3 isn't ;)
[23:51] <gord> is usb3 downgradable? i'v no idea
[23:51] <Azelphur> it is
[23:52] <Azelphur> so it'll plug into a USB2 port
[23:52] <gord> funky, though running sata drives off usb2 can't be pretty
[23:53] <Azelphur> *shrug* I just want to be able to copy large amounts of data without disassembling things
[23:53] <Azelphur> I don't mind waiting either :P
[23:53] <ball> gord: It's backwards compatible, which is somewhat useful.
[23:54]  * ball shudders at the thought of disks on a USB 1.1 port.
[23:54] <Azelphur> think I'll just have to get one that only does sata and screw ide :p
[23:54] <gord> could you not just set up a nas? or does it need to be super portable or something
[23:54] <Azelphur> ide is ancient anyway \o/
[23:54] <Azelphur> gord: I want a one stop shop for PC repair / general usefulness
[23:54] <Azelphur> so yea, portable
[23:54] <ball> Azelphur: `I wouldn't expect to find USB 3.0 on a PATA adaptor.
[23:55] <gord> ah, i have ubuntu on a usb stick for that
[23:55] <Azelphur> gord: I have that too, but that unfortunately doesn't make hard drives magically connect to computers :P
[23:56] <ball> Oh well, time to go and try to attach my wife's numberplate to her van.
[23:57] <gord> why is amazon recommending "ping pong balls for cats" to me... they can't even hold the bats
[23:57]  * ball coughs up a furball from laughing
[23:58]  * ball fur