=== API is now known as Guest66786
=== Guest66786 is now known as apinheiro
joanieHi kids. :-)15:42
joanieI'm vaguely curious what the status if of this bug:15:43
ubot2`Ubuntu bug 769256 in gtk+3.0 "Gdk enumerations do not contain GType info in GIR" [Undecided,New]15:43
joanieAs I just added as a comment, Orca ain't gonna run in Oneiric 15:43
Pendulumcharlie-tca: is that one of the bugs that you were coming up against in testing?15:46
joaniePendulum: regardless of what charlie-tca has or has not run up against whilst testing.... Whom must we poke to get this critical bug (from April!!) fixed?15:50
* joanie sharpens a stick. :-P :-P15:50
Pendulumjoanie: well my next question to him was if it was one of the bugs he'd seen, if he knew if it was one of the ones being worked on by TheMuso or not :)15:51
joaniePendulum: in terms of whether or not it was one of those bugs....15:51
joanieIt would not have been clearly seen during Accessibility testing if what was being tested did not use introspection15:52
joanieOrca's introspection port was completed as part of 3.1.9015:52
joanieditto for Accerciser's15:52
joanieFor whatever reason, until the 3.1.91 release (last night), the downstream Orca package was 3.1.515:52
joanieI wouldn't be surprised if that were due to the package deps I had to bump in Orca15:53
joanieto ensure Orca using introspection would run15:53
joaniein other words, that's my really verbose way of saying that unless charlie-tca is building upstream ATs (along with all their major dependencies including glib and gobject-introspection and pygobject and gtk+ 3 and ....) then he's likely not yet encountered this bug15:54
charlie-tcaI have not had much time to test orca15:54
joaniecharlie-tca: No worries15:54
charlie-tcaIt has been failing in Unity, from what I have seen15:55
joanieWhat's of interest now is that you no longer *can* test Orca.15:55
charlie-tcaSo, it won't work at all in Unity or in Gnome3?15:55
joanieNot until someone fixes your downstream Gdk introspection packaging issue. 15:55
joanieThat was filed in April15:55
Pendulumjoanie: well, that's helpful since jono asked about a11y in Unity recently so I think we can pretty safely say 'very borked for Orca users'15:55
charlie-tcaIt has been working, though15:55
joaniecharlie-tca: scroll up a tad15:56
joanieor lemme try again15:56
joanieThe bug in question impacts ATs which use gobject introspection15:56
joaniedue to some upstream changes we upstream ATs suddenly (very) had to start using it (like NOW)15:56
charlie-tcaI am not a developer, can you say that in terms I, as a user, can understand?15:57
joaniecharlie-tca: sorry15:57
joanieGNOME upstream made a change two or three weeks ago15:57
joanieas a result Orca and Accerciser had to make a change a couple of weeks ago15:57
charlie-tcaThat would explain it breaking bad recently, then15:57
joanieto use a different set of libraries15:57
charlie-tcaI got it now.15:57
charlie-tcaPendulum: yes, that means orca is very broken in Oneiric15:58
joanieBut the kicker is that Eitan (Caribou developer) found and reported this NOT-AT bug, which breaks ATs, back in April15:58
joanieand it has remained ignored15:58
charlie-tcaand just fixing the python/py-ati bugs won't fix it15:58
joanieand to be clear: Orca works just fine in Fedora15:59
joaniethis is some debian thing15:59
charlie-tcaUm, that is filed against gtk3, which really doesn't get looked at as breaking a11y.15:59
joaniePendulum: and jono: To get back to the Unity-specific a11y, last time I checked that was progressing reasonably well15:59
jonojoanie, cool :-)15:59
joaniebut code freeze meant that certain changes might not make it in on time (in Unity or Nux or something)16:00
Pendulumjoanie: yeah, I knew it was progressing, we're just in process of compiling an overall report16:00
charlie-tcaIt was working somewhat until a couple of weeks ago, actually16:00
joanieBut the guy doing the Unity a11y work happens to be our upstream a11y team lead16:00
joanieand he and I have been working on ensuring that Orca and Unity play happily together16:00
joaniewe've even made a few upstream changes in Orca to ensure that it works well with Unity16:01
Pendulumexcept now we have this bug and I honestly have no idea who to poke about it16:01
joaniebut jono and others: If this NON-Orca, NON-Unity bug doesn't get fixed, it will all be for naught.16:01
charlie-tcaWe poke TheMuso about it. He has been working the pyatspi stuff recently16:01
joaniecharlie-tca: it is not a pyatspi bug16:02
Pendulumjono: bug in question is https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gtk+3.0/+bug/76925616:02
ubot2`Ubuntu bug 769256 in gtk+3.0 "Gdk enumerations do not contain GType info in GIR" [Undecided,New]16:02
Pendulumjono: any idea who should be poked?16:02
* joanie sharpens another stick and smiles sweetly16:02
jonoPendulum, so this causes pyatspi not to load?16:03
joaniejono no16:03
joanieit causes Gdk from introspection to not load after pyatspi was imported16:03
joanieand ATs need to import pyatspi and Gdk16:04
jonowhat is the effect of this on Unity?16:04
joanieUnity will not be accessible by Orca16:04
joaniebecause Orca will not run16:04
charlie-tcaapparently, orca / screen reader will not work at all16:04
jonoyou should post to ubuntu-desktop about this16:04
jonoand ensure Luke is aware of it16:05
Pendulumyeah, we've poked Luke :)16:05
Pendulumjust wasn't sure who else16:05
joaniejono: Oh TheMuso is being poked by me in multiple channels so I suspect he'll be aware of it when he looks at his screen. :-)16:05
jonoPendulum, as I say, post to ubuntu-desktop16:05
joanieis there a particular channel I should be poking in since this is not an a11y bug, but rather one that impacts a11y?16:05
jonojoanie, ^16:06
charlie-tcajoanie: #ubuntu-desktop16:06
* joanie nods16:06
jonoyou can also ask in #ubuntu-desktop too16:06
jonobut post to the list too16:06
joaniethanks guys :-)16:06
charlie-tcaThank you16:06
joaniejono: I'll leave posting to the list to Pendulum (thanks in advance!)16:06
jononp, thanks for all your efforts :-)16:06
joanieit's crazy enough dealing with upstreams. ;-)16:07
joaniethank you for all of yours jono!16:07
Pendulumjoanie: thanks16:07
Pendulumjono: thanks16:07
Pendulumerr... joanie I meant that as 'thanks for poking us here so we knew to poke'16:07
joaniePendulum: Ah. :-) Well, I know where the friends of a11y live. :-)16:08
* joanie sharpens a third stick and wanders off to meet new "friends" :-P16:08
Pendulumjoanie: you still need to come visit :P16:08
joanieI know, I know. But you know this is my "volunteer job"16:08
charlie-tcaI have to go poke them too, since the only thing that can now have printers is Unity, according to changes to the /usr/share/applications/system-config-printer.desktop file16:08
joanieand life upstream is insane16:08
Pendulumjoanie: fair enough :) I actually meant your Southern MA/Northern CT tour you were talking about doing at some point ;)16:09
joaniethis latest introspection requirement (as a requirement) was a complete suprise16:09
joanieAha. True. 16:09
joanieI shall make a point of doing that, hopefully in the months to come16:09
joanieI think I've got some guest lecturing to do in Springfield Mass16:09
Pendulumif they'll let me in, I'll come to your lecture :)16:10
macocharlie-tca: what package provides that file?16:10
charlie-tcawhich one?16:11
macocharlie-tca: the broken desktop file16:11
macoi can make a debdiff and annoy a patch pilot16:11
charlie-tcashould be system-config-printer16:11
charlie-tcaThat bug should affect almost everyone that is not using unity, too16:12
macocharlie-tca: got a bug report?16:12
macokde has its own one, but... does xfce?16:12
charlie-tcabug 84181716:12
ubot2`Launchpad bug 841817 in system-config-printer "system-config-printer missing from menus" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/84181716:12
charlie-tcaWe use that to install the printer16:12
macoso it should be available in gnome, unity, xfce.... lde?16:13
macobah, lxde?16:13
charlie-tcayes, please16:13
charlie-tcaTo only show in Unity is a recent change16:13
macoah NotShowIn, thats a handy one16:13
macoi'll make it NotShowIn kde since kde has its own printer config doodad16:14
charlie-tcaPendulum: I copied the log to try and explain this to pitti, if I need to16:30
Pendulumcharlie-tca: okay, I've got it took and am happy to help16:31
charlie-tcaWe can at least bug him. I will add it to my release team meeting notes, too16:33
macocharlie-tca: bryce sponsored a patch for it19:01
charlie-tcaThank you very much for doing that!19:01
PendulumTheMuso: just to bug you more, the menus being hidden thing that jono blogged about today, will that impact people who use Orca at all or will keyboard shortcuts still work without the menu being 'visible'?20:00
=== kinoucho` is now known as kinouchou
TheMusoPendulum: Menus being hidden?21:53
PendulumTheMuso: the windows buttons are now hidden until you mouseover them21:55
TheMusoPendulum: oh ok21:56
PendulumI guess by your response it shouldn't be an issue with people who use keyboard shortcuts? (since it's something that's in beta 1)21:56
TheMusoNo it shouldn't be, however keyboard shortcuts to the panel in both 2d and 3d are currently non-functional.22:01
TheMusoA bug has been filed.22:01
paul_h1TheMuso: is that why my desktop appeared to lock up when I booted the Oneric beta1 CD yesterday and chose the live session option? I heard "welcome to orca, desktop", but then couldn't make anything happen22:08
TheMusopaul_h1: Partly due to the fact that you went into Unity 3D.22:09
TheMusoAssuming you have the hardware to use that of course.22:09
TheMusoand your hardware works with free drivers.22:09
charlie-tcaTheMuso: did you catch the discussion on bug 76925622:10
ubot2`Launchpad bug 769256 in gtk+3.0 "Gdk enumerations do not contain GType info in GIR" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/76925622:10
charlie-tcasupposed to have broken orca completely in Unity22:10
TheMusocharlie-tca: Yes I did.22:10
TheMusocharlie-tca: Its broken orca period.22:11
TheMusoAs well as accerciser.22:11
charlie-tcaWill press pitti tomorrow about trying to get it fixed22:11
TheMusoI will talk to him about it when he comes on in my afternoon.22:14
paul_h1TheMuso: didn't you tell me that the screen reader profile was going to make the system boot into unity 2D?22:14
charlie-tcaYou probably understand it much better than I do22:14
TheMusopaul_h1: Yes, but that code didn't land by beta 1.22:16
paul_h1TheMuso: oh okay. well one good thing is that my USB braille display is now being detected and brltty is started automatically and orca is using it. oh, didn't the code to have a sound played at the try it/install screen land either?22:18
TheMusopaul_h1: yes it did but its not working. Its on my "to debug" list.22:18
TheMusoto debug22:18
paul_h1TheMuso: not a major issue as you can simply wait until the CD drive spins down22:20
TheMusopaul_h1: Yes, but the sound will still be useful.22:20
AlanBellhandy for booting from USB in particular23:37

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