[09:00] <soren> Will Ubuntu's ARM stuff work with a Pandaboard? Everyone seems to talk about Beagleboards, and I have no clue how similar they are.
[09:04] <hrw> it does
[09:06] <soren> hrw: Excellent, thanks. They seem much beefier than Beagleboards and only a bit more expensive. Is there any particular reason by Beagleboards are still the center of attention (which is the impression I get)?
[09:10] <hrw> beagleboard is easy to buy
[09:11] <hrw> and if you want to make own hw then omap3 cpu is also easy to buy
[09:11] <hrw> so companies are buying beagleboards to experiment and then develop own hw
[09:12] <soren> Funny you should say that. The reason I ask about Pandaboards is exactly because those actually seem to be available, while Beagleboards seemed to be out-of-stock in most places.
[09:12] <soren> ...but thanks for clarifying. Your other points make lots of sense.
[09:23] <hrw> I worked for company which went that route ;)
[09:26] <soren> Ok :)
[09:42] <infinity> soren: Beagles aren't the center of attention by any means.
[09:43] <infinity> soren: Pandas are out target proof-of-concept platform for most of what we do right now.
[09:43] <infinity> soren: (And the omap4 images are built specifically with Pandaboards in mind)
[09:43] <infinity> s/out target/our target/
[09:45] <soren> infinity: I must either not be paying attention or be paying attention to the wrong folks :)
[09:45] <infinity> soren: To put that in perspective, my desk has Pandas, an i.MX53, an i.MX51, a Toshiba AC100, an LG-P999, but no Beagleboards. :P
[09:46] <soren> Great.
[09:46] <ogra_> panda ftw !
[09:46]  * soren commences twiddling thumbs until his shiny new Pandaboard arrives
[09:47]  * ogra_ sees that soren finally made it to the bright side of HW :)
[09:47] <infinity> soren: We *do* try to make sure the Beagle images continue to function, because there are a TON of them in the community, but our *current* proof-of-concept platforms are the Panda, i.MX53, and the AC100, and the Panda is the only one we fully support on a corporate level as well as community.
[09:47] <infinity> (Well, for some value of the word "support" that I would refuse to commit to in any capacity more official than an IRC channel)
[09:48] <infinity> Being a dev board, the word "support" tend to always have "proof-of-concept" floating around it somewhere. ;)
[09:48] <infinity> s/tend/tends/
[09:48]  * ogra_ prefers "reference" :)
[09:49] <ogra_> (sounds less unfinished)
[09:49] <infinity> ogra_: Well, it's sticky.  It's our ref platform for desktop and "mobile", but it's a POC platform for server, since the Panda is pretty effin' obviously not server hardware. ;)
[09:49] <infinity> It's really not desktop hardare either, to be honest.
[09:50] <infinity> Mobile is all I'm comfy calling it.
[09:50] <soren> ogra_: I did play around with an NSLU2 a couple of years ago, but it wore out my patience pretty quickly. I get the impression things have changed ever so slightly since then :)
[09:50] <ogra_> indeed
[09:50] <infinity> Or "a giant cell phone".
[09:50] <infinity> soren: The Panda's quite nice, modulo a couple of kernel bugs that we've finally got a handle on.
[09:50] <ogra_> nuslu2 makes a good NAS :)
[09:50] <ogra_> -s
[09:50] <infinity> soren: And the fact that all your I/O is over USB, which can get frustrating.
[09:50] <ogra_> err
[09:51] <ogra_> -u indeed
[09:51] <infinity> soren: But they're speedy, other than that.
[09:51] <soren> infinity: Oh, no SD card or anything?
[09:51] <hrw> infinity: anything omap based is mobile
[09:51] <soren> infinity: (or is that connected over a USB bus?)
[09:51] <ogra_> soren, SD is the default boot media
[09:51] <infinity> soren: The SD reader isn't on USB, but how that would make you happy, I don't know. :P
[09:51] <infinity> soren: Given that SD isn't exactly "fast".
[09:51] <ogra_> and in our preinstalled images also the default rootfs media, but of you want to use the board in production you want USB root
[09:52] <soren> infinity: Err... Right you are.
[09:53] <infinity> soren: The ethernet, and any external storage you might attempt, will be over USB2, however.  Which isn't AWEFUL, it's just not ideal.
[09:53] <infinity> soren: Still, they're good little boards, for what they are.  And the price point is nice for a dev kit.
[09:53] <infinity> (As is the price point for an iMX.53, if you're in a collecting mood).
[09:54] <ogra_> they surely can cope with the low end atoms speed wise
[09:54] <infinity> Oh, all the ARM kit on my desk blows my Atom netbook out of the water.
[09:54] <ogra_> sadly not IO wise
[09:54] <infinity> I only still use the Atom because it has a sane SATA controller, and, like, a portably form factor. :P
[09:55] <soren> The ethernet adaptor is hooked up to the USB bus?
[09:55] <infinity> (The i.MX53 has sane SATA, the AC100 has a good form factor, if only I could combine the two...)
[09:55] <infinity> soren: Yes.
[09:55] <ogra_> soren, well ...
[09:55] <soren> Hm. Ok.
[09:55] <ogra_> the ethernet adapter *is* the host afaik
[09:55] <ogra_> its one chip
[09:56] <infinity> Not that it matters.  USB2 is 480Mbps, the ethernet is only 100Mbps. :P
[09:56] <ogra_> indeed
[09:57] <infinity> soren: Wait... I thought you were living in the US these days?
[09:57] <ogra_> infinity, i have the ac100 datasheet, you could write a PCIe driver and use SATA SSDs
[09:57] <infinity> soren: What are you doing awake at this ungodly hour?
[09:58] <soren> infinity: Good grief, no.
[09:58] <infinity> soren: Oh, you're in .dk?
[09:58] <soren> infinity: Yup. Not planning on going anywhere either :)
[09:58]  * infinity wonders where he got the US idea...
[09:58] <soren> infinity: What are *you* doing up at this ungodly hour? Or did you move to a more sensible timezone?
[09:58] <ogra_> heh
[09:59]  * ogra_ was about to ask the same
[09:59] <infinity> ogra_: That would be more tempting if I they had PC105 keyboard variants.
[09:59] <infinity> soren: Long weekend, lots of gin, I dunno.  DON'T JUDGE ME.
[10:00] <infinity> I don't work tomorrow, I'm travelling on Tuesday, and at Plumbers on Wednesday.
[10:00] <infinity> I'm not sure that sane sleep patterns matter between now and then.
[10:00] <soren> You're in UTC-5? Or -6?
[10:00] <infinity> -6
[10:01] <soren> Ooh, lunchtime.
[10:01] <infinity> I don't often eat lunch at 4am.
[10:01] <infinity> But sure.
[10:01] <infinity> (Okay, who am I kidding, there's nothing I don't often do at 4am)
[10:01]  * ogra_ considers breakfast ...
[11:51] <lilstevie> persia: ping me when you are about
[11:52] <lilstevie> ogra_: so the ac100 has an unused mini pci-e?
[12:21] <ogra_> lilstevie, well, depends on the model, all of them have a PCIe slot, but we only have a driver for the USB part of ot atm
[12:22] <ogra_> all non 3G models dont have a header soldered to the socket though
[12:22] <lilstevie> sounds like what we have on the transformer
[12:22] <ogra_> that makes using the slot a bit difficult  on the non 3G ones
[12:22] <lilstevie> the non 3G tf has the port with no header
[12:23] <lilstevie> and well same deal with the usb part only having a driver
[12:23] <lilstevie> trimslice has a driver for its pci-e
[12:23] <lilstevie> wonder if that would help at all
[12:24] <ogra_> i doubt its a 1x1 replacement
[12:24] <ogra_> so even if they have a driver, that would likely only be a base to build on
[12:24] <lilstevie> true
[12:25] <ogra_> i think there is also a driver in the old harmony kernels
[12:25] <lilstevie> one good thing is they are all AP50
[12:25] <lilstevie> er
[12:25] <lilstevie> AP20
[12:43] <sebjan>  /join #linaro
[12:43] <sebjan> oups
[12:47] <lilstevie> ogra_: do you have a good test of egl for the ac100?
[12:48] <ogra_> not atm, i think janimo did some gles testing on ac100
[12:48] <lilstevie> ogra_: hm, what about that quake3 port?
[12:49] <ogra_> ask phh, i think he has something like that
[12:49] <lilstevie> heh ok,
[12:49] <phh> ok i need to find the url.
[12:49] <ogra_> not sure thats usable on a std ubuntu though, i think he adjusted it for the nvidia overlay stuff
[12:49] <lilstevie> I have been running CrOS kernel and u-boot on the tf
[12:49] <phh> ogra_: no
[12:50] <ogra_> ah, k
[12:50] <phh> lilstevie: it's pandora's quake3 port
[12:50] <phh> ogra_: well ok there is one change, i changed the hardcoded :0 to :1
[12:50] <lilstevie> which also is compatible with the L4T stuff
[12:50] <ogra_> heh, well, that should probably work on all tegras
[12:51] <phh> lilstevie: http://kotelett.no/ac100/phh/Android2.1/Games/openarena.tar
[12:51] <lilstevie> phh: ah ok, well I have that
[12:51] <phh> sed -ie s/:1/:0/g on the binary
[12:51] <lilstevie> awesome
[12:51] <lilstevie> kk
[12:52] <lilstevie> phh: did that libflashplayer.so come from an android flash apk?
[12:53] <phh> lilstevie: no, it comes from Atrix' L4T
[12:53] <phh> you can't use android's libflashplayer.so
[12:53] <lilstevie> ah ok
[12:53] <phh> well not as is
[12:53] <lilstevie> yeah I found that out :p
[12:53] <lilstevie> I attempted with flash 10.3 apk
[12:54] <phh> and making it work on "standard" linux would be REALLY painful
[12:54] <lilstevie> heh
[12:57] <lilstevie> I'm also having a strange problem in oneiric, I don't know if it is my fault though
[12:57] <lilstevie> :p
[12:57] <lilstevie> default route is not being set when wifi connects
[12:58] <ogra_> works fine here, its usually the duty of NM
[12:59] <lilstevie> hm
[12:59] <ogra_> might be that your driver does not expose the bits and pieces the right way for NM
[12:59] <lilstevie> it works perfect in natty
[12:59] <lilstevie> it is the brcmfmac staging driver
[12:59] <ogra_> well, might be an NM bug, but i definitely dont see it here
[13:00] <ogra_> so i would guess driver ...
[13:01] <lilstevie> ok
[13:03] <lilstevie> hmm ok
[13:04] <lilstevie> so looking at the network manager logs, i have <warn> Failed to add route Invalid input data or parameter
[13:04] <lilstevie> but that is for setting ipv6 stuff which I don't use cause I don't have
[13:27] <lilstevie> ogra_: are builds still taking 70 minutes when you build locally on your ac100?
[13:28] <ogra_> kernel ?
[13:29] <ogra_> i havent built locally for quite some time, and before i always had a configured tree, so only changed files were rebuilt
[13:29] <lilstevie> heh yeah
[13:29] <lilstevie> building with debuild cleans the tree every time though :/
[13:30] <ogra_> yeah, i dont do that for tests
[13:30] <ogra_> and for binary packages i just use the archive :)
[13:30] <lilstevie> yeah I am building this not as a test though, trying to seed it into an image
[13:31] <lilstevie> but also making sure that it builds
[13:31] <lilstevie> so if I send it to persia that it doesn't get rejected again :p
[13:32] <lilstevie> I'm not lucky enough to have an archive that I can upload it to :p
[13:33] <ogra_> just get more sponsored packages in ... and then apply for upload rights ;)
[13:33] <lilstevie> heh, well I don't have one yet
[13:35] <lilstevie> ogra_: though some massive stuff has happened for us with the transformer
[13:35] <lilstevie> we got a u-boot port
[13:36] <ogra_> we have a u-boot port for the ac100 as well
[13:36] <lilstevie> working well?
[13:36] <ogra_> its just not usable without any input device support
[13:36] <lilstevie> ah yeah, similar space then
[13:36] <ogra_> seems to work if you have soldered a serial port on
[13:36] <lilstevie> trying to figure out how to to get the stupud EC keyboard to work with it
[13:37] <lilstevie> keyboard gives us some input, just it is random noise
[13:38] <lilstevie> but I have interaction through boot.scr :p
[18:24] <plm> the ubuntu for omap will works in this board too? http://igloocommunity.org/
[18:24] <plm> of course is omap.. but my question is about the board.. or just pandaboard with omap4 is supported?
[18:32] <infinity> The Snowball isn't OMAP.
[18:33] <plm> infinity: ahh sorry.. is just cortex-A9
[18:33] <infinity> Of course, Ubuntu's userspace will run fine on Snowballs, we just don't ship a kernel or installer for them currently.
[18:33] <plm> infinity: but.. they say that supported by ubuntu
[18:34] <plm> infinity: but what ubuntu I get to install in snowball?
[18:34] <infinity> See above.  We don't have a Snowball installer.
[18:34] <plm> infinity: because don't have a ubuntu for ARM. just for omap
[18:34] <plm> humm
[18:35] <infinity> All of our packaged software will work fine on them.  Just, like I said, no kernel or installer.
[18:35] <infinity> Linaro's hwpacks should work for Snowball.
[18:35] <plm> infinity: yes.. option is linaro
[18:35] <infinity> And you could, for instance, use linaro-image-create with an ubuntu-core tarball as the rootfs and a snowball hwpack, to create a Snowball image.
[18:36] <plm> humm
[18:37] <infinity> We're working on trying to make this whole "every board is different, so we can't have a unified installer" business a bit less messy going forward.
[18:37] <infinity> But building 32 different images isn't the way to go. :P
[18:38] <plm> infinity: maybe is better use entire linaro.. because has modified kernel and apps to works with board.. like, acell, GPIO, gps and so one
[18:38] <infinity> It will, ultimately, be about leveraging linaro hwpack type stuff with Ubuntu rootfses, I imagine.
[18:38] <infinity> Hrm?  Other than the kernel, "linaro" is Ubuntu.  Well, except that they rebuild binaries to test their toolchain.
[18:39] <infinity> If you want your userspace to be supported sanely, Ubuntu userspace with a linaro kernel is the way to go.
[18:39] <infinity> Which is what you get with a linaro hwpack.
[18:39] <infinity> And an ubuntu tarball.
[18:40] <plm> infinity: so I use just kernel of linaro and the rest is the same ubuntu used in ubuntu for omap?
[18:41] <infinity> Yes... There is no "Ubuntu for OMAP".
[18:41] <infinity> Don't confuse installers with the archive.
[18:41] <plm> ok
[18:41] <plm> so for arm :-)
[18:41] <infinity> Our OMAP images are Ubuntu with an OMAP kernel and an installer that knows how to boot the system.
[18:41] <plm> ubuntu for arm :-)
[18:42] <plm> but the packages are ported/recompiled for arm arch.. is not the same use in cisc right
[18:42] <infinity> The ubuntu/arm packages are just generic armv7, they work on anything.
[18:42] <infinity> Well, anything v7 and up.
[18:43] <plm> infinity: are there in "cookbook" or a tutorial for to do that.. linaro kernel + ubuntu?
[18:43] <infinity> linaro-image-tools takes an argument for a rootfs tarball.  You'd just need to point it at an ubuntu-core tarball, and that would be that.
[18:44] <infinity> I'm sure there's l-i-t documentation somewhere, but other than manpages, I'm not sure where to point you online.
[18:44] <plm> ok
[18:44] <plm> infinity: thanks.. that is a good start point :-)