[00:34] <brousch> nixternal: does ubuntu-chicago have meetings?
[00:41] <rick_h_> nixternal: what bike did you run? You still riding?
[00:49] <greg-g> bikes? someone said bikes?
[00:49] <rick_h_> greg-g: !!!
[00:49] <rick_h_> dude
[00:49] <rick_h_> halp!
[00:49] <rick_h_> I'm in bike overload
[00:50] <greg-g> :)
[00:50] <greg-g> I'm on a plane, laggy laggy
[00:50] <rick_h_> ouch
[00:50] <rick_h_> I think I'm down to the trek 7.2, 7.3, or fast city/wingra
[00:50] <rick_h_> going to hit the shop tomorrow and try to see if they have any of those to ride
[00:50] <greg-g> nice
[00:52] <rick_h_> my poor old 10+yr old GT aggressor isn't keeping up and having derailor issues.
[00:52] <rick_h_> especially with the boy on the trailer
[00:53] <rick_h_> is there another comparable brand I shuold be making sure I compare against?
[00:53] <rick_h_> I checked schwinn, seems a bit cheaper all around
[00:53] <rick_h_> diamondback, website was a pita to use
[01:01] <snap-l> schwinn is essentially a chinese bike manufacturer
[01:01] <snap-l> I believe they make all of the mongoose, huffy, and schwinn bikes
[01:06] <rick_h_> k, I wasn't feeling all warm/fuzzy when I checked
[01:06] <rick_h_> the diamondback seems like it might be cool, but not really sure
[01:06] <rick_h_> not as much info as trek
[01:06] <greg-g> rick_h_: Lemond. Made by trek, but cheaper. Kinda like the GMC/Chevy difference.
[01:07] <rick_h_> greg-g: looking, thanks!
[01:08] <rick_h_> hmm, seeing stuff on a lawsuit in 2009 and no bikes
[01:08] <rick_h_> just some excercise gear
[01:36] <greg-g> rick_h_: huh! I didn't know! :)
[01:49] <snap-l> jrwren: I added your blog post to the team report.
[02:10] <nixternal> rick_h_: if you get the wingra cheap enough go for it, or wait a few more weeks and pick up a Trek 7.3FX (I have one, awesome bike!). The 2012 Trek's come out soon and last years models will drop about $100
[02:11] <nixternal> snap-l: schwinn is owned by pacifica, which is the same company that makes all of those bike you said plus they also make Cannondale lower end frames
[02:11] <nixternal> brousch: ubuntu-chicago hasn't had a meeting in a while. well they have had them, i just don't go to them
[02:12] <nixternal> greg-g: LeMond is no longer. Greg and Trek had a fall out years ago
[02:13] <nixternal> Trek has a lifetime warranty on their frames, their bikes are good. The 7.3FX is made in Taiwan I think, but that is no biggy anymore. Also, you want to build a good relation with the shop you choose
[12:07] <Wolfger> morning, party people
[12:10] <brousch> in the place to be
[12:10] <rick_h_> yay for broken work network connections to liven up the day
[12:11] <brousch> go home and work
[12:22] <snap-l> rick_h_: That's the beauty of holiday weekends: something always breaks
[12:26] <rick_h_> yea, and holiday returns...helpdesk isn't in yet. Must be taking the late bus into work today
[12:26] <brousch> is that a short bus?
[12:37] <snap-l> brousch: Hey now. IT folks gotta get to work somehow. ;)
[13:09] <rick_h_> http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/k6c8z/guis_kick_clis_asses/
[13:09] <rick_h_> I'm afraid to click
[13:09] <rick_h_> not sure if I'm ready to contain the rage this early :P
[13:10] <Wolfger> do it
[13:10] <Wolfger> release the beast
[13:10] <brousch> rick_h_: you are just ignorant about good guis
[13:11] <brousch> rick_h_: don't go there. it is idiotic
[13:12] <rick_h_> crap, too late
[13:12] <rick_h_> *sigh*
[13:13] <brousch> sorry man, i tried to save you
[13:13] <rick_h_> g<tab><space>co<space>m<tab><enter> or g<space>com if you're a rock start
[13:13] <rick_h_> and he forgets the fact that he's got to open/get his damn gui to that place he can use his 6 keypresses
[13:14] <rick_h_> bah, C-w, C-w!!!!
[13:15] <_stink_> hah, http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/k6c8z/guis_kick_clis_asses/c2htw87
[13:17] <Wolfger> '“But wait,” the Vim fanboy cries, “how the hell could a GUI have anything close to a “high” speed rating?”'
[13:17] <Wolfger> ...seems like he's talked to rick_h_ :-)
[13:18] <rick_h_> I'm replying, once second
[13:18] <rick_h_> ok, reply entered
[13:18] <_stink_> second?
[13:18] <brousch> it would only take half a second to reply if you were doing it via gui
[13:19] <jcastro> man, awesome
[13:19] <jcastro> snap-l: did you read this "techcrunch may be over" blog?
[13:19] <rick_h_> jcastro: :) wouldn't that be great
[13:19] <rick_h_> I thnk it's just the rise of MG though
[13:19] <jcastro> http://techcrunch.com/2011/09/06/the-end/
[13:20] <jcastro> yeah
[13:20] <jcastro> I wouldn't miss that guy
[13:20] <rick_h_> I mean, he's the only flame-bait up there to bring in clicks now
[13:20] <rick_h_> everyone else to to reasonable
[13:20] <jcastro> he's the revisionist maclot snap-l aspires to be
[13:21] <rick_h_> I'm pretty sure I saw at least 3 posters when I was there before the jam this weekend
[13:21] <Wolfger> _stink_: I ++'d that comment. Thanks for the link to it. :-)
[13:24] <_stink_> o/
[13:25] <rick_h_> crap he replied and more nonsense came out
[13:25] <rick_h_> I need to just close it
[13:25] <brousch> you can't close it without cd'ing to the directory where the binary is
[13:25]  * rick_h_ is resisting urge to send workit link, link to pyohio talk on building dev environments, noting every damn tool out there that bootstraps envs uses cmd line...
[13:25] <brousch> sounds like a lot of work
[13:26] <rick_h_> yea, and if I shortcut git to g it might conflict with a lot of other programs named g
[13:52] <snap-l> jcastro: Did you seriously compare me with Mike Arrington?
[13:52] <jcastro> no, MG Siegler.
[13:52] <snap-l> brb, have to start my compost pile to give you when you return
[13:52] <jcastro> :D
[13:53] <snap-l> I never like seeing a founder leave their company after a takeover
[13:54] <snap-l> but frankly, Techcrunch did it to themselves by partnering with AOL
[13:54] <snap-l> AOL is about as "don't get it" as you can get.
[13:55] <rick_h_> I think that starting your own VC company when you're a news source is about as "don't get it" as you can get
[13:55] <snap-l> I envision someone took a stroll through the mail-room, spied a pile of Infoworld magazines, and saw "Techcrunch" on one of the labels and exclaimed "What the hell is a Techcrunch?"
[13:55] <snap-l> and then filed everyone into their office for a proper dress-down
[13:56] <snap-l> rick_h_: that too
[13:57] <rick_h_> "I'm sick of interviewing rich kids who are bound to make more $$ than me, let's start our own VC fund and then they can grovel like the kids they are!"
[13:58] <snap-l> Jesus, this blog entry is pretty myopic
[13:58] <snap-l> the GUI vs. CLI
[13:58] <snap-l> Use both, and STFU
[14:00] <snap-l> I wouldn't want to set my system volume from a pulse-audio command, and I wouldn't want to try onboarding an entire datacenter from a GUI
[14:01] <snap-l> well, I would love to onboard an entire datacenter with a single button called "do it, and do it right"
[14:01] <jjesse> if i have the jobs and task structure built right then i'll build a data center from a gui
[14:01] <jjesse> drag job stream to stack of computers, go to lunch, profit
[14:02] <snap-l> but if we're being unrealistic, I'd love to shout that command to my magickal flying Pegasus while soaring through the datacenter on a rainbow-colored highway of dreams.
[14:02] <jjesse> i'm not bein unrealistic
[14:03] <snap-l> jjesse: And when one errors out?
[14:03] <jjesse> depends on if you can build jobs and tasks around whatever return code you are receiving
[14:03] <snap-l> Also, what's happening in the background? Is it just using command-line when you're not looking? :)
[14:03] <jjesse> depends on what stage of the game i'm running
[14:03] <snap-l> exactly
[14:04] <jjesse> hard to run in GUI when you are operating in a pre-boot environment
[14:16] <brousch> i understand what the geeker means about seeing more in a GUI. but i've come to realize most of what you're seeing is useless noise 90% of the time
[14:17] <brousch> dozens of buttons i don't need or don't need right now, folder hierarchies i don't care about until i want to open a different file, class hierarchies i don't ever actually look at
[14:34] <Wolfger> right
[14:35] <brousch> but for some reason having those things makes me feel better than not having them. i cannot explain why
[14:35] <Wolfger> if I want to see all that in a CLI, I can. In fact, I usually *do* run ls before I cp or mv
[14:36] <Wolfger> where GUI rules is when I don't know what I'm looking for. It's easier to browse
[14:41] <ch0use> so has anyone built a set of load-balanced apache web servers using ipvs or crossroads or something?
[14:41] <ch0use> ala http://www.ultramonkey.org/papers/lvs_tutorial/html/
[14:43] <ch0use> i have 2 identical ubunu webservers behind an ubuntu nat/router and currently port 80 is forwarding to one of them, but i want the router to balance across the two, bunch of virtualhost domain websites etc
[14:54] <rick_h_> ch0use: I'd just start out with dns round robin
[14:54] <rick_h_> if you need more than that, check out haproxy
[14:55] <ch0use> the rub of it is i only have 1 internet IP, so dns-rr isn't an option
[14:55] <ch0use> good game haproxy, will give it a look
[14:55] <rick_h_> right, but the router can have multiple dns entries for where it's sending to
[14:55] <rick_h_> if your firewall box has two entries in it's local dns for web.something.com
[14:56] <rick_h_> it should round robin those
[14:57] <ch0use> do you mean iptables config, where i have it accept and direct port 80 requests to the IP of the internal webserver? change to use a hostname that resolves to the 2 IPs of the 2 internal webesrvers?
[14:58] <rick_h_> no, I mean internal DNS
[14:58] <rick_h_> where you setup your internal IP addresses to names you give them
[14:59] <ch0use> alright so some more background, this is for a webhosting env out on the internet running on vmware esx. 1 internet-facing VM, 2 private-network VMs behind it, currently fowarding internet incoming port 80 to one of the web VMs
[14:59] <rick_h_> the 3vms have to have an ip address on the same network
[14:59] <ch0use> correct
[14:59] <rick_h_> your internet facing vm can run a local dns server
[15:00] <ch0use> it does
[15:00] <rick_h_> that the 3 all share
[15:00] <rick_h_> if that dns has two entries for hte same cname
[15:00] <rick_h_> ic, you're not proxying, you're straight port forwarding
[15:00] <ch0use> right
[15:00] <rick_h_> you need a proxy in there
[15:00] <ch0use> haproxy
[15:00] <rick_h_> be it an apache/nginx proxy on the internet facing host
[15:00] <rick_h_> haproxy
[15:00] <rick_h_> whatever
[15:01] <ch0use> gg
[15:01] <rick_h_> sorry, thought you already had apache on internet box forwarding to apache on internal box
[15:01] <ch0use> ah yes, not as such
[15:04] <ch0use> i have a 1U box with single install of ubuntu in Troy at Waveform colo doing webhosting for 100 or so domains, want to replace it with a virtualized platform where services are spread out over a number of VMs on a beefier box
[15:04] <ch0use> been a fun project
[15:05] <brousch> ch0use: i see gr in your domain. you on the west side?
[15:05] <ch0use> yeah
[15:05] <brousch> woohoo! we got another one
[15:05] <ch0use> :-D
[15:05] <jrwren> rick_h_: that guis kick clis asses is actually really good.
[15:08] <jrwren> ch0use: if you are doing it for scaling purposes and have stateless web apps, you can just use mod_proxy_balancer
[15:08] <jrwren> and to a lesser degree you can rely on mod_proxy_balancer stickyness
[15:13] <ch0use> interesting. users install all kinds of stateful/stateless stuff, so probably need to keep state
[15:13] <rick_h_> yea, ha proxy can handle that as well
[15:14] <ch0use> very interesting
[15:15] <ch0use> i like the idea of keeping it within apache
[15:17] <jrwren> ok... i take it back, that gui kicks CLI ass is STUPID.
[15:17] <jrwren> i can counterpoint every one of his "less keystrokes" argument.
[15:18] <jrwren> ch0use: haproxy is actually MADE for this, so unless you need apache for your port80 on that load balancer, haproxy is probably a better way to go.
[15:18] <jrwren> haproxy is going to do it WAY faster too.
[15:18] <ch0use> yeah?
[15:18] <ch0use> it does look made for it honestly
[15:19] <jrwren> well, at load... if you aren't hitting peak loads, it won't matter.
[15:19] <ch0use> i will probably give haproxy a try first
[15:19] <ch0use> other things i found are quite a bit older
[15:20] <rick_h_> yea, haproxy is meant to do this stuff. We've moved to using it and it's pretty damn awesome and can grow with you tbh
[15:20] <ch0use> very good
[15:24] <jrwren> rick_h_: does it handle stateful sessions very well?
[15:27] <rick_h_> jrwren: yea, it does some header magic and keeps people to the right server
[15:27] <rick_h_> we use it for proxying users to the multiple java app backends
[15:28] <rick_h_> you log into one and we have to keep the cookie/session stuff to the java apps consistent
[15:30] <rick_h_> http://redmine.webtoolkit.eu/projects/wt/wiki/Using_HAProxy_as_a_reverse_proxy talks about it some
[15:30] <rick_h_> using a cookie in haproxy or setting your own info to help direct it which box the user goes to
[15:33] <snap-l> WEll that was fun
[15:33] <snap-l> My network conked out
[15:33] <rick_h_> oops
[15:33] <snap-l> Happily it's working now
[15:35] <jrwren> rick_h_: thanks.
[15:37] <rick_h_> np, I'm always impressed with it. Finally got work to start using it and makes live much nicer
[15:37] <rick_h_> love tools where the boss goes "yea..but we need..."
[15:37] <rick_h_> "yea, like this...it already does that"
[15:44] <brousch> i just put my first TL;DR into an announcement to a tech group
[15:45] <rick_h_> hah, awesome
[15:45] <rick_h_> we all thank you for it
[15:47] <brousch> It's nice for them, but it's also nice for me since I feel like I can be more eloquent in the main body if I include a TL;DR
[15:52] <snap-l> I <3 contract renewal time
[15:52] <snap-l> either I'm going to be taking off two months in the Bahamas digging for sand crabs, or I'll be working
[15:52] <rick_h_> thought you were good until dec?
[15:52] <snap-l> WEll, who knows.
[15:53] <rick_h_> uh oh
[15:53] <snap-l> Can't seem to get straight answers about what this might mean
[15:53] <snap-l> could be that I get paid to do nothingx2
[15:53] <snap-l> could mean that I'm laid off
[15:53] <snap-l> Could be two months to get to tier2 support level
[15:54] <brousch> bahamas sounds good
[15:54] <snap-l> Yeah, that would be awesome
[15:56] <jrwren> rick_h_: what was that lenovo site you mentioned?
[15:56] <rick_h_> lenovooutlet.com
[15:56] <jrwren> ah, lots of bad reviews. but you are good experience?
[15:57] <rick_h_> bad reviews on what?
[15:57] <rick_h_> oh sorry, outlet.lenovo.com
[15:58] <brousch> that's a parked domain
[15:58] <rick_h_> my bad
[15:58] <_stink_> hah
[15:58] <brousch> great. now spammers know i like lenovo
[15:58] <rick_h_> bwuhahaha!
[15:58] <rick_h_> and I will find some way to profit!
[15:58] <brousch> well you work for a marketing company, so you probably get a kickback for sending me there
[15:59] <rick_h_> surely
[16:00] <brousch> enjoy your blood money!
[16:00] <jrwren> even worse, a porn makerting company :p
[16:01] <rick_h_> crap, how do I get transfered to that dept of the company?
[16:02] <brousch> wtf how is it noon already?
[16:07] <jrwren> tuesday after holiday. time is faster.
[16:08] <jrwren> its a fundamental law of physics.
[16:20] <rick_h_> jrwren: I hear that's what keeps throwing carbon dating off. Doesn't account for all post-holiday speed ups in the time continium
[16:24] <jrwren> its true.
[16:25] <jrwren> it explains the genesis creation. every day was a holiday. time went much faster. 20billion years in 6 days.
[16:30] <Wolfger> brousch: it's after noon already because of the power of GUI :-D
[16:33] <snap-l> What the fuck is this?
[16:33] <snap-l> http://www.meijer.com/s/big-steals/_/N-5io?CAWELAID=677385714&cmpid=dstue
[16:36] <ch0use> hah, i saw that in my email too
[16:36] <ch0use> i love the reviews of http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16896630001
[16:40] <ch0use> facebook generates 600GB of logfiles every day http://www.facebook.com/notes/facebook-engineering/keeping-the-site-reliable-while-moving-fast/10150277682538920
[16:40] <ch0use> fascinating
[16:40] <rick_h_> I'd have thought it'd be more :/
[16:42] <ch0use> use apache hive to distill it down
[17:07] <snap-l> Yay, got the business cards in today.
[17:13] <snap-l> https://picasaweb.google.com/117777908934895049975/MiscellaneousDebris#5649295680087388498
[17:15] <ch0use> nice. those are +1
[17:16] <greg-g> snap-l: niice!
[17:17] <snap-l> Thanks. brousch Did a heck of a job with the layout
[17:17] <snap-l> And the QR code turned out awesome on the back
[17:25] <brousch> snap-l: nice cards
[17:26] <snap-l> Thank you for the awesome layout
[17:26] <brousch> codenamed screw the UP
[17:26] <snap-l> Yeah
[17:28] <brousch> wtf is pinterest?
[17:28] <Wolfger> brousch: didn't the UP secede from Michigan?
[17:29] <rick_h_> nice!
[17:29] <snap-l> Wolfger: They will after this card. ;)
[17:30] <Wolfger> I went to college up there and my roommate was a Yooper who was a firm supporter of the movement to make the UP the 51st state.
[17:30] <Wolfger> something about paying taxes and being ignored... I dunno.
[17:31] <Wolfger> I think they're just upset they can't show where they live by pointing to a spot on their hand. :-)
[17:31] <snap-l> Yeah
[17:31] <snap-l> Or being referred to as the rabbit jumping over the mitten
[17:32] <brousch> ch0use: before you disappear, we have 2 linux user groups in GR, grlug and wmlug, check them out
[17:32] <ch0use> i have heard of them
[17:33] <ch0use> free time is very valuable so i haven't made it to any
[17:33] <jrwren> i agree entirely with teh UP people.
[17:34] <Wolfger> jrwren: yah, eh?
[17:34] <brousch> ch0use: you can hang out in #grlug on irc
[17:35] <ch0use> :-\ re http://grandrapids-lug.org/
[17:35] <brousch> yeah, that web page is a problem
[17:36] <brousch> the mailing list and weekly social meetings are what the grlug offers http://grlug.org/mailman/listinfo/grlug
[17:36] <_stink_> that site is awesome!
[17:36] <brousch> it used to redirect to a wiki that is never updated
[17:38] <jrwren> s/never udpated/down/
[17:39] <brousch> well it used to redirect to a wiki that was never updated, now i points to a wiki that is broken :P
[17:39] <Wolfger> I think that might be an improvement, actually.
[17:40] <brousch> ch0use: http://wmlug.org is another linux group. monthly meetings, announce-only mailing list, run by ptenhoopen
[17:41] <ch0use> wmlug > grlug in terms of website fyi
[17:42] <brousch> if you notice i didn't actually send you to the grlug web site ;) there's a reason for that
[17:42] <ch0use> :-D
[17:50] <snap-l> It seems our GRLUG box was stolen (or otherwise made to disappear) from it's unsupervised location at EMU.  Unfortunately, our mailing list resided on that box.
[17:50] <snap-l> Wow
[17:50] <snap-l> Talk about being hosed.
[17:50] <jrwren> why you still need backups 101 :)
[17:50] <snap-l> Why you need remote backups, 102
[17:51] <Wolfger> what's a backup? :-p
[17:51] <snap-l> Wolfger: What you'll want to have once your data disappears
[17:51] <Wolfger> Oh, right. But isn't Teh Cloud supposed to save me?
[17:52] <brousch> that happened like 6 years ago
[17:52] <brousch> just the usual east side of MI screwing the west
[17:52] <ch0use> lol
[17:52] <Wolfger> rofl
[17:52] <ch0use> I was pleased to see crashplan has a linux client via java
[17:52] <ch0use> so backing up to teh cl0ud is pretty easy
[17:52] <ch0use> or backing up to another crashplan client is free
[17:53] <brousch> i like dropbox
[18:16] <rick_h_> I like pie
[18:16] <gamerchick02> i like cake
[18:17] <rick_h_> wow, https://github.com/mitechie/pyflakes-pathogen/graphs/clones
[18:21] <snap-l> I <3 meetings where I wonder if I should be asking if I should cancel my netflix subscription
[18:21] <snap-l> rick_h_: That's awesome
[18:23] <brousch> what am i looking at?
[18:23] <rick_h_> I created that repo just so I could pathogen install pyflakes into vim
[18:23] <rick_h_> didn't realize 500+ other people a month were using it :)
[18:24] <rick_h_> my boss thought he remembered seeing my repo in some git post and thought it was cool
[18:24] <rick_h_> "you're famous" and I was like "psh, no one uses my github for much"
[18:25] <brousch> hah
[18:26] <brousch> i use it to look for vim config crap
[18:27] <gamerchick02> rick_h_ is famous! whee!
[18:27] <brousch> this is true
[18:33] <snap-l> Just put away my entire civilization in City of Wonder. I wonder what will happen. ;)
[18:38] <brousch> you will find yourself with more free time to use on fruitful endeavors
[18:39] <rick_h_> yea, how's the todo app coming along? Ready for another round of CHC hacking on it tomorrow?
[18:40] <snap-l> feh
[18:40] <snap-l> Haven't had a chance to look at it
[18:41] <snap-l> And losing the drive to even work on it
[18:41] <snap-l> going to be an interesting next few months
[18:41] <_stink_> because Tracks is awesome? :)
[18:41] <rick_h_> lol
[18:41] <rick_h_> rvm ftw! preventing a whole new app from appearing.
[18:41] <rick_h_> snap-l: that good eh?
[18:41] <snap-l> Because tracks works
[18:42] <brousch> ruby is awesome
[18:42] <snap-l> Meh, just a lot of undertainty because of budgets and shiti
[18:45] <snap-l> Maybe I'll give it some cycles, but right now I'm not feeling it
[18:46] <brousch> add it to your todo list
[18:46] <snap-l> It's there
[18:57] <rick_h_> man I hate stupid code
[18:57] <rick_h_> "yes please, might I copy/paste this 4 times...thank you!"
[18:59] <TeamXlink> Repitive code = a problem that seems difficult to fix completely and fully, you can minimize it but some things always seem to be to repitive.
[19:00]  * TeamXlink doesn't like reptitive code.
[19:00] <brousch> rick_h_: isn't that what DRY means? Write it correctly once and then copy and paste it?
[19:00] <rick_h_> this is cool forking and adding/fixing stuff to other code
[19:01] <rick_h_> but man, it $#@$@ your head shifting code methods/dealing with crap you don't want to just rewrite since it's not yours
[19:46] <snap-l> Hey, devinheitmueller, would you be able to pick me up tomorrow for CHC?
[19:46] <devinheitmueller> snap-l: sure, np
[19:46] <snap-l> Thank you, good sir.
[19:52] <brousch> snap-l: the ubuntu calendar says tomorrow's irc meeting is at 6am
[19:52] <brousch> i am unlikely to attend that
[19:52] <snap-l> Yes, and I thought I fixed that
[19:53] <gamerchick02> 6 am? wow, that's quite early unless you're planning on meeting BEFORE work. (I'm full of it today, don't mind me)
[19:53] <brousch> ok
[19:53] <snap-l> Says it's 14:00UTC on the site
[19:53] <gamerchick02> must be the taco bell
[19:53] <snap-l> http://loco.ubuntu.com/meetings/ubuntu-michigan/81/detail/
[19:53] <brousch> gcal will refresh it some day
[22:17] <rick_h_> greg-g: specialized bikes?
[22:17] <rick_h_> local places sells them and pushing a crosstrail from them
[22:17] <rick_h_> better for dirt roads vs trek they're saying, slightly bigger tire, still much smaller than my mountain
[22:18] <rick_h_> rode nice, but any bike < 15yrs old will feel nice to me
[22:38] <greg-g> and I think you just summed it all up nicely there
[22:38] <greg-g> style is your main concern
[22:40] <rick_h_> greg-g: ok cool, so no auto lemon alert on the brand then?
[22:40] <rick_h_> I've not looked at bikes in so long, never heard of specialized
[22:47] <greg-g> they're fine
[23:11] <rick_h_> what's greg-g ride?
[23:12] <rick_h_> you've got a full street bike right?
[23:15] <greg-g> rick_h_: I ride a Lemond Zurich (a decent road bike)
[23:16] <rick_h_> cool