=== ghostcube_ is now known as ghostcube [09:15] (ping) [09:30] pong === _jmp__ is now known as _jmp_ [14:23] quit === raju1 is now known as genupulas === Guest47819 is now known as tviking [15:54] hi all, is everyone ready for the first day of Ubuntu App Developer Week? [15:54] Yes! [15:54] :) [15:55] yess :) [15:55] Yep!! === dmitry is now known as Guest95437 [15:56] awesome :) [15:59] Let's give a warm welcome to Jonathan Lange (jml), who'll be opening the UADW with a talk about the app developer strategy for Ubuntu [15:59] Hello and welcome to App Developer Week! [15:59] As dpm said, my name's Jonathan Lange. [15:59] I work at Canonical. [15:59] For most of the last five years I've been working on Launchpad, but recently I've started working on the Ubuntu developer programme [15:59] Which has been really fun. [16:00] We believe that to get Ubuntu from 20 million to 200 million users, we need more and better apps on Ubuntu [16:00] And in fact, more than that, that we need a thriving ecosystem of applications on Ubuntu [16:00] skype:johnoxton.co.uk [16:00] skype:elachuni [16:00] Two simple goals: [16:00] 1. More and better apps on Ubuntu [16:00] dpm: hello :) [16:00] 2. Thriving ecosystem === ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Classroom - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || Support in #ubuntu || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/8rtIi || Questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat || Event: App Developer Week - Current Session: Making Ubuntu a Target for App Developers - Instructors: jml [16:00] Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/09/05/%23ubuntu-classroom.html following the conclusion of the session. [16:01] *ahem* [16:01] I guess I started early [16:01] anyway, for those that turned up late, my name is Jonathan Lange and I work at Canonical trying to make it possible to have many more and better apps on Ubuntu [16:02] so we can get a heap more users :) [16:02] To get more and better apps, we need to have more developers -- the kind who are writing apps for Windows, OS X, iOS and Android -- to think of Ubuntu as a platform to develop for. [16:02] There are a lot of bits to that. [16:02] One is actually making some place that app developers can go to in order to learn how to develop for Ubuntu === david is now known as Guest1487 [16:02] A bunch of folk at Canonical are working on that now, and you'll see their results on developer.ubuntu.com in the next few weeks. [16:03] Also, on Thursday, there's a talk about how they are doing the work [16:03] see the schedule in the topic for more details [16:03] (btw, ask questions on #ubuntu-classroom-chat and I'll answer at the end of the talk) [16:03] Another part is actually *defining* some sort of platform for developers to target. [16:03] Which is really, really hard. [16:04] Part of the glory of Linux is that there are so many choices at practically every level of the stack. [16:04] Roll your own daemon? Use upstart? Use launchd? Use systemd? [16:04] Want a GUI? Use Qt or GTK+? Is that Qt with QML or standard Qt? PyGTK or PyGI? [16:04] Oh, you want an IDE? What, isn't vim good enough for you? Well, I guess there's umm... [16:04] Eclipse, and Anjuta maybe. [16:04] Lots and lots of choices. [16:04] Also, neither Ubuntu nor Canonical really has any control over them [16:05] We "just" import the best open source software and integrate it really well. [16:05] So that's a really tough problem, and if you've got any great ideas I'd love to hear them. :) [16:05] Hmm. This is getting rambly. [16:05] Time for a list [16:06] To make Ubuntu a proper, first-class developer platform, we need three things: [16:06] a) a place -- developer.ubuntu.com [16:06] b) a definition -- ??? [16:06] c) a channel [16:06] By "channel", I mean a smooth, short, safe path from developers to their users and back again. [16:06] At one end of the path is a developer who has just released a gold version of their app (or game or what-have-you) [16:06] At the other end is a user who has just installed that app and is happily running it for the first time [16:07] As a developer, I want to get from the first end to the second end as quickly as possible [16:07] This is for two reasons [16:07] The first is that a large part of the reason I write software is to have people _enjoy_ it. They can't do that until it's installed and running on their system. [16:07] True fact. [16:07] The second is that they probably won't give me any money until then, and I need money to fund my software writing habit. [16:07] As a user, I want the same things, sort of. [16:08] I want to get the latest apps and the latest updates for apps as soon as they are available. I don't want to wait. [16:08] Also, if I have to pay for software, then I want it to be smooth, easy and safe, and I most definitely want it to go to the right person. [16:08] And it's around this channel that a lot of exciting work is taking place [16:09] Trying to make it smoother, shorter & safer both ways. [16:09] Let's be more specific [16:09] At the user end, we have the Software Center. [16:09] [16:09] There are a bunch of people working on this (mvo, tremolux, achuni, noodles, mpt, etc.) [16:09] And it's a huge part of what we need to make Ubuntu a more attractive target for developers. [16:10] If people can't figure out how to find the app they want, install it and run it, then there's no point in writing apps that they want, is there? [16:10] There's also a bunch of associated stuff like ratings and reviews that fit in here. [16:10] On the other end, the developer end, things are (to me) a little more interesting [16:10] First up, Ubuntu's release cycle means that it takes between three to nine months to go from "released application" to "application in released Ubuntu" [16:11] And if the Software Center only has apps that are in the released Ubuntu, that means 3-9 months before I can get *any* feedback from users [16:11] Which is rubbish. [16:11] (Well, thinking only as a developer who wants people using their app. The full picture is somewhat more nuanced.) [16:11] Luckily, there are ways to get applications into the Software Center more quickly than that. [16:11] If it's a paid app, then they can be submitted through . [16:11] That can be if they're libre or proprietary. We don't care, as long as they are charged. [16:12] More info tomorrow at 1900 UTC. [16:12] If it's a free, libre app, then they can be submitted through the Ubuntu Application Review board [16:12] I don't have a URL for that -- they are elusive folk [16:12] (maybe someone else here does?) [16:12] But you can get more info tomorrow at 2000 UTC [16:13] All of this gets us the "short" part of that "smooth, short, safe" path I talked about [16:13] url for ARB -- https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AppReviews [16:14] But before *any* software can be installed from the Ubuntu Software Center, it has to be packaged. [16:14] And frankly, many developers have neither the time nor the inclination to do so. [16:14] ali1234 asked: What about unpaid, proprietary apps? [16:15] ali1234: They are a special case, and generally the authors of those have to speak directly to Canonical. I *think* (but am not 100% sure) that Skype is an example of this. [16:15] Andy80 asked: are you already in touch with Rovio guys? I'd like to have Angry Birds in Ubuntu. I can ask one of them if you want or make them and Canonical be in touch. [16:16] Andy80: thanks. I'm pretty sure that Canonical has already been in touch with them. That'd be a great question to ask John Pugh in his session on Friday. [16:16] ali1234: I think the partner repo is the current mechanism for getting unpaid, proprietary apps into Ubuntu [16:16] ali1234: and if there are plans to change that, no one has told me. [16:17] fwiw, Canonical's interest is in paid stuff, because we keep some of that money, and libre stuff, because we love open source and think it's vital to a sustainable platform. [16:18] (he says, very broadly, as an informed engineer who doesn't make business decisions) [16:18] anyway, where was I [16:18] packaging! [16:18] Lots of developers never ever want to do it. [16:19] The Angry Birds guys, for example, probably never want to read the Debian policy manual [16:19] (which has twelve chapters and seven appendices, just so you know) [16:19] This makes that "smooth, short, safe" path I mentioned earlier a lot more rough and full of potholes [16:19] Most of the work that I am doing currently is in making that smoother. [16:20] I've been taking the great work that james_w has done on pkgme (http://pkgme.net) [16:20] and have been making it automatically package binary tarballs [16:21] since that's what we're getting when most people submit their apps to us [16:21] We've got the proof-of-concept done [16:21] ... and written up a spec: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AutomagicBinaryPackaging [16:21] And achuni's team have started adding hooks into myapps.developer.ubuntu.com [16:22] so the idea will be that people can submit binary tarball over the web, and then they'll be automatically packaged, put into a PPA and queued for testing [16:22] without the developer having to know anything about it [16:23] pkgme is pretty generic, so we're also hoping (slightly longer range) to allow more "backends" than just binary tarball [16:23] Python apps, Ruby apps, HTML 5 apps etc. [16:23] for commercial apps, there's currently a very short turn-around time to getting them reviewed & approved [16:24] for gratis+libre apps, it's a bit longer, but the ARB is working on that. [16:24] (More info tomorrow at 2000 UTC w/ stgraber) [16:24] There's a whole bunch of questions that will need to be answered [16:25] A big one is safety [16:25] * jml decides about answering questions [16:26] OK. But I really want to talk about safety and other controversial subjects :) [16:26] Andy80 asked: to make developers life easier, what do you think about preparing a better documentation for "Ubuntu API" ? I make you a clear example: without the suggestion from Andrea Azzarone I would never know that there was an "EmptyTrash" d-bus method exposed by Nautilus 3 :P luckly he told me about it and I was able to work on a bug in few hours. [16:26] Andy80: heck yes. [16:26] Andy80: we're hoping to start that sort of documentation with developer.ubuntu.com in the next few weeks [16:26] Andy80: there are some things that make it complicated though [16:27] 1. We have to make opinionated choices about what to document [16:27] e.g. the ayatana notification bubble thingy is an obvious thing to document and call part of the "Ubuntu API" [16:28] but when we pick Nautilus, we're implicitly saying that KDE isn't part of that Ubuntu API [16:28] which is maybe fair enough [16:28] the more options we provide, the more documentation we need to write *and* the more confusing that documentation becomes [16:28] 2. There's a *lot* of stuff to document [16:29] So it's going to have to be a Canonical + community effort. It's just too big a challenge. [16:29] 3. It's got to be well coordinated and curated [16:30] The last thing we want is a wiki full of docs that are of dubious quality & currency, and aren't findable. We want something that's better than MSDN, the Java docs, Android docs etc. [16:30] 4. It's hard to guarantee such an API long term [16:31] since we don't write the libraries, often. === Kroosec is now known as Mipixal [16:31] As an example, my friend & colleague ev has been porting a bunch of stuff from PyGTK to PyGI recently [16:31] not because he wants to, or because it's fun, or even because it will provide a better user experience [16:32] it's because PyGTK isn't supported any more for GTK3+ and PyGI is. [16:32] That's a change in API that's beyond our control [16:32] Ok, and last one... [16:33] 5. To document something you have to figure it out [16:33] and that can often take some time. e.g. rickspencer3's recent posts to planet about how to copy and paste in GTK+ apps, or drag and drop. [16:34] Andy80: so yes, we'd love to do it, and in a few weeks when the new d.u.c is up, that will be the very beginning. [16:34] and we'll need your help. [16:34] OK. [16:34] So we talked about how we're smoothing the path from user to developer by automatically packaging [16:35] And how we're shortening it by enabling app authors to get their app onto stable versions of Ubuntu [16:35] through either the ARB or myapps.developer.ubuntu.com [16:35] I want to say a very little about how we're going to make it safe(r) [16:35] Hmm. [16:35] How do I put this [16:36] If there's one thing we can learn from Windows, it's that it is a bad idea to let people download random crap from the Internet and then run it. === AMedOs_ is now known as AMedOs [16:36] And if we allow app authors to just write stuff and get it into the software center, then we have that problem [16:37] "Review" and "testing" can't be the answer [16:37] Some random website I looked at, which is therefore totally trustworthy, said that the iPhone app store gets over 1000 new apps submitted per day [16:38] I want Ubuntu to be that popular for app authors [16:38] But I also want Ubuntu to be the stable, trusty, well-integrated system that I know and love today. [16:39] there's always going to be a lot of tension here [16:39] but there's some technical stuff we can do to reduce that tension [16:39] which is application isolation [16:40] What we'd like to do (and this is all very vague atm) is have some way of automatically (maybe?) wrapping applications up in some sort of container so we can trust them to not do damage to the system [16:40] Either accidentally or intentionally [16:40] (actually, "accidentally" is probably the best thing to aim for. It's almost impossible to stop someone messing with your computer deliberately if you are running their code and they want it badly enough) [16:41] Arkose (https://launchpad.net/arkose) by stgraber has made some great strides here [16:41] I'm looking forward to playing with it (shamefully, I haven't yet), and maybe integrating it into pkgme or something similar [16:41] Which would go some way to making that path safer. [16:42] Andy80 asked: don't you think that "isolating" apps could make applications only compatible with Ubuntu? For example if someone makes an application that works on 99% distro BUT it requires more coding to be compatible with Ubuntu, the developer would say: ok.. I don't release it for Ubuntu. [16:42] Andy80: hmm. possibly. [16:43] Andy80: I think there are a couple of things that would help there. [16:43] first is that no one seems to have a problem with open source apps running uncontained [16:43] because there's a chance to figure out what they are doing [16:43] and so, I doubt anyone would push too hard for a mandatory containment policy for open source apps [16:44] second, I think we can make it very little work [16:44] just specifying what the app needs. [16:45] third, to some extent, if you want to write a desktop app for linux *and* you want users, you probably want to make it work for Ubuntu [16:45] but we can't rely on that. [16:46] fourth, I hope that the benefits would be really obvious and that the idea wouldn't be too unfamiliar. [16:46] I don't have an iPhone, but my Android phone has already made this concept pretty familiar to me. [16:46] Mipixal asked: Isn't AppArmor an answer to wrapping applications ? [16:46] Mipixal: yes. Or rather, it's part of the answer. [16:47] Mipixal: the security folks I've spoken seem to be leaning towards some combination of AppArmor and Arkose [16:47] spoken *to*, rather [16:47] hmm. [16:48] I think that's pretty much it. [16:48] The idea is that with all of these pieces in place -- software center, developer portal, a defined platform, automagic packaging, safe mechanisms for distributing new apps & paying developers -- then Ubuntu becomes something that developers can seriously start to target [16:48] Any more questions? [16:49] mohammedalieng asked: what about making an Ubuntu IDE, that's the default IDE for creating Ubuntu apps ? [16:49] There isn't currently a default IDE. [16:50] It would be a great thing to have something that is to Ubuntu what Xcode is to OS X [16:50] However, I'm not going to write one :) [16:50] And I don't know of anyone with serious plans along these lines. [16:50] There are 10 minutes remaining in the current session. [16:50] I would suggest that the best place to start is by making one of the existing IDEs better. [16:51] Right, eclipse would be a great place to start. [16:51] samtay asked: What about adding a donate button on open source projects in Ubuntu Software Center? [16:51] +1 We want that so badly. [16:51] But I don't know where it sits on the roadmap [16:51] ali1234 asked: What is the revenue split for paid apps? [16:52] Canonical passes on 80% to the application author. [16:53] I guess one thing I'd add, reminded by bUbu87's comment [16:53] is that if we want way more apps [16:53] we need way more developers [16:53] and they will probably be people who are new to Ubuntu and the UNIX way of doing things [16:54] people who look at me funny when I say I use emacs [16:54] and make jokes about whether I bang rocks together to make fire also [16:55] so part of who we're trying to appeal to now are the developers who are not yet using or even thinking of Ubuntu [16:55] Anyway, that's it from me. [16:55] Oh. Crap. [16:55] One more thing [16:55] There are 5 minutes remaining in the current session. [16:55] If you want, you can sell your libre application on the software center [16:55] rickspencer3 is doing this with photobomb [16:56] the code is fully available, there's a public ppa [16:56] and that's one hack you can do if you want donations [16:56] OK. That's really it. [16:56] Ciao [16:56] [] === ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Classroom - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || Support in #ubuntu || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/8rtIi || Questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat || Event: App Developer Week - Current Session: Introducing Bazaar Explorer: Version Control for your Apps - Instructors: Riddell [17:00] Thanks jml for a great session! [17:00] Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/09/05/%23ubuntu-classroom.html following the conclusion of the session. [17:01] Next up is Jonathan Riddell, the Kubuntu rockstar who's on his way of becoming a bzr rockstar this cycle too [17:01] good day everyone [17:02] I'm going to give an introduction to Bazaar Explorer [17:02] and convince you it's a developer tool everyone should use [17:02] you can follow along by following the images at http://ec2-184-72-177-203.compute-1.amazonaws.com/owncloud/ [17:02] access with guest/guest [17:03] Bazaar is the world's finest revision control system [17:03] if you're coding on files, or even have any non coding files you should use it to keep track of them [17:03] it's fully distributed so you can use it to collaborate with others very easily [17:04] you don't need a fancy server to use it, it works locally fine [17:04] but it's also easy to put on a server, http or ssh is all you need [17:04] if you don't want it distributed you don't have to [17:04] and it's designed to be easy to use for people familiar with CVS or Subversion [17:05] it gives the full power of tools like git but it's understandable to people other than Linus [17:05] it's used everywhere in ubuntu [17:05] to store all our packaging and code [17:05] and it's used in large projects like mysql [17:06] most people will be familiar with Bazaar through bzr, the command line interface [17:06] command line interfaces are great for those of use who are comfortable with command lines [17:07] but as Ubuntu spreads out amongst non-geeks we need it to be available to everyone [17:07] and besides sometimes GUIs are just better even for hardcore geeks [17:07] so Bazaar Explorer is the GUI for Bazaar [17:07] well I should say it's /a/ GUI for Bazaar [17:07] but it is by far the most complete [17:08] bulldog98 asked: what toolkit is it written in? [17:08] it's written in Qt with Python [17:08] an excellent choice for writing any GUI application [17:09] Qt means its cross platform so it runs anywhere [17:09] Python means its easy to fix and improve [17:09] you can install it from any package manager [17:09] sudo apt-get install bzr-explorer will do it [17:10] and run it from the application menu where it's listed as Bazaar Explorer [17:10] or from a command line as: bzr explorer [17:11] when you start it, it'll look like the image 01 on that owncloud server or http://www.flickr.com/photos/jriddell/6116796188/in/photostream [17:11] actually if you've never used Bazaar before it'll probably prompt you for your name and e-mail first [17:13] bulldog98 asked: what toolkit is it written in? [17:13] bulldog98 asked: why does the oneiric package depends on tango? Can’t oxygen be used? [17:13] hmm, this bot is fiddly [17:13] it uses Tango icons, there's not currently an option to use Oxygen icons I'm afraid [17:13] fixes welcome :) [17:14] let's use bzr explorer to get some code [17:14] http://www.flickr.com/photos/jriddell/6116252311/in/photostream shows us going to the "Get project sources from elsewhere" tab [17:15] I want to branch a project to make a change to it [17:15] so I click on the Branch button and enter into the address box lp:ubuntu-cdimage [17:15] http://www.flickr.com/photos/jriddell/6116802008/in/photostream [17:15] you can host Bazaar branches anywhere but one of the most common places to do so is in Launchpad [17:16] which hosts any free software project for free, how very generous [17:16] Launchpad branches have a nice shortcut to their location which is lp: [17:16] and in this case I'm wanting the trunk from the ubuntu-cdimage project [17:16] so I tell it to branch that code [17:17] http://www.flickr.com/photos/jriddell/6116257777/in/photostream [17:17] ah but wait, what's this, which I like to initialise a shared repository? [17:17] bzr is so good at making branches that it's common to make a new branch for any notable change [17:18] then you can edit the branch with out worrying about mistakes [17:18] and merge it into the main branch when you're happy [17:18] this leaves a load of branch directories around on your hard disk [17:18] which might be wasteful of disk space [17:19] so a shared repository will share all the history which is the same in your branches [17:19] so yes we do want to make the shared repository [17:19] a new dialogue box pops up http://www.flickr.com/photos/jriddell/6116801334/in/photostream/ [17:20] we let it do its initialisation then we get the branch we want http://www.flickr.com/photos/jriddell/6116800620/in/photostream/ [17:20] an voila, bzr explorer is ready to work on this branch http://www.flickr.com/photos/jriddell/6116800344/in/photostream/ [17:20] I can’t see a pic in the owncloud server [17:21] well just use the flickr images, they're the same [17:21] if you look in a file manager it will have made a ubuntu-cdimage/ directory and within it a trunk/ directory [17:22] the ubuntu-cdimage/ directory is our shared repository and the trunk/ directory is our branch we just made [17:23] in the bottom right of Bazaar Explorer is the working tree, you can open files from there to edit them if you wish [17:23] or open the whole directory in a file manager or an IDE [17:23] today I'm going to add a new Ubuntu flavour [17:23] Bazaarbuntu! [17:23] it's going to be the distro to take over the world [17:24] so I'll edit the file in ubuntu-cdimage to start making those CD images http://www.flickr.com/photos/jriddell/6116800100/in/photostream/ [17:25] having made the edit the Bazaar Explorer page will refresh to note that I have changes [17:25] (if it doesn't automatically refresh then you have a version without my automatic refresh patch, you can click the "refresh" button) [17:25] if I want to see my changes I can click on Diff http://www.flickr.com/photos/jriddell/6116255747/in/photostream/ [17:26] and if I want to save the change to the Bazaar repository I can click on commit http://www.flickr.com/photos/jriddell/6116804398/in/photostream [17:27] this will save the change to my local branch [17:27] but now I want to publish the change to the wider world so I need to push it to another location which is publically available [17:27] http://www.flickr.com/photos/jriddell/6116803820/in/photostream/ [17:27] there I'm pushing it to a branch on Launchpad [17:29] so now anyone can see my branch on the web https://code.launchpad.net/~jr/+junk/bazaarbuntu [17:29] and anyone can download it or review the change [17:29] Bazaar Explorer can access most of the functions of bzr, such as looking at the log of commits [17:29] http://www.flickr.com/photos/jriddell/6116803174/in/photostream/ [17:30] http://www.flickr.com/photos/jriddell/6116258943/in/photostream/ [17:30] infact it can access all the functions of bzr because if there's a bzr command without a gui you can use the "All" option to run it [17:31] if I want to make more complex changes I probably want to make a new local branch http://www.flickr.com/photos/jriddell/6116802386/in/photostream/ [17:32] and work on that, then merge it in to trunk when I'm happy [17:33] of course you don't always care about having branches [17:34] you might prefer to work more like subversion or cvs where you just checkout directly from the server [17:34] and commit directly back [17:34] Bazaar and Bazaar Explorer support this [17:34] back on the welcome page i click Checkout http://www.flickr.com/photos/jriddell/6116798884 [17:35] here I checkout the ubuntu seeds [17:35] I make my change (adding bzr-explorer) [17:35] and commit directly back http://www.flickr.com/photos/jriddell/6116798624/ [17:35] that's working with existing projects [17:36] but we are App Developers and we want to make our own projects! [17:36] the Welcome page has a "Start a new Project" tab [17:36] http://www.flickr.com/photos/jriddell/6116798364 [17:37] I initialise a new project [17:37] there's a few options for what sort of branch you want, Feature Branches is the best sort for most cases [17:37] that'll make a shared repository and a trunk branch inside it [17:38] http://www.flickr.com/photos/jriddell/6116798064 [17:38] this takes us to a new page which lists the available branches [17:38] from here we can open a branch or make a new one [17:39] as a new project working on trunk is expected so we can add our files http://www.flickr.com/photos/jriddell/6116254211 [17:39] and commit them http://www.flickr.com/photos/jriddell/6116253927 [17:39] http://www.flickr.com/photos/jriddell/6116797120 [17:39] and if I wanted I could push it to Launchpad or anywhere else [17:40] bazaar explorer is awesome! [17:40] why thank you trinikrono, free hugs to you [17:40] now I said that Bazaar is used throughtout Ubuntu [17:41] we now have (almost) every ubuntu package kept in a Bazaar branch [17:41] so you can use Bazaar Explorer to branch any Ubuntu package if you feel the need to fix it or otherwise look at the source code [17:41] http://www.flickr.com/photos/jriddell/6116796880 [17:42] here I'm getting the code to Ubuntu's choqok package [17:42] by branching ubuntu:choqok [17:42] which gives me the code to work on http://www.flickr.com/photos/jriddell/6116796608 [17:42] bUbu87 asked: so upstream development just maps to pull requests on the package's launchpad branch? [17:43] bUbu87: you're talking about the Ubuntu package branches? Those are imports of packages in Ubuntu so they're not the upstream development branch [17:43] so if you want to fix a problem which is specific to ubuntu then use those [17:44] if it's a general problem in the program then use the normal upstream code whereeever that is kept [17:45] Bazaar Explorer is a nice GUI which works along with your IDE or file manager/text editor for working with code in Bazaar branches [17:45] there is a half way between the GUI and command line interfaces [17:46] which is to launch QBzr commands directly from the command line [17:46] so if you're into using command lines but want an easier way to, say, browse a branch history you can run [17:46] bzr qlog [17:46] instead of bzr log [17:46] which will give you a GUi to look at the log [17:47] I use this a lot whenever the history is more complex than straight commits [17:48] the same goes for bzr qcommit or bzr qbranch [17:48] it's a nice alternative for when the command line is showing its limitations [17:48] dpm asked: are there Bazaar Explorer packages for platforms other than Ubuntu? (e.g. Win, Mac...) [17:49] if you install Bazaaron Windows the installer comes with explorer [17:49] same for Mac I'm sure [17:49] so it's actually the main UI for non-Linux users [17:50] which is why if you follow the Take the Tour link on http://bazaar.canonical.com/en/ it shows you Bazaar Explorer [17:50] that's all I have prepared, any other questions? [17:50] There are 10 minutes remaining in the current session. [17:51] bulldog98 asked: will there be a port to freedesktop icon usage? [17:51] I see this is an important issue for you :) [17:52] I think when Bazaar Explorer was started Tango was the obvious choice [17:52] since then Oxygen has come along and the freedesktop icon standard is more available [17:52] but I don't think freedesktop icons are built into Qt so there's a little bit of code needed there [17:53] do file a bug if it's something you want done and hopefully we'll get round to iy [17:53] it [17:53] dpm asked: apart from Bazaar Explorer, are there other recommended graphical tools? I.e. I know there's qbzr and bzr-gtk, but I don't know if picking one over the other is a matter of choice or whether there is a recommended one to use [17:53] qbzr is the GUi for individual commands [17:53] e.g. bzr qlog [17:54] when you ask Bazaar Explorer to show you the branch log it will run QBzr's qlog [17:54] you can also tell Bazaar Explorer to run bzr-gtk commands instead of QBzr if you really want [17:54] but QBzr is generally better maintained and is the default [17:55] the other main graphical tool is Loggerhead which is the web UI [17:55] There are 5 minutes remaining in the current session. [17:55] elite Bazaar hackers recently changed that from spitting out HTML directly to spitting out JSON so it's now a lot more flexible as a way of making UIs [17:56] e.g. Launchpad can now show you a recent changes diff for merge proposals [17:56] there's some other UIs such as my own Dolphin Bazaar plugin for KDE's file manager [17:56] and there's even some experimental integration with Qt Creator [17:57] bulldog98 asked: is there a graphical way to see my bazaar config, eg what bazaar plugins are run after a commit (cia-client?) [17:57] The settings menu lets you change your Bazaar config [17:58] but it doesn't do everything from a GUI [17:58] User Configuration has your user setup [17:58] but stuff like cia plugin config can only be done with editing a text file for now (Settings -> Locations) [17:59] Bazaar Explorer is extendable so it should be possible for the bzr-cia plugin to add that [17:59] Mipixal asked: What about Bazaar branches that are mirrored from other sources (not hosted on Launchpad). Does pushing commits make them available only on Launchpad or to original sources too ? [18:00] it depends where you push them [18:00] if you push them back to where you got it from then it'll be available in the same place [18:00] if you push it to Launchpad it'll be available on Launchpad [18:00] there's no fixed tie in between bzr and Launchpad [18:00] it's just that Launchpad has been designed to work very well with Bazaar === ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Classroom - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || Support in #ubuntu || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/8rtIi || Questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat || Event: App Developer Week - Current Session: Your App and Launchpad best practices - Instructors: jderose [18:00] time up! [18:00] Thanks Riddell for a really awesome session - even with pictures! [18:00] Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/09/05/%23ubuntu-classroom.html following the conclusion of the session. [18:01] Next up is Jason DeRose, of Novacut fame, who'll be talking about how to make the best use of Launchpad for your project [18:01] jderose, the floor is yours! [18:01]