[01:25] haha, I still think yesterday's google doodle was epic XD [01:25] * HazRPG re-watches video [02:16] http://www.onlive.com/ [02:16] bah, wrong box o.O [04:04] joey blingz yall === JoeyBLINGZ is now known as FinglyFangly [06:44] good morning [07:01] Morning all [07:02] morning [07:03] hey people [07:03] too early again :S [07:03] hehe [07:03] morning [07:03] AlanBell <3 [07:03] hardly worth getting up today [07:03] rainy rainy nasty [07:04] morning earthlings. [07:06] More the wind down here AlanBell, rain isn't so bad if it wasn't for the wind! Garden was a right state this morning :( [07:06] yeah raining like mad here too [07:07] hello all [07:08] heya [07:26] Morning all [07:36] Morning [07:40] Seen this? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-14765545 [07:50] morning guys :) [07:50] morning [07:50] * HazRPG chews into some fresh bread w/butter [07:51] nom :) [07:52] daubers: interesting read dude [07:57] I've always thought it daft for governments to rely too heavily on proprietary software, when it's the countries money they're spending to do so [08:05] I agree HazRPG, suppose it's just been ease and what they know [08:07] diplo: true, but you'd think with the sheer size of some of the departments, you'd think someone (even if its just in the IT admin/IT support side of things) ... someone somewhere must be using something open-source of have knowledge of something that could ease the effort to bring in open-sourced software in [08:09] I'll use people I've met, talked with, etc over time in our small city (cumbria isn't big - and even fewer like change here)... I know a very large handful of people that have, know, or seen open-source software somewhere [08:10] I mean most people I know (most of which aren't good with IT) have at least firefox on their systems, out of pure choice and not because someone told them to [08:10] I've seen people who would rather use google docs, etc [08:10] It's worth remembering that free software isn't really free-as-in-free beer from that perspective, either [08:11] BigRedS: exactly, just to know a popular one - Red Hat [08:11] you need to pay for someone to install it and look after it and, typically, those people are more expensive than MS drones, for example [08:11] Even Debian or Ubuntu. They don't just magically start doing what you want them to and never stop [08:11] exactly [08:11] although, to say that support costs for open-source is more expensive isn't always true [08:12] HazRPG: we were apart from desktops all opensource software [08:12] No, but it's not like you can say "Pah. £3M on . They should have gone open sauce". It's quite possible to spend £3M putting an open source, or open source derived, system in [08:12] But a change in management we went from all to 2 linux servers [08:13] Also, issues with the likes of FF are locking them to GPO's etc [08:13] And also ram usage for us was to much, would have killed our Terminal Services, IE was just to well integrated. [08:14] I was actually looking at trying LTSP at one point, but new management didn't want to because they were scared that they would be to dependant on me and my colleague [08:14] Even though I wrote good notes / how to's [08:18] Also something I have found since changing jobs is that there are not a huge group of people like me and my colleagues that will work on what ever is best for thejob [08:18] My brother for instance is Windows only and sees no place in linux in anything and that it is shit with out even trying it. [08:19] Argues the point _all_ the time, where as I use wat ever works best for me. [08:20] yes popey, andylockran does now work with Mez. [08:20] diplo: my parents and sister use windows, and me to be honest, and they see no reason to change at all [08:20] I don't know who I feel more sorry for. andylockran or the world. [08:21] Mez: andylockran ;) [08:21] I've nearly talked my dad into changing, he wants to use AutoCAD even though he doesn't *need* it [08:23] Surely there's not a lot you can do with autocad that you don't need autocad for, what's he doing with it? [08:23] diplo: yeah I see what you mean, I use whatever best for a given task too - but your right, there are very few who see it that way [08:23] * BigRedS imagines him making flyers for school fetes in autocad [08:24] diplo: I managed to convert my sister to linux, simply because she respects my judgement more than the fact that its actually good/bad. Plus it means if something goes wrong, she knows exactly who to turn to - even before I converted her to linux, she still used any software recommendations I told her... and didn't mind learning them... in fact sometimes she thanked me for teaching her the new stuff [08:25] My brother's on an endless cycle of getting annoyed enough by Windows to switch to a linux, then getting annoyed enough by Linux to put Windows back. [08:25] BigRedS: I really don't know, he was a Ship designer before he retired and can't let it go [08:25] :) [08:25] I think he's borrowing a mac off someone currently [08:25] diplo: haha, so he doesn't actually use it, just feels the need to have it knocking around? :) [08:26] I can't see what he does use it for [08:26] diplo: I bet you FreeCAD, SagCAD, or similar might just serve him just as easily :P [08:26] Really? [08:26] Just it's the only software he actually knows inside out, after 20 years with PC's he still types with a single finger [08:26] ah just let him use windows :S [08:26] I've never heard any AutoCAD users get along with any of the other offerings [08:27] Same here BigRedS, I tried at last place i worked [08:27] wikileaks is awesome blogging material [08:27] AlanBell: indeed :P [08:27] But like that BBC doc mentioned ( comments ) some of our people wanted Photoshop to edit simple images [08:27] I said no, just use this or that [08:27] And then got over ruled by management who didn't know better [08:28] BigRedS: seems like your bother just isn't too keen to try and work out how to fix things, and enjoy doing so rather then getting frustrated with it :P [08:28] diplo: it's their money lol [08:28] So we wasted nearly 3k on software that would never be used for what it was designed [08:28] No MooDoo, it was MY bonus :/ [08:28] ah! [08:28] diplo: yeah, I read that and lul'd [08:28] morning [08:28] HazRPG: no, he doesn't fancy fixing things. He wants to get work done [08:28] It really really annoyed me, one of the reasons I no longer work they [08:29] That's my thing, too, but I've just learnt to accept what's available :) [08:29] They have people who knew about it, but wouldn't listen to expertise, just listened to sales men and basically the company is in a downward spiral now [08:30] heh: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=647959 [08:30] Mozilla bug 647959 in CA Certificates "Add Honest Achmed's root certificate" [Normal,Resolved: invalid] [08:30] BigRedS: I'm sure most people, given the opportunity, would love things to always just work as they should, but sometimes you have to realise not everything is perfect and you have to learn to solve the issue yourself. :) I'm always reminded of this comic: http://xkcd.com/627/ :P [08:34] Hah, yeah. But some people are annoyed by bad design decisions. He's one of those people. [08:35] He's never going to just 'accept' that it makes sense for, say, apt to sit there downloading for a while and then, only when it's got *everything*, start installing [08:37] One of the guys I used to work with, he will use wat ever but is stuck with what he knows.. which was RHEL/CentOS and IE/Windows for developing [08:37] I'll use what ever gets the job done :D [08:37] Last week I eventually got him to try Firefox and a couple of web developing icons [08:37] And he said 'Bloody hell andy why didn't you tell me about this before' [08:38] I had been trying for 3-4 years [08:38] :P [08:38] MooDoo: that is nearly everything, though. The arguments are over how quickly/easily they get the job done :) [08:38] Also used apt-get for first time last week, he can't believe how much better it was than yum, I'd been trying to convert him to debian at work for years :/ [08:38] Good morning everyone! [08:38] BigRedS: depends on what you're used to i suppose! [08:38] morning JT [08:39] BigRedS: heh, I always thought that was better - rather then going to site a, or site b for stuff and clogging up folders (or worse my desktop) with installers - its better to have apt get them, install them... and have them sorted in its cache (and auto remove them if needed) [08:39] morning JamesTait [08:40] HazRPG: no, that's not the bit he's annoyed about [08:40] He wonders why, when apt's got the first package it doesn't start installing it while retrieving the second [08:40] BigRedS: nothing annoyed me more about windows, then installing something to get the dreaded "dll missing" or "framework missing" message. [08:40] BigRedS: ahhh lol [08:41] And, while you're waiting for the download-everything-then-install-everything, you can't install anything else [08:41] hmm [08:41] whereas with, say, Windows, he just ctrl-A's an entire directory of installers, hits 'Enter' and goes to down fragmenting the hell out of his filesystem [08:41] s/down/town/ [08:41] see, this is why I request several things at once when using apt ^_^ [08:42] see I never understood why people like to do several things while installing stuff [08:42] well, you do apt-get install [several things] and it wanders off for half an hour [08:42] I'd rather set something up to install, go have a break from the computer, and come back [08:43] and then you remember that there's no vim, so you want to just install it [08:43] but you can't [08:43] that way I don't fragment my hdd too much :) [08:43] ach. fragmentation's part of teh tedium I expect the computer to deal with so I don't have to :) [08:45] BigRedS: heh, you know if it hasn't started installing stuff and its still grabbing them... that you can do CTRL+C (I think it is)... UP... change the command slightly, and it'll resume from where it left off (it won't redownload anything that's already been downloaded - it might have to redownload the previous thing it hadn't finished though) [08:45] yeah [08:45] but it'd be nice if there was a polite way of doing it [08:45] although, once you've gotten to the point of no return (installing stuff) I wouldn't bother till its done [08:46] apt-get -f install && apt-get install [whatever you wanted to add] [08:46] is even less polite than ctrl-cing the download, though [08:46] heh [08:47] see, this is one thing I like about the software centre in some cases... you can queue up several things :) [08:47] the "polite" way is to ues software centre :P [08:47] gord: beat you to it ;) [08:47] i actually really like sc these days, its neat. just wish apt wasn't so darn slow [08:48] cheers all [08:48] gord: thing about apt I'd like to see, is being able to issue more commands on a different terminal, and have them process into some sort of queue [08:48] hoover: hmm? [08:49] HazRPG: Like the software centre does [08:49] It's why I've started using it more [08:49] So I can queue up things on a fresh install [08:50] diplo: Yeah, I thought I mentioned that :P [08:50] Really out to roll my own distro/version with everything preinstalled, pretty much use same apps all that [08:50] ah, hadn't scrolled backup that far :) [08:50] diplo: I use the software centre too on fresh installs - I use it even more when showing new people ubuntu :P [08:51] Just wish I could get Natty running nicely on my laptop, keep going back to Win7 as it just works [08:51] diplo: its alright ;) [08:51] Use ubuntu on my pc here ( this machine ) and lappy at home [08:51] diplo: I've complete disregarded natty as an actual ubuntu distro ^_^ [08:51] diplo: I just made a package which depends on everything I want [08:51] But work laptop I keep going back to windows [08:51] diplo: I feel it's a ME/Vista type thing, and that the next one will rock! [08:51] so I get a new machine, add my repo, apt-get install avi and then I've got everything I need/want [08:51] Oooh wrote up how you did it BigRedS ? [08:52] BigRedS: interesting, I'll have to remember to ask you about that! [08:52] * diplo would like to read that [08:52] ah, no [08:52] I keep meaning to write a blog post [08:52] maybe that'll be it [08:52] BigRedS: epic :) [08:52] BigRedS: make sure to highlight me if you do :) [08:52] Whoo. I will need reminding :) [08:53] I keep meaning to write a bash script (and store to U1 and Dropbox) which just does the whole install of usual crap for me :P [08:55] BigRedS: either that, or try and add a software centre command line tool ^_^ [08:55] imagine being able to just software-centre -q package-name [08:55] where -q would be queue [09:04] HazRPG: well, it is open source :) Is there a command-line software-center? [09:04] and is it called 'software-centre' in en_gb? :) [09:04] BigRedS: I don't think so... but would be cool to add one to it :) [09:05] BigRedS: http://ScrnSht.com/tokbqg [09:06] in the terminal its just "software-center" however :( [09:06] HazRPG: ah yeah, I meant the hypothetical command-line one [09:06] tsk tsk [09:06] http://pastebin.com/FANaLLai [09:07] that's the output of help [09:07] so it does have terminal features, just very few [09:07] I'm sure if some patches were applied into the repo for it, that they might get considered (at the very least) [09:08] also, I don't think it would be too hard to add a terminal alias for software-centre :P [09:09] ahh, so it's just ways to invoke the gui [09:09] [Alan Bell] If all else fails, switch to Open Source - http://www.theopensourcerer.com/2011/09/06/if-all-else-fails-switch-to-open-source/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=if-all-else-fails-switch-to-open-source [09:09] I'd suggest, though, that in Aptitude we've already got most of what the software-center does, on the terminal :) [09:19] MooDoo: You are a web dev aren't you ? [09:26] diplo: web devs don't normally admit to being one without first having agreed on a price :) [09:26] :P [09:26] BigRedS: haha [09:27] I've given up saying that I'm a web dev (oh will you design me a site? Dev not Designer!). These days I'm a programmer [09:29] Ah bigcalm q for you then.. :P [09:29] Ever had an issue with onblur/onfocus in IE9 [09:29] * bigcalm hisses and makes himself look bigger than he really is [09:29] :D [09:29] bigcalm: Ah, I get that as a sysadmin :/. Handily, I can respond with "Have you seen my site?" which usually puts them off wanting me to make theirs :) [09:29] Heh [09:30] diplo: no, I tend to use jQuery rather than using inline JS [09:30] Can't seem to find issues or google any help but since IE9 in our search box the 'Product Search' doesn't disappear anymore [09:32] anyone know why i get the following with tail -f /file.ext tail: cannot watch `/var/log/apache2/error.log': No space left on device [09:33] /dev/sda1 457643 31670 402727 8% / [09:33] used : 8% [09:33] Maybe it's run out of swap [09:34] i have 11gigs of swap, i doubt that [09:34] [09:34] :D [09:34] * dogmatic69 will just reboot :/ [09:34] maybe there are open files which have been deleted but are still taking up space [09:35] Hmm interesting! [09:35] Didn't even know this existed! http://barcampblackpool.com/ [09:35] free -m says 130mb [09:37] dogmatic69: 11G of swap? [09:37] IIRC, that's a bug in tail but I can't remember what it is [09:37] ubuntu done that, auto install... [09:37] haha, that's hilarious [09:38] how much ram does it have? [09:39] 4gig [09:40] hmm... sudo tail works fine [09:40] tail dumps some then dies [09:41] reading a blog, someone posted 'sysctl -w fs.inotify.max_user_watches=16384' as a fix... anyone know what that does? [09:42] heh dogmatic69 just read same Gentoo post ? [09:42] ye [09:42] mine is currently 8k like the post [09:42] his was the other way round though. sudo was broke and user was fine [09:43] my sudo is fine [09:43] hmmm i need a new server [09:44] dogmatic69: it increases the amount of people allowed to watch for changes to the filesystem, basically [09:45] so that'd work if the issue is that too many processes are already monitoring the filesystem for changes (things like nautilus do to so as son as you create a directory it can show it, and desktop search wotsits do that too) [09:46] ah ok [09:47] so would sudo create more space to watch with? [09:48] ill just reboot [09:48] 26 days uptime [09:51] Quick Q - Best of a bad bunch, FAT, FAT32 or NTFS? [09:52] ntfs [09:52] depending on setup [09:54] Plugging a HDD into a media player to play high def movies [09:54] Bomster: NTFS longer file names as well [09:54] probably fat then [09:54] FAT32 has a limit on file names?! [09:54] what's the media player? [09:54] FAT has a 4GB file limit though.. [09:54] some of them don't like ntfs [09:54] Cyclone Micro 2+ [09:54] it plays nice with ntfs. [09:55] Why can't there just be a univeral file format :) [09:55] yes it's go with ntfs then [09:55] *:( [09:55] i'd go with [09:55] The only hitch is that OS X doesn't play nice with NTFS.. [09:55] Why can't they just all get along.. [09:58] morning all [09:59] morning davmor2 [09:59] davmor2: pool isn't looking to go for you at the moment ;) [10:01] MooDoo: it's only labour that can go on for hours ;) Although I really hope not for your missus sake :D [10:02] davmor2: we think she's in slow labour now.....she's got to see the midwife tomorrow [10:02] MooDoo: so perfect then having it tomorrow at 2 am :P [10:03] lol if she does, it will be the same time our first was born [10:09] hi I have 2 nVidia GEForce GTS 250 but the nvidia driver is only detecting the one card. Anyone got an idea how to fix that? [10:09] [Jonathan Riddell] Falkirk LUG Talk Tonight - http://blogs.kde.org/node/4477 [10:12] Right, HP claim form filled out and in envelope, now need to remember to post it! [10:12] only taken a week or so so far :D [10:14] good morning everyone, [10:18] brobostigon: morning [10:20] * czajkowski slaps davmor2 [10:20] MooDoo: any baby yet ? [10:20] morning MooDoo [10:21] czajkowski: slow labour [10:21] czajkowski: here have a big hug for being so lovely :D [10:22] czajkowski: nope no sign [10:23] davmor2: czajkowski is lovely...:) [10:23] MooDoo: do ye know what yer having ? [10:23] czajkowski: no, we want a surprise [10:23] czajkowski: In the baby pool I a 2am tomorrow what you going for? [10:24] Anybody have any ideas as to why Ubuntu shows my processor clock speed at the stock 2.93GHz per core rather than the overclocked speed which it's set to in the bios? [10:28] does it say anything in /proc/cpuinfo? [10:31] MooDoo: The same info as the System Monitor displays [10:33] MooDoo: http://kvarley.co.uk/tl_files/temp/Screenshot-System%20Monitor.png [10:34] any idea how I log a bug about apport before I throw my machine out a window... [10:38] just start it on launchpad rather than going thru ubuntu-bug? ala https://bugs.launchpad.net/apport/+filebug ? [10:39] czajkowski: why what is wrong with apport? [10:41] (and if it works, you can use apport-collect bugnumber to fill in the gaps after the bug is created) [10:46] davmor2: it's crashing but I don't know what about and it goes to submit and doesnt go the whole hog [10:46] davmor2: I think it really really hates the respawning processes like global menu [10:47] if the menu goes off on one and crashes and respawns every second 20 times in a row then apport gets in a bit of a fluster [10:47] AlanBell: HAHA! It hates everything! that's it's job being a tell tale :) [10:47] and then apport crashes and hates itself [10:48] it is really bad if you are trying to use the desktop with orca and no monitor [10:57] whoo [10:57] I made a successful omelette for the first time in years [10:57] (and don't ask me how I've done it in the past) [11:00] HUHHUHHUUHHHHUUUUU too much chili in the omelette [11:00] haha [11:00] <3 [11:02] * Pendulum hugs Myrtti [11:03] I have to get Julia Child's legendary book from somewhere [11:05] I have not tried putting chilis in an omlette, but I do crush them on eggs [11:05] sounds like a great omlette Myrtti [11:06] AlanBell: since all paprika and chili both benefit from being heated, it seemed the most natural way [11:08] heat up some oil in the pan, toss in some chopped chili, fry for a while, add egg. [11:09] nom [11:09] just need my hens to start laying [11:09] even ground dry paprika benefits from being cooked in oil for a while before adding more ingredients [11:11] * popey wonders if any minecrafters have a moment to test how many people we can get on a 1.6GHz Atom server :D [11:12] i can global notice and ask for you.. [11:12] * christel hides [11:12] haha [11:12] ;) [11:12] join #ubuntu-uk-minecraft if you have 2 mins and a copy of minecraft handy :D [11:16] you're a loonatic [11:28] some LoCo's have team channels and chat channels [11:28] we've got a minecraft channel. [11:29] still having the tail -f problem even after a reboot [11:29] :( [11:30] Afternoon all :-) [11:33] howdy [11:34] Myrtti: all about being social [11:58] Afternoon [12:07] Back to Sunny England :/ [12:18] lovely isn't it [12:19] my garden furniture is being destroyed by the wind :( [12:21] https://twitter.com/#!/se1/status/110987216611848192 [12:22] yay copper thieves [12:26] Come up with a solution to that and the railways would pay you a fortune [12:26] electrify it [12:27] BigRedS++ [12:27] Or make it toxic in some way [12:28] switch to fibre optic instead ;) [12:29] diesel [12:30] Ink cartridges that stain you (like with money) [12:30] unwashable colours etc. [12:30] I need to stop munching these Fudges cheddar wafers [12:31] but they are so decadently good [12:31] Any suggestions as to what a "Geek chic" dress code might entail ? [12:33] perl-sloganed t-shirt, trousers with map pockets, hiking boots, black leather jacket and an oddly-masculine ponytail? [12:33] a mullet [12:33] or one of those [12:33] neckbeard [12:34] A Flying Spaghetti Monster t-shirt? [12:35] popey: You just after 1 usb car charger ? [12:35] don't think I have ever been chic [12:35] sounds like it is missing a ken to me [12:35] diplo: that specific one, two off probably [12:36] most of them are ~500ma, that one is 1A [12:36] * MartijnVdS has a 1A one [12:36] gets the phone really hot [12:36] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geek#Geek_chic [12:36] "come as you are isn't too helpful" [12:37] misplaced close quote [12:37] lol, "See also, OCD" [12:37] my fingers closed it for me [12:38] I was in my jammies when I read the "come as you are" instruction [12:39] oh right was going to offer you a spare one I have but its 250ma :) [12:39] So guessing a bit under for you [12:39] Bought 2 for some reason [12:39] dinner at hogwarts tomorrow http://transfersummit.com/gala-dinner [12:40] AlanBell: you get invited to all the fancy parties then? :) [12:41] yeah, and I haven't got a thing to wear [12:41] AlanBell: Black gown? :) [12:43] LBD [12:44] Dress robes? [12:49] Still might take my DJ for tomorrow... Just in case. [12:53] ooh TheOpenSourcerer AlanBell you going to ts11 as well eh [12:53] Yes andypiper You too? [12:53] yep [12:53] Cool. [12:53] * directhex moos [12:53] Going up this evening [12:54] ditto... late-ish though I think [12:54] Greetings [12:54] e/lastlog JGJones [12:54] grr, stupid fingers [12:54] * TheOpenSourcerer doesn't think about asking andypiper for fashion advice ;-) [12:54] Hi JGJones [12:54] good thinking [12:54] I have none. I need a lot [12:55] lol [12:55] Taking a "break" from writing. It's obvious I haven't really don't any handwriting since leaving school in 1996. Just 1 page of A4 and my hand's sore as hell. [12:55] grammar fail [12:56] After seeing his hand-writing I think that AlanBell stopped using a pen around age 6. [12:56] Would make sense I guess coz when I was 6 computers still hadn't been invented - not with keyboards at any rate. [12:57] He must be old then ;-) as I can't even read my granny's handwriting - it's just a wavy line. Although my dad is able to read it with ease. It's just wavy lines...no letter shapes. [12:59] I was indeed using computers age 6 [13:00] Trying to start a vpn from nm but getting a very unhelpful message "VPN service failed to start". Do I need to be any groups or anything? [13:01] AlanBell: TheOpenSourcerer http://www.eweekeurope.co.uk/news/uk-government-flounders-in-commitment-to-open-source-38723 [13:01] DJones: Yep - read them all. [13:01] :) [13:03] TheOpenSourcerer, which type of vpn? [13:03] ms pptp I think. [13:03] any logging anywhere? [13:04] maybe in one of the kernel related logs [13:04] i don't have pptp experience [13:04] you MS fan you [13:04] Bloody customers. [13:05] I guess it is an MS vpn anyway. Not much info to go on. A gateway IP, user and pwd. [13:06] PPTP is in ppp logs, if anywhere [13:07] There's a bit in syslog but nothing very helpful tbh [13:07] TheOpenSourcerer: From my experience you have to turn off a lot of settings in options [13:08] See if I can find settings a mo [13:08] Ahh [13:08] messages [13:08] /var/log/messages === evilGary is now known as Gary [13:08] Sep 6 14:08:26 lobsang pppd[8057]: Using interface ppp0 [13:08] Sep 6 14:08:26 lobsang pppd[8057]: Connect: ppp0 <--> /dev/pts/7 [13:08] Sep 6 14:08:27 lobsang pppd[8057]: LCP terminated by peer (^VM-^_5}^@ cool [13:09] Not got my settings anymore but under advanced settings I had to uncheck most of the boxes in there [13:09] To get mine to work against a MS VPN [13:12] Sep 6 14:12:26 lobsang pppd[8168]: CHAP authentication succeeded [13:12] Sep 6 14:12:26 lobsang pppd[8168]: LCP terminated by peer (z*t7^@ yay! [13:16] Had to turn on MPPE by the looks of it [13:16] Turned off everything else too - thanks diplo [13:19] took lots of playing for me as well [13:19] Didn't seem to be the same for different setups [13:19] Sucks :( [13:23] I have only just noticed that Windows 7 has Super+(N) (number) to get to the apps on the task bar [13:23] (like what unity has) [13:26] lol, been using Win7 for a good while now and I didn't know that popey thanks :) [13:27] i hit it by accident [13:27] the fact that I'm running win7 on a mbp means I hit the clover leaf mac key when I meant to hit alt... a lot [13:28]