[05:24] <pitti> Good morning
[05:25] <pitti> cyphermox_: ah, do we still plan to use i-n instead of nm-applet at some point?
[05:48] <didrocks> good morning
[05:56] <pitti> bonjour didrocks
[05:57] <didrocks> guten morgen pitti
[05:57] <didrocks> pitti: reminder about the missing reminder to remind you about the team report email sending
[05:57] <pitti> didrocks: heh, merci
[05:57] <didrocks> de rien ;)
[06:10] <didrocks> pitti: btw, if you can bump the score again for the qt build in the ubuntu-desktop ppa (should be the last build, with all new stuff included): https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/+archive/ppa i386 is enough
[06:11] <pitti> didrocks: done
[06:11] <didrocks> pitti: excellent, thanks! :)
[06:16] <TheMuso> Can anybody in here with latest updates installed try running either orca or accerciser? if you can, do you get this error? "** (orca:4445): CRITICAL **: pyg_enum_add: assertion `typename != NULL' failed"
[06:17] <TheMuso> I get that both with latest orca I uploaded to Ubuntu and accerciser. Appears to be a pygobject issue, however I do have 2.90.3 installed.
[06:21] <TheMuso> The traceback from accerciser is more helpful than orca giving nothing thankfully.
[06:24]  * didrocks reboots and makes some tests, brb
[06:28] <pitti> TheMuso: looks slightly different here
[06:28] <OwaisL> Hi all, is there a way to disable all or some of unity multitouch gestures?
[06:29] <TheMuso> pitti: hrm ok.
[06:29] <pitti> TheMuso: http://paste.ubuntu.com/683163/
[06:29] <pitti> /usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/gi/module.py:123: Warning: cannot register existing type `EventType'
[06:29] <TheMuso> pitti: right thats what I'm getting from accerciser.
[06:29] <pitti> TheMuso: that sounds like it tries to import both static and GI modules at the same time?
[06:29] <TheMuso> Orca does funky things with its stderr so one doesn't get a traceback from that.
[06:30] <TheMuso> pitti: hrm ok will check for that.
[06:30] <pitti> TheMuso: hm, doesn't seem to, though
[06:30] <pitti> TheMuso: I usually edit /usr/share/pyshared/gobject/constants.py to immediately raise an ImportError, to see clearly where the static imports are coming from
[06:31] <TheMuso> pitti: ok
[06:31] <TheMuso> pitti: although I can't really see what would need to be weaked in that file to throw sed import errors.
[06:32] <pitti> TheMuso: the exception just pretty darn looks like something already imported the static gdk module before
[06:33] <didrocks> ok, metacity regression between 2.30.3 and 2.34, ricotz: did you package some intermediate 2.32 version in your ppa? first version uploaded to oneiric (2.34) brings a world of color shift at startup. Some kind of nightclubbing :)
[06:33] <TheMuso> ah right
[06:40] <ricotz> didrocks, hello, no, there are no metacity packages
[06:40] <didrocks> ricotz: ok, I guess you saw this regression as well? (a lot of grey/blue/red color when starting metacity)
[06:42] <ricotz> didrocks, actually i am not seeing it ;), i am not running metacity
[06:42] <didrocks> ricotz: ok, I was asking about it as you made the update :)
[06:42] <ricotz> my current setup isnt really  a plain oneiric
[06:42] <didrocks> ricotz: people report the same in the ppa
[06:43] <ricotz> hmm
[06:43] <ricotz> can you give me the bug link?
[06:44] <didrocks> ricotz: this one has videos, for instance: https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity-2d/+bug/820553
[06:44] <ubot2`> Ubuntu bug 820553 in unity-2d "Flicker upon session start" [High,Confirmed]
[06:45] <ricotz> didrocks, which ppa do you mean?
[06:45] <didrocks> ricotz: people are using the gnome3 ppa in natty (saw that on forums)
[06:46] <ricotz> ok, that has 2.34 of course
[06:46] <TheMuso> pitti: ok, seems that there are no static imports in accerciser, so far as I can find/test for.
[07:23] <chrisccoulson> good morning everyone
[07:23] <pitti> hey chrisccoulson
[07:24] <chrisccoulson> hi pitti, how are you?
[07:24] <pitti> quite fine, thanks!
[07:24]  * pitti tries to keep up with the Seb emulator, uploading the fourth gtk+3.0 in two days
[07:25] <chrisccoulson> heh
[07:25] <chrisccoulson> that's worse than firefox!
[07:25] <chrisccoulson> ;)
[07:26]  * pitti adds a new gvfs, and now goes to update gtkmm, gnome-desktop3, and  gedit
[07:27] <pitti> oh, and before, sponsoring jbicha's branches
[07:29] <didrocks> hey chrisccoulson!
[07:29] <chrisccoulson> hi didrocks
[07:29] <chrisccoulson> i'm hoping today goes smoother than yesterday, like, not having GCC crash on all my builds :)
[07:30] <didrocks> heh ;)
[07:38] <rodrigo__> morning
[07:39] <pitti> hey rodrigo__, how are you?
[07:39]  * pitti wonders how many underscores rodrigo__ wants to pile up
[07:40] <chrisccoulson> is it a pure coincidence that the OSD volume icons shown by gsd transition at exactly the same volume levels as the sound indicator now, or did ronoc change the thresholds in the indicator-sound?
[07:40] <chrisccoulson> they used to be completely out of sync previously
[07:40] <didrocks> hey rodrigo__!
[07:41] <didrocks> ok, the issue in metacity is due to compositing activation and X damages. I'm afraid it's a little bit too ahead of my knowledge…
[07:48] <pitti> chrisccoulson: do you happen to have your gedit 3.1.4 upload in bzr, perhaps forgot to push?
[07:48] <pitti> chrisccoulson: if not, I can grab the diff from LP and commit it
[07:49] <chrisccoulson> pitti - oh, sorry. i've just pushed that now
[07:52] <pitti> chrisccoulson: cheers
[08:06] <pitti> wow, "bzr mu" is a lot more clever than I thought
[08:06] <didrocks> hum, it seems that /usr/share/gconf/defaults isn't taken into account anymore
[08:06] <pitti> without any arguments it uses uscan, downloads the latest orig, merges it, and adds a new changelog
[08:06] <didrocks> oh nice, would be great that it does the same for the "upstream branch in bzr" mode )
[08:07] <didrocks> :)
[08:08] <didrocks> hum, there is clearly something weird in gconf, it seems to ignore /var/lib/gconf/debian.defaults/%gconf-tree.xml
[08:11] <chrisccoulson> i <3 inline reply in tbird conversations :)
[08:11] <rodrigo__> pitti, someone stole rodrigo and rodrigo_, that's why the extra _, so let's hope nobody takes rodrigo__ :)
[08:12] <pitti> rodrigo__: you really should register your nick
[08:12] <didrocks> rodrigo__: you should register your nick :)
[08:12] <pitti> then it'll be your's forever
[08:13] <pitti> rodrigo__: is "rodrigo" registered? if not, you could snatch it
[08:14] <rodrigo__> rodrigo is registered by someone else, rodrigo_ by me
[08:14] <pitti> rodrigo__: ah, so use rodrigo_ ?
[08:14] <pitti> /msg NickServ ghost rodrigo_ YOURPWD
[08:15] <pitti> /nick rodrigo_
[08:15] <rodrigo__> I use that one, but when someone takes it, there's no way to get it back, right?
[08:15] <pitti> /msg NickServ identify rodrigo_ YOURPWD
[08:15] <pitti> rodrigo__: you can ghost it
[08:15] <rodrigo__> pitti, I have xchat do that every time I log in
[08:15] <rodrigo__> not ghost it, trying that
[08:15] <seb128> hey there
[08:15] <rodrigo__> hey seb128
[08:15] <pitti> oh, seb128!
[08:15] <pitti> seb128: aren't you supposed to be on vac?
[08:16] <pitti> seb128: I thought we could break gnome 3.1.90, but seems you are watching us :)
[08:16]  * pitti hugs seb128
[08:16] <seb128> lol
[08:16] <seb128> pitti, hug ;-)
[08:16] <pitti> rodrigo_: yay
[08:16] <seb128> yeah, "supposed to", but I think I will work from today until thursday and take some days next week rather
[08:16] <rodrigo_> pitti, cool, ghosting it works!
[08:17] <seb128> isn't .91 the current hot stuff? ;-)
[08:17] <pitti> yep
[08:17] <pitti> some upstream projects are still on .90, though
[08:17] <rodrigo_> seb128, enjoyed your vacation?
[08:17] <pitti> seb128: anything which needs urgent attention, or does the weather just suck?
[08:21] <seb128> rodrigo_, the first week yes, we are having some familly issues so the holidays I had plan this week didn't work
[08:21] <seb128> will report to next week rather
[08:22] <rodrigo_> seb128, oh, I hope nothing serious
[08:26] <seb128> rodrigo_, nothing we will not deal with, no worry, but thanks ;-)
[08:26] <rodrigo_> seb128, good to hear :)
[08:29] <seb128> so, how went beta1? and the GNOME .90 updates?
[08:29] <seb128> rodrigo_, did you manage to close all the g-c-c bugs yet? ;-)
[08:29] <pitti> seb128: beta-1 was a bit bumpy, we had several rebuilds (one during Wed->Thu night), but went fine in the end
[08:30] <rodrigo_> ugh, xchat crashed
[08:32] <rodrigo_> seb128, .90 is all in, now working on .91
[08:32] <pitti> rodrigo_: well, http://people.canonical.com/~platform/desktop/versions.html still has some 3.1.4 versions
[08:32] <pitti> trying to catch up :)
[08:32] <rodrigo_> btw, who maintains the versions page? we are missing gnome-contacts, gnome-online-accounts and maybe others
[08:32] <rodrigo_> pitti, yeah, right
[08:33] <rodrigo_> I'll upload some more as soon as I fix the gnome-keyring build issue
[08:33] <pitti> I'm working on gnome-keyring now (jbicha encountered an FTBFS, sending patch upstream), and gtkmm3.0 building
[08:33] <seb128> rodrigo_, the vcs is in ~ubuntu-desktop, the url is at the bottom of the page (where nobody ever scroll, after all the green)
[08:33] <pitti> rodrigo_: oh, you are?
[08:34] <pitti> rodrigo_: I really was just about to start, so I guess I'll leave that to you and work on some other 3.1.4 updates?
[08:34] <didrocks> hey seb128 :)
[08:34] <seb128> rodrigo_, I can add gnome-contacts and gnome-online-accounts
[08:34] <seb128> hey didrocks
[08:35]  * pitti grabs -menus and -icon-theme
[08:35] <rodrigo_> pitti, yes, I fixed it on the git checkout, now trying building the package with the patch
[08:35] <pitti> rodrigo_: perhaps mention it on the pad?
[08:35] <rodrigo_> seb128, ah, I guess I have permissions there? so I can do it myself if you want
[08:35] <rodrigo_> pitti, yeah, done
[08:35] <seb128> rodrigo_, if you want feel free
[08:36] <rodrigo_> ok
[08:36] <seb128> rodrigo_, they are on http://people.gnome.org/~vuntz/tmp/versions/versions-unstable
[08:36] <seb128> rodrigo_, so you basically just need to add a line in the table with GNOME_FTP as location
[08:36] <rodrigo_> ok
[08:40] <rodrigo_> any other package we are missing there? I just added couchdb-glib, evo-couchdb, gnome-contacts and g-o-a
[08:40] <pitti> rodrigo_: gtkmm3.0
[08:40] <rodrigo_> pitti, ok, adding it
[08:40] <pitti> thx
[08:41] <rodrigo_>  ('gtkmm2.4',              GNOME_FTP),
[08:41] <rodrigo_>  ('gtkmm3.0',              GNOME_FTP),
[08:42] <rodrigo_> the script knows how to map gtkmm?.? to .../gtkmm/?.? ?
[08:44] <seb128> rodrigo_, no
[08:44] <pitti> meh, seems I get all the huge packages today -- gnome-games, icon-theme, gtk, gtkmm
[08:44] <seb128> rodrigo_, looks for gtk+ in the source
[08:44] <rodrigo_> ok
[08:44]  * pitti sees his upstream bandwidth set fire
[08:44] <seb128> it has hacks for gtk2 and gtk3
[08:45] <seb128> waouh
[08:45] <seb128> jbicha has been quite active on doing updates
[08:46] <pitti> absolutely
[08:46] <seb128> pitti, thanks for doing sponsoring!
[08:46] <pitti> I've been sponsoring him for some time now, I think he's ready for ~ubuntu-desktop
[08:46] <seb128> yeah, I was thinking around this line as well
[08:48] <dpm> pitti, I'd like to re-enable oneiric langpacks. If that's ok, I'll go ahead with it now, so that tomorrow we've got a new set of delta ones
[08:48] <pitti> dpm: saw your ping yesterday, already enabled
[08:48] <pitti> dpm: good morning!
[08:48] <dpm> pitti, ah, excellent, thanks and good morning to you too! :-)
[08:49] <seb128> pitti, do you know what's going on with lightdm and unity-greeter?
[08:49] <pitti> seb128, rodrigo_: at times like this, versions.html is severely lagging; do you see any way of speeding it up?
[08:49] <seb128> we didn't get any update in 2 weeks
[08:49] <pitti> like, querying the versions on LP instead of archive.u.c.?
[08:49] <pitti> seb128: I don't know, I'm afraid
[08:49] <seb128> ok
[08:50] <pitti> it's behaving here now, are there still major problems with it?
[08:50] <rodrigo_> pitti, hmm, it runs every hour, right?
[08:50] <seb128> pitti, that's why I usually dumped the "free to grab" list on the etherpad
[08:50] <seb128> rodrigo_, every half an hour
[08:50] <pitti> right, but archive.u.c. only updates every hour
[08:50] <seb128> or maybe we switched back to every hour
[08:50] <pitti> i. e. it has a lag between one and two hours
[08:50] <rodrigo_> http://pastebin.com/gGc6AZ7M
[08:51] <rodrigo_> pitti, right
[08:51] <seb128> pitti, lightdm> not especially, but trunk have quite some improvement, including ui tweaks for the unity greeter to match design
[08:51] <seb128> pitti, doing query from launchpad rather than the archive seems like it would be a win indeed
[08:51] <pitti> that's why I wonder whether we could use launchpadlib to query the most recent source instead
[08:51] <rodrigo_> yes, maybe it could be changes to query on the fly
[08:51] <pitti> but anyway, that would mean some nontrivial engineering, I suppose
[08:52] <rodrigo_> yeah, I guess so
[08:52] <seb128> pitti, not really
[08:52] <pitti> but an lplib call to get the most current source is rather easy
[08:53] <seb128> pitti, l1250
[08:53] <seb128> "# Get the Ubuntu versions from the sources list
[08:53] <seb128> for source in package_names:
[08:53] <seb128>     p = packages[source]"
[08:53] <seb128> (p.ubuntu_version, p.section, p.maintainer) = ...
[08:53] <rodrigo_> so, does this look ok -> http://pastebin.com/AdEv4FP6 ?
[08:53] <seb128> you just have to replace the python-apt call there by a lplib equivalent
[08:54] <seb128> pitti, that loop iterate over the source and get the versions from the apt database
[08:54] <seb128> I just don't know how laggy it would be to make some hundred lplib calls (i.e one for each source)
[08:55] <seb128> rodrigo_, seems fine to me
[08:55] <pitti> worth a try locally
[08:55] <pitti> seb128: if you want me, I can have a look after I'm done with my current batch of updates
[08:55] <seb128> pitti, if you want please feel free
[08:55] <pitti> seb128: where's the code again? (in bzr)
[08:55] <rodrigo_> seb128, ok, I'll push that then
[08:56] <seb128> pitti, lp:~ubuntu-desktop/+junk/versions
[08:56] <seb128> pitti, versions.py ~l1245 is where you want to look
[08:58] <rodrigo_> ugh
[08:58] <rodrigo_> $ bzr push --remember lp:~ubuntu-desktop/+junk/versions
[08:58] <rodrigo_> Doing on-the-fly conversion from RepositoryFormat2a() to RemoteRepositoryFormat(_network_name='Bazaar pack repository format 1 (needs bzr 0.92)\n').
[08:58] <rodrigo_> This may take some time. Upgrade the repositories to the same format for better performance.
[08:58] <rodrigo_> bzr: ERROR: RemoteRepository(bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/%2Bjunk/versions/.bzr/)
[08:58] <rodrigo_> is not compatible with
[08:58] <rodrigo_> CHKInventoryRepository('file:///opt/extra/src/canonical/.bzr/repository/')
[08:58] <rodrigo_> different rich-root support
[08:59] <pitti> rodrigo_: do you have an old checkout perhaps?
[08:59] <pitti> rodrigo_: try "bzr upgrade"
[08:59] <rodrigo_> pitti, no, I just checked it out for the 1st time
[08:59] <rodrigo_> ok, trying that
[08:59] <rodrigo_> no, still fails
[09:01] <seb128> pitti, versions says that apport is outdated :p
[09:01] <pitti> seb128: I uploaded that some two hours ago :)
[09:01] <seb128> ok, we need to fix the get_version ;-)
[09:01] <pitti> if you upload at e. g. 8:01, versions.html will only pick it up at 10:00
[09:01] <seb128> rodrigo_, https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/+junk/versions/+upgrade
[09:01] <seb128> rodrigo_, I'm clicking on it
[09:02] <rodrigo_> seb128, ok, go! :)
[09:02] <seb128> rodrigo_, try again once it's done upgrading
[09:02] <pitti> ah, that ^ means we should refrain from pushing for a bit
[09:02] <rodrigo_> yes, better to wait
[09:02] <pitti> ok, I did the stack of merges/updates that I claimed on the pad
[09:02] <pitti> looking into versions now
[09:03] <pitti> seb128: we need index/oneiric/ only for the python-apt stuff, right?
[09:04] <seb128> pitti, yes
[09:04] <pitti> seb128: OOI, can we ignore/remove setup-launchpadlib-not-root? these days, the DC has current installations of python-launchpadlib and friends
[09:04] <seb128> pitti, we have one for debian as well, we could probably get those infos from launchpad as well though it's a bit trickier since we consider experimental
[09:04] <pitti> ah, right
[09:04] <pitti> we need the indexes for Debian
[09:04] <seb128> pitti, we can ignore,drop it yes
[09:04] <seb128> pitti, well index/oneiric we don't need, we need index/debian
[09:05] <seb128> pitti, though, https://launchpad.net/debian/+source/gedit
[09:05] <seb128> i.e we can probably get the debian versions from lplib as well
[09:05] <seb128> not sure about experimental though
[09:06] <seb128> https://launchpad.net/debian/+source/pygobject
[09:06] <seb128> ok, it does take experimental
[09:06] <seb128> pitti, ^
[09:06] <seb128> so we can probably use lplib for debian the same way
[09:06] <pitti> seb128: do you have a trick to debug this, i. e. only run it for some three packages instead of all of them?
[09:07] <pitti> https://launchpad.net/debian/experimental/+source/pygobject
[09:07] <pitti> right
[09:07] <pitti> nice
[09:07] <seb128> pitti, yes, rename package_info = [ to package_info2 = [
[09:07] <pitti> should be faster
[09:07] <seb128> then do a package_info with only a few sources
[09:07] <pitti> seb128: cheers
[09:07] <seb128> i.e overwrite the package_info table with what you need
[09:08] <rodrigo_> seb128, let me know when it's done upgrading, so that I can try pushing my changes
[09:08] <seb128> rodrigo_, watch https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/+junk/versions when the yellow banners goes away it's good to try ;-)
[09:08] <pitti> uh, this is rather old lplib code
[09:09] <rodrigo_> seb128, ok
[09:09]  * pitti will replace that with login_anonymously()
[09:09] <seb128> pitti, yeah, that script started as a hack and we never really spent time to clean,modernize code
[09:10] <seb128> did somebody start on vino,vinagre?
[09:10] <seb128> if not I will do those updates
[09:10] <pitti> I didn't
[09:11] <pitti> I kept the pad up to date
[09:11] <pitti> well, it doesn't have the stuff any more that I already uploaded
[09:12] <rodrigo_> seb128, neither did I
[09:12] <seb128> ok, good
[09:12] <pitti> seems the lp upgrade is done?
[09:13] <seb128> rodrigo_, pitti: let's keep things on the etherpad until they show on version to avoid confusion
[09:13] <pitti> ok, next time
[09:13] <pitti> or, how about we fix versions :)
[09:13] <seb128> next time you will have versions fixed :p
[09:13] <pitti> $ bzr info
[09:13] <pitti> Standalone tree (format: 2a)
[09:13] <pitti> ^ just checked out again
[09:13] <pitti> rodrigo_: push! push! push!
[09:14]  * rodrigo_ pushes!!!
[09:14] <rodrigo_> pitti, pushed
[09:15] <pitti> rodrigo_: cheers
[09:15] <seb128> rodrigo_, that worked?
[09:16] <rodrigo_> seb128, yes
[09:16] <seb128> great
[09:16] <rodrigo_> so now, when does the online version get the changes from the branch?
[09:17] <seb128> rodrigo_, it bzr pull before running the script at every run
[09:17] <rodrigo_> ah, right
[09:17] <seb128> so at the next run
[09:17] <rodrigo_> so we'll need to wait to see if it works
[09:17] <seb128> yeah
[09:17] <rodrigo_> gsettings-desktop-schemas is done, btw
[09:18] <rodrigo_> and gnome-keyring
[09:18] <rodrigo_> oh, and it shows the vala version incorrectly, we already have 0.13.3
[09:19]  * rodrigo_ looks at the script's code
[09:20] <seb128> rodrigo_, I think we just track the wrong source in the package_info table
[09:20] <seb128> we track "vala" which is the 0.12 version
[09:23] <seb128> rodrigo_, I've dumped some "updates to claim" on the etherpad, you can use that rather than version
[09:23] <seb128> I've checked which ones didn't get uploaded or claimed yet
[09:23] <rodrigo_> yeah, using the pad also
[09:23] <rodrigo_> the only problem is when you remove stuff from the pad and the versions page still shows the old version
[09:23] <rodrigo_> but pitti is fixing that, right?
[09:24] <pitti> working on it, yes
[09:25] <seb128> rodrigo_, that's why the "updates to claim" list on the etherpad is things you can pick now, I did the checking to make sure we don't conflict
[09:25] <rodrigo_> ok
[09:38] <rodrigo_> hmm, last upgrade removed the flash plugin package
[09:38] <rodrigo_> any way to get it back?
[09:39] <didrocks> pitti: i I can still abuse a little about your bump power, dx wants to test a new compiz release, https://launchpad.net/~unity-team/+archive/compiz-testing (all arch, all packages)
[09:40] <pitti> seb128: ah, the upgrade apparently destroyed the checkout on lillypilly, fixing..
[09:40] <seb128> pitti, oh, thanks
[09:42] <pitti> didrocks: done
[09:43] <didrocks> pitti: thanks a lot :)
[09:47] <pitti> http://people.canonical.com/~platform/desktop/versions.html updated now
[09:47] <pitti> that's with my simpler lp login code
[09:47] <pitti> and rodrigo's changes
[09:48] <pitti> it's got gtkmm3.0 now, but not gtkmm2.4?
[09:49] <seb128> the dual versions hacks are buggy I think
[09:49] <rodrigo_> pitti, hmm, I still don't see my changes
[09:49] <seb128> rodrigo_, gnome-online-account is listed for example
[09:49] <rodrigo_> hmm
[09:49] <seb128> gnome-online-accounts 	3.1.1-0ubuntu2 		3.1.90
[09:49] <seb128> in the orange list
[09:49] <rodrigo_> oh, it's couchdb-glib what is not there
[09:50] <rodrigo_> gnome-contacts is neither
[09:50] <seb128> they are
[09:50] <seb128> but you need to click on the "+" next to package
[09:51] <rodrigo_> right, there they are
[09:51] <seb128> you need to add them to package_whitelist =
[09:51] <seb128> l975
[09:51] <seb128> since they are not seeded they don't show as being part of the default install otherwise
[09:51] <pitti> rodrigo_: please pull before changing anything, or even better, use a checkout/bind (I'm working on it as well)
[09:51] <rodrigo_> pitti, ok
[10:02]  * didrocks reboots, brb
[10:13] <pitti> seb128: for Debian, versions.html doesn't make a difference between unstable and experimental, right?
[10:13] <seb128> pitti, no, we just take the most recent one
[10:13] <seb128> which is usually what you want for desktop components
[10:13] <pitti> right
[10:16] <seb128> "The server is temporarily unable to service your request due to maintenance downtime or capacity problems. Please try again later."
[10:16] <seb128> hum, the etherpad is having issues today, I got disconnected several times before
[10:21] <seb128> rodrigo_, bug #828756 is fixed with today's keyring update right?
[10:21] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 828756 in gnome-keyring "getting "connection is untrusted" warnings" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/828756
[10:21] <rodrigo_> seb128, yes
[10:21] <rodrigo_> forgot to close it
[10:21] <seb128> thanks
[10:21] <seb128> closed it
[10:21] <rodrigo_> thanks
[10:22] <seb128> bug #842072 is getting quite some duplicates
[10:22] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 842072 in gnome-control-center "package gnome-control-center-data 1:3.1.5-0ubuntu4 failed to install/upgrade: trying to overwrite '/usr/share/icons/hicolor/16x16/apps/gnome-power-manager.png', which is also in package gnome-power-manager 3.1.3-0ubuntu2" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/842072
[10:22] <seb128> rodrigo_, pitti: ^
[10:22] <rodrigo_> seb128, yes, 3.1.9* of both should fix it
[10:23] <seb128> ok
[10:23] <seb128> rodrigo_, well if g-c-c ships a file g-p-m used to ship you still need a replaces because you don't know which one will be upgraded first in the upgrade run
[10:23] <rodrigo_> right
[10:23] <seb128> i.e users upgrading from natty could get g-c-c unpacked before gpm and hit the conflict
[10:24] <rodrigo_> so, a Replaces: g-p-m (< 3.1.90) ?
[10:24] <seb128> yes
[10:24] <seb128> or rather <<
[10:24] <rodrigo_> yeah, right :)
[10:24] <rodrigo_> fixing it
[10:24] <seb128> thanks
[10:28] <pitti> rodrigo_: what's the last package you uploaded? did you upload anything in the last 23  minutes?
[10:28] <pitti> or seb128 ^
[10:28] <rodrigo_> pitti, g-c-c and file-roller, although f-r was more than 23 mins ago
[10:28] <rodrigo_> pitti, why?
[10:28] <seb128> pitti, nothing since half an hour
[10:29] <pitti> I want an unpublished source for triple-checking my new versions.py
[10:29] <pitti> it's working now :)
[10:29] <pitti> apt-free, pure lplib, checking "pending" versions, too
[10:29] <pitti> ok, g-c-c is published
[10:29] <seb128> pitti, well, publisher run should not be done yet
[10:29] <seb128> is it?
[10:29] <pitti> seb128: that's just for archive.u.c.
[10:29] <seb128> is the publisher taking less than 45min nowadays?§
[10:30] <pitti> seb128: packages get published from LP's POV a minute after the publisher starts
[10:30] <rodrigo_> pitti, my g-c-c upload was 0ubuntu2, it still shows 0ubuntu1
[10:30] <pitti> rodrigo_: yes, I haven't pushed yet
[10:30] <rodrigo_> ah, ok
[10:30] <pitti> currently running with the full package list
[10:30] <rodrigo_> pitti, cool then!
[10:30] <seb128> pitti, I will do some other updates in the next 10 minutes
[10:30] <seb128> pitti, will ping you when I upload
[10:33] <rodrigo_> pitti, I'm just uploading g-c-c 0ubuntu3, if you want to check it
[10:33] <pitti> rodrigo_: ah, nice
[10:35] <pitti> hm, the full versions.py run takes quite a while, poking all the upstream locations..
[10:39] <pitti> yay, done
[10:39] <pitti> http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/tmp/versions.html
[10:39] <pitti> seb128, rodrigo_ ^ output from my local run
[10:39] <pitti> it shows gnome-games as current already
[10:40] <seb128> pitti, the full run slow> yeah, we have been trying to solve that in the past
[10:40] <pitti> and gconf
[10:40] <seb128> \o/
[10:40] <seb128> pitti, robert_ancell wanted to maybe get the upstream versions from launchpad itself as well
[10:40] <rodrigo_> pitti, cool
[10:40] <pitti> we don't have pending merge proposals
[10:40] <pitti> but I didn't touch that code at all
[10:40] <seb128> since launchpad can track upstream tarballs if you give it the infos for that
[10:41] <pitti> hm, why did gtk+2.0 move from dark red to light red?
[10:41] <pitti> did I break that, or is that due to rodrigo's version table changes?
[10:43] <seb128> pitti, it got the debian testing version and not the unstable one
[10:43] <seb128> weird
[10:43] <pitti> oh, seems I'm missing some Debian versions
[10:46] <seb128> pitti, the launchpad web ui has the right version, so seems a bug in the script?
[10:46] <pitti> seb128: yes, working on it
[10:47] <seb128> great
[10:47] <pitti> seb128: it's due to how Debian is represented in LP
[10:47] <pitti> seb128: as we don't publish it, all package versions ever imported are in state "pending"
[10:47] <pitti> so I need to iterate through them and pick the most current one
[10:52] <seb128> right
[10:54] <pitti> ok, fixed
[10:54] <pitti> I think this is working now, want me to commit?
[10:54] <pitti> (I'll fix any further breakage from this, of course)
[10:55] <pitti>  4 files changed, 34 insertions(+), 62 deletions(-)
[10:55] <pitti> it's a simplification, after all \o/
[10:56]  * pitti commits and takes the bullets
[10:58] <seb128> pitti, yeah, please commit
[10:58] <seb128> it has less code that's a good sign ;-)
[10:59]  * pitti works around stupid lucid lplib bug
[11:00] <seb128> pitti, one other option I was thinking about to get improved refresh time is to have 2 codepaths
[11:00] <seb128> one for GNOME which would use http://people.gnome.org/~vuntz/tmp/versions/versions-unstable
[11:01] <seb128> that one should be almost no cost, it's reading a flat text list
[11:01] <pitti> whoops, I broke http://people.canonical.com/~platform/desktop/versions.html, running again
[11:01] <pitti> (forgot to take out debugging package_info, fixed)
[11:01] <seb128> then another slow one which has all the ones that need to list directories
[11:01] <pitti> seb128: right; and run all others in parallel in separate threads?
[11:01] <pitti> (or async)
[11:01] <seb128> pitti, oh, I wasn't planning to do it that complicated
[11:02] <seb128> pitti, rather have 2 pages with different update frequencies
[11:02] <pitti> ah
[11:02] <pitti> like "versions-gnome" and "versions-desktop"?
[11:02] <seb128> yes
[11:02] <seb128> or one page, but cache the values
[11:02] <pitti> that sounds even better
[11:02] <pitti> then we could refresh that just once a day
[11:02] <seb128> then have a --full option that does the checking of everything
[11:03] <seb128> and run the light GNOME update every 15 minutes and the full one every hour
[11:03] <seb128> or so
[11:03] <pitti> sounds good
[11:03] <pitti> better than two pages
[11:03] <seb128> yes
[11:03] <seb128> but I will probably keep that as after hard freeze hacking time
[11:03] <seb128> no hurry for it
[11:03] <pitti> seb128: I'd just cache the results, use the cache if present, and just wipe the cache in a cron job..
[11:04] <seb128> hum, good idea
[11:04] <seb128> pitti, thanks ;-)
[11:04] <seb128> pedro_, hola!
[11:04]  * pitti -> lunch
[11:04] <vuntz> seb128: the gnome versions are only updated once a hour for now
[11:04] <vuntz> I guess I should bump that
[11:05] <pedro_> hello seb128! WB :-)
[11:05] <pitti> vuntz: we'd have a higher frequency for our package uploads
[11:05] <pedro_> salut vuntz!
[11:05] <pitti> bonjour vuntz
[11:05] <pedro_> hi pitti
[11:05] <rodrigo_> hey pedro_, vuntz
[11:05] <vuntz> yo everyone :-)
[11:07] <pedro_> hello rodrigo_!
[11:07] <chrisccoulson> hmmm, seems i broke the Undo/Redo entries in the Edit menu of thunderbird :/
[11:07] <rodrigo_> pedro_, hey, what happened the other day in the Spain-Chile game? there was some fighting, wasn't there?
[11:08] <didrocks> hey pedro_!
[11:08] <vuntz> seb128: looking at your script for versions... first bug report: gmime is now in the gnome.org versions file :-)
[11:08] <pedro_> lut didrocks!
[11:09] <seb128> vuntz, ;-)
[11:09] <seb128> hey chrisccoulson
[11:10] <pedro_> rodrigo_, yeah i blame you guys :-P
[11:10] <seb128> vuntz, pitti: if we have an hour delay to pick new version that's ok, what we want to get updated often is the current ubuntu version so we don't let things marked outdated when they are not (which can lead to duplicate work)
[11:11] <chrisccoulson> hi seb128! i thought you were on vacation this week?
[11:11] <rodrigo_> pedro_, heh, I thought it was the chileans not liking losing :)
[11:11] <vuntz> seb128: ah, ok
[11:12] <seb128> chrisccoulson, yeah, change of plans, I will switch this week for next one
[11:13] <pedro_> rodrigo_, oh well... we didn't pay to the referee that's probably why :P
[11:13] <seb128> chrisccoulson, thanks for reply to my friend's email
[11:13] <rodrigo_> pedro_, :D
[11:13] <pedro_> rodrigo_, its always fun to see some fighting though :-P
[11:13] <chrisccoulson> seb128, sure, no problem
[11:13] <seb128> chrisccoulson, do you have any tb package for natty that include unity integration and theming?
[11:13] <chrisccoulson> hopefully the latest version works better :)
[11:14] <chrisccoulson> seb128, no, there aren't any packages for natty at the moment
[11:14] <seb128> chrisccoulson, I've been looking for that and failed, that's why I told him to use the 0.6 version from the web
[11:14] <chrisccoulson> seb128, there is https://launchpad.net/~mozillateam/+archive/thunderbird-next, but i try to keep those as close as possible to what we intend to ship as a security update
[11:15] <chrisccoulson> so they don't contain all the extra bits in that we have in oneiric
[11:15] <seb128> he installed that one first
[11:15] <rodrigo_> pedro_, I missed it though, just heard some comments about it
[11:15] <seb128> but the messaging code says it's compatible to 6 not  > 6
[11:15] <seb128> so I told him to go back to tb6 from the stable ppa and install the messaging code from the web
[11:16] <seb128> chrisccoulson, btw is the new theming done from patching the source? or is that something he can get on natty?
[11:16] <pitti> real    13m18.386s
[11:16] <chrisccoulson> the latest version i sent him will work fine with the current beta
[11:16] <pitti> seb128: ^
[11:16] <seb128> pitti, thanks
[11:16] <chrisccoulson> seb128, he can install the theme as an extension, but what we ship in oneiric is a huge distro patch
[11:17] <pitti> seb128: it's running at :06 and :36 now, so we reduced the two hours delay to 30 mins
[11:17] <seb128> chrisccoulson, do you have an url where to get the theme?
[11:17] <pitti> http://people.canonical.com/~platform/desktop/versions.html is fixed again now
[11:17] <seb128> pitti, \o/
[11:17] <seb128> thanks
[11:17] <pitti> and created from lplib branch
[11:17] <chrisccoulson> andreasn^^
[11:17] <seb128> lunch time here as well
[11:17] <chrisccoulson> i can't remember the URL now ;)
[11:17] <seb128> chrisccoulson, thanks for the tips, I will check with him how it goes
[11:17]  * pitti lunches for real now
[11:17] <chrisccoulson> thanks
[11:19] <andreasn> chrisccoulson, huh?
[11:20] <chrisccoulson> andreasn, seb128 was asking for the URL to your thunderbird theme extension, but i couldn't remember it
[11:20] <andreasn> http://www.andreasn.se/diverse/temp/unitytheme.jar
[11:20] <chrisccoulson> andreasn, thanks
[11:20] <andreasn> but I should try to get it up on amo
[11:20] <chrisccoulson> seb128^^
[11:21] <chrisccoulson> yeah, that would be great :)
[11:29] <rodrigo_> need to run some errands and then lunch, so bbl
[11:40] <chrisccoulson> phew, thunderbird menu working again :)
[11:57]  * pitti grabs libgtop2 update, in Debian svn
[11:59] <seb128> chrisccoulson, andreasn: thanks
[12:07] <nessita> hello everyone!
[12:07] <nessita> pitti: hey there, you around?
[12:07] <pitti> hey nessita, how are you?
[12:07] <seb128> hey nessita
[12:08] <seb128> nessita, how are you?
[12:08] <nessita> pitti, seb128: I'm great! what about you?
[12:08] <seb128> nessita, I'm fine thanks
[12:08] <pitti> nessita: I'm fine, thanks!
[12:09] <nessita> pitti: I was hoping you could guide me a bit, the control panel is failing to build on both maverick and oneiric with these traces http://paste.ubuntu.com/683471/
[12:09] <nessita> pitti: both are gi-related
[12:09] <pitti> nessita: you can't use GI in these tests, as they already use static gobject/other stuff
[12:09] <pitti> e. g. twisted pulls them in
[12:10] <pitti> nessita: that's why I didn't update the test suite for GI in my merge proposals
[12:10] <pitti> nessita: is that new? I didn't get these in my package updates
[12:10] <pitti> or perhaps I ignored them, because they were not new
[12:11] <nessita> pitti: these are our nightlies build, and this is the same code since you changed it, so not sure how to fix them\
[12:11] <pitti> nessita: the only true fix is to get rid of all static imports, and conver the whole thing to GI
[12:11] <nessita> pitti: build logs can be seen at https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntuone-hackers/+recipe/cp-dailies
[12:11] <pitti> or, drop the usage of GI, i. e. Soup
[12:11] <pitti> but that requires porting or getting rid of that twisted module which pulls in the old static stuff
[12:12] <nessita> pitti: ok, I'll skip those tests for now
[12:12] <nessita> pitti: thanks for the clarification!
[12:18] <seb128> pitti, not sure if the retracers used to dup package installation issues this way but that's quite nice ;-)
[12:18] <pitti> seb128: bdmurray recently added some DuplicateSignature: code to the general ubuntu hook
[12:18] <pitti> seb128: does it work? we had some problems in the ubiquity hook
[12:19] <seb128> pitti, the g-c-c file conflict is being duped by the retracers without issue
[12:19] <seb128> it's great ;-)
[12:19] <pitti> nice
[12:19] <pitti> seb128: btw, I hacked the crontab to send us mail again if one of the retracers fails
[12:19] <pitti> it happened once yesterday, I fixed the cause of it already
[12:19] <seb128> pitti, oh, nice, thanks
[12:20] <seb128> pitti, hum, I didn't get any email, did you activate emailing after the issue?
[12:20] <pitti> seb128: as they now fail seldomly, it's harder to see otherwise, as I stopped checking them daily :)
[12:20] <pitti> seb128: hmm, you should have
[12:20] <pitti> seb128: let me deliberately break the amd64 one, to check
[12:20] <seb128> pitti, I might have deleted it in the one-week-holiday-backlog-cleaning
[12:21] <pitti> seb128: next retracer run is in 3 mins, we should get a mail then
[12:21] <seb128> pitti, danke
[12:21] <pitti> seb128: it looks a bit weird in the crontab as I need to filter out the massive dchroot goo
[12:21] <pitti> that should get fixed once the porter box gets upgraded to 12.04
[12:22] <seb128> pitti, going to take a while before that's the case ;-)
[12:22] <pitti> until then that stuff will work :)
[12:23] <seb128> pitti, nice to see the retracers running some smoothly in any case
[12:23] <seb128> great work!
[12:23] <ogra_> hmm ...
[12:23] <pitti> ogra_: is that a good or a bad "hmm"?
[12:23]  * ogra_ has a weird prob, my mouse starts working after some time (i cant click on anything) ... if i switch workspaces back and forth it starts working for a moment again
[12:23] <seb128> pitti, bug #842235
[12:23] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 842235 in pygobject "Gdk.color_parse returns Gdk.Color instead of a tuple after updating python-gobject to 2.90.3-1svn1" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/842235
[12:23] <ogra_> err
[12:24] <seb128> pitti, can you look at this one?
[12:24] <ogra_> *my mouse *stops* working indeed
[12:24] <pitti> seb128: feature, not a bug; I'll respond
[12:24] <seb128> pitti, danke
[12:24] <seb128> pitti, seems to break checkbox-gtk
[12:24] <seb128> pitti, see https://bugs.launchpad.net/checkbox/+bug/839675
[12:24] <ubot2`> Ubuntu bug 839675 in checkbox "Gdk.color_parse error in oneiric" [Critical,In progress]
[12:24] <ogra_> in .xsession-errors i see a bunch of WM messages
[12:24] <pitti> seb128: yep
[12:24] <pitti> needs to be fixed in checkbox
[12:24] <seb128> pitti, there is a merge request on this bug
[12:25] <seb128> https://code.launchpad.net/~roadmr/ubuntu/oneiric/checkbox/0.12.6/+merge/74138
[12:27] <pitti> seb128: both bugs updated
[12:27] <seb128> pitti, danke
[12:27] <pitti> seb128: you should have mail from the retracer
[12:28] <seb128> pitti, no, didn't work
[12:28] <pitti> seb128: I reverted the damage
[12:28] <pitti> hmm
[12:28] <pitti> MAILTO=martin.pitt@canonical.com,seb128@canonical.com
[12:28] <seb128> pitti, did you get the email?
[12:28] <pitti> I got it, and mailq says "empty"
[12:29] <seb128> pitti, what's the title?
[12:29] <pitti> 06.09.11 14:24 Cron Daemon       Cron <ubuntu-archive@osageorange> dchroot -q -c oneiric 'PYTHONPATH=apport apport/bin/cras
[12:29] <pitti> [...]
[12:29] <seb128> pitti, oh, I got it
[12:29] <pitti> sorry, I can't influence the title
[12:29] <seb128> it went into my "bounce" box
[12:30] <seb128> pitti, ok, so it works, filtering issue on my side
[12:30] <pitti> ok, *phew*
[12:30] <seb128> it's the box I direct all the mailing list bounces, etc warning to
[12:33] <pitti> seb128: you added gtkmm3 to "updates to claim", I just updated that an hour or two ago?
[12:33] <pitti> seb128: I guess it's an error in the pad, but double-checking?
[12:33] <pitti> (it's gtkmm3.0 source)
[12:34] <seb128> pitti, indeed, I overlooked your upload
[12:34] <seb128> pitti, thanks for noticing ;-)
[12:34] <pitti> grabbing gnome-utils
[12:34] <seb128> danke
[12:34] <pitti> I can also grab webkit, now that I already did all the other large packages anyway :)
[12:35] <seb128> pitti, hehe, your isp is going to love you ;-)
[12:35] <pitti> *shrug* German Telekom is pretty good with that, they never complained or failed me
[12:35] <pitti> it's a relatively thin straw (640 kbps), but at least the thing is reliable
[12:38] <jbicha> I have a patch for gnome-shell to build without caribou support since I don't think caribou and onboard will play nicely together
[12:38] <pitti> chrisccoulson: hm, seems current ffox lost the ability to drag&drop tabs to reorder them?
[12:38] <pitti> hey jbicha, how are you? thanks for all your updates!
[12:38] <jbicha> pitti: howdy
[12:39] <cyphermox_> good morning!
[12:39] <pitti> jbicha: would you like to join ~ubuntu-desktop, so that you can commit/upload desktop-ish stuff yourself?
[12:39] <pitti> hey cyphermox_
[12:39] <pitti> jbicha: or do you prefer peer review thhrough merges for now?
[12:41] <pitti> jbicha: gnome-shell> caribou is still being packaged, right? but with FFE, do you think onboard will do for oneiric, or do we need a push to switch to caribou?
[12:41] <jbicha> pitti: I haven't tried caribou recently but a few months ago, it didn't work well with Firefox or full-screen terminals
[12:42] <pitti> ok, so let's keep onboard for this cycle, to avoid any further breakage
[12:42] <jbicha> caribou tried to show the keyboard next to the text input block
[12:42] <jbicha> pitti: yup, that's what I was thinking, that it's a bit late to try something new
[12:43] <czajkowski> chrisccoulson: are you about rodrigo_ suggested I talk to you about a thunderbird issue I am having with U1 error message
[12:43] <czajkowski> There was a problem opening the address book "Ubuntu One" - the message returned was: Cannot open book: Cannot process, book backend is opening
[12:43] <chrisccoulson> pitti - oh, that seems to work here
[12:43] <chrisccoulson> czajkowski, uninstall evolution-couchdb ;)
[12:43] <chrisccoulson> desktopcouch is still completely broken in oneiric
[12:43] <czajkowski> chrisccoulson: you make it sound soo simple :)
[12:44] <chrisccoulson> we could probably handle the error a little better in thunderbird though, but it's still a desktopcouch bug
[12:44] <czajkowski> chrisccoulson: it's driving me nuts, I click on any mail and it appears.
[12:44] <chrisccoulson> pitti - you don't get the little arrow when you try to drag a tab?
[12:44] <chrisccoulson> czajkowski, yeah, it's a bit annoying
[12:44] <pitti> chrisccoulson: when I click a tab, nothing happens at all
[12:44] <czajkowski> so even though I don't use evolution i still have to uninstall the couchdb part of it
[12:45] <czajkowski> chrisccoulson: thanks should I still report  the bug as I cant be the only person with this annoyance ?
[12:45] <chrisccoulson> czajkowski, there's already a bug for it somewhere
[12:45] <czajkowski> ahh ok
[12:45] <czajkowski> chrisccoulson: well thanks :)
[12:45] <chrisccoulson> pitti - the tab doesn't even get selected?
[12:45] <pitti> chrisccoulson: oh, that yes
[12:46] <jbicha> pitti: yes, I look forward to joining ~ubuntu-desktop, I suppose I need to get my wikipage updated
[12:52] <pitti> jbicha: who else except me did sponsoring for you?
[12:53] <chrisccoulson> pitti, i'm not sure what would cause that. detaching the tab doesn't work either?
[12:53] <chrisccoulson> and are you using unity 3d?
[12:54] <pitti> chrisccoulson: detaching doesn't work, and unity-3d, yes
[12:54] <chrisccoulson> pitti - any other extensions installed?
[12:54] <pitti> chrisccoulson: I have flash
[12:55] <pitti> chrisccoulson: adblock plus, youtube downloader, global menu bar, ubufox
[12:55] <pitti> chrisccoulson: but it worked not too long ago, I didn't change these extensions
[12:55] <pitti> chrisccoulson: but I can try disabling youtube downloader and adblock, if you think it might ehlp
[12:56] <chrisccoulson> you can try, but i don't think it will help
[12:56] <chrisccoulson> i'm confused, it seems to work here
[12:56] <chrisccoulson> perhaps i should try in a 3d session
[12:56] <jbicha> pitti: seb128 has done a bunch, rodrigo has sponsored also
[12:56] <pitti> chrisccoulson: hm, restarting firefox helped
[12:56] <czajkowski> chrisccoulson: I could hug you! no more error messages! thanks
[12:57] <chrisccoulson> pitti - have you upgraded today?
[12:57] <pitti> chrisccoulson: yes
[12:57] <chrisccoulson> czajkowski, excellent :)
[12:57] <pitti> but I restarted afterwards (as it asked to)
[12:57] <pitti> chrisccoulson: ok, let's ignore this
[12:57] <chrisccoulson> i was just about to ask that
[12:57] <czajkowski> chrisccoulson: what are the chances you can resolve my odd bug of not being able to launch gwibber from the side bar ?
[12:57] <pitti> chrisccoulson: I did a ton of package updates today, it might have gotten confused over them
[12:58] <chrisccoulson> pitti - we even block bug reports now if you upgrade firefox and forget to restart it :)
[12:58] <pitti> nice
[12:58] <chrisccoulson> the apport hook just tells you to restart it now
[13:01] <pitti> OOI, did anyone try to burn a CD recently?
[13:01] <pitti> I tried yesterday in a hurry  (had to fix my sister's broken laptop), and brasero seems hopelessly broken ATM :/
[13:01] <pitti> it doesn't even detect my drive or the media in it
[13:03] <chrisccoulson> do people still burn CD's? i've got my coffee mug on one right now
[13:03] <chrisccoulson> j/k ;)
[13:04] <chrisccoulson> actually, my desktop really does only boot from optical media
[13:04] <chrisccoulson> so i need to be able to burn those
[13:04] <pitti> chrisccoulson: so it generally works for you?
[13:04] <pitti> before that, it must have been two releases or so ago when I tried that last
[13:04] <chrisccoulson> pitti - i haven't tried burning a CD in quite a while
[13:04] <pitti> I just never ever use CDs any more
[13:05] <chrisccoulson> the last one i burnt was on natty
[13:07] <pitti> seb128: is there a particular reason why we kept vte at 0.28? i. e. should we upgrade to 0.28.2, or 0.29?
[13:07] <jbicha> it can't be that bad, we're not drowning in recent brasero bug reports, are we? ;-)
[13:08] <pitti> jbicha: well, it could be just my machine being unlucky or busted, or everyone else living in the year 2011 now :)
[13:08] <seb128> pitti, 0.28, not that I know about, update to 0.29 if it seems ok, it's likely it didn't get tarballs before in the cycle
[13:08] <pitti> where CD-RW is now being spelt "I-P-O-D"
[13:08] <jbicha> haha
[13:08]  * pitti pats his shiny new android phone
[13:08] <pitti> seb128: ack
[13:09] <pitti> even I discovered the wonders of bluetooth recently :)
[13:09] <ogra_> pitti, what did you get ?
[13:09] <pitti> ogra_: Sony Ericsson Xperia Mini Pro
[13:09] <ogra_> nice !
[13:09] <pitti> ogra_: it's not the newest thing in the world, but it's nice, small, a lot faster than my old G1, and it was only 10 bucks
[13:09] <ogra_> so you need to start playing PSP games now :)
[13:09] <pitti> ogra_: I started playing angry birds!
[13:09] <ogra_> haha
[13:09] <pitti> (that didn't run on the G1)
[13:10] <pitti> I had kept the G1 for some more time, but the antenna broke or something, it didn't let me into the telephony network any more
[13:10] <pitti> and while doing phone calls is kind of an addon these days, I do need these from time to time :)
[13:11] <ogra_> overrated, there is VoIP :)
[13:11] <pitti> at home, yes :)
[13:43] <pitti> nessita: in oneiric, is it possible at all to select another folder than just "Ubuntu One" for syncing? Like ~/Music ?
[13:43] <pitti> nessita: with the nautilus integration being gone, I mean
[13:43] <nessita> pitti: is possible from CLI, and from the QT control panel
[13:45] <seb128> didrocks, do you plan to package the new dee?
[13:46] <dobey> pitti: the nautilus integration isn't gone.
[13:46] <didrocks> seb128: there is no need to package it right away, it's exactly the one we have in ubuntu right now
[13:47] <pitti> dobey: oh, is that ubuntuone-client-gnome? seems we don't install that by default any more
[13:47] <seb128> didrocks, ok, it's showing on version and I didn't look further
[13:47] <seb128> didrocks, thanks
[13:47] <didrocks> seb128: we need "ack, hide it for now" on version! :)
[13:47] <seb128> (we need a way to mark those out easily)
[13:47] <didrocks> seb128: yw ;)
[13:47] <seb128> indeed!
[13:47] <dobey> pitti: yes. there is a bug about it. and most everything should not be installed by default now, but seems there are some bugs with that still too
[13:47] <didrocks> argh, I told it first, is that me who have to do the patch? :)
[13:49] <seb128> didrocks, you won, congratulations! ;-)
[13:49] <dobey> pitti: i was on holiday last week and yesterday, but i'll be fixing up all these little bugs this week
[13:49] <didrocks> seb128: not sure it's the kind of game, I like winning :-)
[13:49] <seb128> :-)
[13:49] <pitti> dobey: ah, indeed; sorry for the false alarm
[13:49] <pitti> nessita: right, working
[13:50] <dobey> pitti: no worries :)
[13:50] <nessita> pitti: working? :-)
[13:50] <pitti> nessita: yeah, was missing ubuntuone-client-gnome
[13:50] <nessita> ah!
[13:52] <pitti> so, when I mark ~/Music for sync, that doesn't apper under "my folders" in the control panel
[13:52] <pitti> but it does appear in the web ui, so it seems to work
[13:53] <pitti> ah, now it appears in the control panel, too
[13:58] <nessita> pitti: controlpanel does not automatically updates :-/
[13:58] <nessita> pitti: you need to swtich tabs so the folder list reloads
[13:58] <pitti> nessita: right
[14:00] <pitti> seb128: darn, I just uploaded gedit-plugins 3.1.3 earlier this morning; updating again :)
[14:00] <seb128> pitti, ;-)
[14:00] <seb128> go GNOME go! ;-)
[14:00] <pitti> seb128: btw, for the ubuntu:foo branches, did you now that "bzr mu" just DTRT?
[14:01] <seb128> pitti, no, I didn't, I tend to update those the old way, apt-get source, edit, debuild, dput
[14:01] <pitti> (like for gedit-plugins or gvfs)
[14:01] <pitti> seb128: it uses debian/watch to run uscan, figures out the version, and merges it
[14:01] <pitti> as long as the package doesn't have patches, it's actually really nice
[14:01] <seb128> will try next time I run into one of those, thanks for the hint!
[14:01] <pitti> if it does have patches, I tend to unapply them and commit that
[14:02]  * mterry just realized he hadn't been on IRC all morning and waves
[14:02] <seb128> I hate lp:ubuntu with patches
[14:02] <seb128> hey mterry
[14:02] <pitti> seb128: right, that's insane
[14:02] <pitti> seb128: but mu directly gives you the code diff, in particular configure.ac diff etcc.
[14:07] <seb128> cyphermox_, hey
[14:07] <seb128> cyphermox_, will you do the evolution updates for GNOME 3.1.91?
[14:07] <seb128> cyphermox_, if you do those can you write them on the etherpad?
[14:09] <rodrigo_> hmm, gnome-contacts is still not on the desktop set, I thought I had emailed cjwatson about it
[14:10] <rodrigo_> ah, it's because it's in universe
[14:10] <seb128> rodrigo_, is gnome-contacts in main?
[14:11] <seb128> did you guys discuss getting it on the CD for oneiric again?
[14:11] <rodrigo_> seb128, no, in universe, that's why cjwatson didn't add it to the desktop set
[14:11] <rodrigo_> seb128, no
[14:11] <seb128> it was pending when I left for holidays
[14:11] <pitti> seb128: we did discuss it in last meeting, but we didn't actually find it very useful
[14:11] <pitti> seb128: does it do anything useful to you that you can't already do with empathy?
[14:11] <seb128> pitti, that was 2 weeks ago when I was still there I think
[14:12] <pitti> ah, perhaps
[14:12] <rodrigo_> seb128, 0.1.4 was just released, so I'll prepare an upload, and then you can please upload it?
[14:12] <seb128> pitti, I didn't really play with it but it's supposed to work with any e-d-s contact
[14:12] <seb128> so with evo, tb, empathy
[14:12] <rodrigo_> it's still a bit in a non-working state
[14:12] <rodrigo_> let me try 0.1.4
[14:12] <seb128> rodrigo_, sure, just put it as need sponsoring on the wiki and whoever first get to it will upload ;-)
[14:13] <rodrigo_> ok
[14:13] <seb128> seems it might be better to delay it to next cycle for the default install
[14:13] <seb128> if it's still not working great
[14:13] <rodrigo_> hmm, ditto for gnome-online-accounts, it's not on the desktop set
[14:13] <dobey> i wouldn't install it by default
[14:13] <dobey> it seems pretty broken still
[14:14] <dobey> pitti: is there a bug about the twisted glib integration using static bindings in oneiric?
[14:14] <pitti> dobey: haven't looked for one
[14:14] <seb128> rodrigo_, that one should probably be
[14:14] <seb128> rodrigo_, but put it on the etherpad I will have a look at sponsoring
[14:14] <rodrigo_> seb128, ok
[14:14] <rodrigo_> I'll send mail to cjwatson also
[14:15] <dobey> pitti: ok, i'll look and file/fix if not. just asking since nessita said she discussed the issue with you
[14:19] <rodrigo_> oh, gnome-contacts 0.1.4 depends on an unreleased version of folks
[14:21] <dobey> nice
[14:22] <dobey> didrocks: hey. where is the default launcher list stored for the unity launcher?
[14:22] <didrocks> dobey: in gsettings
[14:22] <didrocks> dobey: for the unity package itself
[14:23] <didrocks> (/usr/share/glib-2.0/schemas/com.canonical.Unity.gschema.xml once installed)
[14:23] <didrocks> dobey: why?
[14:24] <seb128> rodrigo_, gnome-online-account, it seems you forgot to update the .symbols?
[14:24] <rodrigo_> seb128, hmm, maybe
[14:24] <seb128> rodrigo_, do you want me to fix it?
[14:24] <seb128> rodrigo_, let me fix and upload
[14:24] <dobey> didrocks: i need to change the ubuntuone launcher
[14:25] <didrocks> dobey: tell me what to change, I'll do it directly in trunk
[14:25] <rodrigo_> seb128, I was going to fix it, so as you want :)
[14:25] <seb128> rodrigo_, I've the build done and the diff handy, I can as well do it
[14:25] <seb128> rodrigo_, since you need me to upload anyway
[14:25] <rodrigo_> seb128, ok, all yours then
[14:25] <dobey> didrocks: replace ubuntuone-control-panel-gtk.desktop with ubuntuone-installer.desktop
[14:27] <didrocks> dobey: done
[14:27] <didrocks> dobey: is the icon different?
[14:27] <didrocks> dobey: if so, you maybe need to notice the documentation team
[14:27] <dobey> didrocks: nope, same icon
[14:27] <didrocks> ok, great :)
[14:29] <Laney> ricotz: did you know gnome-shell got a debian-changes patch? also that it ftbfs?
[14:30] <seb128> hey Laney
[14:30] <seb128> Laney, will you do the tomboy update? ;-)
[14:30] <Laney> seb128: it was only translations, are you still interested in that?
[14:31] <seb128> Laney, well, translations are useful and it would show in green on our version page, so why not ;-) not hurry but it doesn't hurt either
[14:31] <Laney> ok i'll look at it later
[14:31] <seb128> thanks
[14:32] <Laney> Chipaca: did you make any progress on the syncdaemon removal?
[14:32] <ronoc> pitti, would I be correctin saying the guest session always has a UID of less than 500 ?
[14:33] <ronoc> pitti, second question, has the live cd user 'ubuntu' always have a UID of 999
[14:35] <pitti> ronoc: I wouldn't rely on guest having any particular UID
[14:35] <pitti> ronoc: live session user has uid 999, but of course that's not exclusively reserved for the live session
[14:35] <pitti> ronoc: what do you need to do?
[14:37] <ricotz> Laney, oh, you are right, where did that come from :\ -- how does it ftbfs?
[14:37] <Laney> erm, I just clicked one of the grip things in the terminal and now I can't click anything to show you
[14:37] <Laney> ... one second
[14:38] <ronoc> pitti, I'm just trying to detect when I'm logged in as the live user, I think I will just match against the user name of 'ubuntu' ?
[14:38] <pitti> ronoc: eww
[14:38] <ronoc> pitti,  I know but the hell else I'm supposed to do, this user crap is ridiculous
[14:38] <pitti> ronoc: anything which should be done specially in the live system ought to be done in casper
[14:38] <ronoc> casper ?
[14:38] <pitti> ronoc: so, what is your actual problem?
[14:39] <dobey> Laney: Chipaca is sprinting this week so may not be generally available
[14:39] <Laney> ok
[14:39] <dobey> Laney: i have been on holiday, so i'm not sure if he got a finished fix/patch for that, though
[14:40] <ronoc> pitti, the user menu which is bastardisation of old code from the session menu needs to be able to detect a number of things. Currently I have a bug whereby the user menu needs to be hidden when in a live session
[14:40] <dobey> i don't see one in my e-mail though
[14:40] <Laney> dobey: no rush, doesn't affect me, was just wondering
[14:40] <pitti> ronoc: casper is the package which prepares and starts a live session from the images
[14:41] <ronoc> pitti, so from the session service, should I jump through yet another  hoop to find out whether I'm in a live session or not
[14:41] <pitti> ronoc: is this indicator-session-service?
[14:41] <ronoc> yes
[14:41] <seb128> ronoc, pitti: the easiest would be to a gsettings to hide the menu and let casper set it
[14:41] <pitti> ah, no
[14:41] <seb128> "to add a"
[14:41] <pitti> or just have casper delete/rename the binary
[14:42] <seb128> it's also an user request, getting a key to allow hidding the menu
[14:42] <pitti> ah, then adding a gsettings key doesn't sound too bad
[14:42] <jbicha> ooh, there's been people asking for the ability to hide the usermenu
[14:42] <ronoc> seb128, but the menu needs to be hidden at all times anywya
[14:42] <ronoc> so the user request is ridiculous
[14:42] <seb128> ronoc, ?
[14:42] <rodrigo_> jbicha, hey
[14:42] <seb128> ronoc, why so?
[14:42] <rodrigo_> jbicha, I fixed the gnome-keyring build issue
[14:43] <ronoc> seb128, hidden when in a live session
[14:43] <jbicha> rodrigo_: yes I saw, thanks!
[14:43] <ronoc> seb128, it doesn't make sense to give people the ability to change user accounts from a live session
[14:43] <seb128> ronoc, well, the key could be set in the live session
[14:43] <pitti> ronoc: yes, casper can set the gsettings key, so it will be hidden in the live ssession
[14:43] <seb128> ronoc, but the key could also be used on installed systems by users who don't want the menu
[14:43] <Laney> ricotz: http://paste.debian.net/128615/
[14:43] <dobey> seb128: or by admins who don't want users to have the menu
[14:44] <ronoc> seb128, pitti, ok sounds good
[14:44] <ronoc> I'll do that now
[14:44] <seb128> thanks
[14:44] <Laney> ricotz: I was only rebuilding because it wouldn't start for me (to try and get a trace of the crash)
[14:44] <ricotz> Laney, this is caused by some stricter rules of g-i
[14:44] <ricotz> Laney, only 3.1.90.1 build with it
[14:44] <pitti> ronoc: ah, you un-claimed libgnomekbd?
[14:44] <pitti> sorry
[14:45] <pitti> rodrigo_: ^
[14:45] <rodrigo_> pitti, yes, not sure why my name was next to it, but I'll work on it as soon as I finish what I'm on right now, if nobody takes it before
[14:45] <ricotz> Laney, you would see similar with mutter < 3.1.90.1
[14:46] <pitti> rodrigo_: that's fine, I just wanted to do it this morning and then noticed that you had a lock on it
[14:46] <pitti> rodrigo_: so, I don't particularly mind, I can do it or do something else and leave it to you
[14:46] <rodrigo_> pitti, ah sorry then, take it if you want
[14:46] <pitti> but I generally prefer updating libs first
[14:46] <pitti> rodrigo_: ok, grabbing then (and glibmm2.4)
[14:47] <Laney> ricotz: ok then, why are we still on 3.1.4?
[14:47] <ricotz> jbicha, did you started some discussion about caribou vs onboard?
[14:48] <ricotz> Laney, gnome-shell hard depends on caribou which isnt available yet in the repos
[14:49] <ricotz> so either patching its dependency out or adding this new package are the options
[14:49] <jbicha> ricotz: yes, we discussed earlier on irc that it's too late to switch Ubuntu to caribou & I think my patch should work to undo the caribou dependency
[14:49] <Sweetshark> "slow keys are enabled" where the f*** does that come from and how do I kill it?
[14:49] <Laney> we surely need to resolve this ftbfs one way or another
[14:49] <Laney> also i'd like gnome-shell to actually start for me :-)
[14:50] <jbicha> alternatively, we could change the g-c-c patch to allow starting caribou instead of just onboard
[14:50] <jbicha> ricotz: did you want to update mutter or should I?
[14:51] <ricotz> i would like less patching ;), so the g-c-c solution seems saner
[14:51] <ricotz> jbicha, please go ahead
[14:51] <ricotz> jbicha, i g2g soon
[14:52] <jbicha> ricotz: ok
[14:52] <Laney> argh
[14:52] <Laney> live.g.o being down is really annoying
[14:53] <ricotz> Laney, kernel.org is annoying too ;)
[14:53] <jbicha> ricotz: the patch is temporary until rodrigo_ or someone can update g-c-c
[14:53] <rodrigo_> ricotz, jbicha: which patch?
[14:53] <ricotz> jbicha, ok, as long it works :P
[14:54] <ricotz> rodrigo_, to remove the hard-dep on caribou of gnome-shell
[14:54] <rodrigo_> ok
[14:54] <ricotz> rodrigo_, so changing g-c-c to support caribou again would be better
[14:55] <Laney> is caribou packaged?
[14:55] <ricotz> https://launchpad.net/~ricotz/+archive/testing/+sourcepub/1927752/+listing-archive-extra
[14:55] <Laney> what happens if you have both caribou and onboard?
[14:55] <jbicha> rodrigo_: we could use an option to allow users to pick caribou or onboard
[14:55] <ricotz> Laney, it is in debian-svn too
[14:56] <jbicha> Laney: g-c-c is patched to only start onboard
[14:56] <Laney> if you patch it to work with either
[14:56] <Laney> it'll prefer one I suppose
[14:58] <didrocks> hum, did we update to get valac 0.14 by default? (seems unity-greeter is requiring 0.13.1 by it deps on valac only)
[14:59] <pitti> didrocks: yes, valac points to 0.14 now (i. e. 0.13.3)
[14:59] <didrocks> ah, not the case here, changing the alternatives then, thanks pitti :)
[15:02] <seb128> didrocks, they have the same score we should probably tweak one of the series
[15:03] <didrocks> seb128: yeah, same score, we should raise the 0.14 one then, will do
[15:03] <seb128> didrocks, thanks
[15:03] <didrocks> yw
[15:03] <seb128> or lower the 0.12 one
[15:03] <seb128> either way ;-)
[15:03] <didrocks> indeed :)
[15:08] <doko> cyphermox_  do you still work on 831237?
[15:09] <didrocks> ok, seems the session runability should work :) make sense logout/login to test that, bbiab
[15:14] <pitti> . o O { build faster, damn webkit }
[15:22] <davmor2> guys I think there is an issue in the power/settings menu, I told me that my software was up-to-date but upon running update-manager there were 97 updates
[15:22] <pitti> jasoncwarner, Sweetshark, bryceh, chrisccoulson, didrocks, tremolux, Riddell, kenvandine, cyphermox, mterry, rodrigo_, seb128, tkamppeter, pedro_: meeting reminder in 8 mins
[15:23] <chrisccoulson> w00t
[15:23] <seb128> chrisccoulson, you looks like somebody who wants to update gnome-screensaver ;-)
[15:24] <pitti> I'll stop doing updates today, just gave glibmm2.4 back into the "to claim" pool
[15:24] <chrisccoulson> in a bit ;)
[15:24] <pitti> I can do more tomorrow, but webkit is killing my machine, and I'll be AFK after meeting
[15:24] <seb128> chrisccoulson, ok, you are noted down for it on the wiki!
[15:24] <chrisccoulson> thanks :)
[15:24] <seb128> pitti, thanks for the ones you did, we are pretty much at the bottom of the stack
[15:25] <seb128> will probably remain glib and gtk2 for tomorrow
[15:25] <pitti> yeah, neither of those build well in parallel with webkit
[15:25] <pitti> I'll see what I can get through tomorrow morning, before you guys wake up :)
[15:26] <seb128> pitti, ;-)
[15:30] <pitti> jasoncwarner, Sweetshark, bryceh, chrisccoulson, didrocks, tremolux, Riddell, kenvandine, cyphermox, mterry, rodrigo_, seb128, tkamppeter, pedro_: meeting starts
[15:30]  * pedro_ waves
[15:31] <chrisccoulson> hi!
[15:31] <rodrigo_> o/
[15:31] <pitti> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2011-09-06
[15:31] <didrocks> hey
[15:31] <seb128> hey pitti
[15:31] <pitti> Sweetshark, seb128: welcome back!
[15:31] <Sweetshark> o/
[15:31] <seb128> thanks ;-)
[15:31] <pitti> Sweetshark: so you didn't get "hack"ed into pieces?
[15:32] <Sweetshark> pitti: no, just a good shakeup on the flight back through the thunderstorm.
[15:32] <pitti> ken is on holidays, so no partner update today
[15:33] <Sweetshark> pitti: otherwise, it was really quite a success.
[15:33] <pitti> Sweetshark: nice! looking forward to your trip report
[15:33] <pitti> didrocks: as usual, very nice unity update on the wiki, merci! anythign to discuss?
[15:34] <didrocks> I guess it covers everything :)
[15:35] <ogra_> didrocks, are you caring for bug 839557 ?
[15:35] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 839557 in qt4-x11 "FFe: Qt 4.7.4" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/839557
[15:35] <mterry> hi
[15:35]  * ogra_ just left a note there, would be good to get vlc buildable again on arm
[15:35] <didrocks> ogra_: yeah, it's in the ubuntu-desktop ppa, see the team meeting report we are just doing :)
[15:36] <ogra_> didrocks, awesome !
[15:36] <didrocks> ogra_: and see the recent discussion with doko on #ubuntu-devel :)
[15:36] <ogra_> doko, ^^^
[15:36] <pitti> tremolux: anythign which we ought to discuss about s-c?
[15:36] <ogra_> oh, i missed that :)
[15:36] <pitti> tremolux: I actually have a question there
[15:36] <tremolux> pitti: hello! sure, fire away
[15:36]  * ogra_ was doing the vlc stuff as a side thing only 
[15:37] <pitti> tremolux: what's the kind of feedback in terms of bugs/IRC rants/etc you got from beta-1?
[15:37] <pitti> tremolux: I didn't notice an outburst of people complaining that it doesn't work, or anythign like that
[15:37] <tremolux> pitti: right, that's my impression also, at least if they are complaining a lot, I don't know where  ;)
[15:38] <tremolux> we do have crashes and lots of rough edges that people complain about in bug reports
[15:38] <pitti> tremolux: and now that oneconf is in, I guess there is not a lot of reason to switch back; WDYT?
[15:38] <tremolux> but we are fixing those as quickly as we can
[15:39] <pedro_> there were a few crashes in s-c  but i must say that they were fixed really quickly :-)
[15:39] <tremolux> pitti: well, I did not know there was an option to switch back!
[15:39] <pedro_> bug patterns were written for most of them
[15:39] <rodrigo_> :)
[15:39] <pitti> tremolux: well, it would have been the obvious contingency plan in case -gtk 3 fell apart, or oneconf broke, etc.
[15:39] <tremolux> pitti: yep  :)
[15:39]  * pitti hugs pedro_
[15:39] <pitti> tremolux: do you plan to keep -gtk2 as a fallback, or do you want to remove it from the package completely?
[15:39] <tremolux> pitti: but yes, it seems things are really not in bad shape
[15:40] <tremolux> pitti: so far, we will keep it I think
[15:40] <tremolux> pitti: but yeah, there will be no use maintaining that at all so it should go as soon as we can
[15:40] <pitti> ok, thanks
[15:40] <tremolux> pedro_: yes, thanks for the bugpatterns!!  :)
[15:41] <pitti> another general plea: please update your remaining WIs (or postpone them as appropriate)
[15:41] <pitti> otherwise I'll need to steal your time individually to talk about them
[15:41] <pedro_> tremolux, you're welcome :-)
[15:41] <pitti> we just need to ensure that we don't keep lose ends
[15:41] <pitti> AOB?
[15:42] <pedro_> o/
[15:42] <seb128> that was an efficient meeting ;-)
[15:42] <pitti> pedro_: please go ahead
[15:42] <didrocks> was so quick! :)
[15:42] <pedro_> we still have a few bugs assigned to the team which are targeted to Oneiric : http://status.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-desktop/oneiric.html
[15:42] <pitti> well, nothing do discuss so far :)
[15:42]  * Sweetshark looks around: "Where is my meeting?"
[15:42] <rodrigo_> pedro_, "a few" is too optimistic :)
[15:42] <pitti> (in fact, at some point we should re-discuss the purpose and structure of the meeting; perhaps at UDS)
[15:42] <pedro_> would be nice if you guys can review the list and start assigning those to individuals
[15:42] <pedro_> so they can be worked ;-)
[15:42] <pedro_> or assign everything to rodrigo_
[15:42] <pedro_> oops
[15:43]  * rodrigo_ leaves
[15:43] <seb128> yeah, I vote for assigning to rodrigo_
[15:43] <tremolux> haha
[15:43] <seb128> they are mostly g-c-c bugs anyway
[15:43] <rodrigo_> pedro_, hmm, that's a different report from the other one you had
[15:43] <seb128> ;-)
[15:43] <rodrigo_> http://people.canonical.com/~pedro/desktop/canonical-desktop-team-assigned-bug-tasks.html
[15:43] <pedro_> but that's more or less , please review and lets keep the fixing  ball rolling
[15:43] <rodrigo_> so, should we follow the other one?
[15:43] <pitti> pedro_: you mean the ones assigned to the team? right, I'll have a pass over those
[15:43] <rodrigo_> I was looking at http://people.canonical.com/~pedro/desktop/canonical-desktop-team-assigned-bug-tasks.html all the time
[15:43] <pedro_> pitti, yeah
[15:44] <pedro_> rodrigo_, that's for 'all' the bugs in launchpad, the other is just listing the reports with an Oneiric task
[15:44] <rodrigo_> ah
[15:44] <didrocks> pedro_: come on! we will get bugs assigned because of you! Hope you are happy :-)
[15:44] <pitti> pedro_: and the "none" ones, too
[15:44] <pedro_> didrocks, oh that's the idea, make me happier ;-)
[15:44] <rodrigo_> the ones for g-c-c and g-s-d can be assigned to me, yes
[15:44] <rodrigo_> the others not :)
[15:45] <pedro_> pitti, indeed
[15:45] <pedro_> pitti, that's all from here
[15:45] <pitti> pedro_: thanks; I'll garden the list this week
[15:45] <pitti> AOB?
[15:45] <pedro_> thanks!
[15:46] <pitti> 3
[15:46] <pitti> 2
[15:46] <pitti> 1
[15:46] <didrocks> 0 ?
[15:46] <pitti> adjourned, thanks all! let's get back to finish off 3.1.91
[15:46] <didrocks> thanks everyone! :-)
[15:46]  * didrocks breaks the login now
[15:46] <pitti> rodrigo_: that said, https://bugs.launchpad.net/~rodrigo-moya/+assignedbugs looks pretty bad :/
[15:47] <pitti> rodrigo_: I think that list should not exceed 20 or so for anyone
[15:47] <rodrigo_> pitti, there are a lot of u1-related ones
[15:47] <pitti> rodrigo_: do you want to unassign stuff you don't realistically get to?
[15:47] <rodrigo_> I'll go over the list and assign them back to the u1 team
[15:47] <pitti> rodrigo_: would you like me to help there and run through the list and unassign the less important ones?
[15:48] <rodrigo_> pitti, if you want to do a pass over them, cool
[15:48] <pitti> +assignedbugs is quite a nice tool for organizing ones work, but of course it gets worse the longer it is
[15:49] <pitti> rodrigo_: that's why I'm asking you; some people don't like me interfering there, some others feel "afraid" of unassigning themselves
[15:49] <rodrigo_> pitti, I'm not afraid, so go over it if you want :)
[15:49] <pitti> rodrigo_: ok, will do
[15:49] <rodrigo_> getting less bugs for oneself is always good :)
[15:49] <nessita> dpm_: ping
[15:50] <rodrigo_> btw, all evo-couchdb bugs, not sure what to do, as desktopcouch is completely broken in oneiric
[15:50] <rodrigo_> and no fix is in the horizon
[15:50] <pitti> is someone from u1 actually workign on desktopcouch?
[15:50] <rodrigo_> no
[15:50] <pitti> seems it's a rather crticial piece of infrastructure for U1, or is it not?
[15:51] <rodrigo_> welll, there's a community guy, I think, having a look
[15:51] <rodrigo_> pitti, yes, it is
[15:51] <rodrigo_> not only for contacts, but also for bindwood, and 3rd party apps that use desktopcouch
[15:52] <chrisccoulson> yeah, i keep getting people pinging me about desktopcouch as well, thinking that thunderbird is broken
[15:52] <chrisccoulson> it keeps displaying the addressbook errors propagated from desktopcouch
[15:52] <rodrigo_> chrisccoulson, I feel your pain :)
[15:52] <dpm_> hi nessita, about to start an app developer week session, I'll have to come back to you later on. In the meantime feel free to ask and I'll read the scrollback
[15:53] <nessita> dpm_: hi there! would you have any hint on how to debug this bug? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-sso-client/+bug/841120
[15:53] <ubot2`> Ubuntu bug 841120 in ubuntu-sso-client "Translated strings show untranslated" [Undecided,Confirmed]
[15:53] <pitti> rodrigo_: ah, I can't unassign you from upstream projects; so I'm afraid you need to unassign yourself for the evo-couchdb ones
[15:53] <rodrigo_> pitti, no problem, will do it later, I need to get out now for a bit
[15:54] <rodrigo_> pitti, maybe you can look at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/natty/+source/evolution-rss/+bug/773763 , there's a branch attached to it
[15:54] <ubot2`> Ubuntu bug 773763 in evolution-rss "evolution freeze on startup with the plug-in "evolution-rss"" [High,In progress]
[15:55] <dpm_> pitti, I think nessita's bug might have to do with a translation file being distributed in the kde language packs, where it should be in the gnome or the generic ones (bug 773763) ^^
[15:55] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 773763 in evolution-rss "evolution freeze on startup with the plug-in "evolution-rss"" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/773763
[15:55] <dpm_> argh, wrong bug
[15:55] <dpm_> anyway, the link is up there ^
[15:56]  * pedro_ -> lunch
[15:56] <rodrigo_> ok, out for a bit now, bbl
[15:58] <GunnarHj> pitti: Hi Martin, are you there?
[15:59] <pitti> rodrigo_: want me to sponsor this? queueing
[16:00] <pitti> dpm_: uh? you mean 841120?
[16:00] <pitti> hello GunnarHj
[16:00] <GunnarHj> pitti: Possibly I have found The Solution to the ssh connection issue with LC_* vars. :)
[16:00] <dpm_> pitti, yeah
[16:00] <GunnarHj> https://code.launchpad.net/~gunnarhj/ubuntu/oneiric/accountsservice/unset-lcmess/+merge/73219
[16:02] <pitti> ok, need to leave for today
[16:02] <pitti> GunnarHj: will have a look tomorrow morning and comment there
[16:03] <GunnarHj> pitti: Ok, no problem.
[16:07] <seb128> pitti, see you tomorrow!
[16:09] <charlie-tca> Can someone take a look at bug 769256, which completely breaks the screen reader in oneiric?
[16:09] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 769256 in gtk+3.0 "Gdk enumerations do not contain GType info in GIR" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/769256
[16:10] <joanie> charlie-tca: You beat me to it. :-)
[16:10] <charlie-tca> I also need to bring bug 841817 to someones attention?
[16:10] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 841817 in system-config-printer "system-config-printer missing from menus" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/841817
[16:10] <charlie-tca> The only ones with printer ability in oneiric now is Unity users
[16:11] <joanie> If I could be so bold as to suggest that the complete inaccessibility of Ubuntu is a tad more critical than a printer....
[16:12] <joanie> Seriously, without bug 769256 fixed, Assistive Technologies will no longer work in Ubuntu.
[16:12] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 769256 in gtk+3.0 "Gdk enumerations do not contain GType info in GIR" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/769256
[16:12] <seb128> charlie-tca, the gtk issue seems like something for pitti, he left for the day but he might read the backlog or ping him tomorrow
[16:12] <GunnarHj> cjwatson: Hi Colin, still there?
[16:12] <Pendulum> seb128: thanks :)
[16:12] <Pendulum> (on the gtk issue and knowing who to poke :)
[16:12] <joanie> Seeing as how the bug has been in existence since April and not addressed.....
[16:12] <joanie> Can we count on Pitti doing something upon return?
[16:13] <joanie> Because I know I'm going to be hearing about this from my Orca users upstream
[16:13] <seb128> joanie, we will look at it tomorrow yes
[16:13] <joanie> seb128: awesome. Thank you.
[16:13] <seb128> joanie, it's weird that if it's breaking a11y since april nobody raised it as an issue before
[16:13] <joanie> seb128: here's the deal with that
[16:13] <seb128> like it was not triaged, not nominated for oneiric, not mentioned on weekly meetings
[16:13] <joanie> Upstream made a change w.r.t. introspection
[16:14] <joanie> before it was something ATs should "really get around to doing."
[16:14] <joanie> then without telling us it became something ATs "must do now or else they will not work."
[16:14] <joanie> So we made the required conversion to use gobject-introspection
[16:14] <joanie> and now that we have, our ATs work great in jhbuild
[16:14] <joanie> and Fedora
[16:14] <joanie> and tank upon launch in Ubuntu
[16:15] <charlie-tca> Thank you, seb128
[16:15] <charlie-tca> I will raise it with pitti tomorrow
[16:15] <seb128> yw
[16:15] <joanie> so this is a case where upstream elsewhere does something unfortunate
[16:16] <joanie> and upstream ATs and some downstreams pay the price
[16:16] <joanie> that I have no control over
[16:16] <joanie> but we have a TON of Orca ubuntu users
[16:16] <joanie> and we'd like to keep them ;-)
[16:17] <Pendulum> well, I think Ubuntu would like to keep them too ;-)
[16:17] <joanie> Pendulum: of that I have no doubts
[16:18] <joanie> Or else I would not be here saying, "omg, omg!" :-)
[16:18] <seb128> joanie, yeah, no worry, I just said why we didn't notice it
[16:18]  * joanie nods
[16:19] <joanie> for future reference, and said largely to Pendulum:
[16:19] <seb128> the bug was not triaged, had no settings, no comments, no nomination and was not mentioned on IRC
[16:19] <joanie> Eitan (eeejay) is like our upstream prodigy
[16:19] <joanie> in other words, he was working on Caribou's introspection port prior to it being mandatory
[16:19] <joanie> ;-)
[16:19] <eeejay> joanie, you are setting me up...
[16:19] <joanie> eeejay: hey!
[16:19] <joanie> I didn't even see you in here
[16:20]  * joanie blushes
[16:20] <joanie> But my point guys is this:
[16:20] <joanie> (sorry eeejay)
[16:20] <joanie> If eeejay reports something (like this bug)
[16:20] <joanie> triage it
[16:20] <joanie> because ultimately when us non-prodigy devs get around to doing our jobs
[16:20] <eeejay> joanie, thanks for nagging
[16:20] <joanie> whatever he reported SHALL bite you
[16:21] <eeejay> joanie, it is also easily fixable in pyatspi
[16:21] <joanie> eeejay: dude, it wasn't a choice. API told me Orca won't even run in oneiric
[16:21] <charlie-tca> Even better, when eeejay reports something like this, let us know
[16:21] <joanie> and I tried it and sure enough, fearless leader was fearlessly correct
[16:21] <charlie-tca> With thousands of bugs being reported weekly, we don't get to see all of them
[16:21] <joanie> charlie-tca: for what it is worth, he subscribed me to the bug, but my bug notifications/email didn't cause me to get notified
[16:21] <joanie> or else I would have poked sooner
[16:22] <joanie> but it looks like he did subscribe Pendulum
[16:22] <charlie-tca> But we have to understand the full impact to know what to do about it, too.
[16:22] <joanie> so I'm just requesting humbly that Pendulum be on the lookout for eeejay-filed accessibility bugs downstream
[16:22] <joanie> charlie-tca: One could argue that it is downstream's job to stay on top of downstream related issues
[16:23] <joanie> like I said, Orca works awesomely in Fedora
[16:24] <joanie> anyhoo, I need to run and see what other craziness awaits me in my inbox. Pendulum and seb128: thank  you again VERY MUCH for following up on this issue
[16:48] <jbicha> ronoc: pitti: use this to disable the user menu: http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=11223893&postcount=18
[16:49] <ronoc> jbicha, no that was not where we intended that key to go
[16:49] <ronoc> jbicha, it should be in the gsettings for the session service
[16:49] <jcastro> jbicha: what's the canonical package to bring in the proper gnome3 desktop? with shell and everything? "gnome-desktop3"?
[16:50] <jbicha> unintentional bug/feature? lol
[16:50] <jbicha> jcastro: for Ubuntu, you should just need to install gnome-shell, gnome-panel if you want that in addition
[16:51] <jcastro> what does gnome-panel bring in, like the fallback desktop thing?
[16:51] <ronoc> jbicha, Ill speak with him in the morning
[16:51] <jbicha> jcastro: yes, I'd also install gnome-tweak-tool because of bug 800315
[16:51] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 800315 in light-themes "light-themes don't fully support Gnome Shell" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/800315
[16:52] <seb128> jcastro, gnome-desktop3 is a library, it's not going to bring a desktop, install gnome-shell
[16:52] <ronoc> jbicha, seb128 because the idea was that we could allow users to turn off the user menu or any other indicator menu using a gsettings entry
[16:52] <jcastro> ok so basically, "gnome-shell" is what we tell people when they want a normal GNOME desktop experience then?
[16:53] <jbicha> jcastro: yes, it won't pull in Evolution or Epiphany but it does pull in the normal GNOME
[16:53] <Laney> can't we have something like the debian meta packages?
[16:54] <jbicha> Laney: gnome-shell is the metapackage basically, unless people really want a metapackage to give them Epiphany
[16:55] <jbicha> well I guess that presumes that people don't try to remove unity & ubuntu-desktop
[16:55] <Laney> http://packages.debian.org/sid/gnome
[16:55] <Laney> yes
[16:56] <Laney> ideally we get an ubuntu gnome 3 remix
[16:56] <Laney> :-)
[17:00] <seb128> would be nice ;-)
[17:00] <seb128> jbicha, btw I just commented on your "don't force shotwell in the dash" unity merge request
[17:01] <jbicha> I don't have a personal need to remove Unity just to use GNOME Shell, but the appropriate metapackage would be useful for those who want to or want to build a remix CD
[17:01] <jbicha> the Debian gnome3 metapackage seems to have stalled: http://anonscm.debian.org/viewvc/pkg-gnome/desktop/experimental/meta-gnome3/
[17:01] <jbicha> they never published the package
[17:02] <Laney> i'm sure that will come when gnome 3 goes to unstable
[17:02] <jbicha> so it might not happen for Oneiric then
[17:03] <didrocks> ok, enough for today, have a good evening everyone!
[17:03] <seb128> 'night didrocks
[17:04] <didrocks> seb128: thanks, you too :)
[17:05] <jbicha> seb128: you're right, it would be nice if Shotwell weren't hardcoded though...
[17:05] <seb128> jbicha, yeah, I'm not sure what the best way to deal with that though, gsettings key? but what users would find it there...
[17:06] <seb128> it's the same issue than "media player"
[17:06] <jbicha> personally I'd like to see Shotwell be the default image viewer to make it easily consistent but there's the formats problem
[17:06] <seb128> right
[17:06] <seb128> and even if it was default it would be a different .desktop that run it in viewer mode I guess
[17:06] <seb128> which is not what you want to call from the dash grid
[17:06] <jbicha> on the other hand, shouldn't shotwell be the default jpeg viewer though?
[17:06] <seb128> you want the collection mode
[17:07] <seb128> not sure
[17:07] <seb128> it would be confusing to have different application when clicking on i.e a jpg and a png
[17:07] <seb128> or a jpg and a gif
[17:07] <seb128> you probably want the "image viewer" to be used in a consistent way to display images
[17:09] <jbicha> I don't use bmp's much, it's more confusing that jpgs don't already open in Shotwell for me
[17:11] <seb128> would you expect shotwell to open in library mode with your photo selected or in viewer mode?
[17:12] <seb128> jbicha, to the user I'm not sure eog or shotwell in viewer mode makes a difference, neither of those look like the main shotwell ui
[17:12] <seb128> though shotwell viewer is closer since it has the same toolbar at the bottom of the view
[17:13] <seb128> not sure how much users care about the "gallery" view in the viewer as well, shotwell misses that
[17:13] <jbicha> if I double-click on a picture I expect shotwell viewer, I think the viewer needs a button to open the library mode though
[17:14] <seb128> for that it would need to know if you open a photo from your library or a random image from an email
[17:14] <seb128> but yeah, I agree on principle with you, ideally we wouldn't need eog
[17:15] <seb128> in really we have both and each has some limitations, it's somewhat suboptimal but without an easy fix
[17:15] <seb128> but feel free to raise the "shotwell should be the default viewer" on the lists, I've no strong opinion about it, it might be a better option than eog
[17:15] <seb128> there is pros and cons for each as I see it
[17:19] <jbicha> seb128: are you busy? I proposed the mutter/gnome-shell update which should be a lot more stable than the current Oneiric version
[17:20] <seb128> jbicha, I will have a look
[17:22] <jbicha> ooh, live.gnome.org is up
[17:40] <mterry> seb128, heyo.  Do you know why ubuntuone-couch is still in universe?  According to bug 491644, it should have been promoted already (a while ago)
[17:41] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 491644 in deja-dup "[MIR] deja-dup and friends" [Wishlist,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/491644
[17:42] <seb128> mterry, it's not really clear, it was promoted at some point if you look at https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/oneiric/+source/ubuntuone-couch/0.2.0-0ubuntu4
[17:43] <mterry> hrm
[17:43] <seb128> mterry, my guess is that it showed in component mismatch because nobody was depending or recommending it in main so doko or somebody else demoted it to clean component mismatch
[17:43] <seb128> nobody->nothing
[17:44] <mterry> seb128, omg.  deja-dup recommends ubuntone-couch...  *not* ubuntuone-couch!
[17:44] <mterry> wow
[17:44] <seb128> there you go ;-)
[17:44] <desrt> seb128: hey
[17:44] <seb128> hey desrt
[17:44] <desrt> seb128: you know this gnome-settings-daemon crasher business?
[17:45] <seb128> desrt, I've been reading #gtk+
[17:45] <desrt> ah.  good.
[17:45] <doko> seb128, pitti is the mass demoter ...
[17:45] <seb128> desrt, I don't think we have a testcase, it doesn't happen to most users
[17:45] <desrt> back to #gtk then :)
[17:47] <mterry> doko, can you please repromote ubuntuone-couch?  I just fixed the packaging typo in deja-dup that caused no one to depend on it
[17:47] <dobey> hey guys, do you have any odd process things i should be aware of for proposing a merge into an ~ubuntu-desktop owned branch?
[17:48] <seb128> dobey, no
[17:48] <dobey> seb128: ok. https://code.launchpad.net/~dobey/indicator-me/no-ubuntuone/+merge/74271 :)
[17:48] <seb128> dobey, indicator-me has been deleted from oneiric, it's replaced by indicator-session
[17:49] <seb128> dobey, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/indicator-me/+publishinghistory
[17:49] <dobey> seb128: uhm, when did that happen?
[17:50] <seb128> dobey, see the url I gave you
[17:50] <dobey> seb128: hrmm, why is ubuntuone-control-panel-gtk still on the CD then?
[17:51] <dobey> apt-cache rdepends only shows me indicator-me/indicator-me-gtk2 depending on it
[17:51] <dobey> does rdepends not show recommends?
[17:52] <seb128> dobey, unity recommends it
[17:52] <seb128> hum no it doesn't
[17:52] <seb128> wait
[17:52] <dobey> no it doesn't
[17:53] <BigWhale> Ubuntu Mono is not in Oneiric!? *cry*
[17:53] <doko> mterry, done
[17:53] <mterry> doko, thanks!
[17:54] <dobey> seb128: hrmm, and indicator-me is in universe
[17:55] <seb128> dobey, ok
[17:55] <seb128> dobey, deja-dup Recommends ubuntuone-control-panel
[17:56] <seb128> ubuntuone-control-panel Recommends ubuntuone-control-panel-gui
[17:56] <seb128> ubuntuone-control-panel provides ubuntuone-control-panel-gui
[17:56] <seb128> ups
[17:56] <seb128> ubuntuone-control-panel-gtk provides ubuntuone-control-panel-gui
[17:56] <dobey> ugh
[17:56] <dobey> right, ok
[17:56] <seb128> that's your "why it's on the CD" chain
[17:56] <dobey> seb128: should indicator-me get removed from universe?
[17:57] <seb128> dobey, it will fall off when things will stop depending on it
[17:57] <seb128> which is blocked on ted to get indicator-applet ported to GNOME3
[17:57] <seb128> we can't rebuild the current version, it wants old gnome-panel libs
[17:57] <dobey> oh
[17:58] <dobey> seb128: ok, well indicator-me shouldn't depend on ubuntuone-control-panel-gtk either way, so i guess my branch is still valid :)
[17:58] <dobey> and i'll fix deja-dup too
[17:59] <dobey> mterry: why does it recommends control panel btw?
[18:00] <mterry> dobey, it requests the quota size from the controlpanel service
[18:01] <dobey> mterry: what happens if that's not available?
[18:03] <mterry> dobey, it will act as if the user has infinite space available, and will not clean up older backups as we approach the real life limit correctly
[18:04] <dobey> mterry: is there any reason you're not getting that info from the REST API, given that is what you're using for actually putting the files on the server?
[18:06] <mterry> dobey, yes and no.  I could do that, but (A) the REST stuff is in python in a different package (duplicity) whereas duplicity is written in vala which has less fun REST usage and (B) this code was written before the REST api was actually public
[18:06] <mterry> rather, deja-dup is written in vala
[18:07] <mterry> dobey, is there a problem using the controlpanel?
[18:07] <dobey> mterry: i'm trying to remove ubuntuone-control-panel from the default install
[18:08] <mterry> ah
[18:09] <mterry> dobey, would the REST API be the only other way to request quote then?
[18:09] <mterry> quota
[18:09] <dobey> and i didn't realize deja-dup was using it that way. i thought you were using all REST, to avoid syncing and having the folder on the local computer
[18:10] <dobey> mterry: no. i think control panel just gets it from the syncdaemon. but we are trying to remove that from default install too.
[18:11] <dobey> mterry: is the ubuntuone part of deja-dup a plug-in? or is it compiled in the deja-dup binary?
[18:11] <mterry> :)
[18:11] <achiang> oh dear, can't login via lightdm anymore
[18:11] <mterry> dobey, it's dynamically used if all the dependencies are installed
[18:11] <mterry> dobey, so more like plug in
[18:11] <mterry> dobey, but there is no in-app way to say "enable U1 support"
[18:11] <dobey> mterry: ah, what are all the dependencies?
[18:13] <mterry> dobey, ubuntuone-client, python-ubuntuone-client, ubuntone-couch
[18:13] <mterry> dobey, and the control panel to get quota right
[18:14] <dobey> ok
[18:17] <mterry> dobey, so in your ideal world, DD would just use REST API?
[18:18] <mterry> dobey, I'm not sure I can make that happen this cycle
[18:18] <mterry> Well, I could, but it would be non-trivial.  How important is it?
[18:19] <dobey> mterry: we can do REST next cycle i guess. and i think i can make a fix to the deps chain for this cycle to get what we want for u1, and not cause DD to blow up :)
[18:31] <mterry> dobey, will the control panel service still be available for it's use by default?  I'd like to not break quota checking
[18:32] <dobey> mterry: not by default, but it will get installed by ubuntuone-installer
[18:33] <mterry> dobey, which will get triggered by DD trying to use other ubuntuone services?  (like logging in, etc?)
[18:33] <dobey> mterry: so i'm thinking moving the deps to Suggsets in deja-dup, and having ubuntuone-installer install the pieces that deja-dup needs
[18:33]  * mterry is a little confused by new installer world order
[18:34] <dobey> mterry: no. the installer has to be run, but it will be the [u1] icon on the launcher by default
[18:34] <dobey> mterry: so on a fresh install if a user sets up u1, and uses deja-dup, it should just start working i guess?
[18:35] <mterry> dobey, OK...  But it sounds like if they use DD first, they won't see U1 as an option, because those services won't be running
[18:35] <dobey> mterry: iow, i presume you're not doing anything if the user hasn't already configured u1?
[18:35] <mterry> dobey, we offer a login/register button, but that's it
[18:35] <seb128> this u1-installer business seems a step back compared to what we had
[18:35] <seb128> is the "why you are doing that" documented somewhere?
[18:36] <seb128> (just curious)
[18:36] <dobey> seb128: the blueprint(s) i think?
[18:36] <seb128> do you have a blueprint name?
[18:36] <dobey> seb128: baiscally "move toward a unified setup process across all supported platforms"
[18:36] <seb128> launchpad blueprints have quite some junks
[18:36] <dobey> let me get them
[18:37] <seb128> ok, don't bother, I see
[18:37] <pgraner> 17
[18:37] <seb128> it's a let's lower the experience on what we get on our concurrent platforms rather than optimize to do better where we control the experience
[18:37] <mterry> dobey, it sounds like it would be good to trigger u1 installer if possible
[18:37] <mterry> in DD
[18:37]  * mterry looks into that
[18:38] <seb128> it's pretty lame but I guess other argued before me and I will not win that argument so I should not bother ;-)
[18:38] <dobey> seb128: unfortunately, the least common denominator almost always sucks
[18:38] <dobey> seb128: trust me, i have been arguing against it from the idea's inception :)
[18:38] <seb128> yeah, which is why it's a stupid thing to do where you can add value on the platform you control
[18:39] <jbicha> what other supported platforms are there? just older Ubuntu versions?
[18:39] <dobey> jbicha: windows
[18:39] <jbicha> that doesn't make any sense then
[18:40] <jbicha> Windows doesn't come with hardly anything out of the box that Ubuntu does
[18:42] <dobey> you don't need to try to argue with me about it. i'm just trying to minimize the pain in the process while doing what i have to do :)
[18:42] <Sweetshark> jasoncwarner_: ping?
[18:43] <jbicha> dobey: yeah I'm not arguing with you, it's just weird, it's not like Windows has a Ubuntu One installer pre-installed either, lol
[18:44] <dobey> well no, you download the installer.exe and run it, which is fine because windows doesn't require you to have crap all over the filesystem to provide a runnable app. you can just shove everything in the .exe :)
[18:46] <dobey> i suppose we could just pull everything from the archives, and i can write the installer in C# instead, and have the same result. "download this binary and run it, and we'll add some PPAs and install Ubuntu ONe."
[18:46] <dobey> but i'm trying to make the experience at least not be totally horrible with it :)
[18:48] <dobey> anyway, i don't need to know that some people don't like it. i already know that. i need to know how i can get what i need to get done, done, and have the experience remain reasonably ok :)
[18:52] <Laney> isn't it getting on in the cycle to be doing this?
[18:54] <hyperair> imo opensuse's one-click install thing works pretty well
[18:54] <hyperair> can't we fix apturl to support the stuff you need?
[18:55] <hyperair> afaik there was some random crap about how it shouldn't be easy to add PPAs.
[18:55]  * hyperair shrugs
[18:55] <hyperair> because teaching users to download and execute random crap to install their software is any better.
[18:57] <dobey> i don't see how apturl would do what we need, at all
[18:58] <Laney> is this basically "we don't want to support our previous releases"?
[18:58] <hyperair> heh.
[18:59] <hyperair> dobey: what do you need, exactly?
[18:59] <dobey> i need people to stop moaning about the damn installer :)
[18:59] <hyperair> what installer?
[18:59] <dobey> ubuntuone-installer
[19:00] <hyperair> is this some pseudo-package thing in the same light as flashplugin-installer?
[19:00] <dobey> no
[19:00] <hyperair> (sorry, i can't tell because of your lovely oneline description)
[19:01] <hyperair> so exactly what does this thing do?
[19:01] <dobey> it's an app that installs ubuntu one stuff, that itself is installed by default.
[19:02] <hyperair> so ubuntuone is installed by default, and there's additional stuff that this app installs.
[19:02] <dobey> no
[19:02]  * hyperair is confused.
[19:02] <hyperair> what are "Ubuntu One client applications"?
[19:02] <hyperair> or you don't say, ubuntuone installer is here to install ubuntuone which is already installed.
[19:03] <hyperair> why would you need to install ubuntuone if it's already installed?
[19:03] <Laney> they are trying to make u1 not installed by default
[19:03] <hyperair> .
[19:03] <Laney> but you use this installer thingy instead
[19:03] <dobey> ubuntuone is not already installed
[19:03] <hyperair> ..
[19:03] <hyperair> ...
[19:03] <hyperair> at this point, the only thing going through my mind is..
[19:03] <hyperair> but why?!
[19:03] <kscloud> Having horrible wireless issues, should I file a bug against NM?
[19:04] <hyperair> Laney: disk space issues?
[19:04] <Laney> i think there is some plan to use a ppa and bypass the archive
[19:05] <hyperair> oh dear, i don't have enough palms for the amount of facepalms this needs.
[19:05] <Laney> i'm pretty uninformed though and could be talking lies
[19:05] <hyperair> i hope you are.
[19:06] <Laney> but look in ubuntuone/installer/gui.py:374
[19:07]  * hyperair apt-get sources
[19:08] <hyperair> hmm it looks like a PPA.
[19:08] <micahg> hyperair: the installer isn't allowed to add a PPA by default
[19:08] <Laney> i think that's disabled /for oneiric/
[19:08] <hyperair> ah.
[19:08] <hyperair> micahg: but why does it even want to install a PPA?
[19:08] <hyperair> micahg: can we seriously not ship stuff ubuntuone needs in main?
[19:09] <micahg> hyperair: no idea, there was more information in the FFe or MIR bug for the installer
[19:09] <hyperair> micahg: got link?
[19:09] <Laney> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntuone-installer/+bug/817133
[19:09] <ubot2`> Ubuntu bug 817133 in ubuntuone-installer "[FFe] [needspackaging] ubuntuone-installer needs packaged" [High,Fix released]
[19:10] <Laney> "agile delivery"
[19:10] <dobey> like i said, i need people to stop moaning about it :)
[19:10] <hyperair> Laney: i like comment #5
[19:11] <hyperair> dobey: moaning about the ubuntuone installer adding PPAs?
[19:11] <dobey> no
[19:11] <dobey> moaning about ubuntuone installer existing
[19:11] <dobey> the PPA whining is just an aside, and we aren't adding a PPA in oneiric anyway
[19:13] <seb128> thanks to pitti and others who resisted on that? ;-)
[19:14] <hyperair> heh
[19:14] <dobey> no
[19:15] <hyperair> well if the installer's just there to poke apt to install stuff, then why not, right? nautilus-share does the same thing with samba/libpam-smbsomething
[19:16] <hyperair> dobey: the term "agile delivery" is kinda suspicious though.
[19:16] <dobey> yeah, well, we can't all be firefox
[19:17] <hyperair> firefox isn't excluded from the CD to be installed by some obscure firefox-installer.
[19:17] <seb128> well I think the idea from the u1 team is to bypass the ubuntu team since they got told no to updates before since those don't match sru criterious
[19:17] <hyperair> i don't see how firefox compares to this situation.
[19:17] <dobey> firefox gets to have major version updates to stable releases
[19:17] <hyperair> seb128: that rings alarm bells.
[19:17] <seb128> there is probably a real issue there and not specific to u1 though
[19:17] <dobey> nobody else does
[19:18] <hyperair> dobey: what's wrong with making microreleases? banshee does that.
[19:18] <dobey> i don't know, ask mozilla
[19:18] <hyperair> dobey: i'm talking about ubuntuone.
[19:18] <seb128> which is that people who write software want to be able to ship them according to their schedule and not according to whatever distributor schedule
[19:18] <micahg> dobey: not true, you can ask the TB for a microreleaseexception
[19:18] <dobey> banshee doesn't provide a server and a client
[19:18] <hyperair> dobey: the ubuntuone team doesn't have to exhibit asshole behaviour just because mozilla has set a precedence.
[19:18] <micahg> dobey: oh major versions?  chromium also has that, mainly because it's unsupportable otherwise
[19:19] <Laney> the browser vendors are setting a terrible precedent, and you shouldn't want to live up to it
[19:19] <dobey> hyperair: i don't need people berating me for doing the work i'm required to do
[19:19] <hyperair> dobey: i'm not berating you for doing the work you're required to do. i'm saying you shouldn't follow a bad example.
[19:19] <micahg> dobey: with the browsers, it's more about security than anything else that there's a major version exception
[19:20] <hyperair> dobey: if you really need an exception, go talk to TB about it, not look into bypassing the entire ubuntu team.
[19:20] <seb128> let's be realistic the archive model we have is lot of work and doesn't work often in practice
[19:20] <hyperair> i'll agree with that.
[19:20] <dobey> hyperair: no, you're just calling me and my team assholes for wanting to provide our users with the best possible experience, and being unable to with also trying to fit into the ubuntu freeze and release scheduling
[19:21] <seb128> the ubuntu archive should be the base systems and the applications, etc should be in ppa or similar under the control of the upstreams
[19:21] <seb128> where they can decide they cycles and what versions they want to push to who
[19:21] <hyperair> dobey: no, i'm saying mozilla is exhibiting asshole behaviour, and u1 shouldn't follow suit.
[19:21] <seb128> without having to be tieded to ubuntu archive freezes and rules
[19:21] <hyperair> dobey: please calm down.
[19:22] <dobey> i am calm. i was discussing a specific issue with mterry, and then everyone else had to jump in with "Why?!" about the installer.
[19:23] <hyperair> seb128: i think suse/fedora does that. but it results in a lot of stuff not being discoverable in the repository by default, and you need to go google for this and that and add $random_other_repository to get what you want.
[19:24] <micahg> dobey: BTW, I think landscape does major version updates in stable releases
[19:24] <dobey> the real problem is getting stuff to stable release users
[19:25] <seb128> dobey, yeah, sorry for starting a discussion with my question
[19:25] <dobey> and situations where we can't develop on lucid and have it work on oneiric, or develop on oneiric and have it work on lucid, without insanely complex things
[19:25] <seb128> the issue is that the rules are made to conserve a stable OS
[19:25] <dobey> especially recently with all the introspection/gtk3/etc insanity
[19:25] <seb128> but since we ship random applications in the archive we apply the same rules to the OS than to the random applications
[19:27] <dobey> and i don't think lucid even has gobject introsepction, or at least, doesn't have most of the bits we need, and it's all very old
[19:27] <dobey> and we can't go update gobject-inrospection/glib stuff, because it's a core part of the system :(
[19:28] <dobey> anyway
[19:29] <jbicha> dobey: what about only really supporting the most recent regular and LTS releases, that's just two tracks
[19:30] <jbicha> is that too complex for the U1 servers?
[19:30] <dobey> jbicha: the server isn't the problem, the clients are
[19:31] <dobey> jbicha: ubuntuone files sync in oneiric is like 120+x faster than it was in lucid
[19:31] <dobey> jbicha: but users can't get that improvement without new client
[19:32] <jbicha> I expect new releases to bring improvements, users can upgrade if they want that
[19:32] <dobey> but we've also made other integration changes with log-in, and such, since then, which have other dependencies, which don't necexsarily exist/work on lucid :(
[19:33] <jbicha> it still works on lucid though, just not as nice, right?
[19:33] <dobey> jbicha: that's a silly solution though, because users don't know if they want it or not
[19:33] <dobey> yeah it 'works'
[19:34] <dobey> a bicycle works to take you to the shop, too, but a ferrari is much nicer to ride in
[19:35] <jbicha> dobey: as long as it "works", I wouldn't worry about the lucid users too much
[19:37] <jbicha> as long as they don't hate Unity, they should like Prickly Porcupine next year
[19:37] <dobey> jbicha: yes, well LTS doesn't mean "we aren't going to support you any more"
[19:38] <jbicha> no, but LTS releases never get all the possible bugfixes, just the relatively simple ones that people care to backport
[20:05] <chrisccoulson> g'ah, my laptop is actually falling apart
[20:07] <chrisccoulson> really need to buy a new one without jo noticing
[20:09] <statik> I would like to report a bug on the alt-tab switcher, but I can't seem to take a screenshot while the switcher is showing. When I press alt+tab, I get the new looking switcher, and pressing shift makes the selection go backwards as expected. When I press alt+shift+tab first, I get an older-looking switcher. Pressing PrtSc key doesn't take a screenshot until after I release the alt key and the switcher disappears.
[20:10] <Sweetshark> jasoncwarner_: around?
[20:10] <statik> any suggestions on how to get a screenshot?
[20:10] <dobey> statik: gimp lets you take a screenshot with a delay
[20:10] <statik> dobey: thanks
[20:11] <dobey> statik: so take a screenshot with a 3-5 s delay, and then do what you want, and keep it open until gimp snaps it
[20:11] <statik> yep, perfect
[20:11] <dobey> you're welcome :)
[20:12] <statik> ah, shutter makes this very easy (i admit it, i'm scared of gimp)
[20:14] <Sweetshark> statik: dont be mean, he can be a nice guy ....
[20:14] <statik> heh
[20:19] <dobey> statik: heh, well, i've only used gimp, for taking screeenshots, for like the last 15 years. :)
[20:19] <dobey> well, maybe not that long
[20:19] <dobey> i don't remember what i used to take screenshots in the 8bpp pseudodisplay days
[20:20] <dobey> back when my Cirrus video card had an amazing 1MB of VRAM
[20:41]  * Sweetshark remembers taking gimp screenshots of a windows remote desktop running on a linux box X-forwarding its display though a Solaris Sun-Ray ...
[20:44] <mterry> dobey, to clarify, you're going to make ubuntuone-installer install ubuntuone-couch and the other deja-dup dependencies?
[20:44] <mterry> I'm working on having DD run ubuntuone-installer if the user tries to use it first
[20:52] <dobey> mterry: yes. though if they're missing, the bit in deja-dup just doesn't show up right?
[20:52] <mterry> dobey, yes, but I'm making it so that if ubuntuone-installer is present, U1 will still show up, and we'll just run ubuntuone-installer for the user when we need to log in
[20:54] <mterry> dobey, what would be sweet is if ubuntuone-installer could somehow prentend to be the credentials proxy and when a program asks to login, install then login as one atomic action (from dbus caller point of view)
[20:54] <dobey> great yes. also an unbelievable pain to maintain :)
[20:55] <dobey> mterry: btw, the installer doesn't get uninstalled after it installs everything
[20:56] <mterry> dobey, noted, that's fine
[21:02] <jcastro> Laney: hey, have you seen any reports of banshee just vanishing? Like, it still plays, etc. and can be interacted with from the sound indicator, but like the UI totally disappears
[21:04] <Laney> jcastro: err, no I have not. Is it happening to you?
[21:04] <Laney> hyperair: ^?
[21:04] <jcastro> yea
[21:05] <Laney> jcastro: does banshee --present work?
[21:05] <jcastro> nope, tried that
[21:05] <jcastro> it appears to have just crashed
[21:05] <Laney> creepy
[21:06] <jcastro> ok I'll keep a closer eye out next time
[23:04] <TheMuso> Ok seems Jason is not around...
[23:05] <bryceh> hi guys
[23:05] <bryceh> yeah he sent an email he wouldn't make the meeting today
[23:05] <TheMuso> Yeah I saw that.
[23:05] <bryceh> I believe RAOF is at a conference
[23:05] <TheMuso> I've been given chair responsibiliies.
[23:05] <TheMuso> Ok then.
[23:05] <TheMuso> STARTMEETING.
[23:05] <TheMuso> bryceh: So whats happening in X land?
[23:06] <bryceh> there is an xserver 1.10.4 in our git tree, ready to burst on the scene at any time
[23:06] <bryceh> it's almost entirely just modest bug fixes, so unlikely to cause much of a stir
[23:07] <TheMuso> Ok sounds good.
[23:07] <bryceh> I rolled out a new xdiagnose 1.2, which includes some improvements for failsafe-x
[23:08] <bryceh> still haven't confirmed a successful test with lightdm yet though
[23:08] <TheMuso> Ok.
[23:09] <TheMuso> Anything else to add, or should we move on?
[23:10] <bryceh> nothing much else; been mostly tending to random bug reports and working on a couple private projects
[23:11] <TheMuso> Ok sounds great, looks like X will be solid for oneiric.
[23:11] <TheMuso> robert_ancell: How does lightdm progress this week?
[23:11] <robert_ancell> need to make a release...
[23:12] <robert_ancell> There's hooks in the next release, which hopefully bryceh can use to help diagnose what is using all the CPU in the login screen
[23:12] <robert_ancell> Also, lightdm now quits if the display fails to start, so failsafe-x can work with it
[23:12] <robert_ancell> there's some minor UI changes in unity-greeter, which will require a ffe
[23:13] <bryceh> robert_ancell, and thanks for the tips on hooking up xtrace; going to experiment with that for helping us find what desktop apps are driving the X cpu loads so much during boot
[23:13] <TheMuso> Sweet.
[23:14] <robert_ancell> the work for that came from  Guido Berhoerster from open suse / xfce so thanks to him!
[23:14] <TheMuso> Ok sounds good.
[23:15] <TheMuso> So, pulseaudio 0.99.3 landed on Monday, which was a bugfix release. David Henningsen has also been working on some jack detection support stuff, which will make pulseaudio know more about the volume controls to use depending on what is plugged in where.
[23:15] <TheMuso> I'll be uploading the last bits of that after the meeting.
[23:16] <TheMuso> A11y wise, a bit of a nag has been hit, due to some GTK and GIR issues, see bug 769256.
[23:16] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 769256 in gtk+3.0 "Gdk enumerations do not contain GType info in GIR" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/769256
[23:16] <TheMuso> snag
[23:16] <TheMuso> I hope to see if I can nut out a work-around with either seb or pitti this afternoon.
[23:16] <TheMuso> at least till an upstrea fix is available.
[23:16] <TheMuso> *upstream
[23:17] <TheMuso> Unity-2d is now set as the default session for people who install using the screen reader or braille accessibility profiles.
[23:17] <TheMuso> And once the new lightdm lands, we will have accessible login again.
[23:18] <TheMuso> Thats about it from me.
[23:18] <TheMuso> Any other business?
[23:18] <bryceh> yeah, I'm curious how we're doing with the bootspeed work?
[23:18] <bryceh> did some issues get sorted out?
[23:19] <TheMuso> I know there has been some back and forth about it, but I'm not sure where that ended up.
[23:20] <bryceh> mm, ok, thanks.
[23:20] <TheMuso> bryceh: Were you CCed in the recent discussion?
[23:21] <bryceh> yeah, but haven't seen any further discussion today
[23:21] <TheMuso> Right, nore have I.
[23:22] <TheMuso> Ok if there is nothing else...
[23:23] <TheMuso> ENDMEETING.
[23:23] <TheMuso> thanks folks.