[08:56] <Andy80> is the meeting starting in minutes or I'm too late/early?
[08:59] <Andy80> omg... it was PM -.-
[08:59] <Andy80> damn method of using AM/PM!
[08:59] <Andy80> -.-
[15:59] <zul> hi
[16:00] <jamespage> o/
[16:00] <jamespage> he all
[16:00] <jamespage> or even hi all
[16:01] <RoAkSoAx> o/
[16:01] <RoAkSoAx> morning all
[16:01] <RoAkSoAx> so ready to get this started
[16:01] <SpamapS> don't forget to tell the bot what the name of the meeting is. :)
[16:01] <RoAkSoAx> ?
[16:02] <RoAkSoAx> i guess we are ready then
[16:02] <RoAkSoAx> #startmeeting
[16:02] <meetingology> Meeting started Tue Sep  6 16:02:16 2011 UTC.  The chair is RoAkSoAx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
[16:02] <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
[16:02] <RoAkSoAx> [topic] Review ACTION points from previous meeting
[16:03] <RoAkSoAx> alright there were no actions from the previous meeting apparently
[16:03] <RoAkSoAx> so unless anyone has something to brng up that has not been logged
[16:03] <RoAkSoAx> please do so
[16:03] <RoAkSoAx> Ok, I guess there's no action
[16:03] <RoAkSoAx> let's move on
[16:03] <RoAkSoAx> [topic] Oneiric Development
[16:04] <RoAkSoAx> Daviey: is in a meeting at the moment
[16:04] <RoAkSoAx> Daviey: so we can come back to this later
[16:04] <SpamapS> http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-oneiric/group/topic-oneiric-server-overview.html
[16:04] <RoAkSoAx> [link] http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-oneiric/group/topic-oneiric-server-overview.html
[16:04] <RoAkSoAx> anywas, he said
[16:05]  * Daviey pokes in.. Don't forget to progress bugs..  The 'Status' Step is starting to increase.
[16:05] <RoAkSoAx> he tol me* to remind you all to set the status of your current blueprints
[16:06] <Daviey> http://status.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-server/release-bugs.html <-- bugs not here, please raise them double quick if they should be fixed for Oneiric
[16:06] <RoAkSoAx> alright
[16:06]  * Daviey gets back to his call
[16:06] <Daviey> sorry for the fly by.
[16:06] <RoAkSoAx> alright then, let's move on
[16:06] <RoAkSoAx> [topic] Ubuntu Server Team Events
[16:07] <RoAkSoAx> any events that anyone is participating in?
[16:07] <zul> ODS next month
[16:08] <RoAkSoAx> I think Linux Plumbers  is tomorrow isn't it?
[16:08] <SpamapS> Yeah we'll have a ton of people at ODS
[16:08] <RoAkSoAx> alright then
[16:09] <RoAkSoAx> moving on
[16:09] <SpamapS> Yes Plumbers starts tomorrow, I think kirkland is there.
[16:09] <RoAkSoAx> [topic] Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
[16:09] <RoAkSoAx> hggdh: the floor is yours
[16:10] <hggdh> No news from me, life is goodf
[16:11] <hggdh> ..
[16:11] <RoAkSoAx> alright
[16:11] <RoAkSoAx> moving on
[16:11] <RoAkSoAx> [topic] Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
[16:11] <RoAkSoAx> smb all yours
[16:12] <RoAkSoAx> uhmm seems smb is not around
[16:12] <RoAkSoAx> we'll move on and get back to him
[16:13] <RoAkSoAx> [topic] Weekly Updates & Questions regarding Ubuntu ARM Server (NCommander)
[16:13] <RoAkSoAx> NCommander howdy, any updates on ARM side?
[16:14] <ogra_> RoAkSoAx, he is on vacation this week
[16:14] <RoAkSoAx> ogra_: I see, is there anyone from the ARM team with news?
[16:15] <ogra_> i havent gotten any info from NCommander, sorry
[16:15] <ogra_> and i dont think anyone else has
[16:15] <RoAkSoAx> alright then
[16:15] <RoAkSoAx> I'll move on
[16:15] <RoAkSoAx> [topic] Weekly Updates & Questions from the Ubuntu Community
[16:15] <RoAkSoAx> anyone from the Ubuntu Community has anything to share with us this week?
[16:16] <RoAkSoAx> ok so It seems noone is around either
[16:16] <RoAkSoAx> [topic] Open Discussion
[16:17] <RoAkSoAx> Anyone else has something to add?
[16:18] <RoAkSoAx> oh well I guess this was a short meeting then
[16:18] <RoAkSoAx> if noone has anything to add
[16:18] <RoAkSoAx> and smb is not back yet
[16:18] <RoAkSoAx> then we can end this
[16:18] <RoAkSoAx> [topic] Announce next meeting date and time
[16:18] <RoAkSoAx> same time/date
[16:18] <RoAkSoAx> thank you all for attending
[16:18] <RoAkSoAx> #endmeeting
[16:18] <meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Sep  6 16:18:53 2011 UTC.
[16:18] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-09-06-16.02.moin.txt
[16:19]  * kirkland waves at SpamapS from plumbers :-)
[16:20] <zul> geez i think that beat my record
[16:20] <RoAkSoAx> lol
[16:20]  * SpamapS waves back from 600 miles south.
[16:23] <chilicuil> hi there, not sure if this would fall in the topic, but last week launched the ugj and at least in my area it seemed a bit isolated, this was our first ugj and althought we got a fantastic time, I expected more Ubuntu juice, I mean, for example a central point to see what was going on, on others parts of the world, maybe some remote cameras =P or a main irc channel, anyway I just wanted to let it know
[16:31] <hggdh> chilicuil: the beast place to comment about the UGJ is the #ubuntu-community channel -- there you can be sure that the folks working on the UGJ will read it
[16:32] <chilicuil> hggdh: nice, I'll let them know, thanks!
[16:32] <hggdh> chilicuil: you are welcome
[16:59] <bjf> #startmeeting
[16:59] <meetingology> Meeting started Tue Sep  6 16:59:15 2011 UTC.  The chair is bjf. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
[16:59] <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
[16:59] <bjf> #startmeeting
[16:59] <meetingology> bjf: Error: Can't start another meeting, one is in progress.
[16:59] <bjf> #endmeeting
[16:59] <meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Sep  6 16:59:24 2011 UTC.
[16:59] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-09-06-16.59.moin.txt
[17:00] <bjf> #startmeeting
[17:00] <meetingology> Meeting started Tue Sep  6 17:00:17 2011 UTC.  The chair is bjf. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
[17:00] <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
[17:00] <bjf> ##
[17:00] <bjf> ## This is the Ubuntu Kernel Team weekly status meeting.
[17:00] <bjf> ##
[17:00] <bjf> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
[17:00] <bjf> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Oneiric
[17:00] <bjf> # Meeting Etiquette
[17:00] <bjf> #
[17:00] <bjf> # NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.
[17:00] <bjf> #       'o/' indicates you have something you'd like to add (wait until you are recognized)
[17:01] <bjf> #
[17:01] <bjf> [TOPIC] ARM Status (ppisati)
[17:02] <ppisati> a new omap4 kernel has been pushed out (with the i/o scheduler bug fixed)
[17:02] <tgardner> need to upload the meta package yet
[17:02] <ppisati> a  new round of new kernels for every arm flavour is on the way out
[17:02] <ppisati> ..
[17:02] <bjf> [TOPIC] Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (ogasawara)
[17:02] <ogasawara> [17:02] <ogasawara> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kt-meeting.txt
[17:02] <ogasawara> [17:02] <ogasawara>  * 37 linux kernel bugs (up 17)
[17:02] <ogasawara> [17:02] <ogasawara>  * 2 linux kernel bugs (up 2)
[17:03] <ogasawara> [17:03] <ogasawara>  * 0 oneiric linux kernel bugs (no change 0)
[17:03] <ogasawara>  * 15 natty linux kernel bugs (down 1)
[17:03] <ogasawara>  * 3 maverick linux kernel bugs (no change 0)
[17:03] <ogasawara>  * 7 lucid linux kernel bugs (no change 0)
[17:03] <ogasawara>  * 0 hardy linux kernel bugs (no change 0)
[17:03] <ogasawara> [17:03] <ogasawara>  * 172 oneiric bugs (up 22)
[17:03] <ogasawara>  * 1585 natty bugs (up 19)
[17:03] <ogasawara>  * 1084 maverick bugs (down 5)
[17:03] <ogasawara>  * 958 lucid bugs (down 1)
[17:03] <ogasawara>  * 32 hardy bugs (no change 0)
[17:03] <ogasawara> [17:03] <ogasawara> [17:03] <ogasawara>  * 0 oneiric bugs (no change 0)
[17:03] <ogasawara>  * 15 natty bugs (up 1)
[17:03] <ogasawara>  * 40 maverick bugs (no change 0)
[17:03] <ogasawara>  * 75 lucid bugs (down 1)
[17:03] <ogasawara>  * 0 hardy bugs (no change 0)
[17:03] <ogasawara> [17:03] <ogasawara>  * 6 oneiric bugs (no change 0)
[17:03] <ogasawara>  * 435 natty bugs (no change 0)
[17:03] <ogasawara>  * 238 maverick bugs (no change 0)
[17:03] <ogasawara>  * 213 lucid bugs (down 3)
[17:03] <ogasawara>  * 2 hardy bugs (no change 0)
[17:03] <ogasawara> [17:03] <ogasawara>  * 0 oneiric bugs (no change 0)
[17:03] <ogasawara>  * 3 natty bugs (no change 0)
[17:03] <ogasawara>  * 0 maverick bugs (no change 0)
[17:04] <ogasawara>  * 1 lucid bugs (no change 0)
[17:04] <ogasawara>  * 0 hardy bugs (no change 0)
[17:04] <ogasawara> ..
[17:04] <bjf> [TOPIC] Milstone Targeted Work Items
[17:04] <bjf> [LINK] http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-oneiric/milestones.html
[17:04] <ogasawara> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/canonical-kernel-team-ubuntu-11.10-beta-2.html
[17:04] <ogasawara> || apw       || other-kernel-o-bug-handling         || 2 work items||
[17:04] <ogasawara> ||           || other-kernel-o-version-and-flavours || 1 work item ||
[17:04] <ogasawara> ||           || other-kernel-o-ubuntu-delta-review  || 1 work item ||
[17:04] <ogasawara> ||           || desktop-o-xorg-stakeholders-request || 2 work items||
[17:04] <ogasawara> ||           || desktop-o-xorg-tools-and-processes  || 3 work items||
[17:04] <ogasawara> || jjohansen || other-kernel-o-config-review        || 1 work item ||
[17:04] <ogasawara> || ogasawara || other-kernel-o-config-review        || 2 work items||
[17:04] <ogasawara> ||           || other-kernel-o-version-and-flavours || 2 work items||
[17:04] <ogasawara> || ppisati   || other-kernel-o-ubuntu-delta-review  || 1 work item ||
[17:04] <ogasawara> || sarvatt   || desktop-o-xorg-tools-and-processes  || 1 work item ||
[17:04] <ogasawara> || smb       || other-kernel-o-server-requirements  || 1 work item ||
[17:04] <ogasawara> If your name is in the table above, please review your Beta 2 work items.
[17:04] <ogasawara> ..
[17:05] <bjf> [TOPIC] Status: General Oneiric (ogasawara)
[17:05] <ogasawara> Following the Beta-1 release last Thurs, we uploaded the 3.0.0-10.16 Ubuntu kernel on Fri.  I would like to remind everyone that Kernel Freeze is next week Thurs Sept 15.  After that, all patches are subject to our SRU policy in order to be applied.  I'm planning on 2 more uploads prior to kernel freeze, one at the end of this week, and one early next week.
[17:05] <ogasawara> Some important upcoming dates to keep in mind are as follows:
[17:05] <ogasawara>  * Sept 15 - Kernel Freeze (~1 week)
[17:05] <ogasawara>  * Sept 22 - Beta 2 (~2 weeks)
[17:05] <ogasawara>  * Oct 13 - Final Release (~5 weeks)
[17:05] <ogasawara> I'd also like to note that the P-series git repo was recently rebased to v3.1-rc5.  It's available at git://kernel.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ubuntu-p.git master-next .
[17:05] <ogasawara> ..
[17:06] <bjf> [TOPIC] Status: CVE's (apw)
[17:06] <apw> [17:06] <apw> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/cve/pkg/CVE-linux.txt
[17:06] <apw> Currently open CVEs for each supported branch:
[17:06] <apw> || Package                                  || Open ||
[17:06] <apw> ||                                          ||      ||
[17:06] <apw> || linux Hardy                              ||    9 ||
[17:06] <apw> || linux Lucid                              ||    6 ||
[17:06] <apw> || linux Maverick                           ||    6 ||
[17:06] <apw> || linux Natty                              ||    6 ||
[17:06] <apw> || linux Oneiric                            ||    5 ||
[17:06] <apw> || linux-ec2 Lucid                          ||    6 ||
[17:06] <apw> || linux-fsl-imx51 Lucid                    ||    6 ||
[17:06] <apw> || linux-mvl-dove Lucid                     ||    6 ||
[17:06] <apw> || linux-mvl-dove Maverick                  ||    6 ||
[17:06] <apw> || linux-ti-omap4 Maverick                  ||    6 ||
[17:06] <apw> || linux-ti-omap4 Natty                     ||    6 ||
[17:06] <apw> || linux-ti-omap4 Oneiric                   ||    5 ||
[17:06] <apw> || linux-lts-backport-maverick Lucid        ||    6 ||
[17:06] <apw> || linux-lts-backport-natty Lucid           ||    6 ||
[17:06] <apw> ..
[17:06] <bjf> [TOPIC] Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Natty/Maverick/Lucid/Hardy (herton)
[17:07] <herton> Status: Stable Kernel Team
[17:07] <herton> Lucid and Maverick were respun last week, with two unverified fixes
[17:07] <herton> reverted. They are now in testing phase.
[17:07] <herton> Hardy is released and waiting for next update cycle.
[17:07] <herton> Natty was prepared and a new version is on -proposed now. It's waiting
[17:07] <herton> on verification of SRU patches.
[17:07] <herton> In addition to that, we prepared and uploaded new updates for kernels in
[17:07] <herton> topic branches and backport packages (natty/linux-ti-omap4,
[17:07] <herton> linux-lts-backport-natty, linux-ec2, linux-fsl-imx51,
[17:07] <herton> linux-lts-backport-maverick, lucid/linux-mvl-dove,
[17:07] <herton> maverick/linux-ti-omap4)
[17:07] <herton> This is the general status on master kernels:
[17:07] <herton>  
[17:07] <herton> Hardy
[17:07] <herton>  
[17:07] <herton> Released
[17:07] <herton>  
[17:07] <herton> Lucid
[17:07] <herton>  
[17:08] <herton> * [[https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/836914|Lucid Tracking Bug]]
[17:08] <herton> * Lucid kernel is on testing phase right now: security-sigoff is
[17:08] <herton>   complete, QA and certification testing are in progress.
[17:08] <herton>  
[17:08] <herton> Maverick
[17:08] <herton>  
[17:08] <herton> * [[https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/837449|Maverick Tracking Bug]]
[17:08] <herton> * Maverick kernel is on testing phase right now: security-signoff is
[17:08] <herton> * complete, QA is waiting to be started, certification testing is in
[17:08] <herton>   progress.
[17:08] <herton>  
[17:08] <herton> Natty
[17:08] <herton>  
[17:08] <herton> * [[https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/836903|Natty Tracking Bug]]
[17:08] <herton> * Natty is on verification phase
[17:08] <herton>  
[17:09] <herton> Current Kernel versions are available here: http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/versions.html
[17:09] <herton> ..
[17:09] <bjf> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions: Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
[17:09] <bjf> thanks everyone
[17:09] <bjf> #endmeeting
[17:09] <meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Sep  6 17:09:25 2011 UTC.
[17:09] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-09-06-17.00.moin.txt
[17:09] <kamal> thanks bjf
[17:09] <cking> nice one
[17:09] <apw> bjf thanks
[17:09] <pgraner> thanks bjf
[19:56] <czajkowski> 3 mins to meeting
[19:57] <czajkowski> drubin: highvoltage popey ogra_ meeting in 2 mins
[19:59] <czajkowski> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/RegionalBoards/EMEA
[19:59] <ogra_> #startmeeting
[19:59] <meetingology> Meeting started Tue Sep  6 19:59:48 2011 UTC.  The chair is ogra_. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
[19:59] <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
[19:59] <ogra_> hey everyone
[20:00] <popey> o/
[20:00] <drubin> hey
[20:00] <Cheri703> hello
[20:00] <ogra_> do we have quorum ?
[20:00] <rafaellaguna> hello
[20:00] <andyrock> hi
[20:00] <czajkowski> aloha
[20:00]  * ogra_ counts four board members
[20:00] <drubin> and a highvoltage ?
[20:00] <czajkowski> 4/7 so yeah
[20:01]  * ogra_ hasnt seen a highvoltage in here yet ... 
[20:01] <ogra_> *poke*
[20:01] <highvoltage> boo
[20:01] <ogra_> :)
[20:01] <ogra_> great, lets start
[20:01] <czajkowski> stgraber: ping
[20:01]  * jono is here to support tonytiger
[20:01] <jono> will keep an eye for when he is up
[20:02] <ogra_> first up is andyrock
[20:02] <tonytiger> jono: :)
[20:02] <stgraber> czajkowski: giving an Ubuntu App Developer Week talk. I should be able to vote if you really need me to
[20:02] <ogra_> andyrock, like to introduce yourself ?
[20:02] <andyrock> Hi All
[20:02] <andyrock> My name is Andrea Azzarone
[20:02] <czajkowski> andyrock: aloha there
[20:02] <andyrock> I'm an italian student living in south of Italy
[20:03] <czajkowski> andyrock: impressive wiki page!
[20:03] <ogra_> yeah
[20:03] <popey> indeed
[20:03] <ogra_> very impressive list of tasks
[20:03] <ogra_> and great testimonials
[20:03] <andyrock> in the past year I contribute to Unity
[20:03] <popey> andyrock: what made you decide to work on unity?
[20:04] <andyrock> first as a bitesize hackers and then as an backlog one
[20:04] <andyrock> popey, well there are more reasons
[20:04] <andyrock> the first one: 1) unity is a new project and it's need help
[20:04] <highvoltage> I guess many community members would wish andyrock a +1 just for the panel icon resize thingy :)
[20:05] <drubin> heeh highvoltage
[20:05] <czajkowski> heh
[20:05] <andyrock> 2) unity leaks some useful configuration option
[20:06] <andyrock> such as icon size, device managent (currently i'm working to improve more and more it thank to JohnLea too)
[20:06] <czajkowski> andyrock: are you involved much in the italian loco ? they do some amazing work ?
[20:06] <jono> just my input, strong +1 for andyrock, he brought tremendous value to Ubuntu
[20:06] <andyrock> well i met some italian loco members at uds in Budapest
[20:07] <ogra_> any more questions for andyrock ?
[20:07] <andyrock> but I really prefer to write code and you know atm developer team works mainly  on packagess
[20:07] <highvoltage> not from me
[20:07] <andyrock> *packages
[20:07] <popey> i have no further questions
[20:07] <czajkowski> andyrock: ok so, but they are a great team and I'm sure you could help in some way
[20:08] <czajkowski> no further questions from me
[20:08] <ogra_> czajkowski, dont drag him away from fixing all these awful bugs :P :)
[20:08] <andyrock> czajkowski, i know...
[20:08] <czajkowski> just saying locos could benefit :)  we have UGJs :)
[20:09] <ogra_> k, lets vote :)
[20:09] <jono> I think andyrock should also focus on the bugs too :-)
[20:09] <jono> such awesome help
[20:09] <drubin> are we using the bot?
[20:09] <ogra_> oh, i forgot to set the topic, one sec
[20:09] <ogra_> #topic andyrock
[20:09] <ogra_> #vote
[20:09] <meetingology> Please vote on:
[20:09] <meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
[20:09] <highvoltage> +1 [ great upstream contributions to unity, compiz and bug fixing in Ubuntu, greate testimonials from well-known Ubuntu people ]
[20:09] <ogra_> +1
[20:09] <popey> +1
[20:09] <czajkowski> +1
[20:09] <popey> awesome work!
[20:09] <drubin> +1
[20:09] <highvoltage> andyrock: congratulations and welcome!
[20:09] <jono> congrats andyrock!
[20:10] <ogra_> #endvote
[20:10] <meetingology> No vote in progress
[20:10] <czajkowski> andyrock: well done
[20:10] <popey> you didnt give the vote a name
[20:10] <andyrock> Thx all :)
[20:10] <popey> so it didnt count them up
[20:10] <ogra_> oh
[20:10] <ogra_> heh
[20:10] <ogra_> well, in any case, welcome andyrock
[20:10] <popey> congratulations andyrock !
[20:10] <andyrock> thx again
[20:10] <Andy80> andyrock: congratulations :)
[20:10] <ogra_> hey tonytiger
[20:11] <popey> added to ~ubuntumembers
[20:11] <micahg> ogra_: possibly since you didn't give the vote a title
[20:11] <tonytiger> ogra_: hi
[20:11] <ogra_> micahg, yep
[20:11] <ogra_> #topic tonytiger
[20:11] <ogra_> tonytiger, stage is yours :)
[20:11] <tonytiger> ogra_: thanks :)
[20:11] <tonytiger> Hi, I'm Tony and this is my wiki page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/tonywhitmore
[20:11] <czajkowski> tonytiger: floor is yours :)
[20:11] <tonytiger> I've just added to it, so if you already had it open, please F5 :)
[20:12] <tonytiger> It seems a long time ago that we were stood in a tiny crowded booth in London, representing the still-relatively new Ubuntu http://gallery.tonywhitmore.co.uk/v/linuxexpo_oct_2006/img_0874.jpg.html
[20:12] <highvoltage> tonytiger: nice introduction on your wiki page :)
[20:12] <tonytiger> I've been involved in advocacy and general soft promotion for Ubuntu since then
[20:12]  * drubin is impressed
[20:12] <tonytiger> Although I am not a developer, (comedy bash scripts aside) I contribute in areas where I am skilled: Video, audio, photo.
[20:12] <czajkowski> that;s one scarey photo popey
[20:13]  * ogra_ guesses many of us that were at the UDSes remember you 
[20:13] <tonytiger> ogra_: I forced people into cupboards to talk into my video camera :)
[20:13] <highvoltage> comedy bash scripts? is that almost like package poetry?
[20:13] <ogra_> as the guy snaking around with his camera equipment, secretly kidnapping developers out of meeting rooms :)
[20:13] <jono> I just want to offer my support of tonytiger too
[20:13] <czajkowski> tonytiger: you do have a skill at getting people to talk.
[20:13] <tonytiger> Until the AV demands of UDS became too complex for just one man and one camera :)
[20:13] <jono> ogra_, lol
[20:13] <tonytiger> jono: thanks
[20:13] <jono> tonytiger, np
[20:14] <Pendulum> also here supporting tonytiger :)
[20:14]  * MooDoo three
[20:14]  * highvoltage has no questions
[20:14] <ogra_> any more questions ?
[20:14] <tonytiger> highvoltage: My most recent comedy bash script http://darcs.tonywhitmore.co.uk/cgi-bin/darcsweb.cgi?r=cartwall;a=summary
[20:14] <popey> ogra_: ya
[20:14] <czajkowski> it's safe to say tonytiger has a lot of support here today which is great to see
[20:14] <popey> tonytiger: in what way would you like to get more involved in the LoCo ?
[20:14] <popey> anything specific?
[20:15] <tonytiger> Well, mostly in-person meet-ups
[20:15] <tonytiger> I'm not that near to London, but if the Ubuntu UK Happy Hour comes my way...
[20:15] <popey> drinks are on you, of course, I understand
[20:16] <tonytiger> popey: that depends how the vote goes. ;)
[20:16] <tonytiger> But I'm always up for face-to-face meet ups or events
[20:16] <drubin> hey bribery will not be tollerated :)
[20:16]  * drubin is ready to vote
[20:16] <ogra_> post bribery is allowed
[20:16] <tonytiger> :)
[20:16]  * ogra_ is the chair today, i allow it :)
[20:16] <ogra_> lets vote then :)
[20:16]  * drubin sits on ogra_
[20:17] <ogra_> #vote on tonytiger
[20:17] <meetingology> Please vote on: on tonytiger
[20:17] <meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
[20:17] <highvoltage> +1 [ Great community participation, UDS interviews, really good testimonials from well-known Ubuntu community members ]
[20:17] <meetingology> +1 [ Great community participation, UDS interviews, really good testimonials from well-known Ubuntu community members ] received from highvoltage
[20:17] <ogra_> +1
[20:17] <meetingology> +1 received from ogra_
[20:17] <suprengr> +1
[20:17] <meetingology> +1 received from suprengr
[20:17] <czajkowski> +1
[20:17] <meetingology> +1 received from czajkowski
[20:17] <czajkowski> CAKE FOR ME
[20:17] <popey> grrrrr
[20:17] <drubin> +1 [great testimonials]
[20:17] <meetingology> +1 [great testimonials] received from drubin
[20:17] <popey> only loco people vote!
[20:17] <popey> +1
[20:17] <meetingology> +1 received from popey
[20:17] <flibblesan> +1
[20:17] <meetingology> +1 received from flibblesan
[20:17] <popey> grrrrrrr
[20:17] <czajkowski> flibblesan: suprengr please stop
[20:17] <ogra_> #endvote
[20:17] <meetingology> Voting ended on: on tonytiger
[20:17] <meetingology> Votes for:7 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
[20:17] <meetingology> Motion carried
[20:17] <highvoltage> popey: loco people?
[20:17] <drubin> only member can vote
[20:17] <popey> loco council
[20:17] <czajkowski> popey: EMEA council
[20:17] <flibblesan> sorry
[20:17] <czajkowski> loco is next week
[20:17] <popey> oh duh
[20:17]  * popey puts his wine down
[20:17] <ogra_> hehe
[20:17]  * czajkowski reminds popey where he is 
[20:18] <ogra_> nywy, welcome tonytiger
[20:18] <ogra_> !!
[20:18] <tonytiger> ogra_: thanks :)
[20:18] <MooDoo> yay tonytiger
[20:18] <highvoltage> tonytiger: congratulations and welcome!
[20:18] <tonytiger> And to naughty voters I appreciate the effort ;)
[20:18] <popey> heh, what a shambles :D
[20:18] <czajkowski> folks can you please just let the EMEA vote, we do appreciate the support but it just messes the vote up
[20:18] <suprengr> ;)
[20:18] <MooDoo> i liked how quick the vote went lol
[20:18] <Andy80> you should fix the bot and specify at the beginning of the session the list of people who can vote, for example: voters[name1,name2,name3,ecc....]
[20:18] <ogra_> oook ... everyone take a sip of coffee
[20:18] <ogra_> because ....
[20:19] <czajkowski> Andy80: it's a new bot
[20:19] <ogra_> this is the middle of the meeting !
[20:19] <highvoltage> MooDoo: a good application makes it easy to do fast :)
[20:19] <czajkowski> takes time to get used to the new commands
[20:19] <ogra_> <---- right here :)
[20:19] <popey> added tonywhitmore to ~ubuntumembers
[20:19] <flibblesan> I saw a tweet and assumed it was a public channel with a public vote. Sorry :(
[20:19] <ogra_> and Cheri703 is up next :)
[20:19] <popey> np flibblesan
[20:19] <ogra_> #topic Cheri703
[20:19] <Cheri703> Hi! I am Cheri, I'm from Ohio
[20:19]  * ogra_ hands the mic to Cheri703 
[20:19] <highvoltage> Ohio!
[20:19] <Cheri703> Fair warning, I am mobile and tethered, so I have a bit of lag
[20:19] <czajkowski> ok again only highvoltage stgraber popey ogra_ dubin and myself are to vote
[20:20] <Cheri703> Pendulum is going to paste my wiki page for me I believe
[20:20] <Pendulum> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Cheri703
[20:20] <highvoltage> Cheri703: what's your biggest goal or wish for the Ubuntu Women project?
[20:20] <Cheri703> I am active in my LoCo, a member of our 3 person council, and founder of my area's ReLoCo
[20:21] <Cheri703> Well, I am hoping that I can help increase some of the visibility (so many people seem to think we are a separatist group or something) as well as doing LoCo outreach
[20:21] <Cheri703> working with LoCos to be more women friendly
[20:21] <Cheri703> (well, EVERYONE friendly, but including women)
[20:21] <highvoltage> great
[20:22] <czajkowski> Cheri703: nice to hear
[20:22] <jono> good work Cheri703
[20:22] <Pici> woo
[20:22] <popey> great testimonials
[20:22] <ogra_> yeah
[20:23] <ogra_> any more questions ?
[20:23] <Pendulum> in case anyone couldn't tell, I'm here in support of Cheri703 :)
[20:23] <popey> yes
[20:23] <Cheri703> :)
[20:23] <maco> ditto
[20:23] <highvoltage> ogra_: I'm good thanks
[20:23] <popey> Cheri703: how do you plan to raise awareness of the projects you're working on?
[20:23] <czajkowski> Cheri703: how do you think the ubuntu community can do better to encourage more women to take part ?
[20:23] <charlie-tca> I am also in support of Cheri703
[20:23]  * highvoltage is supporting Cheri703 too, met her at UDS and as a newcommer to Ubuntu she wasn't afraid to just jump in and get involved
[20:24] <Cheri703> popey: when interacting/discussing projects with people, I try to mention how they can tie into other projects, and how certain aspects of the community or even development can benefit the others
[20:24] <Cheri703> (i.e. x can benefit accessibility too! or y is part of what can help with making things more inclusive)
[20:24] <Cheri703> that was to popey
[20:25] <popey> cross-pollenation ☺
[20:25] <Cheri703> czajkowski: I think that a lot of it is cultural
[20:25] <Cheri703> there are a lot of things that seem ingrained in "this is how it's always been done"
[20:25] <charlie-tca> Cheri703 is very ambitious with a lot of needed enthusiasm and energy
[20:26] <Cheri703> and that  it can help to open people up to the idea of slight tweaks that will make it easier/more open to others
[20:26] <czajkowski> Cheri703: that is true
[20:26] <czajkowski> I've no more questions
[20:27] <popey> ditto
[20:27] <Cheri703> it doesn't have to be MASSIVE change, just little adjustments :)
[20:27] <ogra_> awesome, so shall we vote ?
[20:27]  * highvoltage thinks it's just natural that there will be "guarded monkeys" in community projects where there is a big flow of people
[20:27] <ogra_> any ONLY BOARD MEMBERS VOTE !!!
[20:27] <czajkowski> hehe
[20:27] <highvoltage> (but it is something that people should be aware of)
[20:27] <ogra_> #vote on Cheri703
[20:27] <meetingology> Please vote on: on Cheri703
[20:27] <meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
[20:27] <czajkowski> ogra_: now you know how I feel each month :)
[20:27] <highvoltage> +1 [ Great Ubuntu community participation and outreach and excellent feedback from well-known Ubuntu members ]
[20:27] <meetingology> +1 [ Great Ubuntu community participation and outreach and excellent feedback from well-known Ubuntu members ] received from highvoltage
[20:27] <ogra_> +1
[20:27] <meetingology> +1 received from ogra_
[20:27] <drubin> +1
[20:27] <meetingology> +1 received from drubin
[20:28] <czajkowski> +1 great wiki and well done
[20:28] <meetingology> +1 great wiki and well done received from czajkowski
[20:28] <popey> +!
[20:28] <ogra_> heh
[20:28] <popey> bah
[20:28] <popey> +1
[20:28] <meetingology> +1 received from popey
[20:28]  * czajkowski hands popey a large cup of coffee
[20:28] <maco> highvoltage: guarded monkeys?
[20:28] <highvoltage> Cheri703: congratulations and welcome :)
[20:28] <Pendulum> popey: still not off holiday brain?
[20:28] <Cheri703> thanks!
[20:28] <charlie-tca> Congratulations, Cheri703. You earned it.
[20:28] <ogra_> #endvote
[20:28] <meetingology> Voting ended on: on Cheri703
[20:28] <meetingology> Votes for:5 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
[20:28] <meetingology> Motion carried
[20:28]  * nigelb hands popey and unshift key
[20:28] <pleia2> congrats Cheri703 :) much deserved
[20:28] <Cheri703> :D
[20:28] <nigelb> congrats Cheri703!
[20:28] <Pendulum> Cheri703: congrats!
[20:28] <ogra_> congrats Cheri703
[20:29] <czajkowski> Cheri703: wel done and welcome
[20:29] <highvoltage> maco: oops, gorillas, even. See: http://blog.dustinkirkland.com/2010/11/guarded-gorilla.html
[20:29] <Cheri703> thanks!
[20:29] <ogra_> now on to the most beautiful designed wikipage today :)
[20:29] <nigelb> 41
[20:29] <nigelb> gah
[20:29] <ogra_> rafaellaguna, you're next :)
[20:29] <ogra_> #topic rafaellaguna
[20:29]  * popey adds cheri703 to ~ubuntumembers
[20:30] <rafaellaguna> ogra: he he
[20:30] <ogra_> rafaellaguna, mind to introduce yourself ?
[20:31] <rafaellaguna> Ok. My name's Rafael Laguna, from Spain. I'm a designer and live in Valencia (east coast)
[20:31] <highvoltage> rafaellaguna: your wiki page mentions upstream art contributions to LibreOffice, KDEnlive and the Gimp. Do you have examples of your contributions there?
[20:32] <rafaellaguna> Those programs were used to explain how Ubuntu works in some schools
[20:32] <popey> rafaellaguna: of the themes you've created for Lubuntu, do any of them ship on the CD?
[20:33] <head_victim> popey: he's created several of the default ones
[20:33] <rafaellaguna> The intention was showing that not everything is pay software, that there're alternatives in price and, more important, with community support
[20:33]  * head_victim is here to cheer
[20:34] <highvoltage> rafaellaguna: what do you give schools when they wand a disc? Lubuntu or Edubuntu? :)
[20:34] <rafaellaguna> popey: they are all included (until Oneiric, finishing) in the ISOs, as the community voted it
[20:34] <popey> rafaellaguna: excellent work!
[20:34] <rafaellaguna> highvoltage: Ubuntu was the choice
[20:34] <ogra_> rafaellaguna is the make up artist of lubuntu :)
[20:35] <rafaellaguna> And I must say they adapted so well to that "serious" interface
[20:35] <highvoltage> heh
[20:35] <rafaellaguna> ogra_: :)
[20:36] <ogra_> any more questions to rafaellaguna ?
[20:36] <highvoltage> Not from me.
[20:36] <ogra_> nobody else speaks up, so lets vote
[20:36] <ogra_> #vote on rafaellaguna
[20:36] <meetingology> Please vote on: on rafaellaguna
[20:36] <meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
[20:36] <highvoltage> +1 [ Great artwork contributionsin Lubuntu, advocacy in schools and great testimonials from Lubuntu contributors ]
[20:36] <meetingology> +1 [ Great artwork contributionsin Lubuntu, advocacy in schools and great testimonials from Lubuntu contributors ] received from highvoltage
[20:37] <drubin> +1 [Sustained work and good testimonials ]
[20:37] <meetingology> +1 [Sustained work and good testimonials ] received from drubin
[20:37] <popey> +1
[20:37] <meetingology> +1 received from popey
[20:37] <ogra_> +1 driving artwork for a distro alone is nearly a fulltime job
[20:37] <meetingology> +1 driving artwork for a distro alone is nearly a fulltime job received from ogra_
[20:37] <ogra_> czajkowski, *poke*
[20:37] <czajkowski> +1
[20:37] <meetingology> +1 received from czajkowski
[20:37] <ogra_> #ednvote
[20:37] <czajkowski> blame compiz!!!!
[20:38] <ogra_> #endvote
[20:38] <meetingology> Voting ended on: on rafaellaguna
[20:38] <meetingology> Votes for:5 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
[20:38] <meetingology> Motion carried
[20:38] <highvoltage> rafaellaguna: congratulations and welcome!
[20:38] <ogra_> congrats rafaellaguna !!
[20:38] <highvoltage> rafaellaguna: this is the second time you have applied right?
[20:38] <Unit193> rafaellaguna: Well done! Glad you made it!
[20:38]  * ogra_ points czajkowski to andyrock 
[20:38] <head_victim> rafaellaguna: Well done
[20:38] <rafaellaguna> highvoltage: yep, 2nd one :)
[20:38] <czajkowski> heh
[20:38] <rafaellaguna> Unit193: thanks
[20:38] <popey> rafaellaguna: added to ~ubuntumembers
[20:38] <highvoltage> rafaellaguna: great, glad that you applied again!
[20:39] <drubin> Congrats!
[20:39] <rafaellaguna> thank you all
[20:39] <drubin> and yes glad you applied :)
[20:39] <rafaellaguna> i'm happy :)
[20:39] <ogra_> sooo, seems that was it for today ...
[20:39] <drubin> wow that is a record!
[20:40] <drubin> thanks ogra_ for chairing!
[20:40] <highvoltage> thanks everyone
[20:40] <ogra_> thanks everyone for attending !
[20:40] <popey> nice one ogra_
[20:40] <tonytiger> Thanks everyone!
[20:40] <ogra_> and thanks for cheering everyone
[20:40] <highvoltage> and to ogra_ for chairing, I never thought I'd see that :p
[20:40] <ogra_> heh
[20:40] <ogra_> #endmeeting
[20:40] <meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Sep  6 20:40:51 2011 UTC.
[20:40] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-09-06-19.59.moin.txt
[20:40] <ogra_> et voila :)
[20:41] <highvoltage> RIP mootbot.
[20:41] <drubin> wow that sumerary is awesome
[20:42] <andyrock> my vote is not prenset :)
[20:42] <andyrock> in the Vote section
[20:42] <popey> blame ogra
[20:42] <ogra_> yeah, i messed that up, sorry for that
[20:42] <popey> :D
[20:42] <highvoltage> andyrock: it's ok, it's recorded anyway
[20:43] <andyrock> np
[20:43] <andyrock> thx anyway
[20:43] <ogra_> popey, thanks for driving LP
[20:45] <popey> np
[20:57] <jono> hey dholbach
[20:57] <jono> meeting in 3m
[20:57] <dholbach> yep
[20:58] <dholbach> pleia2, technoviking, popey, persia: all set?
[20:59]  * pleia2 waves
[21:00] <dholbach> jono, did you link to your .pdf already?
[21:00] <jono> http://ubuntuone.com/7JTEZG0YScFj9mliRJPcCI
[21:00] <jono> :-)
[21:00] <dholbach> great
[21:00] <pleia2> #startmeeting
[21:00] <meetingology> Meeting started Tue Sep  6 21:00:33 2011 UTC.  The chair is pleia2. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
[21:00] <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
[21:00] <pleia2> [LINK] http://ubuntuone.com/7JTEZG0YScFj9mliRJPcCI
[21:00] <pleia2> oh
[21:00] <pleia2> #link http://ubuntuone.com/7JTEZG0YScFj9mliRJPcCI
[21:00] <pleia2> I don't know how this new bot works :)
[21:01] <jono> :-)
[21:01] <jono> so do we want to review the findings in the doc?
[21:01] <pleia2> sounds good, I read through it earlier
[21:01] <jono> cool
[21:01]  * dholbach too
[21:01] <jono> I summarized the key themes on the last page
[21:01] <pleia2> #topic Membership Survey
[21:01] <jono> I think these are interesting areas of focus and discussion
[21:01] <pleia2> this is the Community Council meeting btw :)
[21:02] <pleia2> jono: thanks so much for working on this, it was a very good report
[21:02] <jono> yup
[21:02] <jono> thanks pleia2
[21:02] <jono> I think it is interesting to see the feedback
[21:02] <jono> I am pleased that generally the feedback was very positive about the membership process
[21:02] <mako> ciao
[21:02] <jono> hey mako
[21:02] <jono> mako, we are looking at the membership survey report
[21:02] <jono> http://ubuntuone.com/7JTEZG0YScFj9mliRJPcCI
[21:03] <jono> the key resonating piece of confusion seemed to be about expectations about what constitutes membership
[21:03] <jono> I was wondering if we could look at the areas of participation in the survey and provides examples for the most popular areas
[21:04] <pleia2> page 5?
[21:04] <jono> pleia2, exactly
[21:04] <pleia2> jono: and did this go to developer membership board folks too, or just from the regional boards?
[21:04] <jono> maybe https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership could provide subpages with examples of such contributions
[21:04] <jono> pleia2, I blogged it
[21:05] <jono> ohj sorry
[21:05] <jono> I see what you mean
[21:05] <dholbach> in addition to that I think it might be interesting to review together with RMBs/DMB the cases that didn't seem to fit in and see where we can be clearer or amend expectations
[21:05] <jono> pleia2, I asked Jorge to provide a list of all names that have been through the membership process, I think it was mainly regional boards
[21:05] <jono> dholbach, agreed
[21:06] <jono> it seems though the expectations issue likely is where is particularly applies to DMB applications
[21:06] <highvoltage> jono: I read it this morning, it was nice to see the possitive feedback!
[21:06] <jono> e.g. upstream contributions
[21:06] <jono> highvoltage, :-)
[21:06] <jono> maybe we could ask the various membership boards to flesh out examples of what is considered good work in each of those areas
[21:06] <jono> e.g. locos, translations, docs, packaging, upstream contributions etc
[21:06] <pleia2> I also noticed that some people felt technical things weren't valued as highly as community, and I think that is because in some cases people went to the wrong board (regional when they're doing packaging work, for instance)
[21:06] <pleia2> and there was general confusion about which board to go to
[21:07] <jono> pleia2, right
[21:07]  * micahg wonders why people aren't warned about this before the meeting in question
[21:07] <jono> micahg, warned about what?
[21:07] <micahg> applying for the wrong board
[21:08] <dholbach> I think I recall a similar discussion some months ago - if I remember correctly the outcome was something like "all membership boards should be able to make a good decision or ask other people for advice"
[21:08] <jono> ahhh I see
[21:08] <pleia2> micahg: it's very common for wiki pages to be incomplete so the board depends upon the meeting conversation to get more details about where their involvement is, short answer: we don't know before the meeting
[21:08] <micahg> pleia2: ah, ok
[21:09] <highvoltage> indeed, RMB can do technical applicants as well. packaging-only contributors are a bit special though and it would probably be more fair to them to apply via the DMB.
[21:09] <dholbach> what we should stress in the documentation in any case is to explain the relevance of your work for Ubuntu
[21:09] <jono> so would you folks be happy to participate in us listing common areas of work (e.g. locos, docs, translations) and for each area list examples of what is considered good work
[21:09] <jono> I think this could help better communicate what is considered good work
[21:10] <pleia2> sounds good, should probably put these examples on a separate wiki page though, /Membership is getting a bit long :)
[21:11] <pleia2> (it's also worth noting that we've improved /Membership *a lot* in the past two years to address some of the concerns raised in the survey)
[21:11] <jono> agreed
[21:11] <jono> awesome
[21:11] <dholbach> that would help in many cases, I guess - I'm wondering how prone this approach would be to leaving out other kinds of activity
[21:11]  * micahg would also suggest making it clear these are examples and not checklists
[21:11] <pleia2> micahg: agreed
[21:11] <highvoltage> and the issue of upstream contributions have also been cleared up heavily since the survey
[21:11] <jono> ok, I will take an action to set up the pages and then mail the RMBs for input
[21:11] <jono> maybe then the CC can review this content?
[21:12] <dholbach> sure, I'm happy to help with that
[21:12] <pleia2> jono: sounds good
[21:12] <jono> how do I register an action again?
[21:12] <jono> I am so useless with bots
[21:12] <jono> lol
[21:12] <pleia2> #action jono to set up the pages and then mail the RMBs for input
[21:12] <meetingology> ACTION: jono to set up the pages and then mail the RMBs for input
[21:12] <DarkwingDuck> I think if we take the areas that each regional board looks at and lists those, then we wont be leaving anything out... Or, it will limit it.
[21:12] <popey> sorry I'm late
[21:12] <jono> awesome
[21:12] <dholbach> hey popey
[21:12] <jono> popey, fired
[21:12] <jono> lol
[21:12] <popey> wooot
[21:13] <mako> so, there's one very clear way we can address issues of expectations before meetings
[21:13] <jono> mako, oh?
[21:13] <mako> which is to actively encourage members leaving testimonials to give concrete feedback on the completeness of an applicdation
[21:13] <mako> presumably, every person who has been through this process has some idea of what is expected
[21:14] <mako> and they are all actually looking at the page in question
[21:14] <mako> we can change the documentation to suggest that member candidates ask people they ask for testimonials for advice in the process
[21:15] <dholbach> good thinking
[21:15] <jono> that makes sense
[21:15] <mako> or to even require that testimonials only be left on applications that members feel are complete enough to have a chance of passing! (although that might be heavy handed)
[21:15] <mako> there are a few ways that we can rephrase core parts of the process documents to encourage more feedback from the members who are already involved in the process before even the very incomplete applicdations make it to the meetings
[21:16] <jono> I think this makes great sense
[21:16] <jono> popey, pleia2 thoughts?
[21:16] <mako> i've also tended to think of large majority of rejections/come-back-laters as failures in documentation or communication on our part
[21:16] <popey> I have nothing to add
[21:16] <pleia2> I think it would be tricky to make this happen, people are busy and writing a testimonial at all takes time without also committing to doing a review of the application
[21:16] <pleia2> we can certainly encourage it though
[21:16] <popey> however I do think the whole membership thing is opaque to many
[21:17] <pleia2> (I offer suggestions on apps pretty frequently)
[21:17] <jono> so maybe we should add it to the docs as a form of encouragement
[21:17] <jono> popey, really?
[21:17] <popey> I announced on G+ that Tony was now a member and one reply was "what did he use before?"
[21:17] <popey> but thats from people outside the community
[21:17] <jono> popey, that is understandable outside of Ubuntu
[21:17] <popey> not understanding what membership means to people in the community
[21:18] <popey> I still think there's room for a 30 second elevator pitch at the top of the membership page as to what membership actually means
[21:18] <popey> !membership
[21:18] <jono> mako could you add that clarification to the docs to encourage reviewing apps from testimonials
[21:18] <popey> tl;dr
[21:18] <jono> popey, makes sense
[21:18] <popey> but thats a minor point :D
[21:19] <mako> i think that the fact that 17% of the people who end up being members either apply with incomplete information or two early is a concrete number we work to reduce
[21:19] <jono> popey,  could you write that and add it to the page
[21:19] <popey> i could try
[21:19] <jono> popey, cool
[21:19] <mako> i think we if we improve the relevant documentations, we can cut this is half
[21:19] <popey> action me!
[21:19] <mako> jono: sure, i'm happy to help with that :)
[21:19] <jono> thanks mako
[21:20] <pleia2> #action mako to add clarification to docs to encourage reviewing apps from testimonials
[21:20] <meetingology> ACTION: mako to add clarification to docs to encourage reviewing apps from testimonials
[21:20] <jono> #action popey add elevator pitch to Membership page summarizing the purpose and function of membership
[21:20] <meetingology> ACTION: popey add elevator pitch to Membership page summarizing the purpose and function of membership
[21:20] <pleia2> it's also worth noting that the membership boards have a mailing list that people can email to ask us about membership if they have any questions
[21:21] <pleia2> I think people don't know about it, or they're shy to ask, or don't know they can ask
[21:21] <jono> indeed
[21:21] <jono> is that clear to people who apply?
[21:21] <dholbach> if that's not in the docs, we should add it, or maybe make it more prominent :)
[21:21] <jono> would you be happy to do that dholbach?
[21:22] <pleia2> the bottom of each regional page has "If you have questions or wish to give private testimonials email ubuntu-membership-boards@lists.ubuntu.com (your message may initially be held for moderation)"
[21:22] <jono> ensure the list is seen as a prominent for of support?
[21:22] <jono> in the docs
[21:22] <dholbach> pleia2, that should be good enough :)
[21:22] <jono> oh cool
[21:22] <pleia2> but it's not on /Membership and doesn't exactly scream "we can help you out!"
[21:22] <dholbach> ok
[21:22] <dholbach> I'll take care of it
[21:22] <jono> thanks dholbach
[21:22] <jono> #action dholbach raise awareness of the list as a place for support
[21:22] <meetingology> ACTION: dholbach raise awareness of the list as a place for support
[21:23] <jono> so I would like to discuss the meetings feedback
[21:23] <jono> there were two primary areas of concern here - the timliness of getting to applications and quorum
[21:23] <jono> maybe lets look at timeliness first
[21:23] <jono> is there a limit on how apps happen in each meeting?
[21:24] <popey> not for EMEA
[21:24] <pleia2> EMEA and Americas do fine with quorum, and the CC just added 3 additoinal members to Asia Pacific so hopefully that won't be an issue moving forward (I'm working with APAC on this as I can)
[21:24] <jono> pleia2, awesome
[21:24] <popey> I dont see a breakdown on which board has timeliness issues?
[21:24] <pleia2> not for Americas either, we don't have a problem getting through our list
[21:24] <jono> popey, it was general feedback
[21:24] <jono> no specific board was highlighted
[21:24] <dholbach> how do you feel about having meetings regardless of quorum or not and chasing up additional votes by email afterwards?
[21:24] <jono> dholbach, +1
[21:25] <pleia2> dholbach: yeah, I think we need to take that into consideration
[21:25] <popey> its rarely been an issue for EMEA
[21:25] <jono> I think the idea of folks showing up for approval and meeting doesn't go ahead because of quorum is not good
[21:25] <highvoltage> jono: now and again EMEA runs a bit late, which usually steps into CC meeting space, but so far CC has never complained about it and when it has run late it hasn't been by more than 15 minutes or so
[21:25] <popey> but I'd be happy to do that
[21:25] <popey> but the problem with it is it puts people on hold
[21:25] <pleia2> the trouble with Asia Pacific is that it's such a huge area (almost half the world!)
[21:25] <pleia2> so getting quorum at a specific time is tricky
[21:25] <dholbach> popey, meetings without quorum put them on hold as well :-P
[21:25] <jono> popey, it does, but canceling meetings because of lack of quorum puts an application in limbo
[21:25] <popey> turning up to meetings people have an expectation set that they'll find out immediately
[21:25] <popey> i disagree
[21:26] <jono> at least if we move to mail the application can continue
[21:26] <popey> lack of quorum and no meeting are similar state, the person didnt get to have their say
[21:26] <jono> popey, I disagree:
[21:26] <popey> but to have the meeting and then say "you'll have to wait for your answer" is different
[21:26] <jono> if a person shows up and no quorum - there is no meeting and nothing happens
[21:26] <dholbach> I personally would welcome a "let's talk about it now and we'll get back to you with a decision" as I had a chance to reply to questions as opposed to being told "come back in two weeks"
[21:26] <pleia2> dholbach: +1
[21:27] <dholbach> but maybe that's just me
[21:27] <dholbach> ...and pleia2
[21:27] <jono> if we change it where there is no quorum and the present members vote and the remaining votes are offered over email, the applicant can be informed that the app is still being processed
[21:27] <jono> dholbach, +1
[21:27] <popey> which was my point, it puts people on hod
[21:27] <pleia2> people sometimes bring along their peers on ubuntu projects to cheer for them, it's very discouraging when you bring people along and no meeting happens, at least they could introduce themselves and get their cheers in
[21:27] <popey> *hold
[21:27] <Laney> FYI we did that with the last DMB meeting and it was a right pain to chase people to vote
[21:28] <jono> popey, but they are not on hold, it is just continuing as opposed to them showing up to a meeting for it to be  a waste of time
[21:28] <popey> at least via email the people who complete the quourm can see the log of people turning up and cheering I suppose
[21:28] <jono> Laney, interesting
[21:28] <popey> we're splitting hairs
[21:28] <micahg> well, given that pleia2 said some applicants don't have complete applications, it's hard to know in advance what questions need to be asked even if one can't be present, perhaps a requirement that an application must be complete to be processed w/out quorum (as a followup)
[21:28] <Laney> which is why we moved away from email stuff in the first place
[21:28] <jono> ok so the other option is that we always strive maintain quoum
[21:28] <stgraber> Laney: +1 (and thanks again for handling it ;))
[21:29] <jono> additional board members could solve that
[21:29] <popey> we dont exactly have people falling out of the sky to be on boards
[21:29] <jono> popey, do you have another idea in which we can secure a quorum?
[21:29] <pleia2> asia pacific hasn't had a meeting since we added the new members, and they were the only board really having problems
[21:29] <popey> yes, get people from other boards
[21:29] <pleia2> I think we should see how things go with their new members and take it from there
[21:29] <popey> I have suggested this previously, and it does work
[21:29] <Laney> I still think going ahead was the right decision though
[21:29] <jono> popey, which boards?
[21:30] <Laney> better then leaving people hanging after they've turned up
[21:30] <jono> other membership boards?
[21:30] <popey> yes
[21:30] <jono> makes sense
[21:30] <popey> I have stood in for members of US and Asia boards on more than one occasion
[21:30] <popey> because I happened to be online and saw in -meeting that there was no quoum
[21:30] <jono> popey, that makes sense
[21:30] <popey> and subsequently (months later) people from those boards rememebr that and ping me directly
[21:30] <popey> this is why we post reminders to the membership boards list
[21:30] <pleia2> the CC has pretty much said this was ok
[21:30] <popey> its why we have only one list
[21:31] <popey> so we can say "Hey, emea meeting tomorrow" and when someone says "can't make it, we wont be quorum" we can have an opportunity (albeit at short notice) to get someone to stand in
[21:31] <jono> popey, do you feel all boards are aware that this is what they should do if there is no quorum?
[21:32] <popey> I think they're aware that its possible
[21:32] <popey> i dont think they believe it's policy
[21:32] <popey> because it isnt really
[21:32] <popey> its members of a board doing a favour for members of another board
[21:32] <pleia2> and the CC has said it's ok
[21:32] <popey> informally, and on best-endeavour basis
[21:32] <jono> maybe we can formalize this as a policy
[21:33] <jono> should it only apply to RMBs or any governor who is equipped to approve membership
[21:33] <jono> so if there is DMB member for example they could step in
[21:33] <popey> tricky
[21:33] <pleia2> it really should not be something that's used regularly
[21:33] <jono> pleia2, agreed
[21:33] <pleia2> if a board regularly has trouble getting quorum we need to address that directly (like we just have with APAC)
[21:33] <jono> pleia2, agree
[21:33] <popey> exactly
[21:34] <jono> so maybe we should formalize as a policy and communicate to all RMBs that this used if quorum cannot be made, but should be used only when absolutely required
[21:34] <pleia2> I think we'll be ok once we get asia pacific back on track, they are the board that really has struggled the most with this
[21:34] <popey> but (for example) I would have no problem asking someone like jussi or laney from irc or dmb to step in if they could.
[21:34] <popey> it's not like we're asking a welder to do brain surgery, I'm pretty sure we're all on roughly the same page when it comes to what's expected of a member?
[21:34] <popey> however!
[21:34] <jono> agreed
[21:34] <popey> I don't think it works the other way round
[21:35] <jono> yes
[21:35] <popey> I wouldn't want to stand in on the DMB
[21:35] <jono> this is a one way thing
[21:35] <pleia2> yeah, I can't judge irc membership
[21:35] <micahg> popey: +1
[21:35] <Laney> I can't techincally add people to ~ubuntumembers though
[21:35] <popey> others can tho
[21:35] <jono> ok, popey would you be happy to mail all the RMBs to ensure they are aware of this workflow if quorum is not met?
[21:35] <popey> we're not asking the entire dmb to step in :D
[21:35] <Laney> just saying that launchpad doesn't think I have this authority
[21:35] <pleia2> yeah, presumably the *whole* board wouldn't be MIA for a meeting :)
[21:35] <popey> I hear Fedora have some Ambassadors, we could get them to stand in!
[21:36] <popey> yes jono
[21:36] <jono> thanks popey
[21:36] <popey> action me up
[21:36] <jono>  #action popey mail RMBs about lack of quorum workflow
[21:36] <jono> #action popey mail RMBs about lack of quorum workflow
[21:36] <meetingology> ACTION: popey mail RMBs about lack of quorum workflow
[21:36] <head_victim> As one of the new members of AsiaOceania I'd just like to throw a quick comment that I am finding it difficult to find any documentation on policy. I know we're here to decide on membership applications but the details of how we achieve that all seem to be word of mouth and just assumed.
[21:36] <Laney> like, if you want that to be possible then make dmb and irc and whatever a member of the team that makes you an admin of ubuntnumembers
[21:36] <Laney> then the delegation is clear
[21:36] <jono> head_victim, good point
[21:37] <head_victim> Sorry to interrupt, just wanted to give a newbies view
[21:37] <pleia2> head_victim: please do
[21:37] <jono> we don't have a "how to review membership" wiki page, right?
[21:37] <pleia2> oh, you said your thing :) thanks
[21:37] <popey> not that I know of
[21:37] <head_victim> I asked the mailing list as well and got no response either.
[21:37] <jono> I think such a page could be useful
[21:38] <jono> would someone like to volunteer to put it together?
[21:38] <head_victim> Very, especially if us 3 new members all turn up and we're the only ones there.
[21:38] <pleia2> head_victim: apologies, I was meaning to reply to that, I have a whole email I send to new americas members
[21:38] <pleia2> jono: I have one pretty much written, I'll formalize it
[21:38] <head_victim> pleia2: tis ok, I just happened to see this meeting pop up after my night shift so hung around to join in
[21:38] <pleia2> #action pleia2 to publish "welcome" document for new board members with policy for approvals
[21:38] <meetingology> ACTION: pleia2 to publish "welcome" document for new board members with policy for approvals
[21:39] <jono> pleia2, awesome!
[21:39] <dholbach> great
[21:39] <popey> win
[21:39] <head_victim> Thanks everyone
[21:39] <jono> I think this covers many of the key areas
[21:39] <jono> maybe we should focus on these actions first
[21:39] <jono> and then review in another meeting?
[21:39] <dholbach> or at UDS
[21:40] <jono> dholbach, good idea
[21:40] <pleia2> sounds good
[21:40] <dholbach> I'll add it to my TODO list to schedule such a session
[21:40] <pleia2> thanks dholbach
[21:40] <jono> awesome
[21:40] <Laney> we should make sure this document leaves room for interpretation
[21:41] <popey> +1
[21:41] <jono> alright
[21:41] <jono> are we done?
[21:41] <pleia2> highvoltage: still about? was your "Defining what upstream contributions are in terms of membership" agenda item sufficiently discussed this past month? (I didn't want to just remove it without asking)
[21:41] <pleia2> I think it was, just need to be sure we don't have loose ends that we need to take care of or document
[21:42] <pleia2> aside from what we've already discussed today, of course
[21:42] <highvoltage> pleia2: it was, I can't find the link to it though (been looking for it for dholbach)
[21:43] <Laney> highvoltage: a summary would be nice
[21:43] <geser> is this documented somewhere which upstream contribution count for Ubuntu membership?
[21:43] <highvoltage> Laney: the outcome was basically that upstream contributions do count if it affect ubuntu significantly (maybe not exact workding, but that's basically it in concept)
[21:44] <highvoltage> Laney: I believe the plan is to take more tricky applications on a case-by-case basis until there is more convention to document
[21:44] <pleia2> since we're giving examples of work in loco teams and such that counts, I think we should add upstream as a category of contributions that we can give examples of
[21:45] <dholbach> that sounds reasonable to me ... if the relevance is clearly enough described in the application (I was not part of that last meeting)
[21:45] <highvoltage> http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/713 gives some more background on sabdfl's view on it, which I think is reasonable
[21:46] <pleia2> ok, I tihnk we can wrap up then :)
[21:46] <pleia2> thanks highvoltage
[21:46] <jono> thanks everyone!
[21:46] <pleia2> #endmeeting
[21:46] <meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Sep  6 21:46:40 2011 UTC.
[21:46] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-09-06-21.00.moin.txt
[21:46] <popey> \o/
[21:46] <mako> thanks everyone!
[21:47] <dholbach> thanks everyone
[21:47] <dholbach> with that I'm off to bed :)
[21:47] <popey> nn
[21:47]  * popey hugs dholbach 
[21:47] <geser> n8 dholbach
[21:48]  * dholbach hugs you all back
[21:48] <highvoltage> goodnight everyone
[21:48] <Laney> pfft, midnight
[21:48] <Laney> slacker
[21:48] <dholbach> :-P
[21:48] <highvoltage> <greeting that is appropriate to your timezone />
[23:07] <ScottK> highvoltage: Is the result of the upstream contributions count discussion documented anywhere?
[23:07] <ScottK> I thought today's meeting (which I couldn't make) was the one where it was going to get discussed (oddly enough since it was on the agenda).